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213 comments

Salesforce.com (4, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10311808)

It's all LAMP.

Re:Salesforce.com (3, Informative)

ccollao (227727) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312189)

Just a small explanation:

http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2001/01/25/la mp .html

Re:Salesforce.com (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312217)

Hypothetically, if Microsoft ported IIS to Linux, could you actually then run LIMP?

Re:Salesforce.com (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312291)

not quite https://www.salesforce.com/login.jsp

Re:Salesforce.com (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312359)

Uhh, the .jsp at the end of every URL and their CTO's continued public advocacy of BEA Weblogic and Oracle makes me think that either I have the wrong idea of what LAMP constitutes, or you do.

Ehhmmm, from the BEA testomnial page..

"Salesforce.com is thrilled to be leveraging WebLogic Workshop 8.1 as an integrated part of our sforce client/service architecture. Using the extreme power of BEA WebLogic Workshop will enable us to make sforce available and accessible to the huge community of mainstream application developers and a wider spectrum of enterprise-class application projects on the industry leading BEA WebLogic Enterprise Platform. I could not imagine a more important combination than BEA and salesforce.com."

- Marc Benioff
Chairman and CEO
salesforce.com

Re:Salesforce.com (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312619)

$ HEAD http://www.salesforce.com|grep ^Server:
Server: Resin/3.0.s040331

lamp! (2, Informative)

Chuck Bucket (142633) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311859)

you can do allot with Lamp, just look at....SLASHDOT!

CB$@#--C

Re:lamp! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10311898)

Yes. I came to /. when it was all dark and gloomy. I had never seen such darkness outside before. Having a lamp definitely helped. It let me meander through the maze of twisted posts, all alike. I would have been lost had it not been for the lamp. Thanks lamp. Thanks for showing me the light.

Re:lamp! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10311954)

Without a lamp you may have been eaten by a grue too.

Re:lamp! (2, Informative)

Higman (83293) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312012)

Just to nitpick

LAMP is php (and linux, apache, mysql) and last I checked Slashdot used mod_perl...

but it is still open source.

Re:lamp! (3, Informative)

nv5 (697631) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312067)


I thought the P means any or all of the P language: PHP, Python, Perl

Re:lamp! (5, Informative)

Nos. (179609) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312070)

Actually, LAMP can also refer to PERL and Python as well as PHP.

Re:lamp! (1)

Higman (83293) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312559)

Thank you for the correction, the last time I looked at the definition it was php, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore...

Re:lamp! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312719)

Ah, you must be young. "LAMP" has been around before PHP, lad. Originally it stood for Perl.

Re:lamp! (1)

SiliconRedox (231604) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312287)

Unless you go by the somewhat popular definition of Lamp as Linux Apache Mysql PHP/Perl, which I've seen more often than a singular choice of php or perl.

Re:lamp! (1, Informative)

kelzer (83087) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312390)

Hmmm, this post is modded up as informative, when it should really be modded down as misinformative (if only there were such an option).

Somebody please mod up one of the child posts that correct the parent by pointing out that the "P" in LAMP represents Perl, Python, or PHP. Please DON'T give me the karma, give it to those still posting at 1. Thanks.

Speaking of slashdot... (1)

IANAAC (692242) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312263)

Please don't take this as a troll. It's not.

About a month or so ago, slashdot was regularly dying while fetching pages. Anybody know what was actually causing the problem? I suspected it was Mysql, but don't know.

In any case, it seems to have quieted down some.

Re:Speaking of slashdot... (1)

Chuck Bucket (142633) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312315)

Was it the 503 error? I seemed to be getting that awhile ago, but it went away. Someone said it was tied to using Firefox?

CB

Re:Speaking of slashdot... (2, Informative)

BridgeBum (11413) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312341)

I got a 503 error earlier today using IE from work. So it's not limited to Firefox.

Re:Speaking of slashdot... (2, Informative)

Tongo (644233) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312531)

I was also getting the 503 in Opera. Not for a while though.

Typical Livejournal (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10311880)

OMG! Today I had CEREAL!!!!!

With MILK!!!! OMG!!

Re:Typical Livejournal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312026)

Or worse..."OMG! Steve is soooooo hot! I so bad want him! OMG! I hope he never finds out." You are posting to the Internet, moron...

Re:Typical Livejournal (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312036)

How true [livejournal.com]

From link --
speakin of french and korea did u no they both opposed the war in iraq? 1 is a comunist country and the othr is a no-fight-anytime country. mabye there in this 2gethr to squash the american gold medals an make ppl think there strong! HEY KOREA WE BLEW U UP IN WW2 W/ TEH ATOM BOMB WE'LL DO IT AGAIN. an french ppl suck.

