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What's Going On in Canada?

michael posted more than 9 years ago | from the glad-you-asked dept.

The Courts 592

Jack Action writes "Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk). You can visit the Commissioners website, and download a summary or the full report." And reader digity writes "The long-standing Canadian battle on grey-market satellite dishes took a surprising turn in a Quebec courtroom yesterday. The grounds: freedom of expression. Yet another reason to come to the Great White North!"

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592 comments

Porn Troll Satisfied!!! (0, Troll)

Porn Troll (822045) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671282)


Mary Ellen cleaned up the dishes and looked out in the back yard to see where the kids were. They were playing with a wiffle ball and bat. Do I have time? she thought as the pulsing down below continued. Making her decision, she hurried up to her bedroom, quickly closing the door and turning the lock. Suddenly, she felt so naughty. It was the middle of the morning.

As she passed the mirror on the back of the closet door she stopped. She was wearing a pair of baggy shorts and old shirt. A frown crossed her pretty face as she saw herself in a different light. She reached down and pulled her baggy shorts tight and turned so that her buttocks were facing the mirror. The shorts outlined her shapely rear, her panty line showing through. Maybe some new clothes would help! she thought as stared at the contours of her backside. Then she turned this way and that, bending slightly forward. She could feel her vagina continue to pulse with excitement. So Drew drools at this? she thought and a chill ran down her spine. On impulse, she pulled the seat of her shorts upward until the seam buried between her cheeks. "Ohhh!" she moaned when she felt the material touch her "there".

She bit her lip and she felt embarrassed as she looked at the drawer where she hid her pleasure devices. Making her decision, she rushed over and searched in the back, behind her underwear and various other "toys," to find the vibrator she had bought from a mail order catalog. It was long and tapered toward the end with a battery control device. There were rounded ridges up and down the shaft. The commercial said it was ideal for anal pleasure. It was!

Mary Ellen found some lubricant and rushed over to the bed. Her hands were trembling as she stripped off her clothes. She climbed onto the bed and got onto her hands and knees. When she looked back at the closet mirror she gasped. Her buttocks were pointed straight at the mirror and her tiny anal hole was almost pulsing between her cheeks. It was so obscene... but so exciting. Quickly she lubed up the shaft of the clear blue vibrator. Without touching her vagina, she placed the tip on her anus. A moan escaped her lips as she began to press the shaft into her tight hole. She pushed her hips backward and the long shaft began to slip into her.

"Oh Jesus," she moaned as the ridges bumped past her tight sphincter. Suddenly, she began to tremble all over and a vision of her handsome neighbor came into her mind. He was kneeling on the bed behind her and he had his long penis in his hand. It was huge with a large red head that was shining with his sex juice. "Do you want me to lube it?" he asked breathlessly in her fantasy.

"No, just fuck my ass! Please!"

Another groan escaped her lips as she pressed the vibrator deep into her anal canal. She pressed the button that made it squirm. Suddenly, she could feel it vibrating and twisting deep inside her. Her eyes closed tightly as she imagined Drew sliding his large penis into her virgin ass. "Ohhhhh God," she moaned as chills ran up and down her spine. She began to pump the long vibrator in and out between her spread ass cheeks as she spread her legs even wider. The tips of her naked breasts rubbed on the cover making her nipples swell with pleasure and sent ripples though her body. Suddenly every muscle in her body went stiff as waves of pleasure began to consume her. It felt like she might pass out as the long tip of the vibrator brought on spasms deep inside her bowels. It started with little shock waves in her stomach like it always did. Then they began to grow in strength until her entire groin was electrified and her anus pulsed, squeezing the invading tool. Her vagina pulsed as well and juice dripped to the bed. She squeezed her anal muscles on the squirming vibrator and her mouth opened as if to scream. Instead of screaming though, she bit her lip hard-the kids could be in the house now. She gasped and shook as a strong climax consumed her.

Finally, the satisfied woman fell exhaustedly to the bed. The long vibrator was still humming deep inside of her. As she lay gasping for breath, the twisting device began to slip out of her rear hole. Then, she heard the kids playing in the back yard and sighed contentedly. It was always the same when she had something up her rear. The climaxes were strong, almost earth shattering. However, in the after glow, like now, she always began to feel embarrassed and guilty. It was so against everything she had been taught. After all, she was a grown woman and for her to sneak into her room and do something like this... well, mothers didn't do that. Yet, she knew that she would do it again.

Mary Ellen had been very young when she first realized that she got a special thrill from her anus. It had happened almost by accident. She was masturbating with her fingers one time when she touched the tiny rear hole. It brought such a shock that she had to do it again. She felt nasty but still she pushed a finger inside. The feeling was so intense that she pulled it back out right away. She did it again, leaving it inside longer. Deep inside her, the muscles of her canal reacted, squeezing down onto the invading finger. At the same time, chills of pleasure like she had never known began to ripple through her. She began to move her finger in and out slowly, building speed until her hand was a blur. Within minutes her body began to tremble with an incredible climax. It went on for a long, long time until she collapsed onto the bed.

