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Slashback: Indymedia, Starfighter, Mozparty

timothy posted about 10 years ago | from the kiki's-on-piedras dept.

Slashback 180

Slashback, below, brings updates and followups to several recent Slashdot stories, including Diebold's (trivial) financial penalty for copyright abuse, reviews of 'The Last Starfighter,' an inquiry into the best response to the recent seizure of Indymedia's servers in the UK, and the upcoming, distributed Mozparty2 to celebrate the 1.0 releases of Firefox and Thunderbird. Read on for the rest.

An apology might be a nice start. Chris writes "The UK government has broken its silence on the Indymedia server raid and is claiming that there 'no UK law enforcement agencies were involved'; see Richard Allan's blog for the whole written answer. This means that the potential for taking legal action against Rackspace in the UK needs to be explored -- were any UK laws (eg the Data Protection Act 1984 or the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act 2000) broken? Are there any UK cyber law experts on Slashdot with any suggestions...?"

Is Google private enough for you? XeRXeS-TCN writes "Following on from the recent concerns reported on Slashdot about the Google Desktop, the CEO of Copernic has warned about user privacy. Google Desktop Search allows users to opt out of sending the company back detailed usage data, but it isn't possible to firewall it completely. Much more ominously, Google's product manager Marissa Mayer said she expected the private queries to generate more hits for google.com. Most people, she believed, would choose to combine personal and web searches resulting in more revenue for Google's ad business. More on this at The Reg."

If this is a dupe, then Murphy was right. Vcullen writes "The Formula that scientists recently proposed to calculate Murphy's Law has recently been turned into an easy to use online Murphy's Law calculator. So now you can work out what the probability of it happening on any given situation!"

Nice shooting, kid. Bravo! Jason Scott writes "Inspired by the Slashdot story about the arrival of 'The Last Starfighter: The Musical' off-Broadway, I drove from Boston to New York City and back in one day to attend a matinee. I have written a review of what I experienced on my weblog. As I say in the review, 'If spoilers do not interest you, if you only want the simplest of directions and want to make the next right move, then heed these words: if you live within driving, walking, bus or train distance of New York City, see this musical. Immediately.'"

And ottffs writes with his own impressions: "I was recently in Manhattan presenting at ACM Multimedia 2004 conference. I was lucky enough to be able to attend the premiere of 'The Last Starfighter: the musical' on Friday night. I have posted a review and some pics to my blog."

There goes the next office party budget. JimMarch(equalccw) writes "After losing a major copyright case in which Diebold was punished for exercising their copyright in a wrongful fashion (copyWRONG?), the other shoe has dropped: the court says Diebold owes the ISPs and webmasters who complained a total of $125,000. "

Anyone care to start one for El Paso? loconet writes "Following the success of Mozilla's 1.0 release parties, where Mozilla supporters from all over the world celebrated the release of Mozilla 1.0, comes Mozparty 2 celebrating the upcoming 1.0 release of Mozilla Firefox and Mozilla Thunderbird. According to the Mozparty site, currently there are 1007 ppl partying in 109 parties from which the biggest party is in Mexico."

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FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593801)

n+1th post, i win
-MikeT

Re:FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593817)

woot, i actually did it! i FPd, bitches
-MikeT

Re:FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593929)

I think you were trying to say:

OMG

n=0

w00t.

just trying to help...

It's official (-1, Flamebait)

Decapitees For Bush (824317) | about 10 years ago | (#10593802)

The Union Of Decapitated Americans endores George W. Bush for President.

Re:It's official (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594415)

The Decapitors of American Infidels have endorsed Kerry/Edwards.........seems only fair.
Listen to the soundtrack on their videos thats not Allah Akbar they are chanting when they saw off living heads its Kerry!...Edwards...Kerry...Edwards!

Post Second (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593803)

Ask questions later.

Google (4, Informative)

erick99 (743982) | about 10 years ago | (#10593808)

The Google privacy issues are not issues if people use it on their home machine with a single user accessing the machine as Google instructs. The software was never intended to be deployed in a business or other multi-user environment.

Re:Google (4, Insightful)

BenjyD (316700) | about 10 years ago | (#10593892)

Clearly nobody reads the articles, not even the mods. From TFA:

"users should know that the giant ad broker intends to mix public and private queries in the future,"

"Google Desktop Search allows users to opt out of sending the company back detailed usage data, but it isn't possible to firewall it completely"

"Eric Schmidt said the company's goal was to create a "Google that knows you""

Admittedly, the main source for the article is the CEO of a competitor to Google. But this isn't the multi-user issue.

Re:Google (4, Insightful)

erick99 (743982) | about 10 years ago | (#10593911)

Yes, a competitor who made unsubstantiated statements that do not reflect well on Google. It's a cheap shot and tells me they are afraid of Google and not confident of their own stable. But, hell, it worked. It fooled you.

Re:Google (2, Informative)

BenjyD (316700) | about 10 years ago | (#10593980)

I didn't say anywhere that I believed it. I think that the Google Desktop Search privacy policy specifically states that it sends no data back to google, so they'd be directly lying if some of his statements are true. I also made the dubious source of the statements clear.

