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Bootlegged Music in Russia

samzenpus posted more than 9 years ago | from the even-the-russians-are-doing-it dept.

Music 888

Guppy06 writes "MosNews.com has an interesting article on the thoughts and opinions of everyday Muscovites on the rampant music (et al) piracy in their country. It seems that some of them don't have much trouble justifying it to themselves, with quotes like 'Yes, I know that some of the sellers are here with burned CDs. But they have to earn a living too, I can understand them.' The article also mentions 'In a country where the average monthly salary is about $240, buying the latest album for $15 is a grotesque luxury, let alone spending $600 on Adobe Photoshop or a similar computer program.' Apparently, catchy slogans like 'Listen up, you pirate, I choose copyright!' just aren't working."

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True (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583320)

If these things didn't cost so much and were worth the effort to earn money for them, piracy MIGHT drop but most likely not. Long live FOSS!

Rampant Music! GASP! (2, Interesting)

Frennzy (730093) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583324)

`Especially that 'et al' type of music.

Man, I'm glad I don't live somewhere that I would have to listen to 'et al' music. And I'm sure there's a lot of people who agree with me, but don't have the space to be a signatory to that here...

Whoa (4, Funny)

sbszine (633428) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583407)

I'm hardcore, man, I listen to heavy et al.

Re:Whoa (1)

Frennzy (730093) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583450)

BLPTTNNQEWR!

Now that I have the fluid out of my nose...I really wish I had thought of that.

You know, of course, that it's a one way ticket to (all points), they call...it...heavy et. al.

Re:Whoa (2, Funny)

Bishop923 (109840) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583527)

meh, I listened to et al before it went mainstream, I've moved on to etc and ...

Maybe they need a new slogan (5, Funny)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583325)

"Listen up, Russia. You signed the Bourne treaty, so start living up to your side of the bargain by eradicating these large-scale piracy rings or face the coming winter without trade partners."

or

"Information wants to be Free! That CD wants to cost 15 bucks!"

or

"In Capitalist America, nubile faux-lesbian rock groups ignore YOU!"

Re:Maybe they need a new slogan (0, Offtopic)

sqrt(2) (786011) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583368)

For the uninitiated. [google.com]

Re:Maybe they need a new slogan (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583386)

You signed the Bourne treaty...

Is that the one that says that any country that doesn't respect copyright is going to get a visit from secret CIA super assassins?

Or perhaps you were referring to the Berne Convention...

Re:Maybe they need a new slogan (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583447)

It's a sad day on slashdot when Bourne gets a reference to the book/movie but not the shell.

Re:Maybe they need a new slogan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583413)

Listen up, Russia. You signed the Bourne treaty

Hopefully they signed the Bern Convention too.

Re:Maybe they need a new slogan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583431)

Actually, it is spelled "Berne Convention", but Bern is an acceptable spelling for the city's name.

Re:Maybe they need a new slogan (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583488)

The United States has signed more than a few treaties which it ignores. The Geneva Conventions being the most recent example (thanks Bush, for Gitmo!).

I thought in Russia... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583326)

...music bootlegged you?

Oblig. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583333)

Hmmmmm.
Must.... resist..... urge...
In Soviet Russia, Music Pirates You!

15 bucks (4, Insightful)

Coneasfast (690509) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583338)

15 bucks is a lot anywhere for a cd! personally, i don't think it's justified to spend that much on a cd that maybe has 1 or 2 songs worth listening too.

that's why i like online music stores where you can get singles for $1. something like this could really kick of in russia, not sure what the internet usage is over there though.

Re:15 bucks (4, Insightful)

Morkano (786068) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583359)

that's why i like online music stores where you can get singles for $1. something like this could really kick of in russia,

$1 out of an average of $260/month income is still HUGE. The problem is it's way too expensive for them in general. Of course, if they lowered the prices for Russia, then we could just buy music and software there for peanuts, and the publishers would be fucked.

Re:15 bucks (5, Insightful)

G-funk (22712) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583493)

Of course, if they lowered the prices for Russia, then we could just buy music and software there for peanuts, and the publishers would be fucked.

They're fucked anyway. And I say good riddance to them. What they did worked before the internet, but it doesn't now. They use mass media to control 13yo girls and buy popularity, they suffer when we use the same systems to get their content free. I'd sleep if there were never another new song recorded, there's so much out there I'll never come close to running out of new stuff to listen to. And the people who're in it for the music will still produce, and the people who want to see live acts, and want to support the acts they like, will still pay.

Re:15 bucks (5, Informative)

Raztus (745280) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583384)

Something like this already exists...www.allofmp3.com. Sure, the target audience may be more foreigners than Russians, but the prices at which they sell music equal out to about the same as iTunes, on a Russian salary.

Re:15 bucks (2, Interesting)

Stanistani (808333) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583389)

Then again, when I went to my last Comic-Con in San Diego (a huge show, hundreds and hundreds of vendors), at least 50% of the DVDs and CDs were bootleg... my son pointed this out to the security folks... and they almost threw HIM out... what's OUR excuse in the US?

