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NeXTSTEP To Mac OS X

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the after-all-these-years dept.

328

*no comment* writes "the folks over at OSviews have a nicely done article that explains the evolution of NeXTSTEP into Mac OS X. 'With the beginning of 1996, Apple realized that with the next generation PC's running Windows NT to be released within the decade, they would need a new, modern operating system to run on their machines. ... Amongst Apple's other options were to license Solaris from Sun, NT from Microsoft, or to purchase a small net services company called NeXT. Apple chose the latter.'" OSNews had another nice Mac-oriented look at NeXTSTEP last year; the Wikipedia entry is also worth looking through.

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I love Apple, but fuck the south! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803310)

Fuck the South. We should have let them go when they wanted to leave. But no, we had to kill half a million people so they'd stay part of our special Union. Fighting for the right to keep slaves - yeah, those are states we want to keep.

And now what do we get? We're the fucking Arrogant Northeast Liberal Elite? How about this for arrogant: the South is the Real America? The Authentic America. Really?

Cause we fucking founded this country, assholes. Those Founding Fathers [wikipedia.org] you keep going on and on about? All that bullshit about what you think they meant by the Second Amendment giving you the right to keep your assault weapons [mercurynews.com] in the glove compartment because you didn't bother to read the first half of the fucking sentence [motherjones.com] ? Who do you think those wig-wearing lacy-shirt sporting revolutionaries [theology.edu] were? They were fucking blue-staters, dickhead. Boston? Philadelphia? New York? Hello? Think there might be a reason all the fucking monuments [americanparknetwork.com] are up here in our backyard?

No, No. Get the fuck out. We're not letting you visit the Liberty Bell and fucking Plymouth Rock anymore until you get over your real American selves and start respecting those other nine amendments. Who do you think those fucking stripes on the flag are for? Nine are for fucking blue states. And it would be 10 if those Vermonters had gotten their fucking Subarus together and broken off from New York a little earlier. Get it? We started this shit, so don't get all uppity about how real you are you Johnny-come-lately Oooooh I've been a state for almost a hundred years [state.ok.us] dickheads. Fuck off.

Arrogant? You wanna talk about us Northeasterners being fucking arrogant? What's more American than arrogance? Hmmm? Maybe horsies [commondreams.org] ? I don't think so. Arrogance is the fucking cornerstone of what it means to be American. And I wouldn't be so fucking arrogant if I wasn't paying for your fucking bridges, bitch.

All those Federal taxes you love to hate? It all comes from us and goes to you [typepad.com] , so shut up and enjoy your fucking Tennessee Valley Authority [feri.org] electricity and your fancy highways that we paid for. And the next time Florida gets hit by a hurricane you can come crying to us if you want to, but you're the ones who built on a fucking swamp. Let the Spanish keep it, it's a shithole, we said, but you had to have your fucking orange juice.

The next dickwad who says, It's your money, not the government's money is gonna get their ass kicked. Nine of the ten states that get the most federal fucking dollars and pay the least... can you guess? Go on, guess. That's right, motherfucker, they're red states. And eight of the ten states that receive the least and pay the most? It's too easy, asshole, they're blue states. It's not your money, assholes, it's fucking our money. What was that Real American Value you were spouting a minute ago? Self reliance? Try this for self reliance: buy your own fucking stop signs, assholes.

Let's talk about those values for a fucking minute. You and your Southern values can bite my ass because the blue states got the values over you fucking Real Americans every day of the goddamn week. Which state do you think has the lowest divorce rate you marriage-hyping dickwads? Well? Can you guess? It's fucking Massachusetts [toughenough.org] , the fucking center of the gay marriage universe. Yes, that's right, the state you love to tie around the neck of anyone to the left of Strom Thurmond has the lowest divorce rate in the fucking nation. Think that's just some aberration [divorcemag.com] ? How about this: 9 of the 10 lowest divorce rates are fucking blue states, asshole, and most are in the Northeast, where our values suck so bad. And where are the highest divorce rates? Care to fucking guess? 10 of the top 10 are fucking red-ass we're-so-fucking-moral states. And while Nevada is the worst, the Bible Belt [ncpa.org] is doing its fucking part.

But two guys making out is going to fucking ruin marriage for you? Yeah? Seems like you're ruining it pretty well on your own, you little bastards. Oh, but that's ok because you go to church, right? I mean you do, right? Cause we fucking get to hear about it every goddamn year at election time. Yes, we're fascinated by how you get up every Sunday morning and sing, and then you're fucking towers of moral superiority. Yeah, that's a workable formula. Maybe us fucking Northerners don't talk about religion as much as you because we're not so busy sinning, hmmm? Ever think of that, you self-righteous assholes? No, you're too busy erecting giant stone tablets of the Ten Commandments [msn.com] in buildings paid for by the fucking Northeast Liberal Elite. And who has the highest murder rates [findarticles.com] in the nation? It ain't us up here in the North, assholes.

