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Java 1.5 vs C#

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the battle-rages-on dept.

Java 790

SexyFingers writes "Sun released Java 1.5. The non-API stuff that they've added made it finally "catch-up" with C# - since both languages are built to support OOP from the ground-up, their constructs become almost identical as additional OOP "features" are supported. So if you're doing C# and your foundations in OOP are rock-solid, there really isn't any difference whether you're coding C# or Java."

Here's the list of enhancements to the Java Language:

  1. Generics (C# 2.0 already supports this)
  2. Enhanced For-Loop (the foreach construct in C# 1.0, duh!)
  3. Autoboxing/Unboxing (C# 1.0 already has this, everything is an object, even the primitives - not really, but they do it so well...)
  4. Typesafe Enums (again C# 1.0 already implemented this, but I think they've added a little bit more twist in Java, that its actually a better implementation)
  5. Varargs (C# 1.0's params construct, ellipsis construct in C++)
  6. Static Import (I don't know if C# 1.0 has this, or C#2.0, but C# has a construct for aliasing your imports - which is way cooler. Static Import, actually promotes bad coding habits IMHO)
  7. Metadata/Annotations (this is C# 1.0's Attributes, Sun's upturned noses just gave it a fancier name - also, C#'s implementation is better and more intuitive)

They've beefed up the API some, and integrated several packages with the regular JSDK that used to be a part of a separate package or installation ---in my NSHO, the Java API has become bloated...

At this point (even before Whidbey) the deciding factor (as always) for Enterprise work, when choosing a language platform, should be the support it has behind it, in terms of IDE, tools, api, and longevity of the vendor pushing it (forget the OpenSource crap argument, those guys are too in love with Perl, Python, and Ruby - Java could become the child nobody wants to talk about if Sun dies) - right now that's C# and the .NET Framework ---

If you ask Paul Graham though, both language would be utter crap and fit only for idiots :) http://www.paulgraham.com/gh.html [I'm exaggerating, so hold off on those flames.]

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790 comments

Let the flame wars begin! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494236)

Burn, baby, burn! ^_^

Nooooo, my ass is on fire!

I code C# for a living (4, Insightful)

carpe_noctem (457178) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494240)

...and let me tell you, java doesn't have to do that much to "catch up" to it.

Re:I code C# for a living (1)

danheskett (178529) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494275)

What don't you like about C#? Or do you just feel that C#/.NET and Java are roughly equivalent?

Re:I code C# for a living (4, Interesting)

carpe_noctem (457178) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494379)

Maybe I just don't grok OO design, but the whole language is really abstract. Nothing seems to tie together to anything else in any sort of logical fashion, and it takes hours to figure out how anything works.

Meh, that's just my take on it. And it would appear that my opinion is officially modded "troll". Oh, well. =/

moo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494241)

moo

supported overtime? (0, Offtopic)

gregarican (694358) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494245)

Does this mean the code developers get paid for working overtime?

I hope so. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494523)

Having to deal with these new features, in large projects with many people, will be hell.

Why is the Java language adding all of the misfeatures of C#? Autoboxing causes more problems in the long run than having to explicitely boxing objects. I'd rather than do a little more typing (no pun intended) to avoid confusing idiosyncracies of autoboxing. Generics? Ugh.. you mean we have to see that nasty template crap from C++ again? Typesafe enums? I haven't had a chance to look at the implementation so I'm going to abstain commenting about them. Varargs-- why? It's so much easier (and more intuitive) to create an array of objects and pass them as a parameter. Static Import? I'll abstain talking about this one as I don't know much about it. All I know is the concept of aliasing imports sucks for large projects! Let's just say, that everyone and their dog will alias various libraries with their own abbreviations and cutting/pasting code snippits between other people will be a fucking pain to detangle! Metadata/annotations/attibutes: Ugh, more syntactic sugar that belongs in the trash. Pain. Agony.

Quite frankly, I'd rather work in the ((parenthesis) hell) of Lisp than having to deal with all these unwieldy features.

Sounds a lot like religion (-1, Troll)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494246)

Just that some sell their soul to the devil.

Re:Sounds a lot like religion (-1, Offtopic)

kfg (145172) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494274)

Q: If you toss a banjo and an accordian off the top of the Empire State Building, which one hits the ground first?

A: Who cares?

