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Have a Nice Steaming Cup of Java 5

michael posted about 10 years ago | from the milk-and-sugar dept.

Java 859

wap writes "The language/VM/religion that everyone loves to hate is now serving another cup: Java 1.5 is ready for download. The new features of 1.5 have been discussed here before. I, for one, welcome our new virtual machine overlord. I have been using the release candidate, and startup times are noticeably faster, as is overall performance, and the new features like typesafe collections and static imports are great to have. Let the Java flames begin!"

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mono sucks (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393152)

yeah!

Thanks to our supporters (5, Funny)

NoInfo (247461) | about 10 years ago | (#10393153)

"This release was made possible by our world-wide development community.

Oh, yeah, and ridiculously large settlement payments by Microsoft."

Re:Thanks to our supporters (1)

cermanius (814292) | about 10 years ago | (#10393261)

Wait, if it was made possible by the world-wide development community, which I'm a part of, where's my damned cut? Where's my pay check?

Or is this like those Public Broadcasting Station things where it's like "This was made possible by people like you. Thank You. Come again."

Re:Thanks to our supporters (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393323)

I hate to say this, but:
your cut is the fact you can use it for free!

A. Coward

RMS ALMOST KILLED IN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393310)

http://www.wiggy.net/tmp/accident/

Don't think it a joke.

Re:RMS ALMOST KILLED IN ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393369)

It's in the dutch news too. http://www.webwereld.nl/nieuws/19639.phtml [webwereld.nl]

Re:Thanks to our supporters (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393317)

Don't forget the competition from C#. Java, after all, has been in the doldrums for years until Microsoft stepped up and in one leap jumped right over the sloth-like Java. Now, at least, Sun has to make a token effort at making Java less sucky.

Not that they have much of a chance. Not only is C# a nicer language than Java, but the VM is more flexible. Frankly it's game over as far as non-zealots are concerned. We even have the CLR and C# on Linux thanks to Mono. Java is dead for everyone but those companies who bought into Sun's bullshit a couple of years ago and moved critical infrastructure onto it -- suckers.

My question is... (0, Offtopic)

beware of the robot (814413) | about 10 years ago | (#10393154)

When is the selv-aware Java version due?

oh great (2, Funny)

liquidpele (663430) | about 10 years ago | (#10393164)

This had to be a morning artical didn't it...
"steaming cup of java" indeed. Now i'm going to have to go by starbucks to indulge my craving.
Thanks a lot.

Re:oh great (0)

markov_chain (202465) | about 10 years ago | (#10393278)

Go out for coffee? But it's only 11!

Re:oh great (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393334)

I'd say you definitely need some java - that's article, not artical :)

Java 5 or 1.5? (-1, Flamebait)

SleepyShamus (599356) | about 10 years ago | (#10393165)

How much confidence do you have in a product that has 5 major releases before it hits 2.0?

Re:Java 5 or 1.5? (0, Offtopic)

pjt33 (739471) | about 10 years ago | (#10393338)

Emacs?

Re:Java 5 or 1.5? (1)

fracai (796392) | about 10 years ago | (#10393349)

Don't you know that version numbers are largly meaningless? I wouldn't expect 2.0 until Sun decides to to completely re-write Java from the ground up. Or at least make some monumental change that decidedly sets it apart from 1.x. But then again version numbers are usually meaningless and just illustrate a timeline of releases. I guess an ideal method would use .x to demonstrate small changes and x would demonstrate large changes. But in practice people tend to see a jump from 1.4 to 1.5 and think "that's only a small change". A jump from 1.8 to 2.0 would be only a slightly bigger change.

PS. How much confidence do you have in a product that goes through only about 10 releases and is suddenly at release 2000? ;)

Faster? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393167)

Still ain't as fast as the slowest C# implementation.

Re:Faster? (0)

MemoryDragon (544441) | about 10 years ago | (#10393236)

Yeah sure... whoever has voted this insightful, should rething his voting, the poster was a blatant troll.

