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Communications Handhelds Upgrades Hardware IT

The Official Launch of the Treo 650 154

Posted by Hemos from the and-lo-it-shall dept.
A whole slew of people sent us in links regarding the Treo 650. There's the official release from palmOne, with a new entry on their website. TreoCentral also has launch coverage, including a sample video and first impressions. Engadget also has coverage of the launch as well. Details are that the Treo 650 is an evolutionary upgrade to the Treo 600. palmOne made few external changes, but redid much of the internals. As with the 600 there will be a dualband CDMA 1xRTT and a quadband GSM/GPRS/EDGE version. The most notable new features are an improved 312 Mhz Intel PXA270 processor, a new 320x320 High resolution TFT screen, built in Bluetooth, non-volatile flash memory, a removable battery, and a new connector. Carriers, pricing, and availability are to be announced soon. Another reader notes that this ups the bar for mobile internet - and the last wonders if RIM has any good responses
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The Official Launch of the Treo 650 More

The Official Launch of the Treo 650

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  • Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth (Score:5, Informative)

    by jaaron ( 551839 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @08:29AM (#10619659) Homepage
    However, the Sprint Treo has crippled bluetooth [oreillynet.com]:

    TreoCentral is reporting that the Sprint version of the Treo 650 doesn't allow you to use Bluetooth for dial-up networking through your computer. Apparently other carriers will, but not Sprint.
    • Looks like sprint has been taking Monopoly classes from our friends Microsoft.
    • Believe me, it's much better to use a data service such as GPRS to connect to the internet with your phone. It has completely displaced any interest in corporate wifi hotspots in my experience.
      • As a Treo 180 user I user my university ISP dial up. Its very useful and best of all its free for me. I really do need a better Treo to get higher rez and color maps from Mapquest or connect it to my Powerbook via bluetooth as a wireless modem and I don't want to pay extra carrier fees.
    • I just posted about what's missing in the 650, but come early next year (I'll wait for hardware revision B... always do) I will pick one up regardless of the extreme pricing. But I will be leaving sprint for one reason: the crippled bluetooth, and choosing FIRST on a privider who does NOT cripple bluetooth. I'm guessing that means no Sprint and no Verizon here in NY.

      Any experiecnes with bluetooth with prividers that was good or bad anyone?

      P.S. Offtopic: that ashlee simpson SNL thing was too funny. Wh
    • Thanks for the info. I am a long time Sprint customer, but this "no bluetooth" policy is ridiculous. Like a good customer though I sent an e-mail to customer service using an online form. Its pretty easy to do. If you are a customer just login, click on "contact us" link, and then click "email us". If enough people send an e-mail maybe they will reverse their decision. Text of e-mail is below.

      JOhn

      ---D-A-M-N--L-A-M-E--F-I-L-T-E-R---------------

      I was very excited to see PalmOne release their new Treo 6
    • Does IR still work ?

      Its not as easy as blue tooth. But when push comes to shove, IR still kicks it.

      Sunny Dubey
    • I am sure that as more web enabled phones come out for more providers they will get the hint and do the same thing Sprint is doing, protecting their investments. I have a feeling if not this product line then in the next version they will.
    • Here is a good work around.

      Get this http://web.palmone.com/products/Product.jhtml?id= 4 10001&cat=310004 very nice cable about $24 and it will charge your phone from USB port power. Then get this http://www.junefabrics.com/palmnet/index.php it's a proxy software for the treo. ~$50 later you have a solution that lets you connect your laptop via the treo to the internet. Great for the roadwarriors, I use it all the time and it's fast. I used the Sprint card too and I say this is faster then the card.

  • It's about time! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by lavar78 ( 573962 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @08:36AM (#10619686)
    Finally, a smartphone I can take seriously! Too bad it won't be affordable for another three years...
    • a smartphone I can take seriously

      Lets hope it's a better 'phone' than its predecessor.

      When using a headset, the Treo 600 doesn't ring in your earpiece? Um hello, do these people not drive with a window open?

      Vibrate Mode, I've had it on my belt and I still can't feel it well enough to ensure I'll get the call.

      Built in Voice Memo recording - how is this not built into the phone by default.

      Voice Activated dialing *and* phone answering, Treo 600 requires you to push a button to answer.

