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The Jobs Crunch

michael posted about 10 years ago | from the not-steve-jobs dept.

Businesses 1307

randall_burns writes "Neither major party is accurately describing or combatting the Jobs Crunch that Americans are facing. Bad immigration policy-and bad trade deals are combining to decimate the middle class in America."

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GNAA supplies arms, expertise to Iraqi Fighters (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346946)

GNAA supplies arms, expertise to Iraqi Freedom Fighters
September 21, 2004
GNAA Headquarters, Nigeria

In a surprise move early this morning, the GNAA announced its new policy of open support for Iraqi Freedom Fighters [] , pledging aid and expertise to the troubled region. GNAA spokesman Gary Niger appeared on the Orly Factor this evening to field questions about the alliance. What follows is an unedited transcript of his response to a question on the GNAA's motives for alliance.

"I don't think it's surprising. We were initally skeptical of these people's ability to deliver, since we discovered that Jews, not arabs were the ones responsible for WTC 9.11 NEVAR 4GET [] . After the Nick Berg affair, we got interested."

"We looked over the Saddam Loyalist\Radical Fundamentalist adgenda and found that we had a lot in common with these guys. These guys are really focused. Just look their insistance that women keep their homely faces covered at all times, to keep men focused on men, the way our Gay Nigger God, Allah intended."

"But what really sealed the deal was compassion. When we looked over their financial records, we were shocked. These brave, oily men are out there on the streets of Fallujah every day, risking their tight asses, and they're not seeing even 1% of the revenue associated with their heroic actions."

"Look at the Nick Berg video. Here you have a great artistic vision, marred not only by poor equipment, but also by the scheming jews at who unjustly stole their copyrighted material and made a huge profit on it. It's unconscionable."

"Fortunately, we at the GNAA believe in freedom, and we believe in helping out the underdogs. That's why I'm so pleased to present the freedom fighters of Iraq with the following gifts:"

"To prevent further exploitation, we are assigning our top programmers to share our DRM (Dong Rights Management) technology with these valiant men. Biometric Dong Recognition is becoming widely recognized as the most secure means of identity establishment, and with our new vibrating scanners, it's easier than ever."

"While these guys don't lack heart, their VHS camcorders have got to go. We're supplying not only three professional Betacam SP units, but also 25 Canon XL1s [] camcorders, for agents in the field. This will greatly increase not just the number of beheadings caught on tape, but also the quality."

"Say goodbye to grainy, choppy beheading videos. The next time you see some poor bastard getting his shit lopped, it's going to be in 3 CCD quality, with image stabilization. With Canon's XL lens mounting system, you can now be decapitated with Mohammeds's (PBUH) full blessing, at potential focal ranges between 24 and 17,280 mm."

"And of course we'll be encoding it all with 'Terrorist's Choice' OGG Theora\OGG Vorbis."

"Finally, I would like to present one gross of top of the line Husqvarna 3120XP [] chainsaws. We've all watched with embarassment at the struggling efforts of these spindly-armed arab boytoys. Now, junk lopping can be accomplished in a fraction of the time, even by the pathetically malnourished."

"This is a great day for both the GNAA, and the movement to free Iraq from its oppressors. Allah Al Akbar. Jews did WTC."

Mr. Niger concluded his speech by blasting semen into Mr. O'Reilly's eyes, effectively ending the debate.

About Iraqui Freedom Fighters

Iraq has long been known as the world's premiere terrorists to meet, greet, and defeat their zionist oppressors. With the Israel-led coalition forces squatting on holy sites, Iraq is a modern day decapitation bonanza. Iraq's Freedom Fighters are well known as the world's most industrious head-choppers.

About Husqvarna Chainsaws

Husqvarna is considered by many as one of the top brands of Chainsaws in the world. Husqvarna saws are used exclusively by forestry and loggers on the west coast. If those saws can hold up out there, then the home owner/freedom fighter has a saw for life. Husqvarna saws are some of the lightest in their class, and each one packs maximum lopping power.

About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [] ?
Are you a NIGGER [] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [] and watch it. You can download the movie [] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [] on [] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Indian
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2004 Gay Nigger Association of America []

Re:GNAA -welcome fellow slashdotter. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347106)

It's nice to see that you are also sitting in front of a computer NOT getting any pussy.
or do you know what pussy is?

Unemployed first post. (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346950)

Unemployed first post.

Re:Unemployed first post. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346967)

Ha ha!

Someone actually wasted keystrokes downrating this?

Moderators. They should get a -1 for "redundancy".


First Pr0stage!!!!!! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346951)

lOL I am teh fail it lololol (gnaa rock)

first post (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346953)

first prost

All I know is... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346955)

For the first time in my life, within 4 weeks of one another, my sister lost her job, my friend lost his job, and his wife lost her job.
These are NOT good times...although Bush would have us believe otherwise.

Re:All I know is... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346982)

Ah, the old saying:

A recession is when someone you know is out of work.
A depression is when you are out of work.

Re:All I know is... (2, Funny)

here4fun (813136) | about 10 years ago | (#10347071)

Ah, the old saying:

A recession is when someone you know is out of work.
A depression is when you are out of work.

Then we are in a MAJOR depression.

Re:All I know is... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346984)

That's funny ... because we have three computer related jobs (including one for a senior developer) that we've been unable to fill due to lack of skilled applicants.

Perhaps the problem is that your sister, friend, and friends' wife lack the skills necessary to compete in this modern economy?

Re:All I know is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346995)

That's a retarded statement. The poster said they just recently lost their jobs, which means the organizations they work for are downsizing for whatever reason.

If they had been looking for work for the last 6 months unable to find any, then maybe your retarded ass would have had a point.

Re:All I know is... (2, Insightful)

N3WBI3 (595976) | about 10 years ago | (#10347027)

maybe your retarded ass would have had a point.

Or maybe the point is right now there are jobs to be had. The OP said that these jobs are still unfilled.

Re:All I know is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347017)

Perhaps the problem is that your sister, friend, and friends' wife lack the skills necessary to compete in this modern economy?

The job market is not limited to ICT.

Re:All I know is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347000)

I don't see the correlation between you 3 losing your jobs within 4 weeks and these times... are you implying that those 4 weeks happened recently?

And I don't remember Bush ever saying that these are good times... "rebounding" does not mean "good"

Re:All I know is... (4, Informative)

FauxPasIII (75900) | about 10 years ago | (#10347072)

> And I don't remember Bush ever saying that these are good times

The economy is strong, it's getting stronger []

Re:All I know is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347101)

He said it's getting stronger. having a strong economy doesn't mean everyone has a job. Look at other economies around the world.

Another tax-and-spend liberal flip-flopper... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347111)

but we all know the facts are biased!

Why don't you go scare some old people by puting big government between them and their doctor (who's not taking it in the pooper from an HMO *)

* That's just the invisible hand, turn your head and cough.

Re:All I know is... (5, Interesting)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | about 10 years ago | (#10347022)

Personal anecdotes may suffice for a lot of people, but for it to be a reasoned argument, personal anecdotes alone don't cut it as it falls under the fallacy of insufficient sample. This is because it could be explained as horrible luck for a small group of people, you need national stats to make such a case, and of course, an alternative canidate with a clear plan.

Being jobless is rough though, and very unfortunate if it hits both wage earners in a household.

Personally, I think Kerry needs to give out specifics on how he expects to fix things. It just seems to me that he's hedging, he still hasn't offered real solutions during his campaign. I do seriously want to vote Kerry, but it seems that the best argument for doing so is that he's "not Bush".

If someone does have a clear statement on Kerry's proposed economic policy, I'd like to read it. Seriously.

Re:All I know is... (0, Flamebait)

rebeka thomas (673264) | about 10 years ago | (#10347093)

For the first time in my life, within 4 weeks of one another, my sister lost her job, my friend lost his job, and his wife lost her job.
These are NOT good times...although Bush would have us believe otherwise.

And the problems with these times are a carryover from the Clinton administration's disastrous policies. There is only so much recovery one president can do in one term, despite how good Bush is.

I can guarantee you if a Democrat gets in again you'll be sliding deeper and deeper.

I have made it with a woman. (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346956)

Inform the men.

Re:I have made it with a woman. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347003)

"We are sure she's a women this time?"

