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PayPal bought it (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614618)

But they were using BidPay, so Yahoo will never see the money now.

GNAA announces victory over Matthew Tanner Bonig (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614625)

GNAA announces victory over Matthew Tanner Bonig

GNAA freedom fighters attack mbonig into submission

Cakedrink KillsPics - Sinclair Broadcasting Correspondent

In the GNAA.s continued effort to combat mindless idiocy, blogging, and bigoted oppression of gay nigger rights, GNAA member Penisbird has announced victory over mindless slashbot and blogger [blogspot.com] mbonig.

In true Hitlerian fashion, mbonig wanted to deny freedom speech to gay black men under the guise of his own nazi-esque values of censorship. .Gasgaynigs., mbonig was quoted as saying to a swooning crowd of neo-nazis ready for a golden shower of his drivel.

GNAA member Penisbird, who is considered of one of the most gifted and intelligent members, according to the GNAT or Gay Nigger Aptitude Test, excellently crafted his arguments against the nazi, as shown here [slashdot.org] , and was able to counter every point with concise and irrefutable facts. In the usual Slashdot hypocrisy, anyone who fights for the legitimate rights of the unpopular is considered a troll and this thread was no different.

The tragic defeat on Slashdot forced mbonig to retreat to his blog [blogspot.com] and admit that the GNAA.s posts are free speech (unlike what he said earlier) while at the same time slandering Penisbird.s impeccable character. Penisbird does not tolerate such insolence and proceeded to attack his wretched blog.

In the most skilled fashion, Penisbird proceeded to flood his blog as a form of legitimate protest. Like an relentless flood of nigger cocks, Mbonig (which is an intentional slur against niggers) tried to squelch the massive flood of protest posts by deleting hundreds of comments but could not keep up. His next step was to disable commenting for a couple of days. The very morning he restored comments and declared that by requiring logins, the attacks would cease. Wrong. Penisbird was on the attack and continued the assault.

After the morning offensive, mbonig quickly and embarrassingly disabled comments, declaring that .script kiddies. (the scripts in question consist of Microsoft Internet Explorer and the refresh button) do not deserve the same free speech rights he enjoys. However, Penisbird was victorious in that he caused mbonig to permanently disable comments. Penisbird vows to keep up the assault on his Slashdot posts and anywhere else he tries to oppress free speech rights online.

mbonig claims that he is not hiding who he is. Really? What is your last name? Where do you live? Oh, it seems that you are hiding who you are. Hypocrite.

About mbonig:

mbonig is a mindless Slashbot and blogger [blogspot.com] who constantly tries to oppress free speech online. He is a known neo-Nazi and supports the gassing of Gay Men of African Descent.

Mbonig is currently offering gmail invites, You may partake his invitation below:
https://gmail.google.com/gmail/a-b0ab39f1a8-51723 [google.com]

About GNAA:

GNAA
(GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which
gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [dickcream.com] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America. You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!

  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAY NIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. (You can download the movie (~130mb) using BitTorrent, by clicking here [idge.net] .
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA "first post" on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today!

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is Niggernet, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________. fucking
| ______________________________________._a,____ | CmdrTaco
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | will
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | he ever learn that
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA is totally
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | unstoppable? Teamed
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | up with the other troll groups,
| _________#1__________?________________________ | GNAA will absolutely own
| _________j1___________________________________ | the shitty place that is slashdot.
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Just remember, the longer the lines are,
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | the smaller CmdrTaco's penis.
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | This logo is (C) 2003, 2004 GNAA [idge.net]
` _______________________________________________'

(C) GNAA 2004

oh nos (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614627)

Watch out for Spitzre's wrist! oh nos [xinhuanet.com]

Will they allow us to roll our funds into PayPal? (3, Interesting)

Power Everywhere (778645) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614628)

PayPal should do that if they'd like to pick up some more customers. Yahoo should so that since they're nigging out on people.

Nigging out? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614642)

Could you be a bit more racist in your next post? Thanks.

Re:Nigging out? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614696)

No matter what I do I can't even figure out from the context what it's supposed to mean. I can't think of any words that it might be a typo of either.

Re:Nigging out? (2, Informative)

polecat_redux (779887) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614723)

No matter what I do I can't even figure out from the context what it's supposed to mean. I can't think of any words that it might be a typo of either.

Perhaps he was thinking of reneged [m-w.com] ?

Re:Nigging out? (0, Flamebait)

shubert1966 (739403) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614745)

Reneged - sure I believe that, or even "niggardly". Both seem to be unrelated to the American "N" word, but they're close enough that I DO despair over them.

This is one of those words that we could easily remove from the lexicon if we could get over the absolutist position that ALL free speech is a good thing.

It simply is NOT.