I wait! (5, Insightful)

orangeguru (411012) | about 10 years ago | (#10393168)

I wait for the first bug reports ... and version 1.5.1 ...

Woo hoo... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393170)

The only thing with all the casting was that others could tell immediatly what you were expecting to get out of a collection, list etc.

Love the product, hate the hype? (0, Flamebait)

Octagon Most (522688) | about 10 years ago | (#10393175)

Is it really Java that we love to hate, or is it the failure to live up to the "write-once, run-anywhere hype"?

Finally! (4, Informative)

arhar (773548) | about 10 years ago | (#10393178)

I've been waiting for this for a long time! Now waiting for Eclipse to release a working plugin (well, there's this [genady.net] ,but it's not that great.

And just how long... (-1, Troll)

Tuxedo Jack (648130) | about 10 years ago | (#10393180)

How long until someone finds a hole it - and a script kiddie takes advantage of said flaw?

I'm just waiting for CoolWebSearch's "affiliates" to try to crack a hole in the Sun Java Machine.

Java is to C as ... (4, Interesting)

SamSeaborn (724276) | about 10 years ago | (#10393182)

Java is as far above C as C is above Assembly.

Microsoft was right to be afraid, developing in Java is a delight.

Sam

Re:Java is to C as ... (0, Flamebait)

rudolfel (700883) | about 10 years ago | (#10393293)

Java is as far above C as C is above Assembly


yeah
in terms of memory and cpu usage is even better

Free GMail Accounts! (-1, Offtopic)

Leslea (790012) | about 10 years ago | (#10393186)

I'm the Female Gmail Account Wh0re! Get them while they're hot!

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How long will the MacOS X release take? (5, Interesting)

Offwhite98 (101400) | about 10 years ago | (#10393187)

After they took all that time to rewrite it with the latest API they claim they can closely track Sun releases. This will be the first big thing since then, so it will be a test of Apple to get it out quickly.

Re:How long will the MacOS X release take? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393232)

Well there's been a Developer Preview available since June.

Re:How long will the MacOS X release take? (1)

CoolMoDee (683437) | about 10 years ago | (#10393245)

probably not very soon as the JVM was just updated last week or so.

Re:How long will the MacOS X release take? (2, Funny)

adavies42 (746183) | about 10 years ago | (#10393251)

I don't know when it will be out, but I can tell you what the Apple headline will be: "Tiger on Tiger".

Re:How long will the MacOS X release take? (3, Interesting)

Sanity (1431) | about 10 years ago | (#10393255)

Apparently it is planned for release with Tiger, the next major release of OSX. I don't know whether it will be available prior to the release of Tiger, if not, it is likely to prevent most developers from coding in it (what is the point in coding in Java if it won't work on the #2 desktop OS?).

Re:How long will the MacOS X release take? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393321)

It won't take that long. the reason they say they can now track it closely, is that the current impl isn't the nasty hack that was the mrj, but just a simple port of the sun sources, which have been working on freebsd for ages. os9 required complete rewrites/reimplementations of huge chunks of the java api.

Re:How long will the MacOS X release take? (3, Informative)

koehn (575405) | about 10 years ago | (#10393343)

I downloaded the beta (from where I can't say :-), but it only installs on Tiger (OS X 10.4). Since I don't really want to run a pre-release OS, I took a pass. But JDK 1.5 is coming, it's just several months off.

But by your post, you had probably already guessed that. At least it's probably less than four years, like it was before Mac folks got JDK 1.2...

Passe... (5, Funny)

gowen (141411) | about 10 years ago | (#10393190)

Don't you know, we don't hate Java anymore. These days we all love Java due to its major new feature -- its not C#

Man, that's not really fair (3, Funny)

mcc (14761) | about 10 years ago | (#10393345)

Considering that nearly 100% of the justification I've heard from people who like C# is along the lines of "It's not Java".

...

Come to think of it, this entire situation is sort of starting to sound like, um, something else...

