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135 comments

DIMMness (5, Funny)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717515)

blaiming [sic]

is there a vast sea of bad DIMMs out there?

Maybe so, the HP Compaq laptop I'm typing on had 1G of RAM replaced several months back.

As for slashdot editting, though, the memory isn't the only thing DIMM.

Re:DIMMness (2, Funny)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717667)

As for slashdot editting

As for post editing, you're a hypocrite.

Re:DIMMness (1)

DAldredge (2353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717912)

He doesn't get paid to be an editor. They do.

Re:DIMMness (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717740)

One other thing that is DIMM - your reading comprehension skills. The editors didn't write that, TheSync did. But good attempt at karma whoring - bashing the editors is usually quite effective for that task.

Re:DIMMness (1)

bhtooefr (649901) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717812)

Ah, but the goal of an editor is to edit. samzenpus didn't edit.

Re:DIMMness (1)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717875)

As for slashdot editting, though

Look on the positive side, they correctly used "raises the question" instead of "begs the question".

Spelling 0
Grammar 1

Re:DIMMness (1)

PoopJuggler (688445) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717914)

It's a perfectly cromulent word...

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717521)

this first post claimed for the Wyndham Crew of CMU.

Re:FP (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717637)

see em you is teh sux

The question (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717531)

Which raises the question, is there a vast sea of bad DIMMs out there?

Yes.... er, no... er, maybe?

HP or Dell? (1)

HaeMaker (221642) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717539)

Link about Dell goes to a story about HP...

Re:HP or Dell? (1)

timts (766509) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719344)

it's just generic RAM, I dont think it's a big deal since DIMM or SoDIMM isnot so expensive.

Your Dell link is off (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717540)

It was HP in June.

Eh... not everything is an epidemic. (-1, Troll)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717543)

Really, get over yourself.

"The SKY IS FALLING omg!!"

In other news, (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717556)

I am recalling a GOAT.

blaiming (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717559)

Learn to spell guys. WTF is blaim?

Re:blaiming (4, Funny)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717610)

It's the distant, and not-so-shiny cousin of 'bling.' Blaim was discovered by a scientist that accidentally blew up his lab by mixing certain combustible chemicals. As the smoke cleared, the lab supervisor came running to find out what happened. Luckily, nobody was hurt. When he asked the scientist how the explosion happened, he was told that one of the janitors must have knocked over a beaker...or something...

And blaim, or 'blame' as we call it in English, was born.

Re:blaiming (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718481)

Funny. I thought blaim came from bleary aim - the inability of a tired or drunk man to hit the toilet bowl.

As urination is not a nice thing to be on the recieving end of, the expression "Don't blaim me!" was born.

Or something like that.

Re:blaiming (2, Funny)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718591)

Excellent. One day, when I'm good and drunk, I'll tell that story and it will be hilarious. At least, to me..because I'll be drunk...

A Vast Sea (4, Interesting)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717560)

Yes, and it's found using Pricewatch, Google, and other product search engines. Not all cheap RAM is bad, but you're a lot more likely to get something crappy if you go with the lowest bidder. Those prices are low for a lot of reasons, including support, warranty, and quality. I've bought my share of low-priced memory through Pricewatch, and I've also had to return several of them. Never buy memory that doesn't have a lifetime warranty.

I'm sure Toshiba and Dell didn't buy their memory through Pricewatch (that'd be a hell of an order) but they probably sacrifice in the same way to get their internal costs down. Note that you'll pay a nice premium for ordering memory upgrades through the notebook manufacturer.

Re:A Vast Sea (4, Interesting)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717642)

Those prices are low for a lot of reasons, including support, warranty, and quality. I've bought my share of low-priced memory through Pricewatch, and I've also had to return several of them. Never buy memory that doesn't have a lifetime warranty.

There was a story a year or two back with a disconcerting phrase 'Acceptable Rate of Failure'. The context was CD ROM drives, IIRC, which are manufactured at such a volume that 15% failure is acceptable ... which should worry you a bit about how good, really, are the drives that actually passed Q/A.

The profit goes out of doing business this way when you (as a manufacturer) have to foot the bill for replacement parts, manuals, shipping and logistics.

Re:A Vast Sea (4, Interesting)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717722)

That is a fairly common practice. It's difficult to guarantee 100%, so you accept a certain threshhold of failing parts or units. They do it in cars, electronics, etc. You save money by manufacturing an engine in Mexico, but you accept that there will be a higher rate of failure. If you do the math and it's still cheaper, you go with it.

Outside of the manufacturing world, we all accept failure as a reasonable part of our lives. It's usually not a calculated, profit/pleasure-maximizing decision, but it's certainly part of life. You learn from mistakes, you grow from them, and you're better for it. If we're lucky, Toshiba will learn from its mistakes and we won't have these problems in the future. From what I've seen, they've got some great notebooks at some decent prices. If it weren't for stories like this (oh, and my lack of disposable income) I'd probably buy one.