Outsourcing (5, Informative)

b0lt (729408) | about 10 years ago | (#10346959)

What about the state sponsored outsourcing? The US government is actively supporting outsourcing, examples here [] , here [] , and

Re:Outsourcing (2, Insightful)

N3WBI3 (595976) | about 10 years ago | (#10346996)

This is the *only* thing of worth Kerry has said, Now what he might do about it I dont know, and how business will react to having outsourcing clipped and taxes hiked at the same time also remains to be seen.

How I long for a candidate who actually cares about both workers and business owners...

Re:Outsourcing (-1, Redundant)

donatj (815865) | about 10 years ago | (#10347056)

If you don't allow outsourcing, you will heart the economy more, companies will LEAVE AMERICA. It is not economicly feasable to hire americans while you can get forigners to work for half the price. Why can they work for half the price? The simple answer is unions have raised everyones wages in the united states higher then they deserve, therefore the price of everything has gone up simply because it can, raising the cost of living for everyone in the united states. If we wan't to stop outsorcing we have to take a wage hit, its that simple. Folowed by the abolishment of Unions, they do nothing but take peoples money now.

Re:Outsourcing (1)

donatj (815865) | about 10 years ago | (#10347084)

Heh, I notice I got bad Karma for my last comment, because people don't like to take resoponsabiltiy, they like to blame it on the president, the government. Its not, its overpaid workers. Simple fact of the matter.

And the wheels go on.. (0, Flamebait)

The Slashdotted (665535) | about 10 years ago | (#10346965)

Does Kerry/Edwards remind anyone of the old "me too" sterotype of AOLers back in the day?

Bush has his policy, Kerry says it sucks, but I'm make a very minor revision to it.

FYI: This is minute 4 of the 5 minute hate.

Looks different from where I sit. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347025)

His stated policies, among other things, are to enforce the tax laws already on the books. Something the Clinton administration was lax in, and something the Bush administration simply doesn't do, unless you're relatively poor. Close existing legal tax loopholes, and benefits for companies that outsource. As well as provide tax incentives for companies that don't. Which is of course just what he claims, but 180 degrees from what the current administration does, and admittedly plans to continue doing. He also planned to be more aggressive, and possibly heavy handed in dealing with trade organizations when it comes to protecting US interests. He also supports enforcement of current immigration laws, and proper funding for border patrols and NIS. (Which Bush won't do since a "let 'em run free" policy puts a downward pressure on what services cost.)

The trade deficit, and outsourcing aren't about cheaper labor, their about unequal access to capital. People are forced to pool and discount their capital which no longer is used to build infrastructure in their local communities or the larger community of the whole of the US. But rather it's hemoraged out to other locales where a quicker short term gain is percieved, rampant corruption is considered a cost of doing business, and it's hard to blame people in other legal jurisdictions. We in America have the most capital and have to pay a premium for access to it. Thanks to the 80's the 'B' in MBA stands for "Bullshit".

If Kerry followed his plan up with a pledge to subsidize lighting up a bunch of huge walk away nuclear reactors, I'd say his was the beginings of a perfect economic policy. Bush, yeah, that's not going to happen.

OT: Sig? (1)

EnormousTooth (678644) | about 10 years ago | (#10347039)

Wasn't it the Two Minutes Hate? Great book, btw.

Re:OT: Sig? (1)

geminidomino (614729) | about 10 years ago | (#10347061)

Except two minutes isn't enough time for all the ichor to be spewed against two very prominent asshats.

Re:And the wheels go on.. (0, Redundant)

Forbman (794277) | about 10 years ago | (#10347110)

The funny thing about Iraq is that in the span of a few months we seem to be in a position (ironically, France was involved in this, except that in helping them withdraw from the disaster at Dien Bien Phu because they got their asses bitch-slapped, we screwed them out of a bunch of $billion-blood dollar contracts with Saddam Hussain) which took us over 10 years to get in with Iraq (counting 1954, first US involvement, to mid-1960s when the build-ups got serious, but not really, if you count the first Iraq War a part of all this, as well as the no-fly zones, etc., finally peaking with the US invasion of Iraq).

But now we have two local badddd-asses constantly trying to poke red hot pokers into the eyes of Uncle Sam, instead of just one.

GW keeps harping on "vote for me and we'll win this!", when perhaps he should take a cue from Nixon, and be working to let Kerry win, so he's not the 2nd Republican to preside over a US withdrawl (retreat?) from one of its conflicts.

Which sucks. Because if you believe the 90-10 rule, I would bet that 90% of what we're doing in Iraq is good, moral, right, honorable, appreciated, etc., but we just don't hear that, do we. Instead we hear of the 10% bad stuff: the prison fuckups, we continue to hear of Islamists capturing other Islamists and cutting off their heads [do they say a prayer for them first? is getting beheaded a bad thing for a Moslem?], not withstanding all the other people they get their bacon grease-stained hands on, yet the Arab world does not appear to be doing anything at all about it, and every day a few more Americans are killed every day in little terrorist attacks (why not ask for Israel's advice on how to deal with these). Where are the imams declaring in the press that the terrorists killing foreigners are unjust, because they are killing indiscriminately, not for the betterment of Islam, but merely for the advancement of their putrid dreams of power?

A very real change in Iraq policy would need to send some serious messages. It might even require some mass civilian casualties. Drop a BLU-82 or MOAB on Tikrit and Fallujah. Stop interrogating Iraqi detainees, but killing them and letting dogs and pigs eat at their rotting bodies. Let them know that these little kidnappings and chicken-shit roadside bombings will be punished 100-fold, 1000-fold.

And in the diplomatic circles, the US needs to air all the dirty shit hiding in the closets of countries who will, of course, be pissed off by this kind of action. France & Algeria. France & unilateral nuclear testing. France and unilateral terrorist activities. Russia & Chechnya. Recent, modern stuff. And on and on and on. If we're going to act all imperious and such in the world's affairs, better go whole-hog into it.

Post-WWII democracy worked because the countries involved and their citizens had no other choice. We need to create the same kind of situation.

Instead, we appear to be in a continuously reactive mode. We are reacting (by not appearing to really do anything) to terroristic bombings and kidnappings. If it was domestic, the FBI would be all over it, and the perps WOULD be found, and at least where they are at isolated and surrounded with a lot of hot lead projectors. But now, they fade into the dark.

We are reacting to hit-and-run mortar attacks, because so many of our troops are holed up, etc., and the political fear of civilian casualties, for better or worse, sort of creates and abets this situation.

Maybe we *SHOULD* pull out most of the serious hardware, and leave the job to the Greenie-Beanies and SEALs, along with some conventional forces (maybe a Marine flotilla and a carrier or two in the Gulf) to back them up, and a few strategically placed conventional units near by, but out in the open.

We (or Iraq) also needs to somehow "flip" one or two highly influential people against the status quo, to help turn the tide and isolate (what is isolated is more easily removed) those who do not see the light.

Of course, all easier said than done. But instead all we here are platitudes that "we just need to stay the course". Blah blah blah. Pounding sand, I think is the correct expression.

Somehow or another, the US reintegrated the southern states after the US civil war, even though the war still lives for more than a few people. "Rebel Yell!!!" Yee-haw. Whatever. Grant & Sherman should have kept going. But I guess the US didn't have pockets of Fellow Southern (Baptist) Gentlemen in France, Ausria-Hungary, Spain, Mexico, etc. to continue to feed into the pro-Southern "movement" and "dream" after the war was over, that America would be a true Southern Paradise eventually.

Hopefully Iraq will figure this one out as well.

Of course Kerry is sitting on the sidelines criticizing decisions, and all the Bush fanboys (and girls) are also yelling back like Yankee fans about Bosox fans, no, about every baseball team's fans, using the fear of the unknown and past results to justify continuing down the "death by 1000 roadside bombings and beheadings" road to ruin, that people see and can relate to the last version of it 40 years ago, but do not seem to quite know how to articulate yet.