J2EE --> 1.3.1 still (5, Interesting)

tezza (539307) | about 10 years ago | (#10393194)

If you develop apps targeted at Websphere 4, say, they're still 1.3.1 spec.

I look longingly at typed collections to save yet another ClassCastException on anonymous iterators. *sigh* oh well, maybe 6 years from now...

Re:J2EE -- 1.3.1 still (3, Interesting)

tmasssey (546878) | about 10 years ago | (#10393237)

I've been disappointed with IBM's response to Java lately. The last version easily downloaded for Windows is 1.3. The only way I was able to get Java 1.4 for Windows was to download the MQ Series client (like 200MB big!) and pull the JDK out of that...

I wonder if IBM will have a 1.5 JDK? For a company that is putting a lot of juice behind Java, it seems odd that they don't make the JDK available to others...

Re:J2EE -- 1.3.1 still (2, Informative)

robbyjo (315601) | about 10 years ago | (#10393267)

Are you sure? J2EE is 1.4 [sun.com] already.

Re:J2EE -- 1.3.1 still (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393395)

Are you sure? J2EE is 1.4 already.
The OP was talking about Websphere which uses IBM version of J2EE or did you not read the post?

Fuel for th e flame war (2, Interesting)

OhHellWithIt (756826) | about 10 years ago | (#10393199)

Scott McNealy got my dander up in the quotes in this Government Computer News article [gcn.com] .

Still no operators... (1, Interesting)

mirko (198274) | about 10 years ago | (#10393200)

The operators, a^Hthe feature that I just love in C++ is stil not present in Java, ok, it got faster, but still not as fast as C++ too.
I guess this will finally come but when ?

Re:Still no operators... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393241)

I hope we never see operator overloading in Java. Operator overloading is a hack and not based on good object oriented principals.

Re:Still no operators... (1, Troll)

mirko (198274) | about 10 years ago | (#10393291)

This should become part of a choice, it's like templates.
Actually, the more I code in C++, the more I feel like explorating it further. Its' not the case in Java where it sounds like there's only 1 way to do each thing, mostly because of the plethora of APIs (WebLogic, etc.) that corporations force you to use over it...

Re:Still no operators... (1)

billr (71335) | about 10 years ago | (#10393364)

Exploring C++ is fun. I spent awhile doing it, but when it came to meeting deadlines I could do it faster (and better) in Java and have time to go home at night.

Re:Still no operators... (3, Insightful)

timbloid (208531) | about 10 years ago | (#10393391)

> Its' not the case in Java where it sounds like there's only 1 way to do each thing

I take it from this comment that you haven't actually tried java. You can "explorate" to your hearts content, and there are many ways of doing the same thing (some obviously better than others)

> mostly because of the plethora of APIs (WebLogic, etc.) that corporations force you to use over it...

Now this comment just has me bamboozled... You mean that Weblogic holds sway over you and force you to code in one way over another? Surely weblogic [bea.com] is just an appserver? Which runs code designed to the standard J2EE API spec? The same as using Tomcat [apache.org] , JBoss [jboss.org] or Geronimo [apache.org] or even Hibernate [hibernate.org] ? (All of which are free and opensource, and follow the same J2EE spec that Weblogic does -- they just solve separate parts of it, and can be combined to do it all if you require)... I fail to see how this is a corporation forcing you to use one method of coding?

Sure, if you are only going to look at one way of achieving your goals, then there is only one way to go...

Re:Still no operators... (4, Informative)

timbloid (208531) | about 10 years ago | (#10393289)

> ok, it got faster, but still not as fast as C++ too.
> I guess this will finally come but when ?

Errr...

Java 1.4 was comparable in speed to C++ [idiom.com] (except obviously for Trig which got a huge overhaul in 1.4 and slowed down some)

It really depends how you write you code... Sloppy C++ code can be slow too.. ;-)

Re:Still no operators... (1)

mirko (198274) | about 10 years ago | (#10393336)

Java 1.4 was comparable in speed to C++

The authors conclude, "On Intel Pentium hardware, especially with Linux, the performance gap is small enough to be of little or no concern to programmers."


