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Current Crop Of HDTV Recorders Compared

timothy posted more than 10 years ago | from the always-three-steps-behind dept.

Television 177

rbrander links to this "nice review of all the HDTV Recorders from the Washington Post: DirecTV's based on the TiVo wins for best interface, but Dish Network's gets a few nods. There's also a nice swipe ('...spectacularly stupid decision') at JVC's for allowing only (copy-protected) Firewire input to the one HDTV tape recorder on the market."

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some more gmail invites for you all (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320068)

Re:some more gmail invites for you all (-1, Offtopic)

steve6534 (809539) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320141)

Don't click on the bogus invites !!!!!!!!!

Re:some more gmail invites for you all (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320169)

Why? The invite worked for me and I just registered an account.

Re:some more gmail invites for you all (1)

John_Allen_Mohammed (811050) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320179)

Don't click on the bogus invites !!!!!!!!!

Why not ?

Re:some more gmail invites for you all (2, Informative)

frisbeeforfido (800724) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320243)

Look at the actual URL, not the one displayed.

3dinfo@maficstudios goto hell ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320569)

Your email is 3dinfo@maficstudios.com so it seems. Goto hell MF.

Re:3dinfo@maficstudios goto hell ! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320605)

Since when is that my email address?

frist posty (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320072)

yeah baby!

Fist Sport! (1)

ringbarer (545020) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320074)

HDTV is worshipped by Linux perverts as the new way of delivering high quality child pornography to their homes. However, they steadfastly refuse to pay a penny for it.

What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (3, Interesting)

Frac (27516) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320094)

I've recently built myself a nice HTPC with two tuners (Hauppauge PVR-250), and I'm quite happy with it. I intend to move onto HDTV capture cards once the most popular PVR software packages (SageTV, Beyond TV) supports it.

Does anyone know what the state of the HDTV capture cards for PC looks like right now? Obviously, hardware encoding and picture quality is key...

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (5, Informative)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320161)

HDTV capture cards have a slight advantage over typical TV capture cards because they don't have to digitize anything from analog, they just have to remember the bitstream they were fed from the channel.

Their disadvantage is that HDTV can be quite the high-bandwidth application, and that means the limitations of the PCI bus, and even the AGP connection can sometimes cause quality loss. PCI Express seems to be the solution to that in the pipeline, and that's most likely what the mainstream vendors are waiting for. An HD card on the market today has to be labeled as an "early adopter" model.

On the other hand, maybe this is a technology that you want to be an early adopter of to avoid cards that end up getting crippled by "broadcast flag" laws.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (2, Informative)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320539)

What about 64 bit and/or 66MHz PCI? That's available on many machines today. In fact I have two machines with 64 bit PCI in my house, and they're both PCs. My Yosemite Rev 1 G3 had both 64 bit and 66MHz, but not in the same slot.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (3, Informative)

cft_128 (650084) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320560)

Their disadvantage is that HDTV can be quite the high-bandwidth application, and that means the limitations of the PCI bus, and even the AGP connection can sometimes cause quality loss.

Uncompressed HDTV could cause those problems sure, but compressed streams (what you would be recording) are about 19.2Mb/s, a far cry from the theoretical cap of PCI. The AGP slot should be able to handle the uncompressed stream fine for display, after all it is only 1280x720 @ 60hz or 1920x1080 @ 30hz (or rather 1920x540@60hz) and most graphics card can exceed that by quite a bit (right now I'm at 1600x1200 @ 85hz on an old laptop).

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (3, Informative)

Chris Carollo (251937) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320575)

Their disadvantage is that HDTV can be quite the high-bandwidth application, and that means the limitations of the PCI bus, and even the AGP connection can sometimes cause quality loss.
Not that I've ever experienced and I've been using a HiPix for years. HD isn't that high-bandwidth...it's only 19.2Mb/s, or 2.4MB/s. The standard 33Mhz PCI bus spec is for 133MB/s so there's plenty of headroom there.

Far more of a concern is how fast you can write those bits to disk, though even there I've never had a problem.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (2, Informative)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320170)

There are a handful of HDTV cards out there, I saw ATI's HDTV-Wonder in action and it looked alright. I'm not recommending ATi, they make complete dogshit these days - so if their product seems to perform acceptably, the competition must really kick ass.

The problem with trying to build an HTPC with HDTV powers, as I see it, is getting component output to the TV, or finding a TV with RGBS input (VGA plugs like your monitor). Scan converters from VGAHDTV are expensive and the picutre looks like ass.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (2, Informative)

GoRK (10018) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320371)

HDTV output to a PC is really quite easy if you simply make it a requirement when you are shopping for your TV. Tons of tv's have DVI-D inputs or RGBS on them, and they really arent more expensive than the tv's that don't. Just get one of these, and then, with some tweaking, pretty much any modern video card can be made to drive them. Apps such as powerstrip, et. al. make this pretty simple.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (1)

ePhil_One (634771) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320186)

Obviously, hardware encoding and picture quality is key...

Um, No.

HDTV is a digital signal, all you need to do is record that signal to the hard drive.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (1)

Frac (27516) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320589)

*smacks my forehead*

You're right.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (2, Informative)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320208)

I've got two such cards, one is Linux only [pchdtv.com] and the other is Windows only [digitalconnection.com] . But since they both save the raw bitstream coming from over the air, files can be played back from both cards without modification.

They're in separate systems and have access via NFS and SMB to a RAID array to save/playback all programming.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320325)

Can you give us your thoughts on both of the cards and how well they work?

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (4, Informative)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320405)

Both cards work admirably at tuning ATSC signals, capturing the bitstream, and saving them to disk.

For playback, the MyHD card includes an MPEG decoder and component, VGA, and DVI output (as an option), so your PC can plug right into your HDTV. It can playback to a PC monitor, too. The driver and application are pretty well polished and easy to use. It comes with an I/R remote and a remote sensor that plugs into a serial port so you can keep your PC and keyboard hidden away and control card functions from the remote. It will also playback DVDs as well as DVD content ripped to hard disk.

The The pcHDTV card relies on software applications (Xine) to decode and playback. The driver is enormously stable in my experience. Playing back content relies on correct configuration of Xine, the mpeg decoder, the program stream demultiplexor, and so forth. Not too hard for more experienced users.

In my setup there's a Linux box that's responsible for recording only and a Windows box for playback only.

Soon to be illegal ... (4, Informative)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320248)

Oh and don't forget that current HDTV capture cards [eff.org] will be illegal on 2005.7.1. Buy 'em now while you can. Future models will have to support DRM via a broadcast flag. :-(

Re:Soon to be illegal ... (2, Funny)

yeremein (678037) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320561)

Future models will have to support DRM via a broadcast flag. :-(

Hopefully the broadcast flag will prove every bit as effective as CSS.

Myth TV (2, Informative)

McFly69 (603543) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320564)

Myth TV (http://www.mythtv.org/)is the best software out there to use under BSD. Wendey Seltzer actually used the program and make it fully functional. on here website you have full directions, drivers and programs to do it. http://wendy.seltzer.org/mythtv/ I myself am looking this for an option to build my own with a DVD recorder. IF serveral people are interested in this kind of project let me know, maybe we can share insight and idea.

Re:Over The Air vs Cable/Satellite (1)

chill (34294) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320319)

Most, if not ALL HDTV recorders for PCs support only over-the-air broadcasts, and not QAM encoded. Cable and Satellite use QAM encoding, meaning you aren't going to record unless you have an antenna.