Re:Typical Livejournal (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312222)

I wish I still had mod points, that's some seriously funny/sad shit.

Re:Typical Livejournal (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312295)

You're a +5 funny in my book.

Re:Typical Livejournal (1)

networkBoy (774728) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312408)

"HEY KOREA WE BLEW U UP IN WW2 W/ TEH ATOM BOMB WE'LL DO IT AGAIN."

That's just sad. That someone is that wrong on their history about such a major point. I would post a correction, but I'd rather not post my IP addr to the world on her blog. I'll have to do it when I get home from work.
-nB

Re:Typical Livejournal (5, Funny)

MC Negro (780194) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312618)

Haha. This part got me here --

without a doubt Jesus would've been the best president ever. When he was only 12 years old he went to the temple to preach to the Jews and was just amazing everyone. Think how much better the U.S.A. would be if Bill Clinton wasn't Bill Clinto but instead was Jesus? Do you think we'd be fighting a way? NO!! We'd all be loving each other because thats what Jesus was about! LOVE! There isn't enough love in the world! Jesus would also be great because hes not only the son of god, HES A PRINCE OF PEACE!!! Hed probably do things differently. Even George W Bush could learn from Jesus (and thats why George W Bush is a christian and we need to keep him in office!!)

LiveJournal -- Convincing teenage girls that someone cares about what they have to say since 1999.

Re:Typical Livejournal (4, Funny)

seanmeister (156224) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312127)

Brad Fitzpatrick apparently agrees with your take on LJ, judging from the sample user data shown on page 24 of the presentation:

OMG i like totally hate my parents they just dont understand me and i h8 the world omg lol rofl *! :^- ^^; add me as a friend!!!

Java, Tomcat, Apache on UNIX (1, Interesting)

emptybody (12341) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311908)

My companies backend is mostly Java.
We are using Oracle as the database, and Solaris as the UNIX, but we could be using MySQL and Linux.

In fact, we are investigating that right now :)

Re:Java, Tomcat, Apache on UNIX (4, Interesting)

Kainaw (676073) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312014)

We are using Fedora, Postgres, and PHP for what I consider a rather large-scale application. It is a storage and query system for research on a few million patients. We could have gone with Oracle and Java (...shiver...), or even MSSQL and a Windows server, but why waste money? The only real headache I've had is figuring out that Apache2 is threaded and Postgres/PHP sits on top of some low-level linux code that is not. I could use Apache instead of Apache2 to fix the problem, but I fixed the non-threaded code instead.

Hope you sent in a patch (1)

g8oz (144003) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312691)

If you fixed that non-threaded code I hope you sent in a patch to the relevant people!

Re:Java, Tomcat, Apache on UNIX (2, Interesting)

FortKnox (169099) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312199)

Absolutely. Having a J2EE project running Linux servers with Apache, JBoss, and PostGRES aren't unheard of... and most J2EE developers prefer to use eclipse.

That's 100% open source, people... and we are talking large corporate intraweb apps and such.

I work mostly with financial institutions... they prefer IBM backed Linux servers with WebSphere... but still like eclipse (or WSAD, which is eclipse with a Websphere test server plugin), and a commercial DB (oracle, DB2, or informix are popular)... but they still use frameworks like struts, tapestry, spring, and hibernate... all open source.

Uh, the Web itself (4, Insightful)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311910)

"Large Scale Web Apps Built on Open Source"

Uh, like, you mean the Web itself? That's large scale, certainly was built, and is most certainly built on open source.

So, yeah, I reckon it can be done. I'm using the proof-of-concept to submit this comment.

layers -- kind a like the onion (3, Informative)

yintercept (517362) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312088)

The web is really a mixed bag that allows a mix of open standards, and proprietary software. To claim it is all open source is misleading. It is a dynamic network that allows development on multiple layers.

The most important aspect of the web is that the interface of the different layers were well defined and exposed...not that each line of code in the different layers is exposed.

Re:Uh, the Web itself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312254)

Not sure how you made it to 5 with that post. The web is not nearly open source. There is a ton of propietary code in the hardware and a large part of the software. The web was also not "built" in the traditional sense that software is built. The web is more like a plant that started from a seed.

Re:Uh, the Web itself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312368)

Wasn't the Barners-Lee's (or whatever his name is) "Web" built on NeXT--Steve Jobs' post-Apple system, and the predecessor to Apple's OSX? There was nothing open source about that.