Re:A Vast Sea (2, Interesting)

ArbitraryConstant (763964) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717981)

Note the recent decrease in hard drive warantees and the even more recent increase.

People voted with their feet, because hard drive failures are extremely annoying.

CD-ROMs usually fail harmlessly and can be replaced painlessly.

Re:A Vast Sea (2, Informative)

Kehvarl (812337) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718193)

If we're lucky, Toshiba will learn from its mistakes and we won't have these problems in the future. From what I've seen, they've got some great notebooks at some decent prices. If it weren't for stories like this (oh, and my lack of disposable income) I'd probably buy one.

They are wonderful notebooks (I'm on my second, but I've convinced enough friends to go with Toshiba that I've tinkered with several different models). The only issue I have with them is the recent decision to go with a touchpad rather than the trackpoint pointer. I know many people like touchpads, but I find I'm more accurate with a trackpoint and wish they had kept those in their satellite model notebooks. On the other hand, this gives me an excuse to buy a gyroscopic mouse

I've had 2 problems with toshiba notebooks, one was when the 3 year old 10-gig fujitsu brand dhard drive died but in the 3 years since then the replacement drive hasn't caused any problems. and the other was when one of the hinges froze up and thus prompted me to go shopping for a new notebook (something I was already considering).

Oh, and as always: feel free to ignore my rambling incoherence.

Re:A Vast Sea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718790)

Their screwup. Lessons have not been learnt.
Faulty, incompatible - they are still not clear on the root cause.

Once upon a time, you tested batches, did sampling etc, so there were no surprises - or it was statistically improbable. Not it is ship, and worry about it if it goes wrong - stick costs to the retailer.

Sounds like the QA process has been watered down to 'trust us' - no need for testing. Time and time again, unauthorised substitution has made vast seas :
CRT's - bad LOPT - fire risks
Leaky electrolytics on mobos
Disk drives (IBM and Fujitsu)
Fad cooling fans
Laptop batteries and Power supplys (many)
CPU Meltdowns
RAM
More recently crap DVD blanks (90% failure)

Ask at an interview: What does configuration management mean to you?

Re:A Vast Sea (4, Interesting)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717648)

Let's face it, as long as consumers keep looking for and buying strictly based upon price, the situation is going to continue. The company I work for has to replace hard drives in large numbers every year. But they bought cheap PCs to start with (lowest bid). So they got what they paid for.

Re:A Vast Sea (2, Interesting)

owlstead (636356) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717955)

Er, sorry, but that just such bullshit. The company you work for is conning its customers. Companies like that make it much harder for the consumer to get the best stuff for the lowest price. Isn't that what the free market is all about? If it was selling cheap cheese, the consumer could buy a different brand tomorrow. For computers, that's something an average consumer is not able to do.

That's why, even if your hard drive states a one year warranty, a consumer can ask for a replacement of the drive within at least three years over here in the Netherlands. And this goes for any product with a long life expectancy.

Re:A Vast Sea (1)

Thing 1 (178996) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719801)

The company you work for is conning its customers.

Huh? I didn't read the part where the grandparent stated the company he worked for is selling those hard drives to its customers. It sounded like his company has had to return hard drives that they purchased.

I completely agree about the absurdity of a one-year warranty on hard drives, though. I just lost a WD 250 GB drive about a month out of warranty.

Re:A Vast Sea (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718081)

well..

if only there was guarantee and way for the average customer to make informative decisions on if the more expensive (let's say 10%) actually gave anything more or if the manufacturer was just asking 10% more to make the customer THINK that their product is better.

(yeah, there's some parts that have a price range from 30$ to 200$ - with virtually no difference in product, quality or features)

Re:A Vast Sea (3, Insightful)

trip23 (727132) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717665)

That's quite true. Over the years I bought dozens of different RAM-types, quite often rather cheap. About 10% of the RAM was defective in one or another way, often I noticed it only months laters, when the machine starts to behave peculiar. But having been through a lot trouble I just run memtest for two or three days after purchasing new RAM. Good thing i have a couple of spare machines. Troubleshootingwise i tend to blame RAM a lot more then some years ago.

Re:A Vast Sea (1)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717753)

After building my own machine several years ago, I dealt with varying problems that seemed to get worse and worse until I got so frustrated I almost sold it off as parts. After discovering it was my cheap RAM, I got replacements and the machine has worked beautifully ever since.

One of the two sticks they sent back was great (the one I used). The other failed a memtest-86 test (also the first thing I did when I got them).

Paying a tad more for tier 1 brands works for me (2, Informative)

erick99 (743982) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717932)

I have stuck with Kingston and Viking over the years and have not had a bad module yet. I have heard that PNY is pretty good but when I worked for resellers we generally had a fair amount of bad PNY memory modules. Kingston can be found on sale and then you can apply coupons and rebates to get their memory down to a pretty good price.

Re:Paying a tad more for tier 1 brands works for m (2, Informative)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718884)

I bought a batch of corsair to upgrade a couple of machines, as they're supposed to be a 'quality' brand.

