Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Open Source Advocate VP Chris Stone Leaves Novell

CowboyNeal posted more than 9 years ago | from the greener-pastures dept.

Novell 172

SafeTinspector writes "ComputerWorld has a story regarding the sudden departure of Chris Stone, a respected open source advocate and the man often sited as the architect behind Novell's acquisistion of Ximian and SUSE as well as the recent open source orientation of Novell.
At the same time, Novell has a web site dedicated to dispelling the mistruths propogated in Microsoft's 'Get the Facts' campaign. What does all this mean to the future of Novell's Linux and Open Source strategy? Does any of this relate to the imminent release of Open Enterprise Server? Anybody?"

cancel ×

172 comments

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

damn straight! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741681)

huh? pf.

They Got 'Political Capital' with Us (5, Insightful)

brandonp (126) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741682)

Novell's actions over the past year has really helped them gain some 'political capital' with me, and I believe the rest of the community. I really want to believe that they will keep making the right decisions, and they will keep working with the OpenSource Community.

For example, I've been running RedHat servers for the past 6 years. I am happy with RedHat, even through a few problems here and there. But I'm planning to move toward Suse, because I'm so impressed with Novell's recent work.

They can really change that momentum with the community quickly, by making the wrong decisions. So I really really hope this doesn't mean a change in what they plan to do in the future.

Brandon Petersen
Get FireFox! [spreadfirefox.com]

Re:They Got 'Political Capital' with Us (5, Funny)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741739)

Dude, the word 'political' has no 'u's in it.

Oh, wait, I read "They got 'Political' with Capital U's." n/m.

Re:They Got 'Political Capital' with Us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741780)

What does Novell gain from you switching distribution? What is the economic worth of political capital?

Re:They Got 'Political Capital' with Us (2, Insightful)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742128)

I'm not sure I understand.
RedHat has done quite a bit of good over a decade. I'll go out on a limb and say they've done more than any single distributer. And you want to leave them not for technical merrit, but because another company GPL'd ximain connecter and yast? How about the companies Red Hat has recently bought. Netscape Directory, Sistina's GFS or 'stateless linux' on the horizon. I could put together a huge list of software RedHat GPL'd why is SuSE more deserving of "political capitol" than the guys who've been doing this for 10 years?

Re:They Got 'Political Capital' with Us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742141)

oops sorry for the bad spellings.

WOOT (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741683)

GNAA did mbonigs parents! WOOT!

He's coming to MS. (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741694)


I can't post this with my real UID as it could jeapordize my job. Stone is coming here to Microsoft. They apparently offered him a big bucket of cash to undo the good he's done for the Linux community (and OSS in general)

This offer came straight from Ballmer. In Redmond it's viewed as a coup but a few of us younger ones think it's grasping at straws as the server division is taking a severe beating from management with their shoddy product.

Watch, you will see that headline next week in an announcement at the MS Developer Conference.

Overheard at the MS PDC... (2, Funny)

Adouma (826526) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741735)

"Devlopers! Devlopers! Chris Stone! Devlopers!..."

Re:Overheard at the MS PDC... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741757)

Woooo Hoooo! Yeah!!

Re:Overheard at the MS PDC... (1)

SiegeTank (582725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741781)

Hehe, those two responses when Ballmer's name is involved never fail to get a laugh ;-)

Re:He's coming to MS. (2, Interesting)

SiegeTank (582725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741766)

This does make sense. Microsoft has been under increasing pressure since *they* think that Open Source has really degraded *their* 'image'.

Though some of they work is good and genuinely well-intentioned, the OSS community know that they never really had an 'image' to begin with among the UN*X/OSS community - and I don't believe I need to expand or prove that claim. Maybe to organisations, companies and average users; but not to anyone who understand how MS 'thinks' collectively.

I think Ballmer's open desparation to cut-down Linux is continuing its established course.

As they have said Open Source/Linux is a concern to them and they continue to over-estimate the threat.

Re:He's coming to MS. (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742010)

YHBT, but it's a classic tactic to hire smart people away from your competitors. This all about the person and braindraining your competitor and really has nothing to do with the product (Suse Linux in this case).

Re:He's coming to MS. (5, Interesting)

billbaggins (156118) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741814)

I call shenanigans (sp?).

1) If 'younger ones' at MSFT already know about this (suggesting it's widely known in Redmond), why is an AC posting on /. the first the rest of the world hears about the alleged offer?

2) From TFA:

Cornett wrote that the $2 million severance package, plus health care, given to Stone "suggests that Mr. Stone was asked to resign." The severance details were unveiled in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Doesn't exactly tally with your tale of Ballmer buying him off. Which is not to say that he couldn't go to MSFT, but I doubt that Redmond was his intended destination when he left.

One, the other or both could be wrong. (1)

Duhavid (677874) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741959)

Or right.

Re:He's coming to MS. (1)

WindBourne (631190) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741999)

Maybe, maybe not.

I have some friends who work at MS,HP, and IBM who have given me information. Every so often I will post something as an A.C. to keep their id hidden.