Well this gravy train is fucking over. Take your liberal-bashing, federal-tax-leaching, confederate-flag-waving, holier-than-thou, hypocritical bullshit and shove it up your ass.

And no, you can't have your fucking convention in New York next time. Fuck off.

waaay off-topic, but a GREAT rant (-1, Offtopic)

bobalu (1921) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803337)

'nuff said

Re:I love Apple, but fuck the south! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803453)

Who do you think those fucking stripes on the flag are for? Nine are for fucking blue states. And it would be 10 if those Vermonters had gotten their fucking Subarus together and broken off from New York a little earlier. Get it? We started this shit, so don't get all uppity about how real you are you Johnny-come-lately Oooooh I've been a state for almost a hundred years dickheads. Fuck off.
I'm from Georgia, you know, that other original state, so YOU FUCK OFF, BEE-YACH!! : P

Also, don't blame me; I voted for Kerry. Nice troll, too -- but you should have used it in the "rural outsourcing" article.

Re:I love Apple, but fuck the south! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803524)

I'm from Georgia,

It's a shame about your accent.

Re:I love Apple, but fuck the south! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803575)

another doofus suffering from PEST [bocanews.com]

Net services company??? (1, Insightful)

Roadkills-R-Us (122219) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803314)

Someone didn't do their homework!

Re:Net services company??? (4, Informative)

ikewillis (586793) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803466)

By 1996 WebObjects was pretty much all NeXT had left after sales of NeXT and NeXT systems had plummeted to vitually nil.

Re:Net services company??? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803796)

sorry, i just have to know. How does the first viewable reply (as my settings go) get a redundant moderation??!?

pirst fost (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803315)

fucking die bitches

Typo (-1, Troll)

Taco John (771912) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803325)

The terms "former" and "latter" are only used when there are two options. So they shouldn't be in the story.

Re:Typo (-1, Offtopic)

init6 (24920) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803427)

Thanks Merriam-Webster

2 : of, relating to, or being the second of two groups or things or the last of several groups or things referred to

Re:Typo (2, Funny)

Taco John (771912) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803485)

Maybe I just saw that in a style guide or something. My, this is some good crow.

Re:Typo (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803850)

You actually are strictly correct but Merriam Webster typically adapts its definitions to fit more modern interpretations. Further and farther are a great example. Traditionally further is additional time while farther is additional distance but MW has given them both the identical definition.

Screenshots (5, Informative)

LiNKz (257629) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803330)

For awhile I was in search of the x86 version of Apple's Rhapsody DR2. Finally after speaking to a guy [toastytech.com] who created a page of screenshots [toastytech.com] , I found a beta software trading forum and grabbed an ISO of it. This guy also has screenshots of OpenStep [toastytech.com] too.. He's been running this site for years and its given me quite a nice look into the past. Its interesting never the less :)

Re:Screenshots (4, Interesting)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803368)

I got a copy of Rhapsody DR2 as well. It worked fine on my Intel Celeron 400mhz machine but I couldn't get my screenshots off the Rhapsody machine and onto my main desktop machine! It wouldn't read DOS formatted disks, and the networking didn't work...

So I just took some photos with my digital camera...

Either way the UI was totally cool. I wish Mac OS X looked more like Rhapsody, or even better, NeXT..

Re:Screenshots (0)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803450)

I've got Rhapsody, BeOS and Nextstep x86 all taking up space in my closet of abandoned computers. I'm thinking of selling all this crap off for around 5$ a pound.

Re:Screenshots (1)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803513)

Hey, I'll pay ya $5 for your Rhapsody disk! Gmail account is Valuation.

Re:Screenshots (1)

LiNKz (257629) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803551)

If its a real disk its something of a collectors item. ;)

Re:Screenshots (4, Interesting)

tonywong (96839) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803809)

From what I've seen, I think the biggest loss of the move from nextstep to openstep to cocoa has been the loss of nxhost. It's VNC, windows terminal services and X Windows all rolled into one.

For those not familiar with nxhost, here it is from http://www.channelu.com/NeXT/NeXTFAQ-new/NeXTFAQ.0 46.html

4.3 How do I run NextApps remotely?
Remote running
On the local machine make sure you have public window server access, this is set from the Preferences application. On the foreign NeXT machine run the application from a terminal window with the -NXHost . Both machines should be running the same version of NeXTstep.

Yeah, right... (5, Insightful)

El (94934) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803336)

And of course, the choice of NeXTStep had nothing to do with Next also being owned by Steve Jobs!

Re:Yeah, right... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803364)

Not that Steve owned Apple at the time.

Re:Yeah, right... (1)

bobalu (1921) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803375)

Hey, he had to do *something* with those $10k NEXT boxes.

Wonder what they go for on eBay now...

Re:Yeah, right... (3, Interesting)

javaxman (705658) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803461)

I dunno what they go for on eBay, but were they ever really $10k?? I thought they were more along the lines of $2-5k... and I should know. ;-)... maybe the dual-color-cubes could get up to $10k??