Every single one of them failed memtest86 (8 sticks in total).

I sent them back, went out and got some cheap unbranded (what I normally used) which worked perfectly.

So branded memory isn't always better.

Re:Paying a tad more for tier 1 brands works for m (1)

jp10558 (748604) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718949)

Well, my experiance with Crucial RAM has been very good, however I haven't bought other ram brands in a very long time ~ 6 years. Their prices aren't too much higher for me, and I have no problems, so I see no reason to switch.

Re:Paying a tad more for tier 1 brands works for m (1)

Reziac (43301) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719530)

IIRC, Crucial is just Micron under a "better" brand name. Most of what I've got in the parts box have Micron chips on no-name sticks, but didn't cost anywhere near as much. (Also have lots of Hitachi, Panasonic, and other brands of chips, but Micron seem to be the most common, especially in salvaged sticks.)

For all the griping I've heard about bad RAM over the years, only once have I ever encountered any, and that was over 10 years ago -- and I've got mostly no-name RAM here. I do wonder to what degree the problem is cheap motherboards with timing issues.

Re:A Vast Sea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718986)

that is utter bullshit.

Paying $129.95 for kingston valuram at super trendy supplier does not get you better ram than the kingston valueram for $69.95 at el-cheapo computers.com

fools think your way.

no name Wing-wang-wong ram is more likely to be crap compared to viking or kingston or another known good supplier that has a decent warrenty behind their product. (if it ain't lifetime warrenty, then it should not be bought, you are right there.. My viking value ram has a lifetime warrenty. so if it dies, I get free replacement... even 10 years from now.

and yes, this is true. I just did it for a old Pentium laptop I got for $20.00 at a hamfest. the ram was bad, I sent it to viking and they sent me a free working replacement for a stick of ram from 1994, and the replacement had a lifetime warrenty on it also.

I ALWAYS buy from the cheapest supplier, it's stupid not to.

(Example, I get my CF cards from ecost.com. I buy kingston CF cards 256 meg for 12 bucks. The local best buy and others are 4X that price on crap brands (lexar)... fools buy things at a premium price.)

Re:A Vast Sea (1)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719465)

I paid $35 for 512MB of DDR. It doesn't have a brand on it. There's no manufacturer that I can identify, and my attempts to track it down my "model number" have failed.

I bought it through a cheapo retailer - which is the only place that will honor the warranty.

Now you're listing memory manufacturers like Kingston and Viking. That's what I mean - buy the cheapest good RAM - not the cheapest RAM period.

Re:A Vast Sea (2, Insightful)

zakezuke (229119) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719764)

Yes, and it's found using Pricewatch, Google, and other product search engines. Not all cheap RAM is bad, but you're a lot more likely to get something crappy if you go with the lowest bidder.

Based on my observation, lowest bid memory is just the stuff that is in current mass production. This may or may not work with your chipset, nor are they going to take the time to document the chip density. Assuming quality control is not an issue, IMHO this is why it's generally bad to go with the lowest bidder because you might end up with something that not only doesn't work for you, but you have *NO CLUE* what it will work on.

I have had good luck with page one pricewatch memory. I also own systems with VIA chipsets which based on my experience will typically take page 1 pricewatch memory.

Dell = HP in article. (-1, Redundant)

Nailer (69468) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717565)

The linked article marked Dell is about HP.

Dell laptops? Or HP? (-1, Redundant)

dancornell (95530) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717574)

Isn't the linked article about HP laptops and not Dell laptops?

damn! (0, Redundant)

ntxb229 (542609) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717576)

looks like i won't be getting some new memory for my laptop

Re:damn! (1)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717716)

Well I will be for my Powerbook...

(ducks)

Vast sea? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717583)

is there a vast sea of bad DIMMs out there? If DIMMS = Citizens of Ohio, yes.

...not really... (1)

rel4x (783238) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717595)

Apparently there is if you have a Toshiba or Dell notebook, and are particularily unlucky. On a side note, 2 (notable)recalls since June isn't bad. I'm not saying it's great, or even good. But it's not bad.

"The Register is reporting..." (2, Funny)

EmbeddedJanitor (597831) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717624)

Been seeing a lot of this recently. Why not just have a redirect to The Reg.

Re:"The Register is reporting..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718453)

I've got a better idea.

Redirect to The Register via...

Roland Piquipaille!!!

Kill two birds with one stone - Timothy would be able to do even less work than already.
(I was going to put in Roland's link, but then I felt all dirty. I have to go now. Must clean brain.)

dell vs hp (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717636)

hey, not enough people have complained yet, so i thought i'd mention that the article is about dell not hp.

hey, yo! dell vs. hp?! change the slashdot listing!

ahem.

okay, mark redundant.

Possible? (1)

The-Bus (138060) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717645)

I've gone through 8-10 sticks for all my own computers and only until the most recent one do I have bad memory. Luckily I have so much that it's never an issue until I have lots of programs open, and even then, only WinAmp skips. I'm too lazy to fix it right now.

