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Longhorn's Copy Protection Standard

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the makin'-copies dept.

Windows 558

hype7 writes "The Register is reporting that Microsoft have attempted to force a last-minute CD protection standard on the recording industry in order to ship it in Longhorn. From the article: "Any such deal would see Microsoft support 'an industry-wide copy control platform' built in to its next-generation Longhorn operating system, with the computer giant instructing labels that the compatible secure CDs must contain additional multimedia content, such as bonus tracks, 'as a quid pro quo for adding effective [DRM] into the consumer experience'". It looks like everyone except the consumer is going to win on this one - Microsoft controls the secure format, the RIAA gets a secure format, and the consumer loses all their rights for the "quid pro quo" of a bonus track."

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Other Initiatives... (5, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269137)

The letter, dated 2 September 2004, says that Microsoft's offer came "literally in the last few days" but requires that labels across the entire industry agree upon a specification for the functionality of the protected discs by 20 September.

In other news, Microsoft to offer computer training packages on Herding Cats.

Seems there was something within the last month where Microsoft's Windows Media advances on big media content were spurned.

"We're calling together a representative coalition of the industry to plan a possible meeting to discuss whether further consideration of your offer is necessary. Not that we're worried about you getting a cut of our cut, but we're all insane with greed and want to be sure we don't let anyone dictate our destiny to us in the same way we have for decades to consumers. Now if you'll excuse me I have several new acts to screw, I mean, negotiate standard industry contracts with."

Re:Other Initiatives... (4, Insightful)

the arbiter (696473) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269330)

Hmmm....

1. I have to wait for "Longhorn" to be released
-AND-
2. The record industry has only two weeks to come to agreement on a standard?

Well, this falls under "not in my lifetime", so I guess I don't have much to worry about.

And when I do, well, then it's off to Some Other OS that doesn't feel it needful to be an "enforcer" of some industry association that cares for nothing save the preservation and enhancement of their revenues.

My real objection to DRM and other such horseshit? I'm not a criminal, and I'll not be treated as though at any instant I might become one. I guess that's the most galling part of the whole charade.

No wonder they're dropping all the new features (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269144)

All this crippling of Windows takes a lot of time. Besdies, DRM is much better than WinFS.

I'll gladly... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269147)

give up my rights for a bonus track! NOT!

Fillibuster Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269155)

My fellow LEET HAX0R lol!!1:

In teh last few months, it has become apprent that THIS COUNTRY HAS TO MANY BIG FAT HIPPIE LOSER IDIOT COMNUNITS WHO PRBABLY PLAYS WITH TEH MARIO ALL DAY LONG LOL. THEY R STUPID AND DO NOT SUPPORT ARE TROOPS!

I am SICK and TRIED of all tehse IDIOTS who say taht Bush is wrong. He is teh PRESIDENT, you stupid HIPPIE.... if he were WRONG, he would nt haev been ELECTED! ROFL stupid losers! taest my rath!

Teh other day I got in a argumet with a guy at scool named Sergei Wysnewski who said taht maybe BUSH was not rieght to KICK ASS in IRAQ..... i told him he was stupid hippie peacenik. I think Sergei is maybe IRAQI TERRARITS and just tryeing to covar up his LOVE OF SADAM.... LOL! Tehn I kicked his ass with my MIGHTY VORLPAL SWORD +2!!!!! lol he sux0rz.

LADYS AND gentelmen, we must STOP sadam! In teh last few monhts aloen. Sadam has killed like 1,0000 Iraqis by eating them and there babys. He has also taken ovar Australia and used they're dogs as test sujbects for his toxic GASSESS. He is WORSE tahn HITLER and evan has teh worst MSTUACHE... He has used his vast fortuens to buy FRANCE and make tehm call they're FREEDOM FRIES something DUMB. He supports abortion and once put a WOMEN on teh SUPREME CORT. He built his country ovar ALL OUR OIL, adn we need to taek it back. and my friend Kyle who used to liev in Sadui Arabica says Sadam runs his lawn mower at like 4 in the morning... and taht he once visited teh CANADA with OSAMA! tehy are liek butt buddies oer something...