Re:Over The Air vs Cable/Satellite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320411)

Satellite, at least DirecTV, does not use QAM.

Re:Over The Air vs Cable/Satellite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320522)

I recently bought an HD tuner card made by DVico. I am fairly happy with it. The new version of the software is much easier to use. They now also have a QAM version available.

Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (1)

SlashMaster (62630) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320337)

My home theatre research webpage might be of value here (sorry, temporarily down today yet due to ISP changing IP :(

http://timschoenfelder.com/htpc.html [timschoenfelder.com] timschoenfelde r.com/htpc.html

Its a collection of links to howtos, forums, and software(windows/linux/xbox/etc OSs) for anyone interested in building a home theatre PC.

Sasem USB 2.0 onAir HDTV (1)

Jackson_Ash (571413) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320566)

http://www.usbhdtv.com/ [usbhdtv.com]

You can buy one in the US at:

http://www.copperbox.com/lite/sasem.php/ [copperbox.com]

Avsforum thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&t hreadid=373490&highlight=sasem/ [avsforum.com]

For those that don't have a free PCI slot, this is the way to go. Once the highest of powers grants me permission, I'll be grabbing one myself.

JA

DirecTV really needs to get with it. (2, Insightful)

ARRRLovin (807926) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320110)

The current crop of Standalone Tivo's blow the DirecTiVo away performance wise. The features of the DirecTiVo's can't be beat, but those that are used to the standard Series2 TiVo (or even the Series1) are growing tired of the dismal menu performance of the DirecTivo. All of this can be solved quite easily.......in software. Update those TiVo's DirecTV!

Re:DirecTV really needs to get with it. (5, Informative)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320229)

A codebase split seems to have happened when the DirecTiVo units officially took on the name of "DirecTV DVR with TiVo service" and the monthly subscription price got halved from $9.95 to $4.95. Near that time, the fees for standalone TiVos moved upwards from $9.95 to $12.95...

And at that point the DirecTV code froze, while development for the standalone TiVos continued. Apparently, DirecTV now must pay for any new features they want added to the DirecTV DVRs, meanwhile TiVo continued to push its latest stuff out for free to their direct subscribers. All of the things that a standard Series 2 TiVo can do that a Series 2 DirecTV DVR cannot were added after that point in time.

Re:DirecTV really needs to get with it. (1, Informative)

arazor (55656) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320415)

FYI the series 2 DirecTivo's maybe even the HD ones Im not sure about that part can be "hacked" to run the newer Tivo software and other coolness. Just google to find the relavent instructions. of course doing all that voids warrantee etc...

Re:DirecTV really needs to get with it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320527)

Interesting theory. Makes a certain amount of sense and could be why DirecTV is going to be rolling their own Tivo-like device in the future...

What about the SA8000HD (2, Interesting)

Blahzay (564823) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320114)

Didn't the title say the review was of ALL the HD recorders available? The Scientific Atlanta 8000HD may not be the best, but it certainly works.

Re:What about the SA8000HD (2, Informative)

Matrix_X (145593) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320193)

I just got the SA8000HD box about a week ago. It's better than I thought but still has many glitches. 32megs of ram/16 video ram doesn't seem like enough, especially when it has a hard time keeping up with the HD streams that come in from Time Warner Cable.

But, I have to say, it's nice to be able to record HD shows and the technology is only going to get better.

Oh, and 5 bucks a month for the box isn't too bad either...... considering DirectTivo is around 1000.

Re:What about the SA8000HD (3, Informative)

Mondoz (672060) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320329)

After having a Tivo for the past year, using this box feels like being stabbed in the face...

You can't search for shows very easily, if at all...
The series subscription interface is horribly featureless...
It doesn't give a darn about what you like, and certainly won't offer any suggestions of what you might like.

Configuration menus are strewn about several different sections, accessable from lots of specalized buttons. TiVo's interface and menus are like a massage by comparison.

If only the Tivo would record HD from cable.

I do like having the cable box, HD convertor, and DVR in one single box, though.

But for the time being, I'm going to let TiVo record to its heart's content.
IMO, nothing will ever surpass TiVo in perfection of interface...
TiVo 4 evar!!!

Washington Post likes TiVo? (-1, Redundant)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320117)

I take back everything bad I've ever said about TiVo!

I for one can't wait to start paying a monthly fee for TV listings and have a device phone home for me nightly!

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (3, Interesting)

smackjer (697558) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320277)

Get the lifetime subscription. It's worth it, and you can think of it as part of the hardware cost. Plus, if you decide to sell your box you can expect to recoup the lifetime subscription cost as it transfers with the box.

As far as "phoning home", how else could it get the program listings and software upgrades? Tivo Series 2 supports broadband, if access to a landline is an issue.

I have yet to meet a Tivo user who isn't happy they bought a Tivo.

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (0, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320406)

Well, I don't need program listings, and why the hell should it require software upgrades? It's linux based, right?

I just want a box I can hit record on. I don't watch that much TV, I don't need it to recommmend shows to me.

Hell, I hardly need that. Everything on cable is repeated on a 4 hour loop. Miss tonights South Park? Don't worry, it'll be on again in another hour or so.

They're trying to sell me more than I need, and I'm not buying.

I just want a box that records video digitally, and allows me to archive it somehow, whether it's an ethernet port or DVD-R. And, I want to buy it for under 100 bucks with NO STRINGS ATTACHED.

I have yet to meet a Tivo user who isn't happy they bought a Tivo.

And I haven't met an iPod owner who doesn't think the scroll wheel is anything less than mankinds greatest technological achievement.

But I don't want or need an iPod either since a 20 dollar MP3 CD player does all I require.

I've never met a Harley Davidson owner who thinks that his bike is anything less than the greatest vehicle ever built. Fact is, from a purely technical/mechanical viewpoint, Harleys are tempermental piles of shit that are broken most of the time. But it's a status symbol.

iPod, TiVo, Harleys, Abercrombie and Fitch shirts. I don't need any of 'em.

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

danielobvt (230251) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320623)

Though one may note that for anyone with more than one machine the economics of the choice changed with the new multiple account discount they are offering. If you aleady have one machine, then the logic of buying another machine and getting a Lifetime pass are very questionable ($5 a month vs $300 lifetime cost calls it into doubt)

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1, Troll)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320302)

Congratulations. You have just convinced me to roll my own PVR instead of buying a TiVo. I had forgotten that it contacts the mothership for listings and may upload my viewing choices. While I don't think they're selling that information yet, I have no reason to trust that they won't ever sell that information.

Could somebody point me to a homebrew PVR tutorial?

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

evilmousse (798341) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320424)


um, i'll volunteer my viewing habits
if it helps keep shows like futurama...

-g

doncha wanna be a neilson family anyway?

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

telstar (236404) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320452)

"While I don't think they're selling that information yet, I have no reason to trust that they won't ever sell that information.
  • TiVo has never hidden the fact that they collect and sell aggregated information. Guess what? The shows you watch and like may stay on the air 'cause TiVo reported that people watched it!

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320484)

BUt is my name attached to that? I don't want that, and I can't trust TiVo *not* to sell my name. What's next, spam trying to sell me DVD box sets?

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

ChoGGi (522069) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320657)

he did say aggregated information

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

spectecjr (31235) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320673)

BUt is my name attached to that?

No, and it never has been.

I don't want that, and I can't trust TiVo *not* to sell my name.

I'm surprised by that - especially because, IIRC, TiVo is opt-in.

Why don't you trust them? What reason have they given you not to trust them?

