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Solaris 10 Released, Updated & Free (Like Speech)

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the trying-to-remain-cutting-edge dept.

Sun Microsystems 363

Sivar writes "Ace's Hardware and news.com.com.com report Solaris that 10 has been released. Improvements include a performance-enhanced TCP-IP stack to shed the "Slowaris" moniker and their much-vaunted ZFS (Z File System). Solaris will initially be "free" (as in beer with an annual subscription fee for bug fixes and support), and will reportedly be released under an open-source license later." As well, KingSkippus writes "MSNBC reports, "After investing roughly $500 million and spending years of development time on its next-generation operating system, Sun Microsystems Inc. on Monday will announce an aggressive price for the software -- free. Sun also has promised make the underlying code of Solaris available under an open-source license, though the details have not been released." An article at Computerworld also has the story from Jonathan Schwartz, Sun's president and chief operating officer."

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363 comments

Woot! (3, Funny)

superpixel2000 (777844) | more than 9 years ago | (#10818966)

Can't wait to cram it into my iBook ;-)

Re:Woot! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10818999)

what kind of comment is that? mr. fp?

ibook-schmibook. get a real mans/womans laptop like an ULTRA BOOK, bitches!

Re:Woot! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819071)

Does your iBook have an x86 or UltraSPARC processor?

Not Free as in Speech, but Free as in Beer (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819235)

Read the article.

solaris, not slowlaris, dumbass (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10818971)

slowlaris? what planet have you been living on motherfucker?

Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (5, Funny)

digid (259751) | more than 9 years ago | (#10818976)

Is it me or has slashdot named today as National Upgrade Day?

Re:Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (1)

brilinux (255400) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819024)

It is nice to know that there is someone else out there who has been up all night reading Slashdot (and, in my case, debugging programs for 15111). Unless you are from a daytime part of the world. Fool. As far as upgrading goes, though, I replaced Gentoo with FreeBSD 5.3, I have never used Redhat or its variants, and I sure as heck will not use Solaris. Oh, well. I need an espresso.

Re:Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (1)

ForestGrump (644805) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819049)

no, microsoft hasn't released anything today.
*ducks and hides*

Re:Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819310)

Does that mean that Windows users upgrade their viruses today?

Re:Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (5, Funny)

KilobyteKnight (91023) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819328)

no, microsoft hasn't released anything today.

But I'm sure some virus writers have released a few updates for Windows.

(Oh, stop your groaning, you were thinking it)

Re:Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819109)

Nope, it's actually Global ABM day...

Anything

But

Microsoft

Re:Gentoo, Fedora and now Solaris (3, Funny)

djcapelis (587616) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819179)

For gentoo users, everyday is National Upgrade Day!

(MODS: If you don't get this... you don't use portage or you don't sync once a day.)

Well (0)

Ambient_Developer (825456) | more than 9 years ago | (#10818978)

Well boys and girls this is what we have been all waiting for, and SUN is once again strutting it's stuff! Good bye to SCO, and hello to Solaris! Not only that, think how much better this will make linux. I am really happy about this one. Everyone buy SUN stock!

Re:Well (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10818988)

That should be: Hello Sun/Microsoft patent cross licensing deal!

Read and weep!

Re:Well (1)

Hatta (162192) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819275)

A free OS is nice, but you need software to run on it. Is there anything like BSD ports for Solaris, or do we have to do everything by hand?

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819340)

http://www.blastwave.org/
enjoy!

Re:Well (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819368)

http://www.sunfreeeware.com is your best starting point. Plenty of local mirrors to choose from as well.

You can use a script pkg-get to have a 'ports' feel. http://www.sunfreeware.com/pkg-get.html

All the best,

Al.ze

does it still suck to install and configure? (1)

discogravy (455376) | more than 9 years ago | (#10818983)

without a doubt, solaris has been the biggest pain to set up out of ANY unix i've installed (admittedly, mostly *BSDs and Linuxes). When does the sparc version get JDS?