Over time Mary Ellen experimented with various means of pleasuring herself vaginally, but none equaled the times when she used her finger... or something else on her anus. She often thought that she was sick and that maybe she should see someone. However, she knew that she would be far too embarrassed to ever admit to a stranger that she loved paying with her anus. She would have to admit all of her little secrets. Like the times that she would go to the mall with Dana and walk around with those little vibrating balls up her butt. (Dana would certainly be shocked if she knew.) Or, how she fantasized about her ass being violated by a room full of men in a wild bacchanalia of anal pleasure.

The guilt that started long ago was still with her today as she lay on her bed in the afterglow of a very satisfying orgasm.

Re:Porn Troll Satisfied!!! (5, Funny)

HungSoLow (809760) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671330)

Interesting . . .

At least this post is on-topic by making a comparison between the patriot act and being f#$@%& in the ass. I would have given it +5 insightful given the chance... :-)

Re:Porn Troll Satisfied!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671386)

OMFG!!! I want more.

Haha, seriously, this guy admitted to trolling in his name, why can't we just mod him up and let the porn geeks fight to outdo him? We let the SuicideGirls post commercials on here, why not let the greatest fucking pervs that ever lived duke it out for +5 Erotic?

Mad-libs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671534)

Out of respect for this porn troll, i've taken it upon my self to create mad-libs from his porn.

Mary Ellen found some typewriters and rushed over to the potato chip factory. Her aardvarks were trembling as she stripped off her clothes. She climbed onto the potato chip factory and got onto her aardvarks and knees. When she looked back at the closet mirror she gasped. Her emus were pointed straight at the mirror and her tiny X-box was almost pulsing between her cheeks. It was so obscene... but so exciting. Quickly she lubed up the African American stereotype of the clear blue Imac. Without touching her tire, she placed the tip on her axle. A moan escaped her lips as she began to press the African American stereotype into her tight bank account. She pushed her hips backward and the long African American stereotype began to slip into her.

Typo in article headline (4, Insightful)

violet16 (700870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671290)

Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"

Re:Typo in article headline (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671409)

Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"

No. We're not allowed to discuss that by law. Sorry, we're not allowed to tell you which law.

Re:Typo in article headline (5, Interesting)

hype7 (239530) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671414)

you know there's something wrong in America [myway.com] when Bin Laden starts taunting Americans about the country's PATRIOT Act:

Bin Laden also said the Bush administration was like repressive Arab regimes "in that half of them are ruled by the military and the other half are ruled by the sons of kings and presidents."

He said the resemblance became clear when Bush's father was president and visited Arab countries.

"He wound up being impressed by the royal and military regimes and envied them for staying decades in their positions and embezzling the nation's money with no supervision," bin Laden said.

"He passed on tyranny and oppression to his son, and they called it the Patriot Act, under the pretext of fighting terror. Bush the father did well in placing his sons as governors and did not forget to pass on the expertise in fraud from the leaders of the (Mideast) region to Florida to use it in critical moments."


Obvious disclaimer: I in no way support terrorism, or even the use of force in conflicts unless there is no other alternative. I also consider Bin Laden a piece of shit, but that doesn't mean he hasn't got a point above.

-- james

Re:Typo in article headline (4, Informative)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671467)

Re:Typo in article headline (1)

Alsee (515537) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671578)

Thanx for the link, but are you sure that's the full transcript? I'm pretty sure the TV news said it was 18 minutes long, and that transcript works out to around 48 words per minute. If that's right then Bin Laden is about the slowest speaker on earth.

-

Re:Typo in article headline (2, Insightful)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671645)

I don't know if it's complete, but another one I found that appears to be a different translation has basically the same content:

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICL E_ ID=41192

And the video available for download on Al Jazeera's website was only about 5 minutes. I downloaded it, but didn't watch it because it had no subtitles. I had heard on the news that they provided the tape to Al Jazeera with english subtitles, but I didn't see them in the video.

http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/news_service/mi dd le_east_full_story.asp?service_id=5400
http://www .aljazeera.com/email1.asp

Go Bin Laden! (0, Troll)

SlashdotMeNow (799901) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671538)

He's my hero for standing up the US. When will the world realise that it does not have to take shit from the US?

Re:Go Bin Laden! (3, Interesting)

Curtman (556920) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671627)

When will the world realise that it does not have to take shit from the US?

When we realize we don't need shit from the US.

Re:Typo in article headline (5, Insightful)

Amiga Trombone (592952) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671433)

Shouldn't that be: "What's going on in the USA?"

What's going on in the USA is that we're in the process of forfeiting our economic dominance by screwing up our legal system such that doing business with American companies is becoming more of a pain in the ass than it's worth. It's not like there are many industries where we enjoy a monopoly any more, and these kind of laws are just further incentive for other countries to take their business elsewhere.

Re:Typo in article headline (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671637)

Well, it's a good thing you were nice to everyone on the way up... Oh, wait... D'OH!

Re:Typo in article headline (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671482)

You know the difference between Canadians and Americans, right?

Canadians think there is a difference ;)

DTV (3, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671291)

Let me be the first to congratulate Canada on now being able to watch free DirecTV again. While us americans get sued for buying card programmers.

Let freedom ring.

Re:DTV (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671605)

However, in order to protect Canadian culture, elements of the 103rd Shania Twain Clone Trooper Regiment have been placed on high alert status.

Re:DTV (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671629)

No, now Canadians can PAY for DirecTv - stealing is still stealing.

Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (0)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671298)

> has found that the USA Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk).

Citizens of USA ?. ... then they are Americans right ?. A citizen of Canada's patriotism shouldn't affect US of A's well being ?.
(exceptions will be citizens of Vietnam, Laos and Iraq).

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (5, Informative)

TheOnlyJuztyn (813918) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671313)

The wording is kind of funny... The issue we had with the Patriot Act in BC is that various loopholes allow for the FBI/CIA/Secret Service/[insert conspiracy here] to obtain records and data on Canadian citizens working for US owned companies in B.C.. As well, (as far as I know) certain stipulations of the Patriot Act make it somehow illegal for these companies to tell their employees that they are being probed. Obviously, this is something most Canadians would object to. It's also something most Americans should be objecting to, but I guess it's the price you pay for 'Freedom'.

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (1)

Alsee (515537) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671587)

certain stipulations of the Patriot Act make it somehow illegal for these companies to tell their employees that they are being probed.

In related news, Canadian sales of Preparation-H have mysteriously tripled.

-

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (1)

tunah (530328) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671318)

Citizens of canada, who's data is managed by a company that outsourced the job to the USA. At least that's what I got from the summary.

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671336)

Ok, to clarify all these strangely worded pieces of posts.
Its private data about canadian citizens being outsourced to a US company and under the patriot act our private information could be accessed.

well thats not much better but closer.

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (1)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671352)

You forgot the first sentance:

Up in Canada, the Privacy Commissioner of the province of British Columbia is recommending an immediate freeze on all outsourcing of public data to US-connected firms, Reuters and the CBC are reporting. After extensive consultations, the Privacy Commissioner

No he didn't forget the first sentence (1)

israfil_kamana (262477) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671437)

The fact that a Canadian firm has a US parent doesn't excuse that company from giving away data entrusted to it by any Canadian government to any other firm or government not authorized to receive it by the same Canadian government.

That's called espionage and treason, baby...

Cheers.

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (3, Insightful)

Goosey (654680) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671403)

Typical to automatically assume the word citizen refers to American Citizens. The wording is a little off, but it is pretty clear they are referring to Canadian Citizens working for US-Owned corperations.

Re:Citizens of USA aren't americans ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671455)

Yes. USA people are non-americans.

That's simple logic: Canada is in America, just as Venezuela, Panama, Brazil and Mexico are, too.

These, as everybody who has attended an USA school knows, are non-American countries.

USA is also in America (mind you, its complete name is United States of America, for those who live on Mars).

Therefore, USA folks are non-americans. CQD.

Oh Canada (2, Interesting)

TheOnlyJuztyn (813918) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671299)

The grass is always greener...

Re:Oh Canada (5, Informative)

Grey Ninja (739021) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671316)

As a Canadian, I have to say that in many many ways, I never want to leave my country. The only reasons I could possibly have for going to the US are for work related reasons, or to visit a special someone. I don't really have any desire to leave Canada, as our country is actually a fair bit saner in my experience.

So no, I wouldn't say that the grass is always greener. :)

Re:Oh Canada (3, Interesting)

connorbd (151811) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671411)

Y'all make secession from the US to the Great White North awfully tempting...

I'm actually surprised Canada would have a law like the satellite dish law on the books to begin with. And hopefully with the amount of cross-border business done between the US and Canada the checkbook will do what the activists couldn't to the Patriot Act.

Re:Oh Canada (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671586)

The law was officially to maintain Canadian content laws in the face of new technology. (Not always a bad thing when you're sleeping with a lovable but huge cultural elephant that likes to hog the blankets.) In application there are all sorts of stupidities like cable not carrying the WB 49 station that I can get with rabbit ears.

Re:Oh Canada (0)

lav-chan (815252) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671597)

You might be surprised about a lot of Canadian laws, then. People's television habits aren't (or... weren't, now, i guess) the only things the Canadian government restricts. They also tell you what you can and can't say [justice.gc.ca] , what kind of insurance [hc-sc.gc.ca] you're entitled to purchase with your own money, and what commercials about prescription drugs are entitled to say [healthyskepticism.org] , for example.


Not to say that Canada isn't a great country, because i think it is. But it isn't the model of libertarianism a lot of critics of the PATRIOT Act make it out to be.

The naked truth about canada (3, Interesting)

poptones (653660) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671608)

The best parts of it are the strip bars. Don't know what it's like now but 20 years ago we used to go up there just to spend the evening at Jason's or the Latin Quarter because the women were incredibly naked and incredibly beautiful and the exchage rate made it cheaper per dance or drink than going to an american bar right across the border. Walk down the street at 2AM and you could find old people out strolling or eating at a sidewalk cafe. And they have that great healthcare system and a penal system that seems to genuinely be about reform rather than revenge.

Don't want to leave canada? Just wait until a couple more generations get raised on that violent american TV you're so eager to import. Detroit is right across the river and, unlike the beer sellers at tiger stadium, the people who sell black market guns don't give a shit where you're from.

I do think making it illegal for someone to "import" american tv into their own home is absurd. Nice to see one government is figuring out prohibition never works. But no matter how stupid the law it's easy to see the motivation for it.

Better legalize that profitable black market drug trade before the culture shift moves in. The gunsellers are waiting...

