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4503 Electronic Votes Lost in NC

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the exited-polls dept.

Politics 165

ctnp writes "While it wouldn't have made a difference in the outcome, 4530 votes were lost in one North Carolina county after one machine was configured to store 3,005 votes instead of the expected 10,500. 'The machines flash a warning message when there is no more room for storing ballots. 'Evidently, this message was either ignored or overlooked,' he [Jack Gerbel, CEO of machine-providing UniLect] wrote.'"

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165 comments

Shock! (3, Insightful)

rueger (210566) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731779)

Hold on! You're surely not suggesting that those modern electronic computer machines might not work properly!

No, this must be the sneaky terrorist attack on democracy that Bin Laden promised last week!

Re:Shock! (2, Interesting)

collegeshaw (690545) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731809)

Not a shock at all in my mind. What did they expect? Everyone in the tech world KNOWS these machines were going to screw up. The worst part is that the votes were totally lost. With no audit trail, how will we ever know what the true outcome was. My thoughts, the Republicans stole the election via Diebold and other online voting machines, and we're never going to find out the true extent of it.

Re:Shock! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732572)

Congratulations. You have been trolled.

Re:Shock! (1)

walt-sjc (145127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733074)

My thoughts, the Republicans stole the election via Diebold and other online voting machines

Riiiight... Time to get that tin-foil hat adjusted.

No, this is just a simple case of total incompetance by the voting machine manufacturer. First for having such a silly limit, second for poor programming that didn't just lock the machine from further voting, third for not having a paper audit trail. I would expect a few lawsuits from this.

Unfortunately for us, the people that are actually approving and buying these machines have zero technical skills / knowledge. It's like my mom buying a PC. She has no idea which is better: a Walmart Microtel or an IBM Intellistation. She doesn't know what questions to ask.

This is a case where congress should create a commision of well respected experts to draft recommended requirements that local government can refer to when making buying decisions.

Re:Shock! (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732218)

Not really. The reason Ohio was so slow is that outsourced its vote counting to Afganistan.

what were they using? (4, Interesting)

my_fake_account (823601) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731793)

What were they using? 8k memory sticks?

I live in NC. Yes, the ballot was long this time, but it still wasn't much data per voter. I don't think there were any votes that would have taken more than three bits (and none more than four) to store the choice.

Even if the entire ballot is stored verbatim per voter, I still don't think it would have amounted to more than one or two k per ballot.

The storage device must be tiny. Or the ballot data must be really inefficiently laid out.

My county uses pen and paper for voting. It's cheap and easy.

Re:what were they using? (2, Interesting)

stoborrobots (577882) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731857)

I think that the problem was that they set a configuration option which allocated only a small file for storing the votes. While I agree with you that the actual file size was probably tiny, since that was put in as the hard limit on file size, that's what the system could store.

Now what kind of idiot specifies a system where you can only store 10000 ballots? Assuming each ballot took a full 1k to store, then 10000 ballots are only 10M. Since cameras and phones carry more memory that that these days, it's reasonable to assume that the system shouldn't have been able to be configured down that small...

Re:what were they using? (2, Funny)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732010)

*Now what kind of idiot specifies a system where you can only store 10000 ballots?*

probably the kind of a salesman that makes the client pay per capabilities...

"yes it's 10$ per vote".

or they were using game&watches as storage.

Re:what were they using? (1)

dleifelohcs (777508) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732076)

Not all states used electronic voting. We filled out card ballots, and stuffed them into a machine that "read" them immediately. It is likely that the machine was configured wrong, to accept far less ballots.

Re:what were they using? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732278)

But why would that have to configure it to only take a certain number of votes in the first place? Why not just have it tally every vote put into it?

Re:what were they using? (1)

NanoGator (522640) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732539)

"Now what kind of idiot specifies a system where you can only store 10000 ballots?"

An idiot who wants to limit potential damage to only 10,000 votes?

Oo oo, how about this: An idiot who was only paid to make a machine that supports 10,000 votes?

Re:what were they using? (0)

kagaku (774787) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731898)

It was probably running Windows XP and some bloated voting software that used 10mb per ballot cast, and they only gave it a 40gig drive. :)

Re:what were they using? (1)

SpaceLifeForm (228190) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732254)

Hmmm, each ballot, yeah, each ballot was a powerpoint presentation. Yeah.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

Re:what were they using? (1)

kalidasa (577403) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733384)

I was thinking "they stored each ballot as a PDF". But Powerpoint will do as well.

Re:what were they using? (3, Funny)

orkysoft (93727) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733381)

10 REM REMEMBER THIS KIND OF SHIT?
20 REM IT'S BEEN YEARS FOR ME, BUT IT TURNS OUT I CAN STILL WRITE IT...
30 REM THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO BIAS IN THIS POLL PROGRAM, I SWEAR TO GOD!
40 INPUT "HOW MANY VOTES TO STORE? ", MAXVOTES
50 DIM VOTES(MAXVOTES - 1)
60 FOR I = 0 TO MAXVOTES - 1: VOTES(I) = 1: NEXT I
70 CURRENTVOTE = 0
80 REPEAT
90 INPUT "DO YOU WANT TO VOTE FOR (1) PRESIDENT BUSH OR (2) THE FLIPFLOPPER KERRY? ", ANSWER
100 IF ANSWER != 1 AND ANSWER != 2 THEN ANSWER = 1
110 IF CURRENTVOTE < MAXVOTES THEN VOTES(CURRENTVOTE) = ANSWER ELSE PRINT "NOT ENOUGH ROOM TO STORE THIS VOTE!"
120 CURRENTVOTE = CURRENTVOTE + 1
130 GOSUB 1000 : REM DETERMINE IF ELECTION IS OVER YET
140 UNTIL ELECTIONOVER = 1
150 BUSHVOTES = 0 : KERRYVOTES = 0
160 FOR I = 0 TO MAXVOTES - 1
170 IF VOTES(I) = 1 THEN BUSHVOTES = BUSHVOTES + 1
180 IF VOTES(I) = 2 THEN KERRYVOTES = KERRYVOTES + 1
190 NEXT I
200 PRINT "BUSH GOT " + BUSHVOTES + " VOTES."
210 PRINT "KERRY GOT " + KERRYVOTES + " VOTES."
220 PRINT "HAVE A NICE DAY!"
230 END
1000 REM I DON'T RECALL HOW TO GET THE TIME FROM BASIC
1010 REM BUT THERE WERE SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF BASIC
1020 REM I LIKED GFA BASIC BACK IN THE DAY...
1030 REM NO LINE NUMBERS, ONLY ONE INSTRUCTION PER LINE
1040 REM THIS IS JUST WRITTEN TO WHAT I IMAGINE A REALLY BASIC BASIC WOULD BE LIKE.
1050 RETURN

