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1150 comments

Nothing known, but political motivation possible (4, Informative)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464474)

The NYC Indymedia site [indymedia.org] is still up and has coverage of their own downtime. [indymedia.org]

Nobody's exactly sure why or how the FBI got warrants to take Indymedia's HDs, but their speculation tends to center around the fact that the Feds were spooked by the fact that Indymedia was able to publish RNC delegate names. This unfortuantely means political motivations are going to be questioned no matter what reasoning is brought forward.

Not much we can do at this hour but hold our breath and wait for more info to be released.

Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (5, Insightful)

mfh (56) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464498)

... Nobody's exactly sure why or how the FBI got warrants to take Indymedia's HDs, but their speculation tends to center around the fact that the Feds were spooked by the fact that Indymedia was able to publish RNC delegate names.

Yeah that freedom of speech thing is a real pain, isn't it?

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (4, Insightful)

caseydk (203763) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464520)


They also published the personal information of the delegates which included home addresses, phone numbers, and places of work.

There were also numerous hacks around that time (protestwarrior for one) in which personal information was posted on Indymedia sites.

When anti-abortion groups post this information on doctors who perform abortions, it is considered a threat. Why is this any different?

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464574)

It's different because no one's threatening to kill RNC delegate, you partisan asshole.

Sheesh. Get a clue, or buy one.

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464620)

Are you sure now? I'm inclined to believe otherwise. There is simply no other logical reason to publish that information, unless they are doing a bluff, like those idiots that threw fake molotov cocktails (jars with rags sticking out of them but with water instead of gasoline) at the DNC

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (4, Insightful)

AK Marc (707885) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464608)

They also published the personal information of the delegates which included home addresses, phone numbers, and places of work.

...which was already publicly released elsewhere. If you are going to take down the caches of "private" information that was previously published for all to see, then there are a lot of Google cache servers that the FBI needs to seize.

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (3, Interesting)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464660)

This will surely get me modded down....but....I have been doing a informal count of posts that are pro or against Bush. So far I am showing about six to one, against Bush versus pro-Bush. I don't know if that means the Slashdot crowd is overwhelmingly democrat and/or liberal, or, the pro-Bush side is unusually quiet?

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464721)

I don't know if that means the Slashdot crowd is overwhelmingly democrat and/or liberal,

Adorable! Absolutly adorable! Out of the mouths of babes! That is just about the cutest thing I have ever heard!

Yes, of course, dear boy. The pro-Bush side is just being unusually quiet. (/me pats the lil' tyke on his head)

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464639)

The RCN stuff was on NYC IMC [indymedia.org] (and it wasn't posted by Indymedia, most content on IMC sites is posted by the site users just like happens here...), the two servers siezed in London did not host NYC IMC, they hosted a lot of others IMC sites (like Italy [indymedia.org] and UK [indymedia.org.uk] ) and also some big Free software mirrors and projects, like the Blag [blagblagblag.org] Linux distro... :-/

It is not know if the Nantes issue is related to this, perhaps it was enough of an excuse for them and they are after other information, thankfully these servers were set up not to log IP addresses :-)

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (5, Insightful)

eliza_effect (715148) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464653)

Because when anti-abortion groups post that information, the implication is that it is to be used for less-than-legal activities (including murder). Posting the address and phone number of someone, without advocating harm to them isn't a problem in most cases (because if it were, the companies who mantain your local Phone Book would be in some serious trouble).

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464686)

And what is the implication here? So Indymedia readers can send them flowers?

You are confused (5, Informative)

www.sorehands.com (142825) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464680)

That was a civil case where the anti-abortion group had a site had the doctor's pictures in targets and when each doctor was killed, they crossed off the dead doctor. This was a civil suit holding them responsible for the results of their speech which encouraged the murders of the doctors. This is different from just posting the information on the delgates -- without targets, without orders to kill, etc.

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464694)

"When anti-abortion groups post this information on doctors who perform abortions, it is considered a threat. Why is this any different?"

Intent. Did Indymedia list wanted dead or alive style information with red 'X's through the politicians that have been killed? Also, note that politicians are public figures while doctors are not. That having been said I think its very scummy of INdymedia and I dont doubt that there is some law that they broke. However its on a diferent level from the "pro life" wackos.

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (2, Insightful)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464616)

> > ... Nobody's exactly sure why or how the FBI got warrants to take Indymedia's HDs, but their speculation tends to center around the fact that the Feds were spooked by the fact that Indymedia was able to publish RNC delegate names.
>
>Yeah that freedom of speech thing is a real pain, isn't it?

Yeah, that privacy thing is a real pain, isn't it?