      And *all* of

  • Higher resolution please.. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jaf ( 121858 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @08:36AM (#10619688) Journal
    If we're to surf the web properly with these things, won't we need more than 320x240?

    I'm looking at one of these:

    HP iPAQ 4700 [bargainpda.com]

    Look at the nice third photo. It lacks the phone of course, os it's not good enough.

    Anyone know if running SkypeOut with one of these is a good idea?

  • What is still wrong. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Eric_Cartman_South_P ( 594330 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @08:36AM (#10619691)
    I have to say I think for $550+ the Treo 650 is way overpriced. As a Palm fanboy, I feel sick with mistreatment. For that price, it is currently missing:

    - 128 mb ram (at least!)
    - voice recorder
    - 802.11b

    IMO... disgusting at that price. I have and love and setup TONS of Treo 600's, but seriosuly the price is nuts without the above. And to nitpick, IMO the Treo 650 should also have:

    - not just bluetooth, but Class 1 (or is it class A) bluetooth with 100m range
    - all 128 mb as non-volotile
    - voice recorder to record the phone calls too
    - easy setup to use device as a laptop modem for windows/mac with open spec to let Linux dudes knock up their own sw
    - Camera Flash (even the lame ultra-bright led's actually can save the day with a photo in a very dark room, much better than nothing)
    - Software to have web access auto-switch from carrier service to 802.11 when 802.11 becomes availbe, and back again when wifi disappears. Latest Pocket PC devices to this automatically.

    Oh, and to REALLY bitch, but to make this thing perfect, add:

    - Blackberry e-mail client

    • Re:What is still wrong. (Score:3, Interesting)

      by RedX ( 71326 )
      I have to agree with you on most of your points. I carried a Treo 600 since it was released, until last week when I purchased the newest Pocket PC phone, the iMate PDA2k [clubimate.com] (aka XDA III) with the slide-out keyboard. The addition of higher-res screen, WiFi, and 128MB RAM gives it a big advantage over the Treo line in my book. Adjusting to the Windows Mobile platform from Palm is an adjustment as apps aren't quite as snappy. GPRS is also a bit slower than CDMA data, but having the ability to connect via WiFi
    • - voice recorder to record the phone calls too
      Most jurisdiction's wiretap laws will not allow this, unless it emits an audible tone that the other party can hear to know they are being recorded.
    • * 128 MB

      I agree. At that price why not?
      * Push email client

      Goodlink
      *Voice recorder

      El'cheapo solution for me I use on my Treo 180. Call myself on my work voicemail and leave a message. Comes in handy when I'm driving and need to record a memo for myself.

    • Re:What is still wrong. (Score:5, Informative)

      by mpmansell ( 118934 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @10:09AM (#10620282)
      My guess is that by the time it reaches my side of the pond, the '$' will have changed to '£', so I'd guess we'll still be spluttering too much with horror to give you too much sympathy :D

      I agree with much of what you say, but must say that for the most part these design decisions are dictated by power levels. Even non-volatile ram will take more power though little, admitedly. 802.11 really is a no-no. Unlike the Palm based PDAs, a phone has constant variable power drains while it natters away with its network. That already causes a not inconsiderable drain. Adding WiFi will slup juice away so fast that the device would end up a useless expensive brick far more regularly than is useful.

      The same for a camera flash. They kill even dedicated cameras. What would be of more practical use would be better light sensitivity and balance control. 640x480 is more than adequate for quick snaps if the quality is improved. You wouldn't have to torture me to accept better resolution, though :)

      My company specialises in WiFi and Bluetooth connectivity products via telephones and this has taught me a lot about the two. That class 2 BT is used isn't such a bad thing. in fact, in many cases the low power/range class2 is better than class 1 because it reduces interference - this is seriously valuable where gazillions of sad buggers congregate with their phones - being one of those sad sods has taught me why low power is sometimes good!
    • RAM and non-volatile memory, bka ROM serve 2 different purposes. They are not interchangeable.

      First RAM is WAY faster than ROM. Second, ROM has a limited number of writes. If you use it like RAM its gonna die quickly. That is why Flash drives have a limited lifetime.
    • I was going to get this, but it's missing the one feature I was really waiting for:

      Playing an MP3 as a ringtone.