How? (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731853)

By design? Is there like an if(v<=3005) acceptVote()? How many of these machines served more than 3005 votes? And lastly, WTF???

DRM (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731987)

Three words.... Digital Rights Management. The company artifically limits its products, they had multiple lines one that could do 3,005 votes and one that did 10,000 votes, they told the people in charge that they were selling them 10,000 vote machines and slipped them the 3,005 models.

Re:DRM (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732114)

If it's an artificial limit then it makes no sense for them to "slip" them a 3,005 vote machine.

The article clearly states the machine was CONFIGURED for 3,005.

You are crazy.

Re:DRM (1)

LiENUS (207736) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732135)

From the article

Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes.

Later in the same article....

In a letter to county officials, he blamed the mistake on confusion over which model of the voting machines was in use in Carteret County. But he also noted that the machines flash a warning message when there is no more room for storing ballots.

Re:DRM (1)

walt-sjc (145127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733089)

... It flashed a warning... It should have been a stop-all lock-down error. Sheer incompetance.

Happened in florida (5, Informative)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731863)

Don't look now, but something even dumber happened in florida [miami.com] as well.

To summarize, since there should be no more than 32,000 people in a precinct, the machines were not configured to handle more votes than that. As a result, they counted BACKWARDS once the 32,000 person limit was reached.

Methinks this is a buffer overflow issue (32,768 votes as opposed to the 32,000 quoted in the article). How thick can you be to design a polling system storing votes in an int...

Re:Happened in florida (1)

Nasarius (593729) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731919)

Methinks this is a buffer overflow issue (32,768 votes as opposed to the 32,000 quoted in the article). How thick can you be to design a polling system storing votes in an int...

It seems unbelievable that something like that is a mistake. A freshman CS major (or any one of thousands of /.ers) could come up with a better system. It's really not that hard to write a decent backend for a voting machine. The word "trivial" comes to mind, and yet there's been screwup after screwup...malice, or shockingly incompetent government contractors? I don't know.

Re:Happened in florida (1)

NonSequor (230139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732738)

That's what Diebold thought according to the leaked memos. Most of Diebold's screwup are a result of executives not taking the project seriously.

Testing is the biggest problem. Each component of the software and hardware needs to be tested thoroughly. This includes any drivers being used (especially if you're using drivers not supplied by the OS maker). You need people to spend some time thinking about all of the possible ways that the product can be used or misused and test these cases. Then you need to get some actual users and let them fool around with it until you realize how many things you needed to test for that you overlooked. Most of these systems seem to require that the poll works do some things to set the machines up and you need to make the software attempt to diagnose and report any misconfiguration.

Sure, at its core a voting system should be relatively simple, but once you begin trying to account with all of the crap that people will put it through, it's going to get much more complex.

Re:Happened in florida (4, Insightful)

cgenman (325138) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731963)

Why would you ever use a signed int in a voting machine? Obviously they should have used a much larger available counting variable, but how could someone writing the code think "Eh, maybe we'll need negatives"?

Now that's incompetence you can count on.

Re:Happened in florida (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732130)

VB does not have a unsigned int type. (Also note that it's a 16-bit Int, another common VB mistake.)

Re:Happened in florida (1)

cyborch (524661) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732827)

Why would you ever use a signed int in a voting machine?

Perhaps they were using java, which didn't have unsigned types last time I checked.

Re:Happened in florida (2, Insightful)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731984)

This begs a much bigger question:

How in the hell did one voting machine take over 32000 votes? Suppose they had a 16 hour window to vote, that would mean it averaged less than 2 seconds per vote.

Also, (short)32767+1=-32768. They shouldn't see it count backwards unless it displayed the absolute value in addition. Did the programmer for some silly reason anticipate negative values and stick an abs() in there? Or did they reinvent some wheels and write their own itoa()? No matter how it happened, wow, what amazing stupidity and/or malice.

Re:Happened in florida (3, Informative)

hab136 (30884) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732097)

How in the hell did one voting machine take over 32000 votes? Suppose they had a 16 hour window to vote, that would mean it averaged less than 2 seconds per vote.

Read the article:

Election officials quickly determined the problem was caused by the Unity Software that pulls together votes from five machines tabulating absentee ballots.

In other words, they were feeding absentee ballots to 5 machines, and then the machine that added up those 5 machines' totals overflowed.

No 16 hour time limit, as these are the mail-in votes.

Re:Happened in florida (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732842)

You mean "This raises a much bigger question".

"Begging the question [google.com] " is a logical fallacy: that one assumes that which one is trying to prove.

Hope that helps. Have a nice day!

Which county? (1)

FooAtWFU (699187) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731889)

Which county? I live in North Carolina... I thought we all used the tried and true Florida-style punch card system (butterfly ballot optional).

Re:Which county? (1)

Associate (317603) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732519)

Wake County uses the scantron, connect the arrow paper ballot. Last I knew (80's), Durham County used the giant lever and switch machines. I'll go look for info on what type of machine is used in each county.

It gets worse. (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10731890)

The deeper you dig the more dirt piles up.

Mandate [scoop.co.nz]
this [tompaine.com]
lying [ustogether.org]
cheating [infoworld.com]
sinners [opednews.com] .