As to #2, Interesting point. I could see a buyout and then see stone approaching MS (or MS approaching stone) after the buyout. Ballmer may be looking for a PR coup. Let's see how this shakes out

Re:He's coming to MS. (4, Funny)

turgid (580780) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741816)

Maybe Ballmer wants to Open Source Windows and has hired him to show them how to do it?

Re:He's coming to MS. (5, Interesting)

archen (447353) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741987)

Actually I doubt MS could open source all of windows even if they wanted to. I think there's a lesson to be learned from the Netscape code. Netscape spent a LOT of time ripping out proprietary parts that belonged to other people. I can only imagine how much licensed code is stuffed into windows.

Re:He's coming to MS. (3, Informative)

T-Ranger (10520) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742111)

Good point. When Netscape Confusicator was released as OSS, it diddnt so much as compile. As you say, too much cross-licensed code ripped out. And, I suspect, the build enviroment was weird enough that that was a major hurdle.

But the community at large was highly motivated to build a better browser, and Netscape had staff working on it too. Some of those staff members, JWZ with xemacs and xscreensaver, had experience with OSS projects.

Is the same true of Microsoft? If they wanted to, and if they activly persued it, could they create a community around an OSS Windows, and get more back they they put out? (lets be honest, that is the reason any company, "good" or "evil" by any definition, releases stuff as OSS) Interesting question.

Re:He's coming to MS == Bullshit troll (5, Interesting)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741817)

Novell vice-chairman kicked out of office
http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?News ID=2564 [techworld.com] A choice quote:
According to an official statement, Stone has left "to pursue other opportunities". It is rather more likely however that he has become a victim of his own political manoeuvering.
... or you can try this ... http://www.computerworld.com/softwaretopics/softwa re/story/0,10801,97278,00.html [computerworld.com]
He returned again though when Eric Schmidt stepped down as CEO and was replaced by Jack Messman.

Messman appears to be just as keen to retain his CEO role as Schmidt was however.
... and ...
Cornett wrote that the $2 million severance package, plus health care, given to Stone "suggests that Mr. Stone was asked to resign." The severance details were unveiled in a filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.
Office politics, pure and simple.

Re:He's coming to MS. (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741821)

"UID"? That sounds like Linux talk to me! You're not from MicroSoft!

Re:He's coming to MS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741838)

One word: GUID.

Re:He's coming to MS. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742220)

thats 4 words u fucktard

Re:Push Open Source:???:Profit!!! (2, Interesting)

xtermin8 (719661) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741832)

Even just reading the article, it sounds, at best, Stone was a "fan" or "enthusiast" not an "advocate." It doesn't hurt to remember that its flaky idealists who championed and continue to advocate opensource/free software. Its nice to have mainstream business understand the benefits, but these guys have different agendas- its "Evolution", not "Revolution," after all.

Re:He's coming to MS. (1, Insightful)

Finuvir (596566) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741839)

-1, Troll

Adding to the conspiracy (0)

scupper (687418) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741846)

Could the MS product Windows Services for Unix [osnews.com] (3.5 OpenBSD based) and SCO Group be involved with Stone's alleged arrival at Redmond's door as well?

Re:Adding to the conspiracy (1)

scupper (687418) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742313)

Now, I was mocking the ac with my little joke, but then the mod squad got religious and modded half of us in this thread down just because we replied.

Here's the deal, it's not my fault you guys pulled an all night lan party, ate tons of pizza and drank "bawls" or red bull and now have prolifically bloating pizza gas, thus making you grumpy, so grumpy as to mod my little post down.

I'm sorry you have pizza gas, take some Di-Gel.

Hoax (1, Interesting)

3770 (560838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741854)

This is a hoax and many has pointed it out. But I'll point out another reason why it is a hoax.

He says he can't post using his real UID because it would jeopardize his job. Then he says that he is "coming _here_ to Microsoft".

If he was concerned about his job he would not have given an indication that he worked for MS, nor would he point out that he posts anonymously because he is at risk.

Re:Hoax (1)

Foktip (736679) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742291)

Exactly, stating the information that he did implies that its more important that we know his credentials than he remain completely safe. If he did work there its likely he would have come up with a scapegoat information source, and try to validate its authenticity, rather than using himself.

Re:Hoax (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742340)

Hw could just be stupid.

Re:He's coming to MS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741860)

Wow if this is a troll, it is really an act of genius. I bow for you :)

Re:He's coming to MS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741889)

Yeah right .... liar.

Re:He's coming to MS. (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741935)

Well, if this does come to pass it may indicate a whiplash inducing U turn (MS embracing the internet with IE). Right now MS is trying to destory Linux with FUD and is failing miserably. Even Balmer has to see this. If MS really wants to prevail in the market, it will HAVE to return to it's core strategy of "embrace and extend". This would mean a MS branded linux, with ports of proprietary (non GPL) sofware such as DirectX, MS Office, IE, etc. Mixing proprietary with GPL has already been done in many distributions. They should also provide a developer kit for porting their applications to MS Linux, especially games. Right now gaming is where Linux is weakest and is a MS strength. IF MS were to port DirectX and a development kit (for porting MS Windows games to MS Linux) they would in quickly 'own' linux on the desktop for gaming and could leverage this to other core areas (ie. office software). I have to wonder if this wouldn't have happened already if Gates was still running the show.