In fact, that was from the people-with-deep-pockets-use-UNIX days.

Re:Uh, the Web itself (1)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312431)

*sigh* yes, I should have said "the Net" instead of thinking it and writing "the Web." Man, everybody is looking at the letter of the law today instead of the spirit. This wouldn't be happening if this was a Friday afternoon...

Humor is dead (0)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312397)

I make a cute comment as humor, and I get one person saying the Web is not ALL open source (as if I said it was), and another person saying there's lots of proprietary stuff on the Web (as if I said otherwise) and that it wasn't built in the traditional sense (duh). Then I get moderators modding it down because they got offended that it was marked so high or marked as Insightful.

People, people, people. Chill out. What I said is true, the Web is built on open source. Not all of it but quite a bit. It was originally built on open source principles, long before the corporations even heard of it. It grew mostly through open source principles. And no, my comment wasn't meannt to be taken so seriously. I was using humor to illustrate a point. Too subtle humor, evidently.

Re:Humor is dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312463)

Humor is only funny if it actually made a bit of sense but while the original base from the web may have been open sourced I would say that about 5% of the web is currently open source (IE is the number 1 browser, IIS is on 50% of all servers, most router firmware is closed source, etc.). If anything it is easier to say that the web wouldn't have developed without propietary software.

And a good comedian never has to explain their joke.

Re:Uh, the Web itself (2, Interesting)

drouse (34156) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312409)

Sure, Slashdot is just Apache, some Linux boxes, some Perl maybe some C -- not a big deal...

The LJ folks faced scaling problems and had financial limits on how much money they could throw at the problem. So they used smarts and OS software instead of huge piles of money. They also built some new tools that are OS themselves, thus contributing back to the community (I hate that phrase, but this is Slashdot).

The presentation is actually interesting technically, and good news for Linux/MySQL/Perl/etc.

(I guess what I'm saying is that I didn't see a huge call for sarcasm).

.sxi format? (2, Funny)

numbski (515011) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311916)

Anyone know what that document format is since it's roughly half the size of the pdf?

Re:.sxi format? (5, Informative)

Higman (83293) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311953)

Are you serious?

In the off chance that you are, it's one of the OpenOffice.org formats, inheritted from StarOffice... it's supposed to be their answer to MS PowerPoint.

Re:.sxi format? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312260)

Are you serious? You think that most people know what an .sxi file is? lol. I use OpenOffice myself and I had no idea. PDFs and PPTs I know.

Re:.sxi format? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312676)

Yup, I bet he was, I didn't know either. He should have googled [google.com] first.

Re:.sxi format? (1)

FubarPA (670436) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311956)

That would be the OpenOffice Impress (presentation). My guess is Brad created the slides in OO, then saved as both PDF and SXI.

Re:.sxi format? (1)

alt-j (777543) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311975)

it's StarOffice Impress. (PowerPoint equivalent)
Now, does anyone know the password to open it?

Re:.sxi format? (1)

Vadim Grinshpun (31) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311976)

Er, that would be Star Office.
I think their powerpoint equivalent is called Impress, so that's the "i" in "sxi"

Re:.sxi format? (1)

Kedder (529127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311995)

Anyone know what that document format is since it's roughly half the size of the pdf?

I believe it's OpenOffice.org Impress format (PowerPoint counterpart)...

Re:.sxi format? (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312008)

Its open source of course, everyone knows whoever uses OSS has the latest, greatest, fastest machine and internet connection on the planet. Its an OpenOffice Impress file.

Re:.sxi format? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312173)

is that you, Bill ?

Re:.sxi format? (0, Redundant)

introverted (675306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312216)

Anyone know what that document format is since it's roughly half the size of the pdf?

A quick Google search says it's a StarOffice "Impress" presentation file. (Open Source answer to Power Point?)