Re:It gets worse. (1)

Siniset (615925) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732063)

thank you for letting me know about this. For those of you interested in doing something about this, i would recommend checking in at www.indymedia.us for any news of protests happening in your area. There is a big enough statistical case that can be made that the votes have been tampered with. Hopefully, we can turn this into a large enough issue, that there won't be such doubt about each vote counting.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

walt-sjc (145127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733208)

Please... Lies, damn lies, and statistics. Look at the simple facts. A map of results [usatoday.com] by county shows that the majority of the country really does lean conservative. Larger cities have a higher proportion of social-services users, larger gay communities, blacks, etc. which are definately liberal voter bases. The populatio of those larger cities can overwhelm the rest of the state. Look at the senate races too - the repulicans picked up a number of seats. Look at the gay-marriage initiative - all states that had that on the ballet favored banning it.

It's tough being a fiscal conservative with a liberal social bias. We look for the moderate candidates which can't seem to win the primaries. You end up with a far, far, far left candidate and a mid-right with lots of faults. You leave the voting booth feeling unclean no matter who you voted for.

People claiming large-scale voter fraud by the republicans are just angry and don't have REAL facts to back it up. I suggest using that anger to make things better. Make sure we have auditable voting with a paper trail. Get involved with politics on the local level (and not just as a cheerleader - get involved with your community) where you can have the biggest impact.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

eyeye (653962) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733244)

What is fraud?

Isnt having a vote on banning gay marriage as the same time as voting for president fraud. Its a great way to get all the christian fundamentalists out and then when they do what a surprise they vote for their mullah bush.

It is ironic that the US worries when other countries choose their leaders on religious issues but Bush is actually courting that.

Also worth noting that the redneck states voted for bush because they think he is strong on terrorists yet they are the least likely to suffere a terrorist attack. NY voted overwhelmingly for kerry yet were subjected to the only serious terrorist attack the US has had.

Its down to religion and being dumb.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

whovian (107062) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733283)

It is ironic that the US worries when other countries choose their leaders on religious issues but Bush is actually courting that.

I am glad I am not the only one who noticed. It was Bush's own words during the Presidential debates that (essentially) God wants Bush to deliver freedom and democracy unto the world.
/Congrats, Mr. Bush, for turning the battle against terrorism into a religious one.

Nonsense (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732141)

By all accounts, the election was won fair and square. Making such unfounded claims is just reaching out in utter desperation for that last gasp of breath. How pathetic!

Re:Nonsense (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732249)

By all accounts, the election was won fair and square. Making such unfounded claims is just reaching out in utter desperation for that last gasp of breath. How pathetic!

Is that the best you can come up with AC? The grandparent may as well have said 2+2=4 and you call it unfounded without giving any sort of counter argument.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

GreyWolf3000 (468618) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732181)

It would be nice if such sources weren't so rabidly liberal--I'd rather see honest concern for democracy than myopic, immature resentment.

I think the reason Bush won was because people got tired of the left throwing insults.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

krymsin01 (700838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732319)

I think the reason Bush won is two fold.

1. Moral Issues. This just makes me sick to think about honestly. The fact that a majority of people in America think that "moral issues" are more important that the security of the US and the world in general and the US economic situation strikes me as utterly idiotic. The gov't has no business legislating morality. At least America doesn't, I could name a few others that did have a claim to legislating morality (not without drawing the wrath of Godwin, however...)

2. Kerry and the DNC. If the Democrates are so bankrupt that Kerry was honestly their best bet, they are in sad trouble indeed. Honestly, the guy gets out there, says "Wrong War, Wrong Place, Wrong Time" and then says he'd do the same thing Bush wanted to do. WTF? He was trying to be Anti-War and War at the same time. It alienated the anti-war voters out there and it alienated the pro-war voters at the same time! You'd think that with the strong anti-war sentiment felt by a large number of eligeble voters Kerry could have at least stood his ground and not waivered and placated on this issue. There's more I could say about this but I'm going to let it stand there, sums it up really.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

E_elven (600520) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732424)

No, the reason Bush won is onefold: 2001.09.11. Many minds had a hard time coping with such an unfathomable occurrence and Bush was conveniently there to provide some strong associative bonds. It's all Psych 404.

If you want to dig in deeper, everyone was going on and on about the 'record turnout'. Like 65% or something. Quick math says about 35 million people didn't bother voting. There's your margin.

That being said, Bush won. Any problems should be fixed, and the best place to go is your election officials -and in large cases, the media. But there's no point trying to assert some sort of conspiracy.

Me, I'm just hoping they'll have someone like McCain or Arnold running in 2008 because there's no way Democrats will win.

Re:It gets worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732437)

Er, make that about 39 million who stayed home.

Gibbet the bastards (1)

SgtChaireBourne (457691) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732591)

No, the reason Bush won is onefold: 2001.09.11. Many minds had a hard time coping with such an unfathomable occurrence and Bush was conveniently there to provide some strong associative bonds. It's all Psych 404.
No it's all Bullshit 101. Let's skip for a moment statistics about whether the world has become A Safer Place (tm) since 3 years ago. Instead let's look at what led up to Sept 11, 2001:

European airports were operating at such insanely high levels of security on the 10th that it's impossible for me to believe anything other than that they were on alert for a hijacking + kamikaze attack like succeeded in the U.S. Remember that even since back in the days when Big Bush and Reagan were singing the praises of Osama bin Laden, calling him a freedom fighter, Osama's m.o. has been to call his shots in advance.

However, since most of the US presidential campaign has been to focus on generating raw emotional responses detached from facts and data, it would be too much to expect that voters make informed decisions.