Some guy on ebay is selling an empty cube [ebay.com] , though, and it's already up to $78.

I bought my NeXT slab, monitor and laser printer for $150 or so from a coworker a few years ago...

No working systems are on ebay, though ( mine works ). And there seems to be some weird thing where these machines don't have their logos attached, what's that all about?

Anyway, NeXT had stopped making those boxes long before 1996 ( it was more like 1992-1993 that happened ), it's likely that a lot of folks at NeXT were using NeXTStep for Intel by 1996... now, where did I put my copy of NeXTStep for Intel?? Darn it...

Re:Yeah, right... (4, Informative)

bobalu (1921) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803627)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NeXT

The machines weren't ready for "real" sales until 1990, when they went on the market for $9999.

Guess my memory isn't completely shot yet. :-)

Re:Yeah, right... (2, Interesting)

javaxman (705658) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803795)

The machines weren't ready for "real" sales until 1990, when they went on the market for $9999.

What's that mean, 'real' sales?

I know I went to a nice university, but we had NeXT machines in pretty good numbers by 1991... I can't believe they were actually that much... then again, a hard drive was pretty pricy back then, I bet you could easily configure a machine at that price! But, uh, I'd take that number with a grain of salt, it's not like they sold only one model, and that's a wiki entry with no source to back it up...

Oh, BTW, I remembered the site that specializes in NeXT hardware is BlackHoleInc [blackholeinc.com] , get yer NeXTStation Turbo Color for a low, low $499 !!

Yea, all things considered, that's some hardware that's held it's value pretty well... try getting that for *any* PC from 1992!!

Re:Yeah, right... (4, Interesting)

Metzli (184903) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803817)

Actually, they were. Back in 1997 I had the pleasure of working with the NeXT machines in my roommates' labs. The Cadillac of their machines was a NeXT Dimension with 128MB RAM, 128MB video RAM, a 21" color display, a black-and-white laser printer, a color printer, a scanner, and a soundbox. I saw teh P.O. and that setup was about $18k. They had the lesser machines, a trio of Mono Turbos, alongside it. After working with that, going back home and using my 286 was _painful_.

Re:Yeah, right... (1)

spamsk8r (777897) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803835)

Wait, you were running a 286 in 1997? That was around the time the the Pentium Pros were available, why would you still run a 286?

Re:Yeah, right... (0, Redundant)

tyrione (134248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803478)

Psst. It was 50,000 NeXT boxes and having worked there it was more but that's neither here nor there.

Windows NT? Oh man.. (1)

necro2607 (771790) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803339)

Imagine how things would be today in the computing world if Apple had licensed NT... I'm very thankful they chose NeXT, especially seeing as how much their decision has influenced home computing technology and especially Apple themselves. We wouldn't have Mac OS X today if it wasn't for that decision. Who knows if Mac OS would even exist still?

Re:Windows NT? Oh man.. (0, Offtopic)

Mysticalfruit (533341) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803601)

Imagine how things would have been today if Jobs had gotten beaten by the fucking clue stick and had bought BeOS instead.

Imagine Aqua running on top of BeOS. *shrugs* Ah, what never was and what should have been.

Just remeber everytime your using OSX, it could have been even better.

Re:Windows NT? Oh man.. (2, Insightful)

Moofie (22272) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803772)

It wasn't Jobs' decision. It was Gil Amelio's decision. Jobs was running NeXT, and came as a free pack-in with the company.

You think Gassee could have revolutionized Apple? No chance. Period. Apple would be dead.

Re:Windows NT? Oh man.. (4, Funny)

nosferatu-man (13652) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803804)

Yeah, I think my Mac'd really be improved by not being able to print, run multi-user, or have a working TCP/IP stack. Be was never even close to technically polished enough to be a realistic replacement for Copland.

Re:Windows NT? Oh man.. (2, Insightful)

spamsk8r (777897) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803856)

I was Gassee's fault that the deal didn't go through anyways. He asked for WAY too much money. Apple priced Be at about $200 million, even though they were worth much less, but Gassee was asked half a billion. His pride ended up shooting him in the foot.

NT? (3, Funny)

plj (673710) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803340)

Amongst Apple's other options were to license (-- --) NT from Microsoft

Ouch. The thought alone makes me vomit...

Re:NT? (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803784)

The NT kernel was mostly designed by a team a DEC engineers [wikipedia.org] (including Dave Cutler) bought out by microsoft after they couldn`t design the os the wanted at DEC. (They worked on VMS). The NT kernel design is imho the only piece of software developed somewhat within microsoft but still with an actual design behind it. Compared to the patch upon patch shell, office, mail stuff, servers that arent bought from elseware and of course browser... the NT kernel is based on a vision. It has a microkernel-ish design, is designed to run on every processor architecture people can make up, it can have many API`s (win32, os/2, posix) and has a security architecture that works provided you dont give everyone and everything administrative privileges by default that is. What other modern operating system allows for ACL`s on individual configuration settings?