I read the article before posting - at the very least, I am discussing the correct issue, rather than knee-jerk posting a response without bothering to check.

People read the article (2, Informative)

Chuck Chunder (21021) | about 10 years ago | (#10594211)

And rightly determined that it was almost entirely a bunch of FUD puked up by some disingenuous wanker more interested in pushing their own barrow than 'informing' users.

Re:Google (2, Insightful)

Flexagon (740643) | about 10 years ago | (#10594247)

The software was never intended to be deployed in a business or other multi-user environment.

That rules out many (most?) home systems, shared by all family members. In fact, it rules out so many systems that it's hard to imagine this not getting addressed before the beta ends.

Don't start planning your mozparties yet. (2, Insightful)

zerdood (824300) | about 10 years ago | (#10593809)

Firefox is notoriously bad at coming out on the days they say it will. November 6th? Not gonna happen.

Re:Don't start planning your mozparties yet. (4, Informative)

bizpile (758055) | about 10 years ago | (#10593858)

Firefox is notoriously bad at coming out on the days they say it will. November 6th? Not gonna happen.

Most of the parties aren't being planned on the day of the release anyway, seeing as how it is (I believe) on the 11th which is a Thursday.
From the site:
*Hint* Suggested date for your parties is: Friday, November 19 - Sunday, November 21

Re:Don't start planning your mozparties yet. (3, Informative)

zerdood (824300) | about 10 years ago | (#10593886)

AFAIK the (supposed) release date is Nov. 6th. Somewhat related: the 1.0RC1 was supposed to come out 3 days ago and still hasn't.

Re:Don't start planning your mozparties yet. (5, Insightful)

Conspiracy_Of_Doves (236787) | about 10 years ago | (#10594104)

That is probably because, unlike SOME Redmond-based monopolies whose names I won't mention, they try to actually get it RIGHT before they release it. Good software is preferable to timely software any day.

Re:Don't start planning your mozparties yet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594500)

Of course, certain unnamed Redmond-based monopolies have a tendency to do both - release half-assed software, and do it behind schedule. They just want to make everybody happy!

Re:Don't start planning your mozparties yet. (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594675)

To their defense, they released Windows 95 late, but since they didn't expect that "Internet" thing to take off, they didn't consider the imapct of any potential remote vulnerabilities.

Oops.

This would be cause for a party WHY?!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594268)

I'll save MY partying for when they come up with a browser that words decently on a Mac... and I don't mean Safari clones, either, because Safari is the WORST!!

Omni
http://omniverse.blogspot.com/ [blogspot.com]

Re:This would be cause for a party WHY?!! (2, Funny)

Scud (1607) | about 10 years ago | (#10594602)

Not that you get invited to any in the first place...

Diebold (4, Funny)

mind21_98 (18647) | about 10 years ago | (#10593813)

Now if only Diebold would be punished for their crappy voting systems, we'd be in nirvana. :)

I disagree... (3, Insightful)

ArbitraryConstant (763964) | about 10 years ago | (#10593894)

If the Diebold machines were perfectly accurate, they'd still only be recording the votes of idiots.

Re:I disagree... (3, Insightful)

Atrax (249401) | about 10 years ago | (#10594688)

But at least they'd be correctly recording the votes of idiots. Democracy makes no special case for stupidity.

brewssa (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593821)

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17-10 half-life2_trailer-wmv
s

Mozparty 2.0 (3, Informative)

bizpile (758055) | about 10 years ago | (#10593832)

Sign up for the Mozparty in Gainesville, Florida here [openforce.at] .

Anyone else Read this as (3, Funny)

pegasustonans (589396) | about 10 years ago | (#10593845)

'The Last Starfighter,' an inquiry into the best response to the recent seizure of Indymedia's servers in the UK

Watch Alex as he blasts the evil goons from the DMCA/IP/Nasty Galactic Cluster Alliance! or something like that...

Re:Anyone else Read this as (1)

evilviper (135110) | about 10 years ago | (#10594598)

NO!
Nobody read it that way... Not even you.

This joke was old since the day it was first concieved. Let it die. Don't mod it up, and metamod these stupid moderators into the ground.

Thank you.

Re:Anyone else Read this as (1)

pegasustonans (589396) | about 10 years ago | (#10594700)

This joke was old since the day it was first concieved. Let it die. Don't mod it up, and metamod these stupid moderators into the ground.

You know, just because you've had a bad day...

On the other hand, why don't you direct some of that aggression against more deserving people, like gorilla poachers in the jungles of Africa for example.

Re:Anyone else Read this as (1)

evilviper (135110) | about 10 years ago | (#10594990)

You know, just because you've had a bad day...

No, not a bad day... I've been saying the same thing in response to every one of these stupid jokes for a while now.

On the other hand, why don't you direct some of that aggression against more deserving people, like gorilla poachers in the jungles of Africa for example.

Good one. Because the /. moderation system is irritating, I should blame poachers. No, I think not. Aggression is, and should rightfully be, directed at the source.