Po-open Source (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10311934)

and to those who'd mention emu ports, the processor in a mac is not as powerful as that in a PC of the same price-range, nor are most emulators that are ported to mac optimized to run on mac. additionally, i don't believe all pc games are really shite these days. some gems are released occasionally... not that the mac gets ports of them most of the time anyway.

seriously, i can't understand why anyone with even rudimentary knowledge of information technology would use a mac, other than the simplicity of use after a hard day's work on a real computer. as for me working on a mac feels almost condescendingly... simple. that's all well and good for someone who desires only to do simple tasks on their [vastly overpriced] computer, but for someone who needs to get into the guts of the machine for either fun, hobby, or simple necessity, macs are clearly not the best computers to get.

the audience for apple products is essentially people who either:

a) are better off not fiddling with the workings of a system [those unskilled when it comes to PCs]

b) people who still believe macs have better video & audio quality or are better for audio/visual editing. generally artfags, sometimes professionally.

c) people who believe the 'think different' ad campaign and the faux-utopian company-manufactured apple 'community' mean apple products make them cool. artfags, trendy college kids, yuppie blogger types.

c2) people too stubborn to switch to PCs because they have been using apple products for years and have developed 'brand loyalty'. these people are just idiots.

d) ipod users. another subclass of c, really, because they are stupid enough to buy a more expensive, less reliable, nigh-featureless product simply because everyone else has one. apple has a near-monopoly on digital music hardware and DRM'd music sales both [a 54% share of the mp3 player market against MANY competitors, plus something like 80-90% of the digital music sale market, i'm not sure about the latter figure, i haven't checked lately]. the ipod is shit hardware with shit support [the battery problem], and the alternatives are cheaper & better.

and worst of all:

e) people who buy the computer because it comes in a prefab cabinet that looks like a lamp and is therefore 'prettier'. these people are the same who hire interior designers and 'feng shui' twats to tell them what to buy and where to put it. yuppies mostly. fucking yuppies.

think boycott.

build your own pc for 1/3-1/2 the price. when it comes to laptops, you can get more powerful machines from other huge companies for a better price because they don't look like massive, colourful clamshell-style BC pillcases. you don't even have to install windows on the fucker if you don't want to. i'm sure some company still sells machines with no OS. go linux if you want to be different and special. or beos. or something that doesn't suck.

Re:Po-open Source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312332)

Of course this got a troll mod but its what I've been thinking about Apple for a long time. If Apple had never gone to BSD or whatever, there wouldn't be as many Apple Nazi's all over this website and that article probably wouldn't have gotten modded a troll.

opensource sxi? (2, Funny)

AssProphet (757870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311981)

Why is there a password on this sxi file (star office presentation)... is the file not open source?

Open Source = Slow Site? (-1, Flamebait)

neilb78 (557698) | more than 9 years ago | (#10311989)

That "open source" stuff must suck; their web site is really slow.

helixcommunity.org is another big one... (4, Informative)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312007)

...right here [helixcommunity.org].

It's powered by GForge [gforge.org], so it's backed by PHP and PostgreSQL [postgresql.org].

There are a bunch of other sites running GForge listed here [gforge.org]...

GForge is your own personal SourceForge (1)

jaaron (551839) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312248)

GForge [gforge.org] really is great. We're using it internally at my workplace for request tracking and project management. Now, if only 4.0 would come out soon... :)

Re:GForge is your own personal SourceForge (1)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312412)

> We're using it internally at my workplace

Cool. I help admin RubyForge [rubyforge.org]; GForge has handled the load really well. Good stuff!

Re:helixcommunity.org is another big one... (1)

eli173 (125690) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312625)

It's powered by GForge
That looks pretty nice. How much effort is involved in setting up something like that? (For internal use, I mean.)
Not being one to want to re-invent the wheel, do you know of anyone packaging that for Fedora Core?

Re:helixcommunity.org is another big one... (1)

tcopeland (32225) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312698)

> How much effort is involved in
> setting up something like that?

Welll.... I've found it to be a decent amount of work. On the other hand, maybe that's because I'm not really a Unix guru. But you'll need to install PHP, PostgreSQL, Apache, Mailman, Sendmail, and various other components to get things running. It _can_ be done - but it can take a while to sort things out.

There are Debian packages available, and I think folks are happy with those - but I've never used them, so I can't say for sure.

> anyone packaging that for Fedora Core?

There are some spec files in the GForge CVS repository, but I'm not sure how up to date they are. I just installed mine "from scratch".

Maypole! (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312022)

Maypole [perl.org] is a Perl framework for MVC-oriented web applications, similar to Jakarta's Struts. Maypole is designed to minimize coding requirements for creating simple web interfaces to databases, while remaining flexible enough to support enterprise web applications.

There are some problems with this... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312027)

They may not know this, but when using multiple servers in a farm...