What about Sun/SPARC, Apple/OSX, AMD ???

BTW, what about GUI programing ?
I have worked wth Java/Swing and C++"/Qt2 and I have yet to say that Java GUIs are just a pain in the ass to code and to use...
Qt/C++ is by far the most elegant way I ever coded GUIs for both Linux/Intel and QTopia/ARM.

Well for us Apple elitist bastards (3, Funny)

antifoidulus (807088) | about 10 years ago | (#10393203)

we still gotta wait....come on Steve, get out of the hospital and give us our static imports and generics!

I just got my copy... (5, Funny)

melted keyboard (798559) | about 10 years ago | (#10393207)

Now let the slashdotting commence!

Linux with AMD 64? (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393208)

Hi
Does anyone have .jar files (Azures Bit Torrent Client in particular) working with this? I had Limewire working fine but not Azures with the RC of 1.5 on Mandrake AMD 64 rc2.

Cheers

Stability/memory leaks (2, Interesting)

B5_geek (638928) | about 10 years ago | (#10393210)

I have found that most (2 of the 3) Java Apps that I used have horrible memory leak issues. I can't let the computer run for more then 3 days or all kinds of funkyness begins (winxp).

I have been using Sun's JVM. I realise that the memory leaks are very likely the fault of the apps themselves, but it seems that the whole JMV is kinda flakey too.

Hopefully this new release works better.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (2, Informative)

liquidpele (663430) | about 10 years ago | (#10393229)

Java should never have memory leaks...
All the memory managment should be done by the VM as far as I know...
unless there is some advanced stuff i'm just not aware of?

Re:Stability/memory leaks (2, Informative)

Tojo-Mojo (707846) | about 10 years ago | (#10393279)

Java's garbage collection sort of creates a general laziness among some coders who don't clean up because they don't have to. Without effective clean up routines, like destructors, you commonly end up with a chain that can hold a lot of memory out that is being unused. All it takes is one pointer *ahem* reference to some object that contanis a reference to another, that contains an array... If you've got a few hashes and arrays in the way, it may be difficult to tell exactly where memory is being used, thus memory leaks.

Also, I don't know for sure, but would what happen if two objects referenced each other but nothing else referenced them. Would gc know to follow the links between the two and see that nothing in the main app is using them?

Re:Stability/memory leaks (3, Informative)

NoOneInParticular (221808) | about 10 years ago | (#10393341)

Also, I don't know for sure, but would what happen if two objects referenced each other but nothing else referenced them. Would gc know to follow the links between the two and see that nothing in the main app is using them?

Yes, Java's GC would notice that nothing is referring to them and remove the objects. This unlike a simple reference counting gc such as python's which would not notice this. Java's GC can even relocate memory on the fly to minimize page misses and avoid memory fragmentation.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393389)

what happen if two objects referenced each other but nothing else referenced them. Would gc know to follow the links between the two and see that nothing in the main app is using them?
The circularly referencing objects are seen as orphans and are garbage collected.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393294)

It's possible to have memory leaks in Java if you don't write your programs well.

For example, you could have the following code:

SomeClass hugeObject = new SomeClass();
hugeObject.loadUngodlyStuff();
/* hugeObject is a database, and you've just read 256 MB worth of entries into it. It's sitting there taking up memory. */

hugeObject.doSomeManipulations();

/* okay, now we're done with hugeObject. We enter some kind of main loop for our program in which hugeObject is never used again, but there is still a reference to it sitting there, and the garbage collector might not know enough to garbage collect it for you JUST IN CASE you might want to reference it later */

while(true){
doSomething();
}

This could be fixed by inserting "hugeObject = null" right before while(true){...}. So, yes, you can have memory leaks in Java, but if you do, it's really your own fault.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (4, Insightful)

joib (70841) | about 10 years ago | (#10393302)


Java should never have memory leaks...
All the memory managment should be done by the VM as far as I know...
unless there is some advanced stuff i'm just not aware of?