Re:He's coming to MS. (5, Interesting)

tomtomclub (813905) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741975)

With the provisio that Stone may be going somewhere, the posters indication office politics are probably correct. The "Shootout at O.K. Corral" probably went along the lines of "Stone thinks he's responsible for the recent upswing in interest Novell products." And therefore threatens Messman tenure. Yet, "Messman thinks he made the right choice bringing Stone back and will make further right choices pertatining to the future of Novell." This probably went before the board. The board would have to decide in favor of Messman as he was there first. Messman gets the first chance to show that he is the one responsible for the turnaround. So Stone gets walking papers. Messman is on his own now. If Messman can't sustain the momentum, look for Stone to replace him (if isn't getting rich beating up Novell somewhere else). In the past Novell's boards have shown criminal neglect in monitoring their CEO's perfomances and thus slow to act when removing them. I mean, the rest of the world new Microsoft was wiping Novell off the face of the LAN, but no one at Novell seemed to. Novell fans can hope the board has learned how to read and do math by now. Personally, from some of the speeches Messman has given, I don't hold much out for him (Either Brainshare 2002 or 2003 I think). Not only does he not seem to know what open source is, but what Novell's role in it is either. He's been roundly ridiculed in the trade press for such gaffs and coming off as an opportunist rather than at a minimum, a convinced advocate. We should know in the next year or so. TT

Re:He's coming to MS. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742056)

Good try, but you gave away when you started to rant about the "a few of us younger ones" part.

Re:He's coming to MS. (1)

chadm1967 (144897) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742420)

If this is in fact true, then Stone was never really an Open Source advocate. If you're easily swayed away from something that you truly believe in by money, no matter how much, then you really weren't an advocate.

I would really like some proof on this one.......

MS's proxy logs (1)

Donny Smith (567043) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742537)

>I can't post this with my real UID as it could jeapordize my job.

As you posted this in the afternoon (15:39), you probably did that from your office, which in turn means they can easily (and that's an understatement) find you in their proxy or firewall logs.

Good luck anyway!

Novell Netware (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741698)

more like "Novell Nightmare" am i rite

Re:Novell Netware (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741751)

:911: slashdot goons :911:

Re:Novell Netware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741865)

wasnt too bad since microsoft seemed fit to rip it off and call it active directory

Re:Novell Netware (1)

KingDaveRa (620784) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741995)

Time to be pedantic: eDirectory is the product MS 'borrowed' from for AD, Netware is one of many OSs that eDir can sit upon.

Personally, I find Novell's new direction very exciting. You can already run eDir on Netware, Linux, Windows, Solaris and a couple of other *nixes but it didn't integrate too well. The addition of NSS, NDPS and other bits currently only on Netware is going to menan you can build a scalable, resiliant system offering File, Print and web services using practically any hardware, as long as it runs SuSE. Its exciting stuff!

invites (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741701)

I will say one thing: (0)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741703)

Since being aquired, I've heard nothing about Evolution. What gives?

Isn't it obvious? (5, Funny)

nightsweat (604367) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741713)

The Evolution will not be televised.

Maybe that they realized that Evolution sucks (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741715)

I mean, all I want to do is bind to my god damned LDAP tree using SASL. Is that so much to ask? You can connect to IMAP servers using SASL mechanisms with Evolution, so what gives with LDAP?

Re:I will say one thing: (5, Insightful)

scupper (687418) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741732)

Novell extends open-source push [com.com]
Published: May 11, 2004, 12:42 PM PDT
By Stephen Shankland
Staff Writer, CNET News.com

Excerpt:
For the second time, Novell has released the source code of a once-proprietary software package that makes it easier to substitute Linux for Microsoft's Windows.

Novell, a new power in the Linux landscape, announced last month that its YAST (Yet Another Setup Tool) installation and configuration tool would become open source. And Tuesday, it said it would make the same change with Evolution Connector, formerly known as Ximian Connector, software that lets the company's Evolution e-mail and calendar program retrieve data from Microsoft Exchange servers.

Evolution Connector previously cost $69 per computer, spokesman Kevan Barney said. It will be available as a free download by May 15, though source code is available now.

Re:I will say one thing: (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741736)

Umm... You haven't been listenning?

Try out Evolution 2.0 it's a nice improvement over 1 series.

Re:I will say one thing: (1)

yancey (136972) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741803)

According to this eWeek article [eweek.com] , they will be including Evolution, but Evolution 2 still needs some work to integrate it with GroupWise.

eWeek also has more information [eweek.com] and you can look at Novell's Linux Desktop documentation [novell.com] and OSNews had some screen shots [osnews.com] .

I personally saw the NLD running at a seminar last week and what I would call an Alpha release of Open Enterprise Server. I'm fairly optimistic about the product. I manage Novell and Linux servers at a north texas university and am greatly looking forward to consolidating the two into OES.