If the mosque in Fallujah is so important, how come we cannot ask those in the Islamic world advice for how to deal with the situation, permission, or some sort of aid? Even if it's only "your fight against the Great Evil is justified, but you also hold all of Islam hostage by hiding in holy places like cowards", in other words, "take your fight out of my bar".

low unemployment compared to europe (5, Insightful)

vijayiyer (728590) | about 10 years ago | (#10346968)

Since it's so fashionable to compare our policy to the European powers, let's look at some of the numbers. In France, unemployment was 9.3% as of last year. Germany's unemployment rate was 9.7% as of 2 years ago. We had a bubble during the 90s, and it's only expected to pay the price now. The economy moves in cycles and is an extremely complex nonlinear system. To conclusively blame immigration and trade policy as the cause for an increase in unemployment is easy, but unfortunately also meaningless.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (2, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | about 10 years ago | (#10346994)

First of all I am pretty sure that a person without a job in Europe is much better off then a person without a job in the US.

Having said that I really don't think that unemployment is measured the same in both places. In the US if a person stops looking for job (gives up for example) unemployment goes down. The unemployment figures only take into account people who are actively looking for jobs. I am not sure how it's measured in Europe but I would bet it's different. You may be comparing oranges and apples.

Finally I really don't care how much worse Europe is. Do you? Does it really help somebody who lost a job to say to them "well other people have it worse then you".

Reagan asked the question "are you better off today then you were four years ago" and the question is still valid. Compare your (and your countries) situation to four years ago and vote accordingly.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (4, Insightful)

N3WBI3 (595976) | about 10 years ago | (#10347036)

So to clarify: You're reasonably sure your better off unemployed in europe than the US but you dont know how? You're pretty sure unemployement is measured differently in europe then the us but you dont know how?

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

here4fun (813136) | about 10 years ago | (#10347098)

Grandparent: First of all I am pretty sure that a person without a job in Europe is much better off then a person without a job in the US.

Parent: So to clarify: You're reasonably sure your better off unemployed in europe than the US but you dont know how?

I know how. They have a ton of social programs that people in the USA don't have. They have health care which people in the USA don't have.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0, Flamebait)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | about 10 years ago | (#10347064)

First of all I am pretty sure that a person without a job in Europe is much better off then a person without a job in the US.

Maybe, but that is still one guy who might be workin g in the U.S. He did say 9.7% right? And since you used the word "Europe" unemployment can be MUCH higher than that, double digets. Europe's average was 11.3% wonder what they say to our 5.4 or 5.5 %?

Finally I really don't care how much worse Europe is. Do you? Does it really help somebody who lost a job to say to them "well other people have it worse then you".
I Kinda care when people start trying to make our country use thier system (socialized everything). I'd like to point out everything is a trade off.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

killjoe (766577) | about 10 years ago | (#10347114)

"Europe's average was 11.3% wonder what they say to our 5.4 or 5.5 %?"

AS I said they measurements are not the same. We stop counting people after 6 months.

"I Kinda care when people start trying to make our country use thier system (socialized everything). I'd like to point out everything is a trade off."

As opposed to what? Socialized some things? Which politician is advocating getting rid of social security, medicare, medicaid, public schools, state universities, farm subsidies etc? That's right NONE OF THEM.

Wake up. We are already mostly a socialized system. There is not THAT much difference between europe and the US when it comes to socialism.

Labour Force Survey (4, Informative)

Epeeist (2682) | about 10 years ago | (#10347082)

> I am not sure how it's measured in Europe but I would bet it's different. You may be comparing oranges and apples.

There is a common measure of unemployment across Europe, the Labour Force Survey. The survey seeks information on respondents' personal circumstances and their labour market status during a specific reference period, normally a period of one week or four weeks (depending on the topic) immediately prior to the interview.

The LFS is carried out under a European Union Directive and uses internationally agreed concepts and definitions. It is the source of the internationally comparable (International Labour Organisation) measure known as 'ILO unemployment'.

On this measure the UK jobless rate is just under 5%, with France, Germany and Italy all at around the 9% mark.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | about 10 years ago | (#10347086)

It was a ridiculous oversimplification in 1984 and it remains so today. National elections are not votes of confidence. They are the process by which we choose our leaders for the next period of time (two, four or six years depending on the office). You don't vote based on what the guy in office has done. You vote based on which of the candidates you believe will do the better job going forward.

It always dismays me when people on either side of the aisle try to make an election into a referendum on the past four (or whatever) years. It's not.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

Alioth (221270) | about 10 years ago | (#10347099)

In Britain at least, unemployment is measured in pretty much the same way (for the official figures) - people out of work and actively looking for work (i.e. claiming benefit, as to claim unemployment benefit you have to demonstrate you are actively seeking work). I think the 'actively seeking work' is the definition an economist would use, too.

From that measure, Britain nearly has full employment at the moment.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347102)

Good idea. I'm much better off today than I was four years ago, because I got off my goddamn ass, opened my own business, made a lot more money, and don't have to worry about being fired. I guess I'll vote for Bush. Maybe if the rest of you fuckers quit whining so much and took some goddamn responsibility for your own fucking lives, you'd be better off, too!

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346998)

Does France stop counting their unemployed when their benefits run out like we do? Ooops. Maybe we shouldn't jury rig our numbers like we do.

Or did the US unite with a state with rampant unemployment like West Germany did with East Germany? And if so, was our wall in Kansas?

Ooops. Guess you should apologize.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (3, Interesting)

dmayle (200765) | about 10 years ago | (#10347005)

Yeah, let's take a moment to look at those numbers. In the U.S., unemployment numbers are doctored so that they don't represent the actual cases. If you've been unemployed for more than 6 months, you drop off the charts because you're considered a lost cause.

In the (mostly socialist) European nations, the government has a responsibility towards you. Many of those unemployed are on state-sponsored education and self-improvements tracks so that they'll be ready to re-enter the job market better prepared for the future.

So, yeah, while other nations are experiencing the same job crunch that we are, most of them are actually doing something about it...

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (2, Informative)

vijayiyer (728590) | about 10 years ago | (#10347035)

Well, then let's look at a time history of France's unemployment rate (source: 1990 9.1 1991 9.5 1992 9.9 1993 11.3 1994 11.8 1995 11.3 1996 11.9 1997 11.8 1998 11.3 1999 10.6 2000 9.1 2001 8.4 2002 8.7 2003 9.3 They'be been doing something about it for 14 years, with little to show for it, if you ask me. The original article references Japan as a model, and it's economy has been in the dumps for just as long (just look at a chart of the Nikkei). It's what happens when the government decides that they can "play God" with the economy.

Those numbers are doctored everywhere... (2, Insightful)

Gorimek (61128) | about 10 years ago | (#10347083)

The unemployment numbers are political dynamite in any country, so they're pretty heavily doctored everywhere.

My native Sweden has fairly low official numbers, but they are achieved by having some 10% or 20% (*) of the working age population that is not working being classified in other categores. The big ones are long term sickness, early retirement and "education". Some of that education is no doubt useful in the way you describe, but most is little more than long term people storage, and everybody involved knows it.

In all these categories you are getting paid fairly well by the government, to a much larger extent than in the US, which you may or may not think is a good thing.

So where is the unemployment really highest? Who lies the most and the best? I don't have that information, though I'm sure there are plenty of studies someone can look up. But as a Swede living in California I have no doubt at all that there are far more Americans gainfully employed, and that it's much easier to get a job here.

(*) I haven't seen actual numbers in a long time, and these things are very hard to measure precisely anyway, but that's the range.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347009)

Immigration is also very difficult to understand, but here's some easy numbers:

In California, there is an estimated 2.5 million illegal immigrants.
In California, there is an measured 34 million legal residents.
In California, there is a measured 5.9% unemployment.

With simple multiplication, you can see that immediately removing 2.5 million illegals from the job pool opens (at least) 1.9 million jobs. While many of those jobs are for low income, unskilled labor, the removal of said illegals would also ease the burden on taxpayers, lower home prices (try finding a house in LA for under half a million - there aren't any, there's no homes left), and lessen congestion on freeways (all those people have to drive to work, you know).

Completely ignoring legal immigration, illegal immigration is a very, very serious problem that neither party wants to touch. The republicans are whoring themselves out to the business interests that like the cheap labor. The democrats are whoring themselves out to the minority voters (and at least in California, are essentially trying to erase the border).