If u dont liek war, U R DUMB and must be wieped out liek it says in teh Constitiutition. Y do u haet Amercia, si it becuz u r gay?

Dont paye any atttention to teh FRENCH tehy are OWNED by sadam, just liek ALL TEH OTHAR COUNTIES! All teh othar counties SUX0RZ and taht is why i haev nevar left Nebraska evar.

THERFOR i must taek ovar this siet and USE it for greatar good liek buying a big BOM to drop on teh dumb Iraqis, like in teh Battalfield 1924. We wil not try to stop teh war, we will maek it BETTAR INSTEAD..... so we can watch teh KICK-ASS TANKS on teh FOX NWES! We will get RID OF teh idiots who DON'T LIEK BUSH adn send tehm BACK TO ENGLAND!

So GIEV ME MONEY! I need your money for buying TEH BOM to give to teh army guyz and so they can drop it on Bagdad. I wil not taek your money fore a new PC... I promiss! lol unliek teh guy who runs this paeg and prolly took all teh money to spend in hawai, or on Hookers.

Beacuse it would be imppolit to not include som sort of letar with teh bom, I wil write teh following to Sadam:

Dear mister Sadam,
Hello! How r u? Here is teh bom we have saeved up for months or days to buy u,, I hoep it blows up ur hed like teh old man behind teh school said ti will. Good luck dying, you gay MSTASCHE FAG0RT!

Ps do u like to taek it up teh butt?

Enlcosed with this lettar, we haev sent u a BIG ASS BOM to kill u and blow up ur stupid palace. Die liek in teh HOT SHOTS 2! YAH!

Love,

Teh ppl of teh Ameriac

garage bands (5, Insightful)

genner (694963) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269156)

Forget the RIAA, support your local garage band.

Re:garage bands (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269268)

Amen Brother. Offtopic my ass >:(

Clueless Mods (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269351)

The post is out of order? Hell no, the MODERATORS are out of order!

It would be nice if a requirement for moderating was having a clue about the issues around the issue. It's not even my post, but it gets under my skin to see such clueless moderating. When did Slashdot get so dumb?

who cares (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269157)

It's going to be cracked anyways, just more reason to laugh at microsoft

Re:who cares (5, Insightful)

Darkon06 (714661) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269215)

It does matter, encryption works the same way. It isn't unbreakable but hard to do so. It keeps everyone and their brother from doing something or looking at your private e-mail. It keeps out the ones who either are too stupid or whatnot from getting past. There will always be exceptions. *shrug*

Great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269160)

I love being screwed.

Re:Great (4, Funny)

nuclear305 (674185) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269328)

"I love being screwed."

Well, I would hope you do...

Begin "Microsoft/RIAA" is evil comments.... (-1, Redundant)

Stucifer (758266) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269164)

....now.

Who'll be buying CDs... (5, Interesting)

richieb (3277) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269166)

... by the time LongHorn comes out...???

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269200)

Whose buying CDs NOW?!

Its amazing that the dvd for movies sometimes cost less then the cd soundtrack for the same movie.

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... Valid Point! (0)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269221)

... by the time LongHorn comes out...???

A valid point. The death of the CD has been predicted for years, but with growth in music downloads it's a matter of time before physical distribution of music AND movies becomes a relic of history. Of course, DRM bolted onto everything, by Microsoft's design, could rather play havoc with Open Source.

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... (3, Funny)

sgant (178166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269327)

Yes, by the time LongHorn comes out humans will have evolved beyond actually hearing sounds and instead have music telepathically beamed into our brains via a quantum computer net that exists in hyperspace.

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269336)


Well the submission says Microsoft is trying to make a "last-minute" deal, which must mean that Longhorn is due to be released sometime in the next couple months, right?

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... (5, Funny)

Asprin (545477) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269383)


Who'll be buying *Windows* when LongHorn comes out?