Re:does it still suck to install and configure? (4, Informative)

Mark Round (211258) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819032)

JDS (version 3) is present in the current Solaris Express builds, so should be in the final product.

download links (2, Informative)

pchan- (118053) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819058)

download Solaris 10 for SPARC or x86 [sun.com].

the terminology on the site is a bit confusing, but what they label as the "Software Express" iso is the Solaris installer

Re:download links (4, Informative)

dohcvtec (461026) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819289)

That is a link to Download Solaris Express (Solaris 10 Beta), not Solaris 10. Sun has been releasing (mostly) monthly builds of Solaris Express, and there have been quite a few advancements and improvements over Solaris 9. I think Solaris 10 is going to be a big release, but we'll all have to wait until later to download it: the announcement of Solaris 10 isn't until 12:30 PDT today, and the actual release of Solaris 10 probably won't be available until a later date. The most recent beta build (b69) says SunOS 5.10 December 2004 from either a uname or in /etc/release :(

Re:does it still suck to install and configure? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819205)

What made Solaris worse than AIX or HP-UX?

Previous Versions... (4, Informative)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 9 years ago | (#10818992)

Previous versions of Solaris were quite expensive...

Solaris 9 [sun.com]

Solaris 8 [sun.com]

Before the Dawn of Time [sun.com]

Re:Previous Versions... (1)

kormoc (122955) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819073)

ya, I got two copys of Solaris 9 on dvd from linux world of last year, they were handing them out to anyone who wanted one, so I grabed a x86 and a spac version

Re:Previous Versions... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819332)

more like they *USED* to be expensive... they are free now...

Hmmm, focus group, anyone? (3, Interesting)

rocjoe71 (545053) | more than 9 years ago | (#10818998)

So are there people out there really chomping-at-the-bit to do Solaris open-source projects?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just curious to know what sort of a gap Linux/BSD left behind that Sun felt the need to fill...

Re:Hmmm, focus group, anyone? (5, Insightful)

draggin_fly (807754) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819034)

It's not so much a matter of people developing for Solaris because that won't happen except in an expensive commercial setting; it's about Solaris becomming more and more like another version of Linux. That's a good thing. As someone who has to administer a variety of Sun hardware, I'm happy. The Sun product line is among the best. What I want from Sun is more compliance with OpenSource projects and that's what the company is giving me. From the Linux developer end, Solaris may become just another platform, more like Red Hat or SuSE than AIX or HP-UX.

Re:Hmmm, focus group, anyone? (2, Interesting)

pchan- (118053) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819123)

well, i wouldn't say i would develop an open-source project for solaris specifically, but sometimes you want or need to try to compile your program on another platform. i personally don't have access to a solaris machine, but now i can download and install it for free and test my software on it. if someone submits a bug on solaris, i can verify it, and if someone says that it doesn't work on sparc i can narrow it down from solaris bug to solaris-sparc bug if it works on my x86 install.

Re:Hmmm, focus group, anyone? (1)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819207)

You could have done this for years. Solaris has been available free for development since at least solaris 8 if i'm not mistaken.

Yeah right (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819216)

I think this is a Sun marketing ploy.

I dont think Sun will release Soalris 10 in its entirety under gPL or BSD style license, I think they want to gain marketshare by people thinking it eventually will be and/or by getting people to talk about it.

Good idea (1)

Folmer (827037) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819006)

It seems that Red Hat and others live good on support only, so this new price scheme might bring sun ahead of linux again... I have a sun server running in the basement (appartment complex), but noone here knows much about solaris.. I guess that we will stay at version 9, as it works now and arent accessible from the internet so security arent really a factor..

Free and open source? (0, Flamebait)

poptones (653660) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819007)

Just like Java [javalobby.org], huh?

Open source does not always equate with free (as in speech). Do we really need to cover this (yet) again?

Re:Free and open source? (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819147)

I took "free as in speech" to mean "sure, you can speak freely now, but we'll exact a stiff price from you at some point in the future".

Re:Free and open source? (3, Insightful)

iCEBaLM (34905) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819149)

Yes it does. If it's not Free (as in speech) then it's not Open, it would be closed.