I was really interested to see that Novell has Linux kernel modules (a few of them that work together, actually) to manage their own NSS filesystem -- really an object database. This is very impressive since the NSS filesystem's access is granted to objects in eDirectory (LDAP server) and file permissions are quite different than posix file permissions. Yet, it mounted on Linux and showed posix permissions just as you'd expect. I've heard the open beta starts in December, with a final release in February.

It means..... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741731)

... you know how to troll to get your submission published.

Nothing to see here, move along.

If you don't seek help here... (2, Interesting)

Sunkist (468741) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741744)


Get [reference.com] help [m-w.com] somewhere [bartleby.com] .

...Chris Stone, a respected open source advocate and the man often sited...

tr.v. sited, siting, sites
To situate or locate on a site: sited the power plant by the river.

tr.v. cited, citing, cites
To quote as an authority or example.

Do it now, before it's too late [detnews.com] .

Re:If you don't seek help here... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741760)

If you want to be a spelling nazi, get your own slashdot.

Like here: www.kuro5hin.org

There you can feel at home with other people of your ilk.

All this spelling and grammatical correction crap is getting tedious. This isn't a fucking newspaper,

What? You expect a reward or something?

Re:If you don't seek help here... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741777)

Yeah, fuck spelling nazi's.

Send them to teh middle east with all the other crazy idiots.

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741861)

I trust you were being ironic? spelling nazi's should be spelling Nazis (no apostrophe), of course.

Re:If you don't seek help here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741897)

you forgot "teh"

Re:If you don't seek help here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741933)

you forgot "teh"

"Teh" is a legitimate word. The latest revision of the OED defines it as "Teh: (chiefly in internet usage) the"

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1)

artson (728234) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742061)

I's elk, not ilk. What the mounties ride.

Re:If you don't seek help here... (0, Troll)

Saven Marek (739395) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741822)

Nice propaganda article.

Which completely misses the point that our high school completeion is light years ahead of high school completion in other countries.

Where it stacks up? We areat the same level as them when they leave highschool when we still have 3 years to go!!

American high school dropouts are still ahead of anyone else. If you cant see that then maybe you should send YOUR kids overseas??

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1, Offtopic)

tomhudson (43916) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741890)

You wrote:
American high school dropouts are still ahead of anyone else
Try reading this: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1154/is _n4_v77/ai_7446849 [findarticles.com]
... to find the relevant figures ...
"The frightening truth is that even though our nation spends $185 billion annually on public education, we're turning out a bumper crop of functional illiterates," says John L. Clendenin, chairman of BellSouth Corp. and a leader in the business drive to improve American education. Some other findings of various analyses of the U.S. school system:

* Three out of four U.S. students leaving school are not ready for the basic problem-solving demands of work or college, according to the National Academy of Sciences.

* The dropout rate in public high schools averages 25 percent across the country and ranges to 50 percent in some inner-city areas.

* In a recent test of the mathematics and science proficiency of 13-year-olds in this country, the United Kingdom, Ireland, South Korea, Spain, and four Canadian provinces, American students finished last in math and near the bottom in science. South Korea was first in math and second to British Columbia--by a razor-thin margin--in science.

The American students did rank highest in one category: the amount of time spent watching television.
So, American students are only #1 at watching TV. Helps explain the obesity/supersize me problem as well.

And the "last in math" helps explain your country's inability to do something as simple as count votes ... again! No wonder there's so much action at http://www.marryanamerican.ca/ [marryanamerican.ca] .

Re:If you don't seek help here... (0, Flamebait)

Saven Marek (739395) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741956)

> Three out of four U.S. students leaving school are not ready
> for the basic problem-solving demands of work or college,
> according to the National Academy of Sciences.

ok well that might be true on the surface but we also hav MUCH MORE DEMANDING WORK OR COLLEGE. duh it all goes with the territory. like if a college graduate in czech came to here and tried to get into work or college I can garantee that the american high school student would KICK THEIR ASS. So maybe czech kids are finishing high school making worse skills than when us kids do but then of course there is no intelligent industry over there so they arent taught anything and dont know anything and can work in unskilled farming jobs or in factories??? when a czech microsoft or intel comes along THEN see how they fare!!!

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1)

AlphaSys (613947) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741998)

You need to wake up. The rest of the world is catching up and the US is doing nothing but languishing. The generation before us or especially the one before them (you know, the guys who kicked off the explosion in technology) would have a stroke over what passes for literacy today. The English language (even American English) used to be a thing of beauty. Today it has been compromised so that those too lazy to learn to speak it (mostly US-indigenous non-immigrants) can think of themselves as having a mastery or at least a grasp of it.

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742376)

Whatcha talkin bout alphasys!

Re:If you don't seek help here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742013)

>>ok well that might be true on the surface but we also hav MUCH MORE DEMANDING WORK OR COLLEGE. duh it all goes with the territory. like if a college graduate in czech came to here and tried to get into work or college I can garantee that the american high school student would KICK THEIR ASS

"like if a college graduate in czech"?

Can one graduate in 'czech'?

What strange language is that you're speaking?

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742326)

Also explains George Bush.

America is all about TV and Church. In that order. I suprised the religious majority does not keel over from cognitive dissonance.

