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Gizmodo Declares Blu-Ray Winner

michael posted more than 9 years ago | from the counting-your-chickens dept.

Media 242

13.7BillionYears writes "Gizmodo has a special feature covering the many details of the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD battle based on the technical, financial, and commercial merits of the two contenders. They conclude that Blu-Ray is the clear winner on all three fronts. Hopefully the movie industry and electronics manufacturers will see the same logic and avert a format war."

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Dial back the bias a little bit (5, Insightful)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601457)

Gizmodo probably has it right, with respect to Blu-Ray, but their article is so incredibly biased that it is difficult to lend it any credibility. It's not an objective article at all. They follow a high-school writing class "compare and contrast" format. However, for each feature that they discuss, they trash it for HD-DVD and then argue valiantly and gushingly for Blu-Ray. I would rather read an article written by a dispassionate science writer. They should stick to regurgitating press releases rather than trying to take on serious analysis. I like Gizmodo as a great place to make one stop to learn about new gadgets but I don't go there for any sort of analysis or good editorial content.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (4, Insightful)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601525)

Indeed. It would have been nice if they said *something* about HD-DVD's strengths and relative design. For example, which format is more resistant to consumer damage? Or at the very least, how about an HD-DVD link next to that bright, blue Blu-Ray link?

I'm happy to know that Blu-Ray is a great format (and it really does appear to be a good format), but let's be somewhat objective here.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (1)

danheskett (178529) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601549)

If the authored pretended to be objective - put on that face - and wrote essentially the same article only with more objective-sounding wording, would that be better?

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (2, Insightful)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601619)

No, pretending to be objective and manipulating the words to reflect the pretense would not have been better. It would have been better if the article had been written by a writer that was knowledgeable and objective.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (1)

AKAImBatman (238306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601701)

No. My only issue is that I came away from the article knowing everything about Blu-Ray and almost nothing about HD-DVD. I don't mind the bias so much, as the complete lack of information on the HD-DVD disks.

Reading comprehension (4, Interesting)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601712)

Did you read the bit where he said HD-DVD has NO web page yet?

And resistant to consumer damage - What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING? It comes down to hardware/media price and avialiablity.

If 33%+ of the movie libaries are availiable in Blu-Ray, and NONE are availiable in HD-DVD - which would you image might be a more attractive purcahse? Even if HD-DVD discs can be run over by a truck and the Blu-Ray discs have to be kept in nitrogen cannisters between playing, the format that will get consumer marketshare is blindingly obvious.

Finally, I would say that he did give a numbre of details for technical advantages of the HD-DVD format - which have then been met and worked around by the Blu-Ray companies.

Sometimes an underdog is really, well, just a dog.

Re:Reading comprehension (3, Insightful)

smclean (521851) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601860)

What does resistance to consumer damage have to do with anything?

A lot! From a marketing standpoint (as if there were any other when dealing with manufacturers) the last thing they want is to have their brand name associated with discs which are rendered useless as soon as you get a fingerprint on them. (Not saying that Blu-ray is this sensitive, just making a point).

Actually that could be OK. (4, Insightful)

SuperKendall (25149) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602001)

Obviosuly either side is going to make discs that won't die when you sneeze.

But in fact a funny point sis that durability could be a major strike AGAINST HD-DVD. Did you read the part about Blu-Ray discs printed on paper? That could mean a lot more opportunity for throw-away discs in magazines or cerial boxes or wheverer. That is a huge draw to media types, to be able to push media through more channels.

So again, I would say the duribility of the format has nothing to do with sucess. Ease of use, yes - to some extent (which is why they aren't giving any cart-based players to the masses). The primary factor will be the one with a majority of media companies getting behind it and making things people want to buy. If there were a split between some media supporting one format, and some another, then there might be more of a fight - but it looks to be an absolute domination the part of Blu-Ray, as they said from any standpoint you care to look that would indicate future sales potential.

Re:Actually that could be OK. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602487)

Yeah, just think. You could put one of these 200Gig paper discs in a book and you could fill it with. . . hundreds of thousands of books. Each bookstore will only need one book. This is going to cut costs like mad.

Re:Reading comprehension (3, Insightful)

TeamSPAM (166583) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602086)

Agreed. Media damage is about the only thing I don't like about current DVDs. I have about 200 Music CDs (and my wife has about as many) and can't really recall any problems with playback. Where as I have an episode of Sex and the City on DVD that I didn't even get to watch because of the smallest scracth that I can barely see. I've also checked out DVDs from the library that were unwatchable. My personal experience leads me to believe that we need media that can handle media damage better.

Re:Reading comprehension (2, Insightful)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602235)

Well, he didn't mention the weight of the discs either. I'll assume that the omission means that both are within the weight range that you would expect for an optical disc. The fact that he omitted the resistance to damage means that it is likely what you would expect from the normal range of existing discs. Some manufacturers have made tweaky discs, but most formats are fairly resistant to light scratches.