Re:15 bucks (5, Insightful)

Z-MaxX (712880) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583470)

I truly can't understand why a blockbuster Hollywood movie with the world's most famous actors, thousands of special effects created by the world's most powerful supercomputers, and a credits list that takes 5-10 minutes just to scroll by on the screen normally costs about $15, while a CD, often with already-released songs, and requiring only a singer, guitarist, drummer, etc., and a sound technician, costs the same amount. *What is up with that?!*

Re:15 bucks (5, Insightful)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583536)

I'm not sure what portion of a DVD's cost goes to cover promotion, but 50% of the cost of a CD does. So $10 of that $20 CD you might have just bought will go to cover things like apperances on MTV's TRL, appearances, radio play and other forms of advertising, which are usually handled by the record labels. In addition to that, the labels take cuts in other direct and indirect ways so that something like 70% of the points (a point is about 80 cents) on an album go to the label. The artist themselves usually get one or two points - so from that expensive album, they're getting 80 cents to $1.60. The cost to manufacture the CD and put the music on it and print the sleeve and wrap it is about 1 point.

The reason they can afford to make DVDs for so cheap is probably because they've already factored the cost of promotion and other expenses into the movie itself and that is usually recovered in the box office long before it hits store shelves.

That and the fact that I'm sure they've conducted expensive research that has surely shown consumers are willing to spend six hours worth of pay on a CD or DVD, but not anything more than that. $20 for a CD and $30 for a DVD might be the price break after which people begin to stop and think "wait, do I really want to dish out this much of my income for a movie I'll only watch one time?".

I would find the cost of both DVD an CD to be acceptable if you were paying for the right to posess and view the content whenever you wanted for the rest of your life. But if your media is lost, stolen, damaged or wears out (or there hardware to play it is no longer made), then it's a rip off to have to pay for it all over again.

Just imagine you're some Star Wars dork and you payd $30 for three star wars movies on VHS. Then you spend $30 on each for laser disc. Then you spend $30 each for DVD. Then someone stole those DVDs or they were damaged while you were moving out of your dorm and you had to spend another $30. That's $480 on just three star wars movies over time - and your life isn't even half over year. Just wait until the next "big amazing format" comes out and you have to upgrade again if you ever want to watch those movies. :)

The best thing I've ever done is just give up buying DVDs and CDs and going to the theater. I have far more money in my pocket and can get more entertainment for the buck by purchasing used books at half the price.

When I went to Russia... (5, Interesting)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583339)

...EVERY single CD I found in shops were bootlegs. I couldn't believe that people were actually buying them. Some of them were so bad that you could see the inkjet printer lines on the cover/back. Needless to say, I didn't buy any of it, but in some places, people have no trouble with this kind of behaviour.

Re:When I went to Russia... (4, Interesting)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583411)

Whats funny is you don't have to go all that far to see this sort of thing. Last time I was in BC (in Vancouver) I saw pirated cd's, pirated dc games (in this case they were burned copies with nicely printed covers) and pirated VCD's - these were silver and had nice covers etc - but they sold for like 2$ usd.

Re:When I went to Russia... (1)

Lorean (756656) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583432)

There places like that in North America. You just have to know where to look.

Re:When I went to Russia... (3, Interesting)

pagal_paanda (824030) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583453)

I believe what music labels should do is sell localized versions of their music in these countries. What I mean by that is, companies need to sell their music at "localized" rates, so that instead of making no money from these sales, at least they could make some money. Just my two cents.

Re:When I went to Russia... (4, Insightful)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583517)

Sure, but what's to keep people from importing these into the U.S.? Their domestic sales would suffer as a result.

Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (5, Interesting)

lothar97 (768215) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583340)

I guess since things are so cheap in Russia, they get music downloads at $.01 per meg downloaded at allofmp3.com [allofmp3.com] . I wonder if they can afford that. Hey, wait, I can get downloads from there for the same price as the Russians as well!

My research indicates that it's legit, and has been online for awhile. According to the copyright laws of the US, you can "import" things from outside the US, even if they violate US law if purchased here. As long as it's legit where you get it, and you import it for your personal use, you're OK. Kind of the same how you can buy bootlegs outside the US and bring them home. Heck, it even gets good reviews [thetechguide.com]

Plus, they have not ripped me off since May, and so far no one has shown how this is illegal.

While I know it's not Soviet Russia, it's damn cheap. You can download an album for $1.50- and it's legit.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1)

tpgp (48001) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583418)

I guess since things are so cheap in Russia, they get music downloads at $.01 per meg downloaded at allofmp3.com. I wonder if they can afford that. Hey, wait, I can get downloads from there for the same price as the Russians as well!

It isn't legal for Russians - they export the music due to a loophole in Russia's law. The service is not offered domestically.

and so far no one has shown how this is illegal.

Illegal? Maybe not - but unethical as the artist does not get paid.

You may as well use p2p networks for free - I don't believe it is illegal to download from them either (only upload/offer files)

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1)

danielsfca2 (696792) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583466)

> It isn't legal for Russians - they export the music due to a loophole in Russia's law. The service is not offered domestically. (emphasis added)

Never heard that claim before. Sources?

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583521)

It isn't legal for Russians - they export the music due to a loophole in Russia's law. The service is not offered domestically.

