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Interview With Lead Yoper Linux Developer

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the factionalism dept.

Operating Systems 208

Bongoots writes "Andy Kissner from Linuxforums.org has just posted this: 'In the past few weeks, there has been a lot of hype and controversy surrounding Yoper, ranging from insults to ruthless Gentoo comparisons. I recently sat down with Andreas Girardet, who is a key developer for Yoper, to dispell all the rumors and discuss the direction in which the Yoper project is headed.' Click here to read the rest of the interview."

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208 comments

first yope? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314582)

eh?

frost? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314589)

Yoper!

Re:frost? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315256)

Yoper is not a secure distro, use with care! watch out for the /etc/bashrc file. Permissions are set to (read,write,exec) 777 for all users.. Do some nasty stuff in there and you can prevent the system from booting correctly.

Oh well (4, Interesting)

Surye (580125) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314599)

I was excited about this for my old 350mhz celeron laptop. Unfortunately, on completely default install settings, it crashed and burned on the first boot. Back to gentoo + distcc.

Re:Oh well (2, Informative)

GreyPoopon (411036) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314656)

I was excited about this for my old 350mhz celeron laptop.

Were the old 350Mhz celerons considered i686 or only i586? I can't remember, but I think they were all i686. But in the unlikely event they were i586-based, that is why it crashed and burned for you. Too bad. I was hoping to get some impression of how it would run on my old 200 MHz Pentium Pro. Anybody else try on a slower machine like that?

Re:Oh well (1)

Surye (580125) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314864)

It is a i686, I thought of that too. I may try it on an extra desktop, but that was the only machine I had a reason not to use gentoo on. I'll just put Debian Cid on there again, it worked like a charm before.

Re:Oh well (5, Informative)

sparcnut (775902) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314899)

Were the old 350Mhz celerons considered i686 or only i586? I can't remember, but I think they were all i686. But in the unlikely event they were i586-based, that is why it crashed and burned for you. Too bad. I was hoping to get some impression of how it would run on my old 200 MHz Pentium Pro. Anybody else try on a slower machine like that?

Celerons are all i686 class as are Pentium Pros and Pentium IIs. Pentiums and Pentium-MMXs are i586.

I had Slackware 9.0 running on a P2-233 with 64M RAM a couple years ago and it was reasonably fast, even running Mozilla 1.4. Expect a PPro-200 to be the same or slightly better because the PPro's L2 cache is clocked twice as fast as on the P2. Slack 9.0 is mostly optimized from i386 to i586 depending on the packages, so expect Yoper to be _much_ faster.

I'd say it would be manageable for email, web browsing, and that kind of thing but not much more. It'd make a real nice X terminal if you have some bigger boxes on a 100mbit network.

real time PP200 report (1)

zogger (617870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315388)

This machine I am on is a 200PP and I'm running gnome desktop on FC2 with 224 megs ram just fine. It's a dual CPU mobo but I only have one processor currently (weird one to find used), so I imagine it would run better with the other CPU installed and maxing the ram out. Only issue I finally ran into was installation, up to FC1 starting with RH 7.1 the graphical installer worked, this time I was forced to text based, but after that, it just works.

Currently have moz suite with 21 tabs open (I'm a news and forum junky, yeh),usually not that many though, usually around a dozen, the email is open, running xmms on a low bit rate live talk radio stream,it's fine, got one terminal window running, weather applet, yada yada. Not the most powerful or fast experience, but eminently tolerable. I don't know if broadband would help much, probably, stuck on rural dialup for now. As for apps, I admit open office is teh sux on this thing so I don't install it anymore, and mplayer is mostly unusable, in fact I'll probably not install it when FC3 is released. Xine is so-so but usable. And I know I could pop open a few more apps without much of a loss like irc, etc. I am pretty impressed with linux ability to multi task on lower quality machines, near as I can see, RAM is lots more important than CPU, when I added that last stick of 128 it made it useable, before that, nope. I got a max of 512 I can install but finding antique ram that's affordable ain't happening.

Just checked, mashed reload on a few tabs and opened system monitor, CPU is running at around 40%, RAM is using 165 megs and 99 in swap.

I fooled around with hdparm before but it really didn't amount to much in the way of noticeable difference, of course that could be me not doing it correctly I admit.