Re:Anyone else Read this as (1)

Guppy06 (410832) | about 10 years ago | (#10594928)

Greetings starfighter! You have been recruited by Slashdot to defend the Electronic Frontier against Gates and the Corporate Armada!

"Diebold's (trivial) financial penalty " (5, Funny)

FauxReal (653820) | about 10 years ago | (#10593857)

Come on, give the guys a break, they were too busy protecting the sanctity of the political process. Besides, it's not like they were downloading music!

Copyright imbalance (2, Insightful)

KjetilK (186133) | about 10 years ago | (#10594196)

Heh, well, I think your post illustrates how bad the imbalance with copyright law has become. Copyright law is supposed to be a balance between the public's right to freely participate in the cultural and scientific progresses of society, and the rights of the creators to be awarded for their contribution to said progress.

Nowadays, if you a little too freely participate in said culture, you're a pirate, one who can be imprisoned, bankrupted and hung out to dry in public. If you on the other hand deny the public the most basic right to participate in democratic discourse and attempt to destroy democracy, well, you'll be fined with pocket change...

When this latter behaviour is made criminal, then we can start talking about criminalising freeloading. Not before.

Re:Copyright imbalance (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | about 10 years ago | (#10595156)

FauxReal's comment was obviously (to me, anyway) a joke. You're right, but try to see clues to sarcasm like "at least they weren't downloading music" on Slashdot.

Re:"Diebold's (trivial) financial penalty " (1)

ImaLamer (260199) | about 10 years ago | (#10594441)

Besides, it's not like they were downloading music!

Or were they? [mintruth.com]

Re:An even more trivial penalty (2, Informative)

Concerned Onlooker (473481) | about 10 years ago | (#10595107)

Yes, you've been bad, now here's your fine. <wink, wink, nudge, nudge>

Kind of like when GM, Firestone and Standard Oil were found guilty of criminal conspiracy when they systematically dismantled the electric public transportation with bus lines. "The court imposed a sanction of $5,000 on GM. In addition, the jury convicted H.C. Grossman, who was then treasurer of General Motors. Grossman had played a key role in the motorization campaigns and had served as a director of PCL when that company undertook the dismantlement of the $100 million Pacific Electric system. The court fined Grossman the magnanimous sum of $1.211."

links:
American Ground Transport [66.102.7.104]
The Street Car Conspiracy [lovearth.net]

want beer? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593915)

sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf sdfgsdfgdafgotrf4689rft4gydus dsfsd fsdfsd fsdfsd fsd fsd fsdf df wger ytr ygtr e 5 6 4576 456 3534 re g dfg dfg fgsr gsrgfsdjkvhkjh jjkh h h jgh kjh kjhkjh kjh jkghk jghjk hjkh jkhkj hjkh kjh khjk hkj hkjgh jkgh jkgh yigtyu fufy uyufu yfuy f[p;iouh ilguyfguyf uyfyu fyu uyf yuf

Re:want beer? (-1, Offtopic)

zerdood (824300) | about 10 years ago | (#10593986)

I am amazed that this hasn't yet been modded down. Mod parent down!

Obviously you've had one too many (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594004)

Don't drink and type. And definitely don't let your cat roam across your keyboard either. Have fun getting all that fur and beer out of your keyboard!

How long before... (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593924)

... a virus or worm could exploit this google privacy issue?

Re:How long before... (2, Informative)

cduffy (652) | about 10 years ago | (#10593967)

You mean the ability to grab information people thought was gone off of places it exists on the hard drive?

They already can; they have been able to from before the Google local search engine existed; and they'll continue to be able to after it's gone until folks actually take good care of OS-level security and permissions.

If you think the Starfighter musical sounds good.. (2, Funny)

FauxReal (653820) | about 10 years ago | (#10593937)

You'll also wanna check out the Battlestar Galactica homage titled The Cylon King [sluggy.com] .

Foo (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10593945)

Sorry...poor mod above, and I want to revert that...so here goes.

Its all about the fear factor (5, Insightful)

t_allardyce (48447) | about 10 years ago | (#10593950)

The Indymedia thing to me sounds like a case of an ISP doing everything it can not to get into trouble. Its been shown time after time and even tested, ISPs will remove/giveup anything if they told. Even random people on Hotmail accounts have been able to order that information be taken down because it violates copyrights even though the copyright is fully explained on the actual page. We've come to a time when ISPs have no interest in sticking up for their clients, if someone can sue Rackspace then maybe it will send a message that ISPs have 2 sides to respect OR perhaps the law could just be changed to take all legal responsibility off their hands?

Re:Its all about the fear factor (4, Interesting)

dbIII (701233) | about 10 years ago | (#10593991)

We've come to a time when ISPs have no interest in sticking up for their clients
If they do so it is entirely possible that they will be shutdown by some bloodyminded official. Bruce Sterling's non-fiction "The Hacker Crackdown" has some good examples of machines that were seized on very flimsy pretexts and not returned for months or well over a year - and that was over ten years ago before DVDs were considered worth protecting with a military reponse (Norway). Very few ISPs have the resources to rebuild an entire facility from scratch - it's not just the hardware, all available backups are seized as well.