Supposing for a moment that the speculation is correct: If they were publishing DNC delegate names, or bank/credit card customer names, or even the names under which people had registered at a web site, you'd argue that such an activity ought also to be protected under the First Amendment?

Or do privacy laws somehow become a bad thing when they protect members of a political party with whom you disagree?

Re:Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464707)

Damn but you have a low UID!! Did you sign up the first few minutes that the site came up? :-)

Re:Nothing known, but political motivation possibl (4, Informative)

actiondan (445169) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464548)


obody's exactly sure why or how the FBI got warrants to take Indymedia's HDs, but their speculation tends to center around the fact that the Feds were spooked by the fact that Indymedia was able to publish RNC delegate names.


Another theory is around some pictures of undercover Swiss police (photographing protesters) that were posted on an IMC site (IMC Nantes) - Indymedia got a request to remove 'identifying information' from the site (apparently the FBI got involved 'as a courtesy' to the Swiss authorities). Since there were no identifying details, Indymedia didn't do anything in response.

It would seem strange for an American agency to get a warrant to seize information relating to Swiss undefcover police from a French website, but it's the most solid theory I've heard so far.

Clarification Please (3, Insightful)

White Roses (211207) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464704)

If I understand this correctly, this sort of says to me that if it's me in public, I don't have a right not to be photographed (i.e. traffic cameras, security cameras), but if it's the police, they do? If that's not a step on the way to a police state, I don't know what is . . .

How do we know it was the police anyway, if they were supposedly undercover? If they were, and someone photographed them, the undercover police shouldn't have had identifying marks. If they're that easily identifable, they're not really undercover, are they? And if they aren't identifiable, then the Swiss themselves gave away the whole shebang by raising a stink about it, no? If the police wanted to remain anonymous, maybe they should have taken the pictures from a long way away with a telephoto lens the size of Hubble, or from behind a one-way mirror in a van or something.

Sorry, this just all seems really messed up to me in general.

Re:Nothing known, but political motivation possibl (1, Informative)

OverlordQ (264228) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464566)

Well consider the following, Immeadiately following the Protest Warrior Hack [protestwarrior.com] somebody posted that list to an IndyMedia server. That list stayed up for Three Unmolested Days. Whereas any other controverial (to the Left) information was deleted in Five Minutes. 3 Days versus 5 Minutes. That doesn't look very good in my eyes as for the partiality of IMC.

Re:Nothing known, but political motivation possibl (5, Informative)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464610)

IndyMedia doesn't claim to be unbiased... the site admits that it leans left.

Bush Is Desparate To Fix The Election: +1, True (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464614)

If you doubt the partisan nature of the F.B.I., please read
Reagan, Hoover, and the U.C. Red Scare [sfgate.com] .

J. Edgar Hoover was a nut.

Seditously as always,
Kilgore Trout

Re:Bush Is Desparate To Fix The Election: +1, True (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464718)

I don't care much for you politics but anybody who knows about Kilgore Trout is alright!

Re:Nothing known, but political motivation possibl (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464632)

Because...they knew the truth! Bush was being coached during the debate! [indymedia.org]

So let me get this straight... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464701)

Indymedia had information of people walking around in public places, and because they identified their political affiliation and their name, (which was, no doubt, on the identification those people were wearing in public) the FBI swoops in and seized drives.

But a CIA agent and on going CIA operations relating to proliferation of nuclear materials are compromised, and nothing happens?

One of these is a little more threatening than the other. Well at least the President isn't getting a hummer.

Hmph...well- (5, Informative)

thewldisntenuff (778302) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464479)

Suspicious indeed....Possibly linked to RNC delegate identification? See this link from the Pittsburgh Post Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/04264/382137.stm [post-gazette.com]

This in from Argentina Indymedia, which has a different view -

FBI took the hard drives of IMC servers in the UK
por Mat ((!)) Thursday October 07, 2004 at 06:10 PM
-
The US authorities issued a subpoena to Rackspace's office in the US ordering them to physically remove Indymedia hardware located in London. Rackspace is one of Indymedia's web hosting providers with offices in the US and London. Rackspace complied and turned over Indymedia's hard drives/servers in the UK. This affects some 20+ Indymedia sites worldwide.

Since the subpoena was issued to Rackspace and not to Indymedia, the reasons for this action are still unknown to Indymedia.

At the same time a second server was taken down at Rackspace which provided streaming radio to several radio stations, BLAG (linux distro), and a handful of miscellanous things.