Not so fast... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671320)

Everything I know about Canada I learned from watching Ren and Stimpy.

Re:Not so fast... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671362)

Not from south park?

Re:Oh Canada (1)

mindstormpt (728974) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671340)

... except in the US

Re:Oh Canada (-1, Flamebait)

Zareste (761710) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671442)

Nah, the grass there is pretty brown. It might be nice if your were born there and told to like the place, but I'd rather stick around here where the grass really IS greener and isn't required to sprout in French.

Re:Oh Canada (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671566)

Our grass is still green. And so are the lawns.

stupid FUD article (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671329)

- the sky is falling!

- the Patriot Act endangers everyone!

- it's OK to be a terrorist!

- you have everything to fear, including fear itself!

Re:stupid FUD article (4, Insightful)

l3v1 (787564) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671383)

Hey, it's your right to live in a country which the rest of the world increasingly sees as the evil big brother. It's your right, to accept all it comes with it. And it's your right to call the article FUD-spreading. And it's my right to say you're one of those stupid AC's.

I just don't like a world where every sw developer who writes 2 lines of code needs to have bad dreams and his purse ready because some US big boy may come down on him at dawn. Where 2 friends can't share their stuff because some US or US-licking association could long for their money or threaten them otherwise. Where one can't copy an officially bought disk and give it to the little sister. Where my personal and communicational data can be freely snooped by US or US-licking agencies. Where for some words or a bad day and a sweating face one can be held for hours on a US/UK airport. Where one has to smile and finger the device (pun intended) like an ordinary criminal to enter a free country.

I won't go on, I'm picky this morning.

Re:stupid FUD article (2, Insightful)

Zareste (761710) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671432)

I'm tired of correcting people. Okay fine, living in a country where you can be drafted, abducted, silenced, spied on and imprisoned by the government whenever a politician feels like it is freedom. It was your choice to be born in the US and its your right to have the government's fist up your ass.

Also you get to say FUD! Neat, huh? That makes you more free than an Afghan prisoner.

Re:stupid FUD article (1)

The Original Yama (454111) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671505)

It was your choice to be born in the US


How can someone choose where they themselves are born?

Re:stupid FUD article (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671542)

You're not very good at detecting sarcasm, are you ?

Quick fact check (1)

Goosey (654680) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671418)

- the sky is falling!
Nope, that is not technically possible.

- the Patriot Act endangers everyone!
Nope. Big brother doesn't endanger himself, he endangers others to protect himself.

- it's OK to be a terrorist!
Nope.

- you have everything to fear, including fear itself!
Yep!

In summary I think your bullets are slightly innacurrate, although you nailed the 'be afraid' part. It is scary out there!!

U.S. Fading as center of business world? (5, Insightful)

ntxb229 (542609) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671334)

Is it me or does it seem like the US is quickly losing it's place as the center of the business world? This seems especially true in the technology sector where anytime a company does something they have to look over their backs for some other company sitting on a patent, or a DMCA violation claim coming their way. This just seems like one more for the pile of reasons to do your business outside the U.S.

Probably... (5, Interesting)

Benm78 (646948) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671410)

The US is no longer considered the ideal place for many types of businesses, and anti-american sentiments are definitely growing in europe and asia.

With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.

Canada has put in a nice document with recommendations what most of the world already knows and acts on.

Re:Probably... (5, Insightful)

MeanSolutions (218078) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671480)

The US is no longer considered the ideal place for many types of businesses, and anti-american sentiments are definitely growing in europe and asia.

And for good reasons. I know I'll be taunted and modded down by the bible bashing extreme right wingers (and supporters) for saying this, but to quote Michael Moore, spreading democracy through the barrel of a gun rarely works.

But I digress. From a business perspective, patent and copyright systems in the US is broken and are not working as intended. The efforts to force these broken systems upon the rest of the world (to protect american companies and interests) is not going down to well. The US is being seen as the spoilt brat that when things doesn't go its way, it throws all the toys out of the pram.

Over time, if the attitude and behaviour of the US increases in hostility, the US will find itself more and more isolated and possible facing sanctions or trade embargoes. Before you mod me down as a troll, take a second to listen to me and try and comprehend what I am saying.

The US people have got to realise that the words 'compromise' and 'diplomacy' will get them a lot further in a medium/long term perspective than 'aggression' and 'shock and awe tactics' will. A level playing field, a little more understanding and less of the arrogance and favouritism currently in place will quickly change the perception of the US, and hence there will be little reason for other countries to put things in place like Canada has done.

With more and more privacy-invading legislation being installed, the US will rapidly become unusable to any business that has trade secrets to protect, or deals with private customer data.

It is the same with UK and companies that trade in EMEA. UK has, due to its policies of mimicking US, been deemed unsuitable to store encryption keys in. Other european countries have saner laws and subsequently been deemed as more suitable to be the location where said keys are stored.

The laws that are being passed in UK and US to prevent terrorism have little or nothing to do with preventing terrorism and everything to do with installing a police state as a precursor to some form of dictatorship. Sorry if that view offends, but that is what it looks like from here...