McCain can't run cause the Little Bush coalition doesn't want him. Remember they knocked him out of the primaries only with the help of a nearly bottomless war chest. Arnold is a more likely bet, it'd be easier to pull a Reagan again, but you'd need to change a few things to allow a non-US born president. If that happend, then Little Bush's favorite butt boy, Tony Bliar, would have the hand up.

everyone was going on and on about the 'record turnout'. Like 65% or something.
Anyway, without an audit trail, there is little point arguing about the votes, they could be real votes or someone could have FTP'd them in. If it were up to me, I'd disallow any vote whose provenance cannot be proven. Oh, and jail the 'e-vote machiine' vendors for fraud and willful negligence, etc. Gibbet them on Pay-per-view or something to cover the costs along with a random handful of MBAs.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732668)

1. Moral Issues. This just makes me sick to think about honestly. The fact that a majority of people in America think that "moral issues" are more important that the security of the US and the world in general and the US economic situation strikes me as utterly idiotic.

Though I agree with your sentiments, failure to recognize these facts will not win future elections. Think of the message being sent by insisting that Christians understand the Muslim world while at the same time telling them that they must compromise their fundamental Christian beliefs.

Re:It gets worse. (2, Insightful)

geminidomino (614729) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732948)

Think of the message being sent by insisting that Christians understand the Muslim world while at the same time telling them that they must compromise their fundamental Christian beliefs.

Who ASKED them to compromise their beliefs? Letting gays marry doesn't FORCE them to take it in the back door. No one's FORCING them to have SAFE sex or have abortions.

No, the Xians are being asked to get their thrice-damned noses OUT of everyone else's business. No more than that.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733164)

Who ASKED them to compromise their beliefs?

You just did, by...

Letting gays marry doesn't FORCE them to take it in the back door. No one's FORCING them to have SAFE sex or have abortions.

No, the Xians are being asked to get their thrice-damned noses OUT of everyone else's business. No more than that.
...belittling their concerns.

One of the biggest stumbling blocks about the Gay Rights Ordinance here in Kentucky was renting rooms. Instead of saying they were "stoopid", we listened and discussed the tolerant aspects of their religion. The ordinance was passed without any changes, right here in the middle of the bible belt.

Re:It gets worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10733170)

It's a weird feedback loop involving their own dogma. Part of the Christian obligation is to go forth and do good works, and preach The Word of God. Interestingly, one of the tenants of their faith is that you can't compell a person to do good deeds through force. Cleaning up litter on a highway isn't a good deed if you're on a chain-gang and sheriffs with shotguns are making you. What makes a thing good is that a person, of their own God given free will, seeks to do good. (Also written into the Christian faith is a seperation of Church and state, what one owes to Caesar one should pay to him.) But the way they read the bible, really is more for being able to recite it than understand it, which is quite similar to radical sects of Islam. Kids will be forced to copy pages at a time for punishment. But not read, and write an analysis of a passage. For Evangelists it's not about the message so much as it is to belonging to the correct community. The message is entirely the obligation of the guy who does the oration, and they suspend their own judgement much the same way as one might when consulting with a lawyer or a doctor. Those guys doing the oration, they don't even have the big points of their own faith down cold, and they're increasingly political. George Bush speaks to them in their own way, and we the people of the coast sternly admonish them "No! There's a time and place for that, and it's not government."

Clinton did something similar, he was the fun, worldly uncle at the barbecue. He didn't tell them to cram it, while the adults are talking about important things.

If the Democrats want to win, and I don't think they really do. They need to do at least one of two things:

1. Learn to fight dirty. And not feel guilty about it, but love it like the Republicans.

2. Give up some of their bullshit sacred cows, and some people need to be written off*.

* The retarded guy who raped and murdered the homecomming queen and just didn't know any better. Sure it's a social failing of society. But the milks been spilt, their's no fixing him, and maybe killing him does diminish us all, but don't fight it. Nuclear power is good. People need vices, including tobacco. A pinup girl calendar isn't sexual harrasment, and boys need to be boys. (Touching is still bad obviously). The ladies make "76 cents on the dollar" for a number of very good reasons that are entirely within their ability to change. The capacity to bear a child shouldn't make extortion legal, and fathers every bit as good at being single parents, likely vastly better when it comes to raising boys.

Re:It gets worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10733215)

Actually (and pedantically), if you are referring to those polls that showed that "Morality" was the number one concern (out of a list of six or seven) of voters, on the whole, then it is important to know that it did NOT mean a "majority" of people thought it was the most important issue.

It was at about 21%, and was number one out of a list of 6 or 7. But, that just means approximately 1 in 5 american voters ranked morality as most important (assuming a representative sample). If morality was ranked most important by over 50% of the sample, then it would indicate the majority of people thought it was most important.

Actually, if you lump "War in Iraq", "Terrorist attacks", and other "Security" issues together, they still outrank morality. There were no (or few) other policy choices to split the "morality" vote.

Okay, back to studying stats while I download porn.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

Quikah (14419) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732200)

I think this is one of the big reasons that Kerry lost. The constant whining, conspiracy theories and gnashing of teeth by the left is a HUGE turnoff to moderates. I would suggest the left take a hint from their own PAC, MoveOn!

Re:It gets worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732306)

constant whining, conspiracy theories and gnashing of teeth

So you too were disgusted by Gingrich's bratty shutdown of the government?

So you too were disgusted by the years of scandal mongering that the rabid right wing extremists perpetrated during the Clinton years?

So you too understood the difference between impeaching a blow job and impeaching Nixon's criminal behavior?

So you too are disgusted by the bigotry and racism flown so proudly amongst the grandchildren of the losers of the Civil War?

So you too are disgusted by the devisive, rabid right wing extremist propaganda from Limbaugh, Coulter, Cheney, et al?

What it boils down to is that, after stealing 2000, your brat of choice tanked the economy, foreign policy, and internal harmony of a great nation, all that and so much more in the name of fascism.

Apparently without shame or conscience.

And now you expect the true majority to lie down and let you trample our liberty?

Re:It gets worse. (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732351)

So you too were disgusted by Gingrich's bratty shutdown of the government?

They had a budget. The sitting president refused to sign it.

So you too were disgusted by the years of scandal mongering that the rabid right wing extremists perpetrated during the Clinton years?

Yeah, felonies committed by a sitting president are no big deal.