I'm sure the words "National Security" would have been invoked in this case. It is not entirely impossible for people to be dragged away and locked in a cage in Cuba for two years without even being charged with a crime - so any ISP is likely to roll over as soon as some official looking types with US accents turn up and start talking about security.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (4, Interesting)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | about 10 years ago | (#10593997)

The Indymedia thing to me sounds like a case of an ISP doing everything it can not to get into trouble. Its been shown time after time and even tested, ISPs will remove/giveup anything if they told.

That basically seems to be what it boils down to.

Despite the claims that have been made on IndyMedia about IndyMedia (impartial observers, wot?), it appears that the decision to pull the plug the UK-hosted IndyMedia machines was unilaterally made by RackSpace, the hosting company.

Could RackSpace, a company that does business in both the US and the UK, have had its arm twisted by US law enforcement to pull the plug? Possible, but unlikely -- for one thing, we would have seen the fuzz go after IndyMedia resources located in the US as well. Claiming that US law enforcement was indeed involved in this action in the absence of any proof to that effect is speculation and irresponsible reporting.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (5, Informative)

Yeb (7194) | about 10 years ago | (#10594083)

Rackspace made the following press release:
In the present matter regarding Indymedia, Rackspace Managed Hosting, a U.S. based company with offices in London, is acting in compliance with a court order pursuant to a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT), which establishes procedures for countries to assist each other in investigations such as international terrorism, kidnapping and money laundering. Rackspace responded to a Commissioner's subpoena, duly issued under Title 28, United States Code, Section 1782 in an investigation that did not arise in the United States. Rackspace is acting as a good corporate citizen and is cooperating with international law enforcement authorities. The court prohibits Rackspace from commenting further on this matter.

Do you think Rackspace is making this up? The US was clearly involved, unless this is a total fabrication of Rackspace's, which I doubt.

Why would Rackspace want to unilaterally pull the plug, anyway?

-Jeff

Re:Its all about the fear factor (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594112)

Despite the claims that have been made on IndyMedia about IndyMedia (impartial observers, wot?), it appears that the decision to pull the plug the UK-hosted IndyMedia machines was unilaterally made by RackSpace, the hosting company.

Ummmm...

The FBI issued a subpoena, while Swiss and Italian prosecutors have acknowledged interest in getting their hands on the Indymedia servers hosting certain images and messages.

All the Home Office has said is that no UK law enforcement agencies were involved. Clearly, one law enforcement agency from somewhere was involved, because someone took the servers from Rackspace and returned them days later. The exact details of the seizure are being kept rather quiet, and I wonder what other sites would have gone offline had Rackspace refused to comply with the subpoena and seizure.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (0)

sg_oneill (159032) | about 10 years ago | (#10594231)

Claiming that US law enforcement was indeed involved in this action in the absence of any proof to that effect is speculation and irresponsible reporting.


Other than the fact that it has been pretty much confirmed it was the FBI who did the raid. It might be 'iresponsible', but that dont stop it being true. I dont think rackspace are lying about this.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (1)

topham (32406) | about 10 years ago | (#10594863)

The question is, was the raid performed by the FBI, for the FBI, or was the FBI invited in for their expertise?

Often experts from various law enforcement agencies are invited to participate in foreign countries.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (1)

sg_oneill (159032) | about 10 years ago | (#10595038)

Well it certainly gets interesting. At the moment the home office in the UK is denying its involvement , meaning the bloody fools might of done the raid themselves.

Which of course is utterly illegal since the FBI has no jurastiction there.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594281)

" it appears that the decision to pull the plug the UK-hosted IndyMedia machines was unilaterally made by RackSpace, the hosting company. Possible, but unlikely -- for one thing, we would have seen the fuzz go after IndyMedia resources located in the US as well. Claiming that US law enforcement was indeed involved in this action in the absence of any proof to that effect is speculation and irresponsible reporting."

So Rackspace decided to just take down the systems for the heck of it ? Please! How about abit of common sense folks....oh wait..some of us have no sense, i'm such an insensitive clod!

Re:Its all about the fear factor (1, Insightful)

aquabat (724032) | about 10 years ago | (#10594472)

From the Rackspace [rackspace.com] website:

Managed Hosting
Backed by Our Award-Winning Fanatical Support(TM).

Featuring Our Exclusive:
- Zero-Downtime Network(TM) with a Money-Back Guarantee
- 1 Hour Hardware Replacement with a Money-Back Guarantee
- Instant Emergency Response

The irony of this is almost too rich to believe. Did these guys actually just commit corporate suicide in front of the entire internet?

Re:Its all about the fear factor (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594388)

Its been shown time after time and even tested, ISPs will remove/giveup anything if they told.
There is one important exception. When the CRIA (equals Canadian RIAA) sued Canadian ISPs to turn over subscribers' info, every one of the ISPs (except Videotron: boo) told them to go fuck themselves, and the courts agreed with that suggestion [canlii.org] .