Neither party seems to realize that 27 closed hospitals in California alone are just the beginning of the financial and social problems this country is going to have if we continue to be the economic saviors of the 3rd world.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347026)

Being Economic Saviors has long term benefits. The 3rd world will turn in to the 2nd world and buy the products that they produce and we own. We will make money.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

GreeboNZ (651715) | about 10 years ago | (#10347073)

> The 3rd world will turn in to the 2nd world
What, they'll all become Soviets?
Wikipedia [] says: Second World refers to nations within the Soviet Union's sphere of influence, e.g. Warsaw Pact countries. Besides the Soviet Union proper, most of Eastern Europe was run by satellite governments working closely with Moscow. This term may or may not also refer to Communist countries whose leadership were at odds with Moscow, e.g. China and Yugoslavia.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347090)

yes... what did you think i meant?

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

killjoe (766577) | about 10 years ago | (#10347031)

"Neither party seems to realize that 27 closed hospitals in California alone are just the beginning of the financial and social problems this country is going to have if we continue to be the economic saviors of the 3rd world."

Don't feel so bad. I bet we opened up 27 hospitals in Iraq already. That and a number of schools according to the president.

As for the illegals I highly doubt any american wants to pick fruit for 12 hours at 2 dollars an hour.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347051)

As for the illegals I highly doubt any american wants to pick fruit for 12 hours at 2 dollars an hour.

No, but there are plenty that would do it for $7/hour.

The extra $5/hour is nothing compared to the thousands of dollars taxpayers are forced to spend to pay for healthcare, for education, for increased home prices.

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347028)

Economics shmeconomics...

Let's just blame the immigrants, they haven't been here long enough to have any political power, so they can't defend themselves.

We should especially blame those communist programmers from Finland, they're responsible for decimating our software industry, after all...

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347069)

the US doesn't count discouraged workers in its government statistics. The comparison isn't exactly fair. Less than two-thirds of people in the US 16 and over are actually "participating" in the work force. 62.4% compared to those 66% have found work. If you include children, half the US is employed.

When you don't have a welfare state anymore 6% unemployment is much worse than 9% unemployment. In the former case, the unemployed are being "fucked by the upper 1%" as George Carlin says.

What's more disturbing than unemployment is the rampant underemployment and substantial wage reduction among those who are finding jobs to get off the unemployment rolls. There was a big article recently on the front page of the Oregonian about this very trend.

I'm working a shit job getting half what I should make doing half what I'm qualified to do. My wife has a master's in teaching and can't get a job to teach due to massive budget cuts of the public schools in our state, so she's working in the service sector at five bucks more than minimum wage.

Both of us recently entered the work force after schooling, and all those professional jobs we were supposed to have access to due to our experience and education?

Where are they now?

That's why I support anybody other than Bush or Kerry. (Cobb, Nader, Walt Brown, or Badnarick -- sorry Peroutka, you didn't make the cut)

Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1, Interesting)

Coryoth (254751) | about 10 years ago | (#10347096)

Since it's so fashionable to compare our policy to the European powers, let's look at some of the numbers. In France, unemployment was 9.3% as of last year. Germany's unemployment rate was 9.7% as of 2 years ago.

Unemployment rates are calculated differently around the world, as the "defintion" of unemployed changes from country to country. In the US I gather "unemployed" means you are actively drawing unemployment insurance. If you weren't working long enough prior to losing your job, have been on unemployment insurance too long and have stopped receiving it (someone in this thread claimed that could be as little as 6 months, I don't know), or collect disability instead, then you don't count as unemployed.

I've seen the defintion game in action when New Zealand redefined "unemployed" and the unemployment rate shifted by several percentage points - so yes it can make a significant difference.

Which is not to say that you aren't perfectly correct. It could well be that unemployment is a far more serious problem in France and Germany. But it might in fact be less of a problem. The definitons, and resulting figures can vary sufficiently that without knowing how those numbers are derived its all rather meaningless.

You;re comparing a couple of fruit without telling whether they're both apples, or apples and oranges. As such, the comparison is meaningless.


Re:low unemployment compared to europe (1)

AaronGTurner (731883) | about 10 years ago | (#10347112)

Rather than take the official figures from the US government or French government (or the UK government - around 4%) it is best to take figures from international bodies that use the same criteria for determining what counts as unemployed. I remember back in thw 1980s when unemployment was very high in the UK and there were about 20 adjustments to how the figures were calculated, all of which had the effect of reducing the counts. I am sure the US, UK, France, Germany, etc cook the books to a certain extent, they may just be cooking them differently which makes comparasions difficult. would be the obvious place to look for figures at least on a consistent basis (although not necessarily balanced and fair - the ILO has its own agenda I am sure) but I can't find an obvious link to unemployment figures on that site. There are probably other organisations, the ILO was just the one that sprung to mind in my pre-coffee state.

Oh, super! (2)

illuminata (668963) | about 10 years ago | (#10346970)

Based on this post, I'm guessing that Slashdot is working on another section, perhaps a subsection to the Politics one.

I think it's gonna be called Propaganda.

Makes me wonder if it's even worth the effort considering that line really blurs with the editors.

Maybe they can make the slogan "Viewpoints for Nerds. As if journalism matters."

Yeah, fuck that journalism stuff!

Men suck at eating pussy (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346973)

Not because they don't like it but because it's really fucking hard. You have to learn it. Giving good head is the key to just about everything in life (including getting good head later on), so it's time we broke it down. Like this. The secret to giving good head is to read the signs. You could be the best sexual mechanic in the world, but if you can't read the emotional road signs, you're going to end up wandering around in a desolate labial wasteland until, eventually, you drop from exhaustion, hot tears of confusion streaming down your face.

Think of eating the puss as your way of saying, "although I am about to rock your insides with 3 000 lbs. of explosives, here's a little intimate treat session to show you how I really feel." Instead of a screaming "OH MY GOD!!" like her baby has been trapped under a car (which is what fucking should do), cunnilingus elicits a more splendiferous "ooohmygodohmygodohmygod." Kind of like being massaged with exotic fruits by a muscular Arab oil sheik. A good mange (that's French for "eat," you brutes) is like a thousand years of Saturdays or a "Calgon, take me away" ad. Break it down!

Don't go down unless you're down. Unlike fellatio, cunnilingus can never be done as a favor. Doing it when you don't want to will only bring on the dry heaves. Eat like a pig at the trough and a lot of stupid mistakes get forgiven.

A dry pussy is an unhappy pussy. If your fingers graze a dry bush, go back to the kissing and hugging for awhile. Just make sure you actually dip your finger between the lips. Sometimes moisture gets trapped between the labia and a little fingerial coaxing is all that's needed to get the honey dripping. Once you're sure the beaver is wet, give it a few light, teasing strokes with your finger. There's nothing worse than rushing into this, so make sure she's really begging for it before you get under the covers.

Extra tip: Be like Prince and bring up a wet finger that both of you can share like a 1950s milkshake with two straws.

Important: Don't play your trump card too soon by putting your fingers all the way inside. This can detract from the upcoming penetration and kill the tease factor. Try to remember that 78% of a woman's pleasure is about yearning. Poking it in too soon is sure to put out the fire.

Once she's lathered up, it's time to go down. Get your fingers out of there and don't touch anything for a bit. Let your lap do a bit of grinding and get some last-minute necking in like you're going away on vacation.

Though it's very tempting on your way down to pull the blankets over your head like the little mole-man that you are, this is a very bad idea. It gets super hot down there and whipping the duvet off your head and gasping for air ten seconds before she comes is pretty much going to kill the mood. Start by kissing her boobs and stomach and slowly working your way down. Don't get carried away with those stupid tits, though. That's something you should have taken care of before the pants even came off. Right now it's all about the stomach and inner thighs. A little bit of gentle biting is good, but a sure winner is to start at the knee and move towards the muff in a slow, shark-like swoop. Nibble your way right up to the edge of her cunt, then skip across it and head for the other knee. Repeat. Doing this a few times will get her really hot and save you a lot of pussy-eating time in the long run.

When you're just about ready to do the deed, start practicing on that weird crevice next to the lips. Don't spend too long there or she might start to think that you think that's the actual cunt. By now she should be dying for you to make your move. If you're doing it right, she'll be moaning and trying to force your head between her legs. Stretch this phase out until she looks like she's been holding her breath for three days. Extra trick: Hover over the bush for about five seconds before the first lick. If you wait longer than that, she might think you're having second thoughts because it smells bad. Of course, we all knows that motherfucker smells sweeter than a bowl of steamin' crawdaddies. Important: Never bite the cunt in any way whatsoever. If this needs more explaining you should probably just stick to jerking off.