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (2, Informative)

Helios1182 (629010) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320474)

Check out http://www.mythtv.org/ [mythtv.org] . They have some links to how to setup a MythTv.

Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? (1)

jmb295 (760663) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320585)

With the DirecTivo's it is not necessary to connect the phone line. I have 3 at home, and 2 have not been connected to a phone line in over a year. They download the program data from the satellite, but you will not receive any software updates.

is anyone really surprised at this format war? (3, Insightful)

CheechBG (247105) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320120)

I have never seen D-VHS, but I can only imagine that since it is tape, that it has the same fundamental flaws as VHS, the magnetic tape. I don't care if it is digital, if I put my copy of Fear and Loathing in there and play it over and over I can only surmise that it's going to degrade as the heads go over and over the tape. IMHO, Blu-ray is a much more reliable (in comparison, I know) format.

Re:is anyone really surprised at this format war? (1)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320304)

It may have the same flaws, but it also has the same benefits. That is, magnetic heads are cheaper than laser optics.

The main unit itself should be cheaper than a TiVo or BluRay recorder. Just like a VCR is worth about half what a DVD player is today.

Some people don't worry about degradation of the tapes, like me. I don't put in a copy of Fear and Loathing to play over and over. I watch a movie once, and then I've seen it.

BTW, this is different than VHS. It's stored digitally (well so is VHS) but with ECC style error correction, just like a DVD. So the tape can degrade quite a bit before it affects the contents.

Re:is anyone really surprised at this format war? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320532)

I've seen D-VHS in person, on a Samsung DLP screen. It was AMAZING. Far beyond anything I've seen with DVDs. Amazing to the point that there are some people who you don't want to see in that fine of detail. :)

It really is too bad it's still a magnetic tape, though.

Re:is anyone really surprised at this format war? (1)

Gizzmonic (412910) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320636)

DVHS is an awesome archival format. Any DVHS player you buy has an extremely high quality ADC so you can record hours of old VHS tapes onto DVHS-about 9 hours per DVHS at virtually indistinguishable from source copy.

Also, you can go to 169time [169time.com] to get an STB with HD-firewire out. Expensive, but not copyright-crippled at all...not too shabby!

You can record HDTV content on a current Tivo (3, Informative)

SensitiveMale (155605) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320138)

I do it all the time.

Now you do lose the enhanced resolution BUT it does record in widescreen format which is nice for movies over cable.

Re:You can record HDTV content on a current Tivo (2, Funny)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320312)

Right, and you can record normal TV in black and white, but why would you want to? :)

FireWire (5, Interesting)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320145)

FireWire wasn't a stupid decision...it was 5C-protected (copy-protected) FireWire that was a stupid decision.

FireWire was probably the best promise of device interconnectivity to ever exist in recent years. But it has been crippled by several things:

1. Content providers/TV/movie/Hollywood's deathly fear of being able to easily interconnect all devices, including computing equipment, via one perfect, digital connection.

2. A bit due to Apple's early ridiculous licensing and logo requirements to use the "FireWire" name. FireWire is the name that would have taken IEEE-1394 the furthest, but thanks to the early bungling, we're now stuck with "FireWire", "DV", "i.Link", "IEEE-1394", "1394"...what's that sir? Oh, yes, they're all really the same thing.

Imagine having ALL of your entertainment equipment, including your computer, connected digitally via one, simple FireWire cable each, all daisy-chained off one another. All able to control one another when necessary, sending meta-data and device control commands, as well as audio, video, and other data over the wire. No ridiculous bundles of cabling. Everything plug and play. Everything "just works". Even Wireless FireWire (yes, there's a spec). (And yes, FireWire has the bandwidth necessary to handle all this and more.)

That was the promise of FireWire. Instead, we're stuck with final output formats like DVI, and HDCP-protected HDMI, 5C FireWire that virtually nothing supports, and the coming Broadcast Flag.

Oh well. :-(

Re:FireWire (1)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320201)

For some reason my cable company runs everything unencrypted. I can pull anything off firewire, including HBO-HD, etc. I wish my cable box supported playback of external TS files, but I know that will never happen. :)

FireWire products (4, Insightful)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320258)

I forgot to mention...there ARE quite a few products that do contain FireWire: HDTVs, set top boxes, DVD players, digital VCRs, A/V receivers, etc:

http://www.1394ta.org/About/products/consumer_prod ucts.html [1394ta.org]

Additionally, the FCC is mandating that as of July 1, 2005, all digital cable set top boxes MUST include a functional FireWire port [fcc.gov] , and as of April 1, 2004, must provide a set top box with a working FireWire port on customer request. Of course, this doesn't help if content providers choose to encrypt the content.

Here's hoping we can fight the Broadcast Flag [eff.org] . Unfortunately, I can see a future where our kids think that the only way they can watch what they want to watch, when they want to watch it, and on the device they wish to watch it on, is by illegally downloading it from a P2P network, instead of being able to legally record it and move it around THEMSELVES with equipment THEY BOUGHT from a service THEY PAY FOR in their OWN HOMES.

FireWire products-Chicken or the egg? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320773)

"Here's hoping we can fight the Broadcast Flag. Unfortunately, I can see a future where our kids think that the only way they can watch what they want to watch, when they want to watch it, and on the device they wish to watch it on, is by illegally downloading it from a P2P network, instead of being able to legally record it and move it around THEMSELVES with equipment THEY BOUGHT from a service THEY PAY FOR in their OWN HOMES."

So why aren't you yelling at all the pirates who brought about this mess? Nope, Slashdot would rather encourage the kind of behaviour that only makes the situation worse, rather than the behaviour that would make it better (self-discipline for starters).

Re:FireWire (1)

Paulrothrock (685079) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320326)

Imagine having ALL of your entertainment equipment, including your computer, connected digitally via one, simple FireWire cable each, all daisy-chained off one another.

Now imagine buying a $40 repeater [shipitforyou.com] for every 15 feet [homenethelp.com] of cable...

Re:FireWire (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320382)

Just make sure your devices are chained 14.99 feet apart.

Except... (1)

daveschroeder (516195) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320426)

...that in most cases, all of the equipment you'll be connecting will be in one place - presumably, your entertainment center.

And EACH cable can be up to 4.5m (15 ft) long. Most of your cables needn't be longer than 15 inches, much less 15 feet.

Also, IEEE-1394b supports up to 3.2Gbps up to 100m (328 ft) [apple.com] over fiber.

To say nothing of Wireless FireWire... [1394ta.org]

Re:Except... (1)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320789)

This comment isn't to knock you down or anything, but you REALLY do like Firewire don't you? I do as well btw and agree with what you say.

Imagine having ALL of your entertainment equipment (1)

way2trivial (601132) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320358)

Passing virus originated instructions from one another

your computer telling your tivo to erase it's entire harddrive, then record anime manga 3 at two am, because that's what the virus writer thinks you should watch, your vcr ejecting tapes, and your cd jukebox player snapping cd's in half by partilly loading them and then rotating..

yes, the joys of a massively inter-connected motorized hardware would be ever so much more fun than a purely electronic non-motorized one..

Making your own HD-PVR using firewire (3, Informative)

mmmbeer (9963) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320497)

I recently had quite a struggle getting a cable box with a 1394 port on it from my local cable co (BrightHouse Tampa). I had dreams of a pure digital connection from the tuner to the computer, right to file or to my XvMC X session. After finally getting it and connecting it to my computer, and writing a a good chunk of code to get it to talk through the firewire card in my linux box... every channel is either analog or 5C.