If nothing else, it shows that when ISPs do take a stand, good things happen. Because of that court decision, the CRIA now has nothing to do but go fuck itself.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (4, Insightful)

YOU LIKEWISE FAIL IT (651184) | about 10 years ago | (#10594402)

The Indymedia thing to me sounds like a case of an ISP doing everything it can not to get into trouble. Its been shown time after time and even tested, ISPs will remove/giveup anything if they told.

Hah! ISP's? Most people react this way. While many slashdotters would be familiar with Milgrams Experiment [wikipedia.org] , I'm not sure how many realise what for me is the real insight here - not only will people submit before authority, they will submit before an unsubstantiated image or impression of authority. Rarely do people ask to see the papers, authorisations or justifications of those who seem to know what they're doing ( and I've experienced this effect first hand in the healthcare industry ).

Ok, rant over. But I think you'll be surprised how quickly the average person will be cowed by an authority figure ( lawyer, policeman, person in an expensive suit ) regardless of whether or not their claims have merit. The change that has to be made is not just for ISP's, but for all citizens.

YLFI

Re:Its all about the fear factor (-1, Flamebait)

Erik Hollensbe (808) | about 10 years ago | (#10594493)

Frankly, I'm enjoying it if only because IndyMedia just got a first-hand case of what liberally running their mouth can get you if you don't cover your ass.

What's even more funny is the fact that nothing was shoved in their face (at least publically) to make them shut up about it, so they're doomed to do it again.

IM has a right to express their viewpoint and I'm not suggesting that discontinue, but there are always consequences of exercising "the right to free speech", whether they be legal of nature or not, and maybe, just maybe, IM just got a wake up call.

That and I'm sick of them labelling the biased ravings of some guy that is quick to criticize the system but has no experience in it as journalism.

If you question my quickness, a former acquintance that I know either writes for or knows a heck of a lot of IM "journalists" because he shoves their viewpoint in my face every time a topic comes up, as if they were the prophet of society as a whole. I hear about when GWB misses the toilet after getting up at 3AM to take a leak, complete with "Humor". (hint: watermelon and fried chicken jokes are funny to racists, doesn't mean they're funny to everyone else)

Fox is bad, but at least they have some modicum of accountability, in the form of the stock market. IM has none other than the laws regarding personal attacks in the countries they post in, and adherence to that is dubious at best.

Blanket statement disclaimer: yes, I'm sure some IM articles have merit, but in my experience those that do are in short doses in the article itself, which speaks as a whole of the service. I also want to note that it's the bias I have the problem with, not the concept.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | about 10 years ago | (#10595188)

What kind of fascist is applauding this total breach of national sovereignty, not to mention universal respect for freedom of the press, by saying "they asked for it by being vulnerable"? If I punch you in the mouth, and you can't stop me, did you deserve it? Is it OK? Would you like another?

Re:Its all about the fear factor (3, Insightful)

gcaseye6677 (694805) | about 10 years ago | (#10594770)

An ISP's takedown policy is crafted purely as a business decision. Will the company make more money by sticking up for the legal rights of their customers, or will they make more by immediately taking down anything that anyone doesn't like. You could make a case for either side, but I'm guessing that most ISPs have chosen the side of avoiding all controversy and taking down anything in question. Sure, their customers will take their business elsewhere, but someone will come along to replace them. The hosting business has pretty slim profit margins, so it's unlikely that most ISPs will be willing to spend money on lawyers if they don't absolutely have to.

The nice thing is, a website can be hosted anywhere in the world, so it's not like you can't find another host if your site is taken down on dubious grounds. For that matter, even if your site is blatantly illegal, somebody somewhere will host it for the right price.

Re:Its all about the fear factor (2, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | about 10 years ago | (#10595175)

No, it's worse than that [theregister.co.uk] . A US court sent its order out of its jurisdiction to a Bologna, Italy court with which it has a mutual "MLAT" agreement. Bologna sent the order out of its jurisdiction along a similar agreement with the UK. So Rackspace complied, as it was probably legally obligated to do. They probably folded too quickly, but the system of going through a couple of backdoors to enforce a US court order seems not only to have worked, but not to have even raised an eyebrow at the UK officials who do have jurisdiction. This is the one world government people have talked about for years: collusions between international courts that let foreign governments do the dirty work of local governments, while all those governments whine about the UN, and politicians get elected defending citizens from a UN that is powerless over them.

Gunstar (5, Insightful)

centauri (217890) | about 10 years ago | (#10593978)

I don't know what they called it in the stage show, but in the movie the Starfighter is not the name of the ship. The ship is called a Gunstar. The being who fires the weapon systems of a Gunstar is called a Starfighter.

(And the pilot of a Gunstar is called a Starnavigator)

Re:Gunstar (3, Funny)

m_xiphias (642051) | about 10 years ago | (#10594031)

They are so going to brand you an ubergeek now.

Re:Gunstar (1)

bob beta (778094) | about 10 years ago | (#10594292)

Is the ship's office manager called the Starofficer? (does he work in his spare time on Oo.org?)

