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The Official Launch of the Treo 650

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the and-lo-it-shall dept.

Communications 154

A whole slew of people sent us in links regarding the Treo 650. There's the official release from palmOne, with a new entry on their website. TreoCentral also has launch coverage, including a sample video and first impressions. Engadget also has coverage of the launch as well. Details are that the Treo 650 is an evolutionary upgrade to the Treo 600. palmOne made few external changes, but redid much of the internals. As with the 600 there will be a dualband CDMA 1xRTT and a quadband GSM/GPRS/EDGE version. The most notable new features are an improved 312 Mhz Intel PXA270 processor, a new 320x320 High resolution TFT screen, built in Bluetooth, non-volatile flash memory, a removable battery, and a new connector. Carriers, pricing, and availability are to be announced soon. Another reader notes that this ups the bar for mobile internet - and the last wonders if RIM has any good responses

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fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10619641)

fp!

Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (5, Informative)

jaaron (551839) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619659)

However, the Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth [oreillynet.com] :

TreoCentral is reporting that the Sprint version of the Treo 650 doesn't allow you to use Bluetooth for dial-up networking through your computer. Apparently other carriers will, but not Sprint.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1, Funny)

prtsoft (702850) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619694)

Looks like sprint has been taking Monopoly classes from our friends Microsoft.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

kaleco (801384) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619703)

Believe me, it's much better to use a data service such as GPRS to connect to the internet with your phone. It has completely displaced any interest in corporate wifi hotspots in my experience.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10619779)

You must have somebody paying for your data connection, or live outside the US or have a nice carrier. Checking Cingular, I have to pay $80/mo for unlimited data transmission - going to places
which offer WiFi are a whole lot cheaper than that...

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620343)

Wow, awful carrier. Both AT&T and T-Mobile have unlimited GPRS for $19.95 a month (in the U.S.). You may consider switching.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

PierceLabs (549351) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620461)

Well since the AT&T/Cingular merger went through perhaps only TMobile will have $19.95 GPRS in the future or the Cingular folks are about to get it at $19.95. In any case the AT&C future is somewhat cloudy on pricing/features.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

saha (615847) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620200)

As a Treo 180 user I user my university ISP dial up. Its very useful and best of all its free for me. I really do need a better Treo to get higher rez and color maps from Mapquest or connect it to my Powerbook via bluetooth as a wireless modem and I don't want to pay extra carrier fees.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (0, Offtopic)

Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619706)

I just posted about what's missing in the 650, but come early next year (I'll wait for hardware revision B... always do) I will pick one up regardless of the extreme pricing. But I will be leaving sprint for one reason: the crippled bluetooth, and choosing FIRST on a privider who does NOT cripple bluetooth. I'm guessing that means no Sprint and no Verizon here in NY.

Any experiecnes with bluetooth with prividers that was good or bad anyone?

P.S. Offtopic: that ashlee simpson SNL thing was too funny. What a dumb bitch.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

dextroz (808012) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619939)

In NYC - tmobile works beautifully...

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (2, Interesting)

Milican (58140) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619799)

Thanks for the info. I am a long time Sprint customer, but this "no bluetooth" policy is ridiculous. Like a good customer though I sent an e-mail to customer service using an online form. Its pretty easy to do. If you are a customer just login, click on "contact us" link, and then click "email us". If enough people send an e-mail maybe they will reverse their decision. Text of e-mail is below.

JOhn

---D-A-M-N--L-A-M-E--F-I-L-T-E-R---------------

I was very excited to see PalmOne release their new Treo 650. However, when I found out you guys are crippling the bluetooth option on the phone I was very disappointed. I have a laptop with bluetooth and it would be very nice to be able to sync my treo without using the bulky cradle (especially when travelling). In addition, I have been waiting patiently for a bluetooth phone so I can buy a bluetooth headset.

I'm really hoping you guys will reverse your "no bluetooth" option before my contract ends. If not I may end up going to a bluetooth friendly carrier. Good day.

JOhn

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (4, Informative)

miradu2000 (196048) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619846)

Syncing will work (It supports the serial profile AFAIK). PalmOne even made a wizard to make it easier to set that up. And headsets work, it's simply that it appears that the bluetooth dial-up-networking profile can be selectively turned on and off.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

phoxix (161744) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620645)

Does IR still work ?

Its not as easy as blue tooth. But when push comes to shove, IR still kicks it.

Sunny Dubey

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

IIskooterII (597091) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621129)

I am sure that as more web enabled phones come out for more providers they will get the hint and do the same thing Sprint is doing, protecting their investments. I have a feeling if not this product line then in the next version they will.

Re:Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (1)

ergie (683226) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621499)

Here is a good work around.

Get this http://web.palmone.com/products/Product.jhtml?id=4 10001&cat=310004 very nice cable about $24 and it will charge your phone from USB port power. Then get this http://www.junefabrics.com/palmnet/index.php it's a proxy software for the treo. ~$50 later you have a solution that lets you connect your laptop via the treo to the internet. Great for the roadwarriors, I use it all the time and it's fast. I used the Sprint card too and I say this is faster then the card.

What about Verizon? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10621677)

After what Verizon did to the V710, I would imagine they will whack Bluetooth also. Tethering (as using your BT phone as an internet connection is called) is problematic for wireless providers. You can use a lot more bandwidth that way than just by punching buttons on the face of the device. So they would typically have to charge for it as a separate service. But killing it completely? Inexcuseable.