Most the channels here in Tampa are analog and there is no MPEG encoder chip on the Scientific Atlanta 3250HD box, so that means nothing comes out of the firewire port for those channels. The rest of the channels are encrypted and flagged as CCI "once", meaning that only hardware that supports 5C can read it and that hardware must respect the "copy only once" intent of the flag. As far as I know, there is no way to decrypt 5C content in software, which leaves the user with unusable transport streams.

I'd still love to work on a pure digital PVR (one that doesn't make several analog->digital->analog->etc convertsions once the signal gets to the box), but firewire definately doesn't further that cause.

Follow up Article (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320146)

over at technews live [technewslive.info] pretty nifty

Bad Moderation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320204)

Since when is a link to another article a troll?

TROLL! NFSW BROWSER POPUPS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320244)

Do not click this link at any costs! It contains some kind of browser hijacking script that pops up like hundreds of goatse/tubgirl/etc popups and basically keeps you from closing it.

We need to find out who keeps posting this crap and turn him in to the feds.. this has to be illegal..

Paw! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320155)

Ya'll get out to the back 40 and harvest that crop of DVR 921s. You know them rains a-coming since my knee be achin'.

Only copy protected? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320159)

The DTheater has encrypyted tapes that can only be played on DTheater (the copy protection) compatible VCRs.

I can record lots of open signals over the Firewire. The lower end one can be found for around $300, but the newer and more expensive ones are made a lot better.

Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (5, Interesting)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320178)

I have a Motorola DCT-6208, the model I think they are referring to in this article that Comcast offers.

Even though the hard drive is only 80GB, and the interface sucks, the thing is virtually free and I don't have to worry about it breaking, hard drive failing, or the eventual obsolescence in less than a year. Anyone shelling out $1000 for the satellite models is a sucker IMO.

I used to be a DirecTV customer and bought a RCA DTC-100 HD tuner on Ebay for $400. I was able to turn around and resell it on Ebay for $350 2 years later, but only because I sold it before the crop of DVRs came out, and because it was a high-demand model. Now, if you are stuck with an obsolete HD Tivo in a year or two, you are pretty much screwed because the new models will be so much better no one will want an older model. Maybe you can sell it to your grandmother though for $100. :)

With cable though, I can keep getting a better box for virtually nothing. The new Motorola DCT-6412 with two tuners and 120GB hard drive is right around the corner, and I will just have to call and setup an appointment to have the tech come in and swap it out.

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320288)

Another thing, the interface problems on the Motorola boxes are all because most cable companies are stuck using the TV Guide/Gemstar software, which is the horrible boxy ad-ridden mess you are used to. My cable company, Armstrong, is stuck contractually with TV Guide for the near future, but would love to move to something else.

However, the DCT cable boxes are generic platforms and can run any software. Some markets are now using the much nicer Pioneer Passport Echo [pioneerdigital.com] software, which I think is much closer to Tivo-land, since you can record entire series with one click, it shows the buffer status, etc. Microsoft also has software for the box in some markets.

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

digerata (516939) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320298)

anyone shelling out $1000 for the satellite models is a sucker IMO.

As stated in the article, if you go with Dish Network, you can do the same as cable and rent the device.

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320362)

No it's not, they corrected the article:


A review of high-definition television recording options in the Aug. 29 Business section incorrectly said that Dish Network's Dish Player-DVR 921 digital video recorder is available for rental. It is available for purchase, and the price is $999.

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320299)

The current round of standard DirecTV TiVos are the same box that a year ago were selling at $299 now selling for $99. The $200 price drop is being funded entirely by DirecTV who assumes that they'll make the money back over the long term out of service subscriptions, and that's why the retailers require that some service be on the box for twelve months or otherwise you owe the retailer the subsidy money they don't get.

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

syates21 (78378) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320300)

Riiiiiight, the HD Tivo owners will be out of luck, except they will have had the best HD recording product available for a couple of years, which will still be working fine (what the HD standard is going to change soon, I think not).

On the other hand, cable owners will get whatever the low-bid hardware vendor was at the time.

To each his own.

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

AGTiny (104967) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320340)

Yeah but consider the market for the current HDTivos: the early adopter/HD nut/AVS Forum/type person. These people are not content with old technology and are always looking to upgrade. What will they do with their obsolete boxes?

Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (1)

Trepidati0n (647966) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320641)

In my area (Rockford, IL), if you call the "cable company" and say you will come and pick it up (the new box that is)...they will usually give you a month for free for saving them the tech time. It never hurts to ask.

In other TiVo news (1)

spudchucker (680073) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320188)

Looks like NetFlix, TiVo, and Time Warner are working on video on demand. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5376581.html -S

DirecTivo (1)

natron 2.0 (615149) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320235)

I have been happy with my DirecTV Tivo (series 2) since I purchased it a year ago. I am still waiting for the price drop on the DirecTV HD models though, but I cannot wait to put my HDTV to the test!

Lets get this out of the way (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320257)

1.) imagine a bewolf cluster of these...
2.) mmmm high definition porn
3.) Generally the problem is that the TV signal is not worth watching.
4.2)Slashdot : Commercials for nerds, it's money that matters.
8. Yes, I should probably learn to count.
2.) Gamers, what about reviewers of *ahem* adult entertainment material?
Laugh, your boss is behind you...

bw

DirecTV HD Tivo HR10-250 (3, Informative)

arazor (55656) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320279)

I agree that the Tivo has the best interface and general coolness. But be aware that there is a very good chance that the HDMI port will not work at all or has to be messed with and even thats not 100%. If you dont believe just check the tivo community forums about this unit http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?s=f81a3d87b7dcd78fda0257b6df286bc6&threadid=1832 03

That said if you do not plan to use the HDMI port by all means get one immediately DirecTV has several HD promotions going on right now and has plans to add a lot of HD programming in 2005 and 2006.

Re:DirecTV HD Tivo HR10-250 (1)

arazor (55656) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320349)

I forgot to mention that I am on my 5th DirecTV HD tivo replacment so I am also speaking from personal experience. Im going to keep getting them to send replacements until I get a working one. For a $1000 piece of equipment you would think they would of done more testing oh well...
This is the TV I am using these units with in case anyone is wondering
Toshiba 46H84

I have the HD Tivo (5, Informative)

mp3zero (306357) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320293)

I know some (read most) people will think I am crazy but I recently purchased the DirecTV HD Tivo. I have had the unit for just over a week now and absolutely love it.

The price: 999.00 (ouch, don't tell my wife)

I have had DirecTV HDTV for about 6 months and really hated not being able to record the shows I like to watch. I found myself using my hacked/upgraded tivo (series 1 non-hd) to watch shows that also are aired in HD simply because I like skipping commercials.

The quality of recorded shows are simply amazing. Especially Disovery HD and movies on HBO-HD. Very nice sound as it keeps the DD 5.1 soundtrack.

Was it worth the 1000.00 I paid for it? Well, I priced out building a similar HTPC (Home theater PC) with 2 HD tuners and 2 OTA tuners and it was more expensive to roll my own. Also, mythTV does not worth well with direct (from what I have read). So I do believe it was worth the 1000.00 considering it does come with a 250gb hard drive (150.00). :) I know I know I know.. justify myself all the way to hell.