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... (3, Funny)

hardlined (785357) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269423)

*buying* is the keyword for most desktop users.

Re:Who'll be buying CDs... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269395)

I will because I'll be reinstalling longhorn...

Real copy protection would be great (5, Insightful)

h00manist (800926) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269167)

Copy protection would be the best gift MS could give to the open-source movement.

95% of all windows boxes must contain 100% pirated software.

Re:Real copy protection would be great (4, Funny)

hrtserpent6 (806666) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269386)

I know mine does!...I mean...I know this guy...er...

Encryption Circumvention Devices? (5, Insightful)

example42 (760044) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269169)

Does this mean that alternate OS's such as Linux and OS X could be consider encryption circumvention devices under the DMCA and upcoming Uber-DMCA's in the USA and around the world? This of course assumes that Microsoft's protection scheme is Windows only. And I think that's a safe bet.

Re:Encryption Circumvention Devices? (3, Insightful)

theparanoidcynic (705438) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269261)

There's a difference between circumvention and simply not supporting the DRM.

If it plays in a CD player it has two channels of 16-bit 44.1KHz PCM audio. You're not circumventing encryption, you're just not listening to the shit that tells you not to rip the unencrypted PCM streams.

Re:Encryption Circumvention Devices? (3, Insightful)

wizatcomputer (798648) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269279)

Fortunatly, some people (including me) will be running an older OS, as I want to be able to listen to music on my computer with out having to comply with every RIAA standard/requirement. If it gets to the point where I have to provide proof-of-purchase in order to listen to a CD, and I can only use RIAA-aporved software to rip my CDs, then it's gone way too far.

Re:Encryption Circumvention Devices? (5, Informative)

crimethinker (721591) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269285)

As long as it can be played on a regular audio CD player, I can still rip it. Of course, that would assume that I buy CD's, which I don't. Not because of P2P, but because, almost without exception, all the stuff the RIAA is pushing is crap. Unlistenable crap. I just rely on my existing collection for music, sometimes picking up CD's directly from bands' websites (fuck you, RIAA, no cut for you) or mp3.com back when it existed. I can't even listen to the radio any more it's such shite.

The copy protection will be defeated, just like any safe can be opened, it's just a matter of time and effort. So let's go ahead and crack their safe, and when we get the huge steel door open, we'll find the safe contains a bright and shiny TURD.

What's the point of preventing people from copying shitty music?

-paul

Re:Encryption Circumvention Devices? (5, Insightful)

smartin (942) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269319)

No it means that other OS's will be locked out of mounting and playing any popular media. This has been M$'s driving goal for a long time. The bottom line will be that you will need a device that contains Microsoft code to mount and play any format that participates in the DRM system. This means all media players and most computers. Microsoft will not license the technology to Linux under the excuse that it is an insecure platform. This will help them lock down both the desktop and embedded markets.

big deal... (2, Insightful)

another misanthrope (688068) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269174)

...why am I not concerned about M$'s SECURITY being cracked in short order?

Re:big deal... (1)

theparanoidcynic (705438) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269334)

Because at Microsoft the engineers responsible for security take orders from marketing?

Re:big deal... (1)

another misanthrope (688068) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269352)

marketing doesn't care about the 1000's of own3d boxen?

Re:big deal... (2, Insightful)

theparanoidcynic (705438) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269398)

Marketing knows full well that the kind of people who get "0wn3d" seldom know it's happened. This demographic will quite happily click on shiny things however.

'Microsoft' 'RIAA' and 'DRM'.. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269179)

.. all mentioned in the same article?
Whoa, let the flamefest commence!

Who cares? (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269185)

From reading Slashdot it looks like the entire world is using Linux with occasional Mac OS here and there. Microsoft will impact that tiny market share it controls, the rest will just rely on realiable and highly compatible Mandrake 10.

Re:Who cares? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269236)

From reading Slashdot it looks like the entire world is using Linux with occasional Mac OS here and there. Microsoft will impact that tiny market share it controls, the rest will just rely on realiable and highly compatible Mandrake 10.