The last few months have seen numerous attacks on independent media by the US Federal Government. In August the Secret Service used a subpoena in an attempt to disrupt the NYC IMC before the RNC by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and the Netherlands, last month the FCC shut down comunity radio stations around the US, and now the FBI is shutting down IMCs around the world.

The list of affected local media collectives includes Ambazonia, Uruguay, Andorra, Poland, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, Lilles, Marseille (all France), Euskal Herria (Basque Country), Liege, East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen (all Belgium), Belgrade, Portugal, Prague, Galiza, Italy, Brazil, part of the Germany site, UK Radio, and the global Indymedia Radio site.

Micah Anderson of the global imc-tech collective said, "We suspect it has to do with an FBI request that we take down a post on the Nantes IMC that had a photo of some undercover Swiss police. They claimed there was threats and personal information, but there was nothing of the sort. The undercover police that were photographed on the page were photographing protesters. Rackspace is a US company, but have colocation in the UK where these servers are (err, were) located. So this is about Swiss police, on a French site, on a server in England, taken away by American federal police."

However, according to information from IMC Nantes the pictures in question were already removed a week ago.
Link to Argentina Indymedia
http://argentina.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/227693 .php [indymedia.org]

and one more to NYC Indymedia, which is still up

http://nyc.indymedia.org/ [indymedia.org]

Re:Hmph...well- (1)

ravenspear (756059) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464516)

So this is about Swiss police, on a French site, on a server in England, taken away by American federal police.

Yeah but we all know the FBI isn't going to be stopped by small things like jurisdictional issues.

Re:Hmph...well- (1)

ruckc (111190) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464533)

And this is why you turn off all longterm logging. You generate the information you need for statistics and delete the access logs. I.e. keep count of daily/hourly hits instead of generating them from parsing. After parsed into your statistics engine, delete the logs. That way, they can't request what doesn't exist. Now, if you are good you could just make your access logs a pipe of somesort and feed them automatically into your statistics engine, so the logs never physically reside on the harddrive, and they can't try to recover them.

Re:Hmph...well- (1)

Shakrai (717556) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464599)

Now, if you are good you could just make your access logs a pipe of somesort and feed them automatically into your statistics engine, so the logs never physically reside on the harddrive, and they can't try to recover them.

And you think that won't stop them from seizing your hard drives anyway? Unless you are running some sort of website that requires privacy for the protection of it's users (let's say a rape crisis discussion board or something along those lines) why would you advocate this?

Just to toss an example off the top of my head what happens if somebody makes a post to a discussion forum on your website that says "I'm going to kill that bitch [insert name]" and the next day her body is found floating in the river?

I hate Ashcroft as much as the next guy but I'm going to reserve my judgment and assume they had a legitimate purpose for doing this (leaks of the RNC delegates home addresses? How would we feel if it was the DNC delegates? Or your home address) until proven otherwise.

Re:Hmph...well- (1)

ruckc (111190) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464664)

Personally I would prefer it being the DNC delegates. My home address? Oh big deal, its on the internet somewhere... Why do I care, if someone shows up here, they will of had their vehicle searched just to get to my home.

2115 N. Pine St. Fort Sam Houston, TX 78234

It doesn't bother me any. If someone posted on a discussion forum that said that they were going to kill someone or something, I would use my cache/proxy's logs... but I never keep logs on my webserver its asking to get raided, and then your site gets taken down and all that hojaz.

Re:Hmph...well- (1)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464675)

...to disrupt the NYC IMC before the RNC by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and...

If we ever needed evidence that more information is being packed into less language, this is it...

A guess? (0, Redundant)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464481)

I read the article and even googled a bit but I can't come up with even a guess concerning why the FBI made off with their hard drives. A translation of the blurb on their site indicates that they have a server in reserve that they are trying to bring up but they have lost, obviously, all of their content.

And? (2, Insightful)

Beardo the Bearded (321478) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464482)

Who the heck is indymedia?

Re:And? (2, Informative)

upside (574799) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464526)

Independent media. Have a look at the links provided in other posts. Quote:

We are dedicated to addressing issues that the mainstream media neglects and we do not conceal our politics behind a false objectivity. We hope to empower people to "become the media" by providing democratic access to available technologies and information.

Re:And? (3, Informative)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464537)

Kind of an independent news site.

They liked to live on the edge of annoying the establishment... they were the ones that broke the story of the statue of saddam hussen falling being a put-up job for the assembled press (there were only about half a dozen people there, there rest were reporters/press).

It's not surprising the US want to censor them... surprising they have the guts to do it so publicly though.

Re:And? (5, Informative)

lilmouse (310335) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464606)

An "independent" media site. They tend to have left-ist articles (e.g., they cover goverment corruption, torture, protests against WTO, attacks on free speech, what the FBI is doing, etc). They allow readers to post comments to articles, similar to our favorite /..