So you too understood the difference between impeaching a blow job and impeaching Nixon's criminal behavior?

Apparently you don't know what the impeachment was about.

What it boils down to is that, after stealing 2000, your brat of choice tanked the economy, foreign policy, and internal harmony of a great nation, all that and so much more in the name of fascism.

We were losing jobs for months before Bush 43 took office.

And now you expect the true majority to lie down and let you trample our liberty?

You guy lost by 3.5 million popular votes.

Deal with it.

LK

Re:It gets worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732465)

They had a budget. The sitting president refused to sign it.

They had a backdoor on Air Force One, and made Gingrich use it, and that right wing extremist took his ungodly revenge.

Yeah, felonies committed by a sitting president are no big deal.

I've never understood why Carter was kind enough to pardon that crook Nixon.

Apparently you don't know what the impeachment was about.

If those vindictive right wing extremists (who would rather publish pornographic text via the Congressional record instead of govern rationally) are any indication then impeachments are a partisian tool used for expensive, petty pestering.

Now lying about WMD to engage in preemptive oil conquest for corporate profit, that's something greatly misinderstood by the right, even when young children can recognize the nakedness that abounds in your kingdom.

We were losing jobs for months before Bush 43 took office.

What a horric job he did in making it worse. What's the debt up to now? The job loss?

And how about that carnage from those mismanaged explosives! Say, why isn't a gung ho guy like you serving instead of posting?

You guy lost by 3.5 million popular votes.

Deal with it.


What's the matter, scared of an honest tally?

Fear judgement.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732626)

And how about that carnage from those mismanaged explosives!

Can you name even one death as a result of those?

Say, why isn't a gung ho guy like you serving instead of posting?

I'm opposed to the Iraq war. I voted for Bush for social issues.

What's the matter, scared of an honest tally?

We've already had one. Deal with it. Your guy lost.

LK

Re:It gets worse. (1)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732224)

Do you have any links that aren't to obviously partisan sites? (Or dubious statistics - the "Surprising Florida Presidential Election Results" doesn't count because almost all pre-election polls were wrong in the demographics that actually voted. The method they used to determine "expected votes" is highly suspect. Note too that the Infoworld article doesn't convince me in the slightest that the outcome of the election was ultimately effected, so don't try and call that one out as being non-partisan proof.)

Most people I've talked with and most results I've seen suggest that (barring massive voter fraud), Kerry and the Democrats lost that election. Fairly. It appears that the Republicans were more effective at getting their voters out than the Democrats. I've yet to see anything that would suggest that this wasn't the case.

Most of the stories you linked to seem to be assuming that all the votes that weren't counted were for Kerry. I highly doubt that this is really the case. It really sounds just like "sour grapes." But I'd be interested in seeing actual evidence and not just wild speculation.

However, it's really way too early for anyone to really have such evidence - which makes such whining now seem to be mostly sour grapes. If non-partisan groups (like blackboxvoting.org claims to be) looking at the election ever find anything - then I might be swayed. As it stands right now, I think Bush was clearly the rightful winner.

(It's worth noting that even if those articles were right and Kerry won Ohio - he still lost the popular vote. And that's the vote that matters, right?)

Re:It gets worse. (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732262)

It's worth noting that even if those articles were right and Kerry won Ohio - he still lost the popular vote. And that's the vote that matters, right?

Just like it mattered last time eh? And counting the accidental Buchanon punches who changed their punch to Gore, since there was no candidate near Bush where the same mistake could have been made, Gore won Florida by a hefty margin in 2000.

Re:It gets worse. (0)

_xeno_ (155264) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732285)

That's kind of my point - if a Democrat is going to complain that Gore won the popular vote but lost the election, it would be hypocritical to then go and say that Kerry should have won the election based on the electoral college.

Not to mention that all the non-partisan recounts came to the same conclusion: Bush won Florida, fair and square.

Re:It gets worse. (0, Troll)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732522)

I really don't get you guys. I really don't. For four years it was a constant gripe about who really won and who really lost. Now you go and switch the rules 180 degrees! If Bush should not have been president the last four years because he didn't win the popular vote, then neither should Kerry be president the next for years should hell freeze over and the electoral college sends him to Washington.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

grendel_x86 (659437) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732601)

I know this isnt true for all liberals, but my only gripe was that it wasnt the vote that decided Florida in 2000, its was the Supreme Court.

They essentially side-stepped the whole voting process of the state, and its constitution, as well as the federal ones, as well as the rules of state sovrinty, and decided where the electoral votes went.

But something that the conservatives(and many liberals) are not getting about this election, IT DOESNT MATTER who wins, if it isn't done in a reliable manner, we ALL lose.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

krymsin01 (700838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732338)

There won't be any evidence, convienently.

Re:It gets worse. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732514)

There won't be any evidence, convienently.

Who would enforce the law? The Secret Service has become famous for enforcing the Bush bubble so they couldn't help. The Justice department is unlikely, FBI too. Apparently the dead enders have kicked ass on the CIA and the CIA aren't supposed to play domestically anyway. Local law enforcement isn't up to it even if they had the will. The bulk of the military is occupied elsewhere. The right wing nuts have more buried tanks than the left wing nuts.

If Ken Lay can't be properly prosecuted there is no way a coup can be stopped.

Enough already (1)

RealProgrammer (723725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732308)

From one of the linked articles: "We need to take a few days to plan and then take to the streets in massive numbers."

That's just plain irresponsible.

Bush was reelected because more voters believed he was trustworthy than believed Kerry was. You may disagree with the outcome, but that's why we have elections.

Rather than protest this election, pick a better guy next time.

Re:Enough already (1)

IndependentVik (582582) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732321)

Rather than protest this election, pick a better guy next time.

Is there any chance we could pick a better electorate, too?

*ducks*

Re:Enough already (1)

RealProgrammer (723725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732346)

[...pick a better electorate, too?]

Teehee. No, but maybe MTV's audience will be old enough to vote by then.