OK, not loading tabs and just idling, it dropped to hovering around 20% CPU, 161 RAM and swap went up a scosh to 103 megs for some reason.

and there ya go for a PP200 (IBM box) report

Re:Oh well (3, Interesting)

FlipmodePlaya (719010) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314732)

In the interview he stated that a LiveCD version is planned, so we will all have an easy way to see if it is appropriate for our systems.

Thought Police. (5, Funny)

starphish (256015) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314615)

"Right now I am with IBM, and in my spare time I work on Yoper."

Watch out. IBM might own your thoughts. Make sure you don't think about Yoper at work.

Re:Thought Police. (4, Interesting)

DriedClexler (814907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314700)

They actually might start doing that. If you tangibly support such a project that goes contrary to IBM's interest, they could fire or even sue you. Happened to a friend of mine (not at IBM). Tread lightly.

Re:Thought Police. (1)

lakeland (218447) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314832)

Did you check which country he was from? Not all countries have stupid IP laws you know...

Re:Thought Police. (1)

AchilleTalon (540925) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314900)

No matter which country he is from, we are just talking about the contract he signed with IBM the day he was hired. Since I worked for IBM in the past, I think I can told you this contract is much restrictive in this specific field and I was told (ok, ok, being told is not really authoritative) the contracts are now even more restrictive. We I was hired a long time ago by IBM, there were so much less opportunities to write code and think about IT business off-hours, in fact, it was just expensive to enter the business wrt of today.

Bottom line, I would not be surprised at all his work is actually owned by IBM.

Re:Thought Police. (2, Informative)

lakeland (218447) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314998)

No. US contract law is very different to contract law in other countries. Outside the land of the free we have these things called 'inalienable rights', and no contract may interfere with them. For instance, no contract can say 'you may not have children while employed here', or 'you may not work for a compeditor after you leave', or 'we own what you produce in your free time'.

Any contract stupid enough to interfere with his free time would be thrown out of court within minutes, and IBM forced to pay all of his costs, as well as damages. I believe you don't have laws allowing the judge to do that in America either.

Re:Thought Police. (1)

strider44 (650833) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315140)

Isn't he a New Zealander? If that's the case then yes, IBM would have absolutely no rights to what he does in his spare time.

Re:Thought Police. (1)

AchilleTalon (540925) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315335)

I was not talking about the US contract, my fault I should have specified it in the first place it was a contract signed in Canada.

So, that's nice to hear somewhere else there is better laws to protect employees than here. I was a little bit mixed up by your comment since you were talking about IP laws.

So, what would happen in a case where the employee will got an idea for a super-gizmo because he was working at IBM (or any other company) and decided to develop the super-gizmo on his spare time, but wasn't he an employee at this company he never ever had the idea? And what if it's not an employee, but an employee of a sub-contractor?

I am asking because these are real-life situations were I actually saw and in some cases signed contracts to cover these situations. Would the contract clauses be invalidated by a competent court?

Re:Thought Police. (4, Informative)

zaxios (776027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314818)

Watch out. IBM might own your thoughts. Make sure you don't think about Yoper at work.

Just to be safe, don't think at work at all. If you didn't catch the parent's comment, it was a reference to this travesty [slashdot.org]. In this case, offtopic + insightful = funny.

This guy is an idiot (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314617)

Mod me flamebait or troll if you must but his ego is way out there.

Re:This guy is an idiot (2, Insightful)

jr87 (653146) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314943)

[AG] It is not rocket science and if one has the know-how, one could tweak their Gentoo, LFS, or even Debian system to be like Yoper. You would probably spend weeks/months doing it, but after this long, possibly frustrating road, you would get something like Yoper. But instead of a week-long struggle, you can have Yoper ready within 10 to 15 minutes,which to many people is more important than a steep, frustrating learning curve. Some of the "secrets" of turning your distro into Your Operating System are:

yeah...this kinda did it for me. Weeks and months? has he ever tried prelinking..was pretty quick and painless for me. thanks to the nice guide [gentoo.org]

Re:This guy is an idiot (3, Insightful)

xsecrets (560261) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315146)

Well I guess you missed the part right before that where he listed like 5 other things than prelinking, and yes some of those other items can take quite some time.