Isolate your playing field. Pubic hairs are to eating pussy what the Cavity Creeps are to dental hygiene. You're never going to be able to identify all the parts if she looks like that PIL album That What is Not. One hot trick is to get her to spread her lips apart so her pussy is all set up for you like a great big buffet.

Do your first lick super slow. It's good to groan and moan too. It shows you're digging it while sending microscopic audiophonic vibrations right up her snapper. Start just above the anus and take it all the way to the fur. Do about a dozen of these "St. Bernard licks" before moving on (take it really slow, like four seconds per lick). This is a good time to figure out what kind of clit she has. If it's real sensitive she'll probably convulse as you pass over it and that means you're probably in for an easy ride. If there's no reaction when you graze over her clit, she probably has one of those nerveless little pea clits and you're in for a thirty-minute session of tongue-tendinitis.

Eating pussy is so gentle it can make you feel like a bit of a fag. If you're getting tired of being ballerina boy, take it out on the clit. Figure out how much abuse it can take without making her uncomfortable and show the little bastard who's boss. After all, Mr. Elusive is precisely what makes muff diving so difficult. He's surrounded by labia and, even after you find him, all the pressure can pop him over to the side. All of a sudden you're giving the pee hole the seeing to of its life. Think of the clit like a tumor in a pile of ear lobes. When you push down on the area he's the only one that can't be squished. Once one of your tongue troopers finds him, call for reinforcements. Use your lips to get hers out of the way and focus all your attention into getting him alone. Once you find him, give him a bit of a hard time for trying to hide from you. Frisk him and give him a couple of whacks across the head. More on this punk and his bad attitude later. Extra important tip: The best way to stimulate the clit is to run your entire tongue over it after you isolate it from the lips. The man in the Boat should feel the texture of the entire tongue pushing down on his body and his boat.

After the slow licks it's time to get this party started. There are essentially two types of clitori. Ones that enjoy a serious going over and ones that don't. The latter suck about as much as a one-inch penis and you should dump her right away.

Extra tip: Clits come in all shapes, sizes and sensitivities, but that doesn't really tell you much. All of them want to be treated slow and soft at the beginning but the only way to tell if you can go fast at the end is by reading her reactions. This is impossible to teach but just do the best you can. All we can tell you is convulsing means take it ease and "Oh my God" means bring it on.

These are the most fun because you can be creative. Pretend your tongue is the bad cop and the clit is the guy who killed your partner. Separate him from his buddies (the lips) and suck him right up into your mouth. Now he's on your turf. Keep him erect by creating an air-tight vacuum chamber in your mouth. Slap the little bugger upside the head with one big tongue bonk. He's not going to tell you shit because he's a clit and he has no idea what you're talking about, but kick his ass anyway. After a few teasers and swirling circles, rat-a-tat-tat him senseless like a boxer whacking a speed bag. If she starts freaking out like it's too much, ease up on the interrogation and go back to the St. Bernard licks. The vacuum is a great way to bring her to orgasm, but it's a bit much sometimes, so mix things up with some circles around the clit and some tongue fucking.

As you're closing in for the kill, go back to the vacuum and give the suspect a relentless head smacking. Up-and-downies are usually the most effective, but your tongue will get less tired if you throw in a few side-to-sides. When you feel the inner thighs start to shake, this is it. Be repetitive. Do NOT be creative. You're almost home and this is not the time to start changing tactics.

Extra tip: To keep the rhythm going, try repeating a chant in your head that goes with the movement of your tongue like a Mic Mac Indian (hi-yi-yi-ya, hi-yi-yi-ya, hi-yi-yi-ya). Any inconsistent action may throw her off, killing the mood or at least setting you back a few minutes, which is bad for morale.

Important: Keep going several seconds after her orgasm. Remember, it isn't over until the hands come down from above and lay you off. If she's multi-orgasmic you'll have to keep going until you've done the whole routine another four or five times. If you're not sure what to do, just keep giving her shit until the magic hands come down to pull you off.

Some clits don't want to be singled out and battered around. These are the boring ones that need to be treated with gentle care. Just do casual St. Bernard licks until she cums, pure and simple. If you're getting bored try going in some different directions for a while. A good way to keep it random is to spell out different letters of the alphabet with the tip of your tongue. You could be looking at half an hour here pal, and that can be problematic. If you go for that long and she doesn't cum, you're going to be in a foul mood, so if it's too much work, move on. On the bright side, going for thirty minutes is something few people have the patience for, so sticking it out will lead to some payback when period week comes around.

Once you're done (totally finished) she's going to want you out of there pronto because the whole area is sensitive. Instead of leaving, stick out your tongue and lay it down on her like a thick, soggy carpet. Make sure you don't move it or anything because that can actually hurt her. Just let it sit there like a dead manta ray for about thirty seconds. Then come up and wipe your face like a pirate. You now have a good minute to get the condom on and take her from the quarters of Prince Muhammad Muhammad Saddat to the cockpit of an F-15.

Re:Men suck at eating pussy (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347067)

Thanks for the read!

Oh no neither party is helping (4, Insightful)

redhotchil (44670) | about 10 years ago | (#10346976)

Oh no neither party is helping? Gee.. wouldn't it be great if there were other parties besides the Dems and Reps? OH WAIT

Re:Oh no neither party is helping (1)

Tatarize (682683) | about 10 years ago | (#10347115)

Yeah, though to be fair... Dems don't have President, House, Senate, SCOTUS, or Governors. So that leaves nothing. With no power they aren't helping. That's fairly obvious.

Re:Oh no neither party is helping (1)

FauxPasIII (75900) | about 10 years ago | (#10347116)

Are you in Colorado? Then fight like hell to pass the referendum allowing electoral college votes to be assigned proportional to
the popular vote. Not in CO? Then fight for a similar ballot referendum in your state. This could be the beginning of the rise of
the Third Parties.

More info. []

Neither candidate is dancing the hoochie coo (0, Troll)

stratjakt (596332) | about 10 years ago | (#10346979)

Thats not an article or a submission, thats a two sentence observation.

michael is so friggin transparent you hardly know when he's here, (except for dopey stuff like this)

Re:Neither candidate is dancing the hoochie coo (2, Insightful)

Bill_Royle (639563) | about 10 years ago | (#10347077)

Agreed. Twice today we've had whining that draws directly from the Kerry camp:

1. It's a bad economy, and things are getting worse.
2. Google's evil, because searching for John Kerry in the news section shows a lot of negative articles.

First off, the economy isn't doing badly - I'm right here in the valley, and things are picking up quite nicely. Is it at dotcom levels? No - and that's ok too. After all, the dotcom era was essentially a lot of people spending money while providing no real service or product. Sooner or later, the economy pays the price for that kind of crap.

Second, Kerry's getting more negative articles written about him because his campaign is virtually tripping over itself to incur more PR drubbings. The race was Kerry's to lose, and he's well on his way if they don't get it together.

One way or the other, it's a joke to try to disguise this as some sort of outsourcing article... try attaching an example to your editorial commentary.

ohh no... more complaining..more gov.. more probs (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346981)

People lose their jobs because they are not productive enough to keep them. Don't blame the hand that feeds you(Capitalism), blame the educational system that shields us from some real learning until we are out of college. Of course we are not productive.. most of us destroy our abilities to think straight due to high school and college education. Our generation is the one that is going to have to suffer... but lets get it over with, take the paycut, work for less, but start dismantling the cancer(gov edu,gov regulation) People... don't whine, learn

Re:ohh no... more complaining..more gov.. more pro (1)

detlev409 (673380) | about 10 years ago | (#10347062)

Wow, thanks. I'll be sure and let my Dad know that his 24.5 years of working for the same company were obviously not productive enough. Isn't it funny how we all become unproductive just before retirement? F=ing Troll.

poor choice of story for slashdot frontpage (0, Troll)

auzy (680819) | about 10 years ago | (#10346985)

I dont think a story like this really belongs on slashdot to be honest, especially not the front page, and is a better choice for other sites. The reason I feel this is because a large percentage of readers are not American, and articles like this inevitably result in 50% of the forum threads being flamebait because of feelings towards the political parties at the moment.

The story itself is just a massive advertisement to vote against Bush too.

At least, thats just my personal opinion. Either way, I know I wont be trying to moderate anyone in this thread, because every second post will look like trolling or flamebait depending on the perspective of the reader.