Not a stupid decision - an economic decision (4, Informative)

GoRK (10018) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320334)

What the article does not tell you is that the decision to include anything OTHER than a firewire input to the D-VHS VCR would have also required a REALTIME HDTV MPEG2 encoder in the VCR. By "the most popular 3 hdtv interconnects" they are probably talking about Component YUV, Component RGB, and DVI-D -- while these are indeed the most popular interconnects, they transport the already uncompressed video stream. To record them in DVHS format you'd have to recompress the video back to MPEG2, and remux the audio (and ensure sync). This alone would have sent the price of the unit skyrocketing. In addition the decision was not stupid, because as of April 1, 2004, cable companies are required to have the firewire transports on their devices, meaning that the decision for a firewire-only vcr would be fairly standards compliant as well as inexpensive.

The nice thing about firewire transporting this is that the video arrives preencoded in a nice transport stream in full quality. The not-nice thing about it is that the FCC is also allowing the firewire to be C5 encrypted. I really really hope someone is working on breaking this one.

Re:Not a stupid decision - an economic decision (2, Informative)

TheSync (5291) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320746)

The real-time HD encoders used in the broadcast world cost around $50,000. It is a tough job to squish 1.2 Gbps down to under 20 Mbps and make it look good.

Even the lamest quality HD MPEG-2 encoders on the HDV prosumer camcorders are at least several hundred dollars.

yuo Fail I7 (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320359)

if I rQemain

HDTV - PVR / DVR under $200 (2, Informative)

McFly69 (603543) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320367)

I have HDTV and I am with Dishnetwork. There is a cheaper option to record programs and to receive HD tv. It would cost you under $200 to view HD and to record with the ability to record SD signals (There are only like 6 channels in HD anyways). The HD recievers are now on promotion (DirectTv and Dishnetwork). If you can get a 1 year contract, you can get the receiver around $80. Then you buy a modified Tivo box (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ite m=5721787901&fromMakeTrack=true) which will run you around $100. The Tivo box you can send the recorded stuff onto a computer for later viewing. Best of all, no monthly fees ever once you buy this unit. Let me know what others think. No this is not my auction.

Grid-view program schedule pauses nothing new (2, Informative)

mark0 (750639) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320373)

I get the same thing with my Series 2 TiVo right now. The simply listing is pretty fast, but the grid view fills in like Tetris on level 1...

Where is this wording? (-1, Flamebait)

null etc. (524767) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320389)

There's also a nice swipe ('...spectacularly stupid decision') at JVC's for allowing only (copy-protected) Firewire input to the one HDTV tape recorder on the market.
I couldn't find this wording ('...spectacularly stupid decision') anywhere in the article. In fact, I did a 'find' for 'stupid' and came up with nothing (please don't make puns.)

Did the editors censor this comment?

Re:Where is this wording? (1)

Jeremy Erwin (2054) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320480)

RTFA. It's on the second page.


The D-VHS's biggest failing, though, was that it couldn't record in HD from most digital video recorders, thanks to JVC's spectacularly stupid decision to leave out the three most common high-def video inputs in favor of a digital FireWire connector with built-in copy-control circuitry; only a handful of other devices support this. (Comcast's recorder is one; see Jim Hawk's article on Page F1 for details.)


Re:Where is this wording? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320517)

Did you take a look at PAGE 2 of the article?

Re:Where is this wording? (1)

CdBee (742846) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320570)

No. it's just on the second page of the two-page article... PS :-p

Re:Where is this wording? (1)

SpecBear (769433) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320627)

It's in there, on page 2:
The D-VHS's biggest failing, though, was that it couldn't record in HD from most digital video recorders, thanks to JVC's spectacularly stupid decision to leave out the three most common high-def video inputs in favor of a digital FireWire connector with built-in copy-control circuitry; only a handful of other devices support this.
Are you trying to access the site from China? [slashdot.org] I hear they have some censorship issues over there.

HD Tivo (1)

apoplectic (711437) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320444)

Despite the rash of problems reported with the HDMI port and the occasionally slow guide rendering, this machine is well worth the price. After recording Ice Age as my first HD show and watching it later at my own leisure...the experience is so fantastic that I feel as though I've practically stolen something. Great stuff!

SA8000HD (1)

NetJunkie (56134) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320464)

I have the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD from Time Warner. I believe that is the Comcast box they review, but ours doesn't have any ads nor any of the issues they mention. It doesn't have as good of an interface as Tivo, but it does the job. Two tuners, HD, PIP, nice.

Dish Network Mistakes (1)

futuresheep (531366) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320466)

The only leaseable HD reciever from Dish is the 811, which is NOT a DVR. It's cost is $5.00/month. If that's just changed, then oops.

Firewire will never [satelliteguys.us] be enabled on the Dish 921 HD DVR.

neat.. but whats the point :/ (4, Informative)

bmajik (96670) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320516)

I have been a long time DirecTV customer but i just cancelled last week.

I have a Hughes HDVR2 Series2 DirecTivo. It was cool and all, but what I really wanted was a way to get content off of it and watch it on a computer. No home media option for DirecTivo users though. Nice.

The real reason we axed DirecTV (and have not replaced it, nor do we plan to) is that the content just isn't there compared with the price you pay for it.

My big interests are F1 racing and World Rally. Speedchannel's coverage of same amounts to under 10 hours a month, tops. Sure, there is other stuff i _can_ watch (cartoon network, for instance) but i could take or leave it. One issue i find with a tivo is that i have all this stuff in there that i feel obligated to watch because its there and i enjoy watching it...

My wife on the other hand is a minnesota twins fanatic. Yet there wer eless than 5 games available to us, even though we live within 3 hrs of minneapolis and have the local tv pack. The MLB extra innings deal is like $70 or $80 or something silly, and you cant ever get a straight answer on what will or wont be shown because of the ridiculous blackout and regional rights issues related to TV.

So I was basically paying for a few races a month and then some time sucking.

My wife was getting no twins games, but a whole boatload of junk off of TLC that managed to suck her day away. It would start innocently enough - "oh, i'll just watch an episode of blah while i do this chore" and then shes managed to waste the whole afternoon watching crap that isn't even all that interesting.

So $45/mo for a bit of racing and a whole bunch of time wasting didn't seem like a good deal to us anymore.

HD seems like an even worse deal. Where's the HD content ? The devices for doing HD PVR are "cool" (although i think any directivo solution will still have the lack of home-media i cited above) but you're talking like $60+ /mo for television and it seems like there's honestly nothing that enriching to watch. Seems like a better way to spend $60 a month is to use half of it to take your significant other out to some cheap resturant, and then donate the rest to a local organization.

IMO, alot of whats coming right now is technology for technologies sake. I admit that i am captivated by the appeal of a distributed mythTV setup with FEs all over the house, but really, i shouldn't be watching enough tv to justify that.