KFG

Re:Sounds a lot like religion (-1, Offtopic)

darth_MALL (657218) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494361)

There is a significant air cavity in an extended accordian. Presumably, when dropped, the accordian would extend (if not locked in the compressed position) and act like a parachute to a small degree. This would probably slow the accordian enough that it would fall behind the banjo slightly; and once they reach terminal velocity it would not catch up. The banjo should hit the ground first. Just a theory.

Re:Sounds a lot like religion (5, Insightful)

jayminer (692836) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494489)

I code C# for a living, so according to your definition, sold (or more appropriately rented) my soul to the devil. (This does not change the fact that I personally prefer free/open source technology. My PDA, my media players, my home operating system are all free/open source based.)

Java is not any more closer than C# to open source technologies. Sun doesn't like open source, just as Microsoft.

It's a very well known fact that Java has been a base (or in other words "the" figure) for Microsoft while developing C#, but that does not imply that "Java is good, C# is bad" or vice versa.

I would be happier personally to code in Java, but professional life yields to disqualify who resists new technology.
Your choice of programming language is not your religion, and it can change continuously through your life. Just like your operating system.

All in it together (5, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494254)

How about a cross-compiler that takes advantage of this vendor competition in cooperation to combine both communities of programmers into one pool targeting either virtual machine?

Re:All in it together (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494315)

Libraries? You have four options: port Java's libraries to C#; port C#'s libraries to Java; write some kind of wrapper which interfaces with both; write new libraries from scratch. All of those are harder work than bytecode translation.

Re:All in it together (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494341)

OK well now you want too much ;)

Re:All in it together (2, Funny)

Gherald (682277) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494370)

> How about a cross-compiler that takes advantage of this vendor competition in cooperation to combine both communities of programmers into one pool targeting either virtual machine?

And in other news, Microsoft decides to bundle Cygwin with Longhorn...

(ok so maybe Mono could do Java, not that I understand why they'd want to)

Re:All in it together (4, Informative)

jungd (223367) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494495)

ikvm.net ( http://www.ikvm.net ) is a java VM for .NET/Mono that uses classpath for the JDK API. It can also statically cross-compile java bytescodes into IL code. For example, you can compile a .jar into a .dll (even the resources are preserved).

Re:All in it together (1)

carpe_noctem (457178) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494496)

You know, microsoft does have a tool that can import java code into .NET and essentially "compile" it into a c# project. I've never used it, but I've heard it works pretty well...

Fair and Balanced (-1, Troll)

ifreakshow (613584) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494256)

Seems like the author has a bias towards C#. Is slashdot becoming Fair and Balanced like Fox News.

Re:Fair and Balanced (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494321)

Seems like the author has a bias towards C#. Is slashdot becoming Fair and Balanced like Fox News.

Oh, you mean "Fair and Balanced" like the usual open source/Linux fanboyism that nomally occurs?

Fix the link (2, Informative)

eissimuf (167535) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494262)

Fix that first link. It shouldn't have a slash at the end:

http://java.sun.com/j2se/1.5.0/docs/relnotes/fea tu res.html

Re:Fix the link (2, Funny)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494316)

You should have seen the original story from the future. It said, "Sun releases Java". Pretty short intro. :-)

It turned out that the submitter (or someone editing the article) lost the rest of the link when they submitted it. Thus the source code showed:
Sun releases <A href=" http:// Java 1.5</A>

(lots more text here)

Learn to write? (5, Funny)

Palshife (60519) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494277)

I've never seen so many grammatical errors. You win.

Re:Learn to write? (1)

Otter (3800) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494452)

And the linked page doesn't exist. And (for the Java-mostly-ignorant like myself, who were wondering why 1.5 is coming out years after Java 2), it's about JDK 5.0 (aka J2SE 1.5.0). Other than that, it's a nice job by the editors.

Re:Learn to write? (1)

Palshife (60519) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494498)

I've learned to blame nobody for the silly versioning Sun does for Java. Java 2 is a pretty strange moniker for a language platform with version numbers in the 1.5 range, and then calling 1.5 JDK 5.0 is just darnright batty.

But hey, we get autoboxing! See ya later longValue()!

what about... (4, Funny)

syrinx (106469) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494282)

and you're foundations in OOP is rock-solid

What about our foundations in English?

Re:what about... (3, Funny)

yoyhed (651244) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494368)

You missed another:

and you're foundations in OOP is rock-solid

Come on, people. Conjugate.

flamebait (4, Insightful)

Bert690 (540293) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494284)

It's times like this when you'd REALLY like the ability to mod the story itself as troll/flamebait!