If this is true then why is it that by default the site is in Russian?

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0, Flamebait)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583422)

I don't care if it's legit by whatever loophole on whichever side: it's immoral. And you're helping them continue their shady service by advertising it on Slashdot. Do you think the non-Russian artists who are on that site get paid for their hard work? 99.9999999% that they get jack squat. Shame on you for using such a service. Might as well use P2P if you use their service and not feed the pockets of those who set up such dubious services.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583452)

Boo hoo. I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on DVDs and CDs (I would say almost $14,000 together in the last eight yeras). I deserve a break.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583532)

I've spent thousands and thousands of dollars on DVDs and CDs (I would say almost $14,000 together in the last eight yeras). I deserve a break. - well, actually, you do not deserve a break. Just because you paid 'too much' money (you still could afford it somehow, eh?) for some CDs or DVDs does not mean that the publisher or the artists owe you that next CD or a DVD.

I don't buy CDs from publishers. I bought some from the artists directly. But then again, I almost don't listen to music and I don't have a TV.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583547)

Of course I deserve a break. The government found that the RIAA were guilty of illegal price fixing. Are you telling me that after spending $14,000 on illegally price-fixed content, I only deserve $15 (which is what they offered - at most - for the settlement)? I'm sure the price fixing accounted for more than only one tenth of one percent of the cost of each album.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583428)

Wow. Sir, if you ever need a kidney, just ask.... Never heard of this before!

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (2, Informative)

ICA (237194) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583436)

IANAL (obligatory comment)

From what I understand though, it is only legal for you to use in the country with lax copyright laws. You cannot bring it into this country. Once you do, you are once again bound by our copyright laws.

Quit trying to rationalize unethical behavior. Either buy the CD or purchase the song online, or just go steal the damn thing like a good pirate.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583469)

There's nothing to rationalize. We enjoy screwing over the MPAA/RIAA as much as they enjoy screwing us over. It's a game, you see? So Madonna gets one less privatre jet in her fleet this year. Big fucking deal.

It's funny how everyone can rationalize what THEY want but talk shit about everyone else. How many of the people saying "If you don't buy that $20 CD, the artist isn't going to get their $1.60 for it!" are pot smokers and go around justifying *that*, despite its illegality and (therein) immorality?

Where's the rational? (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583482)

He just says it cheap, and maybe legal (debatable, and it hardly matters unless you've got enough money to afford one hell of a lawyer, which would kinda defeat the purpose of cheap music). Read his post and it seems empty of ethical arguments.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583508)

DOWNLOADING MUSIC IS NOT IMMORAL OR UNETHICAL!

There is nothing wrong with music being free. Whether or not you are singing it, using a piano roll in a player piano, listening to the radio, or listening to it on an iPOD.

Sharing of a cultural staple such as music is good for society. If not a single musician got paid, I think music would be BETTER not worse. Society would function. The true artists would still make music. And you know what? They would still make money: performing, licensing their music for movies/commercials, endorsements, and possibly even a small amount on distribution.

That music downloading is BAD is something you are taught.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583542)

"Ethical" is a matter of opinion, and mine is that downloading off P2P is more ethical* than buying from the Russians. Here's my reasoning: if I download off P2P, the artist doesn't make any money. But if I buy from the Russians, the artist doesn't make any money and a third-party profits off the artist's work. I'd rather just mail the artist some cash instead.

*yes, I said "more ethical," not "less unethical." Please don't flame me about it; I'm not in the mood to argue. Instead, just read this [kuro5hin.org] .

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583473)

This is a very convenient rationalization, but not true. The US actually has a number of rules regulating import (that are admittedly obscure). They prohibit the import of materials that are (or often, aren't) illegal in the United States. US airports will state that bootlegged material isn't allowed.

Use some common sense. Obviously you can't import child porn or drugs from Amsterdam, regardless if it's for your personal use, or if it's "legit" in Amsterdam.

If you're genuinly concerned with following the law (which I doubt), I double checked this info with 5 seconds of Googling, you might try that yourself.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (4, Informative)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583484)

My research indicates that it's legit, and has been online for awhile.

It is NOT legal to download from them if you are in the US.

Basically how this goes is that:

1) It is infringing to reproduce the work in copies (17 USC 106(1)).

2) Downloading constitutes reproduction of the work in a new copy given the definitions of the pertinent terms in the law (17 USC 101; Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 75 F. Supp. 2d 1290 (D. Utah 1999) ("[A] copy of the [work] is made in the computer's random access memory (RAM), to permit viewing of the material. And in making a copy, even a temporary one, the person who browsed infringes the copyright.")).

3) The downloader is the party that's responsible for the reproduction occuring (Marobie-FL v. NAFED, 983 F. Supp. 1167 (N.D. Ill. 1997)).

According to the copyright laws of the US, you can "import" things from outside the US, even if they violate US law if purchased here.

No, that's not true.

1) Importation is, per 17 USC 602(a), an aspect of the distribution right at 17 USC 106(3), and therefore, any exemptions to the distribution right don't apply to the reality of the infringement being unlawful reproduction as shown conclusively above.