Re:Possible? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717822)

I think I had bad memory, too.
But I don't recall...

Re:Possible? (2, Interesting)

Wordsmith (183749) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717831)

An easily repeatable, predictable applicatoin behavoir problem like that doesn't sound much like a RAM problem. RAM issues tend to give you more sporadic errors, either memmory errors themselves or wierd bugs caused by the wrong values being pulled from memory for all sorts of things.

You sure its not a conflict between winamp and some resorce on your computer? Maybe it doesn't like your sound card drivers, or the visualizations engine hicups with your graphics card driver, or its expecting a different version of some library, or i dunno ... seems to me like there's better explanations.

And Dell's lawyers will be calling in (-1)

Timesprout (579035) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717646)

5
4
3

I think this affects me (2, Funny)

lukestuts (731515) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717672)

I think that's the kind of laptop I've got but I can't seem to remember.

Re:I think this affects me (1)

krunchyfrog (786414) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719327)

I was hoping to have a free memory replacement so I could tell the guy to slap another few sticks in while it was open.. But the test program on the Register's site said my memory was safe. Bummer.

bad ram a common problem (4, Informative)

cats-paw (34890) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717673)

like a lot of slashdot readers I build my own computers.

my #1 problem has always been RAM.

I remember an interview with Larry Augustin of VALinux (remember them ?) when they were still building Linux PC's.

And he said the number one thing they had problems with was RAM.

I've had RAM which could pass all day long on a so-called memory tester, put it into a PC and the thing couldn't even finish POST.

Re:bad ram a common problem (5, Interesting)

ch-chuck (9622) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717803)

I've had RAM which could pass all day long on a so-called memory tester, put it into a PC and the thing couldn't even finish POST.

I used to use gcc linux kernel compile to thrash-test memory - start enough of 'em so it just starts to swap and let it run in a loop overnight. If no signal-11's [bitwizard.nl] in the morning it'll probably survive anything else.

Re:bad ram a common problem (4, Informative)

skt (248449) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717972)

There are some good, free memory testing utilities out there like memtest86 [memtest86.com] . They probably still have an ISO image on their website that can be used to create a bootable CD-ROM with the utility configured to start automatically.

Re:bad ram a common problem (2, Informative)

joel48 (103238) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718841)

I tend to have better luck with memtest86+ [memtest.org] , especially on newer/odder systems. It was originally (still?) from the same codebase.

Re:bad ram a common problem (1)

n3k5 (606163) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717962)

I've had RAM which could pass all day long on a so-called memory tester, put it into a PC and the thing couldn't even finish POST.
Doesn't sound like the memory module per se was faulty, but like it didn't work okay in combination with your particular (type of) mainboard. Good shops will allow you to swap the module for a different one with similar specs, even to bring in your computer to try out different modules until you find one that works. Sure that's a very annoying problem and it should never happen, but it explains why the memory tester couldn't find any problem with your stick.

Not my #1 problem.. (1)

cbreaker (561297) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717974)

My number one problem has been motherboards DOA. At least one from each vendor; Asus, Abit, Gigabyte, MSI, etc.. I've never had a problem with bad RAM. I have hundreds of sticks of all types of RAM sitting in a shoe box, and whenever I need one for whatever old system or whatever else needs them (like my MPC-2000), they always work like a charm.

I've had crappy RAM, that you have to run at terrible timings, but they work allright.

I have no doubt that RAM is a commonly bad part though. There's so much potential for something to go terribly wrong, and there's a lot of manufacturers. It's not like AMD or Intel with their super-duper billion dollar lab factories for their CPU's - when putting out a line of bad chips could be very, very bad (specifically for AMD.)

As most people around here probably do, buying your RAM from a 3rd party can save you a lot of money. But getting some quality RAM these days won't cost you all that much more and it's worth it for the performance factor alone.

Re:bad ram a common problem (1)

oolon (43347) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718050)

Personally I use memtest86 http://www.memtest86.com/ [memtest86.com] on all the tests, I found 5,7,10 very good at spotting my problems. You can burn and image on a cd or put it in lilo. When I got my latest PC, I had lots of problems which I traced back to the memory not working at DDR400 in dual channel mode. Another program is prime http://www.mersenne.org/prime.htm [mersenne.org] in a torture test mode (but in windows). I noted some else suggested GCC the problem with that is that it does not test ALL memory, so will find some bit problems but many bus related ones.

If you have a Dual channel system and have memory problems try clocking back one speed, it made my memory rock solid.

James

Re:bad ram a common problem (1)

Zen Punk (785385) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719331)

Why does everyone suggest burning an ISO of memtest86? I'm staring at my memtest86 boot floppy right now wondering why anyone would waste a CD-R on such a small bootable program.