I heard a report that the 18-21 age group turnout was 17%, same as in 2000. Yet my teenagers were whining that they ought to be able to vote, checking results like politics nerds and everything.

It seems MTV missed their demographic. Oops.

Re:Enough already (1)

E_elven (600520) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732474)

Hey, it was raining. What do you want? I, like, totally hate you.

Re:Enough already (1)

RealProgrammer (723725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10733302)

> I, like, totally hate you.

Mom? Mom, is that you?

Re:Enough already (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732716)

17% of the 2000 vote != 17% of 2004 vote.

more people voted in the 2004 election.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

glowimperial (705397) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732322)

As an interested party, I have taken a look at a lot of the "vote fraud/machine error" data that is getting passed around. Very little of what I have seen looks conclusively like fraud. Yes there is such a thing a vote "spoliage" and yes there were some obvious problems with voting machines. But there is no "smoking gun" out there, as far as I can tell. That said, I am deeply concerned about the potential for fraud and failure that these new machines present. More important than nitpicking over a decided election is making sure that we continue to demand the highest quality voting systems we can get. If current trends continue, I believe that it is inevitable that a serious incident involving fraud or failure will occur in an important election, in the near future.

Re:It gets worse. (1)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732641)

Though it would be interesting if any of these pan out, the provided sources will be suspect because they are obviously partisan and the names choosen for the links indicates so is the poster. Still, looking for fraud as a major factor in the outcome is a worthwhile effort if confirmed by an independent source.

What pains me is I'm afraid that much of these are just attempts to shift the blame for the loss and delay the needed introspective analysis of its underlaying causes which for now I attribute to our failure to be as tolerant of the views of the "moral majority" as we ask the "moral majority" to be tolerant of the views of others.

Here we go again (1)

mpost4 (115369) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731926)

Flordia 2000. I say we go back to the way the founding fathers wanted it. Instead of voting for a slate of electorals that have pre-promised their vote to a canidate. Lets bring polotics local again, and we vote for electors, that are well respected in the comunity, wise, etc.... Then let them go and think about the canidates for about a month and a half then they can vote for the prez.

Re:Here we go again (1)

glowimperial (705397) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732242)

I would trust a system like that more than I do the current one. I don't think a modern presidential election is something that can be adequately resolved in a period of hours. I believe in representative government, but my fear is that a system like thatr would just end up favouring the ruling party in congress.

The problem is... (1)

b00m3rang (682108) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732305)

People will want to know who the elector will vote for before they will choose them. So you'll have the same voting problems voting for someone who promises to vote for X instead of directly voting for X.

what more do you expect? (2, Interesting)

applegoddess (768530) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731943)

everyone knew something like this would happen. its starting to be known. god (that i dont believe in) knows what's going to happen next...a few thousand more votes lost, especially in important swing states?

If we only hear about the minor problems, how many other problems are we not in the know about?

I'm not one who worships conspiracy theories, but what http://blackboxvoting.org/ [blackboxvoting.org] talks about is entirely possible, on both small and large scales.
Actually, I don't want to know. Better to get the four years out of the way and then elect a more progressive president. (Sorry, but I'm a bit on the liberal side, seeing as how I'm almost everything that current republicans seem to despise and refuse to give rights to.)

Accountability? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10731966)

"Local officials said UniLect Corp., the maker of the county's electronic voting system, told them that each storage unit could handle 10,500 votes, but the limit was actually 3,005 votes."
So you have UniLect Corp. which needs to be held accountable for lying about the capabilities of their system, and you have the local officials who need to be held accountable for failing to veryify or evaluate the claims of of UniLect Corp. It seems to me that UniLect should be sued and the officials should be jailed. If thats not possible then a bunch of angry South Carolinans with pitch forks and torches should have a word with these folks.

Well this stuff is gonna continue. (2, Insightful)

infonography (566403) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731971)

I saw a pic of ballots being loaded into a truck with a Bush 2004 sticker on the back.

In other news, I talked to a guy on the internets that heard from someone else that there was a website that had a 2nd hand account of really nasty about what's his name. And when they went back the site was mysteriously gone.

Wait there, I think there is helicoptor above my house.

Time passes.

I heard it and it was too dark to see, guess it must have been one of those black helicopters.

You know what Stuart? I like you. You're not like the other people here
in the trailer park. Oh no, don't get me wrong, they're fine people, good
Americans. But they're content to sit back, maybe watch a little Mork and
Mindy on channel 57. Maybe kick back a cool Coors 16-ouncer. They're
good fine people, Stuart. But they don't know what the queers are doing
to the soil.

You know that Johnny Werzner kid - the kid who delivers papers in the
neighborhood? He's a fine kid. Some of the neighbors say he smokes
crack, but I don't believe it. Anyway, for his 10th birthday, all he
wanted was a burrow owl, just like his old man. "Dad, get me a burrow
owl. I'll never ask for anything else as long as I live". So the guy
breaks down and buys him a burrow owl. Anyway at 10:30 the other night I
go out into my yard and there's the Werzner kid looking up in the tree. I
said, "What are you looking for?" He said, "I'm looking for my burrow
owl." I say, "Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick! Everybody knows that a
burrow owl lives in a hole in the ground! Why the hell do you think they
call it a burrow owl, anyway?!" Now Stuart, do you think a kid like that
is gonna know what the queers are doing to the soil?

I first became aware of this, about 10 years ago, the summer my oldest boy
Bill Jr. died. You know that carnival that comes to town every year?
Well this year it came with a ride called the Mixer. The man said "Keep
your head and arms inside the mixer at all times." But Bill Jr., he was a
daredevil, just like his old man. He was leaning out saying, "Hey
everybody! Look at me, look at me!" POW! He was decapitated. They found
his head over by the snowcone concession. A few days after that, I open
up the mail and there's a pamphlet in there, from Pueblo, Colorado. And
it's addressed to Bill Jr. And it's entitled, "Do you know what the
queers are doing to our soil?"