Slaves upon slaves doesn't scale well...it only spreads reads and eventually... databases will be consumed by writing

and not to mention...Database master is point of failure and Reparenting slaves on master failure tricky at best - (without downtime)

Spreading Writes
Our database machines already did RAID
We did backups
So why put user data on 6+ slave machines?
(~12+ disks)
- overkill redundancy
- wasting time writing everywhere

Livejournal Images (5, Funny)

tinla (120858) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312056)

Ok, so most of the Journals lack even a scrap of entertainment value... but the data feeds are normally fun. Is there anyone left that hasn't wasted a few bytes on the following url?

http://www.livejournal.com/stats/latest-img.bml [livejournal.com]

Hint - its a constantly updating list of all the new images posted to journals. After a while you give up waiting for a hot chick to post and decide crazy survey graphics are as good as it gets. And then some hot chick posts her birthday party pictures, but she's only 14 and suddenly you wish you'd spent the day doing something else.

Re:Livejournal Images (2, Interesting)

ricotest (807136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312487)

Anyone got an XSL to make those links clickable? (Linkifcation doesn't seem to work with XML)

Porn (5, Interesting)

Neil Blender (555885) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312069)

Back in the .com days, I worked at a huge (now defunct) porn site. We had about 50,000 active hosted sites, 500,000 hit counters and a bunch of other stuff. We were getting tens of millions of page views daily, maxing out two 100 megabit circuits at times. It was all FreeBSD, a little Redhat, Perl, mysql, squid, apache, mod_perl and C. The only real closed stuff we used were BigIPs and traffic monitoring software.

Re:Porn (1)

TheSync (5291) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312372)

Yeah, but serving out static content is not a challenge...granted, your eCommerce operations were probably impressive.

Re:Porn (3, Funny)

dmayle (200765) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312537)

Porn (Score:4, Interesting)

I worked at a huge (now defunct) porn site.

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure the interesting mod is about working for a porn site, and has nothing to do with the hardware or software (for those who even read that far... ;)

I'm sorry. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312567)

Back in the .com days, I worked at a huge (now defunct) porn site.

You know the economy sucks when even the porn web sites are going out of business. DAMN YOU BUSH!!!

BTW, who got the unpleasant task of cleaning the keyboards there?

it's a trap! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312100)

email me fcnz.zr@gmail.com

Get a clue (0, Flamebait)

hexghost (444585) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312104)

Reading this provided a laugh, until I realized its a pervasive belief among the world. At what point does a person think, gee i've already got 5 servers running my site, adding more doesn't really seem to improve much; perhaps its time to write the site better?

It just goes to show that this person knew little about web site development and architecture - if they did they wouldn't have gone to this point. It also goes to show the failure of the technologies. Give it up slashdot crowd. mod_perl is not a valid technology for a large scale website! Perl was designed for a task, and that task was NOT enterprise application development.

A properly designed website with n-tier sepperation will be able to handle a large load and scale infinitly. You'll note that large websites who actually do real things besides logging people's daily problems don't use mod_perl and a thousand servers. There's a reason for this.

Re:Get a clue (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312176)

It's a pervasive belief among the suddenly famous. IBM, MS, or Sun doesn't need this. It's the small website with a bright idea that is all of a sudden gaining popularity which goes through almost each of the stages described in this document.

This is for people with absolutely no budget and infinite traffic. This is how to live through that and come out winning like Brad apparently has.

Re:Get a clue (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312185)

I guess Amazon.com [masonhq.com] is one of those not-properly-designed websites that doesn't do anything real?

Re:Get a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312337)

Nice try trollboy... as an extremely small example, the following servers all run Apache/mod_perl:

nfl.com
cbs.sportsline.com
pgatour.com
cityse arch.com
slashdot.org
imdb.com
valueclick.com

etc. etc. etc.

Re:Get a clue (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312391)

A little harsh considering the guy's starting point, but it is true that most people / companies don't think things through. I put in a lot of startup web sites in the 90's, and used to give lectures on, among other things, why replicating databases doesn't scale. Looks like people still think that replicating databases is a solution, almost ten years later. It makes me glad I opted out of the e-com performance world, or I'd still be solving exactly the same problems.

Simple lessons:
-replicating database all over the place doesn't work
-adding lots of servers doesn't work unless the apps are designed to work that way
-object-relational and object databases are useful for a narrow class of problems, and Do Not Scale
-java/perl/etc. are great, but you have to learn some SQL because doing things like sorting data in code is stupid when the database is 10x faster doing on retrieval than your code
There's the material I used to get $2000 for for a 1 hour lecture. Share and enjoy.

Re:Get a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312708)

So besides having the database sort data, what does work?

Oooh, handwaving. (0, Redundant)

chromatic (9471) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312413)

I see your link to Java.net (running on mod_perl, by the way). Perhaps you like J2EE? The original goal of Java (err, Oak) was to program embedded devices. What does that have to do with anything?

