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Firefox Browser On An Upward Trend

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the expected-but-still-nice dept.

Mozilla 670

carbolic writes "The Firefox browser is ramping up as fast as Internet Explorer is ramping down. According to these stats posted from the Engadget logfiles, IE has dropped to 57% of all browsers used to visit the site, while Firefox is up to an amazing 18%! The Engadget stats reflect an early-adopter consumer crowd and backing those up, this chart from w3schools shows the same trend. I guess CERT's recommendation and a mature product are finally paying off for the Mozilla project. Less than 2 years ago, IE had a 95% lock on the market. Anyone else see a trend here?"

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HOLY SHIT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254769)

amazing. now pass the grits.

Hmmmm (3, Insightful)

squall14716 (734306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254771)

95% to 57% on one site? Trend? Where?

Re:Hmmmm (2, Informative)

lbolla (714031) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254805)

this trend! http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.a sp

self fullfilling prophecy (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254896)

The problem is, Firefox people will go read the site, there by pushing the points up more.

Most IE users (that I know) are pretty much ignorant when it comes to browsers.

Re:Hmmmm (4, Interesting)

DrXym (126579) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254914)

Yes, but now try the same with a mainstream site. The figure is still most likely 90% IE and 10% Mozilla, Firefox, Safari + others.


What I find funny are those sites that throw you off if you don't have IE - often when the site works fine using a faked user agent. They must have a lot of money to burn if they can turn away 10% of their revenue just for the sake of fixing a few (or no) broken pages.

Re:Hmmmm (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254927)

I also run one site, but mine isn't geared towards techheads. (Blood conservation for hospital staff.) Here's this months stats so far:

MSIE 6.0: 86%
MSIE 5.5: 3%
MSIE 5.23: 1.2%
MSIE 5.01: 0.9%
MSIE 5.0: 1.8%
Netscape 7.2: 0.7%
Netscape 7.1: 0.7%
Mozilla: 2.5%
Opera: 2%
Unknown: 0.3%
Konqueror: 0.1%
(Missing: 0.8%)

I'm waiting for Mozilla to grow. Then again, my site still uses frames, so why am I complaining?

Sum of IE Dropped ~2% since previous months where it hovered around 94.7%+-0.3. Mozilla numbers remain unchanged from previous months; Opera took the space it seems. Oh well.

US, Germany, The WORLD! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254772)

woo hoo! first post.

Firefox desserves this... (3, Informative)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254776)

It's just a pity that 1.0PR (as announced yesterday) doesn't seem to like all the add-ons and themes it liked so much until 0.9

Re:Firefox desserves this... (4, Insightful)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254802)

But you have to give the developers time to update their extensions/themes for the new release. Yesterday, the only one of mine that worked was AdBlock (the best one) and then today there was already an update for FoxyTunes - so the work is getting done, you just have to be patient. :)

Re:Firefox desserves this... (-1, Redundant)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254838)

Actually much as I like Firefox I think there is something very very wrong if after 5 years of development extensions and themes require modifications to work with changes between point releases.

Re:Firefox desserves this... (2, Interesting)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254860)

While I agree with what you're saying, neither you nor I, nor the extension developers can help the changes that are made by the Firefox developers. So they just have to adapt. As someone else here mentioned, you can disable the "don't use obsolete extensions" thing which will just force all of your extensions to work anyways. But I'd just assume wait until they're actually updated and are KNOWN to work.

Re:Firefox desserves this... (4, Insightful)

biglig2 (89374) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254912)

Ah, but be fair, it's not at 1.0 quite yet.

Workaround (5, Informative)

Compact Dick (518888) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254819)

Most 0.9+ plugins should work with 1.0PR. Go to about:config [about] , locate extensions.disabledObsolete and change its value to false . Worked for me, YMMV. Good luck.

-- CD

Re:Workaround (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254856)

Noia 2.0 [mozilla.org] still doesn't work and I have an ugly default theme :(

The proxy support, however, as improved a lot :)

Re:Workaround (3, Funny)

Compact Dick (518888) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254886)

That's not surprising, considering the theme was released on, and I quote the page [mozilla.org] , "Released on December 31, 1969".