Re:neat.. but whats the point :/ (1)

futuresheep (531366) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320744)

HD seems like an even worse deal. Where's the HD content ? The devices for doing HD PVR are "cool" (although i think any directivo solution will still have the lack of home-media i cited above) but you're talking like $60+ /mo for television and it seems like there's honestly nothing that enriching to watch

There's plenty of HD content, most of it OTA, and especially sports, I watch Sunday NFL in HD now, Monday Night Football is stunning, as was the US Open. Most of my local news programs are in HD. Tonight I get to choose between Lost, Hawaii, and Law and Order. PBS has amazing stuff on their HD broadcast as well. Tomorrow I get CSI and ER if I want. Saturday, ABC will be showing an HD fees of Castaway. Fun! Tom Hanks gets skinnier in 1080i! This is all over the air. I don't pay the cable company, or a satellite provider extra for any of these channels. As long as you have a good antennae, an HDTV, and an HD tuner, you're set.

sa (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 10 years ago | (#10320590)

Welcome to Slashdot bluewee Preferences Subscribe Journal Logout Sections Main Apache 1 more Apple 1 more AskSlashdot 4 more Books BSD 1 more Developers 5 more Games 10 more Interviews IT 5 more Linux 2 more Politics 5 more Science 7 more YRO 1 more Help FAQ Bugs Stories Old Stories Old Polls Topics Hall of Fame Submit Story About Supporters Code Awards Services Broadband Online Books PriceGrabber Product News Tech Jobs IT Research Current Crop Of HDTV Recorders Compared | Preferences | Top | 85 comments | Search Discussion Threshold: Save: The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. some more gmail invites for you all (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:13AM (#10320068) https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-517235 8b19-6f45f145ca [google.com] https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-13556c 0563-18969179a8 [google.com] https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-bc9b11 50e2-0bef3ba2a4 [google.com] https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-d6f302 cd83-e0644e7ef5 [google.com] https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-62e3c6 9d32-22621daaff [google.com] https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-6c3f07 c84e-b9e70ce4cd [google.com] [ Reply to This ] * Re:some more gmail invites for you all by steve6534 (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:18AM o Re:some more gmail invites for you all by Anonymous Coward (Score:-1) Wednesday September 22, @10:21AM o Re:some more gmail invites for you all by John_Allen_Mohammed (Score:-1) Wednesday September 22, @10:22AM + Re:some more gmail invites for you all by frisbeeforfido (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:28AM * 3dinfo@maficstudios goto hell ! by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:58AM frist posty (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:13AM (#10320072) yeah baby! [ Reply to This ] Fist Sport! (Score:-1) by ringbarer (545020) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:14AM (#10320074) (http://slashdot.org/...&tid=153&cid=31158 25 | Last Journal: Friday May 02, @07:01AM) HDTV is worshipped by Linux perverts as the new way of delivering high quality child pornography to their homes. However, they steadfastly refuse to pay a penny for it. -- hemos_: Alterslash [alterslash.org] is illegal. And is violating copyright. [ Reply to This ] What about PC-based HDTV recorders? (Score:4, Interesting) by Frac (27516) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:15AM (#10320094) I've recently built myself a nice HTPC with two tuners (Hauppauge PVR-250), and I'm quite happy with it. I intend to move onto HDTV capture cards once the most popular PVR software packages (SageTV, Beyond TV) supports it. Does anyone know what the state of the HDTV capture cards for PC looks like right now? Obviously, hardware encoding and picture quality is key... -- Free iPods for you and me! [freeipods.com] [ Reply to This ] * Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by LostCluster (Score:3) Wednesday September 22, @10:21AM o Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by drinkypoo (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:55AM o Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by cft_128 (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:57AM o Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by Chris Carollo (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:58AM * Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by stratjakt (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:22AM o Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by GoRK (Score:3) Wednesday September 22, @10:41AM * Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by ePhil_One (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:23AM * Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by YetAnotherName (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:25AM o Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:36AM + Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by YetAnotherName (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:43AM * Soon to be illegal ... by YetAnotherName (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:28AM o Re:Soon to be illegal ... by yeremein (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:57AM o Myth TV by McFly69 (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:58AM * Re:Over The Air vs Cable/Satellite by chill (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:36AM o Re:Over The Air vs Cable/Satellite by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:44AM o Re:Over The Air vs Cable/Satellite by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:53AM * Re:What about PC-based HDTV recorders? by SlashMaster (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:37AM * Sasem USB 2.0 onAir HDTV by Jackson_Ash Wednesday September 22, @10:58AM DirecTV really needs to get with it. (Score:3, Insightful) by ARRRLovin (807926) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:16AM (#10320110) The current crop of Standalone Tivo's blow the DirecTiVo away performance wise. The features of the DirecTiVo's can't be beat, but those that are used to the standard Series2 TiVo (or even the Series1) are growing tired of the dismal menu performance of the DirecTivo. All of this can be solved quite easily.......in software. Update those TiVo's DirecTV! -- -Randy [ Reply to This ] Re:DirecTV really needs to get with it. (Score:4, Informative) by LostCluster (625375) * Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:27AM (#10320229) (http://www.studioqb.com/) A codebase split seems to have happened when the DirecTiVo units officially took on the name of "DirecTV DVR with TiVo service" and the monthly subscription price got halved from $9.95 to $4.95. Near that time, the fees for standalone TiVos moved upwards from $9.95 to $12.95... And at that point the DirecTV code froze, while development for the standalone TiVos continued. Apparently, DirecTV now must pay for any new features they want added to the DirecTV DVRs, meanwhile TiVo continued to push its latest stuff out for free to their direct subscribers. All of the things that a standard Series 2 TiVo can do that a Series 2 DirecTV DVR cannot were added after that point in time. -- 10k+ have played, only about 1.5% have won. [studioqb.com] [ Reply to This | Parent ] o Re:DirecTV really needs to get with it. by arazor (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:44AM o Re:DirecTV really needs to get with it. by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:54AM What about the SA8000HD (Score:2, Interesting) by Blahzay (564823) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:17AM (#10320114) Didn't the title say the review was of ALL the HD recorders available? The Scientific Atlanta 8000HD may not be the best, but it certainly works. [ Reply to This ] * Re:What about the SA8000HD by Matrix_X (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:24AM o Re:What about the SA8000HD by Mondoz (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:36AM Washington Post likes TiVo? (Score:-1, Redundant) by stratjakt (596332) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:17AM (#10320117) (Last Journal: Sunday September 29, @11:10AM) I take back everything bad I've ever said about TiVo! I for one can't wait to start paying a monthly fee for TV listings and have a device phone home for me nightly! -- I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!! [ Reply to This ] * Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by smackjer (Score:3) Wednesday September 22, @10:32AM o Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by stratjakt (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:43AM * Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by Paulrothrock (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:34AM o Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by evilmousse (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:45AM o Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by telstar (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:47AM + Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by Paulrothrock (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:50AM o Re:Washington Post likes TiVo? by Helios1182 (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:49AM is anyone really surprised at this format war? (Score:3, Interesting) by CheechBG (247105) * Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:17AM (#10320120) (http://slashdot.org/) I have never seen D-VHS, but I can only imagine that