It's funny, I went from Verizon to Sprint to get Bluetooth (S-E T608), now I would have to switch away to keep it? Anway, all this crippling is for the birds. Last January I worked extra hard to try to get Bluetooth without going to GSM, and now I'm going to GSM. I'm tired of the carriers deciding what features should be turned off on my phone. GSM fixes that for me. The bad GSM service (not to mention technical obsolescence) I'll guess I'll have to live with in order to get what I need.

Verizon and others too? (1)

jkheit (634306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621729)

Apparently Verizon crippled its first Bluetooth phone (Motorola v710). See here:

http://www.nuclearelephant.com/papers/v710.html [nuclearelephant.com]

The shady thing is that not all of Verizon's customer service agents are above board with this. When you call them and ask has Bluetooth been disabled and does it fully work, they say "no," which is technically true (there is minimal support for a headset, which "fully" works), but the customer gets a rude surprise when they order the phone and they cannot do a simple address book synch.

Apparently these carriers want to make more money selling you software to sync your address or make you pay for ringtones instead of using your MP3s--you know, things that Bluetooth was designed to help you do.

There is no doubt I will not buy the 650 if they cripple its Bluetooth on Verizon/Sprint or any other network (which is sad as Verizon seems to have the best coverage in the NY area). Although the techies will know, you have to think that the carriers basically can work in an oligopoly like manner and not care and just "coincidentally" all adopt a similar stance. Heck, I'm wishing for too much in them getting their act together on this issue when we still are generations behind Europe and Japan and can't get a simple flat-rate plan like we can for land-lines. The entire thing seems to run like the used-car industry.

It's about time! (4, Insightful)

lavar78 (573962) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619686)

Finally, a smartphone I can take seriously! Too bad it won't be affordable for another three years...

Re:It's about time! (1)

pixelpusher220 (529617) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620366)

a smartphone I can take seriously

Lets hope it's a better 'phone' than its predecessor.

When using a headset, the Treo 600 doesn't ring in your earpiece? Um hello, do these people not drive with a window open?

Vibrate Mode, I've had it on my belt and I still can't feel it well enough to ensure I'll get the call.

Built in Voice Memo recording - how is this not built into the phone by default.

Voice Activated dialing *and* phone answering, Treo 600 requires you to push a button to answer.

And *all* of these features were handled by the Kyocera 6035 almost 4 *years* ago. The Kyocera would actually ask "Incoming call, would you like to answer" and you could say "Yes" or "No". That's what I call hands free operation.

I own a Treo600 because it's a good fit size wise and it's a better combo unit than most others, but as a phone it leaves a LOT to be desired.


Higher resolution please.. (3, Interesting)

jaf (121858) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619688)

If we're to surf the web properly with these things, won't we need more than 320x240?

I'm looking at one of these:

HP iPAQ 4700 [bargainpda.com]

Look at the nice third photo. It lacks the phone of course, os it's not good enough.

Anyone know if running SkypeOut with one of these is a good idea?

Re:Higher resolution please.. (2)

Jaruzel (804522) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619770)

I've lost the URL, but The Register had a feature a few weeks back on the new PocketPC XDA replacements, all had hi-res screens, windows Mobile 2003,camera, and a pop out hard kayboard.

A bit larger than the treo granted, but a damn sight more useful.

Re:Higher resolution please.. (2)

Jaruzel (804522) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619796)

Ah here we go...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/10/vodafone _v pa_iii/

Re:Higher resolution please.. (2)

PDA_Boy (821746) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620373)

Haven't tried SkypeOut, but PocketSkype itself works perfectly with this machine. Microphone / speaker placement on the LOOX 720 is better, if you are planning on using VOIP a lot, however. Skype works well through a BT headset linked to either machine, too, so the shape of the LOOX might not be an advantage, if you do not mind having an earpiece in when you want to talk. The HP4700 is reviewed on WindowsMobile247 [clieuk.co.uk] , and there will be a review of the LOOX 720 posted soon.

What is still wrong. (4, Interesting)

Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619691)

I have to say I think for $550+ the Treo 650 is way overpriced. As a Palm fanboy, I feel sick with mistreatment. For that price, it is currently missing:

- 128 mb ram (at least!)
- voice recorder
- 802.11b

IMO... disgusting at that price. I have and love and setup TONS of Treo 600's, but seriosuly the price is nuts without the above. And to nitpick, IMO the Treo 650 should also have:

- not just bluetooth, but Class 1 (or is it class A) bluetooth with 100m range
- all 128 mb as non-volotile
- voice recorder to record the phone calls too
- easy setup to use device as a laptop modem for windows/mac with open spec to let Linux dudes knock up their own sw
- Camera Flash (even the lame ultra-bright led's actually can save the day with a photo in a very dark room, much better than nothing)
- Software to have web access auto-switch from carrier service to 802.11 when 802.11 becomes availbe, and back again when wifi disappears. Latest Pocket PC devices to this automatically.