      From the details on the website, this appears to play mp3s, but still has the lame ringtone thing. Perhaps this is an issue with the memory not being on board. But it sucks - I'd like to create an MP3 of a buddy of mine saying "PICK UP THE PHONE!" and set it as the ringtone for his number.

    • 802.11b

      Sweet merciful crap, who cares about wifi in a *PHONE*? What application are you running on your phone that requires more bandwidth than GPRS/3G?

      Is your goal to use VoIP over 802.11? Why? What real benefit does that provide over your regular freaking voice service?

      -Isaac

      • It is a phone, but it is also a PDA. Would you agree that 802.11b is cool in a PDA? I regularly run pssh from my TREO 600 http://www.sealiesoftware.com/pssh/. Is that an app that might qualify as needing 802.11b? I find it slow on the 600 but I wonder if the processor has something to do with that. Either way, a faster network is always something to take advantage of.

        BTW, I will buy the 650 the minute Sprint offers them. My wife is itching to get my 600 and I want a shiny new gadget.

  • Memory (Score:5, Interesting)

    by dncsky1530 ( 711564 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @08:37AM (#10619693) Homepage
    memory: 23MB user-available stored non-volatile memory (22MB multi-lingual)

    the new Tungsten [palmone.com] has over 150 megs of memory while the new treo only has 23? for all the web surifng, emailing, and pictures that people will take, 23 megs doesn't sounds like nearly enough for internal memory that is. Still a really cool product.
    • That's what flash cards are for. Quiz: how much internal memory do Nokia smartphones have? (Hint: It's a single digit number).

      • Re:Memory (Score:2, Insightful)

        by pipetoawk ( 455329 )
        Agreed. I currently have a $100 1GB SD card in my Treo 600. I have no problem saving and using photos or mp3's on it, and I can even run applications off of it. Why pay extra for a big chunk of built-in memory when flash cards get cheaper all the time?
      • Uhh. All I need to ask Which model!
        When something has 8MB of SDRAM & 32MB of flash its not a signle digit number overall ;)
        [Communicator]
        20-25MB for 7700 Which is other which I'd consider similar...
        30MB for 7600

        Single digit number is for elcheapo consumer products, which are in different price category.
        The Treo costs here /Finland. MORE than any of preciosly mentioned products. For which SOME of them has 64MB memory card INCLUDED in package ;)

    • What kind of "memory"? (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      23MB user-available stored non-volatile memory
      What kind of memory? Battery-backed RAM? Flash? There are many types of NV memory.

      It sounds like plenty to me, provided there's a slot for a flash memory card. 9 years ago I was doing image analysis and surfing the web on a Sun SPARCstation 10 with 16 MB of RAM. I have a hunch that the Treo's kernel is lighter weight than SunOS.
    • 22MB is incredibly pathetic. And the lack of 802.11b makes this device a non-starter. Looks like I'm stuck with a tungsten and a cellphone for another year or two.

  • Looks pretty sweet! According to this page [palmone.com] there's a removable battery, and a speakerphone. I've been holding off on buying a PDA phone, but this might be the model that makes it worthwhile for me to jump in.

  • RFI (Score:2)

    by ceeam ( 39911 )
    IMHO, that may well be the future for Palms. So, the question now: in a magazine I've seen a shot of some new Samsung phone displaying... PalmOS launcher! Is it just a photo-editor's deed or Samsung really makes Palm-based phones too? Thanks.
    • Samsung has made Palmphones for several years. I carry an i300, which is a generation or two old.

    • Re:RFI (Score:2, Informative)

      by pdawerks ( 759885 )
      Samsung has made Palm OS phones for years. They are getting ready to release a new one. You can find out about it here http://www.pdalive.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&th readid=6913&highlight=samsung
      • Stop being lazy and link your posts...

        Samsung SPH-i550 on PDALive [pdalive.com]
      • But they've only recently announced a model with bluetooth support.. and that's only for the european market.

        Samsung have such beautifully designed phones, I can't believe it's taken till late 2004 for them to add bluetooth connectivity.

        You can look at their new bluetooth model here: D500 [gsmarena.com]

  • Acronyms (Score:5, Informative)

    by Pan T. Hose ( 707794 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @08:41AM (#10619711) Homepage Journal
    "As with the 600 there will be a dualband CDMA 1xRTT and a quadband GSM/GPRS/EDGE version."