Simply because you can see the code does not make it open source, you have to be able to modify it and also share those modifications for it to be open.

Re:Free and open source? (3, Interesting)

omb (759389) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819327)

Having recently re-read ESR's Cathederal and Bazar paper, I come increasingly to understand that one, perhaps the _most_ important benefit of OpenSource is is that it provides an effective mechanism of _feature_moderation_.

This provides some level of isolation from Design Despots inside academia or corporations and especially from the marketing departments of corporations, for whom no feature is too silly. Anyone who wants a concerete example of this just need to look at the Java implementation of Regular Expressions or Date-formatting.

For years I used to oppose DEC sending only marketeers to DECUS and to encourage them to invite a cross section of engineering 'nerds'; in retrospect I suspect that this helped prevent the capture of design exclusively by marketing

The failure to include many GNU products, by default, in Solaris Distributions, is the same thing. Without Linux Perl would still not ship with Solaris; ingnorant design despots within the cathederal would have continued an effective veto!

Free as in speech? (-1, Troll)

SirDrinksAlot (226001) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819013)

If its free as in speech its free everywhere in the world but the US. If you plan on using Solaris 10 in the US you will get called a terrorist!

Solaris is great! (5, Funny)

Sai Babu (827212) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819017)


In spite of:
Start jumbo patch download.
Head off to the bar.
Come home, pass out, wake up after noon

Check download, yee harrr almost done.
Have dinner
Check download, YES, start patch.
Leave for Cancun vacation.
(three weeks later) back from Cancun
Patch almost complete, clean gutters, mow lawn, wash car.
Ahhhh, now we're ready to rock and roll...

Maybe it's time to retire the SS2. You think?
Damn thing just keeps on ticking!

Re:Solaris is great! (2, Insightful)

thogard (43403) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819094)

You run Solaris on a SS2? God intended only BSD flavor unixes for the SS1 and SS2 so you should sun os 4.1.4 with its patches and enough bsd and gnu utils so your tab completion still works. The SS2 is only what 13 years old these days? Put a real OS on it and it should keep going at least as long as my SS1 which only about 15 years old now and still kicking. How many /. readers aren't that old :-)

Re:Solaris is great! (1)

Sai Babu (827212) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819132)

Yes, I know.
"for the SS1 and SS2 so you should sun os 4.1.4 with its patches and enough bsd and gnu utils so your tab completion still works."
Seriously, I would like to put the 3/80 (Motorola in SS1-2 style enclosure) back to work.

Have fun!

Patience... (2, Interesting)

PornMaster (749461) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819099)

I guess you're not a Gentoo user, eh?

Of course, if you had an Optimum Online cable modem, it would be more like...

Start patch cluster download
Get coffee
Install patch cluster

As for the speed of the patch installation, yeah, time to retire an SS2... though you wouldn't be putting Solaris 10 on an SS2 anyway... though you can get an Ultra 5 or an Ultra Enterprise 2 for less than a water cooling kit for your Athlon 64.

Re:Solaris is great! (2, Interesting)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819116)

Administering Solaris has been, traditionally, as much work as administering 3 different Linux releases at the same time. The subtle distinctions between their various compilers, the oddness they did to X, and their refusal to replace their various shells and command line utilities like "compress" with the vastly superior open source tools like "gzip" meant that to do any real work, you had to spend a huge amount of time porting over your tools both ways. And porting Solaris code to the non-Solaris world is often quite difficult.

I hope this change encourages Sun to go the open source route on core utilities, and spend their development time on the kernel and the compiler. While their hardware has been interesting, I really feel that it's not going to be a big driver for them in the face of AMD's now stable and quite inexpensive 64-bit architectures, which is the market where Sun should have focused their hardware development for the last 5 years.

Re:Solaris is great! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819193)

My my my... you guys are poo. (With the exception of our SunOS friend up there, and the 3/80 guy..)