The idea of apple considering both mach and NT makes sense, they are more alike then mach and most "unix" kernels. Ofcourse the idea of Apple being stupid and taking both the kernel *and* the rest from windows does make one vomit...

BeOS (4, Interesting)

tootired (91527) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803347)

While I am a huge fan of MacOS X, I wonder what would have happened if they bought Be and used their cash to evolve it instead of ressurecting NeXT?

It's true that Apple currently employs several key Be developers, but I think the Mac platform would eb even further ahead if they went with Be.

Just my .02

Re:BeOS (5, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803392)

It means that I, for one, would not be using a Mac right now. The UNIX-ness is important to me.

I think they should have bought both, though -- maybe they would have come out with Spotlight sooner.

Re:BeOS (1)

tootired (91527) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803462)

I am also posting this from a Mac, but as I recall, Be had a posix compliant layer and could have eventually had full unix support added-in via some sort of virtualization software.

The technique Microsoft used to emulate 16 bit windows comes to mind as a seamless way to integrate such capabilities.

I know, giving credit to Microsoft is frowned upon at /., but hey, give credit where it's due.

Re:BeOS (3, Insightful)

Rude Turnip (49495) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803481)

BeOS was UNIX-ish. It was working towards POSIX compliance IIRC and has a Bash shell and Unix-like file permissions system set up. It had the ability to become multi-user if it was developed further.

Re:BeOS (4, Insightful)

pohl (872) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803783)

Emphasis on the "ish". It was not yet capable of multiple, simultaneous users. I think Apple did the right thing by going with a mature kernel. It meant that there was a metric shit-ton of work that they did not have to do.

Re:BeOS (2, Informative)

prockcore (543967) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803678)

It means that I, for one, would not be using a Mac right now. The UNIX-ness is important to me.

BeOS is posix compatible, has all the GNU tools you expect and the default shell is based on Bash.

BeOS was heavily influenced by XINU.

Re:BeOS (5, Interesting)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803468)

"I think the Mac platform would eb even further ahead if they went with Be."

As a licensed BeOS devloper who still has a Rev2 BeBox sitting around I must say you're wrong. BeOS was NEVER as far along as Nextstep was even when taking into acount the hardware transition. BeOS had poor to no network or print servies. We where promissed that they would be released "real soon now" for years. Granted what Be had was better then the same stuff on Next. But Be lacked a lot of very important stuff.

Re:BeOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803629)

Nope.

I'll give you the file system. I'll give you the BeBox with dual processor and the DSP co-processor. I'll even give you the Geek Port.

But the development platform is way ahead of BeOS. The UI subsystem (Display Postscript), the 3DKit, DBkit, yadda, all way ahead.

I even like the NextStep GUI better the OSX.

And the Next Cube looked so much better than the BeBox. Oh wait, Next had a DSP co-processor too. I take that one back.

Re:BeOS (1)

Goo.cc (687626) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803757)

The two knocks that I have seen constantly mentioned about BeOS was that it had problems with really big applications and (IIRC) that multithreading was required for every application.

Still, BeOS has to be one of my favorite all time operating systems. It was quick as lightning and it is the only operating system (that I have used) that really made good of extended attributed in a file system.

Like others, I moved to Mac OS X from BeOS.

Re:BeOS (1)

Lord Kano (13027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803823)

How much do you want for that BeBox?

LK

Re:BeOS (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803522)

They got Jobs. That alone probably did more for the Mac platform (iPod, iTunes store, iMac, focusing their product line) than any technical merit Be would have had over NeXT. He can be an ass, but he really did turn Apple around financially.

Re:BeOS (1)

Moofie (22272) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803740)

Gassee wanted too much money for not enough OS.

That, and I don't think Gil Amelio could have turned Apple around the way Jobs did.

Hey, faggots; NeXT SUCKED (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803354)

and we don't care abuot your faggy OS blechs

Steve Jobs (0)

marktaw.com (816752) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803356)

or to purchase a small net services company called NeXT ... that happened to be founded by Apple founder Steve Jobs.

BeOS (1)

magicsquid (85985) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803357)

I can't be the only one who thought it was a mistake for Apple to forgoe purchasing Be and instead go with NeXT, but it doesn't appear to have worked out too bad for Apple now.

Re:BeOS (1)

tenton (181778) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803799)

You weren't the only one, but given those choices back then, I was in the NeXT camp. There were quite a few people favoring Be instead, though.

Rhapsody on Intel (1)

haruchai (17472) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803366)

Well, a couple of weeks ago, I tried to install Rhapsody DR2 on an x86 box and also using an emulator. Unfortunately, I couldn't get started since the CD isn't bootable and the filesystem isn't ISO9660.
Does anyone know where I can get floppy images?
Thanks in advance.

Re:Rhapsody on Intel (1)

LiNKz (257629) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803417)

email mail ta daunity tod org and i'll send you them.

Try Openstep 4.2 disks.. (1)

itomato (91092) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803794)

I'm not sure if it will work, but I'm reasonably sure it will.