Re:Nigging out? (1, Offtopic)

Canth7 (520476) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614778)

Rather than suggest the word should be removed, it simply seems better to moderate and ignore. Free speech still rules in importance, except when deemed a direct public menace - screaming "fire" in a movie theatre, etc.

Free Speech (-1, Flamebait)

shubert1966 (739403) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614861)

I know, I know, and my friends and I don't use the word. The 'slippery slope' of defending my position means to say "where censorship stops" - which I can't readily legislate. I just loathe that word.

The dynamics of yelling FIRE in a theater are similar to saying the F word in front of children, though obviously no one will get killed from it - the damage is there. I dunno, I realize I'm wrong, and I should be happy that there are more of us than them, it just seems that while my friends and I in effect censor out the word - why can't a public forum also ddo so without getting flamed for violating free speech? It seems like their is not much reward in allowing that and other words to be spoken or typed.

I guess darwin will take care of it in time anyway. ;)

Re:Nigging out? (2, Informative)

polecat_redux (779887) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614845)

This is one of those words that we could easily remove from the lexicon if we could get over the absolutist position that ALL free speech is a good thing.

It is interesting how some words for some reason have a negative connotation attached to them, while others, although with the same meaning, do not. For example, the "N"-word has its roots in the word "negro" - the Spanish word for "black". I personally believe that "black" is a pefectly acceptable, descriptive word, just as "white" is. But once a word has a negative context associated with it, it becomes forever unsavory, despite the benign etymology of the word.

In other news... (5, Funny)

bastardsquadmuzz (573762) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614629)

...the American public cry out that the Dollar is a monopoly, and that Pounds and Yen should be allowed as well.

Re:In other news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614726)

There are actually some Libertarians who believe that we should have multiple competing currencies. My opinion is that when you start to use the same answer for every question, you need to rethink things a bit.

Re:In other news... (3, Informative)

mochan_s (536939) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614772)

The dollar is not a profit-maximizing corporation.

What next? Water has monopoly over showering substance?

Re:In other news... (3, Funny)

peterprior (319967) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614782)

..so paypal now accepts monopoly money ?

Re:In other news... (1)

jb.hl.com (782137) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614788)

God knows why, but when I read that this [greenplastic.com] sprang to mind:

we are the DOLLARS & CENTS
and the PoUNDS and Pence
the MARK and the YEN
We are going to crack your little souls
We are going to crack your little souls

we are the DOLLARS & CENTS
and the PoUNDS and Pence
and the PoUNDS and Pence
We are going to crack your little souls
We are going to crack your little souls


I need to turn off the music...

Re:In other news... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614858)

the American public cry out that the Dollar is a monopoly, and that Pounds and Yen should be allowed as well.
My response here might be slightly offtopic, but I haven't found another good opportunity to bring up this important issue. You might well want to start acquiring assets in Pounds, Yen, and Canadian Dollars :)

Simply put, the US dollar is crashing. The beloved media (CNN, CNBC) are pulling the wool over the public's eyes. International investors are not confident about the US's ability to handle it's debt (7+ trillion), they are pulling out cash. The US dollar has lost 25% of its value against euro, canadian, etc. Check the facts here [yahoo.com] and here [yahoo.com] ... see how much value the US dollar is losing? Do you realize this effectively makes your U.S. salary something like 20% less valuable than it was a couple years ago? This is a BIG problem. You won't hear it in the media, but damn will you feel it because the US imports everything!

I have never understood... (2, Insightful)

stankulp (69949) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614632)

...the need for PayPal, other than as a means for vendors that VISA/MC won't have to sell things to customers in a manner that prevents those customers from having any recourse for fraud and defective merchandise.


If a company won't take my credit card, I don't purchase their merchandise, period.

Re:I have never understood... (4, Informative)

DoorFrame (22108) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614640)

Paypal is a hell of lot faster and easier than using credit cards. Also, as someone who sells things on eBay on a regular basis, it allows me to accept payments both from paypal people and from people with credit cards, which I wouldn't have otherwise been able to do. Also, I can dump money directly from paypal into my bank account, which I cannot do with my credit card.

So there you go.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

stankulp (69949) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614669)

I have no doubt that it is advantageous to you as a vendor, but I utterly fail to see the advantage to me as a buyer, and I see lots of disadvanteges, primarily the disadvantage that you can defraud me and I have little recourse other than to beg PayPal to give me my money back.

With credit cards the burden of proof is on the vendor. With PayPal the burden of proof is on the purchaser.

I will keep my advantage, thank you.

Re:I have never understood... (4, Insightful)

Torham (544278) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614727)

The advantage to me as a consumer is that I don't have to give my CC# to a complete stranger. The burden of proof is on the vendor but it is still a hassle to get everything fixed if your card number is stolen.

Re:I have never understood... (2, Interesting)

jsebrech (525647) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614910)

The advantage to me as a consumer is that I don't have to give my CC# to a complete stranger. The burden of proof is on the vendor but it is still a hassle to get everything fixed if your card number is stolen.