Seriously though -- a port should be in the works. Hang on till then :-)

-- CD

Re:Firefox desserves this... (1)

borum (87229) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254877)

I just updated to 1.0 PR and Firefox refused to start - would just hog the cpu until I killed the process.
This was using XP.
I uninstalled 500MB of Java SDK and restarted. Now it works (except for the extension problems mentioned elsewhere).

Why can't firefox work with Sun Java? Or rather, why could 0.9.3 but not 1.0PR?

This could be the start of a reverse trend - MS needs it ;)

Re:Firefox desserves this... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254882)

when I updated to 1.0PR firefox told me it couldn't find compatible versions for some extensions. After I added the homepages of the not working extensions to my trusted sites, I could install current versions of those extensions, and they work.

As much as I'd like this to be true... (5, Insightful)

psyklopz (412711) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254777)

The logfiles for a single site can hardly be used as proof of an overall trend throughout the Internet.

Microsoft's site can probably claim higher numbers of IE users.

RedHat's site can probably claim lower numbers of IE users

Re:As much as I'd like this to be true... (1)

TarlCabbot (778401) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254809)

Exactly. How many times a month will this story come out?

"Engadget shows 57% non-IE users, therefore, that's 57% of all users of the internet."

Not a good basis for plotting a trend, IMHO.

Re:As much as I'd like this to be true... (5, Insightful)

bonniot (633930) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254828)

Obviously different websites have different audiences, so the raw numbers have little significance unless you take a large sample of websites. However, it's the trend [mozillazine.org] that is important here, and it seems to be consistently positive for gecko on various websites.

Re:As much as I'd like this to be true... (5, Funny)

jkrise (535370) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254921)

I think many IE users are setting their browsers to the "Behave like Firefox" option!

-

Re:As much as I'd like this to be true... (1)

streamscape (777473) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254830)

It's a bit like looking at /.'s log files and trying to call that a 'trend'. As you say, depends entirely on user base. What are /. stats out of interest?

Re:As much as I'd like this to be true... (1)

eofpi (743493) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254893)

Engadget's readerbase isn't all that different from slashdot's, or, for that matter, the little corner of the internet that I work on. Seeing IE just barely having majority on any of those (or any of the myriad sites with similar readerbases/userbases) is neither surprising nor particularly indicative of what Joe Sixpack or Aunt Tillie are using to surf with (IE, almost invariably).

When it is clear that we have won will be when we start seeing statistics like these from sites like cnn.com or weather.com.

Not more people (5, Interesting)

joeldixon66 (808412) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254778)

I have used Firefox for about 6 months, since it was recommended to me by a friend. I've enjoyed the useful features I never got from IE, the speed of page loads and the fact that whenever a new IE venerability is released I can simply say "Meh".

But am I alone in the (admittedly selfish) desire that Firefox / Mozilla doesn't become too mainstream? As the usage of Firefox goes up - so too does the interest from exploit kiddies. Can the Mozilla / Firefox team keep ahead of the net nasties when it attains the majority of Internet users?

I can see that an open source browser can respond to security threats quicker than Microsoft has - but will it remain quick enough?

Re:Not more people (0, Offtopic)

lbolla (714031) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254843)

I've started using Firefox few months ago. I found it really cool. Then I learnt w3m. I've never used Firefox, anymore. go, text browsers! go!

Re:Not more people (5, Insightful)

Rysc (136391) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254850)

Yes. Look at recent changelogs: They're patching /potential/ vulnerabilities and removing ambiguities to make it harder to annoy/confuse people. They're doing this BEFORE it becomes a big problem. Microsoft may know the potential exists, but they wait until their entire user base is up in arms before releasing an update. The Firefox folks notice the potential and head it off. Because of the whole "there are daily builds" thing, likely you'll see patches merged for any serious exploit within a few days, ready for enterprising people to download. And if you don't think average people go for nigthlies: at least with Firefox official releases are damned frequent, not once every six to eighteen months, as with IE.

Re:Not more people (5, Insightful)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254852)

It's obiviously a challenge, but considering that most IE vulnerabilities are linked to the tight coupling of OS and browser (and the stupid ActiveX), Firefox offers fewer points of attack for the l33t hax0rs to poke holes at. Yes, there will be vulnerabilities, but I expect a lot fewer than with MS products.

All Mozilla/Firefox now needs is a good update system. Normal users have already been teached by MS that everything magically gets updated via Windows Update. Not so with the browser - if they use something other than IE.