The only reason I can think of is that the disk partition type is slightly different..

You can't read your Rhapsody partitions on a NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP box..

NeXT background (5, Informative)

close_wait (697035) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803369)

purchase a small net services company called NeXT

They fail to mention that NeXT was the company set up by Steve Jobs after he left apple, with the mission to produce a next-generation Mac-like workstation with an OS called NeXTstep, based on mach, BSD and display Postscript

apple (0)

kirkb (158552) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803397)

With the beginning of 1996, Apple realized that with the next generation PC's running Windows NT to be released within the decade, they would need a new, modern operating system to run on their machines.

Apple needed a solution to the classic OS's problems regardless of what 'next generation PC's' would be doing, right? Did apple really look to the PC world for cues?

Amongst Apple's other options were to license Solaris from Sun, NT from Microsoft, or to purchase a small net services company called NeXT. Apple chose the latter

Did apple *choose* Next, or did Steve Jobs simply decree it? Were apple engineers involved in this 'choice'?

Re:apple (1, Offtopic)

goMac2500 (741295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803510)

Steve couldn't have decreed anything because he was in charge of NeXT, not Apple. When Apple bought NeXT that was when Steve got back in to Apple.

So yes, Apple engineers were involved in the choice. Steve only resumed being CEO of Apple around 1997.

Re:apple (2, Informative)

oberondarksoul (723118) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803512)

Did apple *choose* Next, or did Steve Jobs simply decree it? Were apple engineers involved in this 'choice'?

Remember who Jobs was working for - NeXT. A Jobsian decree didn't mean anything at all at Apple in those days - the company was in the (in)capable hands of Gil Amelio. It wasn't until after the NeXT purchase that Jobs managed to oust Amelio, and assume the role of 'iCEO'.

Re:apple (2, Funny)

cosmo7 (325616) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803682)

Woz: "Gil Amelio meets Steve Jobs. Game Over."

The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy (0, Redundant)

3770 (560838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803402)

I remember a collegue that got one of those. They were soo cool.

And in retrospect, I wonder if the Mac that was a clear plastic cube was based off of that?

Steve Jobs was running NeXT when the NeXT cube came out and he was in charge of apple when the plastic cube Mac came out?

Coincidence? Probably not.

Tin foil hats on!

Umm... wait a minute. It isn't really a conspiracy.

Tin foil hats off.

Where was I? Oh yeah. The NeXT cube. Sexy.

Re:The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy (1, Funny)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803484)

"The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy"

And they burn like nobody's business. Seriously, whos idea was it to make the things out of several pounds of magnesium?

Re:The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803553)

It takes a lot of energy to get that magnesium to ignite. It isn't like you can just burn one down with a match,or even a book of matches.

NeXT isn't the only computer company to use magnesium for case material - lots of laptops do today, even my Valentine-1 radar detector has a magnesium case.

Re:The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy (1)

cmowire (254489) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803567)

Actually, they didn't [simson.net] burn so well.

Most metals, if divided finely enough, will burn. Titanium burns *nicely*. Yet you can make the body of a Mach-3 aircraft out of it and there's no problems.

Re:The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy (1)

oberondarksoul (723118) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803577)

And they burn like nobody's business. Seriously, whos idea was it to make the things out of several pounds of magnesium?

Erm, no, they don't. When a Cube was being set fire to for the purposes of a magazine cover, it simply wouldn't catch until they doused it in kerosene and used natural gas to torch it. Not nearly as flammable as you make out.

Re:The NeXT cube was sooooo sexy (2, Informative)

oberondarksoul (723118) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803621)

Forgot to post the link - clicky here [simson.net]

Ignition point of Magnesium (2, Interesting)

garyisabusyguy (732330) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803651)

This is for 99% Magnesium, alloys may take a higher temp to reach point of auto-ignition

http://www.jtbaker.com/msds/englishhtml/m0088.ht m

Fire:
Autoignition temperature: 473C (883F)
When heated in air to a temperature near its melting point, magnesium may ignite and burn. Dangerous in the form of dust or flakes, and when exposed to flame or by violent chemical reaction with oxidizing agents. Magnesium may react with moisture or acids to evolve hydrogen gas, which is a highly dangerous fire or explosion hazard.

Autoignition temperature is for Magnesium turnings or ribbon.
Explosion:
Fine dust dispersed in air in sufficient concentrations, and in the presence of an ignition source is a potential dust explosion hazard. Minimum explosible concentration 0.030 grams/liter. Water used on molten magnesium will produce hydrogen gas and may cause an explosion.
Fire Extinguishing Media:
Use metal extinguishing powders such as G-1® graphite powder, Met-L-X® powder, powdered talc, dry graphite, powdered sodium chloride, soda ash, or dry sand. Warning! Do not use foam, chlorinated products such as Halon®, carbon dioxide, or water to extinguish magnesium fires, because dangerous reactions will occur. Use of water on molten magnesium will produce hydrogen gas and may cause an explosion.
Special Information:
In the event of a fire, wear full protective clothing and NIOSH-approved self-contained breathing apparatus with full facepiece operated in the pressure demand or other positive pressure mode. Fire fighters should protect their eyes and skin from flying particles. In order to prevent eye injury, do not look directly at magnesium fires.