since it is tape, that it has the same fundamental flaws as VHS, the magnetic tape. I don't care if it is digital, if I put my copy of Fear and Loathing in there and play it over and over I can only surmise that it's going to degrade as the heads go over and over the tape. IMHO, Blu-ray is a much more reliable (in comparison, I know) format. [ Reply to This ] * Re:is anyone really surprised at this format war? by stratjakt (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:34AM * Re:is anyone really surprised at this format war? by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:54AM You can record HDTV content on a current Tivo (Score:3, Informative) by SensitiveMale (155605) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:18AM (#10320138) I do it all the time. Now you do lose the enhanced resolution BUT it does record in widescreen format which is nice for movies over cable. [ Reply to This ] Re:You can record HDTV content on a current Tivo (Score:5, Funny) by AGTiny (104967) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:35AM (#10320312) Right, and you can record normal TV in black and white, but why would you want to? :) [ Reply to This | Parent ] FireWire (Score:5, Interesting) by daveschroeder (516195) * Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:19AM (#10320145) (http://das.doit.wisc.edu/) FireWire wasn't a stupid decision...it was 5C-protected (copy-protected) FireWire that was a stupid decision. FireWire was probably the best promise of device interconnectivity to ever exist in recent years. But it has been crippled by several things: 1. Content providers/TV/movie/Hollywood's deathly fear of being able to easily interconnect all devices, including computing equipment, via one perfect, digital connection. 2. A bit due to Apple's early ridiculous licensing and logo requirements to use the "FireWire" name. FireWire is the name that would have taken IEEE-1394 the furthest, but thanks to the early bungling, we're now stuck with "FireWire", "DV", "i.Link", "IEEE-1394", "1394"...what's that sir? Oh, yes, they're all really the same thing. Imagine having ALL of your entertainment equipment, including your computer, connected digitally via one, simple FireWire cable each, all daisy-chained off one another. All able to control one another when necessary, sending meta-data and device control commands, as well as audio, video, and other data over the wire. No ridiculous bundles of cabling. Everything plug and play. Everything "just works". Even Wireless FireWire (yes, there's a spec). (And yes, FireWire has the bandwidth necessary to handle all this and more.) That was the promise of FireWire. Instead, we're stuck with final output formats like DVI, and HDCP-protected HDMI, 5C FireWire that virtually nothing supports, and the coming Broadcast Flag. Oh well. :-( [ Reply to This ] * Re:FireWire by AGTiny (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:25AM FireWire products (Score:4, Insightful) by daveschroeder (516195) * Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:29AM (#10320258) (http://das.doit.wisc.edu/) I forgot to mention...there ARE quite a few products that do contain FireWire: HDTVs, set top boxes, DVD players, digital VCRs, A/V receivers, etc: http://www.1394ta.org/About/products/consumer_prod ucts.html [1394ta.org] Additionally, the FCC is mandating that as of July 1, 2005, all digital cable set top boxes MUST include a functional FireWire port [fcc.gov], and as of April 1, 2004, must provide a set top box with a working FireWire port on customer request. Of course, this doesn't help if content providers choose to encrypt the content. Here's hoping we can fight the Broadcast Flag [eff.org]. Unfortunately, I can see a future where our kids think that the only way they can watch what they want to watch, when they want to watch it, and on the device they wish to watch it on, is by illegally downloading it from a P2P network, instead of being able to legally record it and move it around THEMSELVES with equipment THEY BOUGHT from a service THEY PAY FOR in their OWN HOMES. [ Reply to This | Parent ] * Re:FireWire by Paulrothrock (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:36AM o Re:FireWire by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:42AM o Except... by daveschroeder (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:46AM * Imagine having ALL of your entertainment equipment by way2trivial (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:39AM * Making your own HD-PVR using firewire by mmmbeer (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:51AM Follow up Article (Score:-1, Troll) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:19AM (#10320146) over at technews live [technewslive.info] pretty nifty [ Reply to This ] * Bad Moderation by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:25AM * TROLL! NFSW BROWSER POPUPS by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:28AM Paw! (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:20AM (#10320155) Ya'll get out to the back 40 and harvest that crop of DVR 921s. You know them rains a-coming since my knee be achin'. [ Reply to This ] Only copy protected? (Score:2, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:20AM (#10320159) The DTheater has encrypyted tapes that can only be played on DTheater (the copy protection) compatible VCRs. I can record lots of open signals over the Firewire. The lower end one can be found for around $300, but the newer and more expensive ones are made a lot better. [ Reply to This ] Don't buy a DVR, rent it! (Score:5, Interesting) by AGTiny (104967) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:22AM (#10320178) I have a Motorola DCT-6208, the model I think they are referring to in this article that Comcast offers. Even though the hard drive is only 80GB, and the interface sucks, the thing is virtually free and I don't have to worry about it breaking, hard drive failing, or the eventual obsolescence in less than a year. Anyone shelling out $1000 for the satellite models is a sucker IMO. I used to be a DirecTV customer and bought a RCA DTC-100 HD tuner on Ebay for $400. I was able to turn around and resell it on Ebay for $350 2 years later, but only because I sold it before the crop of DVRs came out, and because it was a high-demand model. Now, if you are stuck with an obsolete HD Tivo in a year or two, you are pretty much screwed because the new models will be so much better no one will want an older model. Maybe you can sell it to your grandmother though for $100. :) With cable though, I can keep getting a better box for virtually nothing. The new Motorola DCT-6412 with two tuners and 120GB hard drive is right around the corner, and I will just have to call and setup an appointment to have the tech come in and swap it out. [ Reply to This ] * Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! by AGTiny (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:33AM * Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! by digerata (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:34AM o Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! by AGTiny (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:40AM * Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! by LostCluster (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:34AM * Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! by syates21 (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:34AM o Re:Don't buy a DVR, rent it! by AGTiny (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:38AM In other TiVo news (Score:0) by spudchucker (680073) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:23AM (#10320188) Looks like NetFlix, TiVo, and Time Warner are working on video on demand. http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-5376581.html -S [ Reply to This ] DirecTivo (Score:2) by natron 2.0 (615149) Alter Relationship > on Wednesday September 22, @10:27AM (#10320235) (http://petesweb.spymac.net/ | Last Journal: Wednesday May 07, @01:37AM) I have been happy with my DirecTV Tivo (series 2) since I purchased it a year ago. I am still waiting for the price drop on the DirecTV HD models though, but I cannot wait to put my HDTV to the test! -- [n8.r0n] [ Reply to This ] Lets get this out of the way (Score:-1, Redundant) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:29AM (#10320257) 1.) imagine a bewolf cluster of these... 2.) mmmm high definition porn 3.) Generally the problem is that the TV signal is not worth watching. 4.2)Slashdot : Commercials for nerds, it's money that matters. 8. Yes, I should probably learn to count. 