Re:This guy is an idiot (2, Informative)

GreyPoopon (411036) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315387)

Weeks and months? has he ever tried prelinking..was pretty quick and painless for me. thanks to the nice guide [gentoo.org]

Not only has he tried prelinking, but he has tried (among other things) applying performance-related patches, stripping the binaries and ignoring what ./configure finds and instead only including objects upon which each package is truly dependant. I think that pretty much justifies the weeks to months timeframe listed.

Wasted Time (0, Troll)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315236)

Yes indeed. And what is the purpose of this distro? Is he doing because he is very smart and simply wants to build his own? Does it serve any specialized purpose for which no other distro meets the need? Or, is it simply a "vanity" distro that only serves to muddy the waters of compatibility to further alienate non-Linux OS users? Another fucking distro is not what we need.

This guy should donate his time to another Linux distro in search of purpose, most of which have been mentioned here. Or better yet, look into a much more solid OS, OpenBSD...

Re:Wasted Time (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315311)

Yoper can take and use any package for any distro out there. Oh, and bsd is dead, and change your nick, you sound like a TERRORIST!

Re:This guy is an idiot (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315399)

I think your ego is way out there .... what is the problem with what he says. He sure deserves some credit for such a successful distro, doesn't he?

but diden't I hear OSX was going to kill Linux? (0, Troll)

adaminnj (712407) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314618)

I'm sure I saw something here about OSX going to kill linux so whats all the Hubb bubb about a ppc linux distro?

http://www.wejher.pl/mpx/pic/apple-mac10a-linux.jp g

I dont belive that will happen but that's my 2 cents

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get a free account Now!

Re:but diden't I hear OSX was going to kill Linux? (1, Offtopic)

adaminnj (712407) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314883)

OUCH that's the last time I try to be funny! this Karma thing is new to me.

Support Free Trade Campus [freetradecampus.org]
get a free account Now!

Yoper (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314646)

Yet Onother Phucking Elitist distRo

Re:Yoper (0, Offtopic)

starphish (256015) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314667)

Could't think of anything for "R" eh? ;-)

Re:Yoper (1)

zaxios (776027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314841)

Could't think of anything for "R" eh?

I don't think he could think of anything for "P", either. Maybe trolling's more difficult than it seems... Nah.

Re:Yoper (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315386)

I think the Y in Yoper stands for YOU and Yoper's idea of being Non Elitist. Did you actually read the interview? hmmmmm trolling sure is more difficult than it seems

I've been using it since v2 (4, Informative)

marcushnk (90744) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314664)

and it is quite nice.. and shows some great promise.. the only thing it lacks is the number of contributers.. comon people.. get in while its hot.. add more brains to this project and make it what it should be.

Re:I've been using it since v2 (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314726)

the only thing it lacks is the number of contributers.. comon people.. get in while its hot.. add more brains to this project and make it what it should be.

And a spell checker?

Re:I've been using it since v2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314961)

That's right contribute and make me a package I can update through Synaptic because I don't want to use the command line! Give me the mplayer plugin for instance!

Re:I've been using it since v2 (1)

packeteer (566398) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315192)

becuase that is how to decide what project to contribute to... i personally only like software "while its hot"

Just use Windows, for Pete's sake (-1, Offtopic)

DriedClexler (814907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314668)

One thing a lot of people forget to mention is that Windows has actually been pretty virus resistant per user and per virus sent to infect it. It's a myth that Linux is any better. The only reason Linux doesn't have the same problems is that more tech-oriented people use it and so they already know how to better protect themselves. Windows is an amazingly robust OS if you think about it.

What does all this have to do with the topic? Simple. Don't waste your clout on promoting Linux when there's a perfectly good OS waiting for you already.

Re:Just use Windows, for Pete's sake (1)

prtsoft (702850) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314907)

I'd like to invite YOU to create a virus that will spread like mblaster on linux. It not the user/per virus ratio, its more like, virus/"dumb user and a OS with more holes than swiss cheese" ratio. You would need to be root all the time to have a virus spread like that on a linux system.The average Joe IRunWindows, will see an e-mail saying: "free PR0N!", and think "cool, somebody thought of me, i love spam!" and he will click it. On linux if he does that, it wouldn't matter.

Re:Just use Windows, for Pete's sake (5, Insightful)

slug359 (533109) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315107)

A virus that spreads like like msblaster did is very easily possible, if someone discovered a flaw in a piece of popular software that runs on most linux machines, such as OpenSSH (please don't reply with stuff about openssh running as a user with no access to anywhere on some distros, it can somewhere, or home distros not having openssh, it's an example). You don't need root to connect to an IRC server, and listen for commands to fire packets at people.