Not memory leaks as such, but "memory leaks" for all practical purposes. How? Well, if you forget to nullify references to objects you no longer use, the garbage collector obviously cannot reclaim that memory..

Re:Stability/memory leaks (2, Informative)

XbainX (464073) | about 10 years ago | (#10393378)

Actually, under certain circumstances the JVM will reclaim non-null references eventually. But you will still experience memory leak type symptoms until either you run out of available memory or the non-null references are cleaned up...

Java supports various types of references, check here: http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.4.2/docs/api/java/lang/ ref/Reference.html [sun.com]

Re:Stability/memory leaks (1)

Matje (183300) | about 10 years ago | (#10393332)

o but it does have memory leaks for sure. The only difference with before is, that now you'll have a forgotten reference to a memory structure somewhere. A couple of years ago I developed a java based GUI component, based on an open-source graphics toolkit. That toolkit created it's own thread to keep track of mouse movements (it triggered a custom tooltip).

Thing was, when you would shutdown my component the mouse thread would not be killed. And since it maintained a reference to some object which maintained a reference to my component instance, the garbage collector would never clean up my component. So there you have it, a memory leak in Java.

The only realistic way I know of to find these leaks is to use a tool like JProbe, which will show you the references to each instance.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (1)

Coz (178857) | about 10 years ago | (#10393383)

Any language can "leak" memory, depending on how the programmers program. See this IBM developerWorks [ibm.com] note for a how-it-happens, how-it's-cured tutorial. If Java didn't leak memory, how would JProfiler exist?

Re:Stability/memory leaks (1, Informative)

GreenCrackBaby (203293) | about 10 years ago | (#10393242)

>Weeks of coding saves hours of planning.


What an appropriate sig for your comment. The simple fact is that Java memory leaks are pretty common simply because not enough planning goes into coding. A proper UML diagram of an application can go a long way to highlighting possible memory leak situations.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (4, Interesting)

MemoryDragon (544441) | about 10 years ago | (#10393281)

Actually no, it is an app problem. Sun has introduced weak references way back in 1.3 to cope with that problem. And I have to admit, I never had any of these problems since 1.3
But it also could be that your program simply needs a tad more ram.
Following, check out the -Xmx and -Xms parameters of your application startup file and add more ram (java fetches 32MB in without any params and fills it up before it starts the GC for the first time) That might help.
But never count memory leaks out, they are very rare, but can happen if somebody has tangling references, pretty much the only case where the Garbage Collector can do basically nothing.
The VM itself is not flakey, I have a few servers running here, with an uptime of a year already.

Re:Stability/memory leaks (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393298)

Check if you are using any kind of native classes (such as the notorious Oracle OCI drivers) and/or if you can upgrade or replace them. The native lib thingy is the most vulnerable point in any Java application, not least because they are sometimes written by Java programmers themselves who are usually (but not always) not equipped to deal with memory management intricacies.

Stealing my tongue (4, Funny)

mukund (163654) | about 10 years ago | (#10393221)

I, for one, welcome our new virtual machine overlord.

Dude you know you are not supposed to say these things in the story itself.

Nice language... bad interface (1, Interesting)

smari (257143) | about 10 years ago | (#10393223)

I personally have never liked Java, but it's hard to dislike... it's a nice syntax, and makes for nice clean code.

What bugs me about Java is the virtual machine. Native code please! The "compile once, run anywhere" idea is good enough, but Perl is definately a much better candidate for such things, wheras it is open source and therefore portable to _anywhere_ without the folks at Sun having to give their approval.

It's out there! (2, Informative)

aug24 (38229) | about 10 years ago | (#10393248)

Check out gcj, part of gcc (Translation: check out the gnu compiler for java, part of the gnu compiler collection).

I gave it a whirl about a year ago and it was fine, fine for the relatively simple stuff I experimented with.

J.