Oh, and to REALLY bitch, but to make this thing perfect, add:

- Blackberry e-mail client

Re:What is still wrong. (2, Interesting)

RedX (71326) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619962)

I have to agree with you on most of your points. I carried a Treo 600 since it was released, until last week when I purchased the newest Pocket PC phone, the iMate PDA2k [clubimate.com] (aka XDA III) with the slide-out keyboard. The addition of higher-res screen, WiFi, and 128MB RAM gives it a big advantage over the Treo line in my book. Adjusting to the Windows Mobile platform from Palm is an adjustment as apps aren't quite as snappy. GPRS is also a bit slower than CDMA data, but having the ability to connect via WiFi automatically when it is available makes this moot for most of my day. This doesn't address your concern of expense however as this thing was even more expensive than the Treo. One of my biggest concerns was form factor, and it took about a day of carrying the slightly-larger (than Treo) PDA2k before it felt comfortable in my pocket.

Re:What is still wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620003)

It doesn't have Blackberry software, but it can run Goodlink which is better. You should have your IT department checkout Goodlink, you will love it.

Goodlink (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620477)

I actually use Goodlink at my workplace. Good is like RIM's Blackberry software, only comprehensible, updated more than once every two years, and doesn't require a 'cradle dance' just to provision the thing. Plug it in once, provision, walk away forever.

I frankly couldn't care less if RIM has a response to the Treo 650. Its software side is about a year behind Goodlink anyway. Blackberry wants me to believe that support for Outlook and Exchange 2003, and being able to actually use your Outlook calendar remotely is an 'amazing new feature' rather than 'expected behaviour'.

http://www.good.com/ for those interested.

Re:What is still wrong. (2, Informative)

bofkentucky (555107) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620093)

- voice recorder to record the phone calls too
Most jurisdiction's wiretap laws will not allow this, unless it emits an audible tone that the other party can hear to know they are being recorded.

I paid $800 for the 600 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620210)

I am not a US citisen and phone companies around aren't offering it.

Re:What is still wrong. (1)

saha (615847) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620277)

* 128 MB

I agree. At that price why not?
* Push email client

Goodlink
*Voice recorder

El'cheapo solution for me I use on my Treo 180. Call myself on my work voicemail and leave a message. Comes in handy when I'm driving and need to record a memo for myself.

Re:What is still wrong. (4, Informative)

mpmansell (118934) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620282)

My guess is that by the time it reaches my side of the pond, the '$' will have changed to '£', so I'd guess we'll still be spluttering too much with horror to give you too much sympathy :D

I agree with much of what you say, but must say that for the most part these design decisions are dictated by power levels. Even non-volatile ram will take more power though little, admitedly. 802.11 really is a no-no. Unlike the Palm based PDAs, a phone has constant variable power drains while it natters away with its network. That already causes a not inconsiderable drain. Adding WiFi will slup juice away so fast that the device would end up a useless expensive brick far more regularly than is useful.

The same for a camera flash. They kill even dedicated cameras. What would be of more practical use would be better light sensitivity and balance control. 640x480 is more than adequate for quick snaps if the quality is improved. You wouldn't have to torture me to accept better resolution, though :)

My company specialises in WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity products via telephones and this has taught me a lot about the two. That class 2 BT is used isn't such a bad thing. in fact, in many cases the low power/range class2 is better than class 1 because it reduces interference - this is seriously valuable where gazillions of sad buggers congregate with their phones - being one of those sad sods has taught me why low power is sometimes good!

Re:What is still wrong. (1)

dnoyeb (547705) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620308)

RAM and non-volatile memory, bka ROM serve 2 different purposes. They are not interchangeable.

First RAM is WAY faster than ROM. Second, ROM has a limited number of writes. If you use it like RAM its gonna die quickly. That is why Flash drives have a limited lifetime.

Re:What is still wrong. (2, Interesting)

DikSeaCup (767041) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620905)

I was going to get this, but it's missing the one feature I was really waiting for:

Playing an MP3 as a ringtone.

From the details on the website, this appears to play mp3s, but still has the lame ringtone thing. Perhaps this is an issue with the memory not being on board. But it sucks - I'd like to create an MP3 of a buddy of mine saying "PICK UP THE PHONE!" and set it as the ringtone for his number.

Memory (4, Interesting)

dncsky1530 (711564) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619693)

memory: 23MB user-available stored non-volatile memory (22MB multi-lingual)

the new Tungsten [palmone.com] has over 150 megs of memory while the new treo only has 23? for all the web surifng, emailing, and pictures that people will take, 23 megs doesn't sounds like nearly enough for internal memory that is. Still a really cool product.

Re:Memory (1)

ceeam (39911) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619722)

That's what flash cards are for. Quiz: how much internal memory do Nokia smartphones have? (Hint: It's a single digit number).

Re:Memory (2, Insightful)

pipetoawk (455329) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620161)

Agreed. I currently have a $100 1GB SD card in my Treo 600. I have no problem saving and using photos or mp3's on it, and I can even run applications off of it. Why pay extra for a big chunk of built-in memory when flash cards get cheaper all the time?