Well, there was another choice. (4, Interesting)

singularity (2031) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803403)

The blurb is not quite complete. Apple decided it did not have time to develop a next-generation operating system. Copland was pretty much dead in the water.

At the time, also available was the BeOS. A lot of Mac die-hards at the time, myself included, thought that Apple purchasing Be and using that would make the most sense.

From my memory, I seem to remember that Be wanted more money than Apple was willing to spend. It could have also had something to do with the fact that the head of Be, Jean Louis Gassée, was a former Apple man and there was probably some politics there. In addition, NeXT had Steve Jobs and all the personality that went along with that.

I would be interested in reading some of the discussions that went along with passing up Be in favor of NeXT.

It would be interesting reading to see what might have developed out of a Macintosh + Be combination (as opposed to the Macintosh + NeXT we have now).

The choice. (5, Informative)

juuri (7678) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803455)

BeOS was a nonstarter.

The printing was horrid.

The development environment was awful, contrasted to the robust tools available on NeXTSTEP at the time.

NeXT had real mult-user capability. BeOS was only brought in as a bargaining chip and to entice Jobs to come onboard. BeOS at the time was really impressive on a Mac, especially if you couldn't stomach MacOS... but I ran BeOS @work and NeXTSTEP @home, the choice was readily apparent to people who actually used both systems.

Re:The choice. (1, Funny)

lawpoop (604919) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803496)

...but I ran BeOS @work and NeXTSTEP @home...

Wow, I never knew there was distributed network to solve the BeOS and NeXTEP data sets!

Re:The choice. (-1, Offtopic)

Cryptnotic (154382) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803793)

Somehow that guy finds it easier to type "@" than "at". Both require two keypresses. You could argue that the @ version is more difficult since it requires a shift and the "at" version actually uses one home row letter, so it should be easier. My guess is that this guy is a non-native English speaker who thinks that @ is cooler than "at".

The real reason Apple didn't choose Be (4, Insightful)

artemis67 (93453) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803619)

...was that JLG kept jacking up the price. He saw that Apple was running out of time and options, and thought that Be was the only viable option for Apple at that point. I think that his attitude left Gil Amelio and the rest of the Apple board cold.

Of course, Apple spent far more to acquire NeXT, but they got Steve Jobs along with it, which was easily worth as much as the operating system.

Can you imagine JLG as Apple CEO, trying to push fruity-colored iMacs? It just wouldn't have happened...

Re:The real reason Apple didn't choose Be (1)

tenton (181778) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803825)

Not only did they spend more, but they got a whole lot more, in terms of the OS. Be was an OS with great potential, but there was still a lot to be done. NeXT was much more polished and mature; it made more sense to me at the time that Apple went with NeXT.

Re:Well, there was another choice. (1)

lngtones (555194) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803847)

Be got greedy: The Acquisition of NEXT [macspeedzone.com]

Wikipedia Link (1)

googleaseerch (682399) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803412)

Yeah, umm... Someone might want to take that one off the article.

Re:Wikipedia Link (1)

googleaseerch (682399) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803431)

Ok, sure, fix it by the time I finish posting. Ok, nevermind then.

Re:Wikipedia Link (1)

sH4RD (749216) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803707)

I'm fast aren't I :D

Re:Wikipedia Link (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803434)

Why's that, asshole?

well duh! (1)

museumpeace (735109) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803432)

How hard would it be for Apple to choose a product from one of Steve Job's old companies [vnunet.com] ?

Looked myself a few days back.... (3, Informative)

Richard_at_work (517087) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803437)

and found this [kernelthread.com] which looked to be fairly indepth about the history of the Mac OS, including some information on what was taken from what and went into what.

NeXT Cube (1)

Poromenos1 (830658) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803438)

That was a nice idea, they should release Macs in shapes. Spheres, pyramids, or even woman-shaped pcs, for the more unfortunate of us!

Woman-shaped PCs.... (2, Interesting)

MsGeek (162936) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803806)

You mean like this? [animechobits.com] Or perhaps maybe more like this? [cside.com]

The NeXT big thing (5, Interesting)

RealProgrammer (723725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803470)

I first used NeXTStep in about 1989, when NeXT was still a hardware company.

NeXT made a big splash in the trade magazines by using standard UNIX industry hardware like the 680x0 processor, standard RAM, SCSI drives, etc. They did some neat stuff like having a 600M rewritable optical disk, unheard of capacity at the time. Unfortunately, no one else followed suit.

The big thing was the apps, though. Everything was done in Postscript, and there were several desktop publishing applications. As a math student at the time, Mathematica made my jaw drop. I figured out how to use it under ASCII mode via dialup, and checked all my homework that way.