At this point (even before Whidbey) the deciding factor (as always) for Enterprise work, when choosing a language platform, should be the support it has behind it, in terms of IDE, tools, api, and longevity of the vendor pushing it (forget the OpenSource crap argument, those guys are too in love with Perl, Python, and Ruby - Java could become the child nobody wants to talk about if Sun dies) - right now that's C# and the .NET Framework ---

Re:flamebait (3, Interesting)

oniony (228405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494372)

Fully agree. The guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Java has much more support in the industry, .NET in the enterprise is currently painful. The tools are barely usable (Visual Studio debugger on a large application, anyone?) plus he makes some fundamental errors in the list. .NET does not support auto-unboxing for example (at least not .NET 1.0 or 1.1).

Re:flamebait (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494446)

What's a better java debugger for large applications?

Re:flamebait (1)

jasonshortphd (818063) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494480)

Yes, we do all the time. Why?
I don't get the Java naming convention. Why the complication.
C# 1.1, I know that that came after 1.0.
Java 2, SDK 1.5 what is that? Is it version 2 or NOT?
Java is a fine language, but I hate their naming conventions!!!!

java == C# lets see (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494288)

try
{
Java = CHash;
}
catch( BullShit bs )
{
System.out.println( "Bullshit" );
}

Java 1.5 vs c# 2.0? (5, Informative)

hpj (26910) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494317)

It's a bit unfair to compare the new Java 1.5 release with c# 2.0 since c# 2.0 is not due to be released until sometime Q2 or Q3 next year. But I do agree that before the 1.5 release Java had a lot of catching up to do to c#, but now c# is a bit behind (Mainly because of it's lack of support for generic classes which Java now supports).

Obligatory (0, Offtopic)

DrSkwid (118965) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494319)



object-oriented design is the roman numerals of computing.

-- Rob Pike

others [dotgeek.org]

Re:Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494397)

No disrespect, but when I see a good OO design done by Rob Pike, I'll pay attention to his critique.

Re:Obligatory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494450)

That is beauty in 9 words.

Only Microsoft (0, Troll)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494322)

Only Microsoft could steal a language and do away with enforced Checked Exceptions (making try blocks optional) because it was "too confusing" to bother to check for errors.

This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. If the problem persists, contact your program vendor.

Re:Only Microsoft (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494466)

No. Checked exceptions were an interesting experiment that turned out to be a bad idea. I won't rehash the arguments here (for a reasonable example, search for Bruce Eckel's writings on the topic), but when the ivory tower of checked exceptions meets the real world of deadlines, something has to give.

I've no plans to use C#, but it's something they definitely did right.

APIs (-1, Troll)

Texodore (56174) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494323)

Let me know when stuff like an XML Parser and MD5 are native in Java.

Re:APIs (3, Insightful)

SnapShot (171582) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494467)

I use DOM within XML as well as the MessageDigest using the MD5 algorithm every day. So I'm letting you know...

Or, is your complaint based on the fact that the libraries that underlie the XML and Security algorithm API's can be swapped out? To me, that's a feature not a bug but YMMV.

Re:APIs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494472)

XML:
http://xml.apache.org/xerces-j/

MD5:
a google search for "md5 java" throws
http://www.twmacinta.com/myjava/fast_md5.p hp

what are you talking about?

Re:APIs (1)

ckuske (19234) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494515)

MD5 is part of the java.security package:
byte[] theTextToDigestAsBytes = "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog's back".getBytes( "8859_1");
MessageDigest md = MessageDigest.getInstance( "MD5" );
md.update( theTextToDigestAsBytes );
byte[] digest = md.digest();
An XML parser has been built into Java since 1.4.

See this [sun.com] .

C# and Java (2, Interesting)

disbaldman (804041) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494331)

Growing up as a software developer in C and C++, I'm really impressed with Java. Although it IS slower and it runs on another layer on top of the OS, it IS still very impressive because OOP gives people the chance to understand programming without having to know much besides how objects interact with each other... (Dog plays with Ball, Car has Wheels, etc.) The platform independence is also a plus, and as our processors increase in speed, the overhead of running on top of a layer which runs on top an OS will become less significant.

I want functions (3, Insightful)

Tablizer (95088) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494338)

I want actual functions, not "activity objects". Almost everyone, except for the extreme OO zealots, agree that OOP is not necessarily the best approach to every problem.

Re:I want functions (1)

MemoryDragon (544441) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494390)

If you want functions, you can use the static imports, which sort of emulates that construct on the users level of the method. But does it really matter?

Re:I want functions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494459)

If you think the language is too OO, use another. If you don't have that luxury, the blame doesn't lie on OO zealots but on the reality of your work environment.