Yes, advanced users hate autoupdates. So what, they can always be disabled. Firefox and Mozilla need builtin autoupdaters that at least point the user to a page when a new update is available. Or preferrably just go ahead and do the update by default. That way people can browse safely even as new exploits crop up.

Re:Not more people (1)

gregduffy (766013) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254910)

Uh oh. The Beast [www.iol.ie] has alsoinvaded the OSS world!

The goggles, they do nothing!

Re:Not more people (4, Interesting)

wtmcgee (113309) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254868)

i'm a mac user, so i'm not too familiar with windows and IE. however, i am under the impression that the problem with IE is mainly the fact that it is so tightly integrated with windows, that a lot of the holes in IE are made much more serious because of said integration. a fairly pedestrian exploit can actually cause a lot more damage.

is this correct, or just heresy?

Re:Not more people (1)

pommaq (527441) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254873)

Well, I certainly HOPE you're alone in that desire. My bank, for instance, locks you to an IE-only security solution (well, it does work with Netscape 4.7 as well, but that's not even a browser in my eyes) and there are plenty of sites with crap CSS layouts and javascript errors due to IE's lazy rendering. Don't even get me started on the PNG support. These problems will pretty much go away overnight if Moz takes off for real.

Also, The more popular Firefox becomes, the more people will want to contribute and fixes will come faster. The Internet has absolutely nothing to lose by Mozilla browsers gaining market share. If nothing else it'll spur competition a little, make Microsoft realize that their browser just ain't good enough.

Funny.. (1)

sinner0423 (687266) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254784)

I decided to check out Mozilla for the first time in quite some while.. I'm sitting here playing with font settings, not even 5 minutes in to the browser, and this story is listed.

Someone is trying to tell me something.

Re:Funny.. (1)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254821)

Someone is trying to tell me something.

Psst... *whisper* Use Firefox. You'll like it. *whisper*

Engadget? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254786)

Great choice of site to sample all browsers. (not)

Botched statistic if I've ever seen it. (-1, Redundant)

gregduffy (766013) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254789)

Ever hear of choosing a statistically significant sample?

Let's see ... a site about gadgets might have visitors of a "nerdy" persuasion. What browser do you think they use?!

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love it if it were really true ...

Re:Botched statistic if I've ever seen it. (-1, Offtopic)

gregduffy (766013) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254825)

Oh wait, it's timothy. Move along, nothing to see here.

Re:Botched statistic if I've ever seen it. (4, Informative)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254883)

From the top:

The Engadget stats reflect an early-adopter consumer crowd and backing those up, this chart from w3schools shows the same trend

He never claimed that the stats were for the entire net or anything. -1 Redundant.

Re:Botched statistic if I've ever seen it. (1)

gregduffy (766013) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254928)

The whole point is that this is not an "early-adopter consumer crowd".

This is a crowd of developers/nerds/etc. who will probably patch and be smart enough to avoid most trouble on the 'net even with IE.

I know it gets brought up a lot, but what about the grandmothers, teenyboppers, etc.? They are the ones that need the extra safety net of Firefox.

Re:Botched statistic if I've ever seen it. (3, Informative)

JanneM (7445) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254925)

As others have been pointing out, it's the trend that is interesting, not the raw numbers. And when you see the same trend happening on a number of different sites - with very different starting proportions, and thus likely pretty different readership - then it seems fairly likely that the trend is real.

Not so significant (-1, Redundant)

nsebban (513339) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254791)

These are statistics taken from a site with a tech-oriented audience. Which is not significant.

Big portals stats would be, though.

OSX pdf creation from firefox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254792)

Anyone with OS X try making a pdf from firefox? This bug has been there since the start... It will only make a pdf of one page... when the html source may be any number of pages.
Still, nice browser.

Re:OSX pdf creation from firefox - ZERO (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254859)

This is neither informative, nor interesting.

annoyances (-1, Offtopic)

preposterity (756361) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254794)

Firefox is a good browser, but does anyone know how to turn off those little pop-over messages, such as the "you don't have this plugin installed, click here to download it". I do not need flash or java, and I don't want the message.

Also, is there a way to move the gold lock (for secure sites) from the address bar down to the status bar like before?

Another thing that would be nice is if they returned the cool background graphic in the download manager.

Other than that, the base browser is excellent.