2) Importation, being a form of distribution, requires a copy (which is defined in 17 USC 101 as a tangible object, such as a hard drive containing a work, as opposed to intangible bits all by themselves) to cross the border. This does not happen when you download, thus it's not importation.

3) You can't read, or you're remarkably stupid, because while there is an exemption for some importation in 17 USC 602(a), that exemption does NOT apply to 17 USC 602(b) which ALSO prohibits importation. Specifically, it is always illegal to import a work that was made in a manner where, had US law applied, it would've been illegal, regardless of the local law where it was made.

so far no one has shown how this is illegal.

Well, now you can retract that statement, I guess.

Enjoy.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583520)

It's pretty clear that you are not a lawyer (per your sig). Your interpretations don't agree with those of lawyers (real ones) who say it would be very difficult to prove downloading from allofmp3 is illegal.

Perhaps YOU could retract your statement.

Re:Thanks Russia for cheap music downloads! (1)

brandonY (575282) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583541)

("[A] copy of the [work] is made in the computer's random access memory (RAM), to permit viewing of the material. And in making a copy, even a temporary one, the person who browsed infringes the copyright.")).

Something just occured to me when I read this. Isn't making a copy of a document in RAM for the purposes of viewing very nearly what the human eye does? The eye views the document, and assuming you're looking straight at it, a neat digital copy is encoded and sent straight to your brain. Surely by the same logic merely viewing the image is copyright infringement?

Amsterdam here I come! (1)

tmw_prophecy (516636) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583504)

you can "import" things from outside the US, even if they violate US law if purchased here. As long as it's legit where you get it, and you import it for your personal use
Drug barons every where are going about it all the wrong way apparently :-)

In Soviet Russia... (0, Redundant)

Yehtmae (704201) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583342)

.... music pirates YOU!

The price of music (4, Insightful)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583343)

An album costs 25% of a week's pay. The problem may start there. They simply can't do that. Why don't the music publishers price music a little more closely to a country's economy?

Re:The price of music (4, Informative)

Frennzy (730093) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583399)

because they are heartless, soul-sucking, brain-numbing Bastards.

Re:The price of music (5, Insightful)

konekoniku (793686) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583415)

Because there will be smart opportunists out there practicing arbitrage, i.e., buying cheap music in poor economies and importing it into rich ones and taking advantage of the price differential to earn a profit.

This is one of the reasons why pharmaceutical companies are so reluctant to sell AIDS drugs for cheap in developing African nations. They know almost no one in African countries can pay full price for their drugs, but they're afraid that if they lower the costs of their drugs in these developing nations, people will buy drugs there and import it back into the first world, cutting into the margins they need to cover the costs of development and to underwrite further research.

Re:The price of music (0, Offtopic)

yukio (457122) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583427)

Not just music, but food. McDOnald's does a somewhat better job than the software and music companies.

The Economist's BigMac Index is a chart of how many hours of work it takes in different economies to buy a BigMac - another product that transcends cultures and political constructs...

http://www.economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayS to ry.cfm?story_id=2708584

Re:The price of music (1)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583546)

Link doesn't work. Besides, food is different, as you can't buy a million BigMacs in India (hah!) and ship it to the states for a profit. For non-perishables, it's different.

Grey imports (3, Informative)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583464)

"Why don't the music publishers price music a little more closely to a country's economy?"

Cos then you could buy the stuff cheap over there and ship it back home saving a bundle.

Course that practice has been made illegal in the UK, the free market is wonderful, no?

Guess what makes it illegal...

Copyright designs and patents act 1988 and the Trade Marks Act 1994. It is illegal to import/distribute into the UK without the opyright or trade mark owner's consent. There's a bunch of additional stuff which makes it even more illegal to import software.

Levi vs Tesco and Sony vs Tesco.

Re:The price of music (3, Informative)

Nermal6693 (622898) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583477)

I went to Indonesia a few years ago, and you could pick up pirated movies for around $1 each. In order to compete, the studios offered licenced movies for about $5 each.

If you're hungry... (5, Insightful)

Peyna (14792) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583345)

It seems that some of them don't have much trouble justifying it to themselves, with quotes like 'Yes, I know that some of the sellers are here with burned CDs. But they have to earn a living too, I can understand them.'

While it's kind of a stretch, it's basically the same as "it's okay to steal a loaf of bread if you're hungry." (With the vendors being the thieves).

well, to be fair (1)

Anubis350 (772791) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583363)

actually, in the US if it can be proven that the need for self preservation outways the crime committed than its a possible defense in court

Re:well, to be fair (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583460)

Apparently you have experience. Given your complete lack of any understanding of English, I would assume you probably dropped out of school.

What about allofmp3.com? (1)

Photar (5491) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583350)

Allofmp3.com is russian and charges pennies per megabyte. Thats super cheap and legit right?

Re:What about allofmp3.com? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583382)

Well, you're half right. It's super cheap.

Re:What about allofmp3.com? (1)

cpt kangarooski (3773) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583510)

It may be legal in Russia. I don't know anything about Russian copyright law, and I don't care.

But it IS illegal to download from them if you're in the US, as I discussed in a thread here [slashdot.org] . (If you'd like more detail, and cannot google for the cited materials, I'm happy to get into it further).