Why don't you lot pick up a good book on SPARC assembler, and I don't mean the Richard Paul book, I mean "Panic!" and the SPARC v9 Arch manual, and teach yourself something good, rather than batter on about fucking Gentoo this, and w00t that, and how k-r4d your new nvidia card is... One day, some roving psycho is going to rise from the ranks and slaughter all you 17 yr old yankee slaqrz..

It will be accepted in the mainstream (1, Funny)

eclectro (227083) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819036)

When it earns the GNU/Solaris moniker.

Funky definition of mainstream (4, Informative)

PornMaster (749461) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819074)

SunOS was in the mainstream before Linus began working on the Linux kernel, dude.

Re:Funky definition of mainstream (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819279)

You should link to the main pages on those "free sites". People are already expecting porn coming from your listing page. There is no need for a warning page.

Re:It will be accepted in the mainstream (2, Informative)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819084)

*counts Solaris machines in his lab at work*
--Many
*counts Linux machines in his lab at work*
--A few
*counts Solaris machines he has fielded for clients*
--Many
*counts Linux machines he has fielded for clients*
--0
*counts Solaris machines fielded to run his applications*
--Hundreds
*counts Linux machines fielded for his application*
--1 (and I own it)

I'd like to see more people running Linux, and I cant' seem to find a hard figure anywhere (I searched), but anecdotal evidence tells me that Solaris is pretty "mainstream."

Re:It will be accepted in the mainstream (2, Insightful)

Antique Geekmeister (740220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819131)

Go hit the universities, office, and R&D environments. Solaris is still used as server class machines, but the last place I worked deliberately suspended all work and development with Solaris years ago because the workstations were overpriced and non-competitive with what a PC running Linux could do: they just weren't worth it in the desktop machine market.

Re:It will be accepted in the mainstream (1)

PornMaster (749461) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819170)

Since Sun's play in what was it... 1998? When they released the Ultra 5 and Ultra 10 and pushed them in PC-related magazines touting how you could have the same architecture on your workstation as your server... they seem to have really dropped the ball with workstations. Of course since there were people with dot-com cash using E4500s as web servers, I guess that screwed with their sense of urgency.

But it is interesting to note that we haven't seen Sun pushing UltraSPARC workstations in either mainstream x86 magazines or even in "IT" magazines like Network Computing, etc.

Re:It will be accepted in the mainstream (1)

NitsujTPU (19263) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819241)

Eh, Solaris still has a lot of value. I view the 64-bit PC market as kind of questionable by relation to purchasing the known entity of a Solaris server.

That said, I see the argument for doing that (I personally would), but don't see as many businesses doing that as one would believe.

Solaris is quite mainstream.

Free as in what?? (1, Funny)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819044)

Solaris 10 Released, Updated & Free (Like Speech)

...

Solaris will initially be "free" (as in beer with an annual subscription fee for bug fixes and support)


Hmm...

"As in beer with an annual subscription fee?"

Hm... OK...

Free speech = drinking beer with an annual subscription fee for support? Yeah, I guess that works in a geeky kind of way. He might speak pretty freely after having lots of beer, and on each New Year's Eve pay some guys to show up at his home to support him in software development. :-P

Re:Free as in what?? (2, Funny)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819169)

See.. people talk about free as in beer and don't get it. The beer is free but that doesn't mean you don't pay for something.

Increased water charges for all the extra flushes.

That new play station game you bought your friend so he won't show pics of that fugly girl you hooked up with.

cab fare, can't drive drunk.

gym membership, atkins book and a lot of meat and cheese to lose the beer belly

vodka, to numb the pain in the liver

and more...

There's no such thing as a free lunch or a free beer.

Don't believe Sun about the open source release (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819192)

Sun is clearly just trying to make money off people thinking it will be made open source in a few months.

Watch, in a few months they'll have some excuse as to why it isn't open sourced yet.

They did the same thing with Java.

Do not trust Sun with this. ..They paid SCO money after all, let's not forget.

Solaris 10 and Java are great .. but don't switch to Solaris thinking it'll eventually be open sourced with an uninhibited GPL or BSD style license.