Re:If you don't seek help here... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741968)

And where is your evidence for this?

Just because you spend 3 years longer in school compared to some other countries, it doesn't necessarily follow that those weren't three years spend jerking off, cramming your ugly faces with junk food, and sitting stupified in front of your TV/PC/PS2/etc.

The output US education system seems to consist mainly of a bunch of inward-looking, reactionary, boneheaded dimwits.

Re:If you don't seek help here... (1)

SafeTinspector (751055) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742525)

Phone etiquettely core-wrecked, I add-mint two know more than a mine are spelling error. There are far worse offences to commit in this world, and when the intent is to spread information and that mission has been successful, then I think it should be let pass.

Wall Street didn't appreciate it (5, Interesting)

scupper (687418) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741761)


http://www.reuters.com/financeNewsArticle.jhtml?ty pe=businessNews&storyID=6727589 [reuters.com]
"Software maker Novell Inc.'s stock (NOVL.O: Quote [reuters.com] , Profile [reuters.com] , Research [reuters.com] ) fell 4.5 percent after the company announced the departure of Chris Stone, its vice chairman"

"Capturing value" vs. free beer (5, Interesting)

xtermin8 (719661) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741774)

"Mr. Stone was instrumental in pushing Novell toward a strategy of capturing value from open-source software, as opposed to other members of management maybe more inclined toward giving away Linux to fuel demand for [Novell's] other offerings" As a potential user, and not a stockholder, his leaving doesn't sound like bad news. He pushed a Red Hat-like strategy vs IBM style strategy? "Respected open-source advocate?" Sounds like he was a businessman making business decisions.

Re:"Capturing value" vs. free beer (2, Insightful)

Etyenne (4915) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742286)

He pushed a Red Hat-like strategy vs IBM style strategy? "Respected open-source advocate?" Sounds like he was a businessman making business decisions.

And that is bad ... how ? RedHat have been making business decision that made them profitable, and all the while they continue to contribute massively to OSS. SuSE, er, Novell have been going in the same direction (continued work on Gnome and Mono, open-sourcing YaST, etc). I'm very much happy with both company's direction.

hello (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741789)

-----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux)

hQEOA7T7qAAWgRRPEAQAor4fzqkITBq+ZlD24ojfcxW3iUKq y5 hFiOA3ZzhyineC
Ur5qQGy6MUzekYcnnZI9i24000MZ4D3so/ ZAM3cANmRssD36mC 11WcNuogeGbVbR
7mPG0FFgJvM98sBsapRQvV6/HRcPTSxyZb qyw/deYB+lBmNnww sLx7jOR+xlvlAE
ALaWgMsP5mkQxHTxoW406cLt70Qhlna+dM pybrjv9sQatWaHuJ STSLboKbKNge9p
9dHJvwW1Oz0+isn1jmfitOSJ0yWh3Ylrzr YIl/9zD2FTJ8z8Bz oipWTSfMQ5AosU
9f4WasIeRxVZ8UClWM5+pAZEGWaT0CvNnu yO0CUdAP2i0sCrAc IyRP5giqXl7ER/
51E2TgmvF7Yk8TrKo4N7dSF7OynLhattnL OqyOw0rISDAqOWUc g73P6q3G8RobR6
AoniuOtqTAhXxbXlOb/9oNgyXvXgyk2Vcv W/75/OUyYSMd1FD3 L62gihYbfVoctS
V+LWsoiGkADxegLKs5rV31PA2JBuuBqUOp O/fODdJpYFLMlt8E BpKd8olV+PNl32
E3HF3quJgLtIzYQslZt6w42lDDJeKv3BdA SIfW6HRAMeDypzKA 3wUPSNdTdNtD41
rEjnK3fp3p9pJa9AwX528ClgxGeFF/UNY7 u7S4SUOVq+AfxBos 5GIk2N+GyBNXlU /romrU3POuZt2w3KlYYwmCGI0Mg5JQpaSs/R4uMB1HTquQmQkg nGI3k0jiFCwgY7
hlfRJkBWG2A6nCSZnmhvtMVddrbIdDNxAm BtSH6dnJTGzxQdPq R8pXa9D/3k4DY3
llpBGTVFMoWO5Mwjr5/U
=IDOM
----- END PGP MESSAGE-----

he must have been pushed. (-1, Redundant)

bogaboga (793279) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741790)

As an individual who can read between the lines, I know [and feel] that Stone must have been pushed. My reasons will be outlined later.

Cb..

Sky is not falling, no film at 11 (4, Insightful)

maggard (5579) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741792)

Folks, take a few deep breaths.

Novell is a large company. Not as large as MS (few are!) but not some little two person shop either. That one person left, even from a senior position, does not mean the sky is falling.

Internal politics, didn't like the traffic in Waltham (where Novell is now HQ'd), really did leave to "pursue other opportunities", doesn't matter. The company has set a course, invested considerable resources, indeed likely staked it's future on this: No one person leaving is going to have a huge effect.