It's a hassle to get it back, but if you're defrauded with paypal you can't get it back. Personally I'd rather have trouble getting it back than to not be able to get it back at all.

Also, if your card number gets stolen out of a database from someone you gave it to, visa usually quickly finds out and issues you a new card. I've had this happen to me once, when one of the sites I had purchased something from had their server hacked into. VISA had replaced my card before the bad guys got around to trying to charge me for something.

Re:I have never understood... (2, Informative)

dissy (172727) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614794)

> I have no doubt that it is advantageous to you as a vendor, but I utterly fail
> to see the advantage to me as a buyer

I guess the main problem is, when set up correctly, you do not need a paypal account as a buyer to do business with someone using paypal on the vendor side.

So the advantage to you is that you refuse to do business with the vendor unless they accept your credit card, and paypal allows them to accept your credit card.

Additionally, all the disadvantages you claim are bogus.

> With credit cards the burden of proof is on the vendor. With PayPal the burden
> of proof is on the purchaser.

Seeing as you as the buyer are using your -credit card- in both situations, there is no difference what so ever.

You can have your credit card company issue a charge back aginst ANYONE you use your credit card with, the actual merchant being used, visa or mastercard directly, one of the millions of other merchants/banks, or paypal. That doesnt matter, because your credit card company simply sees a purchase, and can void that purchase just the same.

Being no different than with a credit card (because thats exactly what you are using to make the purchase) i fail to see how you think the burden is now on the purchaser...

Re:I have never understood... (4, Interesting)

TClevenger (252206) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614886)

Uh, sorry. The buyer disadvantages are NOT bogus. Here's my example.

I bought $82 worth of magazines from a seller in Colorado. Seller never shipped the item. I issued a chargeback request with PayPal, who then said it would take 60 days to 'investigate.'

After about 60 days (right after my chargeback privilege with my issuer expired), they sent me an email stating, "We have found in your favor. However, the seller has a zero balance in their bank account, so we cannot give you your money."

The seller continues to do business through PayPal through the same account, with no further attempts by PayPal to hold the money or withdraw it. I've issued further complaints to PayPal, which have been ignored. Needless to say, I will be claiming my money back through the class action lawsuit already in progress.

Re:I have never understood... (5, Interesting)

tekunokurato (531385) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614813)

I bought a laptop from someone who ended up sending me a piece of shit. I tried to get them to take it back, and they gave me further crap about no returns, condition as advertised, etc. I then e-mailed paypal and they sent me a response in UNDER two hours with their insurance information, how they were investigating, and what my recourse options were. About two days later they wrote back saying they had gotten the vendor to cooperate and that all I needed to do was send the laptop back and have receipt confirmed by the shipper (not necessary to have it confirmed by the asshole vendor) and they'd refund my money. I did and they did. Couldn't be more pleased. I used to work at MBNA, which is about the highest-service CC company out there, and their claims were nowhere near that quick.

Moreover, the other advantage to you as a buyer is that you can easily and conveniently do business with a HUGE range of people you could not previously do business with. That increases merchant competition and keeps prices lower.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

bob beta (778094) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614838)

I have no doubt that it is advantageous to you as a vendor, but I utterly fail to see the advantage to me as a buyer

Well, as long as you're happy to pay Full Retail or a 'Substancial' Discount on only new merchandise from the kind of big companies that can afford a merchant account with a Credit Card company, you'll do fine.

The rest of us thrive in a flea-market world. Your kind really isn't needed here, so stick with what suits you.

Re:I have never understood... (2, Insightful)

Cuthalion (65550) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614912)

The advantage to me as a buyer is I can buy from people who don't transact enough to make CC processing economical. In certain markets (ie, eBay) the question is not "what is the advantage of PayPal over using credit cards" but "What is the advantage of PayPal over sending a personal check". Then the advantage is: Convenience and speed.

Re:I have never understood... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614653)

MeatBox has an article [meatbox.net] about a new service called the Lysol GoatTV, its a cheap and comeptitive alternative to PayPal that is starting to get some press. It think if they get some more capital, it could take down PayPal once and for all.

Re:I have never understood... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614779)

That is a kickass payment system! I've used it in place of PayPal and found it to be very user friendly and convenient. Sure, the name is kind of wierd and it's not in widespread use quite yet, but give it some time. PayPal, watch out!

Re:I have never understood... (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614659)

vendors that VISA/MC won't have

Like home businesses?

If a company won't take my credit card, I don't purchase their merchandise, period.

Do you also boycott independent bands?

Re:I have never understood... (2, Funny)

Duncan3 (10537) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614664)

Awww, don't hate... even criminals need to do banking. And Paypal is PERFECT for them, designed to serve their exact needs.