Also you mention email worms/trojans, why do you need to be root to start a program that emails everyone in your evolution/kmail/syphleed address books?
All it needs is the ability to connect outwards on port 25 and read your address book, like your email client running as your user does.
It could even drop a DDOS zombie into your home directory that attacks people with your ping binary (forked off multiple times).
Additionally it it could add itself into your bash_profile/x startup file so it starts when you logon.

Yes, it couldn't affect other users on the local machine, but it would still spread and affect the user that opened it, just like running an email virus on Windows as a restricted user would.

Re:Just use Windows, for Pete's sake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315484)

well,I`m not gonna argue about whether or not MS is more robust of a system, but I would be willing to agree its as good as linux. So why would I go with linux still, well that is easy.

1) if I want it free, I can have it free. I don`t have to pay for something as good as a several hundred dollar OS.

2) If I do pay for my operating system, I get good support. I haven`t ever recieved even half ass support for windows except something along the lines of `just try rebooting and lets make sure you didn`t go into setup and change something`

So really you should be asking yourself why you use windows when you get nothing better and have to pay for it. Frankly, if you are going to say you aren`t responsible for failures in your software then you had either better offer me support or not ask for a lot of hard earned money.

This guy rules (4, Insightful)

carambola5 (456983) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314670)

Some of the "secrets" of turning your distro into Your Operating System are:


0.) Performance patches from Con Kolivas, i686 2.6.7 kernel, reiserfs
1.) All original sources, minimal patches. ...

Well, at least we know he isn't some PR person faking being a dev.

Re:This guy rules (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314802)

Well, at least we know he isn't some PR person faking being a dev.
Rather, he's a Dev faking being a PR person

Re:This guy rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315120)

actually, he happens to be a 14 year old boy. Ive just met him and the amount he knows about linux blows my mind.

Re:This guy rules (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315203)

actually, he happens to be a 14 year old boy. Ive just met him and the amount he knows about linux blows my mind.

Umm..

"I hold a Masters in Philosophy of Logic,and have worked for ISPs as a system administrator/manager since the dawn of the commercial internet. Linux was my daily bread as an admin since early on, and I am still contracted by companies for work with Linux. Right now I am with IBM, and in my spare time I work on Yoper. Though I have started taking extended holidays more frequently to dedicate myself to work with Yoper."

If this guy is 14 years old, he is some kind of genius.

Re:This guy rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315372)

I think he has a family and kids .. make it 20 years older and you probably get close to it ...

Obligatory (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314701)

Yes, but does it run Linux?

More pointless branching (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314702)

The phrase "united front" mean anything to the linux community?

Re:More pointless branching (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314762)

The phrase "united front" mean anything to the linux community?

No

Re:More pointless branching (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315269)

Yeah. It means "Microsoft".

Oh, wait, I'm sorry -- what was that? Monolithic codebase doesn't work in the context of bored volunteers, as opposed to desperate programmers working for blood money?

Re:More pointless branching (5, Insightful)

Platinum Dragon (34829) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315501)

The phrase "united front" mean anything to the linux community?

Maybe not, but my hackles tend to go up when I hear terms like "unity" and "united front" tossed around, perhaps because they tend to be used by Troktskyites and other vanguardists wanting everyone to follow their way, and only their way.

Yes, I hang around in some fringe circles. Hang around for a moment, this is going somewhere.

An anarchist would be more concerned with solidarity between groups that share common goals--you can have tens, even thousands of different projects and groups, but they work best when sharing ideas and supporting each other instead of each group demanding that everyone else follow behind their glorious leadership.

How might this esoteric political argument apply to software?

I cringe whenever I hear about "the next killer distro that will take over" or silly distro holy wars over Debian vs. Gentoo vs. Mandrake vs. Fedora as "the desktop distro." OTOH, cooperative efforts like freedesktop.org, the Linux Standards Base, and some of the efforts to bridge the KDE and GNOME desktops with common protocols make me smile. In situations like these, software "solidarity" can allow for numerous distributions aimed at different groups of people to work well together because they share common protocols and technologies, interchangeable stuff when possible.