    For anyone who doesn't understand the technical jargon, here's a handy explanation:

    CDMA [wikipedia.org] -- Code Division Multiple Access, any use of any form of spread spectrum by multiple transmitters to send to the same receiver on the same frequency channel at the same time without harmful interference.
    GSM [wikipedia.org] -- Global System for Mobile Communications, the most popular standard for mobile phones in the world.
    GPRS [wikipedia.org] -- General Packet Radio Service, a digital mobile phone technology. It is considered as 2.5G, between the second and third generation. It provides moderate speed data transfer, by using unused TDMA channels GSM network.
    EDGE [wikipedia.org] -- Enhanced Data Rates for Global Evolution, a digital mobile phone technology technology which acts as a bolt-on enhancement to 2G and 2.5G (a.k.a.GPRS) networks. This technology is compatible with TDMA and GSM networks. EDGE uses the same spectrum allocated for GSM850, GSM900, GSM1800 and GSM1900 operation.

    Click the links for more info.

    To editors: please provide at least some links to explain the terms you use in the story next time. Thanks.
      • Philosophiae Doctor (PhD)
        (n.) A reclusive being possessing distinguished academic achievement and mental superiority; Generally found with an abundance of long gray facial hair and overall poor hygiene; To be highly skilled in one field, while totally inept at trivial common tasks.
    • This is supposed to be "News for Nerds"! /. started off for a technically minded userbase.

      These acronyms are common enough that real nerds really ought to know what they mean.

      The editors really don't need to dumb things down for people who aren't the target audience :)

      • Re:Acronyms (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Yet somehow at least four people who currently have moderator points from this self-selecting, masturbatory high IQ litterati of the internet world felt this comment was informative to them.

    • Re:Acronyms (Score:2, Informative)

      by macmouse ( 525453 ) *
      Or in practical terms (for those who are in the US).

      CDMA = Verizon and Sprint
      GSM/GPRS = T-mobile, Cingular, ATT Wireless
      EDGE = ATT/Cingular in few markets (so far).

  • WOHO! (Score:1, Redundant)

    by hitmark ( 640295 )
    me wants, me wants!

    if this isnt the future of phones then i dont know what is!

  • tomtom (Score:2, Interesting)

    by xabi ( 620010 )
    I'll buy it if tomtom [tomtom.com] runs on it! Any news about this?
  • Weather or not it is priced right, because it simply fixes many problems with the 600, the market will tolerate it. With HP's 6300 entry into the market, surly one will stand out much more than the other.
  • "System Requirements
    Macintosh
    Windows 2000 or XP (later versions may also be supported) with USB port (USB HotSync® cable included)"

    From the spec page:
    http://www.palmone.com/us/products/smartpho nes/tre o650/details.epl

    Sure it's a typo, but it's not comforting to see how little attention to detail they pay to cross-platform compatibility.

    .

  • Dead Horses (Score:2, Insightful)

    by prakslash ( 681585 )
    PDAs are dead.

    Sadly, all these efforts to revive them are futile.

    Cell phone are small and becoming more advanced. Lap-tops are powerful and becoming smaller.

    PDAs are stuck in the middle. If they try to evolve in either direction, they end up becoming a cell phone or a lap-top. At $650 a pop, even a TREO 650 is too expensive for what it offers.

    Most people who are serious about mobile computing and internetr-on-the-go will just buy a slim albeit expensive laptop.

    Others who purchase cheaper, less po

    • Re:Dead Horses (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Turing Machine ( 144300 )
      At least for me, the PDA wins on two counts:

      1) Bigger screen than a phone. I read novels on my PDA while waiting in line, on a plane, etc. I don't think I could do that on a phone with any degree of comfort, especially not since (as you say) they're getting smaller all the time.

      2) My laptop won't fit in my pocket.

      I agree that $650 is way too expensive for a PDA, though.

    • Re:Dead Horses (Score:3, Insightful)

      by bullitB ( 447519 )
      ...which is probably why this is being marketed as a smartphone, not a PDA with phone abilities.