Re:bad ram a common problem (1)

FuzzieNorn (203503) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719418)

Some of us don't have floppy drives in some/any of our machines, unsurprisingly. I have a floppy drive in my box-of-bits for emergencies, but no machines with one present, because they're slow and unreliable and have fuckall capacity, so I really don't see the point. Plus two of the machines are recent Macs. :)

Re:bad ram a common problem (1)

Reziac (43301) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719648)

I have an old 286 that has one bad bank of RAM -- or the problem might be that one row of chip *sockets* is bad, I never actually checked for that. Anyway, its lowly 1 meg of RAM passed every memory tester in the kit; nonetheless it would frequently crash with a parity error, which is typically an indicator of bad RAM.

I happened to notice that the crash could nearly always be triggered by changing fonts in WordPerfect 5.1, and then someone told me that WP uses the far end of free memory, preferably EMS, for font caching. There's a memory manager setting that lets you lock out a specific range of RAM, and on a hunch I tried locking out the "top" 256k worth. The ol' 286 suddenly was 100% stable (only two reboots in the next 5 years).

I still have the machine.. man, the things we resorted to back in the bad old days of $$$$ hardware!!

For those who don't know, like myself (4, Informative)

IGTeRR0r (805236) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717675)

I'm clueless on DIMM, so here's the definition, it's good to know: "Short for dual in-line memory module, a small circuit board that holds memory chips. A single in-line memory module (SIMM) has a 32-bit path to the memory chips whereas a DIMM has 64-bit path. Because the Pentium processor requires a 64-bit path to memory, you need to install SIMMs two at a time. With DIMMs, you can install memory one DIMM at a time." -- GamerCentric.com [gamercentric.com]

Re:For those who don't know, like myself (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718750)

Dimm and Simm have nothing at all to do with bit width. Case in point, 30pin simms are 8bits or 9 bits wide. The 386dx required 4 8/9bit simms where the 286 386sx required only 2. 72 pin simms were 16 or 18bits wide. 168 pin dimms are 64 or 72 bits wide. Simms twice or 4 times the length to would be impractical. Dimms cuts the size requirement in 1/2, lower the footprint, but increase the height as they are at a right angle in relation to the motherboard.

Re:For those who don't know, like myself (2, Informative)

danielrose (460523) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719168)

FYI, the laptops all have SODIMMS (Small Outline Dual Inline Memory Modules)

As for me (4, Interesting)

Judg3 (88435) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717689)

Except for a bad 32mb SIMM I had in 1997, I've never ever had ram go bad on me, but then again I always use Crucial - I've seen some of the prices for ram you can find on Pricewatch and all, but remember 'if it sounds to good to be a deal, it probably isnt'.
Besides, with everything else then can go wrong with PCs these days, I like to be reasonably assured my ram is fine.

Re:As for me (1)

PitaBred (632671) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717771)

I always thought the saying was "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is."
But manufacturing quality in general has gone down the tubes. It's a $49.99 DVD player or a $100 printer for a reason... it's not even worth the raw materials it's made from.

Re:As for me (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717862)

... though, in that price range being non-cheap doesn't guarantee quality.

you know, with mem among other parts there's some riceboy'ing going around - slap a copper headspreader on a mem stick and suddenly it's the kewlest thing ever and sure to not have fails in chips.

Re:As for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717890)

I thought the same thing. That's why when I decided to double my RAM, I bought a 512MB Crucial DIMM from NewEgg.com. It arrived. I installed it and didn't think twice. Started having errors, and I thought it might be because of a recent upgrade. Fiddled with everything. Finally found my Memtest86 CD, and ... the new Crucial RAM was loaded with errors! Found 4 in the first pass alone.

Got a refund because Newegg kicks butt. I'll probably buy Crucial again, but there will be no more blind trust/dependence with Crucial. I bought cheaper memory from Rosewill the second time around, and it works fine.

Re:As for me (1)

Gldm (600518) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718211)

Except for a bad 128MB DIMM I had in 1998 from Micron/Crucial, that they refused to honor the lifetime warranty on because they said "Oh we don't support end users, you have to be an OEM." even though it came back bad on every ram test when I first got it and I still had the recipt and the reseller said "It's a manufacturer lifetime warranty, it has to go through them." I haven't had a problem either.

Of course since then, I haven't bought any of their RAM, and the 2GB of Kingmax SODIMMs in my Toshiba M200 is just fine so far.

Re:As for me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10719024)

I've had several flaky 255MB SDRAM PC100 modules from Crucial as well within the past few years.. of course, they were all direct order. So I, like you, am stuck with them. At least they weren't extremely expensive. I only paid like $20 each for them.

Re:As for me (2, Informative)

EvilMagnus (32878) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719035)

Heh. Fortunately, they changed that policy. :)

I recently had an excellent experience with Crucial's lifetime warranty - and the RAM wasn't even defective, I just needed a single-bank version instead of the double bank I had. They gladly swapped the DIMM for me - no receipt required, either.

the ram does suck... (3, Funny)

LiquidMind (150126) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717710)

"...on Dell's bad notebook RAM..."

i've had problems with it too. It dumps all over the carpet, scratches up my costly italian-made OS, it bitches at users it doesn't know, it whines when it needs to be flushed, etc.