--
Evan

Re:Reading comprehension (2, Informative)

swb (14022) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602215)

And resistant to consumer damage - What the hell does that have to do with ANYTHING? It comes down to hardware/media price and avialiablity.

Resistant to damage is a legitimate consumer concern and should be taken into account when evaluating a media system.

Certainly hardware, media pricing, and availability are key items in determining *economic* success, but just because something is widespread and inexpensive doesn't make it "better" than something else, just likely to be adopted by cheapskates.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602072)

if it aint open and free. then the foramt sucks.

I prefer the 100% open and free format that the china manufacturers are desgining.

I hope they flood the market with players that have the open format and ignore the others.

if consumers can get $49.00 hd-dvd players and the blu-ray players are $400.00

I think blu-ray will lose big time.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (1, Insightful)

ViolentGreen (704134) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602334)

HD-DVD sounds better. It takes two "technical" buzzwordish acronyms and combines them. The name alone tells what the product is.

Most people (including myself) wouldn't know what Blu-Ray is. Many initial adopters will buy it just because it's the latest and greatest and wouldn't take the time to research their format options. As far as they are concerned, HD-DVD is high definition DVD and you can't get any better then that.

Thanks HD-DVD, but *I'LL* wait for... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602583)

...VHD-DVD (Very High Def. DVD), or maybe I'll even wait for UHD-DVD (ULTRA-HIgh DEF DVD!!!) baby!!! YEAH!!!!

RTFA dumbdumb! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602364)

if you RTFA, they say there's actually no official HD-DVD website! what persay are they supposed to link to?

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601533)

How the hell did you get a first post like that? A subscription on an alternate account?

Are you kidding? (1)

Pi_0's don't shower (741216) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601554)

I don't go there for any sort of analysis or good editorial content.
It sounds like what you're complaining about *IS* the editorial content. I think it's great, personally, as a scientist, to see a writer who's passionate about one party over the other and isn't afraid to let that show. But if it's not objective, well, at least you can view the results of the tests at the site linked above in the article -- that should be enough of the serious analysis you seem to be wanting.

Re:Are you kidding? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601661)

For a scientist, you sure write like a moron.

Gizmodo, from the makers of Fleshbot and Wonkette. (3, Insightful)

markv242 (622209) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601626)

Seriously, isn't there a bit of a credibility gap? I love Gizmodo and all, but are they really the end-all-be-all of format reviewers? Let's see Tom's or Anandtech's opinions.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (1, Flamebait)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601663)


I'm wondering why, if you're not a fan of biased, editorializing analyses, would you be a fan of Gizmodo or any of the Gawker Media sites...

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (5, Insightful)

(SM) Spacemonkey (812689) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601991)

Yes, wonderful spin. Lets go through the article shall we.

Blu Ray Wins (cause we already said so)

Technical
Blu Ray has larger capacity
Blu Ray doesn't have backwards compatability, but thats a feature not a weakness!
Blu Ray may have a lower production cost, we don't know for sure, but thats still a plus for Blu Ray
Neither Blu Ray or the other one (we try not to mention the losers name) are going to use catridges. Point for Blu Ray

Financial
Blu Ray group has 70 members, the HD DVD forum has 220 members, but we saw this poster somewhere that only had 47 companies in support of HD DVD. So Blu Ray wins!
The economic size of the Blu Ray members is bigger. Except for Microsoft. But you know. Microsoft may change its mind and support Blu Ray. Blu Ray wins this one as well! Wow go Blu Ray!

Commerical
Blu Ray has 30% of the commerical resellers market! HD DVD has 0%! It is quite obvious that the 70% currently undecided will chose Blu Ray, because we said it won already!

Seriously, this article is not worth slashdot. It isn't worth anything.

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (4, Funny)

madprof (4723) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602302)

Thank you. You have convinced me Blu-Ray is the way forward.

But, what about (2, Funny)

ccharles (799761) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602090)

If Gizmodo is so biased, how did they get the pretty Excel [gizmodo.com] graphs [gizmodo.com] to prove their point??

Re:Dial back the bias a little bit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602091)

So did you get karmawhoring lessons from garcia [slashdot.org] or are you a natural born oral suction recepticle?

GOOD (4, Insightful)

RyuuzakiTetsuya (195424) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601497)

I like having my optical media encased in some sort of protective barrier. it saves me from myself.

As an American Slob(tm), I have a really slack attitude towards my optical media. Mostly due to how I can get away with it with everything else.

Go beta! (5, Funny)

static0verdrive (776495) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601504)

Hopefully it turns out just like the VHS vs. Beta war of the late 70's/early 80's. Beta is better quality and deserves the title it so successfully....WAIT A MINUTE!!