They are not owned by large media companies, and do not give money to politicians (AFAIK - they dont' have much cash). They operate on a shoe-string budget and need more computers.

And less legal problems.

There's a short answer :-)

--LWM

Re:And? (1, Flamebait)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464622)

It is one of the sites where you can read about how Israel is behind EVERYTHING bad in the world...

Wish I was joking.

Re:And? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464663)

Half-true. They like to bash Israel, but don't forget that Bush and/or the Republicans are responsible for everything ELSE bad in the world.

According to them.

You should see how agitated they get everytime there's a mass-protest.

Why is this "my rights online" (-1, Flamebait)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464483)

And what does this have to do with censorship?

How about some background, other than "some website was raided by the FBI". Warez sites are raided/taken down every day.

Was this a kiddy porn ring or something, is that why you're so upset?

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (5, Insightful)

thewldisntenuff (778302) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464503)

Because it wasn't "some website raided by the FBI". It was an independant media source that was taken down by the FBI for reasons unknown....

The regular media doesn't get taken down so easily...Sounds suspicous....Politically motivated? Possibly...

But kiddy porn ring, no....

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (2, Funny)

LostCluster (625375) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464544)

The regular media doesn't get taken down so easily

Today's moral of the story is to keep offsite backups...

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464633)

That won't help much. As soon as the backups are brought online those systems will be siezed and brought down as well. The only way to bring the site back up would be to use Freenet or something similar.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (1)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464617)

Well, somebody is going to find anything that the FBI does to be politically motivated.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (0, Troll)

black mariah (654971) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464625)

The 'regular media' isn't so fucking stupid as to post names, addresses, and phone numbers of RNC delegates. Replace all instances of "Indymedia" with "Wal-Mart" in that case and see how fast the slashbots change their tune.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (5, Informative)

MutantEnemy (545783) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464510)

The Independent Media Center, also called Indymedia or the IMC, is a network of media organizations and journalists. It was started in late November, 1999, to cover the protests of the anti-globalization movement against the World Trade Organization in Seattle, Washington. By 2002, there were 89 local IMCs around the world spread between 31 countries plus the West Bank and 6 continents. The country with the most IMCs is the United States with 39, followed by Canada with 11.

(Source: Wikipedia.org. Released under the GFDL. See article [wikipedia.org] )

What is jazz? (0)

Murmer (96505) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464522)

Why is this "my rights online"

If you can't read, odds are good that censorship will never be that big a deal to you.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (1)

cloveygrl (805048) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464530)

Its a liberal political/activism (not in the hacktivism type sense) that seems to be targeted for takedown by the current administration. Thats why. Try not to piss off the man.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (2, Informative)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464567)

Actually, according to nyc.indymedia.com, the request originated from the Swiss police.

And according to another article, they recently published a bunch of photos identifying undercover swiss policemen. It starts to make sense, I have no idea what Swiss laws against exposing undercover law enforcement agents say.

But I guess the knee-jerk "It's a Bush comsperacie!" crap is appropriate for slashdot.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (1)

MutantEnemy (545783) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464659)

But I guess the knee-jerk "It's a Bush comsperacie!" crap is appropriate for slashdot.

Firstly, the actual /. article, being rather light on details, said nothing of the sort. Secondly, is it somehow better that the U.S. authorities are taking down news websites at the request of foreign governments, rather than on their own initiative?

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (2, Insightful)

Handigar (820048) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464700)

Its not "just" the current US administration, its a general western centre-right policy: note the servers were not all located in the USA and therefore other governments were implicit in the "crime" though one wonders why the FBI rather than the law enforcement agencies of said governments seized the HDs. And its "your rights online" because it appears you cant maintain a legal website expressing views contrary to the political establishment (of several nations) without it getting taken down.

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464535)

It's intellectual porn. Damn those free-thinkers trying to get news from an independent media source!

Re:Why is this "my rights online" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464602)

Indymedia is a grassroots independent media organisation, aimed at bypassing the corporate media's slant on the world. As such it comes from a fairly radical political perspective, and an attack on it by the authorites should be seen in those terms, and as part of the wider attack on free speech and civil liberties that has been happening in recent years.

And no, it doesn't host kiddie (or any other kind of) pr0n :)

YOU'RE A COMPLETE FUCKING MORON (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464623)

AND YOU'RE ALSO RETARDED!