So you're kind of screwed.

Is it even vaguely surprising to you that US copyright law would screw you and would generally not leave a gaping loophole for you to use? It shouldn't be. I find a good rule of thumb to be that if a deal seems too good to be true, it's suspicious as all hell.

Re:What about allofmp3.com? (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583533)

It may be legal in Russia. I don't know anything about Russian copyright law, and I don't care.

I think the point was that it is in fact legal in Russia where the price of CD's is too great for most familys to pay. Remember this is an article about Russia, not the US.

Isn't that all they do over there (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583351)

run run the europeans are invading and they have....burned cd's?

http://eric.blogdns.com/ [blogdns.com]

*BEHEADING is dying (0, Offtopic)

CmdrTaco (troll) (578383) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583354)

It is now official. Headcraft confirms: *BEHEADING is dying

One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered *BEHEADING community when Headcraft confirmed that the total number of executions by *BEHEADING dropped yet again, now down to less than a fraction of 1 percent of all executions worldwide. Coming on the heels of a recent Headcraft survey which plainly states that *BEHEADING has dropped dramatically after the US invasion of Iraq, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. *BEHEADING is collapsing in complete disarray, as fittingly exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Ruthless Dictators comprehensive execution test.

You don't need to be a Jailed Dictator [floogie.org] [floogie.org] to predict *BEHEADING's future. The hand writing is on the wall: *BEHEADING faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for *BEHEADING because *BEHEADING is dying. Things are looking very bad for *BEHEADING. As many of us are already aware, *BEHEADING continues to lose market share. Rivers of blood no longer flow from headless corpses..

Ruthless dictator *BEHEADING is the most endangered of them all, having lost 93% of its core dictators. The sudden and unpleasant deaths of long time *BEHEADING evangelists Uday and Qusay Hussein only serve to underscore the point more clearly. There can no longer be any doubt: *BEHEADING is dying.

Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers.

*BEHEADING leader Qusay stated that 500,000 Iraqis 'dissappeard' during Saddam's regime. How many of them died by *BEHEADING? Let's see. Executions were generally carried out by hanging, bullet to the head, or *BEHEADING. With *BEHEADING being to most difficult to clean up after, let's conservatively estimate that only 5% of the Iraqis that 'disappeared' were *BEHEADED, so 500,000 / 20 = 25,000 deaths by *BEHEADING during Saddam's regime. Saddam took power in 1979, meaning his regime lasted 24 years. Therefore there were (25,000 / 24) ~ 1041 *BEHEADINGS PER YEAR during Saddam's regime. This is consistent with human rights reports. Since the US invasion, there have been approximately 50 *BEHEADINGS. Therefore there have been (50 / 1.5) ~ 33 *BEHEADINGS PER YEAR after the US invasion. Clearly, the terrorists are not as efficient at *BEHEADING. *BEHEADINGS have dropped 97% in the past 18 months. Clearly *BEHEADING is dying.

Due to the troubles of Saddam's Regime, what with it being gone and everything, massive amounts of *BEHEADING stopped and was taken over by a dismal few but high profile *BEHEADINGs that were carried out by nothing but cowardly terrorists Now *BEHEADING is also dead, its corpse turned over to yet another charnel house.

All major surveys show that *BEHEADING has rapidly declined in market share. *BEHEADING is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If *BEHEADING is to survive at all it will be among terrorist networks. *BEHEADING continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, *BEHEADING is dying.

Fact: *BEHEADING is dead.

© 2004 CmdrTaco (troll)
[ Reply to This [slashdot.org] | Parent [slashdot.org] ]

Re:*BEHEADING is dying (-1, Troll)

asciiwhite (679872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583375)

In other news, you're an idiot....

Re:*BEHEADING is dying (0, Troll)

asciiwhite (679872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583492)

Well... [movingideasanimation.com] ?

You are a faggot. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583515)

It is official. Netcraft confirms: You are a faggot.
...
Fact: You are a faggot.


With love,
Luke727

RIAA in russia... (1)

80 85 83 83 89 33 (819873) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583357)

RIAA will just try to tax CD blanks to about $15....

Re:RIAA in russia... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583437)

that would rule actually.

the russian mob would put hits out on the RIAA execs

Cannot afford expensive programs... (3, Insightful)

baywulf (214371) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583364)

People in some countries will argue they cannot afford to legally buy some software because the cost is very high compared to how much they get pain. But then there is nothing to prevent some company from developing software in the country that people can afford because the cost of development is cheaper there isn't it?

Re:Cannot afford expensive programs... (1)

baywulf (214371) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583459)

Oops ... pain -> paid

Well, there's the whole lack of a budget thing... (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583503)

if you can't afford a $15 dollar CD where are you going to get the money to develope a world class photo editor? Assuming you've got the skill (which takes plenty since you're probably spend thounsands of hours working around Adobe's patents), what are you going to do about food for the 2 or 3 years it takes to get competitive with the nearly 'free' Adobe Photoshop cds?

No, the programmers work for the US (1)

Colin Smith (2679) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583525)

You have heard of outsourcing?