*rolls up newspaper* bad memory indeed.

hmpfff [suppressed laugh] (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717837)

Ok, so twothirds of /. would vote for Kerry?

HAHAHAHAHAHH AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA

Whining liberal gays.

mod parent up (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717949)

Let the whining commence!

Re:hmpfff [suppressed laugh] (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717989)

ahhahahaha! god I love it. suck it hard you fucking liberals! suck it so goddamn hard! Enjoy four more years of actually killing terrorists instead of sucking their cocks like kerry. SUCK IT. SUCK IT SO GODDAMN HARD.

You're obviously in denial [NT] (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717996)

You're obviously in denial.

Another recall and a quick fix. (3, Funny)

twitter (104583) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717858)

From the HP site:

HP, which discovered the defect during routine notebook testing, said the flaw could result in blue screens, which indicate a computer crash; intermittent lock-ups or memory corruption.

Gosh, I've seen a lot of that out there. They won't give you your money back, [microsoft.com] but free replacements which are easy to install [mepis.org] have been getting rave reviews [desktoplinux.com] . After hundreds of similar replacements, I can say for sure that the RAM was not the problem. Every now and then there really is a hardware problem, like a dead back up battery ($3.00 at Walmart), but mostly it's bad software. So spin a CD before you pop the cover.

Re:Another recall and a quick fix. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10719134)

Moderators: Please note that "twitter" is a known fanatical sycophant whose obnoxious offtopic rants are legend here on Slashdot. It doesn't matter what the topic is, he'll find a way to scrape in some pointless Microsoft bashing. While nobody expects us to love Microsoft in any way, his particularly tepid style of calling anyone he replies to "troll" or "liar" or "fanboy" because he happens to disagree with whatever they're saying is well documented and should not be rewarded. If anything, twitter is the type of person that should not be part of the open source/free software community. He is an anathema to all that is good about free software.

I'm posting this so that you (the moderator) have some context to consider twitter [hyperdictionary.com] and not mod him up whenever he posts his filler preformatted rants about installing Knoppix or Mepis or whatever that unfortunately get him karma every single time and allow him to continue posting his trademark toxic crap (read on) day in and day out. You may consider this a troll - I consider it community service. And I ain't kidding.

If you're a /. subscriber, I invite you to look through some of his posting history [slashdot.org] . I guarantee that you'll be hard pressed to find someone that is more "out there" than twitter. You'll also probably notice he's got quite an AC following. Don't just read his posts, make sure you go through the replies.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about, check this [slashdot.org] post out. This is an article about email disclaimers. The parent of the post is complaining about the ads in the linked page and so on, and twitter actually goes off on a rant to blame it on Microsoft and recommend Lynx, because "is teh free".

Here's another. In this post [slashdot.org] twitter not only calls the OP a troll but attempts to "tell it like it is" while making some vague argument about "GNU". Yes, if you're confused, you're not alone. The reply (modded +4) proceeds to simply destroy his bogus argument. You will notice he did not reply. This is what some people call "drive-by advocacy". A sort of I'll just leave you with my thoughts here and move on to the next flamebait kind of deal. In fact, he almost never replies because he knows that his fanatical arguments simply do not hold up to any sort of discussion. It's not that he's chosen the wrong cause - he's just going at it in a completely wrong way.

Here's that drive-by advocacy and FUD in motion: twitter goes on [slashdot.org] about some topic and then drops the usual "oh and M$ is teh evil" because "WMP phones home" or some such. Called on his FUD, he then claims [slashdot.org] that WMP stores every song and movie you've ever played in a file, somewhere. Pressed further, he just sort of slithers out of sight, his FUD-spreading complete. This is not about some Microsoft technology that nobody likes anyway; it's about lying for the sake of lying. Way too many of his posts are exactly like this one.

More? Just read though this [slashdot.org] post and the subsequent replies. I guess this stands on its own. Or these [slashdot.org] two [slashdot.org] . Or this one [slashdot.org] . Or this one [slashdot.org] .

Still not convinced? This [slashdot.org] is what twitter considers "humour" while going about his daily "M$" routine.

More? Bad spelling in astounding conspiracy theories [slashdot.org] , more [slashdot.org] offtopic [slashdot.org] FUD [slashdot.org] and uninformed "I'm right, look at me" rants [slashdot.org] , promptly proven wrong. Worse even, twitter wants to be RMS [slashdot.org] , apparently [slashdot.org] (that first one is a winner). I mean, really [slashdot.org] . You think [slashdot.org] ?