      Seriously, on the Treo 600, they replace all references in the software to "PDA" with "Phone." Compared to other expensive phones (P900, for example), it's actually somewhat price competitive, and has feature like a keyboard and a real SD slot which makes it really useful for stuff like text messaging (T9 sucks) and MP3 playing.

  • Ouch (Score:1)

    by xnot ( 824277 )
    News at 11: "All Palm websites slashdotted! Entire Palm internet goes down! New record!"

  • Petition For Verizon To Get It Soon! (Score:4, Informative)

    by datastalker ( 775227 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @09:05AM (#10619831) Homepage
    Since it took almost two years to get the Treo 600 on Verizon, and I've already spoken with my account rep who says Verizon has no plans for this phone, I've created a petition to have Verizon get this phone in a timely fashion. Please sign below:

    Verizon Treo 650 Petition [petitiononline.com]
    Thanks!
    • Since it took almost two years to get the Treo 600 on Verizon, and I've already spoken with my account rep who says Verizon has no plans for this phone, I've created a petition to have Verizon get this phone in a timely fashion. Please sign below:

      The guy at the Verizon store here says they'll have 'em for Christmas buying.

      You'd think the 1xRTT model is for Verizon, but, well, let me know if you ever get a straight and reasoned answer out of Verzion.

  • Ignoring Europe? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by MemRaven ( 39601 ) <kirk.kirkwylie@com> on Monday October 25, 2004 @09:11AM (#10619867)

    I used to live in the US, and got very used to my Palms (I've been using them for years, starting with a Handspring Visor through a Sony Clie), and I was just looking to upgrade my phone, and I ended up getting something that Wasn't The Treo. Why? Because even though I waited until the "official" announcement, and thus knew everything about it, I still don't have any idea when it'll be available here in the UK.

    This is pretty lame. Here in Europe (at least in the UK) Palm Pilots and other PDAs don't have nearly as high penetration as in the US, because everybody's got their mobile with them at all times and doesn't want to carry around two devices. However, given past performance, the GSM Treo (which is a worldphone, so you can just buy it in the US and bring it on a plane here and it'll work perfectly with your local coverage) won't be available for several months at best, unlike in the US. Even now, although the Treo 650 is all over the US PalmOne site, it's nowhere to be found on the UK site.

    This makes very little sense, given that the biggest competition for the Treo (namely the blackberry and the Sony Ericsson P910i) are available here as soon as the US, if not sooner. Moreover, the SIM-free (i.e. not tied to a particular provider) version of the Treo 600 is GBP525 ($966 at today's exchange rate) from PalmOne UK, while it's $349 from PalmOne US. This whole state of affairs leads me to believe that PalmOne just doesn't get it when it comes to Europe and the attractiveness of something like the Treo. Give it to us now!

    • Re:Ignoring Europe? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Raptor CK ( 10482 )
      I was under the impression that Orange was one of the first carriers in the world to get the Treo 600. Wouldn't that satisfy your UK requirement?

      • Re:Ignoring Europe? (Score:3, Interesting)

        by MemRaven ( 39601 )

        It was was of the first to get the 600. However, that was still IIRC substantially after the first two carriers in the US (one CDMA, Sprint, the other one of the GSM providers) had theirs. Given the fact that even today you can basically only get the Treo 600 through Orange anyway, I would expect that you'd be able to get it through orange pretty quickly, but I still expect a couple of month lag between first customer ship in the US and first customer ship in the UK. Even today, it doesn't show up on the Or

        • Hrm. I thought Orange beat out Sprint, even.

          As for avoiding a provider because they blow, I know how you feel. The whole 650 Bluetooth fiasco has me prepared to ditch Sprint.
    • Moreover, the SIM-free (i.e. not tied to a particular provider) version of the Treo 600 is GBP525 ($966 at today's exchange rate) from PalmOne UK, while it's $349 from PalmOne US

      If only I were better capitalized ...
  • It seem that Sony-Ericsson's hybrid phone-pda (P900 / P910) is more powerfull than Treo 650. I don't know about SE's CPU capabilities but _AS_ hybrid-phone it's much more usefull because of touchscreen and pretty imporoved Symbian OS. You can compare by yourself..
    SE P910 [mobile-review.com]
    Treo 650 [palmone.com]
  • good smartphone. must be. but i'm sceptic and not waiting soon this device. in russia/moscow. previous generation treo 600 avail in moscow in this september at $800. now it at least $750. cheaper price, huh. very good deal ;-)

    now wating for support this device from apple, but also some scepticism: motorola GSM phones normally supported sync only from cable, but GPRS dial is available over bluetooth. what a good joke! my fujifilm s5000 camera supported only as usb-storage, but not a camera.