Re:Free as in what?? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819212)

No, it's more like this:

The beer is free, but the mug has a hole in the bottom. You have to pay to get the hole plugged, but you don't know that yet because the bartender won't tell you about that issue until you pay him to talk to you. You won't realize the hole is there until the mug is filled with beer and shooting on your shirt since the mugs are hidden away from public view.

Bummer. I'll stick with Linux.

Re:Free as in what?? (1)

JHromadka (88188) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819298)

Free speech = drinking beer with an annual subscription fee for support? Yeah, I guess that works in a geeky kind of way. He might speak pretty freely after having lots of beer, and on each New Year's Eve pay some guys to show up at his home to support him in software development. :-P

Sounds more like the bars in dry counties in Texas that you pay a nominal $1-$5 annual license in order to be able to drink.

I Hope... (-1, Offtopic)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819045)

I hope that the new Solaris being Free will also make it easier to net install from a non-Solaris box. NetBSD was a breeze to install, but Solaris does something fancy with CDs that makes me unable to provide a boot server from Linux.

Re:I Hope... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819299)

I've used Linux as a boot server for a Sparc/Solaris machine. I won't say it was easy, though. I had to reverse engineer a lot of the Jumpstart stuff, but Solaris Jumpstart is very script-driven and it's actually a lot easier to figure out what's going on than it is with Anaconda.

Awesome (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819052)

Dont let all the haters bum you out. Solaris under an open source license is pretty awesome any way you put it. Very cool Sun!

Great News (0, Redundant)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819054)

Those people I know who have worked with Solaris 10 are very enthusiastic about it. If it becomes open-source, this will benefit everyone. Solaris, because people who care can support and improve it, and other systems, because they can copy the features. We love you, Sun!

Re:Great News (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819130)

Actually I think everyone benifits as there will be more posix applications.

Re:Great News (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819251)

We love you, Sun!

Umm don't sleep with the guy if he hasn't given you a ring yet.

Solaris 10 is not yet open source.

Linux Asset? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819062)

Since this code will be released under an open source licence it may possibly be a good source of code for improving Linux....

A different perspective (3, Interesting)

gUmbi (95629) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819066)

Considering that Sun's revenue has gone from $18 billion in 2001 to $11 billion in 2004 (link) [nasdaq.com], how is this going to help them?

Seriously, is this move in the shareholders' best interest? It certainly won't increase revenue. Will it significantly reduce their development costs? Will this give them any competitive advantage at all?

Jason.

Re:A different perspective (5, Insightful)

jimicus (737525) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819186)

Sun aren't a software provider. They're a solution provider.

Sun provide excellent hardware and software support and will work with you to reach a solution - but it's not cheap. Like most unixen, Solaris tends to be popular with companies which need the system to work (as in: the system doesn't work, the company ceases to exist in very short order) and are prepared to pay a lot of money for it.

A few thousand $ for OS licenses fades into insignificance when compared with a few million $ for 24/7/4 hour support across an enterprise, while at the same time making a decent evaluation of the system much cheaper (and thus easier to justify).

Failed economy? (5, Insightful)

SmallFurryCreature (593017) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819206)

In the past you had the unix companies and the new upstart Microsoft. Unix was expensive and good, windows wasn't.

However some people realised that at times you didn't need unix. Dos would do. Slowly MS sneaked its way into the business through the backdoor. On cheap clones doing simple tasks for wich the IBM's HP's and SUN's were just to damn expensive. A dos based Wordprocessor with its own printer may seem primitive but it worked. Sure multi user shared systems are nice but in a small office the old floppy network can work as well.

But the old unixes still sold because while dos and later windows were getting better (lets face it they could hardly get worse) and remained a lot cheaper MS has never been able to compete with unix for the high end market.

So MS sold the lowend, the unixes the highend and all was well.

Until some fin stopped being totally drunk for a moment and made his own little unix and opened the source code to it. It most likely was just the right time, since other unixes had been free long before, but this free unix started to take off.