Re:Nice language... bad interface (1)

liquidpele (663430) | about 10 years ago | (#10393258)

"without the folks at Sun having to give their approval."

As opposed to.. the perl people giving their approval? (realistically anyways. sure you could write your own interpreter, but that would suck)

And where Java shines on the desktop is GUI apps, and writing them FAST. Perl doesn't compete so much in that.

Re:Nice language... bad interface (2, Insightful)

smari (257143) | about 10 years ago | (#10393287)

No.. say I want to port Perl to my ToasterOS. I download Perl, compile it on ToasterOS (Presuming ToasterOS has all the prerequisites), and voila.

Java is not open source, hence I do not go around compiling it anywhere.. I just wait and hope that Mr. Star gives a yellow light on the project.

Re:Nice language... bad interface (1)

shutdown -p now (807394) | about 10 years ago | (#10393270)

You do realise that it is compiled to machine code by the JIT compiler when it is run?

mod parent down (5, Insightful)

hruntrung (89993) | about 10 years ago | (#10393331)

That's not interesting, that's cliche. People have been saying that for years. Let's be honest: virtual machines are where business code is going, and business code (enterprise applications, server side stuff, etc) is the primary focus of Java these days. .NET is a clear indication that this trend is a real one, and that that's where the industry is heading.

No, I don't think you should write ls or grep in Java. However, I'd say that you also shouldn't be writing an invoice processing system in C or C ++.

Re:Nice language... bad interface (1, Insightful)

jbrocklin (613326) | about 10 years ago | (#10393401)

Yes! Thank you! I've never liked java all that much - not because the coding is difficult, I just don't like the vm interface to things. I can write something up in perl, and run it wherever I like!

I don't particularly like the idea of many colleges wanting to move to Java as the language of choice. Sure it hides a lot of things from a new programmer, but if someone is going to college in computer science - they shouldn't have it hidden from them! Not to mention that C++ is somewhat of a 'standard' language. Learn it and you can move to other languages REALLY easily. Just my $0.02....

useful or bloat? (4, Interesting)

N3wsByt3 (758224) | about 10 years ago | (#10393233)

Well, some may call the 1.5 as being increasingly bloatware, but, why in some aspects this may be true, I think all by all there are considerable improvements over the former releases, especially 1.4.2.

JVM 1.4.2 (at least some sub-versions) were riddled with bugs, which, for instance, become apparent when people use systems that rely on it in a special way, as with Freenet. It comes as no surprise, that there were numerous reports of some errors on OSX and BSD, as well as on linux, when running JVM 1.4.2. For some time, we had to say "If you experience any difficulties, please try/revert to JVM 1.4.1 or 1.5.x and see if that solves the problem."

It is crazy to recommend reverting, but the main devls of java were unwilling to remedy the bugs in 1.4.2, claiming it was a Freenet-problem, while our devls said it was a JVM problem. Though it must be said some within freenet claim their is little to no problem with it (probably windows-users, or maybe some sub-versions that worked on specific linux-distributions). Anyway, my advice has always been, and will be (certainly in the light of the stable 1.5 release), to NOT use the 1.4.2, especially when using OSX or another 'nix based OS.

And also; be sure to get the JRE, and not the full SDK, unless you plan to develop Java software.

Are they mutually exclusive...? (1)

mcc (14761) | about 10 years ago | (#10393376)

One man's Useful is another man's Bloat...

Well, since you people ask this.... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393235)

...why not just use .NET?

Re:Well, since you people ask this.... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393330)

Not all of us use Windows. :P

Re:Well, since you people ask this.... (-1, Offtopic)

MemoryDragon (544441) | about 10 years ago | (#10393370)

I use Linux you insensitive clod

The new for loop and type safe collections rock (5, Informative)

ShatteredDream (636520) | about 10 years ago | (#10393243)

The new For loop may seem to be just syntactic sugar, but it isn't. It really does make the code look a lot cleaner when you are iterating over a collection or an array. The type safe collections are also very handy--no more class cast exceptions and stuff like that.