Now Stuart, if you look at the soil around any large U.S. city with a big
underground homosexual population - Des Moines, Iowa, perfect example.
Look at the soil around Des Moines, Stuart. You can't build on it, you
can't grow anything in it. The government says it's due to poor farming.
But I know what's really going on, Stuart. I know it's the queers.
They're in it with the aliens. They're building landing strips for gay
Martians. I swear to God.

You know what Stuart, I like you. You're not like the other people, here
in the trailer park.

Thanks to the Dead Milkmen, And since you read this all the way to the end, I should mention I am pro-kerry. It's over folks, they won this round.

We don't need no stinking paper trail! (1)

BubbaFett (47115) | more than 9 years ago | (#10731983)

Because obviously machines never fail. Wouldn't it make more sense if the machine refused to allow voting until the problem was fixed? Wouldn't one of 4,530 voters have noticed the warning? What the hell is really going on here?

4530? That's nothing. (4, Funny)

BortQ (468164) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732002)

4530 is nothing compared to all the votes that I knocked off when I hacked that Florida machine. You'd think they would get suspicious if you stay in the booth for sooo long, but I guess they are used to the slow-pokes in the sunshine state.

Anyway, thanks /. for giving me all the info about evoting fraud that I needed before the election. I was expecting for it not to work, but the machines are dead fuckin simple.

God bless America, and my h4xxor 5killz 2.

Re:4530? That's nothing. (1)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732310)

It helps that the machines use the same lock as the "bic pen" Kryptonite lock!

In other news.... (1)

asciiwhite (679872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732115)

Re:Fidel Castro and the Cuban Revolution
make my point clear. The revolution was so sucessful that people are fleeing the island.

I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing sane democrats fleeing USA from the right wing Christien fundamentlists nuts over there...

Posted Thursday November 04, @06:13PM (#10729532)

Later that day...
Disappointed Democrats immigrate to Canada [pej.org]


Now that is beautiful

--- Republicans are just plain stupid [commonalty.com]

Re:In other news.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732358)

You know as well as anybody that calling Republicans stupid, in addition to being childish name-calling, is a gross generalization that cannot be justified at all. There are intelligent people in both parties, just as there are less intelligent people in both parties. That liberal elitism is probably why the poorer people reflected in your link on commonality.com know better than to vote for a wealthy elitist liberal candidate like Kerry. Why should anyone in the poorer states vote for someone who doesn't insults their intelligence?

Re:In other news.... (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732394)

As a fellow Democrat who sincerely hates Bush and believes that Republican voters are deaf, blind, narrow, and ignorant, I should point out that your sig is incorrect and should be changed.

Republican voters do not have lower IQ's on average. I'll give them that. Nor are they less educated, as far as holding college degrees. The data in your sig is completely made up to insult Republicans. I've seen it elsewhere. And Bush's past test scores suggest that he is probably more intelligent than Kerry, and 98% of the population.


Did I mention that Republican voters are still deaf, blind, narrow, and ignorant as far as I'm concerned?

Re:In other news.... (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732412)

Correction. Mistook that for a sig, on account of the dashes. But you still shouldn't go around posting such misinformation.

Re:In other news.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732397)

Wow. Insults like that (claiming Republicans are stupid), and you can't see why you lost the election? Maybe the Democrats really DO need to evaluate themselves. Do they really want to be the party of arrogant rich snobs that look down on the less fortunate? With comments like that, and the Hollywood and Media elite in their corner, looks like that's who they want to be. You can't seriously expect a majority of any population to identify with a party like that. It couldn't be clearer why they lost the election...

Re:In other news.... (1)

asciiwhite (679872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732454)

Wow. Insults like that (claiming Republicans are stupid), and you can't see why you lost the election?

I'm not American.

Re:In other news.... (1)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732699)

I'm not American.

Greate...now they Republicans will attribute it as another attempt at foreigners trying to influence the elections.

Re:In other news.... (1)

metroid composite (710698) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732597)

No, Republicans are not just plain stupid [4mg.com] , that would be a hoax.

Neither is Bush [vdare.com] , For all that to be blunt 120-125 IQ does NOT impress me at all; I've TAed math classes in university where that apparently qualifies as below average...and when I think of the bottom half of my classes...oi.

Now please give me back the 20 minutes of my life I just wasted on searching Google.

Re:In other news.... (1)

forgotten_my_nick (802929) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732666)

"I wouldn't be surprised to start seeing sane democrats fleeing USA from the right wing Christien fundamentlists nuts over there..."

Its already happening [boards.ie] .

slashdot unequivocally hates modern technology?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732158)

what's going on here. we all know that electronic voting is far superior in terms of potential power compared to those old messy methods. why does everyone drag their heels and throw a tantrum?

yes there are problems with the machines... but that is a design issue, not a problem with the technology itself. why don't you all use your talent and design Open Source Software + hardware designs that are foolproof?

A deeper problem? (3, Insightful)

xenocide2 (231786) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732296)

Everyone was afraid of what would happen if things went blatantly wrong. We appear to have avoided that malady. But there was always the question, how will we know if they've tampered with it? The answer was a meek "Well, the exit polls will keep the ballots true."

And today we see the exit polls distinctly differing from the actual counts, and collectively sigh that our nation won't go through the same disaster it did four years ago. If we can't trust the exit polls, why can we trust the voting machines?

"Evidently, this message was either ignored or..." (2, Interesting)

metalpet (557056) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732299)

How about:

"Evidently, our voting system was so poorly designed we didn't bother to prevent people from using it once the system knew it couldn't store any new vote."

The more I read about those voting machines, the more 2 possibilities come into focus:
- The field of voting machine design and development attracts the dumbest people in the country, or
- The glaring design flaws have been inserted purposefully, to achieve plausible deniability.