Re:Go beta! (4, Interesting)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601935)

Advice for savvy high-tech consumers:

STAY 5 TO 10 YEARS BEHIND TECHNOLOGICALLY

(less for computers, but same idea)

That way, when the early adopters are through spending their hard-earned cash on stillborn formats and their latest-and-greatest readers, and a format emerges as the winner, and a couple of clever hackers devise a way to get around the media companies' "niceties" (zoning anybody), then you'll enjoy dirt-cheap players and a great variety of content.

Of course, the next SuperDuperThingamabobEverybodyNeeds[TM] will already be there, but don't think for one second you need to stress over getting current, that's an artificial feeling created by PR hype from the format pushers. You'll get the shit a lot cheaper than your neighbour in a few years, no worries...

Re:Go beta! (2, Interesting)

JAgostoni (685117) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602494)

... which is exactly what I did with DVD. Had I jumped early and got a digital video player I may have been talked into Divx by the pushy salesman. By the time I got a DVD player, Divx was looong gone.

Same held true for a DVD burner. I waited a VERY long time before getting a burner. It wasn't until last year when I was able to pick up a multi-format RW for real cheap.

I'll plan on doing the same thing for HD-BlueRay-VD.

Re:Go beta! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602101)

The reason VHS won against Beta Max is that VHS had much more storage capacity, and people didn't want to switch tapes in the middle of a movie... even if the video and sound quality was better.

Blu-Ray has more storage capacity than HD-DVD. So the relation of Blu-Ray = Beta Max and HD-DVD = VHS doesn't quite gell with me.

I wouldn't mind whatever format comes out to be enclosed, though. I have always thought it strange that Mini-Disks didn't beat out CD's. You can't scratch them! Although I guess while the media is safer, the electronics accessing the media will be a bit more prone to dust and other particulates entering the cartridge bay. Not many people would check to see if the casing was clean before putting it in like they do the bottom of a CD/DVD.

Re:Go beta! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602295)

The Betamax of today is not the beta of yesterday. It wasn't THAT much greater a technology.

RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (-1, Troll)

TrollBridge (550878) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601514)

FRIDAY, OCT 22 2004
Blu-Ray Has Already Won

On Monday, we offhandedly declared Blu-Ray the winner over HD DVD to be the replacement of now standard DVD. Many have said that it's "too early to tell," but given both competitors have announced there will be products with their technology available to consumers before the end of 2005, we here at Gizmodo certainly don't think so. On the contrary, it's almost too late.

And so, we're declaring Blu-Ray the winner. Sure, the fact we want to call our optical media "Blurry Discs" for the next 10 years or so is a factor, but that's far from the prevailing one--Blu-Ray is not only technically superior to HD DVD, it has a far stronger corporate backing, and has demonstrated the ability to have more content available to push the format. After the jump, we break down the three areas--technical, financial, and commercial--where Blu-Ray has set itself apart from its only competition.

Technical

Since "technical" is quite broad, I'll begin by telling you about the all-important capacity. After all, for consumers like yourselves, this is one of the only technical aspects (well, aspects that vary between the two formats) of the disc you'll ever deal with. The capacity of a dual layered Blu-Ray disc is, for now at least, 50GB. The capacity of a dual layered HD DVD disc is 30GB. Already we see that Blu-Ray has 66% more overall storage capacity than HD DVD. But it doesn't stop there; Sony has announced that layering a disc beyond dual layering is possible, allowing up to a 200GB capacity on a Blu-Ray disc with 8 layers.

After John finished with me, he reached over onto the nightstand and brought out what we prepared earlier. Five raw eggs, emptied and drawn into a turkey baster. John excitedly inserted the baster into my ass and squeezed. Thoughts of sanitation quickly left my mind as a rush of pure pleasure came over me. Just when I thought it couldn't get any better, I realized the laxative I had taken just an hour earlier had kicked in. I tried with all my willpower to hold on. I could feel the warmth of John's breathing, and I knew his open mouth was right behind me. After what seemed like an eternity, I just let go. In a split second, a beautiful cocktail of raw egg, excriment, and man-juice erupted from my rear, coating John's face and hair and running down his body. A perfect end to a perfect evening--almost as perfect as when a troll like this gets modded up on Slashdot.

One of the technical advantages of HD DVD used to be how it was "backwards compatible with DVD," meaning, existing DVDs could be played on HD DVD players. I say "used to" because I don't consider this an advantage anymore--not only have plenty of companies already announced various technical elements (such as read heads, lenses, etc.) to be compatible with Blu-Ray, DVD, and CD, most Blu-Ray devices shown at this year's CEATEC JAPAN convention are also scheduled to be compatible with DVD. Backwards compatibility with DVD was one of the primary arguments HD DVD had against Blu-Ray, but as recent developments have suggested, that doesn't really apply anymore. In fact, just this past week, we reported on the "BD/CD Dual Format Disc," which is a disc containing both Blu-Ray and CD data layers.