Too bad we can't mod articles (3, Insightful)

MojoRilla (591502) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494345)

This would get a -1 Flamebait.

My feeling is that these features are good news. There should be no gloating on the part of C#, it was clearly built on Java's coattails.

Competition is a great thing, ain't it?

Static Import Bad? (1)

Qwertie (797303) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494350)

It is certainly useful in some situations -- the Math class being the best example I can think of. The fact is, object orientation isn't a universal model of everything; some things, like algorithms, and even singletons, just don't have any need to be "objects". Static Import lets you drop that OO pretense. In the case of Math, where's the bad style in writing Cos(x) instead of Math.Cos(x)?

Re:Static Import Bad? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494518)

Static imports are nothing but evil, Period.
This is not about any OOP concepts or anything, it's purely about readability.
With:
Math.cos(x)
you know exactly where that cos() came from... whereas, when you see
cos(x)
in the code, you'll have to start a quest for the real point of definition ("Is it defined in this class? In a super class? Or... is it no instance method but a static method? Is is some statically imported method? ...").

There's no reason for static imports... if you're still using Dos Edit or edlin for coding... (where saving 3 keystrokes might seem a good idea) well, you should probably reconsider your career...

Flaws in both Languages (2, Insightful)

Dante Shamest (813622) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494356)

Neither are open source.

Both require virtual machines.

Despite being marketed as portable, but have portability issues. Java is not backward compatible with older versions. C# has problems with porting some of the graphics stuff to Linux.

We don't really need them. PHP/Perl serve my needs on the web/server side. C++ and Python server my needs on the desktop side.

They're closely tied to their respective companies.

If you think this is flame-bait, check out this article's title.

Re:Flaws in both Languages (1)

jonathanduty (541508) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494455)

c# runs ontop of a virtual machine ? (I'm not a c# programmer). So c# runs ontop of a virtual machine that only runs on MS windows? Do I have this right?

If so... um... why does c# exist?

Re:Flaws in both Languages (1)

lakcaj (811907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494513)


Since when is C# "marketed as portable"? This is MS's baby, and they don't give a shit if it runs on Linux or the Mac. The Mono project has nothing to do with MS or its C# development team.

Don't hate C (1)

TwoStepsBehind (762238) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494357)

All I need is a language that can do this: void (FAR * boot)(void) = (void (FAR *)())0xffff0000; so whenever my program produces an error, I can automatically reboot the computer. Wait, I can do this with C... By the way, does anyone know if this would work on a Windows machine or would it prevent a process from accessing that portion of memory?

Why is there a C# advertisement on /.? (5, Insightful)

Cloudgatherer (216427) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494364)

Seriously, this looks like an ad for C#, a bunch of claims with very little support/evidence for those claims.

I've worked on C# and Java projects. As far as I'm concerned, C# = MS Java. MS could not control Java, so they abandoned support for it and built thier own "version." It's really a rinse & repeat cycle for MS: see successful software, build own version of said software to try to take over that market as well.

Re:Why is there a C# advertisement on /.? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494465)

why is this comment rated so bad?

isnt it true?

templates (2, Informative)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494366)

After templates (generics) [microsoft.com] come out in a few months, i dont expect java to have an easy time catching up.Personally, I really miss templates from C++ and would drift over to the camp that offers it.

Corrected URL (4, Informative)

waynegoode (758645) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494369)

The first link does not work. For the few who might not notice that the problem is the extra / at the end, thep link should be this [sun.com] .

Perhaps /. will correct the error. I emailed the editor when the story was in preview, but it was too late.

Seems like a good step if (0, Troll)

BaconLT (555713) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494380)

It might be a good step if Java becomes open source; then it's on a different playing field than C# because it seems that the authors of Java realized that C# is superior in many ways.
The playing field they would enter, however, already belongs to Mono.

So, who will survive?

I guess Java has started a revolution without an "exit strategy."

I call bullshit (5, Insightful)

The Bungi (221687) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494383)

There is no apparent point to this "story". It's full of grammatical errors and obvious flamebait arguments (flamebait in the context of the slashbot groupthink). What, "C# is teh roxx0rz and Java.. well, I forgot teh point I was makeing for Java"? "The open source crap argument"? Way to go.

Here's my theory. Along with the ubiquitous slashvertisements and the Microsoft-bash-of-teh-day barrage posts, these are a perfect opportunity to create a story that will generate 1,000+ comments and ten times those many page views and ergo ad impressions.