FUD [slashdot.org] , FUD [slashdot.org] , FUD [slashdot.org] , FUD [slashdot.org] , offtopic FUD [slashdot.org] , and more FUD [slashdot.org] . This guy is like the Monty Python SPAM skit, but with FUD [slashdot.org] and more FUD [slashdot.org] instead of canned meat. Amazed yet [slashdot.org] ? Don't forget that PowerPoint makes you dumb [slashdot.org] , and it's all a Microsoft conspiracy [slashdot.org] . How low do you want to go? Maybe as low as this [slashdot.org] ?

The infamous Fax Manifest [slashdot.org] ? Nuclear fireballs [slashdot.org] ? It goes on [slashdot.org] and on [slashdot.org] and on [slashdot.org] and on [slashdot.org] and on [slashdot.org] and on [slashdot.org] and on [slashdot.org] . Like the energizer bunny. Or take these [slashdot.org] two [slashdot.org] , which stretch the definition of weird. And you have to love this [slashdot.org] thread.

And in case you haven't had enough, consider that twitter actually thinks Microsoft is out [slashdot.org] to [slashdot.org] get [slashdot.org] him. No [slashdot.org] , really [slashdot.org] . He figures he's somehow relevant to the Open Source movement, and that by "attacking" him Microsoft wages war on us. How's that for warped reality. And finally, this [slashdot.org] should be good for a few chuckles.

It's up to you. We can get rid of this guy and make Slashdot a better place. I don't know about you, but I'd rather take the trolls and crapflooders over people like "twitter" any day. And I sure as hell don't want to be categorized along with him. This [slashdot.org] is not how you advocate free software, period.

reason? (2, Funny)

SKPhoton (683703) | more than 9 years ago | (#10717969)

Toshiba recalls RAM.

Sources say the reason behind this move is that the faulty memory can accessed randomly.
Toshiba unavailable for comment.

Forget about ram (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10717991)

what about my overheating problem?

Part failures (1)

ZorbaTHut (126196) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718027)

I've never had my RAM go bad.

I've had three hard drives die (two IBM, one Seagate). I've had two NICs fail, and another onboard ethernet port. I've fried a CPU. I've had one SCSI card stop POSTing, and one sound card stop being recognized. I've lost two CD-R drives, had to replace my computer case once, and had two power supplies die on me. I've given away a pair of semi-functional monitors. I've had two motherboards die on me too - the last one with some very impressive blackening of the power connectors.

But I've never once had RAM fail.

Maybe I'm just lucky.

Re:Part failures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718562)

I've had three hard drives die (two IBM, one Seagate). I've had two NICs fail, and another onboard ethernet port. I've fried a CPU. I've had one SCSI card stop POSTing, and one sound card stop being recognized. I've lost two CD-R drives, had to replace my computer case once, and had two power supplies die on me. I've given away a pair of semi-functional monitors. I've had two motherboards die on me too - the last one with some very impressive blackening of the power connectors.

But I've never once had RAM fail.

Maybe I'm just lucky.


And you still call yourself lucky !!!

No Suprise (2, Interesting)

glowimperial (705397) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718054)

I have built a number of desktops in the past few years for myself and others, and have returned a lot of RAM. Premium RAM seems to have lower failure rates, but I have returned some damn expensive RAM too. I never had problems with older RAM. Are the quality control issues different now?

whenever anyone 'recalls' something, I think... (1)

zapp (201236) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718076)

Whenever anyone 'recalls' something, I always take it in the "I recall the good ol days" context.

I envision people at Toshiba sitting at a boardroom table saying "Yup. I recall Bad RAM. Those sure were the days, what a hoot"

raises the question (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718107)

...raises the question...

Thanks for not saying (incorrectly) "which begs the question"

Totally OT, I know.

Re:I don’t understand (1)

idfubar (668691) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718115)

When I posted that Toshiba laptops suck and that I had firmware problems, nobody even saw my post due to unjust karma... and what's new, no one will see this post either.

Like war, DDR is hard (4, Interesting)

LOTHAR, of the Hill (14645) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718206)

DDR is a very high speed multipoint parallel interface with very little tolerance in the drivers and recievers. Designing DDR motherboards and DIMM modules is difficult. The capacitive load of the DDR bus varies depending on how many DIMMs are loaded and the DIMM architeture (#chips on DIMM). DDR drivers dont vary the buffer strength based on loading so you will have too much overshoot with one DIMM with 5 chips (x16) and too overdamped with 4 DIMMS with 36 chips (stacked x4) on each DIMM. This is why most motherboards are more relable when all DDR slots are full.

Motherboard manufactures must qualify each DIMM combination separately. You should always use the DIMM modules recommended by the motherboard manufacturer. This is a problem that will only get worse.

I know Rambus isn't a popular company... (1)

zerofoo (262795) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718719)

Rambus used a high speed serialized type bus architecture. Low-pin count and very high performance.

I've built lots of machines based on Rambus memory and never once had a bad stick of memory or a compatiblity issue. I can't say the same for SDRAM based machines: "OK, this stick won't boot in this board or with those other sticks, so let's try this one..."