A hint, model in same price range has more! (1)

JollyFinn (267972) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620690)

Uhh. All I need to ask Which model!
When something has 8MB of SDRAM & 32MB of flash its not a signle digit number overall ;)
[Communicator]
20-25MB for 7700 Which is other which I'd consider similar...
30MB for 7600

Single digit number is for elcheapo consumer products, which are in different price category.
The Treo costs here /Finland. MORE than any of preciosly mentioned products. For which SOME of them has 64MB memory card INCLUDED in package ;)

What kind of "memory"? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620047)

23MB user-available stored non-volatile memory
What kind of memory? Battery-backed RAM? Flash? There are many types of NV memory.

It sounds like plenty to me, provided there's a slot for a flash memory card. 9 years ago I was doing image analysis and surfing the web on a Sun SPARCstation 10 with 16 MB of RAM. I have a hunch that the Treo's kernel is lighter weight than SunOS.

A work of art. (1)

echocharlie (715022) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619699)

Looks pretty sweet! According to this page [palmone.com] there's a removable battery, and a speakerphone. I've been holding off on buying a PDA phone, but this might be the model that makes it worthwhile for me to jump in.

RFI (1)

ceeam (39911) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619708)

IMHO, that may well be the future for Palms. So, the question now: in a magazine I've seen a shot of some new Samsung phone displaying... PalmOS launcher! Is it just a photo-editor's deed or Samsung really makes Palm-based phones too? Thanks.

Re:RFI (1)

mj01nir (153067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620017)

Samsung has made Palmphones for several years. I carry an i300, which is a generation or two old.

Re:RFI (2, Informative)

pdawerks (759885) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620040)

Samsung has made Palm OS phones for years. They are getting ready to release a new one. You can find out about it here http://www.pdalive.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&th readid=6913&highlight=samsung

Re:RFI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620247)

Nothing there. That's the name of the phone. I've had the i300 and now have the i500 and would love to see what they are coming out with next.

Re:RFI (1)

Seekerofknowledge (134616) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621251)

Basically he means the i550. It's an upgrade to the i500, but it has a few big changes (some better some worse).

As far as the link not working, Slashdot has a weird way of inserting spaces into the message when it's posted. Remove them from the URL that the grandparent posted and it will work.

Acronyms (5, Informative)

Pan T. Hose (707794) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619711)

"As with the 600 there will be a dualband CDMA 1xRTT and a quadband GSM/GPRS/EDGE version."

For anyone who doesn't understand the technical jargon, here's a handy explanation:

CDMA [wikipedia.org] -- Code Division Multiple Access, any use of any form of spread spectrum by multiple transmitters to send to the same receiver on the same frequency channel at the same time without harmful interference.
GSM [wikipedia.org] -- Global System for Mobile Communications, the most popular standard for mobile phones in the world.
GPRS [wikipedia.org] -- General Packet Radio Service, a digital mobile phone technology. It is considered as 2.5G, between the second and third generation. It provides moderate speed data transfer, by using unused TDMA channels GSM network.
EDGE [wikipedia.org] -- Enhanced Data Rates for Global Evolution, a digital mobile phone technology technology which acts as a bolt-on enhancement to 2G and 2.5G (a.k.a.GPRS) networks. This technology is compatible with TDMA and GSM networks. EDGE uses the same spectrum allocated for GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800 and GSM1900 operation.

Click the links for more info.

To editors: please provide at least some links to explain the terms you use in the story next time. Thanks.

Can you provide a link to a definition of PhD? (2, Funny)

thumper (95280) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619920)

Thanks.

Re:Can you provide a link to a definition of PhD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10619941)

Philosophiae Doctor

Re:Can you provide a link to a definition of PhD? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620102)


> Can you provide a link to a definition of PhD?

It means Doctor of Philosophy, from Latin Philosophiae Doctor.

See http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=PhD

Re:Can you provide a link to a definition of PhD? (2, Funny)

green pizza (159161) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620175)

Philosophiae Doctor (PhD)
(n.) A reclusive being possessing distinguished academic achievement and mental superiority; Generally found with an abundance of long gray facial hair and overall poor hygiene; To be highly skilled in one field, while totally inept at trivial common tasks.

MOD PARENT UP! :-) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620444)

LOL!!!!! You made me laugh because I happen to work on a PhD thesis right now and you described me with one exception: *black* facial hair instead of gray facial hair which is probably going to change when I finally have my degree, though. MOD PARENT UP!!! +5 FUNNY!!!! My God, this was a good one!!!

LOL!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620570)

Mod parent up: Score:5, Funny. hehhee!LOL!! :)

Re:Acronyms (1)

mpmansell (118934) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620349)

This is supposed to be "News for Nerds"! /. started off for a technically minded userbase.

These acronyms are common enough that real nerds really ought to know what they mean.

The editors really don't need to dumb things down for people who aren't the target audience :)

Re:Acronyms (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620482)

Yet somehow at least four people who currently have moderator points from this self-selecting, masturbatory high IQ litterati of the internet world felt this comment was informative to them.

Re:Acronyms (1)

mpmansell (118934) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621511)

Yet, somehow, you feel the need to post as a Coward

WOHO! (0, Redundant)

hitmark (640295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619714)

me wants, me wants!

if this isnt the future of phones then i dont know what is!

Obligatory (0, Redundant)

simgod (563459) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619726)

Does it run Linux?

tomtom (2, Interesting)

xabi (620010) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619729)

I'll buy it if tomtom [tomtom.com] runs on it! Any news about this?