As much as folks invest in the cult of personality Linux wouldn't come to a screeching halt without Torvalds, MS wouldn't suddenly shut down sans Gates or Ballmer, Apple would still soldier on absent Jobs, etc. Sure there may be different nuances but honestly, does anyone seriously expect the loss of a VP to completely change over a company?

Novell has reinvented itself as a Linux shop. They've expended huge amounts of effort, plus their dwindling capitol, on making this transition. They've promised their investors, sold their customers, rearranged their products and development. While it's unfortunate Stone is leaving there is no shortage of folks ready to step into his position (heck, he's stepped in & out of it several times!)

My take-away from this? There is a heatlthy enterprise Linux market with employment opportunities for tech managers on the vendor-end. Right now I bet there are more then a few resumes beiong spiffed up at IBM, Red Hat, and even MS (SCO need not apply.)

Re:Sky is not falling, no film at 11 (5, Insightful)

dodgy_knickers (793417) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741912)

The company has set a course, invested considerable resources, indeed likely staked it's future on this: No one person leaving is going to have a huge effect.
This is a non sequitur. Your assumption is that every person in the company contributes equally to the direction of the company. In fact, most companies are held together by surprisingly few people. The rest look to those key personalities for their direction.

If a highly influential leader departs Novell, and those left in his wake have different ideas, those ideas will gain traction because the most powerfull advocate for the status quo has disappeared. I've seen this happen. It's natural. Even on individual engineering projects the first thing many coders want to do when picking up a software project left behind by someone else is challenge the design premises and take the codebase in a new direction. It works the same way in management, only the "codebase" is the company.

The sky is probably not falling. But we cannot say conclusively that it is not falling based solely on the fact that Novell is a big company.

-kev

Re:Sky is not falling, no film at 11 (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741919)


The difference in this case, is the tech community
has a mature understanding of where apple, microsoft, and even linux are heading both from social and technical perspectives.

with novell, the picture is a little less clear. who -really- architected novell's recent shift? assuming one person had the most influence, if -that- person bailed, would novell keep their current course or deviate again? what if -that person- was chris stone, as some speculate?

-ac

Re:Sky is not falling, no film at 11 (2, Interesting)

geg81 (816215) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741947)

Internal politics, didn't like the traffic in Waltham (where Novell is now HQ'd), really did leave to "pursue other opportunities", doesn't matter.

Chris Stone said that "it is with some regret" that he is leaving and he got a big severance package. That doesn't sound like it was an amicable parting.

As much as folks invest in the cult of personality Linux wouldn't come to a screeching halt without Torvalds,

In this case, it's Wall Street and customers that may have invested millions that are practicing the cult of personality, and they will be practicing it with Novell the same way as they do with any other company. (Besides, like it or not, without these cults of personality, Linux, MS, Apple, and other big projects just wouldn't exist.)

No, the sky isn't falling, but this is the sort of thing investors do pay attention to, and the ball is in Novell's court to come up with an explanation and a reassuring response.

Re:Sky is not falling, no film at 11 (4, Interesting)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741990)

> Novell has reinvented itself as a Linux shop.

Funny that you put this in the past tense, as if a bunch of promised vaporware is reality or something.

Novell's main source of revenue comes from NetWare-based products. They bought a money-losing SuSE, but haven't done much to reposition it or sell it to their current customer base, yet. They bought Ximain, but haven't articulated any clear plan for the "desktop" or developer tools (Mono). They haven't even put the SuSE (KDE) people and the Ximain people on the same page.

I only say this because Novell has a history of schizophrenic strategy changes every few years. They might become a "Linux Shop" in the future, but I wouldn't count these chickens before they hatch.

Or mayby its like boats! (2, Insightful)

Foktip (736679) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742355)

Mayby some view working in buisness the same way you build boats, or hobbies.

Once youve fixed up one nice old boat (Novell), its a job well done. Time to seek another fixer upper boat! Or even build your own from scratch!

In other news... (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741799)

Aha!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741809)

Will this mean there won`t be any GNovell Linux and KDE will remain the main desktop in Suse!!

what it is like to work with Stone (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741869)

I worked with Chris Stone at his startup company tilion. I was never really impressed by Stone and here's why.

We spent 2 years putting together a fancy XML based web application for inventory tracking at Stone's Tilion web startup company in Maynard. We went, burned, through about 26 million. The sales people couldn't sell the Tilion product at all. Nobody wanted it. Stone desperately tried to retool the product several times by adding in other third party software. We just ended up spending more money on a more expensive product that still nobody wanted! Eventually the investors showed up one day and pulled the plug on the company.

I followed his path for awhile after he left Tilion for Novell. He seemed to be doing the exact same thing he did at Tilion his failed startup: buying up third party software and mashing it all together. My guess is the same exact thing happened at Novell which happened at Tilion: a lot of money was spent and sales didn't increase -- a practice which is discouraged in the corporate world.

In conclusion, lately I have been seeing Stone as the Al Gore of software executives. Just because he claims to have 'invented' CORBA doesn't necessarily mean he is a good business leader. He is a decent guy but just not a great leader.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (2, Insightful)

Bozdune (68800) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741936)

Dude, chances are only 1 in 10 that any new company is going to make it. Dissing Stone because his dot-com failed is neither insightful nor interesting. I've started three companies and worked for four more. I've seen good times and I've seen bad. So Tilion didn't make it. Big deal.