So what are the other technical advantages of Blu-Ray? Supporters of HD DVD have claimed a primary strength of the format is on the production side, in that a DVD production line can be converted to an HD DVD production line "in 5 minutes." Also, the production of HD DVD discs is said to be around the same as that of current DVDs. While there is no response from the Blu-Ray camp about how long it would take a production line to "make the switch," Panasonic announced back in March of this year that production of Blu-Ray discs could have the same cost-per-disc price as current DVDs. Perhaps lower, even - remember that announcement about Blu-Ray discs made of paper from earlier this year? "The combination of paper material and printing technology is also expected to lead to a reduction in cost per disc and will expand usage," read the Sony press release. Likewise, Sony has developed a Blu-Ray mastering system requiring one fifth the space of current DVD mastering systems, that can also produce DVD masters.

There has been somewhat of a shitstorm about the cartridge versus "bare" configuration of each disc type. Current Blu-Ray discs and recorders, already available to Japanese consumers, use cartridges that contain the discs themselves. I think every modern optical media goes through this stage - CDs used to have them, DVDs (DVD-RAM, that is) used to have them, and now Blu-Rays have them. But it looks like you can relax a bit if you are a cartridge hater, as all recent Blu-Ray product unveilings (such as those at this year's CEATEC) do not feature cartridge-type drives. HD DVD, although there are still no consumer products available, have not been shown to use a cartridge type setup. Whether you consider cartridges an advantage or disadvantage is up to you, but one thing is for sure - neither Blu-Ray nor HD DVD will be using them in the future.

Financial

When it comes to corporate backing, that of Blu-Ray far exceeds that of HD DVD. Currently, the Blu-Ray Disc Association has over 70 members. Pinpointing exactly how many companies are members of the "HD DVD Promotion Group" is difficult, because they don't appear to have a homepage yet. The DVD Forum (over 220 members) has approved certain HD DVD standards, but saying they are all backing HD DVD is very misleading--the DVD Forum was established in 1997 for establishing standards and formats for DVD. Not HD DVD. A poster at the HD DVD booth during CEATEC JAPAN 2004 showed about 47 companies supporting HD DVD.

But it's not just about how many companies are listed on some silly "supporter list," because as with most things these days, quality is more important than quantity. So who's behind Blu-Ray? In no particular order: Sony, Sharp, LG Electronics, Dell, HP, Kenwood, FujiFilm, JVC, Panasonic, Philips, Hitachi, Samsung, 20th Century Fox, and about 50+ other companies. Maybe a couple of those ring a bell? For HD DVD, familiar names include NEC, Toshiba, and Sanyo. Interestingly enough, most of the member companies on the HD DVD radar are media manufacturers, and are members of both Blu-Ray and HD DVD groups. One of the alleged primary backers of HD DVD (and member of HD DVD Promotion Group), Sanyo, even showed products at this year's CEATEC compatible with Blu-Ray.

As you can see, the financial power of Blu-Ray Disc Association members simply dwarfs that of those behind HD DVD. I know what you're thinking right here, though: "Well didn't Microsoft announce the next version of Windows (Longhorn) would support HD DVD? Doesn't that mean they support HD DVD instead of Blu-Ray?" And you'd be right, about the announcement part at least. Microsoft may be a member of the DVD Forum (which as was explained earlier doesn't really matter), but their announcement of Windows support for HD DVD is just that - the OS will support the format. As you'd imagine, the financial backing of Microsoft to either format would give it an enormous advantage over its competitor. As I just said, though, Microsoft did not announce they would be backing HD DVD; they just said Windows will support it. There's no reason they couldn't come out tomorrow and say they'll also be supporting Blu-Ray.

Commercial

None of what I just said matters if consumers can't buy movies or other content on the formats. As history has proven time and time again, new formats are driven by content - DVD (as a movie format) did not get popular by just "being there." Each producer had to make the decision to make the switch from VHS to DVD. Blockbuster had to make the switch from VHS to DVD, though they certainly took their sweet fucking time. All this is to say, without content, neither format is going anywhere.

Blu-Ray is once again miles ahead of HD DVD in terms of scheduled content offerings.

Data Source: DVD EXCLUSIVE Survey

This graph shows USA DVD market share broken down by content provider.

And the same graph colorized to show content providers, where Blu-Ray is indicated by blue (imagine that), and red indicates nothing. It would appear at first glance that Blu-Ray hasn't got jack on HD DVD in this department, but take a second look - not only have Blu-Ray Disc Association members secured 30.2% of the USA's DVD market share, HD DVD hasn't got any yet. In fact, there haven't been any announcements from any content providers about offering HD DVD content. There have been no official announcements of the same respect for Blu-Ray, but it's obvious at least Sony Pictures Entertainment and MGM will be providing content, given Sony's recent purchase of MGM. I think it's also safe to assume that there's a good reason Fox announced they would be joining the Blu-Ray Disc Association. While these three companies may hold "only" a 30.2% market share, a Panasonic representative at this year's CEATEC stated that these same three companies hold 46.1% of the current title base.