Much needed (1)

ministry92 (54542) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619740)

Weather or not it is priced right, because it simply fixes many problems with the 600, the market will tolerate it. With HP's 6300 entry into the market, surly one will stand out much more than the other.

Macintosh system requirement: Windows (2, Interesting)

Chriscypher (409959) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619747)

"System Requirements
Macintosh
Windows 2000 or XP (later versions may also be supported) with USB port (USB HotSync® cable included)"

From the spec page:
http://www.palmone.com/us/products/smartpho nes/tre o650/details.epl

Sure it's a typo, but it's not comforting to see how little attention to detail they pay to cross-platform compatibility.

.

Re:Macintosh system requirement: Windows (1)

pkhuong (686673) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619854)

IIRC, Mac support is completely in Apple's hands :(

Re:Macintosh system requirement: Windows (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10621162)

If you look at the whitepaper, it says that Mac OS 10.2-10.3 is supported.

Dead Horses (2, Insightful)

prakslash (681585) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619758)

PDAs are dead.

Sadly, all these efforts to revive them are futile.

Cell phone are small and becoming more advanced. Lap-tops are powerful and becoming smaller.

PDAs are stuck in the middle. If they try to evolve in either direction, they end up becoming a cell phone or a lap-top. At $650 a pop, even a TREO 650 is too expensive for what it offers.

Most people who are serious about mobile computing and internetr-on-the-go will just buy a slim albeit expensive laptop.

Others who purchase cheaper, less powerful PDAs soon realize how cumbersome it is to use a PDA to just store some phone numbers and appointments when they can use their cell-phone to do the same. So, they end up leaving their PDAs in drawers at home collecting dust.

Like I said.. dead horses.

Re:Dead Horses (2, Insightful)

Turing Machine (144300) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619792)

At least for me, the PDA wins on two counts:

1) Bigger screen than a phone. I read novels on my PDA while waiting in line, on a plane, etc. I don't think I could do that on a phone with any degree of comfort, especially not since (as you say) they're getting smaller all the time.

2) My laptop won't fit in my pocket.

I agree that $650 is way too expensive for a PDA, though.

Re:Dead Horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10619935)

PDA do offer something that phones and laptops currently don't, which is power & convenience.

I use my Palm T2 to hold word document that I need to reference quickly, powerpoint slides that I want to be able to go through with a cup of coffee before the presentation. A whole load of pdf documents that are easy to read on a train. AvantGO is superb for a free newspaper. I have read a fair few e-books on it, it even plays MP3s which means I leave my iPod at home.

The screen is big enough to be easy , and yet the PDA small enough that it doesn't feel like humping a brick round. The PDA switches on instantly, power consumption is good. Bluetooth connection to my phone means I can download my e-mail pretty easily if I want to, and a slim fold out keyboard is great for taking notes at meetings, (I use the excellent mindmanager software for note, which syncs back with my laptop when I get back to the office). My T2 even syncs with the corporate LotusNotes, so I have all my meetings, to do lists, and work email on it - saving me from carrying my laptop to & from the office everyday.

My friend's iPaq even has WiFi which is great for checking news & emails over a coffee.

The Treo will bomb however - $650 way too expensive!! Twice the price of a pretty good phone & a pretty good PDA. If the price was nearer $200 dollars I would get one tomorrow - but until then I will stick with my trusty T2.

Re:Dead Horses (2, Insightful)

bullitB (447519) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619840)

...which is probably why this is being marketed as a smartphone, not a PDA with phone abilities.

Seriously, on the Treo 600, they replace all references in the software to "PDA" with "Phone." Compared to other expensive phones (P900, for example), it's actually somewhat price competitive, and has feature like a keyboard and a real SD slot which makes it really useful for stuff like text messaging (T9 sucks) and MP3 playing.

No you're missing the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10619944)

If you have web access as part of your cell plan then these phone/PDA combos are perfect. Have you ever tried to use the web on a regular cell?? Damn near impossible! I've been looking forward to finally getting a combo unit. Hopefully the prices on the Treo 600 will come down with the release of the 650

Re:Dead Horses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620191)

I believe the song is entitled, "Wild Horses." And those are definitely not the lyrics.

Awwjeah.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10619773)

I must say, after several months of fighting with the square-shaped screen on the 600, and the inability to carry around spare batteries, this new version is going to be my new best friend. I'm wondering what the two new buttons on the layout are, though. I'm assuming they're Bluetooth related.

The next question, however, is... can Blazer play flash files yet? Can I get StrongBad on my phone?

Ouch (1)

xnot (824277) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619787)

News at 11: "All Palm websites slashdotted! Entire Palm internet goes down! New record!"

Petition For Verizon To Get It Soon! (3, Informative)

datastalker (775227) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619831)

Since it took almost two years to get the Treo 600 on Verizon, and I've already spoken with my account rep who says Verizon has no plans for this phone, I've created a petition to have Verizon get this phone in a timely fashion. Please sign below:

Verizon Treo 650 Petition [petitiononline.com]
Thanks!

Ignoring Europe? (4, Interesting)

MemRaven (39601) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619867)

I used to live in the US, and got very used to my Palms (I've been using them for years, starting with a Handspring Visor through a Sony Clie), and I was just looking to upgrade my phone, and I ended up getting something that Wasn't The Treo. Why? Because even though I waited until the "official" announcement, and thus knew everything about it, I still don't have any idea when it'll be available here in the UK.