You might be under that impression, but I can bet you that the majority of /. visitors are in actuality Windows users.

Crap (5, Insightful)

grub (11606) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269188)


We imagine Apple won't be willing to play ball on this front.

Likely not, but what if the files are DMR-locked (somehow) to only play with a Longhorn-capable client? Reverse engineering would go against the DMCA likely.

Re:Crap (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269369)

Yes, but with Apple's iTunes, the RIAA can play hardball with them too. Imagine they move their support over to the Microsoft if Apple doesn't comply.

Apple will be assimilated.

Re: We imagine Apple won't be willing to play ball (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269378)

Well, it's certainly more of a short term soluition to the problem of playing this new DRM'd media on Apple machines, but you can always download Windows Media Player for Mac OS X.

Certainly I'd prefer as much as anyone here that this DRM madness will not come to pass, but I'm not nuts either, and it will, but at least you'll still be able to play such files on non-Longhorn based systems, even if it is just Macs...

Just think.. (5, Funny)

malkavian (9512) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269203)

Only one copy protection mechanism to overcome, and then it's time to go back to freely backing up you data again.

Re:Just think.. (5, Funny)

sgant (178166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269271)

Yes, please RIAA...put all of your "secure format" eggs into one basket please. And yes, PLEASE get into bed with Microsoft on this issue. PLEASE!

Please let Microsoft worry about your security concerns!

This will be a great day for music and fans of music everywhere!

Quid Pro Quo (5, Insightful)

Atragon (711454) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269204)

Sure, we also gain a standardized copy protection format which will be tuned not to break things like some existing copy protections *cough* Starforce *cough*.

And...standardization is good, just a single standard to bypass if we want to make backups instead of having to learn how to bypass multiple protections.

Sure, call me a pirate, but when want to play games on my laptop, I don't want to have to tote the CD around, I'd much mount the disc image to a virtual drive so I don't have to tote a breakable CD for every game I might play while traveling.

Re:Quid Pro Quo (1)

EMH_Mark3 (305983) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269320)

A better reason for using crackz0red cds on laptops would be that dvd drives use much more power than HDs.. though most games only use the cd for authentication when starting.

Is this a joke? (5, Insightful)

Captain BooBoo (614996) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269210)

If they can't secure the code on the CD what makes you think they can secure the CD?

Ok... (5, Interesting)

El_Ge_Ex (218107) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269211)

Why do customers want to upgrade to Longhorn? I seem to keep losing reasons, or never had them in some cases.

-b

Re:Ok... (5, Insightful)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269301)

They won't! Nobody upgrades! They buy a new computer and it's already installed.

Re:Ok... (2, Funny)

sgant (178166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269304)

Cause it'll have cool shiney icons and menus that go "swooosshhh"!

Re:Ok... (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269335)

Why do customers want to upgrade to Longhorn? I seem to keep losing reasons, or never had them in some cases.

Because they like to run beta software???

Perhaps a better question is why would they like to run it? And the answer to that question is quite simple; they need a reason to upgrade their hardware besides Doom 3 :)

Re:Ok... (4, Insightful)

jgabby (158126) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269359)

It'll probably be pushed as a Critical Update to Windows XP/2000, so even if you don't upgrade to Longhorn, I'm sure you'll get it.

Boringhorn (3, Interesting)

slashpot (11017) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269217)

...and how is this going to stop me from jacking the sound out to the sound in on my sound card, recording a wav file, then compressing it to mp3?

Re:Boringhorn (1)

Beatlebum (213957) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269303)

Google watermarking. A good audio watermark would be difficult to remove and would prevent reencoding efforts *if* the right infrastructure was present. Bottom line, for this to be somewhat effective it would require support at the hardware level.

Re:Boringhorn (1)

slashpot (11017) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269363)

...which wouldn't be backwards compatible. If I can't buy a CD and play it in my existing cd players than I'm not buying the CD. My guess is the same goes for most other people (at least the ones that still actually buy CDs).