An essay on Indymedia Server Raided (-1, Offtopic)

scruffymcgee (819818) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464484)

An essay on Indymedia Server Raided

In this essay I will consider the social, economic and political factors of Indymedia Server Raided. The constantly changing fashionable take on Indymedia Server Raided demonstrates the depth of the subject. While it is becoming a hot topic for debate, several of todays most brilliant minds seem incapable of recognising its increasing relevance to understanding future generations. The juxtapositioning of Indymedia Server Raided with fundamental economic, social and political strategic conflict draws criticism from those most reliant on technology, who are yet to grow accustomed to its disombobulating nature. At the heart of the subject are a number of key factors. I plan to examine each of these factors in detail and and asses their importance.

Social Factors

As Reflected in classical mythology society is complicated. Upon Peter Pinkleton-PishPosh's return to Britain he remarked 'class will refelect the inner hero' [1], he failed to understand that if one seriously intends to 'not judge a book by its cover', then one must read a lot of books. No symbol is more potent than Indymedia Server Raided in society today. It demonstrates a coherent approach, something so lacking in our culture, that it is not recognised by all.

Of paramount importance to any study of Indymedia Server Raided within its context, is understanding the ideals of society. To put it simply, people like Indymedia Server Raided.

Economic Factors

Our world is driven by supply and demand. We will study the Greek-Roman model. For those of you unfamiliar with this model it is derived from the Three-Amigos model but with greater emphasis on the outlying gross national product. Inflation

Indymedia Server Raided

How do we explain these clear trends? Of course inflation world wide are driven entirely by Indymedia Server Raided. A sharp down turn in middle class investment may lead to changes in the market.

Political Factors

Politics - smolitics! Contrasting the numerous political activists campaigning for the interests of Indymedia Server Raided can be like looking at the vote of the man in the street with that of one more accustomed to Indymedia Server Raided.

One quote comes instantly to mind when examining this topic. I mean of course the words of style icon Bartholomew Tuigamala 'Taking a walk across hot coals will inevitably hurt your feet.' [2] What a fantastic quote. If I may be as bold as to paraphrase, he was saying that 'political ideals are built on the solid cornerstone of Indymedia Server Raided.'

I wait anxiously. What will the next few years bring for Indymedia Server Raided?

Conclusion

We can say with certainty Indymedia Server Raided must not be allowed to get in the way of the bigger question: why are we here? Putting this aside its of great importance. It inspires, invades where necessary and is a joy to behold.

As a parting shot here are the words of super-star Justin Astaire: 'You win some, you loose some, but Indymedia Server Raided wins most often.' [3]

[1] Flankton - The Complete History - 1999 Fantastico Publishing

[2] Tuigamala - Captain Sir - 1844 Inevitable Publishing

[3] Everything you always wanted to know about Indymedia Server Raided, but were afraid to ask. - Issue 287 - QKS Publishing

Re:An essay on Indymedia Server Raided (1)

Blublu (647618) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464719)

I agree, nice essay. :)

Fanatical Support™ (5, Funny)

NatureBoy (1794) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464485)

I guess that's what Rackspace means by Fanatical Support(TM) [rackspace.com]

Slashdot sucks (1)

YourMissionForToday (556292) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464488)

Astros are good

Raided? (5, Funny)

bdesham (533897) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464493)

...but I thought the servers were RAIDed already?

In other news (-1, Flamebait)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464506)

There are a bunch of cars driving down the highway.

Ugh, am I missing something here, like content in this article?

Re:In other news (1)

jyoull (512280) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464529)

Your signature is particularly ironic in light of this news.

The fact that an "independent" (as in not company-owned) news resource was forced offline and its equipment seized *is* the newsworthy information.

Re:In other news (1)

hackstraw (262471) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464568)

The fact that an "independent" (as in not company-owned) news resource was forced offline and its equipment seized *is* the newsworthy information.

Not necessarily. It could be that the admin of the box nocked off his crack dealer so he did not have to pay him what he owed him. Nothing too interesting with that.

There is simply no information to go on here.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464528)

fp

This doesn't look good... (2, Insightful)

tdarley (163034) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464532)

Indymedia goes down in an FBI raid and the best /. can muster are a bunch of asshat trolls who have their heads so far buried in the sand they don't even know what indymedia.org *is*.

Re:This doesn't look good... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464640)

You must be new here...

Re:This doesn't look good... (4, Informative)

HavokDevNull (99801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464677)

Quit your bitching, instead stop calling people who don't have a clue nasty names and throw them a bone.