Remember the Paypal slogan "We are not a bank".

Re:I have never understood... (1)

russint (793669) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614698)

No, criminals use webmoney [webmoney.ee] or e-gold [e-gold.com]

Re:I have never understood... (1)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614673)

The issue isn't with Visa or MC, its the bank that supplies you with the merchant account.

The costs involved in getting a merchant account are reasonably large, too much for small ebay sellers and companies with small turnovers. Paypal is very cost effective in these cases (mainly due to no gateway fees).

As for fraud and defective merchandise - you should read all the bad stuff that people come out with concerning Paypal and its policy on chargebacks. I think its more a 'paypal sucks' type mentality, but Paypal does do chargebacks.

Re:I have never understood... (2, Informative)

etymxris (121288) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614789)

The costs involved in getting a merchant account are reasonably large, too much for small ebay sellers and companies with small turnovers. Paypal is very cost effective in these cases (mainly due to no gateway fees).
IIRC, it is something like $700 USD yearly for each of Mastercard and Visa to get a merchant account and accept credit payments. I was looking into selling file hosting bandwidth, and seeing what it would take to get payment services set up. But the initial cost is just too high for a small time operation like I was planning. I don't like paypal, but it was pretty much that or nothing.

If you only buy from people that take credit card payments directly, you'll end up paying for that privilege.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614674)

It's intended for people who either can't afford or don't want to go through the hassle of getting a merchant account with Visa, Mastercard, or American Express. For example if I just want to sell a single item on eBay it would be really stupid to try to get a merchant account for just one transaction. The only other options are money orders and checks, both of which are less desirable than PayPal, even after considering all of its faults.

It's for small-timers (1)

Gogl (125883) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614706)

Not every exchange online is between companies, it's often between private individuals, and Paypal makes it much easier for someone to accept credit card payments.

That said, I'm quite leery about Paypal and recognize the general lack of recourse and such, but it is a service that many people find useful.

Re:I have never understood... (-1, Flamebait)

MacFury (659201) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614710)

If a company won't take my credit card, I don't purchase their merchandise, period.

moron.

Re:I have never understood... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614740)

>If a company won't take my credit card, I don't purchase their merchandise, period.

moron.

Faggot.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

Zebbers (134389) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614721)

i agree in regards to vendors and companies.

But it was convenient for me, before I boycotted due to their inexcusable behavior. It was a lot easier to pay that way than go get a MO and mail it just for the 3 dollar book you bought on ebay.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

wathead (730323) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614728)

I never understood it either. paypal screwed me out of about 70$ not enough to call my CC company over but on principle alone I wore them(paypal) out.
Then a few weeks later I hear of thier IPO and how they had frozen thousands of accounts to make them look like they where worth more than they where.
I am just so glad I was not stupid enough to give them my Bank Account info that they begged for so badly.
I had even read about people opening bank accounts for paypal only and would empty them every day. Peoplethat where selling on Ebay and such.
A friend of mine sells on Ebay and he will deliver after the check clears or take a cashiers check. He refuses to use paypal and has not had one problem doing buisness that way.
Just my .02$ worth

Re:I have never understood... (1)

ThJ (641955) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614855)

If you're selling/buying on eBay, you're trusting the same company you aren't trusting with PayPal. eBay originally created PayPal as a more practical means of payment for their customers. I'm sure your friend doesn't deal much with people out of the United States, but for international payments, PayPal is king. There is no other service that is even remotely comparable in terms of pricing. Try asking your bank about transfering money from/to Norway or any other country other than perhaps Canada. Bring your comb. You'll need it. I'm a small-time business owner and I sell 43 dollar/year .com hosting domestically and internationally. Domestically, invoices do the job. Norwegian banks transfers funds cheaply in a manner of seconds. Internationally, PayPal is my only option. I don't make a fortune on this. A VISA merchant account would be a waste of money.

Re:I have never understood... (4, Interesting)

wcdw (179126) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614760)

From the e-tailer point of view, we added PayPal for the convenience of our customers. And a substantial percentage of our total orders are settled that way - even though we *do* take credit cards.

*WHY* people use PayPal? Well, there are those who don't have credit cards, to start. (I had a bank account _long_ before I got my first credit card, many years ago though that was.) Beyond that, there have always been people who, for whatever reason, prefer to e.g. write checks, or use their debit card. PayPal is/can be the on-line equivalent. Not to mention literally thousands of reasons of which I haven't thought. ;)

http://www.theboyz.biz/ [theboyz.biz] Your source for computers, parts, electronics, small applicances and more!

Re:I have never understood... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614818)

You're a jackass. That's just stupid.

Perhaps you've heard of this concept of "small business"? The idea that every small business can afford to pay the fees to the major credit card companies when they're starting out is not a realistic one. So I hope you never need anything from a "small business" as they'll never be able to serve your needs.