Re:Boringhorn (1)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269321)

It's not, but you'll be going from digital to analog with noise back to digital and then compressed. You'll lose quality. What will end up happening is most people will either buy the music off online music distributors or keep downloading the DRM free songs from P2P.

Re:Boringhorn (1)

slashpot (11017) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269422)

I'm OK with loosing a little quality - that process still sounds better than a Rhapsody stream. Well - I say it sounds better. I honestly can't hear the difference from listening to a CD and listening to a clear FM station.

Re:Boringhorn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269358)

RTFA, Secure Audio Path protects the audio all the way to the speakers.

Re:Boringhorn (1)

slashpot (11017) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269394)

bullshit - if my speaker can play it, I can record it.

Bonus is Good, right? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269222)

Please help I don't know.

bad news for macintosh (5, Informative)

denlin (733557) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269223)

Since copy-protected discs are not standard CDs, Apple Computer says they are not meant to be played on its products. In addition, repairs required to undo damage caused by such discs may not be covered by its warranties.

Apple designs its CD drives to support media that conforms to (published Compact Disc) standards. Therefore, any attempt to use nonstandard discs with Apple CD drives will be considered a misapplication of the product. Under the terms of Apple's one-year limited warranty, AppleCare Protection Plan, or other Apple Care agreements, any misapplication of the product is excluded from Apple's repair coverage.

Some copy-protected audio discs are causing Mac OS computers to start to a gray screen. In some cases, the discs will not easily eject from the computer.

Re:bad news for macintosh (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269338)

Some copy-protected audio discs are causing Mac OS computers to start to a gray screen. In some cases, the discs will not easily eject from the computer.

And that is why god invented the paper clip. Which then went on to be idolized in Microsoft Office, which in turn caused people so much anguish that they took their own lives, therefore bringing them closer to god. Or something like that...

Consumer Choice 101 (1)

spellraiser (764337) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269381)

It's bad news, period:

For their part, Levy and Munns have allegedly provided a "strawman" proposed framework, which covers familiar ground such as the ability for CD buyers "to make a specified number of protected copies of the disc". But there are also some more ambitious requests, such as "when copying the files to the hard drive the consumer can use any protected music file format of their choice". We imagine Apple won't be willing to play ball on this front.

In other words: 'You can copy your files in any format, as long as it's got the right kind of DRM.'

I can't begin to contemplate what would happen to the music industry if it were to accept Microsoft's offer. In fact, I can't begin to contemplate the possibility that it would accept such a mad proposal.

Protecting CDs with a new scheme that's built into Longhorn will mean, as far as I can see, that these CDs will be unplayable on any standalone CD player that's currently out there. So what are people supposed to do; upgrade their players alongside their Windows? Also, as has been pointed out already - what about Apple and other computer platforms?

This is simply ridiculous. I'm at loss for words.

Re:bad news for macintosh (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269454)

I doubt that encryption will physically damage a CD drive. Besides, Apple doesn't design drives. At most, it might be a drive from Pioneer or whoever with a custom firmware tag, and a custom label.

I think it behooves Apple to make a better system rather than crashing once it sees a bitstream it doesn't understand.

Quid pro quo? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269228)

I think the submitter is confused--they're supposed to have to give us something extra for the DRM, which means they admit that it's cumbersome.

Now then, the part I object to is that we don't have much choice about whether this bargain is agreeable or not--it's take it or leave it, with probably no way for us to choose no DRM at all.

Of course, I would expect that it will be swiftly cracked, and I doubt they'll be able to fix it any more than they can with CSS, DMCA be damned.

Re:Quid pro quo? (1)

mcpres (643433) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269431)

Well your choice would be not to purchase those particular CDs then. But if MS and the RIAA team up and only release them in that format, then only Longhorn systems (or ones with a similar client) would be able to play the CDs. Seems unlikely the RIAA would be able to get away with that, and if they did, probably loose more money in the process.