Re:Probably... (5, Insightful)

Alsee (515537) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671643)

The US people have got to realise that the words 'compromise' and 'diplomacy' will get them a lot further

Actually most "US people" do realize that. The problem is that as far as "Intellectual Property" laws and various treaties the people are entirely oblivious to what is going on. And as for Iraq and the 'War on Terrorism', a great many people have been deceived [pipa.org] and believe we *have* had compromise and diplomacy and honest relations with the world. Many Americans are under the mistaken impression that most of the world (and our allies) generally support Bush and the US's invasion of Iraq and our terrorism efforts, or that world oppinion is at least neutral. Most Americans have no idea how badly Bush has alienated out allies and ruined our global relationships and support.

Some Americans do realize the problem and are attempting a local "regime change" in this election, other Americans have been deceived, but then of course there are also a small number of nutjobs. For example that report was posted on Free Reublic website (radical right-wing nutjobs) and naturally those loons somehow managed to rationalize global opposition as a GOOD thing. Yeahhhhh... those evil Norwegians only show 7% Bush support because they are jealous and want a "weak America". Sigh.

I'm more horrified at the huge number of people who have been decieved and may elect the next president than the small number of wackos.

-

Re:U.S. Fading as center of business world? (4, Interesting)

luvirini (753157) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671593)

It is not only you..

I am currently involved in a startup in Dubai of all places. When orginally planning where to set up things, quite many places were considered, but in the end this place won.

The reasons for coming here were:
-Low regulations, but still holding contracts.
-Very low extra costs for labor above wages.
-Good availability to labor, with pragmatic immigration policy for getting emplyees from abroard.
-Working infrastructure.
-Low taxes
-Easy incorporation
-Low crime rate

In the end it basically came down to having a reasonable place with not too much bullshit and a place where we can concentrate on the thing we do... unlike Europe or US...

Every time US chumps boast about "Free Speech" (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671337)

i have to say HAH! it seems the only thing you get to be free about is having porn in libraries. seriously kids, do something about it. your country doesn't deserve to be so shit.

Good going to Canada (5, Insightful)

boringgit (721801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671344)

As a UK citizen, the US government has decided that it has a right to collect any information about me that it chooses, from any agency in the UK (because we are Americas lap dog and would never dream of saying no), and then use that info as it sees fit. My data is not protected in any way because I am not a US citizen.

Nice to see that Canada has the balls to stand up the the USA.

Re:Good going to Canada (1)

pjt33 (739471) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671388)

The worst thing about it is that it's against EU and UK law. The outgoing European Commission is just as bad, though.

This is because Canada has the bomb! (2, Insightful)

el_gibler (807201) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671394)

and unlike the UK they aren't afraid to use it. Bloody Tony Blair is so far up the Yanks arse he can tickle their tonsils. To Canada I salute you!

Re: Good going to Canada (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671463)

My data is not protected in any way because I am not a US citizen.

I see, and it is if you are a US citizen?

Freedom starts with saying "no".

Re: Good going to Canada (1)

boringgit (721801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671507)

You can vote for someone else.

If there is nobody better, you can stand for election yourself.

I can't influence US policy, well, not legally, and not in a positive direction.

Re:Good going to Canada (1)

jsebrech (525647) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671478)

You should at least have a legal avenue if you can prove it happens, because unless there is an explicit permit to export personal data, it is in violation of the EU data protection laws (which should be british law soon, if they aren't already). That's the whole reason they made such a big deal about the extra data the US wanted for in-bound travellers from europe.

transparent hypocrisy (1)

poptones (653660) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671636)

so the UK is going to pass these "privacy" laws to bar corporations from exchanging data that people willingly provide to them?

I wonder what they're going to do with those laws requiring ISPs to keep detailed logs for years.

Well isn't that some grand consolation? Even if you do have the government fishing through logs in search of wankers looking at kinderpix or anything else it might find objectionable it's ok, because you, at least, don't have to worry about Yahoo selling your email address.

Yeesh.

Wrong about the UK (4, Informative)

horza (87255) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671588)

Anyone storing data about you must conform to the Data Protection Act [hmso.gov.uk] , where it explicitly states "it is immaterial that it is intended to be so processed or to form part of such a system only after being transferred to a country or territory outside the European Economic Area". Your data IS protected because you are a UK citizen. The Data Protection Registrar takes any breaches very seriously and can be contacted via their web site [informatio...ner.gov.uk] .

Phillip.

Re:Wrong about the UK (5, Insightful)

Triskele (711795) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671633)

LOL! Do you really thing the DPR will act against the USA. It's simple: the US has told the UK that it will bar entry to flights from the UK and UK citizens for whom full data records are not handed over. In the interest, of course, of 'security' and 'prevention of terrorism'. The US is starting to make the old USSR look enlightened in its entry requirements.

Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (4, Insightful)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671346)

Can anyone explain me why that is necessary in the 1st place?

I assume this would be fairly common practice for some uses of that data, but basically: if you want to do anything with data, why not do it on-site? If some off-shore company was hired to process millions of government-held records, wouldn't the safest way be to let that company only produce software for that purpose, and 'apply' that software locally?

Can anyone give some compelling reasons why you would move that data itself (knowing that it's privacy-sensitive)? BTW: With 'off-shore' I mean any third party relative to the data involved.

Re:Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (1)

boringgit (721801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671368)

Because government agencies tend to be over beurocratic. An IT project which would cost £100,000 and take 6 months to implement and troubleshoot in a private company, will cost £500,000 and take 2 years in a government agency.