It's morons like you that are dragging this country to hell.

Re:I have never understood... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614827)

A visa/mc merchant account is cheap (less than a comcast "business" account) and should be a standard operating cost for any small business that wants me as a customer.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

grumbel (592662) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614822)

In germany credits cards are far less widespread, so for a lot of people 'pay only via credit card' is equal to 'not available'. Paypal on the other side can be used in combination with a normal bank account, no need for a credit card, and makes international bank transfer pretty easy, especially for smaller amounts of money. When it comes to micropayment, Paypal is really the only one that gets close.

Re:I have never understood... (1)

(eternal_software) (233207) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614825)

My company accepts both. We have a simple PayPal account, and the full blown merchant account, with an SSL cert, payment gateweay, custom code, and all the rest that goes with it.

And you'd be surprised that a large number of people choose the PayPal option, for two reasons. TRUST and CONVIENENCE.

They trust PayPal because they are a huge company
that they have used before. It's extremely convienent because they don't have to re-enter all their credit card and billing information into yet another website. They just hit the "Pay" button and they're done.

Yahoo Stores (2, Interesting)

BrianGa (536442) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614636)

This was a decent service and was in some ways a superior "eshopping cart" service. Many small websites or discount hardware websites use Yahoo stores and used the PayDirect service...I wonder if Paypal will, indeed, take it's place.

Canada still has CertaPay (5, Informative)

bcs_metacon.ca (656767) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614638)

A consortium of Canadian banks (BMO, CIBC, RBC, ScotiaBank, and TD) offer "email money transfers" through CertaPay [certapay.com] . My wife and I use it for almost everything we used to do through PayPal because -- unlike PayPal -- it's free for both the sender and receiver (as long as you have a banking plan that gives you a number of free transactions per month).

Re:Canada still has CertaPay (3, Informative)

gbjbaanb (229885) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614692)

Anbd in the UK, you want to check out Natwest's FastPay [fastpay.com] . Much cheaper than Paypal, in the few areas where it isn't free.

Re:Canada still has CertaPay (2, Informative)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614894)

The original poster pointed out the same service I was going to, but a few things are worth mentioning.

Certapay isn't just a method of paying vendors - it's often referred to by banks as an 'e-mail money transfer', and this is what it is. I can put through a transfer from my online banking and send it to my roommate, and the system sends him an e-mail. When he recieves it, he can confirm and accept payment, and the money is automatically put into his bank account. Thus, I can send money from my account to his between banks instantly, at almost no charge (I get billed a $1.50 charge when I send). No reliance on credit cards, external companies, no worries about getting your accounts frozen for doing a lot of transactions (I have friends that have had this done by PayPal). Very nice, very handy.

--Dan

Re:Canada still has CertaPay (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614954)

I love your sig.

The problem: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614641)

In areas like this a monopoly is actually needed. If one e-business uses one service, other ones using other services as well it just gets too cluttered.

Re:The problem: (1)

grasshoppa (657393) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614677)

Simplistic. Wrong, and simplistic.

We do not ever need a monopoly, that invites all sorts of problems we need to avoid. Instead, we need common ways to talk to each other that aren't patent encumbered.

Re:The problem: (1)

konekoniku (793686) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614777)

"we do not ever need a monopoly, that invites all sorts of problems we need to avoid."

that statement itself is simplistic, though i'll agree the parent post was also over-the-top. basically, regulated monopolies are efficient in some markets that have low variable costs but high fixed costs (whether electronic micro-payment services fits this description is another question entirely).

Re:The problem: (2, Insightful)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614720)

no, you don't need a MONOPOLY.

what you need is co-operation between the competing services.

around here we dont' have a monopoly in banking services.. but transferring money between banks is _easy_ because they co-operate.

Re:The problem: (1)

eln (21727) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614732)

If they just regulated these services and forced them to follow the same rules as banks, you wouldn't "need" a monopoly. Paypal is in the business of transferring and holding money. How they can get away with saying they're not a bank is beyond me.

Re:The problem: (5, Interesting)

Skapare (16644) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614792)

However, this is also an area where a monopoly is least desireable. This is shown by the abuses PayPal has done with their shoddy customer service, and the ripoffs they've done against many people. What it comes down to now is that you either use PayPal or you don't ... and a lot of people don't. If a seller is able to take my credit card directly, fine. If not, maybe I'll send them a money order or cashier's check. But I'm not risking my money [paypalwarning.com] in PayPal.