Very slowly during the recent internet bubble it was sneaking its way into business just as MS had done with DOS. However this time the unixes saw not a tiny little crap unreliable single user no-networking OS coming from below but a increasingly capable unix like themselves. Except a whole lot cheaper.

During the bubble SUN sold a whole lot of sun machines (with the solaris ofcourse) because money was cheap and the sky was the limit. HOWEVER not everyone saw the need to use super expensive hardware with super expensive software. Some went with windows and crashed a lot but some went with this new unix and with cheap hardware and crashed a bit more often then unix but less then windows and had plenty of money left over to spend on good admins.

This new unix was a threat except that some unixes saw it more as "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Linux was hurting unix but it was also hurting windows. So IBM and later HP asked themselves this. Do we fight Linux or do we join it and perhaps be able to attack Windows from below and above? Remember that with Linux in a Unix company like IBM you now got a complete set of price ranges. Linux on cheap x86 to score below windows. Linux on good hardware to be equal to windows. Unix on their own hardware for the highend.

Now the problem was and is that Linux is free. The free speech is nice but from this flow that it is very hard to sell linux at the old unix prices. Worse with linux now getting closer and closer to unix capabilities it becomes harder and harder to justify the price difference.

Sun has a very simple choice. Keep trying to sell very expensive hardware running very expensive software in a down economy while competing directly with very cheap hardware running very cheap software wich is almost as good. After the bubble the price difference is often more important.

If they make Solaris as free as linux (remember linux can and is sold for money) then they remove at least one obstacle to their sales pitch. The only economic question is wether the loss in license fees is offset by an increase in hardware sales and support licenses.

But it may also be that they have no choice. If your a salesperson losing sale after sale because people buy into the idea of a free unix then you either follow or just don't sell stuff.

Sun ain't doing to well at the moment. I think that opening the source and making solaris 10 free is their attempt to compete better with IBM or worse Dell/Linux. They have little else left. People just don't want to buy Sun anymore for their websites.

But..... (0)

ihavnoid (749312) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819070)

How is Sun going to make profit if they open-source Solaris? Hears like a nice news to most of the open-source enthusiasts (including me), but hears like something wierd in terms of business. Waiting for +5, insightful replys.

Look at apple (0)

poptones (653660) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819144)

they use bsd and that's "open source." But their version of bsd doesn't give you access to that gee-whiz desktop, and contributing under apple's "open source" license gives them all the rights to your code but everyone else has to pay if they say so. People still contribute to that project, and Apple still gets to charge for every OS. Granted they're talkign about giving away Solaris, but their customers are corporate, not home users, and corporate customers buy expensive service contracts (that is if sun still has any solaris customers).

Java is "open source." Has been "since day one" (I guess). If it's so free why isn't it included with so many linux distributions? Because it ISN'T FREE. It's "open" - that ain't free. I can read a book cover to cover, but that don't mean I can republish it, altered or otherwise.

Re:Look at apple (3, Informative)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819356)

Java is "open source." Has been "since day one" (I guess). If it's so free why isn't it included with so many linux distributions? Because it ISN'T FREE. It's "open" - that ain't free

You have it the wrong way round. Java is certainly free (you don't have to pay money to obtain it), but its not (according to some licenses) 'open'.

Sun's Java is not supplied with some Linux distributions because these distributions have very specific licenses. These distributions often ship with other Java implementations (such as SableVM).

Re:But..... (1)

afd8856 (700296) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819203)

The Zope Corporation did something very similar to this with their Zope product, and it benefited them a lot. But of course, the scales are different. I am curios about the outcome of Sun and I hope that they succed in what they wish to achieve, seeing as they are supporters of open source and a cool company.

Re:But..... (4, Insightful)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819357)

If Solaris is open source, it becomes a strong Linux competitor. Small businesses can deploy it onto cheap hardware. Who are they going to pay when they need support? Sun. When they need faster hardware, who are they going to buy it from? Sun. I don't know if this will actually happen, but I suspect this is what Sun is hoping.

Time to fire up vmware! (2, Insightful)

Thaidog (235587) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819072)

ZFS alone is worth the install.