If an outsourcer charges the government £200,000 the taxpayers are still saving £300,000 over what it would have cost them otherwise.

Trouble is, the outsorcing company then finds that they can save x% by moving to wherever. This would be because they can make use of economies of scale and tie in with another project, or use cheaper labour, or get tax breaks etc..

Re:Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (5, Insightful)

icejai (214906) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671456)

It has nothing to do with where the data is actually stored.

Case and point.

Up here, Royal Bank of Canada's credit card business is outsourced to a U.S. firm. Because of this setup, this U.S. credit card firm has to give up RBC customer data to government officials if they use the Patriot Act to get at it.

http://canadaeast.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= /2 0041002/TTMONEY08/210020513/-1/MONEY

So, let's say (hypothetically) that the scenario is flipped around. So instead of RBC outsourcing to the U.S., we're talking about Chase Manhattan, and they've outsourced their credit card business to RBC. I think it'd be pretty safe to say that credit card data would still be accessible to the U.S. government through the Patriot Act.

I think this would be the case for any company that incorporates in the states, no matter where their head office or data is.

Re:Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (1)

boringgit (721801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671500)

OK,

If the US government wanted data about a US citizen, which was held by a non US company under an outsourcing arrangement, it is perfectly acceptable for them to do so.

Using your hypothetical situation though, Imagine the outcry if the Canadian government was to access information on a US citizen held by RBC as part of an outsorcing deal.

In the UK we have the data protection act. This tells me that I must give my consent for any information to be stored about me, and that it can only be used for the purpose for which I have given permission. I have the right to view, and correct where appropriate, any info. When I sign up for a credit card, I have to give my consent to a credit search, the act of conducting this searc will be stored. I also have to give my consent to some of my details being used to fight fraud. That doesn't include sharing it with the US government.

I don't care where this info is stored, as long as the country where it is stored honours the Data Protection act which protects it. If they don't, then the data should not be stored there.

Re:Why move privacy-sensitive data offsite anyway? (1)

someme2 (670523) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671590)

If some off-shore company was hired to process millions of government-held records, wouldn't the safest way be to let that company only produce software for that purpose, and 'apply' that software locally?

Can anyone give some compelling reasons why you would move that data itself (knowing that it's privacy-sensitive)?

Because "applying the software" is a process that requires manual interaction and is repeated constantly. It's not something that is done once and then it's over. The data will also be poorly formatted in parts and may need heavy reformatting. So, it requires people (all of the time until no more data is coming in or the world runs dry) - hence outsourcing.

Outsourcing the operation of software systems (aka "business process outsourcing") is a common thing.

This makes sense to me (5, Funny)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671358)

In a world where Echelon is used for international corporate espionage, and where we've declared war on any country that we think is harboring terrorists, then why should anyone's privacy be protected?

Those damned pinko Canadians may be terrorists, and we need to protect ourselves.

Tin Foil (4, Funny)

chrome (3506) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671360)

Its ok, I have my tin foil hat. It keeps the government microwaves from reading my brain patterns.

Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally? I mean, sure, it means they can do this stuff more in the open, but that doesn't mean that they weren't doing it before anyway.

The US Government has been the biggest customer of high-end computing firms for the past fourty years. What do they do with all that computing power? They use a lot of it to churn through the data we create. Not to look for ciminals, or mass murderers, or whatever - no - to look for people that could challenge the status quo, that could expose the real people behind the governments of the last fifty years who control the American people.

Come on, you've seen the X-Files! Its all real! ALL of it! NON FICTION, I tell you!

Are you ready to believe? TRUST NO ONE!

Re:Tin Foil (1)

ntxb229 (542609) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671376)

You make a good point but i'm not sure i can trust you

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671389)

No, I was too busy letting you fart all in my face.

Re:Tin Foil (5, Insightful)

reddish (646830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671425)

Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally?

It allows it to do bad things legally. Any other questions?

Re:Tin Foil (2, Interesting)

phobos13013 (813040) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671492)

sure, it means they can do this stuff more in the open, but that doesn't mean that they weren't doing it before anyway

Ohhhhhhh, they were doing it before _anyway_. That makes it ok then right? So see that is the purpose of dissent and citizen action. You oppose it when its illegal and you oppose it when its legal. Just because it IS legal, doesnt make it right. Which is becoming the ways of many many laws in the US.

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671524)

Seriously folks, what does the patriot act allow the US government to do that it wasn't able to do before, just illegally?

By that "logic", the indescriminate slaughter of elderly U.S. citizens could be written into law. After all, it was illegal before; why not just codify it?

Asshat.

Re:Tin Foil (5, Insightful)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671570)

First of all, entrenching formerly illegal actions into law is NOT a good thing. The fact that they were being done before isn't a valid reason at all to make them legal.

Secondly, this law allows the US government to compel American companies operating in foreign countries to secretly hand over information on foreign employees, in violation of that country's laws. THAT'S why BC is raising the red flag on this one.

And in other news... (5, Funny)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671366)

Firms in India are setting up shop in Canada as a front for their offshoring operations. Our confidential information that crosses in to Canada ends up in India. Canada's confidential data that crosses in to the United States ends up in... well, probably India.