Why didn't Rambus designs have quality control issues like SDRAM had in the past few years? I don't know, but it could be that Rambus had very strict standards regarding the memory interfaces and the modules themselves. Does the JEDEC have similar QA standards in SDRAM designs or are memory manufacturers allowed to take "liberties" with the designs?

-ted

Re:I know Rambus isn't a popular company... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718846)

Well you could count the number of memory manufacturers that made Rambus memory on one hand, maybe even the hand of a shop teacher. The companies that made the RAM were high quality ones, too.

Actually, now that I think of it, all of the Rambus memory I have ever seen was made by one company. Not just the assembly, but the chips and stick too.

Yes, there is a flood of bad memory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718260)

Company I work for (remaining unnamed) had a contract with a "big brand name memory company" to supply memory. When the memory prices started creeping back up, they started shipping us "remanufactured" memory that passed their testing, but failed under real use with our product. When asked about this, we "wern't supposed to get THAT ram" but we did. Who WAS supposed to get THAT ram?

Re:Yes, there is a flood of bad memory (1)

fireboy1919 (257783) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718508)

Bad ram has crossed the ocean,
They now begin to pour,
Out from the boat and up the shore,
Two by two they enter computers,
And soon they number more,
Three by three as well as four by four,
Soon the stream of RAM gets wider
Then it becomes a river,
River becomes an ocean,
Carrying ships that bear,

Bad RAM!

Where did this come from? [lyrics.net.ua]

use ECC RAM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10718310)

I built my own computers and always choose a mainboard and RAM that supports ECC. I always use RAM from major brands (Crucial, Viking, IBM). Never had a problem. Don't know a solution for laptops, haven't seen a laptop with ECC in over 10 years...

blaiming (1)

loonicks (807801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718390)

...is reporting that Toshiba is recalling notebook RAM blaiming third-party DIMMs... Don't blame it on the editors, it was a bit error in memory.

My supplier... (1)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718412)

http://www.crucial.com

Next day delivery, without fail. I have kitted out hundreds of machines with Crucial sticks and I have *never* heard of one of them falling over in normal usage. Or intensive usage. Or even once when forced into the wrong kind of slot (not my doing, some idiot decided to try putting all his RAM into one machine then complained when both his boxes stopped working)

Bad RAM isn't necessarily bad (1)

Mordak_Foo (827573) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718465)

I've been having to RMA more and more "value" RAM lately. Some is bad...but some is just incompatible, whether its with the chipset on the motherboard or what I don't know. If a person sticks with trusted brands with good chips they seem to have better luck

this would explain a lot (1)

m2bord (781676) | more than 9 years ago | (#10718772)

the company i work for has purchased two large loads of dimms recently for laptops and about 60-70% of the ram starting giving our laptops fits.

we'd pull out the new one and put the old back in and the problems would go away.

we have been lucky and able to return most of it but i think there still might be a few bad sticks circulating amongst our many locations.

unfortunately, we've purchased the ram from multiple vendors and the ram is different brands so i can't add much more than this to the thread.

one tale-tell way that i've found is to load a heavily java encoded page and look for errors coming from the jvm.

Patched DRAM (3, Interesting)

Dielectric (266217) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719074)

I learned something interesting just yesterday about making DIMMs. There are companies out there that specialize in recovering failed DRAM chips. They buy them as factory rejects for pennies, and use some trickery to mask off the bad bits and re-use the recovered DRAM as a smaller density. I know Micron buys lots of this stuff for their value line. Maybe the patching isn't as good as we'd hope?

Eh, blame it on alpha particles. Those buggers are causing all sorts of problems with bit-flips in memory cells. Buy ECC!

The notification email looks like phishing (3, Insightful)

baxissimo (135512) | more than 9 years ago | (#10719795)

I have a toshiba laptop and I got an email notifying me about this. The thing that annoyed me was that they aparently chose to hire a 3rd party to send out the emails to all their customers. So I got this email claiming to be from Toshiba, but the email headers weren't from a toshiba domain (rather from "toshiba.toshsvcs.com"), and even the link I was supposed to click on in the email didn't match the domain it was supposedly taking me to. The link was like: www.toshibadirect.com/CEP [toshsvcs.com] . It says it's going to take me to toshibadirect.com, but upon closer inspection is actually taking me to toshsvcs.com.

I did whois on this toshsvcs.com domain and it just points to some dude in Arizona. So I'm thinking, wow, this is one of the best phishing scams I've seen... or is it?

Well apparently it's not, but it sure could have been. It kind of ticks me off that they're doing it this way. How am I supposed to explain to my grandma how to recognize a phishing scam when companies like Toshiba are hiring people to send out legitimate emails that are virtually indistinguishable from scams? In fact, this would still be a great one for the phishers to jump on. Just copy that toshiba recall email, and replace the already suspicious links with new ones that don't redirect to toshiba's website, or which do after asking you to enter your computer's password.

What's the world coming to? Oh, well at least we're getting rid of that oaf in the White House. Oh crap, you mean we're not???

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