This is pretty lame. Here in Europe (at least in the UK) Palm Pilots and other PDAs don't have nearly as high penetration as in the US, because everybody's got their mobile with them at all times and doesn't want to carry around two devices. However, given past performance, the GSM Treo (which is a worldphone, so you can just buy it in the US and bring it on a plane here and it'll work perfectly with your local coverage) won't be available for several months at best, unlike in the US. Even now, although the Treo 650 is all over the US PalmOne site, it's nowhere to be found on the UK site.

This makes very little sense, given that the biggest competition for the Treo (namely the blackberry and the Sony Ericsson P910i) are available here as soon as the US, if not sooner. Moreover, the SIM-free (i.e. not tied to a particular provider) version of the Treo 600 is GBP525 ($966 at today's exchange rate) from PalmOne UK, while it's $349 from PalmOne US. This whole state of affairs leads me to believe that PalmOne just doesn't get it when it comes to Europe and the attractiveness of something like the Treo. Give it to us now!

Re:Ignoring Europe? (2, Insightful)

Raptor CK (10482) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620614)

I was under the impression that Orange was one of the first carriers in the world to get the Treo 600. Wouldn't that satisfy your UK requirement?

Re:Ignoring Europe? (2, Interesting)

MemRaven (39601) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620797)

It was was of the first to get the 600. However, that was still IIRC substantially after the first two carriers in the US (one CDMA, Sprint, the other one of the GSM providers) had theirs. Given the fact that even today you can basically only get the Treo 600 through Orange anyway, I would expect that you'd be able to get it through orange pretty quickly, but I still expect a couple of month lag between first customer ship in the US and first customer ship in the UK. Even today, it doesn't show up on the Orange web site (again, much like it doesn't show up on the PalmOne web site for the UK either).

My point is that the phone is basically almost ready, but given how much stuff happens over the next couple of months here, we'll get the phone so late as to miss the entire holiday season, which matters quite a bit. In other words, I have no doubt that we'll get it pretty early, but even a couple of month delay basically shows where the priorities lie.

Besides, Orange [orange.co.uk] blows. I actually specifically moved away from them when I made my recent purchase and really don't want to go back to them.

SE mobile phone (1)

kennycoder (788223) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619916)

It seem that Sony-Ericsson's hybrid phone-pda (P900 / P910) is more powerfull than Treo 650. I don't know about SE's CPU capabilities but _AS_ hybrid-phone it's much more usefull because of touchscreen and pretty imporoved Symbian OS. You can compare by yourself..
SE P910 [mobile-review.com]
Treo 650 [palmone.com]

awaiting for announce, device, support (1)

apla (745737) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619918)

good smartphone. must be. but i'm sceptic and not waiting soon this device. in russia/moscow. previous generation treo 600 avail in moscow in this september at $800. now it at least $750. cheaper price, huh. very good deal ;-)

now wating for support this device from apple, but also some scepticism: motorola GSM phones normally supported sync only from cable, but GPRS dial is available over bluetooth. what a good joke! my fujifilm s5000 camera supported only as usb-storage, but not a camera.

what about localization? see that english-only keyboard. most of devices/programs are developed without localization, and late this available via patches, hacks, some ugly stuff. good deal to one-language, english-speaking people.

O2? (0)

cuteseal (794590) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619940)

Wonder where the O2 sits with all this?

Ooops, just re-opened the Palm vs PocketPC debate did I? My bad... :)

No WiFi? (3, Informative)

Alexander (8916) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619949)

Engadget's reporting no WiFi via the SDIO slot. Frankly, for me, this is a deal breaker. The last thing in the world I want to do is move to a WinCE platform, but hotspots are becoming so ubiquitous that I can't help but require it.

I hate to be one to poo-poo new hardware releases, but they had since the 600 to get it right (in fact, early 600 boxes had "support for WiFi via 3rd party solutions written on them)..

I wonder if Palm has recruited Sun/Cobalt product management?

I like my 600 (2, Interesting)

xrayspx (13127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10619979)

A lot of people have been saying how expensive these are, but they're good for corporate IT. With an SSL + password protected site, I can see which of my servers are alive, pull webservers out, initiate restarts of the webserver, etc. They work pretty well actually. At least when you're not spending your own money :-)

I'd love to see Wifi portability, which some people have been rumoring.

Anyone know if you can use TuSSH to set up a tunnel? I'd like to SSH tunnel and then run the Terminal Services client over it. Yes I'm that masochistic. I've only had the 600 a couple weeks and haven't gotten around to bothering yet, but that would be another big plus.

No tunneling (1)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620462)

Palm runs one app at a time, so any SSH client is going to be running when you are using it and switching away stops the SSH client.

You would have to have a completely new animal, sort of a TSR kind of thing that would add a new networking layer. Since none of the SSH clients support this and most say it can't be done, I suspect it would be really, really hard. Hard enough that nobody thinks it is worthwhile.

Re:No tunneling (1)

xrayspx (13127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620938)

That's kind of what I thought, so I never tried. Oh well. It's still a good platform for my needs, I was just curious to see how painful trying to Term Serv to a machine from a phone with a teeny display over 1XRTT speeds would be. I guess speedwise it would be the same as our cellular laptop card, but at least with that you can see the whole remote display.