I do have an alternative system idea in mind, and I am preparing a document on how it would work. It involves a new exchange system between banks that parallels their existing money exchange systems. An auction seller or shopping site would generate an "open transaction" through their bank (or equivalent service provider). The transaction code is given to the buyer, who then can submit it to their bank for payment. The security is a function of buyer's arrangement with their own bank. Once the bank has determined they are truly dealing with their own account holder who has approved payment on the transaction, payment is sent through a central clearinghouse. It should take under a minute to go through to the seller. Responsibility for fraud would be at the sending bank. The system would also send no private information on the transaction; it would be a blind, and non-reversible, payment. Seller would not know where the payment came from, but would know it cannot be reversed within the system. If the sending bank made a mistake, such as letting an unauthorized person access the buyer's account, that's the responsibility of the sending bank, and buyer's would choose their bank on the basis of how well they deal with security. Both parties would never have to deal with entities other than the one they chose to be their bank.

Paypal still poorly integrated with eBay (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614662)

I still can't believe how clumsy the eBay to Paypal interface is a year after the merger. Can't they make it seemless so that my customers don't have to sign in twice to make a payment?? They certainly have made enough in fees to improve the system.

Re:Paypal still poorly integrated with eBay (3, Interesting)

DrStrange66 (654036) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614729)

Keeping the systems separate is in my opinion a protection to the consumer. I would never want my paypal account connected directly to my ebay account. I have had my ebay account broken into but never had my paypal account messed with. I would rather have to input my two different passwords to make a payment for a purchase than to have that worry that my bank account is prone to an ebay phishing scam.

A monopoly? (2, Insightful)

Keith Emerson (824935) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614671)

This is just more hyperbolic editorial blather on the part of timothy. If you can name a couple of significant competitors off of the top of your head, then it's not a monopoly. It would be a monopoly if it were impossible to use anything but PayPal, but it's not. We all have a choice. If we hate PayPal that much maybe we should launch a boycott of them and all tangentially related companies. Then we can use the superior alternatives instead of letting PP become the next Microsoft.

No, timothy did the mostly right thing (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614685)

He corrected the submitter by naming several competitors. He could've gone further by removing the submitter's comment entirely, though.

Other players (3, Funny)

craXORjack (726120) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614699)

There are other players in this field, though, like bidpay and worldpay.

Wasn't there one also called e-gold [e-gold.com] that purchases actual gold to back its electronic currency? Of course, if you had a lot of money in it and somebody discovered how to turn lead into gold, well then you'd be ruined. So its kind of a risky holding.

Re:Other players (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614817)

that's the best e-currency availiable.

Re:Other players (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614828)

``somebody discovered how to turn lead into gold, well then you'd be ruined. So its kind of a risky holding.''

LOL. PayPal has it a lot better, though. They convert bits into money. :-)

Anyway, the problem with e-gold and the likes is that they denominate everything in gold. While arguably more objective than USD, it feels a bit clumsy. I think that explains the lack of popularity.

no, the problem with egold (1)

poptones (653660) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614925)

is they are only a "holding company" and to actually get "ewgold" you have to go through one of their money changers. Then you have to do it AGAIN to get money back out. Because it is "gold" few of these folks bother with credit cards, and most that do actually allow you to (for example) use your Visa to buy egold charge an additional fee on top of the 4-7% they already get.

Paypal is WAY cheaper than egold. Which is to be expected, since (contrary to the idiotic blather elsewhere in this thread) paypal isn't particularly "anonymous" nor "friendly to criminals" - whereas egold is VERY accomodating to the needs of those with something to hide, which one pays extra for.

Re:Other players (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614859)

Did the ease of printing more US dollars ever come to mind?

I'd much rather like my wealth to be backed in gold rather than paper.

NoChex (2, Interesting)

Frogg (27033) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614701)

In the UK we still have NoChex [nochex.com] , which is a very similar kind of thing...

Re:NoChex (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614849)

Except that NoChex only accept UK credit cards, whereas PayPal is pretty much worldwide.

c2it dead too? (2, Funny)

Bitmanhome (254112) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614702)

I'm not surprised, the c1it service was much more fun.

Re:c2it dead too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614951)

I'm not surprised, the c1it service was much more fun. The fees were a bitch though.

Should I shut mine down, too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614712)

I wonder if I should shut down the "PayPa1" service I started. (Ends in a number 1... bet you didn't see that right off. hehehehe.)

Re:Should I shut mine down, too? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614767)

Normally, a stupid AC will respond to obvious jokes, explaining them needlessly. Efficient fellows like the parent poster eliminate the need for this by ruining their own jokes.

Re:Should I shut mine down, too? (1)

Botty (715495) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614901)

Due to my long hours in my parents basement and locked into my dorm room growing a long beard without showering playing CS and D&D I saw that right off as I speak fluent leet,klingon, and spanish.

Wow, thats alot of stereotypes I just mashed in there. Although the spanish has nothing to do with it... I'll shutup now....