The programming environment was interesting, though I never really delved into it. Underneath (or beside) the pretty GUI there was a 4.3BSD system with a Mach kernel. I was mostly interested in this compiler they had for it, gcc. They wanted you to copy it! And hunting around the ftp sites I found this new scripting language, perl, that was really great.

Too bad stuff like that will never catch on.

Re:The NeXT big thing (1)

DrJay (102053) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803684)

I think NeXT never made it out of the 3.x series in terms of BSD capabilities. Apple was certainly way behind BSD when they first released OS-X (but damn, they caught up fast), and i think it took to 10.2 to get up to speed with the 4.x series.

I can't remember what BSD came for free as part of Mach - it may be NeXT was really lazy about this and never updated the BSD from the Mach default.

JT

Re:The NeXT big thing (1)

RealProgrammer (723725) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803769)

I think NeXT never made it out of the 3.x series in terms of BSD capabilities.

No, it was certainly 4BSD. It may have been 4.2, though. 3BSD didn't even have virtual memory. See a timeline [healconsulting.com] .

They weren't real good about updating the OS, though, especially after money got tight. Or maybe it was always tight.

The key purchase: Jobs and Unix (4, Insightful)

EricHsu (578881) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803502)

That's what it boils down to. You can argue technically whether BeOS could have worked (too risky, I think), or Solaris could have flown (too dependant on a rival, I think).

Bottom line: Going NeXT saved Apple by getting Steve Jobs back and getting OS X based on Unix BSD. Steve Jobs might be a crazy man, a meglomaniac, whatever, but he has vision and taste and the drive to force others to follow his vision. The interregnum of Sculley et al was consumed with internal fighting and a zillion product teams smashing each other.

Also, the move to NeXT helped Apple acquire OS rock-solid stability and the Alpha Geek population, as O'Reilly puts it. So now, even though market share is sitting around 5%, OS X is still guaranteed lots of cool stuff.

And finally Tiger is going to start pulling in some of those BeOS metadata ideas...

Vandalism on Wikipedia? (1)

loony (37622) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803545)

Off topic but muahahah - look at the history of the NeXTstep article on Wikipedia - someone messed it up and replaced NeXTstep with Hitler and stuff like that - now its locked :-)

Peter.

Re:Vandalism on Wikipedia? (2, Interesting)

MonkeyCookie (657433) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803634)

Ever since that article was linked to on Slashdot, there have been numerous vandalisms by Slashdot trolls and revisions to the previous version.

The link actually goes to a page that redirects you to the real article. When I went there, someone had vandalised the redirection page to be just blank. I was initially confused, realized that it was a vandalism, and when I went to revert it, I found that in those few seconds someone else had already done it.

So although the increased traffic is resulting in more vandalism, it's also resulting in more oversight, so it all evens out in the end.

It's amusing to look at the history and see what various vandalisms were done. There's a lot of typical Slashdot trolls, so it's obvious a lot of vandals are Slashdot users.

Wikipedia page attacked... (1)

sH4RD (749216) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803578)

Someone decided to screw with the Wikipedia page. Nice work ass.

Use this link to go to the real NeXT info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEXTSTEP [wikipedia.org]

Re:Wikipedia page attacked... (1)

sH4RD (749216) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803600)

Fixed the wikipedia page myself, but if someone screws with it again use that link.

Interesting phenomenon (-1, Offtopic)

rubee (826908) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803613)

We've outsourced US work oversea so much that now, since people are willing to work for such low wages (combined with more advanced forms of telecommuting), we soon may be able to insource work. That would be an interesting trend.

This Article is riddled with inaccuracies. (5, Interesting)

tyrione (134248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803626)

  • Steve Jobs didn't ask the board to oust Gil Amelio (I know I know, working there had me not seeing the forrest for the trees). Steve's frustrations resided in the fact that Gil didn't listen to his advice on what to do with the direction of the company: What's the point of being a Special Consultant if your years of experience in this industry gets ignored? He was fed up and was ready to spend more time at PIXAR, which really doesn't like Steve's nitpicking but just his skill at negotiation. Fred Anderson came to Steve and asked him to return--his trump to Steve was they already wanted to get rid of Gil. Steve insisted on being able to revamp the board and begin by settling the Microsoft bad public relations.
  • We at NeXT were in the middle of filing for an IPO as a WebObjects Enterprise Company. We lost one hell of a CFO during the merger.
  • NeXT Engineers began working with the Linux team at Apple to piggy back a non-commercially released version of Openstep onto PowerPC architecture. The idiot wars to parallel what the OS should be and not be have continued since 1997. In two more releases we'll finally get an OS that all the Mac Zealots will accept actually was the original intent of OS X. Glad to see it took forever to drown out the whining.
  • "Unlike OPENSTEP, users were able to save files directly to the desktop." --This was a design choice Keith Ohlfs, Steve Jobs and several others specifically didn't want in NeXTSTEP that obviously carried over to Openstep:: A non-cluttered Desktop to keep the clean, minimalistic look; hence THE SHELF: Reuse via the Shelf which is a collection of symlinks to files.
  • "Ultimately, Quartz performed better than Display PostScript, while maintaining very high output quality." --Ultimately PDF cost Apple nothing to license and Peter Grafanino(sorry if I spelled your last name wrong Pete--you are a genius and always will be) and his team who developed Quartz chose PDF firstly for cost saving measures and then to extend it in their own rights.
  • "Microsoft, Adobe, Macromedia and Quark, the keystone of Macintosh development, had all yet to release their flagship products for OS X, and in the case of Quark, would not until two years later." --They didn't release their products because they insisted upon CARBON.