As you can see from the graph, though, there are still a couple key players for offering movie content. Namely, Warner Brothers and Disney.

Of course, there is plenty more to optical discs than just movies. It's not like DVDs are used for only movies, after all. Once again Sony has demonstrated their influence of the industry in this area, by confirming the Playstation 3 would indeed be using Blu-Ray as its choice format. If that isn't enough for you, let's think about some of the hardware that has been presented.

Consumer level Blu-Ray products have been out in Japan since as early as April 2003, from Sony. Around the same time this year, Panasonic debuted their Blu-Ray recorder. I think the best representative of how far Blu-Ray has come physically, however, was shown at this year's CEATEC JAPAN 2004. Sony, Panasonic, Sharp, Pioneer, TDK, Mitsubishi, JVC, and Mitsumi all showed up to represent the format -- HD DVD was represented only by Toshiba, NEC, and Sanyo. JVC even announced this past week that they have created a new Blu-Ray compatible lens with one tenth the volume of current lenses, allegedly making "portable Blu-Ray products" possible.

So there you have it. Technically, financially, and commercially, Blu-Ray already has HD DVD beaten. Unless NEC and Toshiba pull out some trump card for HD DVD within the next year--and clearly, we don't see it happening--expect Blu-Ray to replace DVD.

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601601)

Somehow, I don't think the people that modded you up read the part about John.

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601704)

Somehow, I don't think the people that modded you up read the part about John.

Perhaps they found the part about John "informative".

*shrug*

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (1, Insightful)

RangerRick98 (817838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601602)

Might I suggest that those with modpoints read the second paragraph of the "technical" section in the parent post?

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602409)

Might I suggest that those with modpoints mod down the parent, because he's whoring?

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602488)

So is your mom: I just modded her (Score: 5, Sticky Pearl Necklace)

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601657)

Proof that mod's don't RTFA. I salute you sir.

--
Pluarlize noun's with apostrophe's: it pisses off grammar Nazi's.

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601724)

After John finished with me, ... A perfect end to a perfect evening--almost as perfect as when a troll like this gets modded up on Slashdot.

Mmmm.... Interesting article from Gizmodo.

Re:RTFA, even if it gets Slashdotted (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601728)

Nice troll. Do we have a jargon term for these yet?

Who with the what now? (4, Funny)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601536)

Who are these people and why should I care what they think? At first glance Gizmodo seems like a geek hanging out in EB down at the local mall expounding on why the PS2 is better then the xbox to anyone foolish enough to enter his rant field.

Re:Who with the what now? (1)

JabberWokky (19442) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602297)

That's fairly close. Gizmodo is really really good at exposing you to neat new things and is pretty responsible in distinguishing bad rumors, well sourced rumors and fact. After that, it is most certainly a "geek hanging out" rant site.

Which, in some cases, isn't bad. Good pictures, good attribution of sources, a keen sense for neat stuff... it's not a terrible site.

--
Evan

Logic? (5, Funny)

aborchers (471342) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601543)

movie industry and electronics manufacturers will see ... logic


You're new to this business aren't you?

ObNES Pro Wrestling (-1)

worst_name_ever (633374) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601550)

A WINNER IS BLU!!!

W00T! (0)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601551)

I get to ditch all my DVDs and the machines that can read them! W00T!

This is F'in stupid...

Re:W00T! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601689)

*grits teeth*
RTFA

Re:W00T! (1)

tricops (635353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601731)

I know this is slashdot, but you didn't happen to RTFA did you? Supposedly, most of the Blu-ray devices set to come out into the market have compatibility with DVD built in now.

Re:W00T! (1)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602175)

most of the Blu-ray devices set to come out into the market have compatibility with DVD built in now.

Yep, MOST. Do I have one of the magical playres *AND* DVD collection that is/are compatible? Who knows...
My point still stands.

Re:W00T! (3, Insightful)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602058)

"I get to ditch all my DVDs and the machines that can read them! W00T!"

Fortunately the wonderful thing about DVDs being a fully digital and cracked medium is that it will be very easy to copy them over to BluDisc-R whenever that becomes a commodity product.

Re:W00T! (0, Redundant)

Sean80 (567340) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602491)

The parent should be modded up. I absolutely agree. Who cares which technology wins, because I lose.

I now have a pretty large DVD collection in my house. 5 years down the track, when it gets harder and harder to find the old-spec DVD players, I'm probably going to have to think about buying some of them all over again. No doubt the movie industry will come out with new releases with super-mega-plus features and all that.

Sure, you can still get VCRs today, and even play those old vinyl things I've heard about, but I don't think that's the point. What the movie industry needs to do is separate the purchase of the rights from the purchase of the media. I should pay once for a lifetime right to watch such-and-such a movie. If the media changes, then I only pay for the costs of the new media, not the movie itself. If that medium is broadband, then I pay for carrier charges.