Mind you, this submission bugged the crap out of me, precisely because the submitter came across in a combative, pseudo-underdog fashion that seems intended to bleed mindshare from other distributions in favour of one group's (or individual's) ego, rather than trying to just make a better collection of software or doing one thing better so that others can learn and benefit.

Bah, I'm exhausted, and I'm not sure this made much sense, but there you have it--I think what the real problem facing the FOSS community is false unity versus real solidarity.

I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... (5, Interesting)

zecg (521666) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314703)

...being valued based on how 1337 they are or what other distribution they have spawned from and how politically correct its roots are re: OS ideology.

Modern distribution should focus on a system for upgrading / installing which handles dependencies well, a base of hand-picked packages covering as many functions with quality software, making the installation process as easy and transparent as possible, building a community and encouraging its members to provide well-written documentation and lobbying with hardware vendors for open drivers (e.g. ATI).

Also, some professional-quality design work for the website and visual presentation wouldn't hurt.

Most everyone is going to use Linux in another 10 years (barring a totalitarian world government which bans it as a tool of terrorism) - so get on with the program, people.

Re:I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... (1)

cranos (592602) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314825)

Well off you go then, let us know how it works out.

Seriously, if all the people who demanded an easy to use yet just as powerful linux distro while slagging off the rest as being too hard/a big pain in the arse actually sat down and tried to build what they wanted, we could have it by now.

This is the joy of OS, if you don't like what the other guy is doing, take it in a new direction.

Re:I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... (5, Insightful)

dan_sdot (721837) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314853)


Seriously, if all the people who demanded an easy to use yet just as powerful linux distro while slagging off the rest as being too hard/a big pain in the arse actually sat down and tried to build what they wanted, we could have it by now.
I don't think that he was saying this "this distro sucks."
I think was he was saying was: "Who gives a crap?"
So somebody created a new distro, wow, thats special. And what does this have to offer? Exactly what he was saying, that it super 1337. These stories come out every so often, and the /. hive mind pays the distro homage, but the thing doesn't really offer what linux really needs.

Re:I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... (1)

William Baric (256345) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315441)

In what way linux distros are more "powerful" than say Windows? What is so special about Linux? If you mean that Linux is hard to use because it's powerful, sorry but linux is not more powerful than other operating systems.

I can't even remember all distributions I tried for the past 6 years, but they all sucked. So I guess I should "sat down and tried to build what I want", right? Well, even at full time, I alone couldn't build a whole operating system.

Then build parts to add to "Linux"? No, because I think Linux is a waste of time. Don't get me wrong... I use it, I install servers, I agree that sometimes it can do some things better than Windows, but it doesn't change the fact that I don't like Linux (btw, I don't like Windows either). I think Linux "philosophy" is wrong in about every way.

Then start a new project? Well, I'm thinking about it a lot of time. The problem is I know nobody (worthy enough) will join the project unless I create a significant part of it first... and unfortunately, I don't have the time to do it (I have to work to pay the bills). I did try to search for a good OS project, but everything I found was about implementing another Unix. Unix should be dead by now!

So tell me... What should I do?

What distros need to do... (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314887)

Yoper sounds neat; and to be honest, all the modern Linux distros I've tried (Mandrake, Suse, Knoppix) work out of the box as long as you're content to use whatever is included in the initial installation.

However, as a desktop OS, there are three things every user needs that no distro provides yet:

1. Easy installation of any Linux software. Don't give me RPM-hell, dependency hell, command-line compiling, proprietary click-n-run depositories, or any other excuses. Only the Mac does it right: you drag the icon to your Applications folder. Voilà. The first distro to accomplish this will be king.

2. Simple, centralized, user-friendly control panels for *everything*, with smart defaults. Why does Mandrake, arguably the most desktop-ready distro, still have printer settings in PrinterDrake, printer settings in the KDE control center, and another panel full of printer settings in the KDE menu?

3. Better support for basic peripherals, like printers and scanners. It's tough shopping for printers at Staples when you know that nothing on the shelf is likely to work.

I'm not saying I have the solutions, but these are major problems that all regular computer users have when grappling with Linux.

Re:What distros need to do... (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314968)

Only the Mac does it right: you drag the icon to your Applications folder. Voilà. The first distro to accomplish this will be king.

Ah, so the first distro who becomes a hardware maker with rock solid control over computer configurations so that every machine looks exactly like every other machine will be king.