Nextel (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620019)

Would be nice to see Nextel get a nice smart phone besides crap like Blackberry..

Impressions of the RIM 7100t from a Palm user (4, Informative)

invisik (227250) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620095)

The RIM 7100t is a more fair comparison, IMHO. For $199 (after $100 rebate from T-Mobile) you get just about everything the Treo 650 does. I decided I couldn't wait for the 650 to come out so I got the 7100t (Actually, I could still return it if I wanted to). I'm a long time Palm user, and have used the Treo 600 before.

Some notes on my experience of the BB over the Palm:

-No camera. Business device people.
-Can do dial-up networking over USB and Bluetooth.
-Full one-handed operation. Somewhat clumsy at times, but you can get-r-done.
-Push e-mail. (isn't the 650 supposed to have this?) You don't have to buy the BB Enterprise Server software for just syncing e-mail, there's a "desktop" version.
-Software is made for syncing with corporate e-mail, no middle Palm Desktop stuff to break on you
-The new keyboard is not that bad after you use it for a week.
-Push e-mail can be delayed 10 or 15 minutes at times.
-I miss the Calendar Palm app, was much faster to enter an appt and pick the start and stop times.
-Form factor of the BB is pretty slim, fits easily in front pants pocket (older ones were way too big)
-Charges over USB cable, no extra power adapters needed (major plus)
-I miss the 4 dedicated PIM keys on the Palm. Alawys so much drilling in and out of the menus. BB has two blank spots where they could have had two user-assignable keys, that would have rocked. They have a dedicated Browser key and a dedicated Telephone key.
-Soud quality is good to excellent on headset and to the ear to both parties
-No bluetooth to PC sync. Can't imagine why.

All in all, as a business workhorse handset, I think the Blackberry 7100t at $199 is an excellent choice. It's not perfect, by any stretch, but is getting there. I suggest you test drive any of the units (including the SideKick II) at your local T-Mobile (or Cingular I suppose) store....

Questions?

-m

Re:Impressions of the RIM 7100t from a Palm user (1)

mulhall (301406) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621183)

A few points (I'm a treo 600 user)
-No camera. Business device people.
This is not a benefit, merely a lack of functionality.

-The new keyboard is not that bad after you use it for a week.
The keyboard is fine on the Treo

-Charges over USB cable, no extra power adapters needed (major plus)
I use the L'il Sync USB chrge/sync cable (~£5)

As mentioned in another thread the priority is: Treo gives applications, and email
BB gives email, plus applications.

Treo vs Sidekick/SideKick II (1)

daviddennis (10926) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621389)

Not a direct reply to your message, but I thought this might interest you and people who liked your post.

My Colour Sidekick's scroll wheel broke, and since I'm having problems with the carrier, I decided to look at the Treo versus the Sidekick. Of course the phone I saw was the 600, not the 650, but a lot of things don't seem to have changed much.

Overall, the Sidekick seems to have by far the better ergonomic design. The keyboard's big enough to type on decently, while the Treo 600's was way too small for my biggish fingers. They apparently changed this a bit with the 650, but frankly it doesn't appear from the pictures like it would make much difference.

The old Sidekick had clear build quality problems, culminating in the broken scroll wheel that forced me to contemplate a replacement. The new Sidekick is much better made, by a far higher quality manufacturer. But the Treo, with its metal chassis, had an almost jewel-like feel that easily carried the day.

The Treo 600's screen was truly awful, the worst thing about the device. This is one place where the new model is an obvious massive improvement. On the screen alone, I would definitely wait for the new model. That being said, with the small form factor and the keyboard being part of the raw size (instead of a foldout like the SideKick), the screen's still going to be tiny and that's still going to make web sites very difficult to read.

The camera on the Sidekick II was a bit confusing to use - I had to have the guy at the store tell me the secret - but seemed to take a decent picture in the light available at the store. The Treo's camera didn't work nearly as well, although none of them are going to be serious competition for my Canon EOS D30. The Treo 650's camera looked to be higher resolution but still pretty bad, I think worse than the Sidekick II's.

The Colour Sidekick II costs $299 to buy or $199 to upgrade from the old model. The Treo costs $450 with a Verizon signup but apparently the phone carrier will reduce that to around $350 if you scream and yell enough.

In the end, I had to side with the Sidekick II as by far the better device. Unfortunately, Verizon had by far the best phone service, so I may consider buying the Treo 650 at a later date.

So what did I do about my scroll wheel-impaired SideKick? I called up T-Mobile and they are sending me a free warranty replacement. I wanted to get a SideKick II if they'd given me a half-decent price on it, but the deal they offered was actually worse than the $199 upgrade deal I would have gotten at the T-Mobile store. This was interesting considering that the T-Mobile guy was positively embarassed he couldn't do better for me than the $199. I think it's a pity T-Mobile ignored an excellent opportunity to upgrade my machine and still make a few bucks instead of sending out one of their old models.

So for the time being, I'm back in the T-Mobile court. I'd be happy there if only the Sidekick's reception wasn't lousy ...