It seems pretty clear-cut to me, but I'm not sure if I'm raving.

Re:W00T! (1)

outZider (165286) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602627)

DeCSS and [insert-new-format] burner to the rescue.

Dual Compatability? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601553)

How feasable would it be to have devices support both formats, the same way most DVD-writers now are +/- R. Are blu-ray and hd dvd too different or could we end up seeing the same kind of thing where both formats are supported by most devices.

Re:Dual Compatability? (1)

(SM) Spacemonkey (812689) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601745)

The article mentioned this point, in a wonderful display of bias, bascially one of the weaknesses of HD DVD is its backward compatability. According to the article, companies are developing dual play devices, for both DVD and the already won next generation format Blu Ray. Hence backwards compatability is not a strength, and we need not mention it again. GO TEAM BLU RAY!

Seriously... was the article paid for... it is not the least bit crediable.

Re:Dual Compatability? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601907)

No, the article said that one of the strengths of HD DVD used to be that it was backwards compatible. It goes on to point out the current plans for Blue Ray players to be able to handle both formaats. It then says, that since both types of players will be able to handle standard DVDs, this can no longer be considered a strength for HD DVD.

Re:Dual Compatability? (1)

tomee (792877) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601880)

I can see it now: The gread new multi format optical drive with 52x,48x,24x,8x,4x,4x,2.4x,10x,44x,3.14159265x,5x,1 x,42x

Re:Dual Compatability? (4, Insightful)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601952)

"How feasable would it be to have devices support both formats, the same way most DVD-writers now are +/- R. Are blu-ray and hd dvd too different or could we end up seeing the same kind of thing where both formats are supported by most devices."

This multiple format business is a mess. Look at the problems with SACD and DVD-A. Nobody is buying them (and if the music industry stopped suing people and promoted those formats that are so much better than downloaded music they would actually make more money because there is new value there.)

But back to the topic at hand: The industry would benefit more from having ONE SINGLE TRUE UNIFIED STANDARD as opposed to a couple of standards, which would confuse people. The public at large (Joe Sixpack) gets all confused with this 2-format thing. They want to buy a movie and play it, not worry about if this disc will play on their type of player. When we have one unified standard, confusion is reduced, people cam just buy buy buy and made the industry happy. The the industry focus can be put on actually releasing content and worthwhile stuff, as opposed to teaching consumers that they need a different player for their Fox releases versus some other studio and then wondering why people don't buy any of these confusing and conflicting products.

Dear next-gen disc industry: ONE STANDARD PLEASE!

DVDA and SACD more complicated. (1)

CyberThalamus (822198) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602526)

SACD uses single-bit encoding, and DVDA multiple-bit--even though both can go multichannel. They are truly interesting as separate recordings.

Re:Dual Compatability? (2)

earthforce_1 (454968) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602537)

I wouldn't mind if they left off the region codes while they were at it.

Re:Dual Compatability? (1)

asoap (740625) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602000)

It sounds possible considering that both formats are compatible with DVD.

So it might not be a stretch of the imagination that you could get these two to work together, but you would only want to if they actually had a full on format war, and in which case I would pick the one that has more storage.

-Derek

The masses will ultimately decicde who wins (3, Insightful)

very (241808) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601556)

The masses will ultimately decicde who wins But then again, the masses could easily be persuaded and influenced. Most of the time, there will be a winner by default, not necessarily by it's own merrit or quality, etc. I can only hope that the better system wins. Be it Blu-Ray or HD-DVD Then again, I'm leaning against any camps that blindly adopts technology, such as Microsft's. notice the word "blindly" didn't see it? well blindness might be a factor.

Re:The masses will ultimately decicde who wins (2, Insightful)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601614)

The masses will ultimately decicde who wins

VHS vs. Beta, anyone?

(oh God, here we go again...)

VHS vs. Beta (0)

Leykis101 (662433) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601844)

In the USofA, VHS is widely adopted by the consumers, but Beta (or Beta2) is widely used by the news media. I recall that TV networks are utilizing Beta2 cameras. One of the cameraman cited that the quality of Beta2 surpasses VHS.

I don't see any Beta/Beta2 tapes being sold @ the neighboorhood electronic stores.

Another Professional use VS Consumer use

Re:VHS vs. Beta (3, Informative)

RMH101 (636144) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602172)

That would be because BetaCAM and BetaMAX are not the same thing in the slightest.

Re:VHS vs. Beta (1)

xanadu-xtroot.com (450073) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602474)

^^^^^^^^
Yep, correct. What he said.

(OK, I meant BetaMAX, but...)