Why does Mandrake, arguably the most desktop-ready distro, still have printer settings in PrinterDrake, printer settings in the KDE control center, and another panel full of printer settings in the KDE menu?

Meanwhile, their crack team of software developers will rewrite every application so that they all use the exact same interfaces.

Better support for basic peripherals

While their stealth ninjas will rappel down from Lexmark's skylight by moonlight and steal the secret implementation plans for the top secret drivers.

You may be saying you don't have solutions, but these ARE the solutions.

Re:What distros need to do... (1)

bob65 (590395) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315182)

Easy installation of any Linux software. Don't give me RPM-hell, dependency hell, command-line compiling, proprietary click-n-run depositories, or any other excuses. Only the Mac does it right: you drag the icon to your Applications folder. Voilà. The first distro to accomplish this will be king.

That's a very hard thing to do. The closest most distros have come is custom software repositories to serve packages in the right format for their distro. But as long as there is more than one linux, this problem will remain. It requires more then just a distro to solve this problem - arguably, apt repositories or emerge or similar already provide a solution from the distro's perspective. The other parts of the solution are not under the distro's control.

Re:What distros need to do... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315278)

" The closest most distros have come is custom software repositories to serve packages in the right format for their distro. But as long as there is more than one linux, this problem will remain."

Perhaps - but if you had a distro that:

1. Used binary packages with all libraries and dependencies included, à la Mac OS X.

2. Kept user-installed apps in an accessible Applications directory, represented like a single icon (again, like the Mac).

3. Was smart enough to compile and build such packages if an RPM or tarball was dragged to the Applications folder. ...then you would have a distro that could conquer Windows. Difficult to do? Undoubtedly. Worth doing? I think so.

And before anyone tells me to "do it myself" or accuses me of not actively participating in the open source world, I do support the best way I can - I buy open source products like Mandrake and Suse, in the hopes that one of them will build a Great Linux Distro one day.

For now, Linux seems to be taking the worst of Unix and the worst of Windows, mixing in some innovative but inelegant solutions, and pronouncing it a desktop OS. Look at who did it right - Apple - and go from there.

Re:What distros need to do... (1)

arose (644256) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315450)

Used binary packages with all libraries and dependencies included, à la Mac OS X.
Ugh. Imagine a security hole in zlib. Case closed.

Re:What distros need to do... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315515)

zlib is already statically linked everywhere, so what would be the difference?

Besides, OSX apps do not include ALL libraries -- quite a few are part of the operating environment.

Re:What distros need to do... (1)

Trejkaz (615352) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315221)

The main issue here is that for "any Linux software" to work, you either need to statically compile it up-front, or you need all the right versions of all dependencies... or you compile it from source.

But I'm hoping that something like GoboLinux eventually ends up with your "easy installation" paradigm.

At the moment, a set of gobo scripts can fairly easily any app which uses the familiar "./configure && make && make install" mechanism. Applications once installed end up in directories by themselves in the application directory. The only real things missing here are (1) ability to more easily put things wherever you want, instead of in just that one directory, and (2) a quick drag and drop feature which runs the scripts when you drag the .tar.gz into that directory.

Where it falls down is that not everyone uses autoconf, because some people have started to realise that it sucks dick. I would be interested to hear ideas of how things could be properly bundled to work on multiple operating systems, complete with their own instructions for installation. Perhaps store ebuilds inside the tarball?

Re:I'm a bit sick of Linux distributions... (1)

chris_mahan (256577) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314988)

>Most everyone is going to use Linux in another 10 years...

I'd settle for half in 5 years. Then people wouldn't be able to say: "Everybody uses IE".

On an aside, when I hear that, I say "Oh, you mean IE uses everybody?" It's good for a chuckle...

Totalitarian governments, being paranoid, really want linux so no US govt interference.

woah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314760)

from TFA: my personal mission in life, which is to unseat the Microsoft monopoly

hey buddy, the peanut gallery wishes you the best of luck ;)

umm...slackware? (1)

flamesrock (802165) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314927)

Why choose "yoper" when you have the almighty slackware?! [i]the only thing it lacks is the number of contributers.. comon people.. get in while its hot.. add more brains to this project and make it what it should be.[/i] I've got a better idea: Move the yoper brains over to another distro with similar goals (ie, Ubuntu)

Re:umm...slackware? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315305)

why because nothing is allmighty and if you would have tried Yoper you would certainly know that .... troll troll

Too Funny (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314934)

There's a Google text ad next to the article on linuxforums for the following:
Linux Comparison

Get The Facts: Windows vs. Linux.
Read The Independent Analysis Now.
www.microsoft.com
So let me get this right: if I click on the ad linuxforums gets a dollar or so from Google via MS? The only thing better would be a SCO ad.