Murphy's Law Calculator (5, Informative)

interactive_civilian (205158) | about 10 years ago | (#10593981)

ummm...they seem to have forgotten a very important side effect of probabilities and Murphy's law (at least that I have noticed in my experiences, and Murphy and I have become rather close):

The more improbable that something will go wrong, the greater the chance that it will go wrong immediately and in a big way.

I mean, come on, don't these people read the Guide? The Starship Titanic immediately underwent a massive existence failure because some fool tried to use an improbability field and make it infinitely improbable that something would go wrong with the ship.

So, as a PSA to all: Do NOT trust low numbers from the Murphy's Law calculator. If you get a low score, then duck and cover.

Re:Murphy's Law Calculator (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594138)

The Starship Titanic immediately underwent a massive existence failure because some fool tried to use an improbability field and make it infinitely improbable that something would go wrong with the ship.

I hope I'm not alone when I say this, but... what the hell?

tHHGttG (2, Informative)

interactive_civilian (205158) | about 10 years ago | (#10594224)

blockquoth the AC:
The Starship Titanic immediately underwent a massive existence failure because some fool tried to use an improbability field and make it infinitely improbable that something would go wrong with the ship.

I hope I'm not alone when I say this, but... what the hell?

The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams holds all of the answers you need.

On a site like this, I doubt you are completely alone, but I would imagine the majority of /. has read this book.

Re:tHHGttG (1)

corsec67 (627446) | about 10 years ago | (#10594546)

And that is why he can quote it without referencing it: everyone knows it.

Re:Murphy's Law Calculator (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594216)

The more improbable that something will go wrong, the greater the chance that it will go wrong immediately and in a big way.

Hi. I would like to bet $100 with you on the outcome of 100 coin tosses. That they all give tail is so improbable that according to your law, it's almost a certainty. I will pay $100 if this happens. You pay me $100 if there's at least one head.

You don't get it... (1)

interactive_civilian (205158) | about 10 years ago | (#10594307)

This is a problem in raw probability. Murphy's Law doesn't deal with that. Murphy's law deals with taking plans you have made and royally screwing them up. Making a bet is not the same as making a plan.

However, in this situation, I can almost guarantee that the first flip would be heads because Murphy is better friends with me than with you, so :-p

wait...that isn't a good thing. :-(

Aside: I don't understand why my original post is being modded "Informative", and why people are taking it seriously. It was a (bad) joke...smile or something. ;-)

Aim High (1)

ProfDark (776188) | about 10 years ago | (#10594320)

My only answer to Murphy's Law:
The only way to beat Murphy's Law is with Murphy's Law - ProfDark.

You can never underestimate Dumb Luck.

The highier the likelihood of Murphy's showing up the highier the chance of two of them showing up and screwing each other over. Ignorance just loves company.

How do you think people rise to their level of incompentency?

Have you ever talked to your boss before?

Re:Aim High (3, Funny)

aaza (635147) | about 10 years ago | (#10594544)

No, no, no.

Here you run into the problem of the "Unapplicable Law" (It does have someone's name to it, I just can't remember whose, and I've always heard it called that).

The Unapplicable Law quite clearly states:
Washing your car to make it rain does not work.

Washing your car makes it rain. If you want it to rain (and it looks like it might), you think to yourself "Washing your car makes it rain. I want rain, I think I'll wash my car." The problem with this is the Law knows you think this, and the clouds disperse shortly after the car has been washed.

The worst part about this is when you don't want it to rain. You think to yourself "Washing your car makes it rain. Last time I wanted it to rain, and washed my car, it didn't. If I wash my car now, it wont rain." The problem here is these Laws still know your mind. You don't want rain, therefore if you wash your car, it will rain.

In short: You cannot invoke these types of Laws, they will work against you every time.

And don't forget... (1)

BillX (307153) | about 10 years ago | (#10594496)

Shit happens. But it is seldom content to happen independently of other shit happening...

Re:Murphy's Law Calculator (1)

Bombcar (16057) | about 10 years ago | (#10594568)

The only way it could work is if it was a million to one chance?

Why?

Because everyone knows that million to one chances come about nine times out of ten!

Oh my God, Google stands to GAIN something???? (5, Funny)

aardvarko (185108) | about 10 years ago | (#10593982)

Much more ominously, Google's product manager Marissa Mayer said she expected the private queries to generate more hits for google.com. Most people, she believed, would choose to combine personal and web searches resulting in more revenue for Google's ad business.

MOTHER OF FUCK! No! That's just wrong.

Murphy's Law proves a few things. (2, Interesting)

Dark Lord Seth (584963) | about 10 years ago | (#10593994)

3 out of 5 things regarding the equasion for Murphy's Law are easily manipulated. Put the right man ( skilled ) with the right experience ( frequency ) on the right job with plenty of time. ( urgency )

Complexity can also be influenced up to a certain level; A large complex task can be broken down into numerous less complex elements. So basically, Murphy's law proves that while heeding common sense, people are less likely to screw up. Well done!

Re:Murphy's Law proves a few things. (1)

Tackhead (54550) | about 10 years ago | (#10594114)

> 3 out of 5 things regarding the equasion for Murphy's Law are easily manipulated. Put the right man ( skilled ) with the right experience ( frequency ) on the right job with plenty of time. ( urgency )

And no matter how urgent your need to try the calculator might be, the probability that the ever-lovin' fuck will have been slashdotted out of it by the time you get there, is equal to one.