Anyone else agree?

Re:poor choice of story for slashdot frontpage (4, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | about 10 years ago | (#10347013)

"The story itself is just a massive advertisement to vote against Bush too."

Why? According to Bush the economy is doing great. If Bush is good for jobs then this thread may be an advertisement for voting for bush. It's only anti bush if Bush is horrible for jobs in the country.

" I know I wont be trying to moderate anyone in this thread, because every second post will look like trolling or flamebait depending on the perspective of the reader."

I have to agree with you there. I have never seen our country divided so much. The people who relish driving wedges to set the country apart have been very successful. I don't know what it would take to get the country back together again. Maybe if we had a president that was a "uniter not a divider" things would be different.

Re:poor choice of story for slashdot frontpage (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347014)

What matters. Good ? Bad ? Simply post.

Advertisement. ( Bush/Kerry )Whigs. Simply post.

Low rung on the ladder. Out of moderation points.

These are not questions. Simply post.

Slashdot. And. A fire-hydrant. A simple post.
Psssst. Social Engineering.

Re:poor choice of story for slashdot frontpage (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347023)

No one forced you to read this thread. This is an American site with American news. If you want some other kinds of news, submit an article.

Re:poor choice of story for slashdot frontpage (1)

Goosey (654680) | about 10 years ago | (#10347065)

agreed. Poor choice of a 'story'

Any bias? (2, Insightful)

professorfalcon (713985) | about 10 years ago | (#10346986)

Randall Burns ... recently helped create the Kucinich campaign's position paper on H-1b/L-1 visas.

I guess he hates both Kerry and Bush equally. Should we call him non-partisan?

Re:Any bias? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346992)

I guess he hates both Kerry and Bush equally. Should we call him non-partisan?

I personally would call him non-contributing.

Re:Any bias? (1)

N3WBI3 (595976) | about 10 years ago | (#10347012)

Umm Kucinich has put his support behind Kerry, dont really think he qualifies as no-partisan..

Re:Any bias? (1)

glarbl_blarbl (810253) | about 10 years ago | (#10347054)

...RTFA, since the last two paragraphs are all about telling you that the only rational choice this year is Ralph Nader. I listened to Mr. Nader speak the other day on C-Span, and was greatly moved. I wish I could vote for him again, but the danger of 4 more years is too great. JGB

Simple: make your own job. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10346987)

For software geeks it's easy. Lose your job and compete with your former boss who's outsourced everything oversees an now has communication challenges with his devel team.

Sure his company's engineers are cheaper, but your new company's CEO is cheaper.

Thats not the major problem (4, Insightful)

lowell (66406) | about 10 years ago | (#10346989)

The problem is that these men who represent our presidential canidates, are the best that the parties could come up with. Out of everyone in the whole country. These four pricks. Thats insane. If this is the best that the dems and republicans can come up with then we need some different parties invovled in politics.

Re:Thats not the major problem (1)

Vectorferret (814726) | about 10 years ago | (#10347010)

Both parties can come up with better, they just didn't. (John McCain and Wesley Clark come to mind.)

No one wants the job (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347020)

If you are good enough to do the job of Prez, you are also likely to be sane enough to not want the job.

Re:No one wants the job (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347076)

Good Point. Also, the parties aren't coming up with the best candidates. They're placing their bets on the horse that they think can win. You might have some super intelligent guy with 5 different ph.d.s but who doesn't look presidential or can't give a speech or the very fact that he has so much advanced education would make him seem out of touch with Joe voter. So the parties pass him up for some guy that is kind of good looking, well connected, charismatic, and who served in some way in the armed services. Because that person is more likely to provide good 10 sec sound bytes on TV.

Heck even people I know who hate Bush as a president would still like to have a beer with him at a bar. If you're some dude in middle America who cares more about football than who the leader of Pakistan is, who would you vote for?

So are the candidates the best America can produce? No. They're just some guys that each party thinks has a chance at beating the other party's candidate.

LOL!! (2, Insightful)

here4fun (813136) | about 10 years ago | (#10347117)

The problem is that these men who represent our presidential canidates, are the best that the parties could come up with. Out of everyone in the whole country. These four pricks. Thats insane. If this is the best that the dems and republicans can come up with then we need some different parties invovled in politics.

LOL, Out of everyone "these four pricks"? I don't think it is the party that picked them. It is special interest and money that picked them. The candidates that can be purchased get picked. Look at Cheney and Haliburton. Look at Edwards and the Trial Lawyers. It does not matter what party gets in the white house, they are pretty much the same. What we need is campaign finance reform.

Free Trade (2, Insightful)

lisabeeren (657508) | about 10 years ago | (#10346999)

Welcome to the wonderful world of free trade. Not only does free trade totally destroy 3rd world countries, it harms 1st world one's too.

Re:Free Trade (2, Insightful)

Asterisk (16357) | about 10 years ago | (#10347060)

Because we all now how much better off everyone is when they can only consume the products they've made with their own hands.

Re:Free Trade (1)

DrAegoon (738446) | about 10 years ago | (#10347095)

"Free trade screws everyone." I like it.

Really this shouldn't be a surprise. In a fair/close fight all parties take their blows. To support real free trade, you need to be one cold hearted bastard and supremely confident in the security of your job and the ability of your country to make a better product.

Since most people/countries aren't in that position, we have pseudo-free trade: every country for itself, whoever fights dirtiest wins. How else do China and India maintain their positions?

The US's problem is this: to be viable in the knock down, drag out that is foreign trade, you have to get down in the dirt with the rest of them. The tactics that will hurt countries like India and China aren't very desireable and will inevitably hurt the US economy in the short run since they all involve making the foreign labor sources (and labor in general) more expensive. It's not easy to explain to the voting public that such moves are for its own good.

Did Israel know about 9/11? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347004)

THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis - and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

Their discovery and arrest that morning is a matter of indisputable fact. To those who have investigated just what the Israelis were up to that day, the case raises one dreadful possibility: that Israeli intelligence had been shadowing the al-Qaeda hijackers as they moved from the Middle East through Europe and into America where they trained as pilots and prepared to suicide-bomb the symbolic heart of the United States. And the motive? To bind America in blood and mutual suffering to the Israeli cause.

After the attacks on New York and Washington, the former Israeli Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, was asked what the terrorist strikes would mean for US-Israeli relations. He said: "It's very good." Then he corrected himself, adding: "Well, it's not good, but it will generate immediate sympathy [for Israel from Americans]."

If Israel's closest ally felt the collective pain of mass civilian deaths at the hands of terrorists, then Israel would have an unbreakable bond with the world's only hyperpower and an effective free hand in dealing with the Palestinian terrorists who had been murdering its innocent civilians as the second intifada dragged on throughout 2001.

It's not surprising that the New Jersey housewife who first spotted the five Israelis and their white van wants to preserve her anonymity. She's insisted that she only be identified as Maria. A neighbour in her apartment building had called her just after the first strike on the Twin Towers. Maria grabbed a pair of binoculars and, like millions across the world, she watched the horror of the day unfold.

As she gazed at the burning towers, she noticed a group of men kneeling on the roof of a white van in her parking lot. Here's her recollection: "They seemed to be taking a movie. They were like happy, you know ... they didn't look shocked to me. I thought it was strange."

Maria jotted down the van's registration and called the police. The FBI was alerted and soon there was a statewide all points bulletin put out for the apprehension of the van and its occupants. The cops traced the number, establishing that it belonged to a company called Urban Moving.

Police Chief John Schmidig said: "We got an alert to be on the lookout for a white Chevrolet van with New Jersey registration and writing on the side. Three individuals were seen celebrating in Liberty State Park after the impact. They said three people were jumping up and down."

By 4pm on the afternoon of September 11, the van was spotted near New Jersey's Giants stadium. A squad car pulled it over and inside were five men in their 20s. They were hustled out of the car with guns levelled at their heads and handcuffed.

In the car was $4700 in cash, a couple of foreign passports and a pair of box cutters - the concealed Stanley Knife-type blades used by the 19 hijackers who'd flown jetliners into the World Trade Centre and Pentagon just hours before. There were also fresh pictures of the men standing with the smouldering wreckage of the Twin Towers in the background. One image showed a hand flicking a lighter in front of the devastated buildings, like a fan at a pop concert. The driver of the van then told the arresting officers: "We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem."