And this will work how exactly? (5, Insightful)

blankman (94269) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269234)

The CDs are still going to have regular audio tracks, so they can play in regular CD players. Longhorn will still read regular audio tracks, so it can still play old CDs that don't have a DRMed copy of their content. Even if Longhorn checks for a mixed-mode CD and restricts access to the music portion, that breaks older mixed-mode CDs that have the music on the audio portion only, and other content on the data portion. Bottom line, it sounds to me like I'll still be able to just hold shift.

Re:And this will work how exactly? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269379)

And if they take away the "shift key" ability to prevent autorun, we'll just pull out the old magic marker and fix the protection the old fashioned way.

Re:And this will work how exactly? (2, Interesting)

Maestro4k (707634) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269429)

  • The CDs are still going to have regular audio tracks, so they can play in regular CD players. Longhorn will still read regular audio tracks, so it can still play old CDs that don't have a DRMed copy of their content. Even if Longhorn checks for a mixed-mode CD and restricts access to the music portion, that breaks older mixed-mode CDs that have the music on the audio portion only, and other content on the data portion. Bottom line, it sounds to me like I'll still be able to just hold shift.
Right now this is true but given the efforts the RIAA has been making with getting laws passed in the US by the time Longhorn comes out it may not be LEGAL to include a regular unencrypted audio track on a CD any more. While consumers and home audio companies would be livid about this, Congress and the RIAA seem to think ideas like that are just grand. Look at the DMCA and the proposed Induce act for examples.

gored by longhorn (5, Insightful)

koan (80826) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269238)

Thank you M$ you just gave me the "final straw" to migrate to Linux.

You'll be back... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269353)

Just wait until that next great game comes out, and you *surprise* can't play it on Linux.

Re:You'll be back... (1)

satoshi1 (794000) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269452)

That's what WinXP/2000, or even 98 in some cases, is for.

Re:gored by longhorn (4, Funny)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269360)

Well, if you're going to migrate before longhorn comes out, I suggest you wait for Mandrake 15.1. I have a feeling that's going to be a good distro. Then again, SuSE 14.5 should be good too. I hope kernel 4.6.8.1 is going to be all it's cracked up to be though.

The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin... (5, Funny)

ttys00 (235472) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269239)

...the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

Re:The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269298)

HAHA! Mod this guy up! way up!

debian (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269245)

# apt-get install longhorn
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package longhorn

Still not out yet huh?

Sounds so arrogant (5, Insightful)

scotay (195240) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269247)

For someone who has no problem with MS, this is really arrogant. I don't care how much the music industry wants copy protection, I bet this letter did not go over well. On September 2nd, you give me a letter that gives me 18 whole days to make a decision that has major implications on the future of the entire industry. I bet this must leave even the most jaded observers questioning MS sanity and arrogance.

...and when Win2K is finally dumped by Microsoft.. (1)

darth_silliarse (681945) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269250)

...I'll be using Linux permanently - but not before, Win2K r0xx0r5 for me. Hopefully Linux will mature over the next few years enough for people like my mum to be able to use it too. Cheers M$ nice knowing you!

Re:...and when Win2K is finally dumped by Microsof (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269416)

Hopefully in the next few years your mom will also be mature enough to use it too :)

End users bitch because they can't install their old MS-DOS cribbage games on XP for crying out loud.

What if it is outlawed? (5, Interesting)

Pig Hogger (10379) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269253)

What if a country who cares about it's citizen's rights (like Germany, where Macrovision is illegal, because it prevents backups) and decides to OUTLAW the copy-protection scheme?

Buying CD's? (5, Insightful)

blenderking (324269) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269256)

I figure in 2006 (when Longhorn is supposed to ship) I won't be buying CD's anymore; I barely do as it is now. I really enjoy ITunes and the pricing for a full album's material is almost always better than any retailer's (including Amazon) price.

ITunes restrictions are reasonable enough that they don't get in my way...and it's cheaper. I don't need a physical CD anymore. Music on demand. I like it.