How about giving us some perspective on the man? Was he technically astute? Did the product work? Was it cleverly designed? Was he able to motivate people and get them excited? Was Tilion a good place to work, or a shitty place to work, and how much of that was due to Stone?

If you know the answers, share them, please. Otherwise you are indistinguishable from some random troll who happens to know somebody who knew somebody who worked at Tilion, or something.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10741996)

If you know the answers, share them, please. Otherwise you are indistinguishable from some random troll who happens to know somebody who knew somebody who worked at Tilion, or something.

To dispel the troll myth let me put it this way, Stone was in my cubicle once a week to review things. Was he a good motivator? yes. Was he technically astute? no. He was good at knowing current buzzwords in the industry like 'XML database' but he lacked the technical ability to see how useful the buzzword was. Was the company fun to work at? Not really. The engineers never really knew the direction of the final product. The company had a feeling to it like it was being run by old IBM exec's, which was weird for a startup.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (1)

MadEE (784327) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742041)

How about giving us some perspective on the man? Was he technically astute? Did the product work? Was it cleverly designed?

None of these things matter if no one wants the product in the first place.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (1)

Bozdune (68800) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742115)

Lots of people don't want perfectly good and useful products, for reasons that aren't always clear, even to marketing geniuses. The fact that nobody wanted the product says very little about Stone. And, the fact that he scrambled to try to save his company when it turned out that people didn't want his product is laudable, not laughable.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742125)

Wrong. Nobody here cares about some boring-ass inventory product. The discussion is about Stone.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (1)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742148)



None of these things matter if no one wants the product in the first place.


But that by itself doesn't say much. Did the product do something nobody needed? Or did the leadership and sales force fail to communicate what the product could do for their customers? Each situation implies slightly different character traits in leadership.

Al Gore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742047)

OK, one more time: Gore never claimed to have invented the internet. What he claimed the credit for is taking the political/legislative initiative that facilitated the emergence of the (commercial) internet as we know it. This guy did a lot of leg work behind the curtain to set the internet free, to unleash it onto the public.

He saw the potential of the internet at all sorts of levels way before many saw it. Don't let a badly worded claim distort what he really did. A lot of us should be grateful to him for being a politician that "gets it".

Re:Al Gore (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742154)

The exact quote was "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in CREATING THE INTERNET."

So no, he didn't say he invented it, he said he created it.

And Democrats say Bush is dumb. No wonder Algore and JohnKerryEdwards couldn't get elected.

Re:Al Gore (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742554)

OK, as I see we are still dealing with partisan-induced blinders:

http://www.firstmonday.dk/issues/issue5_10/wiggi ns /

[snip]

A cynic might observe that "creating the Internet" and "inventing the Internet" are tantamount to the same exaggeration. But let's look at the entire quote in the context of the colloquy with Blitzer. Here is Blitzer's entire query to Gore:

BLITZER: I want to get to some of the substance of domestic and international issues in a minute, but let's just wrap up a little bit of the politics right now.

Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination process, support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of yours, a former colleague in the Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn't necessarily bring to this process?

Clearly, Blitzer is asking Gore to offer an explanation of how he differs as a politician from other politicians in general, and his rival at the time, Bill Bradley, in particular. Here is Gore's entire response to Blitzer's question:

GORE: Well, I will be offering - I'll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be.

But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I've traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system.

During a quarter century of public service, including most of it long before I came into my current job, I have worked to try to improve the quality of life in our country and in our world. And what I've seen during that experience is an emerging future that's very exciting, about which I'm very optimistic, and toward which I want to lead.

Here Gore appears to have been caught off guard a bit by the question, rambling a bit as he seeks to vocalize a responsive answer. He emphasizes his work during his years in the Congress - Gore served in the House and later the Senate - as well as his leadership on various issues. Perhaps not showing the most elegant variation in words, he mentions "initiative" three times. Clearly his overall message is that he worked hard on a number of issues, and took a leadership position relative to others - presumably including his rival Bradley. The overall thrust is that Gore paints himself as a forward-looking legislator and political leader.

[snip]

And then there is this posting by Vinton Cerf (not exactly a simpleton and quite a key figure in history of the internet):

http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=vinton+cerf+gor e+ creating&hl=fr&lr=&selm=st9t6a9fjh81fd%40corp.supe rnews.com&rnum=2

Again, we have to recognize Al Gore's track record, his _real_ role in the creation of the internet... and, yes, that he is not as dumb as Dubya. Maybe he was not the best at expressing himself *on the spot*, but Al Gore was a very rare beast indeed: a technical-saavy, forward-looking US politician. I guess when one is living outside the usa one can see things more clearly than people living there. I am not saying that one major political party is better than the other (they are just different sides of the same coin), nor am I saying that I would have voted for Gore. But let's not fall in republican-style smearing, please.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (3, Insightful)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742086)