    what about local

  • No WiFi? (Score:4, Informative)

    by Alexander ( 8916 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @09:23AM (#10619949) Homepage
    Engadget's reporting no WiFi via the SDIO slot. Frankly, for me, this is a deal breaker. The last thing in the world I want to do is move to a WinCE platform, but hotspots are becoming so ubiquitous that I can't help but require it.

    I hate to be one to poo-poo new hardware releases, but they had since the 600 to get it right (in fact, early 600 boxes had "support for WiFi via 3rd party solutions written on them)..

    I wonder if Palm has recruited Sun/Cobalt product management?

  • I like my 600 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by xrayspx ( 13127 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @09:28AM (#10619979) Homepage
    A lot of people have been saying how expensive these are, but they're good for corporate IT. With an SSL + password protected site, I can see which of my servers are alive, pull webservers out, initiate restarts of the webserver, etc. They work pretty well actually. At least when you're not spending your own money :-)

    I'd love to see Wifi portability, which some people have been rumoring.

    Anyone know if you can use TuSSH to set up a tunnel? I'd like to SSH tunnel and then run the Terminal Services client over it. Yes I'm that masochistic. I've only had the 600 a couple weeks and haven't gotten around to bothering yet, but that would be another big plus.

    • Palm runs one app at a time, so any SSH client is going to be running when you are using it and switching away stops the SSH client.

      You would have to have a completely new animal, sort of a TSR kind of thing that would add a new networking layer. Since none of the SSH clients support this and most say it can't be done, I suspect it would be really, really hard. Hard enough that nobody thinks it is worthwhile.

      • That's kind of what I thought, so I never tried. Oh well. It's still a good platform for my needs, I was just curious to see how painful trying to Term Serv to a machine from a phone with a teeny display over 1XRTT speeds would be. I guess speedwise it would be the same as our cellular laptop card, but at least with that you can see the whole remote display.

  • Impressions of the RIM 7100t from a Palm user (Score:5, Informative)

    by invisik ( 227250 ) * on Monday October 25, 2004 @09:44AM (#10620095) Homepage
    The RIM 7100t is a more fair comparison, IMHO. For $199 (after $100 rebate from T-Mobile) you get just about everything the Treo 650 does. I decided I couldn't wait for the 650 to come out so I got the 7100t (Actually, I could still return it if I wanted to). I'm a long time Palm user, and have used the Treo 600 before.

    Some notes on my experience of the BB over the Palm:

    -No camera. Business device people.
    -Can do dial-up networking over USB and Bluetooth.
    -Full one-handed operation. Somewhat clumsy at times, but you can get-r-done.
    -Push e-mail. (isn't the 650 supposed to have this?) You don't have to buy the BB Enterprise Server software for just syncing e-mail, there's a "desktop" version.
    -Software is made for syncing with corporate e-mail, no middle Palm Desktop stuff to break on you
    -The new keyboard is not that bad after you use it for a week.
    -Push e-mail can be delayed 10 or 15 minutes at times.
    -I miss the Calendar Palm app, was much faster to enter an appt and pick the start and stop times.
    -Form factor of the BB is pretty slim, fits easily in front pants pocket (older ones were way too big)
    -Charges over USB cable, no extra power adapters needed (major plus)
    -I miss the 4 dedicated PIM keys on the Palm. Alawys so much drilling in and out of the menus. BB has two blank spots where they could have had two user-assignable keys, that would have rocked. They have a dedicated Browser key and a dedicated Telephone key.
    -Soud quality is good to excellent on headset and to the ear to both parties
    -No bluetooth to PC sync. Can't imagine why.

    All in all, as a business workhorse handset, I think the Blackberry 7100t at $199 is an excellent choice. It's not perfect, by any stretch, but is getting there. I suggest you test drive any of the units (including the SideKick II) at your local T-Mobile (or Cingular I suppose) store....

    Questions?