D

Treo vs. BlackBerry (4, Interesting)

Eric Giguere (42863) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620105)

Although it's always dangerous to generalize, I like to explain the differences between the Treo and the BlackBerry this way:

BlackBerry: email with applications
Treo: applications with email

You can build applications for both platforms, but the BlackBerry is still seen (and being used) primarily as a mobile email device. You can send and read email with the Treo, but you can run many more useful apps on it than on the BB. Which one is better? As usual, it depends on what you need...

Eric
BlackBerry development info [ericgiguere.com]

RIM? (1)

LookSharp (3864) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620125)

At work, we just started buying executives these:

http://www.blackberry.com/products/blackberry710 0/ blackberry7100r.shtml

They seem pretty cool...

RIM (1)

abureuben (622063) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620185)

Check the following for information about, at least a potential, response from RIM: http://mytreo.net/news/archives/000159.php#more Essentially, it looks like Sprint, Palm, and RIM have plans to allow RIM to run on a Sprint/PalmOS device.

RIM's got a pretty good response already. (0)

Doktor Memory (237313) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620190)

It's called: total market dominance.

I kinda doubt they're quaking in their boots over this.

PXA255? (1)

ccvqc (307904) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620299)

The Intel processor is "ARM Architecture v.5TE compliant" and also "include[s] Intel® Wireless MMX(TM) technology". I thought MMX was an IA-32 instruction set feature. And I thought Intel dropped their licensing agreement with ARM. Anybody got simple explanations?

Treo 650 STILL doesn't have roaming/dual band. (1)

shadowlight1 (77239) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620421)

I wanted to get a Treo 600 back in the day, and it was not dual band. Then I wanted to get a Treo 650 (through Sprint) and that was also not dual band. What this means is that it does not have analog roaming, so once you are out of the core Sprint network you have NO phone service. This is a problem because I travel a lot and sometimes am in remote locations in rural Wisconsin.

Samsung, apparently, has a Palm-based Treo 650-ish phone coming out in December that has dual band capability. I've been told to watch www.phonescoop.com for it. In the mean time, be sure to ask your provider if your Treo/other phone supports roaming before you make the investment!

CJF

Re:Treo 650 STILL doesn't have roaming/dual band. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10620602)

This would be a problem, but it isn't true. The Treo 600 has digital roaming outside of Sprint's network on any digital CDMA network. Verizon has a HUGE digital CDMA network. My Treo gets great phone service pretty much anywhere I've been. It is, however, annoying that 1xRTT data only works within Sprint coverage areas so there's no data while roaming.

--Matt

No Wifi (1)

mac123 (25118) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620464)

All that, and no built in wifi, no SD card wifi drivers in sight (and none under development)?

I'll pass.

What about Graffiti? (2, Funny)

lilmouse (310335) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620494)

Does it still support Graffiti? I haven't seen any comments about this anywhere.

--LWM

Bluetooth? (0)

cdrguru (88047) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620574)

OK, so the vendors are turning off Bluetooth. Why? Because they are mean? I don't believe so. Verizon has un-enabled their current Bluetooth phone from doing anything except using a headset or car kit. Why? Security.

Bluetooth hijacking was all over a while back. So now that is fixed, right? We have a new "Secure Bluetooth" that prevents all of those problems? I don't think so.

While Bluetooth might be handy for some things, having it full-on enabled in phones and PDAs is an open invite to hijackers and other folks to just come on by and steal. With a phone they might get just your phone book and call log. With a PDA unless you lock everything up they are going to get your life. And nobody I know locks everything up.

I think Bluetooth is an interesting idea, but it was designed in a security vacuum. Verizon does not want the customer support headaches from having it as a new gateway to problems.

Re:Bluetooth? (3, Informative)

mac123 (25118) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620634)

It has very little to do with security.

It has everything to do with making money from forcing the users to use the Verizon network to send their pictures.

Re:Bluetooth? (1)

drrjv (708816) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620668)

Verizon is disabling BT only to support their GIN vendors. It has nothing to do with security!

imap/s? (2, Interesting)

asv108 (141455) | more than 9 years ago | (#10620957)

Can anyone tell me if this will come with an imap/s client? I would have purchased the 600 when it came out but I refuse to pay $60 for an e-mail client on my palm. When I buy a $500+ phone I expect to be able to check my e-mail securely.

Re:imap/s? (1)

Tal0n (695067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621649)

RTFA Stay connected with wireless email using VersaMail.(1) VersaMail makes it easy to access and manage email on the go.(4) With the Treo 650's support for popular POP and IMAP email clients, users can download mail wirelessly or by synchronizing with their desktops.(5) And for users whose organizations use Microsoft Exchange Server 2003, the Treo 650's built-in Microsoft Exchange Server ActiveSync(R) support will enable direct corporate email and calendar synchronization(6) (see palmOne announcement dated Oct. 5). With VersaMail, users can view photos, HTML, and even native Microsoft Word, Excel and PowerPoint attachments.(7)

Camera resolution (1)

Anonymous Cowdog (154277) | more than 9 years ago | (#10621013)

For me the deal breaker with this one is the fact that they did not up the camera resolution. It will have better light gathering ability, which is sorely needed, but these days there's just no excuse to have the camera be only 0.3 megapixels. They should have added a 1+ megapixel camera, one, because this is a key feature most of us were looking forward to, and two, because it's a feature that the carriers have no great incentive to turn off.
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