I was just going to bring this up. I follow the boards on stock forums, and investers seem nervous. This is the guy who was brought in pushing for Linux a couple years ago, now he just up and leaves one day? This is apparently what happened at Tilion it seemed fine then he left and shocked everyone. Also people on the board say many exec's at Novell have been leaving, is this also true? All the news seems bad things like they sold 20,000 subscriptions, but 10,000 of that was to one company.
RedHat is well embedded in the "sure I'll pay for linux" market. Its a tough nut to crack for anyone. I just can't see Novell taking over RH on Linux, RH just plays the game so well in a decade of working with a spazz community the only two real screw up's ppl have flailed their arms at them for are "killing the desktop" and "a bad GCC". One hell of a track record for a company who is surrounded by an emotional community.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (2, Insightful)

ljavelin (41345) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742169)

Eventually the investors showed up one day and pulled the plug on the company.

Sadly, the investors showed up with $26 million and proceeded to steer the company in a ludicrous direction.

That's why the company failed. Was Chris there? Yes. Was he steering? He wasn't allowed to once the investors came in. Once the investors stepped in, the direction of the company was changed in order to take the company to IPO. Business principles (like "do we have a sellable product?") were made less important, to the point where even a successful IPO was impossible.

Chris and the other founders basically lost what was once a decent idea.

I'm not saying that Chris is a super-genious. But it is very unfair to pin the failure on Chris. His only real failure was to find willing investors that were incapable of running a business.

Re:what it is like to work with Stone (2, Informative)

kesler (576674) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742283)

Wouldn't that be the George W. Bush of software executives? He has ruined many businesses.

Al Gore helped fund ARPA [about.com] "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country's economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system."

What the article didnt mention... (2)

110010001000 (697113) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741938)

...was that Chris got a multi-million dollar (cash) and tons of stock as a parting gift. My, and some people say you can't make money with Open Source software! The executives are cleaning up.

"Dispelling the mistruths"? (1)

jcr (53032) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741984)

Is "mistruths" even a word? Dictionary.com doesn't think so.

*insert a rant about writing clearly here.*

-jcr

Re:"Dispelling the mistruths"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742593)

It's a good thing we only trust dictionary.com. http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary& va=mistruths So please go fuck [reference.com] yourself

It's interesting (4, Insightful)

petrus4 (213815) | more than 9 years ago | (#10741989)

This reminds me of when Richard Garriott left Ultima Online...As I recall there was some controversy as to how voluntary his departure in that situation was, as well. I think it's completely safe to say also that UO was never the same afterwards...although from memory Garriott's involvement had only been sporadic for about a year before he finally left. UO has been going down hill for a long time, though...it's why the freeshard scene is as big as it is. Really pissed me off when I read EA's TOS for the Sims Online, specifically prohibiting freeshards. Makes me wish I could write to the company and say to them that if they weren't such utterly mindless, incompetent, creatively-devoid, cash-fixated drones, they might have been able to run UO's official shards in a half-intelligent manner...which would have meant that people wouldn't have had any REASON to start their own shards. Running an MMORPG is no small feat...I'm sure many of the people running indie shards now would glady have not bothered if EA's shards were still worth playing. Of course now that I think about it...it most likely isn't the live team's fault...they've most probably got marketing idiots tying their hands about what they can and can't do. To me, associating marketing people with the live team of an MMORPG is like what Sun Tzu said about needing to keep a king away from a general during a war. The king might have authority, but in many cases was utterly clueless about warfare in particular.

(Now back to the topic ;)) Contrary to an earlier post on this topic, I believe that given an individual in question being sufficiently creative/instrumental, the loss of a single person *can* be a big deal to a project. People have a tendency to develop their own logical frameworks, which others can have a very difficult time understanding. You take away the frame of mind and emotion that was responsible for the inception of a project, and there are going to be ramifications, even if said project continues.

It will be interesting to see how much of a course change results in Chris Stone's having left Novell. If it's true that SUSE are starting to take over the company, I can't see that as being a good thing...I will admit I don't know all that much about SUSE as a company, but virtually all of what I have read about their attitude I haven't liked...especially the debacle about YaST before Novell decided to open it.

This is what happens... (0, Offtopic)

lunar_legacy (715938) | more than 9 years ago | (#10742057)

...when CowboyNeal spends too much time on making sure /. pages are valid html!

often cited as

Might be other reasons he's gone (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742143)

In my company when a top executive or manager leaves suddenly it's not always a performance or political issue. On more than one occasion it's been because the manager was caught boinking a directly-reporting employee. My point is the public doesn't (and possibly won't) know the details. As such the better question to ask is, how will Novell do without him? If one company relies so heavily on one executive, then the company may not be all that stable to begin with.

Here is a thought (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742288)

Instead of speculating wildly about all the myriad of bizzare reasons that Chris Stone might have possibly left novell/been replaced by a pod person why don't you just ask Chris Stone why he left?

It means, One Less OpenSrc Job Available (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10742463)

.:

It means, One Less OpenSrc Job Available, and one more guy going after the few that are available. Dispell all you want, the facts are plain. A business in opensource is not a business at all - it's a hobby.

:.

Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?