Now that Cocoa is finally getting its just dues how long before we see replacements to these Gorillas? They didn't want to invest in Cocoa programming then, but now six years later will they have taken the time to find the talent to do it now? Hard to tell but these are my predictions.

If they don't they'll be left behind. Adobe sees it by Apple entering into the market with better products.

Macromedia sees it but lets see if they really see it.

Quark seems to be the most cautious and I'm guessing they'll hedge their bets and have invested in such talent already.

Microsoft? Never. They'll figure that Office will always guarantee them supremacy in the platform. Then again I'm sure they'll be quite pissed if Apple releases a compatible Office suite worthy of knocking off Office. Afterall, XML is the measure of compatibility on all future Office suites.

The last section is obviously just conjecture but conjecture with history.

NeXT Cool in its Day (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803637)

I remember lusting after one of these, but, as with many things Apple, it was pricey. Several years back I worked for a company which had some great vision and was going to go 100% NeXT. Sadly, leadership changes and whatnot make it like many companies out there, a Frankenstein IT; a little of this, a little of that, and trying to keep it all going happily if the power goes out or someone kicks a network connector out of the wall.

Rhapsody DR2 x86 Developers (5, Informative)

not_hylas( ) (703994) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803652)

For the x86 freaks, your only hope for an Apple menu on a bare metal x86
They're making headway - mine runs.

http://www.rhapsody-project.tk/

A VERY cool resource.

http://www.shawcomputing.net/

Stone

http://www.stone.com/dev/StonesThrow21/Whats_New _I n_DR2.html

Of course, never forget about GNUstep!! (5, Informative)

borgheron (172546) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803676)

I can't let this topic go without a mention...

http://www.gnustep.org

Please take a look!

Thanks, GJC

A Small future. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10803681)

I'll stick this back here. What do people think about a Darwin kernel, and Smalltalk framework, coupled with some of the lates graphics technology?

Like? Dislike?

Re:A Small future. (1, Interesting)

cmowire (254489) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803819)

Why does any of that matter?

Why the Darwin kernel? Why not the Linux kernel -- it's got the best hardware support. What about the L4 microkernel that has incredibly fast messaging rates?

Why Smalltalk? Why not Ruby or Objective-C or Python? Or maybe ML? All of them are pretty flexible and configurable languages with some nice rapid-development features.

Why the latest graphics technology? What makes a modern graphics system inherrently better in any relatively substantial way, other than sheer bandwidth and 3D rasterization performance.

Mostly, what you need is a clueful UI, which is really independent of any programming properties. You need the OS to not get in the way of blasting data around so that it can play media fast enough. You need the OS to have a low latency so that it can react to input fast enough.

But, most of all, you need useful applications.

All of these things are independent of each other. A crappy kernel, a crappy framework, and bad graphics technology can still have useful applications.

Against The Grain? (3, Interesting)

Goo.cc (687626) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803699)

I am probably one of the few people who prefered NeXTStep to Mac OS X. Some of the (IMHO) reasons:

-the user interface was better
-file management was better
-Digital Webster
-no bar fixed across the top of the screen

Excited by old articles in Byte magazine, I bought a used NeXT Mono-Station from Sam Goldberger, who ran a company called Spherical Solutions. It ran great and I loved it. But when I wanted to buy a copy of Openstep 4 for my PC, NeXT wanted somewhere in the neighborhood of $900.00 for it. I think that had a lot to do with NeXT's inability to compete in the PC market.

Today, I run a PowerMac G4 with Mac OS X 1.3.6.

BeOS (1)

pbjones (315127) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803742)

You forgot the almost purchase of BeOS, just before Jobs returned.

Anyone know what happened to blue - pink - red? (1)

cant_get_a_good_nick (172131) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803750)

Back in my more hard-core Mac days I remember their OS roadmap was:
System 7, code named Blue
Taligent (Joint IBM project, never did anything) - Pink.
And there was Red, what the hell was Red? This was supposed to be the real far-out stuff.

I don't think it was Copland, that seemed more of a stopgap from the implosion of Taligent.

Mac OS X history (2, Informative)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 9 years ago | (#10803838)

For info about the evolution of NextStep to OS X, the Mac OS X history [wikipedia.org] article is also worth reading.
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