Who is Indymedia you ask? click the link bellow

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indymedia [wikipedia.org]

What is there to know? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464681)

IndyMedia is the internet home of the idiotarian left. Liberals and leftists. What else is there to know? Indymedia is where being anti-American is cool, and supporting terrorists is fashionable. These guys have had this coming for YEARS now. Anytime there is a terrorist attack, these guys celebrate. No amount of American or Israeli deaths are enough for those wackos. Like Greenpeace, the Humane Society and most other leftists fronts, they have leveraged their support in middle america to undermine the very foundation upon which this country was built. I FULLY support the take down of any and all leftist, liberal propoganda sites like this, the more the better. Go FBI.


Protect America. Bush Cheney 2004.

Re:This doesn't look good... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464714)

All the trolls from indymedia had to go somewhere...

Indymedia press release (5, Informative)

zygut (165472) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464540)

Press Release

7 October 2004

FBI Seizes IMC Servers in the UK

US authorities issued a federal order to Rackspace's office in the US ordering them to provide Indymedia's hardware located in London to the requesting agency. Rackspace is one of Indymedia's web hosting providers with offices in the US and London. Rackspace complied, without first notifying Indymedia, and turned over Indymedia's server in the UK. This affects some 20+ Indymedia sites worldwide.

Since the subpoena was issued to Rackspace and not to Indymedia, the reasons for this action are still unknown to Indymedia. Talking to Indymedia volunteers, Rackspace stated that "they cannot provide Indymedia with any information regarding the order." ISPs have received gag orders in similar situations which prevent them from updating the concerns parits on what is happening.

It is unclear to Indymedia how and why a server that is outside the US jurisdiction can be seized by US authorities.

At the same time a second server was taken down at Rackspace which provided streaming radio to several radio stations, BLAG (linux distro), and a handful of miscellanous things.

The last few months have seen numerous attacks on independent media by the US Federal Government. In August the Secret Service used a subpoena in an attempt to disrupt the NYC IMC before the RNC by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and the Netherlands. Last month the FCC shut down community radio stations around the US. Two weeks ago the FBI requested that Indymedia takes down a post on the Nantes IMC that had a photo of some undercover Swiss police and IMC volunteers in Seattle were visited by the FBI on the same issue. On the other hand, Indymedia and other independent media organisations have been successful with their victories (thanks to the EFF), for example against Diebold and the Patroit Act. Today however, the US authorities shut down IMCs around the world.

The list of affected local media collectives includes Ambazonia, Uruguay, Andorra, Poland, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, Lilles, Marseille (all France), Euskal Herria (Basque Country), Liege, East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen (all Belgium), Belgrade, Portugal, Prague, Galiza, Italy, Brazil, UK, part of the Germany site, and the global Indymedia Radio site.

Final version, was: Re:Indymedia press release (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464703)

This is the final verion of the press release, the parent has an earlier version:

Press Release

7 October 2004

FBI Seizes IMC Servers in the UK

US authorities issued a federal order to Rackspace's office in the US ordering them to provide Indymedia's hardware located in London to the requesting agency. Rackspace is one of Indymedia's web hosting providers with offices in the US and London. Rackspace complied, without first notifying Indymedia, and turned over Indymedia's server in the UK. This affects some 20+ Indymedia sites worldwide.

Since the subpoena was issued to Rackspace and not to Indymedia, the reasons for this action are still unknown to Indymedia. Talking to Indymedia volunteers, Rackspace stated that "they cannot provide Indymedia with any information regarding the order." ISPs have received gag orders in similar situations which prevent them from updating the concerned parties on what is happening.

It is unclear to Indymedia how and why a server that is outside the US jurisdiction can be seized by US authorities.

At the same time a second server was taken down at Rackspace which provided streaming radio to several radio stations, BLAG (linux distro), and a handful of miscellanous things.

The last few months have seen numerous attacks on independent media by the US Federal Government. In August the Secret Service used a subpoena in an attempt to disrupt the NYC IMC before the RNC by trying to get IP logs from an ISP in the US and the Netherlands. Last month the FCC shut down community radio stations around the US. Two weeks ago the FBI requested that Indymedia takes down a post on the Nantes IMC that had a photo of some undercover Swiss police and IMC volunteers in Seattle were visited by the FBI on the same issue. On the other hand, Indymedia and other independent media organisations were successfull with their victories for example against Diebold and the Patroit Act. Today however, the US authorities shut down IMCs around the world.

The list of affected local media collectives includes Ambazonia, Uruguay, Andorra, Poland, Western Massachusetts, Nice, Nantes, Lilles, Marseille (all France), Euskal Herria (Basque Country), Liege, East and West Vlaanderen, Antwerpen (all Belgium), Belgrade, Portugal, Prague, Galiza, Italy, Brazil, UK, part of the Germany site, and the global Indymedia Radio site.