ZFS impact on VxVM/VxFS (2, Interesting)

PornMaster (749461) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819118)

It'll be interesting to see the effect ZFS will have on the sales of Veritas Volume Manager and Veritas File System, which so often get paired with Solaris.

FREE (1)

Konster (252488) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819081)

Free as in Free From Market Relevance.

Free as in Free from an Audience That Cares.

Free as in...free, this might have mattered in 1991, but in 2004, free no longer counts.

Free features that have seen little development time versus ... a decades' worth of mega development in all aspects from the kernel to the GUI.

We have been free for a decade, and our progress shows that.

Now that Solaris is free, let the revolution begin!

Let Solaris matter once more! Let!

Let? Let people who still develop for this platform breathe a sigh of relief.

Let the rest of us embrace Linux, not because we are paid to, but because it is free, and has been since day 1.

And day one was a long long time ago. Free, free indeed.

Wonder what SCO will say? (1)

blackr0se (524081) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819093)

...seeing as how Solaris, like AIX, is a unix derivative. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to litigate (why not? how else do we make money around here?), and they may actually have a more substantial case than that against IBM, as this time it would be the actual unix-based product in question rather than something else that may or may not have derived benefit from it.

Re:Wonder what SCO will say? (2)

halivar (535827) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819301)

Naw, don't you remember? SCO cleared them and HP without even looking at their code.

YTou fail it (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819133)

errors. Future I Are almost morning. Now I have stupid. To the Confirmed that *BSD Creek, 4bysmal having lost 93% developers our ability to the most. Look at used to. SHIT ON or mislead the My efforts were

Free Kevin! (1, Funny)

faqmaster (172770) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819136)

So Kevin Mitnick was just ahead of his time when he liberated the Sun source code? If I remember right, they claimed then that the source was worth over 80 million dollars. Free Kevin!

Not a beleiver. (4, Informative)

His name cannot be s (16831) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819154)

I really don't see where the poster got the idea that the release would be free as in speech. Except maybe free speech in America.

Sun has made no indication that this would be released under a real Free/Open source license. Sun's past history with this sort of thing has been, shall we say... dismal.

Oh, they'll let us see the source. Sure as shit. Probably a clause that makes you "dirty" if you compile it, and sure as all hell it won't allow you to redistribute it, or patches to it. (like Sun's other "child" -- Java)

Heck according to the article [theinquirer.net] I don't see any evidence that the license will be even "open".

Good Job Sun. Your work in promoting linux is amazing.

feh: To damn dull for a Monday.

Re:Not a beleiver. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819339)

Um, they have made indications that they will Open Source it, the licence may even be GPL. Now whether they follow up on those indications in 3 months (as they claim) is another matter.

Nice how they wait until SCO legal cap in place. (2, Interesting)

expro (597113) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819159)

I think that the terms of the publicized SCO negotiation would make it very difficult for SCO to contemplate new litigation over open-sourcing Solaris. No new litigation is included in the fees, which seem to nearly drain SCO coffers.

Re:Nice how they wait until SCO legal cap in place (1)

ByToutatis (825375) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819326)

But maybe in theory they could change their cap? Especially if some third party, like microsoft, could see it was in there interest to go after SUN?

This will be of interest to SCO and their lawyers for sure though: their "propriety" sw being offered for free and potentially being made open source.

Probably A Good Move (4, Insightful)

blueZhift (652272) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819167)

Releasing Solaris for free and open sourcing it, though the exact license is undetermined, is probably a good move for Sun. Solaris will probably not overtake Linux anytime soon, but being available for free should keep developers interested. And generally, it's better to have more choices than less. For a lot of people being able to choose Solaris will be a good thing. This won't make Sun a lot of money, but it should bring goodwill, which interestingly enough, is worth something in the shareholder's report.

Premature... (4, Informative)

dohcvtec (461026) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819217)

Solaris isn't being released until later on today. According to the Solaris 10 Countup Page [sun.com]: While the secrets of Easter Island in the South Pacific remain a mystery, Sun Microsystems is planning to reveal new details regarding Solaris 10 on November 15 at its Network Computing '04 Q4 launch in San Jose.