Time to throw an extra angle on the /. effect. =)

Re:Too Funny (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314974)

You won't do it.

You're too afraid of the FACTS within.

Danger! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315205)

Yoper "is not" a secure distro, use with care! The /etc/bashrc permissions on a default install are 777 (read,write,exec) which means a user can prevent the system from booting properly if he/she chooses to do so. Dont get me wrong, the latest release is a nice distro, just needs to be cleaned up is all.

Slashdotted... (2, Insightful)

dan_sdot (721837) | more than 9 years ago | (#10314939)

Wow. The yoper site is already slashdotted. You would think that they would try to beef up their site before putting it on Slashdot. Where do they think they are going to get most of their users?
I don't think that this is leaving a very good impression.

Re:Slashdotted... (4, Funny)

erikharrison (633719) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315006)

Yes, it's totally reasonable for someone to beef up a server in anticipation of a third party putting a link up on slashdot. This is because Yoper stands for I CAN SEE THE FUTURE AND ANTICIPATE THE ACTIONS OF ANONYMOUS THIRD PARTIES![*]

*This acronym is not english of course.

Re:Slashdotted... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315214)

You scking troll. you have not even one single clue on how much a server costs. Yoper is done by one guy and his pocket. So go and give him money or shut up!

Yoper is free and rocks. I love it and all you people slagging other distros off are just good for M$ FUD but a shame to the community as a whole. Go and work for M$. They deserve people like you

Yoper? Why not Gnufag 1.0? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10314995)

Yoper? Gentoo? Were most Linux distributions named by flaming faggots? I mean, I am not a homophobe (as long as you flamers keep the FUCK away from me!); I mean, if smoking dick is your thing have at it, faggots! But I don't want MY sexuality called into question when somebody sees a Linux boot prompt on my workstation.

Fuckin' QUEERS!

Kinda like Linspire... (4, Interesting)

superrcat (815508) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315027)

with them ripping off icons and interface cues from Mac OS X. I wonder how much longer their site will be around seeing that they are running a trial version of IPB Portal. Let me pull out my venture capitalist checkbook!

Debian is the future (-1, Troll)

Frequanaut (135988) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315064)

Well, maybe not debian proper, but debian derived distros such as knoppix and ubuntu are it. period.

Sorry, the games over now. Everything else will fade and debian and it's derived distros are handle every_single_complaint I've ever had.

Re:Debian is the future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315188)

Not every complaint of mine.

Stable - so far out of date it's not even funny. Useless for me.

Testing - never used it, the software is still too far out of date for my tastes.

Unstable - up-to-date software, broken constantly. When I last tried it they updated KDE... and it wouldn't run after I did an apt-get. Then there was the famous break-in. After two months of a broken KDE I tossed Debian in the trash, where it belongs.

I've been using Gentoo ever since. It has the up-to-date software of unstable, but with the testing of stable. Gentoo rocks!

Re:Debian is the future (1)

Trejkaz (615352) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315238)

Neat, so Debian derivatives now have the ability to compile applications without GNOME support?

Re:Debian is the future (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315290)

hahahahahaha debian ain't it since it is the slowest distro on the planet! hahahahaha very funny hahahaha

Re:Debian is the future (4, Interesting)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315392)

From three years ago.

"Red Hat is the future. Well, maybe not Red Hat proper, but Red Hat derived distros such as whatever are it. period. Sorry, the games over now. Everything else will fade and Red Hat and it's derived distros are handle every_single_complaint I've ever had."

Sounds silly now.

Re:Debian is the future (3, Informative)

AhaIndia (725879) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315449)

Here is my experience.... I started using Libranet (a debian derivative) which had some very good reviews. After some upgrade cycles my system just became more and more debian and less Libranet.
Debian is good and number of packges are huge... but then I tried Yoper .... Yoper is way faster than any other distro ... it gives you all you need to start using your destop for your work ....
The packages in Yoper repository are less but all are complied with usual Yoper optimization turned on.. so If I install any package from Yoper repository it wont slow my system down....
Yoper comes with KDE desktop by default... I installed gnome from Yoper repositories (apt-get install Ygnome) just for fun ... and wow .. it was the fastest Gnome desktop I had ever used....
I think Yoper has great future if the team somehow manages to maintain the quality and increase the number of packages available...