Original on the wiki: WwwFeaturesWorkpad [indymedia.org]

About time! (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464557)

Those sites were run by anti-american leftist liberals. The FBI needs to crack down on ANY and ALL leftist web sites that spread pro-terrorist, anti-american messages all over. We need more action, not more talk. Go FBI!

Maybe the FBI... (5, Funny)

Osrin (599427) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464559)

... just needed hard drives, Government budgets are tight.

Not everything is a conspiracy.

Re:Maybe the FBI... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464635)

They needed to replace all the ones that disappeared from LANL.

Re:Maybe the FBI... (1)

arose (644256) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464661)

That ALSO is a conspiracy.

Freedom of speech is a noble thing (-1, Troll)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464561)

and it's truly worth dying for. However, it's widely known that the terrorists are looking for any oppertunity to make a signifigant strike during the elections.

And, by publishing the information that they did, indymedia potentially handed them that oppertunity on a silver platter.

Personally, I think that sometimes free speech needs to take a back seat to preserving the lives of our citizens, even if they are politicians.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (2, Interesting)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464605)

Blaming the RNC sounds like something a rabid anti-bush website would do.

But, TFA that I read on nyc.indymedia.com has a quote from Rackspace saying the request came from Swiss authorities.

I read elsewhere that they got in some shit for publishing photos and identities of undercover swiss cops.

I'm sure they know what they did, but they won't say anything so long as they can lead everyone to believe it's "evil Bush" behind it all.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (4, Interesting)

radish (98371) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464688)

The best theories are so far that they either (a) posted photos of undercover swiss police officers or (b) posted publicly available info concerning members of the RNC.

If (a), what on earth does this have to do with terrorism or indeed the FBI. If (b), this is public info, they just collated it. Again, what does this have to do with the FBI, or indeed terrorists.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464689)

With that kind of attitude, you'll gladly hand over all your rights over time all in the name of 'security'!

Besides, if you believe that a terrorist is waiting for someone to post that information is underestimating those people. If they wanted that information secure, they should have thought about that before they made it so easily available some independant media hacks could obtain it.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464690)

Dumb ass. If indymedia can get the info, then so can any other enterprising person/group that wants it enough.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (4, Insightful)

arose (644256) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464697)

It's called terrorism because the reason isn't to kill people, but to make them fear. But it seams that while people are all for it to make "war on terror", they don't want to fight their own fear.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464698)

You only believe this because the mainstream media is telling you to be scared. The FBI has no right to halt the freedom of speech - that's bullshit!! Independent media is needed to protect your freedom!!! Damn, I wish there were more open minded American's unlike you...

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464702)

Personally, I think that sometimes free speech needs to take a back seat to preserving the lives of our citizens, even if they are politicians.

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety."

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (2, Interesting)

lifeblender (806214) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464706)

Do you still think that ELECTIONS are the targets? The targets are commercial, not political. Why would anyone that hates the US (or more specific parts of it) enough to kill civilians care about our democratic procedures? Anyone that is angry at the US is angry at groups already in power.

Re:Freedom of speech is a noble thing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464717)

Widely known? Widely crowed about by the terror-mongers in the current administration but not "WIDELY KNOWN". You've been told by Tom Ridge...Darth Cheney has told you...but we don't have a single shred of personal proof to back it up. Noooo...they wouldn't want to spell it out for us. That'd spoil all the fun of trying to terrorize US citizens into voting for Alfred E. Neuman again. At best it's "widely rumoured" that unnamed, unspecified terrorist-like evil-doer-types might be trying to do said evil to unnamed unspecified persons, places or things sometime early in November. Frankly, I'll take my chances.

Gag? (5, Interesting)

More Trouble (211162) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464570)

"(14:20) Rackspace has issued a "no comment" response concerning the FBI's actions."


Given that Rackspace seemed reasonably communicative about the Swiss Secret Service issue, I wonder if the "no comment" implies some invocation of the Patriot Act [aclu.org] .

:w

due process? (5, Insightful)

to_kallon (778547) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464577)

Rackspace was given no time to defend against the order before it was acted upon and turned over the hard drives from the nyc imc server [indymedia.org]
now i'm no legal expert, but i was under the distinct impression that, with a few exceptions like threatening the president, you were innocent until proven guilty and had the right to defend yourself. have i missed something?
also by law aren't federal agents, any agents for that matter, required to show the warrant? so *some*body must know what's going on, right?

Re:due process? (4, Insightful)

actiondan (445169) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464670)


now i'm no legal expert, but i was under the distinct impression that, with a few exceptions like threatening the president, you were innocent until proven guilty and had the right to defend yourself. have i missed something?