His name was Sivan Kurzberg. The other four passengers were Kurzberg's brother Paul, Yaron Shmuel, Oded Ellner and Omer Marmari. The men were dragged off to prison and transferred out of the custody of the FBI's Criminal Division and into the hands of their Foreign Counterintelligence Section - the bureau's anti-espionage squad.

A warrant was issued for a search of the Urban Moving premises in Weehawken in New Jersey. Boxes of papers and computers were removed. The FBI questioned the firm's Israeli owner, Dominik Otto Suter, but when agents returned to re-interview him a few days later, he was gone. An employee of Urban Moving said his co-workers had laughed about the Manhattan attacks the day they happened. "I was in tears," the man said. "These guys were joking and that bothered me. These guys were like, 'Now America knows what we go through.'"

Vince Cannistraro, former chief of operations for counter-terrorism with the CIA, says the red flag went up among investigators when it was discovered that some of the Israelis' names were found in a search of the national intelligence database. Cannistraro says many in the US intelligence community believed that some of the Israelis were working for Mossad and there was speculation over whether Urban Moving had been "set up or exploited for the purpose of launching an intelligence operation against radical Islamists".

This makes it clear that there was no suggestion whatsoever from within American intelligence that the Israelis were colluding with the 9/11 hijackers - simply that the possibility remains that they knew the attacks were going to happen, but effectively did nothing to help stop them.

After the owner vanished, the offices of Urban Moving looked as if they'd been closed down in a big hurry. Mobile phones were littered about, the office phones were still connected and the property of at least a dozen clients were stacked up in the warehouse. The owner had cleared out his family home in New Jersey and returned to Israel.

Two weeks after their arrest, the Israelis were still in detention, held on immigration charges. Then a judge ruled that they should be deported. But the CIA scuppered the deal and the five remained in custody for another two months. Some went into solitary confinement, all underwent two polygraph tests and at least one underwent up to seven lie detector sessions before they were eventually deported at the end of November 2001. Paul Kurzberg refused to take a lie detector test for 10 weeks, but then failed it. His lawyer said he was reluctant to take the test as he had once worked for Israeli intelligence in another country.

Nevertheless, their lawyer, Ram Horvitz, dismissed the allegations as "stupid and ridiculous". Yet US government sources still maintained that the Israelis were collecting information on the fundraising activities of groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. Mark Regev, of the Israeli embassy in Washington, would have none of that and he said the allegations were "simply false". The men themselves claimed they'd read about the World Trade Centre attacks on the internet, couldn't see it from their office and went to the parking lot for a better view. Their lawyers and the embassy say their ghoulish and sinister celebrations as the Twin Towers blazed and thousands died were due to youthful foolishness.

The respected New York Jewish newspaper, The Forward, reported in March 2002, however, that it had received a briefing on the case of the five Israelis from a US official who was regularly updated by law enforcement agencies. This is what he told The Forward: "The assessment was that Urban Moving Systems was a front for the Mossad and operatives employed by it." He added that "the conclusion of the FBI was that they were spying on local Arabs", but the men were released because they "did not know anything about 9/11".

Back in Israel, several of the men discussed what happened on an Israeli talk show. One of them made this remarkable comment: "The fact of the matter is we are coming from a country that experiences terror daily. Our purpose was to document the event." But how can you document an event unless you know it is going to happen?

We are now deep in conspiracy theory territory. But there is more than a little circumstantial evidence to show that Mossad - whose motto is "By way of deception, thou shalt do war" - was spying on Arab extremists in the USA and may have known that September 11 was in the offing, yet decided to withhold vital information from their American counterparts which could have prevented the terror attacks.

Following September 11, 2001, more than 60 Israelis were taken into custody under the Patriot Act and immigration laws. One highly placed investigator told Carl Cameron of Fox News that there were "tie-ins" between the Israelis and September 11; the hint was clearly that they'd gathered intelligence on the planned attacks but kept it to themselves.

The Fox News source refused to give details, saying: "Evidence linking these Israelis to 9/11 is classified. I cannot tell you about evidence that has been gathered. It's classified information." Fox News is not noted for its condemnation of Israel; it's a ruggedly patriotic news channel owned by Rupert Murdoch and was President Bush's main cheerleader in the war on terror and the invasion of Iraq.

Another group of around 140 Israelis were detained prior to September 11, 2001, in the USA as part of a widespread investigation into a suspected espionage ring run by Israel inside the USA. Government documents refer to the spy ring as an "organised intelligence-gathering operation" designed to "penetrate government facilities". Most of those arrested had served in the Israeli armed forces - but military service is compulsory in Israel. Nevertheless, a number had an intelligence background.

The first glimmerings of an Israeli spying exercise in the USA came to light in spring 2001, when the FBI sent a warning to other federal agencies alerting them to be wary of visitors calling themselves "Israeli art students" and attempting to bypass security at federal buildings in order to sell paintings. A Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report suggested the Israeli calls "may well be an organised intelligence-gathering activity". Law enforcement documents say that the Israelis "targeted and penetrated military bases" as well as the DEA, FBI and dozens of government facilities, including secret offices and the unlisted private homes of law enforcement and intelligence personnel.

A number of Israelis questioned by the authorities said they were students from Bezalel Academy of Art and Design, but Pnina Calpen, a spokeswoman for the Israeli school, did not recognise the names of any Israelis mentioned as studying there in the past 10 years. A federal report into the so-called art students said many had served in intelligence and electronic signal intercept units during their military service.

According to a 61-page report, drafted after an investigation by the DEA and the US immigration service, the Israelis were organised into cells of four to six people. The significance of what the Israelis were doing didn't emerge until after September 11, 2001, when a report by a French intelligence agency noted "according to the FBI, Arab terrorists and suspected terror cells lived in Phoenix, Arizona, as well as in Miami and Hollywood, Florida, from December 2000 to April 2001 in direct proximity to the Israeli spy cells".

The report contended that Mossad agents were spying on Mohammed Atta and Marwan al-Shehi, two of leaders of the 9/11 hijack teams. The pair had settled in Hollywood, Florida, along with three other hijackers, after leaving Hamburg - where another Mossad team was operating close by.

Hollywood in Florida is a town of just 25,000 souls. The French intelligence report says the leader of the Mossad cell in Florida rented apartments "right near the apartment of Atta and al-Shehi". More than a third of the Israeli "art students" claimed residence in Florida. Two other Israelis connected to the art ring showed up in Fort Lauderdale. At one time, eight of the hijackers lived just north of the town.

Put together, the facts do appear to indicate that Israel knew that 9/11, or at least a large-scale terror attack, was about to take place on American soil, but did nothing to warn the USA. But that's not quite true. In August 2001, the Israelis handed over a list of terrorist suspects - on it were the names of four of the September 11 hijackers. Significantly, however, the warning said the terrorists were planning an attack "outside the United States".

The Israeli embassy in Washington has dismissed claims about the spying ring as "simply untrue". The same denials have been issued repeatedly by the five Israelis seen high-fiving each other as the World Trade Centre burned in front of them.

Their lawyer, Ram Horwitz, insisted his clients were not intelligence officers. Irit Stoffer, the Israeli foreign minister, said the allegations were "completely untrue". She said the men were arrested because of "visa violations", adding: "The FBI investigated those cases because of 9/11."

Jim Margolin, an FBI spokesman in New York, implied that the public would never know the truth, saying: "If we found evidence of unauthorised intelligence operations that would be classified material." Yet, Israel has long been known, according to US administration sources, for "conducting the most aggressive espionage operations against the US of any US ally". Seventeen years ago, Jonathan Pollard, a civilian working for the American Navy, was jailed for life for passing secrets to Israel. At first, Israel claimed Pollard was part of a rogue operation, but the government later took responsibility for his work.

It has always been a long-accepted agreement among allies - such as Britain and America or America and Israel - that neither country will jail a "friendly spy" nor shame the allied country for espionage. Chip Berlet, a senior analyst at Boston's Political Research Associates and an expert in intelligence, says: "It's a backdoor agreement between allies that says that if one of your spies gets caught and didn't do too much harm, he goes home. It goes on all the time. The official reason is always visa violation."