C'mon, C# vs. Java? Outside of "RIAA sues 86 year-old grandma", "We hate Bush, let's talk" and "Microsoft patents KDE" there is no better source of inflammatory material in the dorkosphere.

Sad, really.

Maybe I'm an oldtimer, but... (4, Funny)

Tony (765) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494511)

C'mon, C# vs. Java? Outside of "RIAA sues 86 year-old grandma", "We hate Bush, let's talk" and "Microsoft patents KDE" there is no better source of inflammatory material in the dorkosphere.

Oh, how I pine for the days of vi vs. Emacs.

- Tony

the crap argument (5, Interesting)

iamchaos (572797) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494386)

Is this article flamebait? Maybe I am just misunderstanding when he says:

"At this point (even before Whidbey) the deciding factor (as always) for Enterprise work, when choosing a language platform, should be the support it has behind it, in terms of IDE, tools, api, and longevity of the vendor pushing it (forget the OpenSource crap argument, those guys are too in love with Perl, Python, and Ruby..."

Which "crap" argument is he talking about? I assume he means that when using those languages you have thousands of directions to go for help in howtos, docs, tutorials, books and of course the loving #perl. I normally would not reply to something like that, but I took offense. Yes I love those languages. They all have strong points and make life fun when coding. I have support and have never had to rely on a company to provide said support. Oh yeah, and I write enterprise software with the mod_perl crap everyday of my life. Thanks.

iamchaos

varargs (1)

$RANDOMLUSER (804576) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494387)

I never did understand the need/desire for varargs in Java. Isn't that what polymorphism is for?

Re:varargs (1)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494487)

I never did understand the need/desire for varargs in Java. Isn't that what polymorphism is for?

Now, I'm enthusiastically waiting for you to sketch the relationship between polymorphism and varargs. The way I see it, there is none.

Hint: polymorphism means dynamically determining the method to execute from the object at runtime. In the context of Java and C++ at least. Think "virtual functions" if that helps.

Re:varargs (1)

Qwertie (797303) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494514)

Say what? Polymorphism != varargs. Varargs is for things like printf, fprintf, and, uh.... sprintf. Ahh, what a great field of possibilities it opens up!

Version (4, Funny)

xPhoenix (531848) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494392)

So which version number is it? Java 2, Java 1.5, or Java 5? Someone should teach these guys to count before they start coding!

Optimization models (2, Informative)

scumbucket (680352) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494393)

Java has a few advantages over C# in optimization. It's very easy to analyze Java programs to be certain that certain memory locations absolutely will not be modified. That's much harder in languages with native pointers. Those invariants allow you to compile out certain calculations that would have to be done at runtime in a C# program. You can even start spreading loop cycles over multiple CPUs, but I'm pretty certain that the present JVMs aren't that smart.

WOO HOO!!!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494405)

It goes to show that MS is still the BEST!!!

Mistake (3, Insightful)

ajs (35943) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494409)

I'm not pleased with the "catch-up" game that Java is playing here. Java was a fairly nice middle-ground betweeen high and low level programming, and what appears to be an effort to become a high level language is rather ominous for those who are interested in testability and performance in Java.

This, BTW, is why you don't want your language to be controled by a company which in turn has a marketing-driven bottom-line. The idea that two languages could co-exist with different target audiences is nonsense to marketing droids, but perfectly reasonable to someone like Guido van Rossum, Larry Wall or any of the other maintainers of truly open-source languages. Open source isn't the only way to maintain this focus, but in today's marketing-driven world, you aren't likely to see too many Bell Labs-like organizations putting out languages like C (which was semi-open source, as was Unix). Java and C# are probably much more typical.

Available application servers. (1)

MacDork (560499) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494416)

So Java is playing syntax catchup with 1.5. (Not making a statement, just noting what the intro seems to imply.) Great, they both seem to be taking plays from the good ol' C playbook. What appservers are available for C# though? Anything not made by Microsoft?

Re:Available application servers. (1)

I confirm I'm not a (720413) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494512)

What appservers are available for C# though? Anything not made by Microsoft?

Not trolling, just curious: what appservers are available for C#, period? I'd guess IIS now has some kind of .net binding? Any others?

Whidbey (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494436)

I wonder how Tiger compares to ASP.NET 2.0? http://www.asp.net/whidbey/

Heh (2, Funny)

KoolDude (614134) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494461)


SexyFingers writes "Sun released Java 1.5...

The ultimate question is... how did you get those sexy fingers ? Java, C# or... Pr0n# ?