Yes, you have missed something - the national security laws passed in the last few years.

more info (4, Informative)

Erno_Rubaiyat (585746) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464579)

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2004/10/1703846.php [indymedia.org]

has more information, they suspect it is related to the posting of pictures of undercover police officers. Oddly enough the officers were photographing protesters.

nothing in archive.org either... (1, Redundant)

NotQuiteReal (608241) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464582)

Was there ever anything here? [archive.org]

Re:nothing in archive.org either... (2, Informative)

refactored (260886) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464674)

ORG [archive.org] you nana, not COM.

Cheez, you're as bad as Dick Cheney. [factcheck.com]

Who dunnit!?! (1)

graveyardduckx (735761) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464583)

Was it the Republicans wanting to get back at them for posting names? Was it the Democrats wanting people to think it was the Republicans getting back at them? In related news: Slashdot will be taken down by the Patriot Act once fbi.gov gets Slashdotted and they consider it an act of cyber terrorism. I just want to know who's going to start pointing fingers first.

Kinda short on information (3, Insightful)

hidden (135234) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464584)

I realise that if it just happened there may not be a huge amount of information available yet, but surely you could link to something a little better than well...nothing.

And I have to question what little info you have given... after all, I'm pretty sure the FBI (an AMERICAN organization) can't directly raid a rackspace location in ENGLAND... don't they have to arrange with their friends in the relevant British agencies to do something like that?

what about diebold? (4, Interesting)

jaromil (104349) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464597)

My supposition is the following:

Diebold threatened the italian indymedia website, along with other
IMC hosted there, one year ago, for hosting documents discussing
the numerous scandals about their voting system.

This case was taken up by the EFF and they WON in court.

Now, just before the elections in USA, Diebold is coming back
under cover to strike back.
Of course they will never declare Diebold is behind all this.
Then who would be next, slashdot? just search "Diebold" in the archives if you
don't remember well wassup...

of course, just my 2 cents

Maybe it's because (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10464604)

indymedia is crap? [indymedia.org]

Seriously, the FBI is doing the world a favor here.

Huge mistake by the feds. (5, Insightful)

mcc (14761) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464609)

This event will legitimize IndyMedia in a way that none of their reporting ever has.

"They hate us for our freedom!" (5, Insightful)

Cryofan (194126) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464611)

Umm....can someone please remind me how this is the greatest and most free country in the world?
(No fair modding me down based on your warped "political" leanings...).

at what stage does identification become scary? (5, Interesting)

Dr.Knackerator (755466) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464615)

i mean if they published names is that really wrong? its a public event, its on telly so by default you could be recognised in the audience, by going you agree your privacy is compromised in some way, your details will probably go onto some list of people to call back.

if you stood outside the entrance, took photos of the people going in and published them, would that be the same thing? if its a public place whats the problem?

has there been intimidation? or is this just fear because its the republicans in power?

there are plenty if privacy concerns just by being a voter, your details are available to be seen locally (speaking as a UK citizen myself). and if you don't tick the right box then hell its available to anybody who wants it, anywhere, possibly for cross referencing with the phone book so burglars can find your phone number if if looks like you are out. well having a pretty rare name and being involved in something where a lot of people know i've got a load of expensive gear - i don't register to vote. I know people who have been repeatedly hit and vanloads of equipment nicked.

as another point, really is there any need to go? its on the telly. like all political conferances its just preaching to the converted and you are just there to applaud on cue to make the pictures look good.

hey and i forgot (1)

Dr.Knackerator (755466) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464645)

to even get onto gerrymandering [fairvote.org] which is totally immoral but not illegal.

Real reason (0, Offtopic)

kd7wpc (722511) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464621)

Don't do kiddie-porn and Kazaa at work!

Cou de Gras? (0, Offtopic)

CrazyJim1 (809850) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464644)

Their servers are having trouble, so its Slashdot to the rescue

Wayback machine to the rescue? (2, Informative)

JUSTONEMORELATTE (584508) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464654)

Hmm... the archive.org page [archive.org] only goes to January of 2004.
Better than nothing, though.

Can you say... (1)

illumina+us (615188) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464682)

PATRIOT act?

No jurisdiction (3, Informative)

BillsPetMonkey (654200) | more than 9 years ago | (#10464687)

"The US authorities issued a subpoena to Rackspace's office in the US ordering them to physically remove Indymedia hardware located in London"

They wouldn't be obliged to take down the server in a foreign country. Believe it or not, UK soil is subject to UK law, not American law.
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