Re:Murphy's Law proves a few things. (1)

sahonen (680948) | about 10 years ago | (#10594712)

Frequency is actually how often you do the task that is likely to go wrong, not how many times you have done it in the past. If you do something more often, it's more likely to go wrong.

Re:Murphy's Law proves a few things. (1)

Zangief (461457) | about 10 years ago | (#10594893)

I guess the guys who came up with the site (or the equation), played way too much tabletops RPGs.

They have 5 bars. Urgency, Importancy, Complexity (disadvantages), and my skill and the frequency of doing the task susceptible of Murphy (advanteges).

If I put the first 3 bars, at maximum, and the last 2 at minimum (A freaking task, in which the world existance rest, and which I never have done before), the chance of me doing it is 5%.

If I put the 3 first bars, at minimum, and the last 2 at maximum (A simple task, which is trivial, and which I'm paid to do it, every day of my life), my chance of screwing up is 94%.

This means, that there is always 5% chance of success, and 5% of failure. Just like a d20.

Mozilla party at the south pole! (4, Informative)

ScottMacVicar (751480) | about 10 years ago | (#10594010)

South Pole [openforce.at]
It looks like there is a party on all 7 continents.

Re:Mozilla party at the south pole! (2, Funny)

ashitaka (27544) | about 10 years ago | (#10594122)

Great directions:

"go South until it turns North. Look around - there's a big dome. Go inside. Enter the first building on your right and go upstairs. Party!"

Best. (1)

zogger (617870) | about 10 years ago | (#10594148)

Directions.Evah!

party down dudes!

where's the live WEBCAM?

Disturbing guest list... (1)

istewart (463887) | about 10 years ago | (#10594561)

theancientones@kadath.com

At least we know that the Elder Gods (some of them anyway) favor open source.

I fear this does not bode well for Microsoft.

Re:Disturbing guest list... (1)

Scud (1607) | about 10 years ago | (#10594628)

I fear this does not bode well for Microsoft.

Especially if they require a human sacrifice.

Aw yeah for ppl. (4, Funny)

The Pi-Guy (529892) | about 10 years ago | (#10594025)

According to the Mozparty site, currently there are 1007
ppl partying in 109 parties from which the biggest party is in Mexico.


Ah, I'd love to welcome you to Slashdot, but we don't take kindly to AOL users here. Please turn in your geek badge at the door - a man named Roland will be collecting them.

Re:Aw yeah for ppl. (1)

YetAnotherName (168064) | about 10 years ago | (#10594217)

Roland Piquepaille, perchance?

Don't disrespect AOL users (1)

tepples (727027) | about 10 years ago | (#10594373)

Anybody who watched The Lord of the Rings films is an AOL user, as the films were published by Time Warner, whose stock symbol was once AOL.

Re:Aw yeah for ppl. (1)

Dark Lord Seth (584963) | about 10 years ago | (#10594599)

... a man named Roland will be collecting them

I saw the guy selling the Geek Badges to clueless Forbes 500 CEOs after he put on a few "promotional" stickers on them.

I think the CEO of Haliburton is trying to play frisbee with a badge... I don't know, don't DARE to find out.

El Paso? eww. (Yes, it's OT) (1, Offtopic)

Mike Markley (9536) | about 10 years ago | (#10594035)

Grew up there, didn't think there even was a damn tech community there. To put things into perspective, I thought Cleveland was nice after a decade in El Paso.

Diebold Demonstration Video (5, Funny)

PollGuy (707987) | about 10 years ago | (#10594054)

I came across this Diebold training video [boomchicago.nl] . Check it out.

More on Indymedia (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594070)

There are some good questions on Spy Blog [spy.org.uk] :

The questions about whether or not Rackspace's UK subsidiary have acted illegally under United Kingdom law, by intercepting "electronic communications" (including emails), disrupting an electronic communications system, export of personal data outside of the European Union to the USA without permission, breach of copyright etc. still need to be answered.

Without the protection of a properly authorised UK law enforcement warrant, which was obviously not obtained in this case, Rackspace UK could be sued for breach of confidentiality by the >Indymedia systems administrators [blagblagblag.org] with whom they have a legal contract.

The contract was with Rackspace UK and Rackspace are a UK limited company... you can look this up with Companies House [companies-house.co.uk] (UK office hours, they don't leave their mainframe connected to the net when they are not in the office!)... so there must be potential for breach of contract action(s) here...

Check term 10 of Rackspace UK's Master Service Agreement [rackspace.co.uk] :

"10 Law and Disputes
10.1 This Agreement shall be governed by English law.

I rang Rackspace in the UK today, their Linux managed servers sales section, I asked them if they would host a box for me in the UK and if it could be exempt from UK laws... I didn't get very far... I asked to speak to her boss but she said they were both out... she said only the US company could speak about this matter...