It would be nice though if Sun would make Groovy or Jython a standard part of their java distribution. That would definitely make it competitive with .NET

5 or 1.5? (1)

Mirk (184717) | about 10 years ago | (#10393271)

Is this in fact Java 5, or Java 1.5?

Until the Java world manages to get its act together on agreeing that little detail, forgive me if I remain skeptical about their agreeing APIs in sufficient detail for write-once, run-anywhere to be anything more than a nice fairy-tail.

Re:5 or 1.5? (4, Insightful)

Cederic (9623) | about 10 years ago | (#10393356)


Fairies have wings, not tails.

I agree though, the naming of Java is consistently confusing. Should I upgrade from Java 2.. err.. J2SE.. err.. Java 1.3.1_08 to Java 5 or to Java 1.5 or indeed Java 1.5.0. Oh, and is J2EE 1.4 compatible with this new one?

It could be much simpler..

~Cederic

Re:5 or 1.5? (1)

pjt33 (739471) | about 10 years ago | (#10393373)

Yes, it is. Come on - Solaris and Emacs use similar numbering systems.

Re:5 or 1.5? (1)

NSash (711724) | about 10 years ago | (#10393397)

Uhhh, where have you been? Java 1.2 was quite some time ago.

Both (1)

Achoi77 (669484) | about 10 years ago | (#10393398)

I beleive Java 5 is Java 1.5. They've decided to go with the name change because of marketing reasons only, just like how Java 1.4 is marketed as Java2. Especially now that people would think that java 2 > java 1.5, who would waste their time downloading it? Of course, now that it's up to 'version' 5, it's new and shiny and bug free~

It's okay, even slackware does it (hence no slackware 4, or 5, or 6). :-)

I'll wait (1)

JanneM (7445) | about 10 years ago | (#10393275)

I won't be upgrading until my bank and other "serious" Swdish websites requires the upgrade for the login/security applet crap I need to run every time. Until then I will not even breathe on the VM or runtime. It is kind of flaky already, and it would be a minor disaster to be locked out of my bank just because that applet stops working.

The language wars never ceases to amaze me (4, Insightful)

nhnfreespirit (809462) | about 10 years ago | (#10393284)

In typical /. style, as soon as Java is as much as mentioned, everybody expects the flame wars to erupt, and they always do...

I try to stay pragmatic about the programming languages that I use. For some jobs, Java would be my last choice, and for some it seems a natural fit. When writing hardware near code, or platform dependant stuff on driver level, nobody in their right mind would attempt to use Java. For high level rapid prototyping, Java is a often a quick and easy way of getting things done.

Re:The language wars never ceases to amaze me (1)

bahamutirc (648840) | about 10 years ago | (#10393386)

A lot of people only know maybe one or two programming languages. So when you say "use the best tool for the job", the look bewildered.

hmm. but how does this compare with Mono (3, Interesting)

ancice (817863) | about 10 years ago | (#10393290)

Nice that Java VM is now faster; it's one of the major drawbacks of java on the desktop. But how does this compare with the new and shiny Mono? Mono with its distributed system, and if it still beats Java, then java is in for a tough fight.

Re:hmm. but how does this compare with Mono (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393339)

By the way, on my own tests with real applications written in both Java and .NET 1.1, jdk1.4.2 is 20-30% faster. These apps don't do heavy math. From the few benchmarks comparing .NET and Mono, Mono is not faster than .NET. Therefore, Mono is not faster than Jdk1.4.2. For tomcat and other server related apps, Jdk5 is 10-25% faster than jdk1.4.2.

If you read Mono's mailing list, you'll see they've done a great job, but this is just the beginning. Making Mono faster than MS .NET is going to take a couple of years at minimum. Beating Jdk5 is going to take a while. Of course, other people may have different results. For what I do, Java is a far better choice than .NET or Mono.

Poor Indecisive Sun (-1, Flamebait)

cermanius (814292) | about 10 years ago | (#10393300)

This is now, what, the third Name for Java.