What we are left with, then, is fact sullied by innuendo. Certainly, it seems, Israel was spying within the borders of the United States and it is equally certain that the targets were Islamic extremists probably linked to September 11. But did Israel know in advance that the Twin Towers would be hit and the world plunged into a war without end; a war which would give Israel the power to strike its enemies almost without limit? That's a conspiracy theory too far, perhaps. But the unpleasant feeling that, in this age of spin and secrets, we do not know the full and unadulterated truth won't go away. Maybe we can guess, but it's for the history books to discover and decide.

Wow, we're fucked (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347011)

I am one of the folks who is unemployed but not counted. I get sporadic work, so I forego even bothering with unemployment during the gaps. This whole situation sucks, there's no way out, and I'm depressed.

Where is American Society going (4, Insightful)

Epeeist (2682) | about 10 years ago | (#10347016)

It is difficult to be sure from a distance (I live in the UK), but what seems to be happening in the States is a move to what I can best call a neo-feudal society.

At the top end you have the rich and super-rich, with limited call on their wealth in terms of taxes.

At the bottom end you seem to have people who have to hold down more than one job to make ends meet, have limited access to medical care and whose children receive only a poor quality education.

This leaves your middle classes, who are being squeezed. If they don't work in a service that requires personal contact then they are in danger of being outsourced to cheaper locations elswhere on the globe.

Barons, serfs and guilds is the way it appears to be. It isn't quite as extreme here in Britain, but we are going the same way.

Bang! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347044)

Yeah but here we have the right to bear arms! Woo hoo! I know what I'm doing with my last $1,000!

Civilizations A Call To Power (so underrated) (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347063)

Called it a Corporate Republic.

Re:Where is American Society going (4, Insightful)

Twirlip of the Mists (615030) | about 10 years ago | (#10347070)

Please reconcile your comment with recent Department of Labor statistics which report that entrepreneurship is at an all-time high.

When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. When all you want to talk about is classism, every society appears stratified.

Ohio is a mess... (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347032)

Data just came out showing that Cleveland, Ohio has the largest unemployment rate of any major city in the US. Cincinnati is on the brink of (and has fallen into) racial and class conflict. The whole state is an unbelieveable mess and it appears that even with an inept Republican govenor that Ohio will vote Republican and give the rich and corporations more and more tax cuts which they, in turn, will use to buy more foreign products and fund more outsourcing projects.

Distribution of wealth is an nasty necessity that is created by the greed in all of us (once I hit the million dollar threshold I will give to the less fortunate - then it's once I become one of the 331 billionaires in the US -- well you get the drift...). Anyway, the Republicans have never and will never talk about redistribution of wealth. Flat taxes and sales taxes are rigged against the poor, but people seem to think they are a great idea because of conservative thinktank spin.

The Democrats may have become as much of the problem as the Republicans, but at least they are still talking about these issues. I can't for the life of me undersand why a the population of a state on the brink of disaster would vote for a party that still talks about supply side economics and trickle down. I shake my head and then realize that to be a politician these days you have to be rich already -- it's no wonder that we are where we are.

There will never be another farmer from Illinois in the Whitehouse, and I just don't see any solutions on the horizon...

Re:Ohio is a mess... (5, Interesting)

killjoe (766577) | about 10 years ago | (#10347097)

There was a study done recently that showed the people in the worst economic conditions tended to vote republican even though the bad economic conditions were caused by republicans. So places like Montana which have been controlled by republicans for over a decade and still have the some of the lowest wages and worst economies continue to vote for republicans overwhelminly.

The author thought that it was due to cultural issues. I guess if somebody is doing bad you can always blame the homosexuals and the fornicators.

Re:Ohio is a mess... (3, Insightful)

myowntrueself (607117) | about 10 years ago | (#10347105)

"Data just came out showing that Cleveland, Ohio has the largest unemployment rate of any major city in the US. Cincinnati is on the brink of (and has fallen into) racial and class conflict."

Thats an interesting observation.

European nations can probably tolerate a much higher unemployment level before getting this sort of social unrest; in the US the unemployed have so much less to lose by being, uh, antisocial in one way or another.

Pathetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347052)

This article is not economics, not public policy, not even deserving opinion. Just the typical xenophobic, bigoted kind of rant that the nativist crowd likes to engage in. Anti-immigrant sentiment is the omnivorous reptile in the fauna of politics. A recession with falling wages? Cheap immigrant labor must be to blame. Terrorism? Without immigration there wouldn't be any. Traffic? Too many immigrants must have moved in. Whatever the issue at hand, the subterfuged racism of the nativist crowd always translates into an immigration problem.

The fact is that economic theory is perfectly clear: everyone is both a consumer and a producer, so if a worker moves into an economy, he or she creates his or her own job. If anything, migrant labor helps to smooth out local recessions by being able to move back and forth across the border.

Please, keep cheap-ass bigotry off the front page.

I'm a micro-view of the job situation (4, Insightful)

parliboy (233658) | about 10 years ago | (#10347066)

I graduated in May with a degree in Education and another in Computer Science. I can't get permanent work in either. In Houston. The epicenter of Bushism.

All the layoffs of recent times have flooded the teaching ranks with people getting alternative certification. Add to that a recent flood of people who spent years in other roles in education just now finishing their degrees, and the new teachers are getting pushed out. That whole ETS scoring fiasco [] didn't help either.

Read again to understand this: there are too many teachers. People in other countries may not understand the gravity of this, but for people who are used to teachers being the most pissed on of American professionals, this should be the ultimate sign of how bad things are right now.

Re:I'm a micro-view of the job situation (1)

Alioth (221270) | about 10 years ago | (#10347109)

Dunno about the immigration issues, but Britain is currently moaning about a teacher *shortage*. Sure, if you move to Britain you won't get paid anywhere near as much.

Immigration policy (5, Insightful)

Tim C (15259) | about 10 years ago | (#10347079)

Yeah, it's always the fault of those pesky foreigners [] ...

Racismdot (4, Insightful)

Lurker McLurker (730170) | about 10 years ago | (#10347081)

Well, I never expected to see this story on the front page of slashdot. What next?

Sad Day For /. (4, Insightful)

R.Caley (126968) | about 10 years ago | (#10347087)

When the rantings on a xenophobic loonie site are presented as fact.

Indeed So... (5, Interesting)

MMMDI (815272) | about 10 years ago | (#10347091)

The job market in this particular state (Delaware) is completely shot to hell and back. In February of 2002, the local DuPont plant laid off almost half of the entire work-force, including myself. I have been unemployed since then, and those unemployment benefits ran out back in November 2002... not fun. At first, I was a bit picky about my next job, I'll admit; having just lost a $15/hour job (with no college education, which is another rant for another time), I really didn't want to drop down to a McDonalds job due to the obvious decrease in the weekly check. After I realized that finding a similar-paying job wasn't going to happen, I went out to the usual teenie-employers to try my luck... Wal*Mart, Burger King, etc etc. I've been unsuccessful even with these places, and have been since I've started my job-hunting two and a half years ago. For the record, there's nothing about me that would lead someone to not hire me, such as criminal records, disability, race, any of that nonsense. (Obviously, those aren't supposed to matter, but speaking for this state, it does). Wrapping up my sob-story, moving to a new state is out of the question due to personal reasons involving my daughter, so we're stuck here. Always nice to hear Bush on TV saying that the economy is great, hah.

As an American I can say... (0, Troll)

Mustang Matt (133426) | about 10 years ago | (#10347108)

If Americans were better workers employers wouldn't be looking oversees for employees.

You cannot separate "Job Crunch" and intl trade... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10347119)

Seems extremely myopic to me to bandy about a term like 'job crunch' while ignoring other factors which contribute and effect the overall situ.

We're s(p)ending billions of dollars in trade over to the People's Republic of China, where the govt. has so much control over the people and trade that they've given themselves extreme advantages which have resulted in extreme amounts of Chinese made goods just about everywhere. Meanwhile, we're losing tons of manufacturing related jobs in this country and STILL our own government doesn't even seem to blink?!! WTF? And not only that...what about intellectual property? Huh? Hardly enforced (not surprising considering their ideological backgroud)

I'm those who's job it is to study these things could certainly comment much more accurately and in greater detail, but my perception is that our govt. aside from not being able to stimulate the economy sufficiently to create enough jobs, seem to be sitting on their well-paid asses not giving a tinkers cuss about how trade affects job growth.
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