Re:annoyances (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254817)

Remove libnullplugin.so from your plugins directory to get rid of those popups.

Re:annoyances (1)

loubrush (588838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254818)

I think it would also be good if the download manager could resume a download. ITs quite annoying when you have to start downloads again from the beginning if the file was too big to get in one session. Unless I'm missing something...

Re:annoyances (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254853)

What i miss is a feature named "render this page faulty just like IE", since the css-implementation of ie is incorrent, and many sites depend on this wrong implementation.

Re:annoyances (1)

unapersson (38207) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254903)

'Firefox is a good browser, but does anyone know how to turn off those little pop-over messages, such as the "you don't have this plugin installed, click here to download it". I do not need flash or java, and I don't want the message.'

Just delete the npnul{whatever}.[so|dll] plugin from the plugins directory.

new firefox? (1)

unknown51a (741797) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254796)

I want a new camino.

C'mon (3, Insightful)

indros13 (531405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254797)

By the same logica, if a Slashdot poll showed 33% of respondents used Linux, you could claim that Linux is seriously threatening Windows (and that the CowboyNeal OS has 10% market share). It's a self-selecting crowd. When a techie website shows high Firefox use, it's because techies are more likely to try alternatives--we actually know of them.

I'm waiting for the CNN/Gallup Poll

Hardly suprising (-1, Redundant)

peterprior (319967) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254798)

With less bugs, more features, a simpler installation routine, a smaller download, lots of features people want in IE [msdn.com] already implemented as well as plenty of positive press coverage, its hardly suprising people are starting to use it more and more.

Add to that the recent spate of security holes in IE, and I would expect usage to grow even more when 1.0 is released.

Re:Hardly suprising (1)

loubrush (588838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254844)

Something that might prevent people ditching IE is problems with dependancies on M$ dll's. When I installed Firefox on my mothers computer, I couldn't run it until I had upgraded to IE 6 as it claimed that there was a dll missing. This was on Win 98.

the real reason (-1)

Moonlapse (802617) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254799)

Why watch a spinny 'e' when you can have a cute lil fox?

I see a trend! I see one! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254800)

Anyone else see a trend here?

I see a trend in which people submitting slashdot items use skewed data with no disclaimers. The numbers you present have no relation to the installation or user base of the browsers -- they are obviously from an extremely "techy" site and represent its highly specific target audience. The real numbers from general sites have Firefox climbing, sure, but still well within the single digits. And IE (all versions) is still over 80%.

Re:I see a trend! I see one! (4, Interesting)

bonniot (633930) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254857)

people submitting slashdot items use skewed data with no disclaimers
You mean you would have like to see "The Engadget stats reflect an early-adopter consumer crowd", for instance?

It's no surprise. (2, Interesting)

drunkennewfiemidget (712572) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254801)

Especially now that even people at Microsoft are switching to Firefox, and IE has officially stopped supporting IE, it was bound to happen. You'll know, however, that firefox is really mainstream, when viruses, autodialers, and porn sites start popping up requests to install XPIs.

Re:It's no surprise. (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254922)

This is already happening (unless you disable XPI installs or use 1.0PR, which allows only mozilla.org to install extensions).

When all that walware crap will install automatically, THEN you know FF has gotten some attention from the kiddies (hopefully there aren't any vuln's that could cause that) =)

I'm surprised it took so long. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254804)

It's realy amazing how long people can procrastinate on switching over from IE, as an example I switched to firefox 0.93 after hemming and hawing for a couple of months. People just need to take the plunge and if they feel the way I do about firefox they'll never look back.

I don't know about you (1)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254806)

But I am using FireFox a lot more!

Actually, having used Mozilla a lot, the smaller size of FireFox has meant its adoption is easier. I have personally installed it:

At my dentists (removed two viruses, put zonealarm, slapped ie silly, put firefox, adaware, windows updates to auto (well, you can't be perfect!)

At all my friends, work mates

so I guess I am nearly 100% responsible for these stats :-)

It will become the top browser, because it is ace. All those cute extensions.

Why else?

Microsoft state no more development on IE

No more upgrade runs for people, and they always look for now things.

It is snazzy amd sexy, and has a cute fox, so animal rights activitsts will like it, unless they think the firey tale is cruel...

the only problem is the 0.9, 0.9.1, 0.9.2, 0.9.3 - even I got tired, but I bet they just want to get the bets stuff out the door as quickly as possible.