First there was just plain Java
Then there was Java 2
Now Java 5?

Where did Java 3 and 4 go?
I personally can't wait to see Java X, or better, when they get that far instead of calling it Java, they'll call it Java eXpresso. Wait,that's kind of a cool name...

*runs to the patent office.*

Write once, run anywhere (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Writer (746272) | about 10 years ago | (#10393304)

Java had all this hype about it when it was promoted nearly a decade ago, but it never got anywhere close to the point where you could walk into your local computer store and buy a major software package that could be run on any platform. I recall that Corel was going to attempt to release a WordPerfect that ran using Java, but that's the most I heard of it being adopted by mainsteam software developers. Does anyone think it will ever take?

Re:Write once, run anywhere (2, Interesting)

Cederic (9623) | about 10 years ago | (#10393393)


Rather than mod you troll, here's a simple answer.

>> Does anyone think it will ever take?

What makes you think it hasn't? A single example: What percentage of Apache Foundation products are written in and/or for Java. Note that Apache Foundation products are used extensively in Enterprise software development, deployment and systems.

~cederic

Bytecode Compatibility (4, Insightful)

Brian Blessed (258910) | about 10 years ago | (#10393306)

I thought that the compiled Java would remain compatible with the bytecode format used by previous versions. However, this seems not be the case and I get this message:
java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: HelloWorld (Unsupported major.minor version 49.0)

Whilst code that uses the new language features must obviously be compiled with the v1.5 JSDK, this means that it must also be run on the v1.5 JRE.

This may inhibit the use of Java 5 by projects that want their programs to run on a v1.4 JRE.

- Brian.

Re:Bytecode Compatibility (0)

moro_666 (414422) | about 10 years ago | (#10393362)

try -target 1.1 and -source 1.1

this should make java classes that run with everything since jdk1.1 ... ofcourse unless you use classes from newer java versions (forward compatibility is somewhat impossible :p)

Re:Bytecode Compatibility (1)

pjt33 (739471) | about 10 years ago | (#10393403)

If you want to compile for older VMs, you have to use the -target compiler option. This isn't new.

More like... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393315)

...a STEAMING PILE!

Shouldn't this read Have a nice steaming pile of (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393340)

Java 5?

2004: Typesafe Collections! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393344)

Guys, you're like 10 years too late. If I wait another 10 years, will I get multiple inheritance too?

Tiger!? (1)

argent (18001) | about 10 years ago | (#10393368)

Is there any reason both Sun and Apple are using the codename "Tiger" for new products or is it just coincidence?

Java 5?? (-1, Redundant)

twbecker (315312) | about 10 years ago | (#10393385)

I know the fact that this release was gonna be Java 5 is old news, but I can't believe they did it considering all the crap they took last time about Java 1.2 really being Java 2. What the hell happened to Javas 3 and 4?

Naming (1, Funny)

melanarchy (109486) | about 10 years ago | (#10393388)

If they're giving up and renaming it, they may as well go all the way. I say "Visual Java .NET" would be the perfect new name.

Dear Sun (2, Insightful)

mindaktiviti (630001) | about 10 years ago | (#10393400)

Please make your Windows (XP) Java run time environment download available on the FRONT PAGE or at the most 1 click away. Your latest website is very tricky to navigate and very annoying and what's the point of taking a Java class (which I'm currently doing) when the majority of Windows XP users don't even have the fucking run time installed by default (damn Microsoft!). I mean look at this mess [sun.com] . It's 5 clicks to the .exe file! Who is Joe Schmoe going to know what the hell a "run time environment" is when they're NOT EVEN interested in Java, except in the software they want to install! (i.e. Azureus bittorrent client). Please add a image button (so people see it, make it big and pink or red if you will) that says something like "Windows XP users DOWNLOAD to run your favourite Java applications!" Thank you. Yours Truly, Typical-Family's-Free-College-Long-distance-Tech-S upport.

steaming? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10393402)

Coffee or pile-of-poo?

Cheers, Sally.
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