Futures (1)

headisdead (789492) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614716)

A prediction: So often when an idea comes around, one player emerges as disproportionately successful, and in that early charge it's very difficult to achieve competitive diversity. Paypal was a market leader in an emerging market. But we've seen this happen time and time again, especially in technology: just when we think Paypal's monopoly has become a fait accompli will be the time when people become most open to competition. I figure that only once we start to get *really* annoyed with Paypal (as sure we are already) and frustrated by the lack of options, will those competitors start to look so very attractive.

Re:Futures (1, Insightful)

polecat_redux (779887) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614762)

So often when an idea comes around, one player emerges as disproportionately successful, and in that early charge it's very difficult to achieve competitive diversity.

That sounds similar to the way in which Netscape Navigator was the clear leader in the web browser market until a less expensive alternative [microsoft.com] was developed.

Competitors (3, Informative)

mr_sas (682067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614717)

Worldpay is not really a competitor to the main paypal market, since iirc it costs GBP100ish (USD 180) a significant amount (to an average part time ebay seller) to set up, plus an annual yearly fee, plus they take so much per transaction. Nochex [nochex.com] is a competitor, but it was limited to UK customers only last time I checked it out.

No Alternatives (2, Insightful)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614725)

I hope somebody will step up and prove me wrong, but after some extensive searching, I can't come up with any better alternatives than PayPal. For simply and cheaply accepting credit card payments.

Killer features: no sign up cost, no monthly (yearly, whatever) fee, low transaction costs, works around the world, accepts all major credit cards, as well as other payment methods.

Only two disadvantages I can identify: buyers need to create an account (unless paying to an US business), and PayPal's...reputation.

Re:No Alternatives (2, Funny)

wolverine1999 (126497) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614798)

It doesn't work in every country of the world however. Even some EU countries aren't allowed to use it.

Re:No Alternatives (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614809)

``Even some EU countries aren't allowed to use it.''

Which ones? Are you sure these are not the ones serviced by PayPal Europe [paypal.com] ?

Re:No Alternatives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614935)

I live in Czech Republic (EU country) and I'm not allowed to create PayPal account. I wrote them and there are no plans to include our country anytime soon.

Re:No Alternatives (3, Interesting)

Synli (781075) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614963)


Which ones?

Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, etc. All are democratic EU countries and their residents cannot create PayPal accounts.

Re: Pay Pal Censorship (2, Interesting)

VidEdit (703021) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614831)

There is another very significant problem with Pay Pal. Pay Pal censors what you can buy and sell and has stated a policy that they will "fine" buyers or purchasers of "adult" items $500. The definition of whether an item meets PayPal's standards is decided solely by PayPal and its official censors, who will even go so far as to read through romance novels/erotic fiction to see whether they pass muster.

While PayPal may not yet be a monopoly, it could be. Right now PayPal is the 800 pound Gorilla of online payments. They have millions of dollars of float from customer accounts, issue a PayPal bank card and yet aren't regulated as a bank. They also will freeze a customer's account, including the funds, at the drop of a hat.

If PayPal is left unchecked as on line commerce continues to grow, it will threaten our ability to buy products without censorship and it will put our finances at risk in an un-regulated bank.

Re:No Alternatives (1)

TClevenger (252206) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614907)

Yahoo! PayDirect was the only good alternative I found... until they started charging me $5.00 a month for the mere privilege of having a PayDirect account. Needless to say, I cancelled shortly after that. I just don't do enough business.

Look just because (0, Troll)

Rares Marian (83629) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614756)

Paypal was going through some stability problems doesn't equate it to Microsoft which is a monopoly.

But really there's a ton of merchant accounts put there.

chicken banks (1)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614763)

Why didn't Yahoo or CitiBank sell their PayPal competitors to someone interested in the business? After the severe PayPal problems this Summer, like successful (though settled) class-action lawsuits and days-long outages, the market looks ripe for competition for the abusive PayPal monopoly. Without even those token competitors, the PayPal monopoly is not only stronger, but more complacent about abusing the market.

Bank of America Bill-Paying Service (2, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614799)

Bank of America's bill-paying service is still available. If the receiver has a BofA merchant account, the transfer occurs electronically. If not, BofA prints up a check and sends it.

I'd much rather get services like that from a legitimate commercial bank than some flakey service like PayPal.

Realistically, you don't want to send money to a "merchant" that can't qualify for a Visa/MC merchant account. I've run mail-order software sales out of my house, and I had a real merchant account from a major bank (not a reseller), a business license, a fictitious name filing, and a Dun and Bradstreet rating. All those things are easy to get. Someone who doesn't have them is probably doing something wrong.

Re:Bank of America Bill-Paying Service (1)

bob beta (778094) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614874)

Someone who doesn't have them is probably doing something wrong.

That 'someone' could simply be somebody who doesn't think like an accountant.

And lord knows we shouldn't allow anyone to do business unless they think like an accountant.