The US software company gets software developed cheap in Russia, China, India for a fraction of the US, but still a bloody good wage in their country. Puts a truly massive markup on it and sells it to Americans for a profit.

Well duh! (5, Insightful)

roman_mir (125474) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583374)

Apparently, catchy slogans like 'Listen up, you pirate, I choose copyright!' just aren't working." - what is so difficult to understand? In the former Soviet Republics there are hundreds of millions of poor people who their entire lives lived under opression of a corrupt 'communist' government. Nothing in that society belonged to anyone. Property rights are virtually non-existant. When the president of the Country puts the most famous, richest person in the country into a prison cell for basically just that - being rich and thus dangerous (well Hodorkovskiy sort of was aiming at the president's position) and the company is now going to be sold at 1/10th of the value to the buddies of the president and to those who will share some of the wealth, what the hell do you expect from the people? Respect copyrights? HA!

It also works the other way around - when the people of a country, whose assets were supposedely owned by noone and everyone at once were 'freed' from the regime, and the valuable assets were divided among the top elite who had access to some money and were in power, and the average person was left in the cold with nothing at all, after slaving their entire lives for this regime, these are the people who allow Putin to be the president, obviously he is representative of the population and who is to say that anyone at all in that country would behave differently from Putin given the power, then what do you expect from those people?

Generations of Soviets grew up with assumption that they had to steal from the state because the state stole from them. The sense of someone elses property is nonexistant. Mix this with the fact that making digital copies nowadays is cheaper than buying a loaf of bread and you have yourself a runaway copyright infringement process on 1/6th of the landmass of this planet.

damn pirates! (5, Funny)

fulana_lover (652004) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583380)

those godless communist bastards are preying on our innocent capitalism aryan heros like 50 cent, eminem, and britney... think of the children!!!

The slogan says it all maybe? (3, Interesting)

Saven Marek (739395) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583381)

> Apparently, catchy slogans like 'Listen up, you pirate, I choose copyright!' just aren't working

Well if respecting copyright is a choice then why would anyone choose to pay?

The iPod Lite Project [theipodliteproject.com] taking orders soon.

Re:The slogan says it all maybe? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583439)

>>>The iPod Lite Project [theipodliteproject.com] taking orders soon.

You have got to be f'in kidding me.

All Copyright laws are not created equal. (3, Insightful)

muntumbomoklik (806936) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583387)

In fact, societal perceptions of copyright vary greatly. If it's difficult enough convincing people in 'rich' countries with disposable income that copyrights must be adhered to, imagine going to a less-than-rich country and preaching the same thing. Even if the people who use pirated software or music wanted to be legal, often they can't afford to.

A lot of countries have no concept of copyright to begin with. The battle to standardize intellectual property laws across the world will be very, very long.

i for one... (2, Interesting)

to be a troll (807210) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583388)

am quite thankful for the Russian bootleg economy. When travelling through Nepal and India really the only music selection I had was that of Russian imported bootlegs. Which is actually quite vast!! as I recognized many (if not most) US titles... They were also priced cheaply enough that I would not be over-concious in keeping them protected while traveling... In fact it was there I first picked up and listened to an album by the band called Portisehead, whom to this day I would say is one of the best bands in all of existance and who's music is THE perfect soundtrack for touring the third world!!

Re:i for one... (1)

Frennzy (730093) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583426)

Wow! Great! What a wonderful way to express a love for theft! Poritsehead [sic], are, I'm quite sure, happy that you went and bought an illegal copy of their music. Wow...you are SO worldly.

Re:i for one... (2, Insightful)

to be a troll (807210) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583456)

point taken but...the point really is i don't know if i would have ever picked up one of their album's otherwise and since have bought all of their cd's (legally) and the live DVD's (also legally)... oh yeah, the other point was that it was nice to have a decent selection of music in the third world.

Re:i for one... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583496)

If I were buying music in Russia I would buy from the pirates so that the money stayed in their local economy. I am sure in hell not going to buy a "legal" version so that the money can be sent back to the RIAA. Get real.

That's how things are over there (5, Insightful)

drgonzo59 (747139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583390)

I grew up there and go back to visit once a year or so and that's just how things are over there. The communism has taught people that honesty and hard work doesn't pay, you can just stay home and the state (the rest of the people) will take care of you. After most have realized that, that is when the whole thing imploded in my oppinion. People learned that those who bribe, cheat and lie will always get ahead. Take my parents for example my dad is an engineer that has worked hard all his life and then overnight almost all our savings have turned into nothing and he lost his job. So now when the government comes up with slogans like "Copying Software is Wrong!" people just think "F*ck off, you screwed us, now everybody for themselves." So slogans like that won't work. Even the people who are supposed to enforce it probably don't see it as a problem and would go and buy burnt CDs when they shop for music. But on the other side, as far as music and software companies loosing money, I don't think they would make a whole lot of money if they ask for $600 for Adobe in that part of the world, people just wouldn't buy it, or find something cheaper. That was my 2 cents.


Re:That's how things are over there (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583523)

Maybe your dad shouldn't have put his money in a communist bank? smart people turn their government funnymoney money into real value, such as gold and realestate.