Yoper Again? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315298)

Considering that the Yoper people have already told us what they think of us and that we are not their target market, I'm not sure why we're discussing Yoper again...
yoper (site admin): Why bother to be a rude and brainless chicken. Stay away. We do not need you. It might not be Your OS. This is freedom of choice. We convert businesses. We save businesses. You are obviously not a business or in any way our target market. We are a business.


We compiled, tested, packaged, compiled, tested, packaged, compiled, tested, packaged. Until one of you actually tries it how can you even start talking. It is a complete new Linux not based on anything else, targetting the i686 business market. You nerds arenot our business. You nerds are no ones business and this is the reason why as a community we fail to fight M$ properly. After years of dev you could have actually given it an objective go instead of slagging it off and blindly comparing it to slackware only because it was posted on /. in the same article as slackware. Ignorance is bliss. Stay in your matrix and stay blind. This is a business and not a charity organization for brainless and gutless chickens that fill a forum up with junk. Stay with your Linux and leave us alone. Business users need us, since they are sick of YOU. We do not need brainless nerds with too much time on their hand. We need businesses who want to save time and money and save their behind from having to hire you.
Of course, maybe they just think if they delete enough of their own forums, that we'll forget & forgive?

Original link was here [yoper.com].

And the forum where the deletion of the original forum was discussed used to be here [yoper.com].

rho

Re:Yoper Again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315328)

Maybe you are as stupid as your memory, but if you talk about "we" you better go and look for a psychiatrist. Yoper rocks and underestimating it and slagging it off is exactly why that comment you cannot forget is actually appropriate.

Fight between distros is stupid exactly what Andreas said.

You are an ignorant that can only think what he reads and not think what he aquires on knowledge ... I pitty you for dragging up this old story .... you are sure a sad troll

Re:Yoper Again? (1)

Dcnjoe60 (682885) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315337)

Everytime there is a a /. article about Yoper, you post the same basic message. I don't know who did what to hurt you, but don't you think it's time to grow up and move on?

Re:Yoper Again? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315356)

I totally agree with you all. dragging up old postings is kind of strange .... it seems to me that Yoper has grown and that people can make mistakes. I know for a fact I do plenty ..... and I am kind of sure that I am not the only one :D

bittorrent (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315329)

http://apt.yoper.com/torrent/yoper.torrent

Danger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315380)

Yoper is not a secure distro! watch out for the /etc/bashrc file. Permissions are set to (read,write,exec) 777 for all users.. Do some nasty stuff in there and you can prevent the system from booting correctly. Use with care!

Re:Danger (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315404)

You are soooooooo wrong. Yoper uses the /etc/bashrc from gentoo and it is set as

# 077 would be more secure, but 022 is generally quite realistic
umask 022

so what exactly is your problem FUD meister

Yooper Linux (1)

JoshRoss (88988) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315417)

It would come with beer brewing software, roadkill, country western Ogg Vorbi, pickup truck stickers, and GNU Deer Hunter(tm).

most obvious astroturfing ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315424)

I'm reading the comments here, and every time anybody says anything negative about Yoper an Anonymous Coward who sounds remarkably like the Yoper guy replies.

Re:most obvious astroturfing ever (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10315446)

so .. all Anonymous Cowards in here are the Yoper guy. New consiparcy theory .... right ... maybe you think I am the Yoper guy too ... ;)

One Question (0, Flamebait)

ThoreauHD (213527) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315444)

I don't use Yoper, but I'm just trying to figure out something from the responses listed below.

Does anyone here have anything intelligent to say about the topic aka Yoper?

Are you jerkweeds bored, retarded, or just lacking in experiencial knowledge as a whole. I'd like to hear some details about this distro, and not how gay your debian/slackware/gentoo/wtfever 5 years to compile POS OS is. Please advise.

Anyone? Anyone?

Misunderstood Yoper... (1)

nickgrieve (87668) | more than 9 years ago | (#10315495)

So its Your Operating System,.. Here I was thinking it was Yet Another Operating System...
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