Old school here, but is C# anything like C++ (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10494483)

for object oriented programming (never mind window dressing inheritance).

So this is what... (1)

Sanity (1431) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494485)

forget the OpenSource crap argument
...passes for an "article" on Slashdot now? The argument that Open Source software is better because it doesn't rely on an existing vendor is now "crap" - and requires no more justification than that?

Combine this with the fact that nothing here is new news, and you really gotta as what exactly /. editors are for.

slashdot changes stories?? (1)

dAzED1 (33635) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494488)

The story originally was (I hit my back button, and cut/pasted here):
SexyFingers writes "Sun released Java 1.5. The non-API stuff that they've added made it finally "catch-up" with C# - like we were talking about before, since both language is built to support OOP from the ground-up, their constructs become almost identical as additional OOP "features" are supported overtime - so if you're doing C# and you're foundations in OOP is rock-solid, there really isn't any difference whether you're coding C# or Java."

"both language is built" being just one of the changes...now its "both languages are built..."

WTF? There are still grammatical errors in the "story," even with the changes. If there's nothing new to report, why can't we just have no new stories? Someone please make something like what /. used to be...

IIS vs J2EE Servers (5, Informative)

knitterb (103829) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494494)

It's not so much the language that is a question of contest, but the platform they run on. I've done Java programming since 1.1.8, and have deployed on Tomcat, Resin and Weblogic.

Recently I switched to C# (new job) and I have to tell you, the language is pretty neat with some of the tricks you can do. Nothing ground breaking though.

What's really missing is the platform for release, and release management. Where are WARs and EARs for .Net? What the fuck is up with IIS (oh yeah, it's crap)?? Where is any sort of replicated server side session management (no, long ass hidden fields are *not* sessions - and a M$SQLServer *only* solution doesn't count).

The constructs and tricks of a language can be debated as long as you want. You will probably find something nice in every language. But when you have to [operationally] deploy any application, great or not, on some cheap as shit, crap ass, hard to manage, non-repeatable platform such as IIS, that's when the real rubber hits the road with Java.

J2EE deployment platforms are light years ahead of .Net's deployment platform (singular). Man I miss working with J2EE platforms and loathe IIS...even though it is my job to keep all this stuff running on IIS! :(

Important differences between Java and C# (5, Insightful)

daveho (235543) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494500)

While neither Java nor C# is truly free of being controlled by an Evil Corporation(tm), Java at least has multiple vendors, runs on a wide variety of platforms, and has an open standardization process [jcp.org] .

The language doesn't matters, it's the platform! (0, Troll)

diegocgteleline.es (653730) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494509)

So...who cares if java is better/worse than C#?

What Suns try to sell is Java and the Java platform. Sun tells you "Here you have Java, it's better than what you're using because we say so, and you should use it".

Instead, Microsoft sells you a *real* platform. Microsoft tells you "Here you have .NET, it's better than what you're using because we say so, we provide you a nice language likce C#, BUT YOU CAN USE WHATEVER LANGUAGE you want". Which is, to my eyes, looks much better.

Yes, I know, you can use other languages in java. But that's *not* what Sun wants to do, and it's *not* what it's really happening, and because Java is *not* a real standard (it's controlled by some weird committe) the picture doesn't seems like it's going to change. C# is a real open standard (the rest of the .NET platform, the APIs, etc isn't but...) with a open implementation (mono) which is good for people suffering from GPLitis and similar diseases. We can use C# in linux witout using the rest of the .NET platform (same goes for Java, but the sun's java VM license is so weird some distros can't even distribute it without pain...)

Plus, Microsoft has the power to say "here you have this lenguage, use it". Sun can try to say the same, but very few people will listen them.
In fact, they've been doing it for 10 years and still everybody uses C++ for things like browsers, AIM clients... (don't tell me Java wasn't targetted to do that, if I can't write normal programs in Java - not because you can't but because Java sucks for that - why I would want to use it in first place?!?)

With C#, stuck in windoze (5, Insightful)

JPyObjC Dude (772176) | more than 9 years ago | (#10494522)

so if you're doing C# and you're foundations in OOP is rock-solid, there really isn't any difference whether you're coding C# or Java.

He kind of forgot that there are many programmers and customers who DON'T want to deploy their systems on win32. With Java apps, you don't have to. In fact you can choose almost any operating system and hardware. Anybody who chooses C# over Java for enterprise deployments is truly a MicroWeenie.

I much prefer my 8 processor HP UX box any day :]

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