Folks, we're witnessing a major coup. In the century where Information is Power, all of the information is going to one country - India! India is the new world power.

Re:And in other news... (1)

Alsee (515537) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671584)

I, for one, welcome our new information hoarding Indian overlords.

-

Don't Like This? Hit 'em where it hurts. (4, Interesting)

Cordath (581672) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671371)

I found out that my Bank Visa card is vulnerable to this sort of crap because they've outsourced data management to an american firm. Guess what card just got the scissor treatment?

If enough Canadians who value their privacy take similar action we might see some amendments to the patriot act introduced. Fighting terrorism, etc. has been, and always will, be of secondary importance to the american government. It's business that really matters to them, and we're one of the few nations on Earth that do enough trade with the U.S. to place an effective ammount of pressure on them to do away with laws that compromise the privacy of citizens from other countries. At the very least we can pressure them into modifying the patriot act so that it only effects U.S. citizens. After all, did we elect Bush?

Okay okay... We don't really know who or *if* Bush was elected, but we damned well know it wasn't us who did it!

Re:Don't Like This? Hit 'em where it hurts. (1)

Rebel_Princess (717142) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671526)

Christ, our (Americas) best hope for policy reform lies in other countries being outraged at said policies?

Re:Don't Like This? Hit 'em where it hurts. (2, Insightful)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671575)

Pretty much. Sadly, your country doesn't seem to be doing much to fix those policies.

oh funny story :( (5, Interesting)

jeckil (633197) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671378)

Patriot Act threatens the private data of citizens even if they don't live in the USA (repeat: non-Americans are at risk).
Tell that to us (Mexico) a u.s. intelligence branch, illegally obtained/purchased the entire Mexican voter registration database about a year ago.... still with that many infomation floating around i think they'l look at it till 2179 :P

Re:oh funny story :( (2, Funny)

boringgit (721801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671387)

Illegal?

Naah!

The Patriot act says that it is fine - They are protecting themselves from Terrorism you know!

Re:oh funny story :( (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671468)

It could be worse. They could sell it to spammers as a set of "millions" CDs.

Oh Canada! (5, Funny)

dupper (470576) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671384)

All right! Time for our turn for blind patriotism. We've got free health care, we've got real (ie, not just lip service) equality (racial, sexual orientation, &c), we have effective 3rd parties (debatably leading to accountable government), we don't have Bush, we won't have Kerry, and we do have nearly-legal weed.

And, just to piss off some neocon Bush babies who hate our freedom even more: remeber, we're half French!

Ô Canada!
Terre de nos aïeux,
Ton front est ceint de fleurons glorieux!
Car ton bras sait porter l'épée,
Il sait porter la croix!
Ton histoire est une épopée
Des plus brillants exploits.
Et ta valeur, de foi trempée,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits,
Protégera nos foyers et nos droits!

Whoo! Aaaaargoooos!! Strike, Leafs, strike!!!

Re:Oh Canada! (1, Flamebait)

Zareste (761710) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671401)

and we do have nearly-legal weed

Blah blah this explains everything blah blah blah..

Re:Oh Canada! (1)

zpok (604055) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671622)

It might.

Oh, sorry, I get it, you try to be dismissive of those "liberal" quality of life and freedom things. Right. Oh well.

Meanwhile the world laughs at the fact that your voting system is under more scrutiny than most banana republics.

Re:Oh Canada! (1)

Zareste (761710) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671646)

If the low ghettos of Pakistan is your idea of 'the world' then I guess that's your education system at work. So while your knowledge of the 'outside' is naught, hey at least you've got your smokes.

(for everyone else: This isn't directed at all Canadians, just the individual stupid ones)

Re:Oh Canada! (1)

swordgeek (112599) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671558)

Heh. Just the sort of thing I needed to read at 6:00am, on another damned insomniac night.

Cheers, eh!

Not only data going to the US.. (4, Insightful)

luvirini (753157) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671390)

You have to remember that this threat is present in any transmission of data to countires with different laws than yours.

Like take for example the case of medical data going o subcontractors in india, that data is handled unde r their (nearly nonexistant) laws in that regard.

The fact is, for some sort of data to be protected in todays world, you have to make sure not only of making laws on the data protection, but also put in proper limits of where it can be handled.

The European union Personal data directives try to make rules on this, forbidding transfer of such data outside EU.

Too bad they caved in to US pressure on airtrafic part of it...

Re:Not only data going to the US.. (4, Interesting)

tuxette (731067) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671413)

The European union Personal data directives try to make rules on this, forbidding transfer of such data outside EU.

This is not entirely true. According to the EU Data Protection Directive [cdt.org] , in order for data to be transferred out of the EU/EEA to third countries, the country in question has to have "adequate level of protection," cf article 25. Adequacy is determined by various factors such as existing data protection legislation and professional rules and security measures in relation to the type and sensitivity of the data being transferred.

Re:Not only data going to the US.. (1)

luvirini (753157) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671422)

I concede that point.. :) But that only reinforces my point about having to also think of where data is prosessed when you limit what to do with data... and they have obviously done that..

US and European worries. (4, Informative)

Teun (17872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671560)

the country in question has to have "adequate level of protection"

Sounds good but commissioner Bolkestein considered the US statements about data protection sufficient.
For this great feat he has just earned himself the Dutch Big Brother Award for 2004.
See Bits of Freedom [www.bof.nl] .