DiVX all over again (4, Insightful)

ediron2 (246908) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269260)

Cool.

This'll be like DiVX and TurboTax. Oh, and Windows XP.

Face it: people without longhorn won't suffer, people with it will, all previous generations of appliance-level devices won't work with the item, and we'll still be able to make perfect copies of an almost-perfect first-generation analog copy. No upside, a zillion downsides.

I can't wait for this show...

Re:DiVX all over again (-1, Redundant)

ediron2 (246908) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269300)

Cool.

This'll be like DiVX and TurboTax. Oh, and Windows XP.

Face it: people without longhorn won't suffer, people with it will, all previous generations of appliance-level devices won't work with the item, and we'll still be able to make perfect copies of an almost-perfect first-generation analog copy. No upside, a zillion downsides.

Oh, and it's a last-minute design, which (together with being closed-source) gives me confidence it'll get cracked.

I can't wait for this show...

If you can play it (1)

da2 (542211) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269269)

the age old argument that if you can play a piece of multimedia then it can be recorded using a microphone, unless they are outlawed by these new DMCAalikes, which, to be honest, wouldn't surprise me in the least, after all they can be used as 'Circumvention Devices' or whatever

Not going to happen (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269273)

You see, if the old way doesn't work, CD players around the world are going to be unable to play CDs. If CDs are only playable in computers, CD sales would go drastically down as people will now be forced to rip their own CD, getting the music from another source, ala, kazaa, and probably pirating would go up.

I don't see the logic (2, Funny)

Prock (758254) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269283)

There is always another way to rip the audio from CDs. So Microsoft builds copy protection into their OS. Who cares. It wont stop me from making backups of my CDs.

Re:I don't see the logic (5, Informative)

Maestro4k (707634) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269371)

  • There is always another way to rip the audio from CDs. So Microsoft builds copy protection into their OS. Who cares. It wont stop me from making backups of my CDs.
It could actually, or at least make it extremely difficult. The article says it's not clear what method Microsoft is pushing but it could be the "Secure Audio Path" concept (which would protect content all the way to a computer's speakers, making it impossible to make digital copies by recording from the soundcard). In that case Microsoft would likely mandate hardware changes or hardware wouldn't be certified as usable with Longhorn or simply Longhorn would refuse to accept it. Even if you use Linux if all the hardware you get enforces the copy protection in the hardware it's going to make it really difficult to rip the audio from those CDs.

IANAL (3, Informative)

TeaQuaffer (809857) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269292)

nor so I speak Latin, so I didn't know that Quid Pro Quo means "An equal exchange or substitution." ( American Heritage [reference.com] )

Re:IANAL (1, Insightful)

BizidyDizidy (689383) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269443)

You forgot to add "and I don't know common idioms used regularly in real life although apparently not the irc channels and web forums in which I spend all meaningful portions of my life."

No problem, I'll add it for you.

HA! I've 2 hotels on that CD. (1)

agtorange (804364) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269307)

Well M$ will play monoply with the RIAA the same as they play it with everything else.

patriot act (2, Interesting)

orpx (692347) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269308)

isn't this how the patriot act was passed? wait until the last minute so it has to be agreed upon OR ELSE.

I have a question. (1)

after (669640) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269318)

If a music disk can be played on a computer, it is completely posible to record the music into ogg/mp3 ... even if it's through analog wires, it's still possible.

The only way to protect music is to make the disks NOT playable.

I've seen things like this before... (5, Insightful)

here4fun (813136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269322)

The letter, dated 2 September 2004, says that Microsoft's offer came "literally in the last few days" but requires that labels across the entire industry agree upon a specification for the functionality of the protected discs by 20 September.

Trying to push something at the last second never works. There will be mistakes, a need for new patches, who knows.

I would think as long as a CD-Rom can read a disk as a data disk, then this will all be meaningless. Someone will write an application which will skip over the "bonus" track. The only way this can work is if MS decides their windows media player is the only player they will allow. But didn't the courts tell MS they could not do that?