Most of well off people I know where I live are the landlords. A lot of them have the same story: they worked hard for the first few years of their life and then they invested that money into 4 walls and a roof that they rented out. They then bootstrapped themselves into owning more properties.

Of course not everyone can be lazy landlord; you always need some people around who get paid to do real work so they can pay you rent.

Affordable housing? what's that? rent instead. muahahah.

Re:That's how things are over there (1)

rsilvergun (571051) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583549)

After most have realized that, that is when the whole thing imploded in my oppinion.
You don't think the fact that Stalin was a paranoid lunitic, or that they tried to keep up with the wealthiest (in terms of resources) nation on planet earth in an arms race has anything to do with that (note sarcasm).

OK, I'm from the outside looking in and all, but still. It wasn't lazy people wanting to be cared for by the state that killed the USSR. It was a brutal dictatorship under pressure from the USA that did. You seem to have forgotten about all those soviet Gulag work camps. Those people weren't exactly sitting around to get paid (freezing to death's more like it).

No Different In America (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583398)

It's hard to justify the cost of a CD (or DVD, etc) to anyone in any country, if they've done the math and figured out where the $16 to $20 from each CD is going. Break it down and you'll find that about 75% of the points are going to the label in one way or another. Worse, as much goes to pay for advertising and promotion of the CD as goes to all other places (artist, representation, printing and pressing, shipping) *COMBINED*.

I found the best way to deal with this is just to avoid paying. I don't have cable anymore. I ditched it because the terrible programming wasn't worth $110/mo. I also don't buy DVDs or CDs and I don't go to the theater. Few movies are worth $10 per person these days. What, am I going to blow $20 so myself and a date can go watch Eurotrip? Get real.

I've taken the money I would have spent on the MPAA/RIAA/BSA goons and redirected it toward buying USED books. Instead of $30 to buy the latest ridiculous Spielberg rehash (ooh, this time he added three lighting effects in this one scene that weren't there before!) - I can use that $30 to buy half a dozen good reads. I've been working my way through the Top 100 Science Fiction Books of All Time (excluding the ones I'd previously read). Much better value. And when I'm through, I can hand them off to someone else without worrying about the MPAA/RIAA/BSA sending the FBI to break down my door and put me in prison for four years without due process.

Re:No Different In America (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583458)

>>>What, am I going to blow $20 so myself and a date can go watch Eurotrip? Get real.

So you'll just skip the dates thing altogether. Good plan. Another reliable /. reader.

Well, the article doesn't say... (5, Informative)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583408)

but a quick Google for average Russian wage provided : The average monthly wage in 2003 was 5,512 roubles (which amounts to 160 euros at the current exchange rate and about 450 euros when adjusted for purchasing power).

Converted into US bucks - that's roughly 570 dollars a month.

You can't tell me that any attempt by copyright holders is going to 'Stamp out Piracy' with 15 dollar CDs - unless they match the 3.50 'Nice Price'.

Isn't there one person out of all the copyright holders who can wrap their head around that?

I rate this article 4 1/2 'duhs', and rate the clueless morans printing up 'For great justice, make your time Pirate!' posters a +5 Ner.

Re:Well, the article doesn't say... (1)

Frennzy (730093) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583478)

not to pitpick, bit you really shouldn't call anyone a 'moran' until you learn how to spell it. Sorry for that...please continue,

Re:Well, the article doesn't say... (1)

teamhasnoi (554944) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583544)

not to pitpick, bit you really shouldn't call anyone a 'moran' until you learn how to spell it. Sorry for that...please continue,

I know, but this guy doesn't. [about.com]

Not to pitpick, bit you must not have seen the picture before. ;)

Same in America, comrade. (5, Interesting)

Seumas (6865) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583410)

Accidentally posted anon (and want to be able to see replies):

It's hard to justify the cost of a CD (or DVD, etc) to anyone in any country, if they've done the math and figured out where the $16 to $20 from each CD is going. Break it down and you'll find that about 75% of the points are going to the label in one way or another. Worse, as much goes to pay for advertising and promotion of the CD as goes to all other places (artist, representation, printing and pressing, shipping) *COMBINED*.

I found the best way to deal with this is just to avoid paying. I don't have cable anymore. I ditched it because the terrible programming wasn't worth $110/mo. I also don't buy DVDs or CDs and I don't go to the theater. Few movies are worth $10 per person these days. What, am I going to blow $20 so myself and a date can go watch Eurotrip? Get real.

I've taken the money I would have spent on the MPAA/RIAA/BSA goons and redirected it toward buying USED books. Instead of $30 to buy the latest ridiculous Spielberg rehash (ooh, this time he added three lighting effects in this one scene that weren't there before!) - I can use that $30 to buy half a dozen good reads. I've been working my way through the Top 100 Science Fiction Books of All Time (excluding the ones I'd previously read). Much better value. And when I'm through, I can hand them off to someone else without worrying about the MPAA/RIAA/BSA sending the FBI to break down my door and put me in prison for four years without due process.

Fair Assessment of Russia (5, Interesting)

reporter (666905) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583414)

In order to do a fair assessment of Russia, we must compare Russia against another state with a comparable standard of living. Let's bite the bullet and directly compare China and Russa.