    -m
    • A few points (I'm a treo 600 user)
      -No camera. Business device people.
      This is not a benefit, merely a lack of functionality.

      -The new keyboard is not that bad after you use it for a week.
      The keyboard is fine on the Treo

      -Charges over USB cable, no extra power adapters needed (major plus)
      I use the L'il Sync USB chrge/sync cable (~£5)

      As mentioned in another thread the priority is: Treo gives applications, and email
      BB gives email, plus applications.
      • There are places where devices are confiscated on-site if they have a camera. Lacking of functionality is better than lacking the entire device
      • -No camera. Business device people.
        This is not a benefit, merely a lack of functionality.

        I supposed it depends on your point of view. Either way, I'm glad it doesn't have a camera. In a business device, I would rather space, weight, functionality and storage be used up by something more worthwhile then a camera or MP3 player.

        -The new keyboard is not that bad after you use it for a week.
        The keyboard is fine on the Treo

        I agree. I tried it briefly at the T-Mobile store. The 7100t has a new predictive in
    • Not a direct reply to your message, but I thought this might interest you and people who liked your post.

      My Colour Sidekick's scroll wheel broke, and since I'm having problems with the carrier, I decided to look at the Treo versus the Sidekick. Of course the phone I saw was the 600, not the 650, but a lot of things don't seem to have changed much.

      Overall, the Sidekick seems to have by far the better ergonomic design. The keyboard's big enough to type on decently, while the Treo 600's was way too small f
      • Hey there,

        Is this David Dennis of Amazing.com Silicon Graphics and diesel Mercedes fame?! It's Matt at Invisik.com! Remember me?

        Yes, I heard the SKII was better built, but the salespeople at the T-Mobile store say it's still not very sturdy. I still like the SKII and am always tempted to return my 7100t for it.

        I imagine the data entry in the SideKick must be very very fast. I mean no tapping the screen or scrolling the thumbwheel. What's your impression there?

        I hear the SKII has better reception an
        • Now moved on to the Mac and a 420SEL, but yes, same person :-).

          Data entry in the Sidekick is very good. It's much slower than a real keyboard, of course, but it's many times faster than trying to peck letters out on a phone keyboard.

          I belong to a political group that does street theater-style protests, and I've typed a few after-action reports on it successfully. It handles web forms exceptionally well.

          One thing I didn't say in the above review (because I forgot, more than anything) was that I tried we
    • I want a cell phone that I can use with a data service. T-Mobile and at least one other carrier have reasonable unlimited data plans for about $40/mo. I want to be able to view server status web pages and SSH in if there are problems.

      I know I can SSH within Palm OS via free software (VNC also), so what about SSH with this RIM device?

      My dream phone would let me use bluetooth to use the data service via my PowerBook also. I'm guess I'll have a hard time trying to find a phone where that works...
      • Hey,

        Word is the 7100t can provide GPRS internet service via Bluetooth, although not officially supported. I believe I saw a post on pdastreet.com about it in the RIM forum.

        The 7100t does not come with a SSH client, but you can add one for a monthly fee (the ssh service provider has to proxy you, thus the fee).

        The SideKick has a ssh client in it already, no extra charge, I believe.

        I think the speed of the connection will keep you away from it most of the time. But if you have to get something done, it

  • Treo vs. BlackBerry (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Eric Giguere ( 42863 ) on Monday October 25, 2004 @09:46AM (#10620105) Homepage Journal

    Although it's always dangerous to generalize, I like to explain the differences between the Treo and the BlackBerry this way:

    BlackBerry: email with applications
    Treo: applications with email

    You can build applications for both platforms, but the BlackBerry is still seen (and being used) primarily as a mobile email device. You can send and read email with the Treo, but you can run many more useful apps on it than on the BB. Which one is better? As usual, it depends on what you need...

    Eric
    BlackBerry development info [ericgiguere.com]
  • At work, we just started buying executives these:

    http://www.blackberry.com/products/blackberry710 0/ blackberry7100r.shtml

    They seem pretty cool...

  • Check the following for information about, at least a potential, response from RIM: http://mytreo.net/news/archives/000159.php#more Essentially, it looks like Sprint, Palm, and RIM have plans to allow RIM to run on a Sprint/PalmOS device.
  • It's called: total market dominance.