Don't worry, the net ain't going anywhere fast. How many converts have you claimed? :-)

Re:I don't know about you (4, Informative)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254847)

It is snazzy amd sexy, and has a cute fox

Actually, it's not even really a "fox" ... it's a red panda: linky [bbc.co.uk] . Still, a very cool animal.

Re:I don't know about you (1)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254911)

OK, where does it say that firefox mascot dude is a red panda though?

Cute lil' fella. (him not you...)

Woah, hold the presses, since when did firefox have RSS support? I was just fffin around on the thunderbird site sniffing for it...

Mention of FireFox RSS [oreillynet.com]

IE and FF (3, Insightful)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254917)

>Microsoft state no more development on IE

Actually IE on an XP box running SP2 is pretty different. This may not be a formal version change but MS did catch up pretty well. Sure, I don't touch IE unless I have to, but the popup blocker, activex manager, extra nag screens, etc go a long way to fighting spyware and help make the web usable. Most people will never switch browsers and SP2 is for them.

I was playing with 1.0PR last night and found the firebird developers have already mimicked IE. The "info bar" [everythingisnt.com] which displays when something is blocked is blatantly "stolen" from IE. Not that I care or even think its wrong, but its interesting to see the browser war heat up again.

MS is catching up to FF while FF is picking what it likes from IE. I do like FF's policy of "looking a lot like IE" because it helps with mass-adoptation and frankly IE's interface and MS's usability are actually pretty good. Its a shame the code beneath isn't so hot.

It won me over.. (2, Interesting)

starvo (33598) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254807)

Now that the Spell Checker for Firefox is almost as good as IeSpell is for IE (http://www.iespell.com) I've finally switched over to Firefox. And it's become my replacement on my primary Windows PC.

Ah, but this isn't (e.g.) visitors to AOL.com... (3, Insightful)

darien (180561) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254810)

As the article says, this is a survey of "as tech savvy an audience as you could have." While it's exciting to see tech savvy people getting more and more switched-on to Firefox, we could flip it around and say that more than half of even the most tech-savvy users are still using IE. And with the SP2 pop-up blocker and security improvements they have fewer reasons to change than ever.

Just thinking obvious thoughts out loud.

Translations (1)

emiste (632322) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254811)

In my opinion, there's an urgent need for translations of the Mozilla applications suites. That would make the success even greater, as many people in non-english speaking countries feel discouraged to use software in a foreign language.

Re:Translations (1)

emiste (632322) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254835)

I am sorry, my mistake, if I had RTFA I would have noticed that it actually is very well translated:
From Afrikaans to Zulu, Mozilla has been translated to over 50 languages since the release of Mozilla 1.0 and offers the most extensive international features.

Re:Translations (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254899)

This if for firefox alone but i know there is lots of translations for the rest of the parts in the project. http://www.mozilla.org/projects/l10n/mlp_otherproj .html#firefox [mozilla.org] I agree with your point that translations are great.. Helped me convert some of my swedish friends for sure.

Ok let's hear it from..... (2, Interesting)

mAineAc (580334) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254812)

The Microsoft lackeys how this isn't a real website this can't be real, just like the last time. I know I tell people all the time when they call, I work tech support for an ISP, how the reason for their pop-up and spyware and other assorted problems is because of security problems with IE. I am just one person so I doubt that I would have much of an impact, but I bet there are a lot of tech support reps out there doing the same thing because they are getting tired of all the calls.

Re:Ok let's hear it from..... (5, Interesting)

Hockney Twang (769594) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254895)

If it wasn't for IE, a quarter of all tech. support reps would be out of a job.

Ok, not really, but I do work in tech. support, and spend a significant portion of my day dealing with IE-related issues. If a normal rep spends an average of 1 hour each day on IE issues alone, and there are 250 reps at the center I work at, then we're spending 250 hours a day on IE problems. If no one dealt with IE issues, we could shift the workload and fire 30 people! that works out closer to an eighth, but saying "1/8" isn't impressive enough these days.

Do your bit! (1)

beeglebug (767468) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254813)

Convert an IE user today!

nice.. (2, Interesting)

techefnet (634210) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254814)

Its nice to see that IE gets some good competition. And when people stop using IE more and more it would force websites to think more about standards and such..