There's a certain rage one sees surface in somebody who has jumped through the hoops, in fact someone who spent a lot of time learning to jump through the hoops, when that somebody discovers that others do prefectly well without ever having to jump through those hoops.

Oy vey!!!!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614814)

Poor CitiJew, they will have to find another VALUABLE service to spam me with!!!! Valuable service, from his holiness, ye olde kike. Long live the niggerz!

Paypal alternatives (3, Informative)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614816)

http://www.ikobo.com/ [ikobo.com] allows online money wordwide transfer and gives you an ATM card to withdraw monies from ATMs all over the world. In contrast with PayPal, iKobo supports much more countries in EU and the rest of the world.

In addition, there is http://www.moneybookers.com/ [moneybookers.com] that also allows online money transfer and is based in UK and supports more countries than PayPal

What sucks is that both services want you to have a user ID before using them.

There is also Western Union that does online transfers but it is only for USA I think and their charges are high IMO.

Re:Paypal alternatives (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614848)

What sucks is that both services want you to have a user ID before using them.

Yeah, that really sucks, having to be accountable when sending and receiving MONEY and all.

Dumbass. Lack of user accountability is already killing eBay/PayPal. Without some form of ID traceability, the whole net might as well be a Romanian flea market.

Re:Paypal alternatives (1)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614869)

A name, address, credit card number, et cetera, are enough for accountability. There is no reason for these services to require username and passwords for sending money.

My problem is that it is difficult to receive donations from services that require the donor to have an account. It just sucks.

HSBC (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614829)

While being geeks with t1+ connections, lets seek hsbc's history eh?

paypal under investigation (3, Interesting)

cyberwave (695555) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614833)

http://paypalsucks.com/ They once withheld funds from me for over a month, and when I finally spoke to a real person at my expense, they would not help.

PayPal is horrible (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614837)

Read some horror stories from customers at PayPalSucks.com [paypalsucks.com] . Apparently PayPal can keep the balance in your account locked for 180 days if they deem your website "inappropriate." I don't trust them at all.

PayPal (1)

wikinerd (809585) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614841)

PayPal does not support many countries. My country, which is a member of EU, is not accepted by PayPal for money withdrawal. That's not good and PayPal should consider providing more support in EU, since most of their competitors do support my country.

Paypal? But not if you're gay. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10614846)

Seems that PayPal doesn't like gay sites. Not pr0n, just gay-relationship sites.

"Publisher says photo of bare-chested men prompted retaliation"
http://www.washblade.com/print.cfm?c ontent_id=4060

Thank god for money orders.

BidPay was a decent service... (1)

AtariKee (455870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614879)

...but they no longer accept Mastercard credit/debit cards. It's a shame, because I actually preferred them to Paypal.

Alternative: Yow Cow (1)

Modern Fix (631127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614900)

https://www.yowcow.com - I'm suprised nobody mentioned this, but it seems secure, works just as easily as paypal and they only charge a flat fee (I think .50) unlike PP, which charges a %. Worth checking out.

Paypal.... (1, Informative)

creaturespeaker (823981) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614928)

Almost all of the top power sellers on eBay use PayPal. In fact I have a guide to selling on eBay book and it says when selling on eBay, you should only accept PayPal because its the least problamatic. If PayPal was so bad then all these powersellers would not be using it. Its really easy to read a few horror stories and not get the big picture. Fact is, 99 percent of the people have had no issues with PayPal. Go look at the Better Business Bureau rating of Pay Pal and you will see that its rated very highly.

Free Flat Screen HERE! [freeflatscreens.com]

Also, The biggest compeition (1)

ninji (703783) | more than 9 years ago | (#10614950)

There are also other large competitors, with revenues rivaling that of even paypals, NetTeller Claims to be the largest, bigger then paypal, And as almost every online casino and poker parlor(ALOT of big revenue) accepts them as the default payment method, as well as many many adult sites, both markets which due to fraudlent activity, paypal isnt willing to touch (dosent allow its accounts to be used for such)...

Also, paypal makes very little profit margin on each transaction, The average client of net teller is gambling or using an adult site, both of which they want immediate access and immediate funds trasnfer, netteller charges 8% for immediate access to those funds, which is slightly larger then paypals fees.

While I suppose paypal might not consider them direct compeition, becuase they both cover

Also, there are independant and other company run sites like www.firepay.com, www.stormpay.com, ikobo.com, one of which was started by a friend of mine, I had even considered it when I was marketing merchant accounts....

While nobody will be able to beat out paypals brand nameing, providing compeition isnt the problem, although the companies that do mostly do so for goods and services paypal dosent cover so In that aspect, they arnt paypals competition, but in general money transfer business aspect, they compete very well by providing those services paypal won't, giving them that edge....

I dunno ranting on way too much, but yeah neteller's big too and firepay and others get alot of business from yeah what isaid before....
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