    I kinda doubt they're quaking in their boots over this.
  • The Intel processor is "ARM Architecture v.5TE compliant" and also "include[s] Intel® Wireless MMX(TM) technology". I thought MMX was an IA-32 instruction set feature. And I thought Intel dropped their licensing agreement with ARM. Anybody got simple explanations?
  • I wanted to get a Treo 600 back in the day, and it was not dual band. Then I wanted to get a Treo 650 (through Sprint) and that was also not dual band. What this means is that it does not have analog roaming, so once you are out of the core Sprint network you have NO phone service. This is a problem because I travel a lot and sometimes am in remote locations in rural Wisconsin.

    Samsung, apparently, has a Palm-based Treo 650-ish phone coming out in December that has dual band capability. I've been told to
  • All that, and no built in wifi, no SD card wifi drivers in sight (and none under development)?

    I'll pass.
  • Does it still support Graffiti? I haven't seen any comments about this anywhere.

    --LWM
  • OK, so the vendors are turning off Bluetooth. Why? Because they are mean? I don't believe so. Verizon has un-enabled their current Bluetooth phone from doing anything except using a headset or car kit. Why? Security.

    Bluetooth hijacking was all over a while back. So now that is fixed, right? We have a new "Secure Bluetooth" that prevents all of those problems? I don't think so.

    While Bluetooth might be handy for some things, having it full-on enabled in phones and PDAs is an open invite to hijackers

  • imap/s? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by asv108 ( 141455 ) <asv@@@ivoss...com> on Monday October 25, 2004 @11:23AM (#10620957) Homepage Journal
    Can anyone tell me if this will come with an imap/s client? I would have purchased the 600 when it came out but I refuse to pay $60 for an e-mail client on my palm. When I buy a $500+ phone I expect to be able to check my e-mail securely.
    • RTFA Stay connected with wireless email using VersaMail.(1) VersaMail makes it easy to access and manage email on the go.(4) With the Treo 650's support for popular POP and IMAP email clients, users can download mail wirelessly or by synchronizing with their desktops.(5) And for users whose organizations use Microsoft Exchange Server 2003, the Treo 650's built-in Microsoft Exchange Server ActiveSync(R) support will enable direct corporate email and calendar synchronization(6) (see palmOne announcement date

    • Re:imap/s? (Score:2, Informative)

      by icedivr ( 168266 )
      VersaMail is the default client that comes bundled with the new Treo. It supports IMAP but I couldn't tell if it supports SSL. But no matter, there is a program called ChatterMail (www.imchatter.com) which supports IMAP/S. Best of all, it supports running in the background in conjunction with the IDLE command. If your server supports it, delivery to the Treo is instant. It was well worth the $25.

    • Re:imap/s? (Score:3, Informative)

      by ozonator ( 178851 )
      The version of VersaMail that came with my T3 -- 2.6.1 -- can be used with IMAP/s. In the account setup screens, it's in the 'additional options' section, underneath the port number settings: "Use secure connection (SSL)". Having accessed a couple of accounts that way, I can report that it's worked fine for me.

      The new Treo seems to come with version 3.0 of VersaMail. I assume it has at least the same capabilities as the version I have, though the page about the Treo's version [palmone.com] says only that it can "ge
  • For me the deal breaker with this one is the fact that they did not up the camera resolution. It will have better light gathering ability, which is sorely needed, but these days there's just no excuse to have the camera be only 0.3 megapixels. They should have added a 1+ megapixel camera, one, because this is a key feature most of us were looking forward to, and two, because it's a feature that the carriers have no great incentive to turn off.
  • I had a Treo 600 for about two weeks, but the low resolution display drove me nuts and I ended up returning it. I paid almost $1000 (CAN) for it, so this new price doesn't seem unreasonable. Carriers will offer it for less with a contract.

    Now if they could just do away with the aging and fantastically craptastic PalmOS, I'd have something to get excited about.
  • Use this mature & free Voice Recording software, from Ryan Rife:

    SoundRec [infinityball.com]


    Thanks,
    Peter
  • If their software package requires Win2K or XP to run, does it run with Limited User support? [everything2.com] And without any goofy preinstall-for-each-user nonsense? Does the Hotsync manager work with fast user switching? [everything2.com] Last I checked, their software kit wouldn't work with either.

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