I've converted both my parents to FireFox. (1)

SoupIsGoodFood_42 (521389) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254816)

I did it for security reasons. They both like it, and I've had no "site blah won't work now" problems.

Next step: Convert them to Mac. This may be a bit more difficult ;)

Re:I've converted both my friends to FireFox. (1)

Lispy (136512) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254845)

I did it for security reasons. They both like it, and I've had no "site blah won't work now" problems.

I never get to meet them now, though. ;-/

IE-only sites? sorry! (5, Interesting)

derekb (262726) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254823)

I'm finding myself quickly leaving sites that are built, either intentionally or out of ignorance, as IE-only.

With tabbed browsing, fantastic bookmark controls (add bookmark here and synchronized bookmarks), great content tools (bugmenot, adblock), the browser goes almost everywhere.

Folks who are reading this and who made the plunge, but still use Outlook, SWITCH TO THUNDERBIRD! While I wasn't very happy with the seemingly random way my old emails were imported (messages with multiple mime parts dont have the correct items displayed on the pane, and others meant to be displayed as shown as 'part1.1' attachments), I was incredibly happy with the abilities and extensions of the program.

Specifically, I found Thunderbird [mozilla.org] very happy to deal with my POP3 and IMAP accounts, interface very easily with GnuPG [gnupg.org] (via Enigmail [mozdev.org] )

Mozilla really sucked for quite awhile, but these days I'm surprised when I find people who still only use IE. How 2001.

I look forward to the work being done on calendaring.

Message to IE, courtesy of Firefox (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254826)

IM IN UR BASE!!!1 KILLIGN ALL UR d000dzz!!!!!!11111one

Worthless statistics. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254829)

My site has about 50,000 registered members and many more who are not registered. These are your average internet users. The type who come through AOL, Cable, etc. Most are not computer geeks and are lucky to know how to crop a photo in photoshop.

Of these people - which is the most significant portion of the internet overall - about 94% are still coming through using MSIE.

So the idea that MSIE use has reduced to only 57% is silly and just plain wrong.

I have another question: Is it really important? (1)

alexeymas (610571) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254833)

Is it really important for internet community what of the browser is more powerfull? The time has run out... IE to bring in a fashion his ugly standard's and kill the original Netscape. ... paying with a hangover for the feasting of others ...

None techie site - more representative (5, Informative)

barcodez (580516) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254834)

Here are some stats from a none techie site which gets a reasonable amount of traffic:
MSIE 89.7%
FireFox 3.1%
Mozilla 2.2%
Netscape 2.2%
Opera 0.9%
Safari 0.9%
Unknown 0.4%
Firebird 0%
Konqueror 0%
Others 0.1%
Also more interestingly Firefox usage has for the last 4-5 months doubled month on month.

Yes, but not as high on my site (1)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254839)

My site gets about 16000 unique visitors a month (1.4 million hits), and so far in September the stats look like this:
IE: 77.5%
Firefox: 8.9%
Opera: 3.5%
Safari: 2.6%
Mozilla: 2.2%
Netscape: 1.2%

The trend is there though, I think IE used to be in the 90's. It's just a really slow trend. I'm glad to see old Netscape almost non-existant. :) These numbers are from awstats which uses total number of hits for this (660K), not visitors.

Adobe Acrobat 6.0 (1)

October_30th (531777) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254840)

Looks like Adobe Acrobat 6.0 (not the reader) still doesn't work with the Firefox - even after all Adobe upgrades and switching fast view and show-in-browser options off.

I wonder why Mozilla and Acrobat co-operate just fine?

Re:Adobe Acrobat 6.0 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254919)

....works for me! Don't forget to copy nppdf32.dll from the acrobat program directory to the plugins directory of firefox. Restart then firefox. Should work without troubles.

Take into account (2, Interesting)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254841)

these stats are for one site that claims to be 'tech heavy'

Internet Explorer 6.x 53%
Firefox 18.16%
Safari 11.25%
Internet Explorer 5.x 4.07%
Mozilla 3.18%
Opera 2.50%
Netscape 7.x 1.42%

In addition opera and mozilla and firefox have user agent string plugins, but even ie can be regedited to send

Mozilla compatible, sod Microsoft (Windows 3.11)

Of course, stats don't matter, as long as you use what you want. Out of interest,I noticed Yoper is using evolution as the mail client, I personally love thunderbird - any ditros thinking of using thunderbird and sunbird as thier mail/calender?

should it be thunderfox and sunfox?