My worry is... (4, Insightful)

MonsieurPiedlourde (594399) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601617)

It seems that the more data that you throw onto a 5" disc the less resilience to scratches there are. I understand that a lot of these discs will use redundancy to counteract the increased sensitivity to scratches. I would assume that would cut into the amount of data that can be stored on the disc. Am I wrong in assuming that being that the discs are 72x the capacity of a CD ROM that the information density is 72X more. If the discs have 72x the amount of information in a given area, wouldn't the disc be 72x more susceptible to scratches. I've noticed this when comparing CD to DVD's.

So why dump the cartridges?

Re:My worry is... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601946)

remember that discs have a two dimensional surface area. A 72x increase in aureal density (amount of data / area of data) corresponds to only a ~9x increase in linear density (square root of aureal).

Re:My worry is... (1)

JimmehAH (817552) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601981)

It's not quite like that because a) error detection and correction gets better and b) the extra space can be used for more redundancy and checks.

I would like to have my discs in a cartridge though. More peace of mind and it looks better IMO.

Re:My worry is... (1)

kfg (145172) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602336)

So why dump the cartridges?

So you can scratch it and buy another, silly.

KFG

Re:My worry is... (2)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602366)

So what, with 72x more data, you can afford to put 36x more information on the disc twice.

I also don't see you arguing against your hard drive becoming more and more dense. The same problem exists there.

Just use multiple lasers to read the data, that should be able to correct for many scratches, and movie/music data is less critical than computer data, error correction is built in, and a good CD/DVD player should be able to either find, extrapolate, or simply skip over the data that's missing without us noticing unless it gets really severe.

given that (4, Funny)

WormholeFiend (674934) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601641)

gizmodo.com and fleshbot.com are run by the same people, and written in the same style, it's no surprise that these guys vote for whatever gives them an erection.

My opinion. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601659)

Disclaimer: By reading, viewing, downloading, moderating, replying or ignoring this post, you agree that YOU ARE A FUCKING NERD! THIS GOES DOUBLE IF MODERATED -1!

YOU ARE FUCKING NERDS! Admit it use FreeBSD using GNU/Hippies who like doing penguins up the ass [blue-networks.net] . You all have no life and thatis why you have a one metre beard and you have a BMI of 60! That is why Bill Gates is a billionare while Lunix nerds are unemployed reading slashdot all day!

Slashdot sucks, and that's a encylopedic FACT! [wikipedia.org]

Convergence of Blu Ray and HD-DVD (1)

Leykis101 (662433) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601693)

The way I would like to see that it's either there will be some kind of convergence between two proposed standards, or one proposed standard crushed the other completely.

Honestly, I still am not over the DVD+R/W vs DVD-R/W

Why can't these companies get along?

I'll wait until the dust starting to settle before I fully adopt any of the proposed standards.

Which codec will be used for HD-DVDs? (2, Insightful)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601696)

Will it be the new h.264 or something else?
And does anyone with a preview release of Tiger have any information on how fast it codecs a file?

Re:Which codec will be used for HD-DVDs? (5, Informative)

Leykis101 (662433) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602069)

article on H.264
http://www.guidetohometheater.com/news/062804apple / [guidetohometheater.com]

According to a few articles, Microsoft is endorsing HD-DVD for the adoption of WMV9 codec

here [digital-digest.com]
here [arstechnica.com]
here [slashdot.org]
here [winnetmag.com]
then again, Paul Thurrot is to Microsoft as Rush Limbaugh to The Republicans

YIKES!!!!

-------

Re:Which codec will be used for HD-DVDs? (1)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602413)

Thank you for the links.
However, since both WMV9 and AVC (h.264) are included into specs, does that mean that each hardware DVD player will have to have both decoders?
And would each movie have to be encoded in either of the two?

Re:Which codec will be used for HD-DVDs? (1)

Wesley Felter (138342) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602607)

However, since both WMV9 and AVC (h.264) are included into specs, does that mean that each hardware DVD player will have to have both decoders?

Yes. They also have to include MPEG-2.

And would each movie have to be encoded in either of the two?

Yes.

Here's the Trick (3, Insightful)

ObligatoryUserName (126027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601742)

Ok, I know this sounds naive, but get this: If we all decide right now that Blu-Ray is the winner, and we cling to that idea in spite of any future arguments then it will be the winner. The masses have spoken. We don't have to go through another period of format instability. It's a wonder of the Internet, a snap decision by millions.

The only people who won't like this are the people who are supporting the other standard, you know DVD-whats_its_name, you know- the losers.

Re:Here's the Trick (4, Insightful)

eggoeater (704775) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602061)

Well, that sounds kind of ...naive.

Instead of just blindly going with one format over another, how about we see how these maturing technology standards develop and then make an INFORMED DECISION based on how they actually work. Agreed, consumers don't want to go through VHS/Beta again and neither do the manufacturers. There's more to it than jumping on the nearest bandwagon.

I lost my sig.

pat (3, Interesting)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601803)

which standard has the less patents attached? I would chose that.