The Chinese deliberately steal Western software, videos, and music, make millions of copies of such intellectual property, and then proceed to export the illicit goods into the American market [duke.edu] . The pirated copies of, say, Windows XP compete directly against the real McCoy in the American market. The FBI have arrested numerous Chinese for pirating software, music, and videos.

The piracy rate in Russia [state.gov] is 87%. The rate in China (which includes Taiwan province and Hong Kong) is 92%. The rate in Russia is lower than the rate in China; moreover, the Russians do not export the pirated software into the USA to compete against the original manufacturers of the software.

Clearly, piracy in Russia is a problem but is nowhere near as bad as piracy in China.

Can You Imagine the Heart-Warming Ads? (5, Funny)

dasunt (249686) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583435)

Shot of a thin gaunt man dressed in an old jacket hawking CD's with Cyrillic lettering in the rain. The rooftop of an Orthodox Russian Church can be seen in the background.

Announcer: This is Boris, a hardworking Russian music pirate. Every day he is on the streets, twelve, fourteen, or even fifteen hours, hawking his burned CDs of the latest hit albums from the US. He even has created his own mixes with high-quality jacket art that caters to the Russian market.

Shot of a fat man driving a Ford SUV and eating from a bag of McDonald's food. In the interior of the SUV, an in-dash satellite radio and GPS system can be seen. In the back is an in-car DVD player.

Announcer (cont.): This is John, an American music producer. Unlike Boris, he has a steady job, including health, vacation, and retirement. He only works a measily 8 hour day, and lives in a 3000 sq ft home, with central heat and air. Unlike Boris, who owns no vehicles, John owns a late-model SUV, which he parks in his own private three-stall garage.

Shot of a typical upscale gated community in the US.

Announcer (cont.): If you buy legitimate music, you are throwing your money to rich Americans who already have the good life.

Shot of a Moscow slum.

Announcer (cont.) But if you buy the latest songs from the Russian pirates on the street, your money stays in the Russian economy, benefitting many more people than just the pirate.

Announcer (cont.): Please buy locally.

Re:Can You Imagine the Heart-Warming Ads? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583540)

That is not funny.

Just because your money is going to end up in rich peoples' pockets is no excuse to steal. If that mindset catches on then the poor people have no hope to get paid and one day become that rich person.

In Russia.... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583444)

In Russia pirates copy you!

The boomerang effect (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583445)

In a country where the average monthly salary is about $240, buying the latest album for $15 is a grotesque luxury, let alone spending $600 on Adobe Photoshop or a similar computer program.'

Adobe relocalize their prog unit in asia in order to make more profit on their 600$ soft but the coders are so badly paid that they cannot afford these softs so they copy these...

I guess it's one another evidence that deloc is finally hurting more the home country than it's benefitting.

Same thing in rural parts of China (4, Interesting)

psoriac (81188) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583461)

I just returned to the US from a vacation in China, and in many of the rural areas (near Yunan, Dali, I was in the southern area) 400 RMB a month is enough to eat, rent an apartment, buy clothes, and still afford a few vcds and dvds a month. That's roughly $50 USD. Do you seriously think those people are going to see a $9.99 USD CD and think "oh what a bargain!"? No, they'll grab the 7 RMB copy next to it instead.

Re:Same thing in rural parts of China (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583474)

Almost any rural area is like this, when I went to mexico they gawked at us for throwing away the cores of pineapples. The world outside of America is a very different place.

Arrr! (3, Funny)

Ziviyr (95582) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583483)

let alone spending $600 on Adobe Photoshop or a similar computer program

Really, I'd rather pirate The GIMP than buy it for $600.

A Dream... (3, Interesting)

Brakz0rz (773616) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583524)

I dream of a day when the big labels have been completely plundered and real music is again produced by artists/managers/promoters/executives that aren't becoming insanely rich beyond what they deserve. Britney (insert artist of your choice) has not EARNED her millions. Same for movies. I also hope television dies a slow painful death.

If you watch Survivor (insert reality show of your choice) you are crapping on your own brain.

So, kudos to the Russians from a Canadian who cares.

Leaving for Russia (1)

G3ckoG33k (647276) | more than 9 years ago | (#10583534)

Yup, on Sunday, for five days. I hadn't thought about it before, but, well... Thanks for the tip! :)

Hey Why Not (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10583537)

Let's say I can't aford a car. I need it for work. I can live without music but my living depends on a car. Why is it unacceptable to steal a car that is critical to my supporting myself and my family but okay to steal music which is a luxury? Albums cost money to produce just like a car. Corporate greed is a cop out. In many countries people can't aford food. I have far more sympathy for them stealing food than some one stealing music or software. If they steal Photoshop. Where did the computer come from to run it on? Could they aford that or did they steal that too? Is it okay to steal the computer as well? If they don't have the money for the software there are open source versions everyone is always boasting of that are free. Also groups are giving away music. The real issue is they want it so they take it. It's as simple as that. Anything else is rationalizing. The same rational many teens use for shoplifting. They can't aford it so they take it. Trust me you can live without it. I have to say how would programers feel if they were told no one wants to pay for software so they'll have to work for free?
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