Slashdot Stats? (5, Interesting)

Psychic Burrito (611532) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254842)

How about if Slashdot would open up their logfiles? Same crowd, but bigger sample...

Joining the crowd (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254846)

I'm a safari user but those firefox users need our help to quash IE usage, I shall defrain from using Safari again, I shall help my unixy brothers in order to fudge those numbers some more.

No trend (2, Insightful)

doktorstop (725614) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254855)

FireFox is a fantastic product, no doubts about that. But I would really doubt that logs from one site can be used as an argument for an overall trend. The Microsoft website probably has 95-98% of all the hits generated by IE. RedHat, SuSE and Slashdot would have a bigger share of Konqueror, FireFox and Netscape users.... even Lynx =)

There is no point to generalise the results of one log... plus keep in mind that more and more browsers nowadays can "lie" about their identity... just say that FireFox is worth a try, and don't push it any further!

I made the change last month. Here's why. (1)

SledgeHBK (148480) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254861)

Adblocking.

Simple as that.

What about browser spoofing? (5, Interesting)

smacktits (737334) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254865)

I would be interested to know how many of those numbers are made up by Mozilla/Opera users whose browsers are set to identify as IE, which is the default on Opera.

I am not sure about Firefox as I don't use it.

Probably the numbers would not swing the percentages to any great degree, but it would still be interesting nevertheless.

Sure, its just a few sites but... (1)

fjutt (211607) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254871)

... you cant deny that firefox is on a rise.

What we might see here is a the bigging of some change. Sure, firefox right now is maybe at 5% at some sites, at 10% on others and here on /. its maybe even at 40%. What is interesting is the change we see. Firefox is being more and more used by more and more people.

For me its a big big deal. It means it is harder and harder to make sites that only work well in IE. Since I cant use IE this is a great thing for me since it makes it much nicer for me to surf the net.

World dominance is of no importance. What I want is to have a firefox that is so big that the people making homepages make sure they work in them. And to me it looks like we are getting there... Quicker than I expected.

Common plugins built in ? (2, Interesting)

Anderson Fortaleza (589352) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254872)

People should use sites like google to generate this kind of statistics, since everybody uses google today.

Probably some of the features that make the IE insecure is what make it popular.

How anoying it is to install Firefox, browse to a flash website and realize that you have to go to the Macromedia site, download and install the plugin and only after that you can see flash files...

Wouldn't it be great if the most common plugins on the web would come with Firefox already ? I don't see any problem with that, maybe the browsology of 'light browser' is being taken too far...

Re:Common plugins built in ? (1)

OklaKid (552472) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254930)

i hate flash, 99% of the time it is used for advertising, i also hate animated graphics too... if advertisers want to display adds on my puter they will have to use still images...

How about some less self-selecting data. (3, Insightful)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254879)

Such as this, [google.com] gathered by general purpose search engine, Google, in June. Specifically, this graph. [google.com] That "Other" category is not exactly setting the world on fire, is it now?

we issue this all the time (2, Interesting)

marine_recon (652565) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254888)

I work as a Tech at a rather large highschool, and starting this year we have preloaded Firefox on all new issued laptops. every year I have worked here the vast majority of problems we deal with are spyware or virus based. (duh) and i have to say, now that we have switched, the total number of spyware related problems we have to deal with has dropped to half a dozen people a week (as compared to 10-20 a day)
anyway, just my $0.02

I'll switch from Firefox back to Maxthon (MYIE2) (1)

Dr.Opveter (806649) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254890)

It uses IE right now but hopefully gecko will be supported soon and i'll drop Firefox instantly. Maxthon has many of the features Firebird has and you don't need to install a bunch of extensions. Also i don't like the Firefox about:config thingie, there's some pretty general stuff in there that shouldn't be 'advanced' options.
In my opinion Firefox can still make stuff somewhat more user friendly. My mom's no computer person and she wouldn't know how to make links all open in new tabs instead of windows and such...

Slashdot hits a new low with this one.. (1, Insightful)

guacamole (24270) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254894)

This article is an example of sensassionalist reporting. Sorry but this is not a true random sample. Their sample was apparently restricted to the visitors of some tech-savy web site which, by the way, I have never heard about before. So the article title is _very_ misleading. I am sure you can also obtain a staggering numbers showing that Firefox and Linux usage is on rise by examining access logs for something like sourceforge.net. I don't see any trend here at all.