2.) Gamers, what about reviewers of *ahem* adult entertainment material? Laugh, your boss is behind you... bw [ Reply to This ] DirecTV HD Tivo HR10-250 (Score:3, Informative) by arazor (55656) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:32AM (#10320279) I agree that the Tivo has the best interface and general coolness. But be aware that there is a very good chance that the HDMI port will not work at all or has to be messed with and even thats not 100%. If you dont believe just check the tivo community forums about this unit http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.ph p?s=f81a3d87b7dcd78fda0257b6df286bc6&threadid=1832 03 That said if you do not plan to use the HDMI port by all means get one immediately DirecTV has several HD promotions going on right now and has plans to add a lot of HD programming in 2005 and 2006. -- I'm not conservative about everything just killing terrorists - Dennis Miller need a gmail invite? Just email me. [ Reply to This ] * Re:DirecTV HD Tivo HR10-250 by arazor (Score:1) Wednesday September 22, @10:39AM I have the HD Tivo (Score:3, Informative) by mp3zero (306357) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:33AM (#10320293) I know some (read most) people will think I am crazy but I recently purchased the DirecTV HD Tivo. I have had the unit for just over a week now and absolutely love it. The price: 999.00 (ouch, don't tell my wife) I have had DirecTV HDTV for about 6 months and really hated not being able to record the shows I like to watch. I found myself using my hacked/upgraded tivo (series 1 non-hd) to watch shows that also are aired in HD simply because I like skipping commercials. The quality of recorded shows are simply amazing. Especially Disovery HD and movies on HBO-HD. Very nice sound as it keeps the DD 5.1 soundtrack. Was it worth the 1000.00 I paid for it? Well, I priced out building a similar HTPC (Home theater PC) with 2 HD tuners and 2 OTA tuners and it was more expensive to roll my own. Also, mythTV does not worth well with direct (from what I have read). So I do believe it was worth the 1000.00 considering it does come with a 250gb hard drive (150.00). :) I know I know I know.. justify myself all the way to hell. [ Reply to This ] Not a stupid decision - an economic decision (Score:2) by GoRK (10018) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:37AM (#10320334) (http://www.blurbco.com/~gork/ | Last Journal: Friday February 13, @11:34AM) What the article does not tell you is that the decision to include anything OTHER than a firewire input to the D-VHS VCR would have also required a REALTIME HDTV MPEG2 encoder in the VCR. By "the most popular 3 hdtv interconnects" they are probably talking about Component YUV, Component RGB, and DVI-D -- while these are indeed the most popular interconnects, they transport the already uncompressed video stream. To record them in DVHS format you'd have to recompress the video back to MPEG2, and remux the audio (and ensure sync). This alone would have sent the price of the unit skyrocketing. In addition the decision was not stupid, because as of April 1, 2004, cable companies are required to have the firewire transports on their devices, meaning that the decision for a firewire-only vcr would be fairly standards compliant as well as inexpensive. The nice thing about firewire transporting this is that the video arrives preencoded in a nice transport stream in full quality. The not-nice thing about it is that the FCC is also allowing the firewire to be C5 encrypted. I really really hope someone is working on breaking this one. -- X5O!P%@AP[4\PZX54(P^)7CC)7} $EICAR-STANDARD-ANTIVIRUS-TEST-FILE!$H+H* [ Reply to This ] yuo Fail I7 (Score:-1, Offtopic) by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday September 22, @10:40AM (#10320359) if I rQemain [ Reply to This ] HDTV - PVR / DVR under $200 (Score:2) by McFly69 (603543) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:40AM (#10320367) (http://slashdot.org/...id=44261&cid=4601566) I have HDTV and I am with Dishnetwork. There is a cheaper option to record programs and to receive HD tv. It would cost you under $200 to view HD and to record with the ability to record SD signals (There are only like 6 channels in HD anyways). The HD recievers are now on promotion (DirectTv and Dishnetwork). If you can get a 1 year contract, you can get the receiver around $80. Then you buy a modified Tivo box (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ite m=5721787901&fromMakeTrack=true) which will run you around $100. The Tivo box you can send the recorded stuff onto a computer for later viewing. Best of all, no monthly fees ever once you buy this unit. Let me know what others think. No this is not my auction. -- NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain... [ Reply to This ] Grid-view program schedule pauses nothing new (Score:2, Informative) by mark0 (750639) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:41AM (#10320373) I get the same thing with my Series 2 TiVo right now. The simply listing is pretty fast, but the grid view fills in like Tetris on level 1... [ Reply to This ] Where is this wording? (Score:0, Flamebait) by null etc. (524767) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:42AM (#10320389) There's also a nice swipe ('...spectacularly stupid decision') at JVC's for allowing only (copy-protected) Firewire input to the one HDTV tape recorder on the market. I couldn't find this wording ('...spectacularly stupid decision') anywhere in the article. In fact, I did a 'find' for 'stupid' and came up with nothing (please don't make puns.) Did the editors censor this comment? [ Reply to This ] * Re:Where is this wording? by Jeremy Erwin (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:50AM * Re:Where is this wording? by Anonymous Coward Wednesday September 22, @10:53AM * Re:Where is this wording? by CdBee (Score:2) Wednesday September 22, @10:58AM HD Tivo (Score:2) by apoplectic (711437) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:46AM (#10320444) Despite the rash of problems reported with the HDMI port and the occasionally slow guide rendering, this machine is well worth the price. After recording Ice Age as my first HD show and watching it later at my own leisure...the experience is so fantastic that I feel as though I've practically stolen something. Great stuff! [ Reply to This ] SA8000HD (Score:2) by NetJunkie (56134) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:48AM (#10320464) I have the Scientific Atlanta 8000HD from Time Warner. I believe that is the Comcast box they review, but ours doesn't have any ads nor any of the issues they mention. It doesn't have as good of an interface as Tivo, but it does the job. Two tuners, HD, PIP, nice. [ Reply to This ] Dish Network Mistakes (Score:2) by futuresheep (531366) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:49AM (#10320466) (Last Journal: Thursday October 10, @06:57PM) The only leaseable HD reciever from Dish is the 811, which is NOT a DVR. It's cost is $5.00/month. If that's just changed, then oops. Firewire will never [satelliteguys.us] be enabled on the Dish 921 HD DVR. [ Reply to This ] neat.. but whats the point :/ (Score:3, Informative) by bmajik (96670) Alter Relationship on Wednesday September 22, @10:53AM (#10320516) (http://www.mattevans.org/ | Last Journal: Friday December 26, @04:32AM) I have been a long time DirecTV customer but i just cancelled last week. I have a Hughes HDVR2 Series2 DirecTivo. It was cool and all, but what I really wanted was a way to get content off of it and watch it on a computer. No home media option for DirecTivo users though. Nice. The real reason we axed DirecTV (and have not replaced it, nor do we plan to) is that the content just isn't there compared with the price you pay for it. My big interests are F1 racing and World Rally. Speedchannel's coverage of same amounts to under 10 hours a month, tops. Sure, there is other stuff i _can_ watch (cartoon network, for instance) but i could take or leave it. One issue i find with a tivo is that i have all this stuff in there that i feel obligated to watch because its there and i enjoy watching it... My wife on the other hand is a minnesota twins fanatic. Yet there wer eless than 5 games available to us, even though we live within 3 hrs of minneapolis and have the local tv pack. The MLB extra innings deal is like $70 or $80 or something silly, and you cant ever get a straight answer on what will or wont be shown because of the ridiculous blackout and regional rights issues related to TV. So I was basically paying for a few races a month and then some time sucking. My wife was getting no twins games, but a whole boatload of junk off of TLC that managed to suck her day away. It would start innocently enough - "oh, i'll just watch an episode of blah while i do this chore" and then shes managed to waste the whole afternoon watching crap that isn't even all that interesting. So $45/mo for a bit of racing and a whole bunch of time wasting didn't seem like a good deal to us anymore. HD seems like an even worse deal. Where's the HD content ? The devices for doing HD PVR are "cool" (although i think any directivo solution will still have the lack of home-media i cited above) but you're talking like $60+ /mo for television and it seems like there's honestly nothing that enriching to watch. Seems like a better way to spend $60 a month is to use half of it to take your significant other out to some cheap resturant, and then donate the rest to a local organization. IMO, alot of whats coming right now is technology for technologies sake. I admit that i am captivated by the appeal of a distributed mythTV setup with FEs all over the house, but really, i shouldn't be watching enough tv to justify that. [ Reply to This ] "Kill the Wabbit, Kill the Wabbit, Kill the Wabbit!" -- Looney Tunes, "What's Opera Doc?" (1957, Chuck Jones) All trademarks and copyrights on this page are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the Poster. The Rest © 1997-2004 OSTG. [ home | awards | contribute story | older articles | OSTG | advertise | about | terms of service | privacy | faq | rss ]

D-VHS does accept unencrypted input (1)

captaineo (87164) | more than 10 years ago | (#10320667)

I have a JVC D-VHS recorder. It will happily record unencrypted MPEG-2 on the FireWire input.

(However, this is sort of a moot point, since it is almost impossible to find a cable/satellite service that will deliver unencrypted video via FireWire. The only one I know of is a certain hardware-modded satellite receiver)

I wouldn't single out JVC though. D-VHS has been available for at least a year; back when it came out, none of the other interfaces like DVI were standardized yet. You will never see a consumer unit that records via analog HD YPbPr anyway. It will either be encrypted FireWire or (more likely) encrypted DVI.
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