Article says independent studios are scared (4, Interesting)

Maestro4k (707634) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269325)

What I found most interesting about the article was this little blurb from near the end:
  • Many independent labels are rumoured to be terrified by the proposal, our sources suggest, which could grant Microsoft the mandate on CD copy protection and, if it is accepted by the industry, potentially increase the costs of CD production.
While here on /. we take it for granted that cries of Microsoft's trying to take over/muscle into a new market/etc. will occur but this is the first time I've heard of a company from well outside the computer industry voicing similar concerns. If this happens and their fears are realized Microsoft would effectively be able to leverage their OS monopoly into practically owning an entirely new industry for them -- the music industry.

I don't know about you but that thought's pretty scary. I don't like copy protection at all (I bought the damn thing, I want to do what I want to with it, and no that doesn't include sharing it illegally) if it's going to happen I don't think Microsoft is a trustworthy steward to have in control of it. Based on their past actions the whole music industry would probably get worse than the current corrupt and abusive (to artists and fans) system.

Microsoft have attempted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269326)

If you are using a plural verb, shouldn't it be Microsofts or Microsoftii? Or is it both singular and plural, like moose and deer?

Commonwealth English (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269440)

Pretty much everywhere but the U.S. a company name is a plural noun.

Don't use our software, or we'll sue! (4, Insightful)

RealProgrammer (723725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269345)

This is really good news for Linux vendors.

Microsoft got to be the dominant OS vendor by lowering the barriers for acquisition of its products. No copy protection (mostly), and it came on every box.

I guess they learned their lesson. If you leave off the copy protection, those silly consumers will start using the stuff right and left and then where will you be?

Market share is everything.

And Microsoft pushing around the RIAA -- that's wonderful stuff.

Bend over how far? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10269355)

Where does Microsoft expect us to install that long horn?

I don't see where I'm getting any kind of benefit from their plan.

Competition Good (2, Insightful)

KrackHouse (628313) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269357)

Forget about lower prices and increased innovation, the real benefit of having an alternative in Linux IMO is the protection of our rights as consumers. MS will simply speed the migration to Linux if it tries to cram DRM down our throats.

I don't like this... (1)

Chuck Bucket (142633) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269393)

this is starting to bend towards the copy protect bios on the Motherboard. come on, how hard would it be for MS to follow Apple's lead and now copy protect, just put out great software that ppl dont' mind buying? with all the blue screens you can see why ppl don't feel winders isn't worth buying.

How many coopys of winders get sold =vs= how many versions of winders are just 'bought' preinstalled on a computer?

CBNSDUFGHK*(((&*&*

I'll bet that... (2, Insightful)

JustNiz (692889) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269399)

they'll jump on it just because it will cause problems to your average low-tech user.

The music industry/hollywood are trying to kill-off CD and DVD as fast as they can because they are copyable.

I bet it won't be long before the only way to buy movies/music will be over the net via a DRM mechanism and traditional store-bought media (and all non-DRM players ) have a very limited time left to run.

Bring on the Fair Use Lawsuits (4, Interesting)

grunt107 (739510) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269418)

Unless the MS encryption scheme was given to all music media players (including rival OSs), a music industry crushing fair use lawsuit should be brought. Music has always been (by design) a portable genre. Old example - I buy an LP and make a tape (or mix tape if it's for m'Lady) so I can play it in the car. When CD burners came along I pulled the LP into the PC, split tracks and cleaned the audio - then made a CD. I also ripped these tracks into my MP3 player to go jogging (like I jog!).
Movies are less portable, but I should be allowed a backup, and I used to be able to 'cut' a scene and make it my desktop wallpaper. Those should also be 'fair use'.

redundant ... but funny? (2, Funny)

slowhand (191637) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269425)

All your digital rights are belong to us...

obligatory (0, Redundant)

ardor (673957) | more than 9 years ago | (#10269450)

I for one welcome our new copy protection overlords.
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