My site stats (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254897)

Personal site, geek/gamer, all 2004 January ------- MS Internet Explorer No 9349 83.6 % Mozilla No 1027 9.1 % Firebird No 319 2.8 % Opera No 225 2 % Netscape No 112 1 % Unknown ? 31 0.2 % Sony/Ericsson Browser (PDA/Phone browser) No 19 0.1 % Microsoft Mobile Explorer (PDA/Phone browser) No 16 0.1 % W3C HTML Validator No 16 0.1 % W3C CSS Validator No 16 0.1 % Others April ----- MS Internet Explorer No 6479 83.1 % Mozilla No 950 12.1 % Unknown ? 139 1.7 % Opera No 80 1 % Safari No 46 0.5 % Netscape No 32 0.4 % Firebird No 26 0.3 % Konqueror No 23 0.2 % W3C HTML Validator No 8 0.1 % August ------ MS Internet Explorer No 7421 71.3 % Mozilla No 1566 15 % Unknown ? 1130 10.8 % Opera No 146 1.4 % Safari No 69 0.6 % Konqueror No 40 0.3 % ... I see a trend too ;D

nothing like what I see (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254901)

The combined stats for the web sites I run for the year to date look like this (Mozilla includes anything built on Gecko):
89.17% IE
8.02% Mozilla
2.67% Opera
(the rest is Safari, Web TV etc.)

This time last year the figures were:
94.66% IE
1.58% Mozilla
3.68% Opera

So Mozilla is certainly on the up, but the trend is not that dramatic. I suspect the reason for this is that almost every company is running IE (in other words I suspect a lot of home users have made the switch at home).

So What? (2, Interesting)

rudy_wayne (414635) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254902)

Seriously. So what?

I'm a long time Mozilla user, but this is a silly non-issue.

If everyone in the world abandons IE for a different browser, the loss in revenue for Microsoft is exactly ZERO. Which explains why IE hasn't been updated/improved for years, because, if everyone in the world abandoned Mozilla, Opera, etc and switched to IE, the increase in revenue for Microsoft would be exactly ZERO.

Yes ... but... (1)

drmancini (712059) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254909)

Of course there is a trend. Compared to IE, Firefox is undoubtebly a superior product. And thanks to OSS supporters even regular out-of-the-box windows users are converting to Firefox ...

But I don't think that unless we see a clear browser usage statistic created from a wide spectrum of high profile websites from diffrent fields (with various interest target groups) there's no way we can compare these numbers to the mentioned (and hopefully irrelevant) 95% market share of IE...

Firefox usage goes up, slashdot errors rise (2, Interesting)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254916)

I'm getting more and more convinced that Slashdots recent problems are caused by the rise in firefox.

because of the pages not being rendered correctly, people are refereshing their screens "twice or three times" and considering how slash is certainly not static, it can cause massive problems.

I know lots of people now use the font sizing thing, but its still a definate problem.

Does 1.0 fix this?

A growing trend? (3, Insightful)

drspliff (652992) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254923)

Although Firefox is gaining popularity the fact is: IE 6 is the #1 browser. Until we (a combination of the open source community, and regular users) can pursuade a lot of ignorant web developers (dont get me wrong, not all web developers are stupid and ignorant, just a small minority that only design for IE) - then the web can still be a hostile environment for non-microsoft users.

<rant> Personally I've been an Opera user for a few years (but reguarly use Mozilla/Firefox, Netscape 4 & IE to check the compatibility of my sites), and I was shocked when I went to a site that said 'You have to download the latest version of IE to view this site'... Sure.. I can run IE in wine, but some people really don't think when developing sites. </rant>

The statistic IS significant. (1)

kahei (466208) | more than 9 years ago | (#10254932)


It's not the overall level of FF users that matters -- that's going to be high on a site like Engadget, low elsewhere. It's the fact that it has increased that matters.

Subjectively, I'm seeing a lot more FF windows around the office than I used to -- which is a pity as I still don't have a clue how to make my Japanese translation plugin work in Mozilla.

about the article... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10254933)

thoughts?!
Engadget brower stats


Yeah!
How about a spell checker!
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