I've come to the conclusion that people who say things like "____ doesn't scale" are merely engaging in vigorous and pedantic platform self-congratulation.

Yes, that's a euphemism.

Re:Get a clue (1)

MattRog (527508) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312476)

I can't speak to the "Perl Sux!" allegation but I would say that MySQL is at least partially at fault, too, especially considering the limited clustering, partitioning, replication, and locking schemes it has.

They could/should have moved to a much better DBMS. Although the DBMS licensing fee would've been non-trivial it would have meant SIGNIFICANTLY reduced hardware costs and much much less application code development. I even suggested this several years ago but I was told that licensing costs were prohibitive even as they were throwing away $40K on useless hardware.

Re:Get a clue (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312500)

You'll note that large websites who actually do real things besides logging people's daily problems don't use mod_perl and a thousand servers.

*Cough* amazon.com. *Cough* ticketmaster.com.

Re:Get a clue (4, Insightful)

Graelin (309958) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312715)

You need to get over your favorite language/technology/term you read in the trade-rag you read last week. And then you need to get over yourself.

Give it up slashdot crowd. mod_perl is not a valid technology for a large scale website! Perl was designed for a task, and that task was NOT enterprise application development.

Spoken like someone who has never had to build a very large site (doing "real" work) completely in Perl/mod_perl. I can tell you that it most certainly can scale to enterprise needs. Did this guy do it right? I don't think so either but he most certainly learned a valuable lesson. Hopefully other people will study what he has done and improve their own systems based on his work.

For the record, Java wasn't built for enterprise application development either. As with Perl, people discovered that Java had a future there and here we are today.

A properly designed website with n-tier sepperation will be able to handle a large load and scale infinitly. You'll note that large websites who actually do real things besides logging people's daily problems don't use mod_perl and a thousand servers. There's a reason for this.

You're assuming two dangerous things... (1) That you can't have n-tier and Perl. And (2) that large mod_perl sites require lots of servers. To believe any of these things is to demonstrate your horrific misunderstanding of computer science in general. I pity the company that lets you design their architecture. Wait, no I don't.... I'll gladly take their money for fixing your mistakes.

Oh yeah, and let us not forget some other languages that are showing promise... specifically Python+Zope. In fact, I know of several people implementing n-tier applications with PHP on the front, Python in the middle and PostgreSQL in the back with much success.

And for the record, here [amazon.com] are [ticketmaster.com] some [etoys.com] large [rent.com] companies [find-job.net] and [redhat.com] sites [redhat.com] heavily [mobile.de] using [afp-direct.com] mod_perl [imdb.com].

Want more [apache.org]?

perl... AGAIN! (1)

0x54524F4C4C (712971) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312256)



Please.. Stop with this perl crap.. Stop making my eyes bleed.. The fact Slashdot uses perl doesn't make any of the two any better.. I can't stand this idiocy anymore..

all of that design (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312293)

and yet it still can't withstand a good ole' slashdotting...

Large scale? (2)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312328)

How is this "large scale?" Maybe it's medium-scale as far as the web goes, but otherwise, it's very much a lightweight app. From livejournal.org:

Per Hour: 6818
Per Minute: 114


That's 2 inserts a second, and maybe a hundred queries a second. Quite honestly, that could be handled by MySQL & PHP. Definitely not what I'd call "large scale".

Re:Large scale? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10312429)

Thats only posts, it doesnt take into account comments (which is probably most of the traffic) userpics, etc.
Your assumption would be correct if it was 1 select for each page view, but since there are about 4-5 just for 1 page view (userpic, friends, info, etc) then that number is misleading.. Fortunally most of that static content is memcached and not hitting the DB's.

LiveJournal isn't THAT large and fairly slow (1)

Fluidic Binary (554336) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312533)

I have used livejournal for some time to communicate and record various things with the lady in my life and I think it is very valuable as an imperfect effort to learn from.

When I initially started using it I found it to be relatively responsive, but over the past year years things seem to be getting slower and slower.

It is clear that his design isn't scaling well without reading the presentation, but after reading it I know see it as a sort of 'case study' to learn from.

But beyond that it has reminded me why any blog you actually want people to read should be elsewhere. Then again the quality of LJ blogs infamous...

Re:LiveJournal isn't THAT large and fairly slow (1)

hey (83763) | more than 9 years ago | (#10312641)

Well, as it gets Slashdotted today its certianly slow.
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