To explain the 2d one a bit, if a system appears to have a sound design, yet it is somehow exposed that the votes stored by that system were manipulated, the focus will quickly go toward the people in control of the system.
On the other hand, if the current designs happen to miscount votes, it may be a local nerd that happened to carry a few smartcards in his pocket, it may be some foreign hacker that was wardialing random US numbers using carded VoIP accounts and found a voting system that picked up, or it may just be the system crumbling under the weight of its own ineptitude, among 20 other possible reasons.
Since each of those scenarios is more likely than a global conspiracy scenario, Occam's razor ends up providing a nice layer of protection.

Of course this is silly. The first explanation is the correct one.
Diebold as a collective entity is stupid. Unilect is stupid. W is stupid.
Let's all point our fingers and laugh at them.

The truth is: It doesn't matter. (1)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732395)

People, blame the machines all you want. But the truth is, GWB won the election by a wide margin. It's very sad, but there is a truth in this. Here's what my dad told me on Wed. morning: America is going down. Religious morons in the hick states are multiplying like rats. In 50 years the US will be a 3rd world country. If I weren't rooted here I would consider Canada or Italy.

Re:The truth is: It doesn't matter. (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732461)

Just read my sig. They are the agricultural, energy, and low-tech industrial backbone of this country. Our overconsumption seems to drive their growth, faster than technology can drive them back out. So, eat less, and feel better.

Re:The truth is: It doesn't matter. (3, Informative)

TiggsPanther (611974) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732625)

In this case the /. summary (at least) isn't implying that the lost votes would have changed who won. And that's not really the issue in hand.

No, regardless of whether the votes would have made a difference or not it's bloody worrying that such an error was overlooked. If these machines become more and more used and the operators ignore messages like this routinely then next time (whether in the US, UK, or anywhere else) it might well be a significant difference lost.

Re:The truth is: It doesn't matter. (2, Insightful)

EzInKy (115248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732717)

Religious morons in the hick states...

Hmmm...the Republicans called those religious "morons" their friends. Yep, that's why we lost all right.

Re:The truth is: It doesn't matter. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10732770)

I wouldn't call it a wide margin. It's not quite as close as the 2000 race, but it was still very close. Still, the margin is large enough that contesting the results won't achieve anything other than public embarassment.

As for where to move: I say go with a country that has some problems, but looks like it's going to pull through in the long run. I'm thinking either Brazil or the Czech Republic.

Re:The truth is: It doesn't matter. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10733279)

Your dad is an ass. PLEASE go to Canada.

Bad design? (4, Interesting)

spiff42 (718678) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732611)

Isn't it a design flaw if the machine acceps several thousand votes and dosn't display the warning until after the vote has been committed. Why not make it impossible to input a new vote once the limit has been reached? In that case it would not be possible to overlook or ignore the flashing message.

Of course I live in a country where we are still using pen and paper. Also, I guess we would have a more difficult task of creating a UI for electronic voting, since we have 10+parties and personal votes with several candidates per party.

Anyway, congrats to the winners, although I would rather have seen Kerry as your president.

/Spiff

Extra Bush Ohio Votes (1)

tunesmith (136392) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732879)

It's not because of an evoting machine, but they've already found one example where Bush was given 4000 extra votes [dailykos.com] in Ohio. In one precinct.

4503 votes lost, 3647 gained... (2, Funny)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732900)

...in Franklin County [franklincountyohio.gov] , Gahanna 1-B. (from kos [dailykos.com] )

Franklin County, OH: Gahanna 1-B Precinct
638 TOTAL BALLOTS CAST

US Senator:
Fingerhut (D) - 167 votes
Voinovich (R) - 300 votes

US President:
Kerry (D) - 260 votes
Bush (R) - 4,258 votes

Hmmm...

Or, rather, 3880 "magical" votes... (1)

Rob Simpson (533360) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732913)

Not sure where I got 3647 from... /Diebold math

List of voting machine types in NC (1)

Associate (317603) | more than 9 years ago | (#10732925)

http://www.ncvoter.net/machines.html [ncvoter.net]

From the website:
OS= Optical Scan DRE= Direct Record Electronic


Punchcard Counties
Cabarrus, Duplin, Forsyth (using DREs in early voting), Onslow, Vance, Watauga

Lever Counties
Chowan, Hoke, Scotland

Airmac/ATS optical scanners
Camden, Jones

Optech II and other models (ES&S) optical scanners
Currituck, Granville, New Hanover

Optech III, Optech IIIPE,(ES&S) optical scanner
Alexander, Beaufort, Caldwell, Chatham, Clay, Cleveland,
Cumberland, Durham, Gates, Haywood, Johnston, Lincoln, Nash, Orange, Person,
Randolph, Rockingham, Sampson, Stokes, Wake, Warren, Wayne, Wilkes, Yadkin

AccuVote (Diebold) optical scanners
Anson, Ashe, Avery, Columbus, Dare, Edgecombe, Franklin, Halifax, Harnett,
Iredell, Martin, Mitchell, Montgomery, Northampton, Richmond, Robeson, Rowan,
Washington, Yancey

AVC Sequoia Pacific - Direct Record Electronic
Buncombe, Pitt, Union

Microvote - Direct Record Electronic
Alamance, Davidson, Mecklenburg

Microvote Infinity - Direct Record Electronic
Caswell, Lee, McDowell, Pender, Swain

Danaher Electronic 1242 - Direct Record Electronic
Bladen, Cherokee, Henderson, Jackson, Lenoir, Macon, Madison, Moore, Wilson

Unilect - Patriot Direct Record Electronic
Burke, Carteret

Hart InterCivic - Direct Record Electronic
Catawba

ES&S Votronic - Direct Record Electronic
Brunswick, Craven (also has Ivotronic), Davie, Greene, Guilford, Pamlico,
Pasquotank, Perquimans, Polk, Rutherford, Stanly, Transylvania

ES&S iVotronic - Direct Record Electronic
Jackson

Diebold AccuVote TS - Direct Record Electronic
Gaston

Fidler Doubleday EV 2000 - Direct Record Electronic
Alleghany, Bertie, Hertford, Surry

* Graham, Hyde and Tyrrell not listed for voting equipment; they use paper ballots.
(Paper ballots have lowest spoilage rate, highest accuracy).


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