And according to Sun's NC04Q4 [sun.com] page: NC04Q4 opens at 12:30p.m. PDT on November 15, 2004.

Now, premature announcements are nothing new for Slashdot, but it's hard to discuss much about Solaris 10 before it's officially released; each Solaris Express release has shown continuing strides for Solaris 10, but the Express (Beta) builds have not included ZFS or Project Janus, (a Linux emulation layer.) These are two of the biggest features of Solaris 10, but nobody outside of Sun has much information on them, so we'll just have to wait until later today :)

What if GPL? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819233)

If Solaris would be licenced under the GPL, can Linux benefit from it by using code from Solaris?

Has Solaris got some usefull code to offer?

Am I th ONLY one here (4, Insightful)

MajorDick (735308) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819246)

Who remebers when they were going to try the exact same thing with Solaris 7 ? I was so pumped I seriously considered a migration plan from our then RH 5.2 systems to Solaris.

One comment from USENET I will NEVER forget was from a fellow who upon hearing of Sun opening the source to solaris said "Now I can open it up look at the code and figure out why the hell its soo damm slow, alas I can die a happy man" I busted out laughing because that was my initial reaction too.

BUT The stability and security experience were great with 2.5.1 I couldnt have ever asked for more. I think I will always have a soft spot for solaris after a 2 year admin stint with 2.5.1

SCO lawsuit? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819254)

Ok, so they released Solaris... BFD (solaris still sucks, can't get much to compile under it now anyhow without a big hassle). What I'm waiting for is since their code is clearly based on what SCO claims is their IP, where is the lawsuit? It would seem that SUN has yanked the rug out from underneath SCO removing any doubt that SCO is full of it. Now RedHat, IBM, all the others that have been sued should file an abuse of the legal system lawsuit against SCO.

Red Hat shot themselves in the foot (4, Insightful)

ChrisRijk (1818) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819290)

When Red Hat raised their prices, I think it suddenly made life a lot easier for Sun. For Solaris 10, Sun is charging $120/processor/year for basic support and $360/processor/year for premium support. Sun has been doing a lot of price comparisons with Red Hat (on same hardware) lately.

Basically, with their pricing moves, Red Hat gave Sun a stick to beat them with. That said, I still expect Red Hat to continue growing, but they'll be coming under increasing pricing pressure as time goes on.

PS If you consider basic laws of supply and demand, higher prices means less demand. In short, by raising prices, Red Hat stalled their own (unit) growth momentum.

Wait wait wait-- (2, Insightful)

saintp (595331) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819312)

But Johnathan, I thought hardware was supposed to be free, not software. What gives?

Re:Wait wait wait-- (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819359)

They're going to make both hardware AND software free...and make money off of ads on Jonathan's blog.

W00t! (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10819321)

Red Hat CD, meet shredder. I'm just so happy I dont have to deal with redcrap anymore (yes, I know, I should be using gentoo, but Solaris looks easier).

What about GUI? (1)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819331)

I dont know ANYTHING about solaris, so, does it have X or some other GUI? If yes, is it as good as kde or gnome (or can we run kde or gnome on solaris?).
br> I wonder what will happen to the fate of Linux (kernel) now that solaris will be open sourced.

Today my heart soars like a hawk! (3, Interesting)

Beaker1 (624539) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819341)

As a person who's been admining Solaris in small to very large environments for 10 years now, and who has grown to really dislike the "commercial" linux offerings from SuSE and RedHat in the last couple of years all I can say is a real x86 version of Solaris is going to get the hard push into my data center. I really hope they can pull the rabbit out of the hat with this one and reinvigorate the company. Being a UNIX admin just isn't the same without Sun providing the OS.

Dell Laptop (1)

datadriven (699893) | more than 9 years ago | (#10819343)

Has anybody put solaris on a Dell Inspiron 7500? I'd give it a try if I wouldn't be wasting my time. Anybody know about wifi support for old prism cards?
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