Which will win...pirates may decide (2, Insightful)

FerretFrottage (714136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601839)

...just a random thought, but I would suspect that the one whose copy protection is the easiest to break may end up "winning" as that is the one many people would find to have the most "freedom" to use how they wish without all the tacked on restrictions (warranted or otherwise).

Why Blu Ray Will Win (5, Funny)

jetkust (596906) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601850)

Because "HD DVD" is too hard to say. Blu-Ray is easy and quick to say. 2 syllables: Blu, Ray. It's even easier to say that DVD, which is 3. Blu-Ray is a pronounciation dream. HD DVD is an acronym nightmare. Nobody wants to deal with that mess.

Re:Why Blu Ray Will Win (5, Funny)

Darth McBride (749942) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602229)

Blu-Ray is a pronounciation dream. HD DVD is an acronym nightmare.

Since HD-DVD uses a red laser, should we call it Red-ROM?

Red-ROM is way easier to say and it appeals to the Stephen King fans.

Anyway, this is the most boring Red vs. Blue episode I've ever seen.

Re:Why Blu Ray Will Win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602267)

HD DVD is 2 syllables too: "hid divd" ("divd" is one syllable...kinda like "caved"). You don't think consumers will go for that?

Re:Why Blu Ray Will Win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602512)

Well put. This is the very reason that Budweiser is the number one beer in America: "Bud". Even "MGD", "Amstel", or "Coors" is harder than that. They should just name it a "Nggh", so you could just grunt.

What is in a name? (4, Interesting)

clusterix (606570) | more than 9 years ago | (#10601942)

HD-DVD could be lower quality than regular DVD and have a fighting chance against something called Blu-Ray.

Since most people will recognize HD-DVD must be somehow better than DVD while Blu-Ray could be anything from enhanced color laundry detergent to insecticide. Without a ton of marketing and consumer education Blu-Ray will simple lose when the average couch potato goes to buy a new player from the local electronics megabarn.

While this has little to do with why BetaMax (nor why every other Sony proprietary standard has failed), Blu-Ray has some serious marketing problems to over come.

blue red yellow ..green.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10601947)

Can they all get together and give me a rainbow compatible one for this chrismas ....

Porn industry will decide the winner (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602022)

I think whichever standard the porn industry decides to use will be the winner.

50GB of Jenna Jameson...WOW!!

I have an idea... (2, Interesting)

ICECommander (811191) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602027)

I too have a disc format:
It can store 1 Petabyte of data (unfortunately due to quantum mechanics: some bits can be both 1 and 0)
DRM'ed to the core
Will go on sale in the next 2 to 40 years
Should come down in price around 2050

- There is always a focus on new media technologies and some can already predict the sucess of a a very volatile market. (Remember when BETAs and 8-track where 'in')

Thank God it's friday! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602118)

I'd love to post a comment on Slashdot, but you know. It's friday. I'm ramming my cock inside of my girlfriends pussy instead! Why don't you get a life too???

coc4 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602123)

It's simple, really... (5, Funny)

14erCleaner (745600) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602166)

Just find out which format Sony is backing, and pick the other one.

Re:It's simple, really... (1)

stud9920 (236753) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602349)

Go betamax ! Go !

Which one's cheaper to produce (2, Insightful)

raider_red (156642) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602277)

Hate to say that it won't be decided on technical merit, but businesses have a history of choosing an inferior standard if it benefits their bottom line. (Think VHS vs. Beta.)

Wildest optimism (2, Insightful)

abb3w (696381) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602306)

Hopefully the movie industry and electronics manufacturers will see the same logic and avert a format war."

What makes you think the movie industry will see logic? They haven't been too hot on it before...

format comparison (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10602357)

Anyone have a link to an article that objectively compares Blu-Ray and HD-DVD?

Error rate comparison? (2, Interesting)

CyberThalamus (822198) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602432)

We hear a lot about speed and capacity, but what about errors? I've stayed away from DVD+-/?!@#RW because of the chance of not having a player read a disc (or worse perhaps it reading it wrong).

Blu, you're my boy! (1)

dickeya (733264) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602541)

Now for the Jello wrestling.

why are they all the CD-sized? (2, Insightful)

X_Caffeine (451624) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602557)

I bet someone here can answer this question for me. Why are all these optical discs (aside from the venerable Laserdisc) manufactured with the same dimensions as the Compact Disc?

Soon we'll have three or four 120mm discs. Why not make the Blu-Rays a little wider, so there's no chance of them being inserted into a non-Blu-Ray device? (and the side benefit of a few more tracks == more space) Backward compatibility would be maintained, of course.

Is it just because it's cheaper to reuse some of the manufacturing equipment from the CD assembly lines?

The real quesiton is: (1)

DeepFried (644194) | more than 9 years ago | (#10602586)

Who declared Gizmodo [gizmodo.com] the authority.

I dont think that they have won the Gizmodo [gizmodo.com] vs. Engadget [engadget.com] debate.

I do like them both.
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