The European Parliament has called on the European Court of Justice to declare the agreement null and void, a ruling by the Court can at the earliest be expected by next year.

As a Canadian.... (5, Funny)

jason ward (581483) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671397)

I for one welcome our new pro-privacy overlords!

WAR!! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671441)

What a shame, I always thought the USA would start the war with Canada! Now they are just askin for it...

!!

Re:WAR!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671493)

What a shame, I always thought the USA would start the war with Canada! Now they are just askin for it...

The United States has been at war with Canada since 1812. Sure there was a cease fire and an arbitration, but IIRC there was never an official treaty.

Re:WAR!! (1)

AndroidCat (229562) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671550)

but IIRC there was never an official treaty.

So the Treaty of Ghent doesn't count?

Preventing what Amdocs and Comverse did to the USA (5, Funny)

Sara Chan (138144) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671444)

In the USA, many directory-assistance and billing records are processed for the phone companies by Amdocs, an Israeli-based private telecommunications company. Amdocs has contracts with the 25 biggest phone companies in America.

The power that this gives is huge. (Does some senior politician have a mistress or do private business with a drug dealer?--Amdocs has the information. Etc. And Slashdotters are surely familiar with data mining.) Many people have claimed that this power has been abused by the Israeli government--in particular, by Mossad--and such power obviously facilitates espionage. Whatever abuses have occurred, it seems insane to give this much power to a foreign agency.

For references and links to more information (there's lots, and it's downright scary), google for "Amdocs" and "Comverse Infosys" [google.com] .

Police can use IR for surveillance here though (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10671458)

Not everything is peachy here when it comes to privacy. Yesterday our Supreme Court ruled [www.cbc.ca] that the police can use infra-red devices without a warrant to view heat radiation coming from a home.

It's mainly used by the police to look for marijuana grow-ops. I just hope the police chopper flying overhead isn't watching my heat signature as I'm taking a dump or viewing internet pr0n. :-) The Court's full decision is here [umontreal.ca] .

There is a lot more to this that just this ... (2, Interesting)

Lanhdanan (676256) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671462)

This is something we should all, in Canada, fight to prevent. In the case of US firms or US citizens, Canadians shouldnt have a right to tell the US how to dictact its policy, but when it comes to Canadian citizens, the US should keep its nose out of where its not wanted. Another thing that irks me, is that this sort of information sharing between countries has been going on for a long long time. Most countries do not have a 'patriot act' to allow blantant civil rights abuses [ie: No privacy for John and Jane Doe .. irregarless if they bear reason for investigation or not.] Counrties frequently monitor other countries information transactions, and then sell them back to the country of origin. Its a way for them to circumnavigate around privacy laws and legislation. If you are outraged about this, then do something about it. But remember, this is WAY deeper than what you think, and I can bet that if you have ever had a phone conversation where your speaking about a game that includes the words bomb, kill, or president, your name has come up in a database and your calls monitored ... just long enough to verify if your a legitimate threat, or just some gamer with an over-active imagination.

Probably also a problem for UK firms... (2, Interesting)

26199 (577806) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671501)

Since the UK has stricter rules than the US (the Data Protection Act), US firms handling data from the UK have to agree to follow them. (A "safe harbour agreement"). If the Patriot Act means they can't guarantee to follow the rules... then no UK company can legally send data to America.

This would extend to any data at all in which a person is uniquely identifiable...

Re:Probably also a problem for UK firms... (1)

boringgit (721801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671513)

Bet we bend over the first time there is a serious challenge though :(

Canada Vs. America: Rights of it's Citizens (5, Interesting)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10671536)

From the summary: All levels of government in Canada must ensure that their laws are consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and that their policies and actions do not off end Charter protections. Several submissions suggested that putting British Columbians' personal information at risk of seizure under the USA Patriot Act might confl ict with privacy protection under the Charter. While we do not analyze this question, we acknowledge that Canadian courts require Charter values and rights to be considered in interpreting legislation such as BC's FOIPPA.

So I decided to look up this charter, and I found it. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms [justice.gc.ca] , which goes to unusual lengths to tell the world that French and English are it's official languages.

Then I decided to look for the US Bill of Rights, which is located not on a website with the words "law" and "justice" in the URL, but rather on "archives.gov" and what I'm reading is a Transcript of the Bill of Rights [archives.gov] , as if it's chronicling an event and not informing me of my rights.

And I noticed the transcript of the Fifth Amendment: No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger , and I contrasted it with Canada's charter: 9. Everyone has the right not to be arbitrarily detained or imprisoned. 10. Everyone has the right on arrest or detention a) to be informed promptly of the reasons therefor; b) to retain and instruct counsel without delay and to be informed of that right; and c) to have the validity of the detention determined by way of habeas corpus and to be released if the detention is not lawful. Period, end of sentance, no "except."

Is America more interested in the history of it's laws than in the current reality? Are we, under the Patriot Act, in a constant state of "public danger" and therefore subject to being held, as I've heard people have been, without being told the crime they're being held for, with no court date, and no trial. What a strange, and convoluted time we live in that we are in a constant state of being the exception and not the rule.
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