For more background on this see Jebba's blog [blagblagblag.org] and also please sign the Indymedia Solidarity Statment! [indymedia.org.uk]

PS Isn't it time for a Indymedia topic with a nice (((i))) logo... :-)

chrisc at indymedia.org

Diebold... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594299)

Ah, if only we could somehow get Diebold to illegally download a CD. That should up the penalty to around 2 billion dollars ("just one CD, but it was ripped in a really fast computer").

I mean c'mon, abusing copyright law in an attempt to stifle discussion and discovery about America's most sacred process of government, that's one thing.

But when you download Nelly, the justice system PUTS THE SMACK DOWN ON YOU!

Visit America: Where Our Priorities Are Just A Little Fucked Up(tm)

Re:Diebold... (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594491)

America's most sacred process of government
Would that be bombing or blowjobs?

Murphie's Law Calculator (1)

Alien54 (180860) | about 10 years ago | (#10594310)

As seen on the Page

Mathematicians have now come up with a rule for predicting the law of "anything that can go wrong, will go wrong". They say the formula allows people to calculate the chances of Murphy's law (or Sod's law as it is also know) - and to even try and beat the bad luck.

The person is asked to rate the following factors on a 1 - 10 scale for the situation to be analysed

Urgency
Importance
Complexity
Frequency of doing this task
How skilled I am at this task

which are then mangled together through the online calculator. One presumes that an end result of ten is equal to a 100% chance of Murphie's Law coming into play.

Strangely enough, it is possible to get a score higher than 10 on the calculator.

The best and most extreme example of this is when all factors are rated as ten (Urgency, Importance, etc) except for the skill level, which is rated as 1. In this case, the end result is 40, which I presume to either indicate a 400% chance of Murphie's Law Striking, or a 100% chance that Murphie's Law will strike 4 times.

Applying this to modern problems, such as the typical county worker trying to manage an electronic voting machine system, is left as an exercise for the reader.

More Hits? Not likely... (2, Interesting)

shaneh0 (624603) | about 10 years ago | (#10594358)

"she expected the private queries to generate more hits for google.com."

Google is a very mature brand in their market. Although I can't speak to it's veracity I read in Business 2.0 that Google has 96% awareness among (?domestic?) internet users.

While I think the press may slightly increase brand awareness among the non-internet using public, I really doubt they'll see more hits. As if people will read the story and rush to go online to see what 'this google thing' is all about.

Google has reached this point without any consumer facing advertising. I doubt a few dozen stories over a few weeks will actually increase their traffic in a statistically significant way.

Besides, this has a short shelf life. When was the last time you read about the GMail controversy (that is, until Desktop Search made it relevent again)

The Last Starfighter Review should read... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594582)

Original Text:
When I heard that The last Starfighter was making the leap from the screen to the stage I wondered how they would recreate the vehicles, space battles and alien costumes.

Corrected Text:
When I heard that The last Starfighter was making the leap from the screen to the stage I wondered how they would make it more ghey.

MozParty2 (3, Interesting)

killermookie (708026) | about 10 years ago | (#10594694)


Did anyone else cringe when they went to sign up for a Mozilla Firefox party only to stop and realize that the site is basically one giant spam harvesting board [openforce.at] ??

--Matt

Re:MozParty2 (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594768)

Note: All @'s in email addresses are images!

Re:MozParty2 (1)

piranha(jpl) (229201) | about 10 years ago | (#10595129)

Surely this countermeasure will foil those dim-witted spammers!

Spyware Install? (2, Interesting)

Goo.cc (687626) | about 10 years ago | (#10594905)

If I was Indymedia, I would look very carefully at the server before using it again. For all they know, monitoring software or a trojan could have been installed.

Google not collecting data (2, Informative)

topham (32406) | about 10 years ago | (#10594914)


Googles search option LOCALLY combines LOCAL data with web search results. It is a feature you can turn off if you wish. At no point does it submit the resulting data to Google.

Google's (web) search intercepts the query and submits it to the web, and to the local search function, when results fromthe web are returned the results from the local search are merged (ON YOUR MACHINE).

How is this a privacy problem?

Google (0)

Anonymous Coward | about 10 years ago | (#10594917)

If you are paranoid about privacy then lock yourself in a box, or at the very least don't use free optional software that you have a problem with. Finally for the love of all that is good, quit wine'n about something that isn't forced upon you. People who use the software either aren't paranoid that google will invade their home, or they are too dumb, and oblivious, in which case they should be removed from the gene pool anyway.

Long tentacles of Ashcroft (2, Informative)

Doc Ruby (173196) | about 10 years ago | (#10595140)

The Indymedia story [theregister.co.uk] now appears to amount to the US Department of Justice filing a "court order" out of US jurisdiction with a Bologna court under a MLAT, which Bologna passed along in its European legal mutuality with London. So Ashcroft could shut down Indymedia across two outside jurisdictions as readily as he could have in Missouri. Everyone in Europe who wants Bush out of their backyards better start emailing and calling everyone they know in the US, talking some sense into us and getting us to vote for Kerry. If Bush can do this during his last reelection vulnerability, his second term will see every "undesirable" in some Guantanamo gulag.
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