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Former AOLers Bet on Private P2P App

michael posted more than 9 years ago | from the cuecat dept.

The Internet 169

buhatkj writes "Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting. Namely, a P2P/instant messaging/groupware tool called Grouper. Sounds to me a bit like the GAIM plugin suggested by downhill battle..."

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Re:BSDers bet on gorgeous Ceren (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870968)

Creepiest post of the year.

Re:BSDers bet on gorgeous Ceren (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871436)

bsd is dead and ceren is a fuck whore

fp (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870817)

gay

lame (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870818)

subject says all. use waste, http://slackerbitch.free.fr/waste/

Too late in the game... (3, Informative)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870824)

"Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group," Felser said in an interview with eWEEK.com. Each group becomes an encrypted peer-to-peer network that allows one-click access to browse and download files.

The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

Running Grouper through university networks can save Internet bandwidth costs because file transfers are done between machines on the local network (unlike other P2P networks).

Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

However, Felser said Grouper's emphasis on being a small, private, encrypted network minimizes the risk. "We're a heck of a lot safer to the business because we target very small groups of people who already know and trust each other. And we have a very firm anti-spyware policy. We'll never add spyware or adware of any kind."

However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

P2P is fine with the free alternatives. I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

JPriest (547211) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870912)

"there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works."

Re:Too late in the game... (0, Offtopic)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870934)

"there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works."

Let's see the entire quote as that isn't fully correct:

Currently in beta, Grouper limits private networks to 30 members. While file sharing is a key feature in the application, there is no uploading/downloading of music, Felser explained, citing the legal issues associated with sharing of copyrighted works.

By limiting music sharing to streams in small groups, Felser said Grouper simply enables "private performances," which is protected by U.S. Copyright Law.

"We're not a public file-sharing network. What we offer is a way to connect to hard drives within a group in a safe, encrypted environment," he said.


So they do or they don't? Which is it?

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870958)

That does sound contradictory.

I also doubt that keeping performances "private" would hold up as a legitimate defense.

Re:Too late in the game... (4, Interesting)

somethinghollow (530478) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871127)

It makes perfect sense. You STREAM it, not download it. You can't copy it to your computer and save it there from within the program. You can merely stream the audio, which is not the same as saving it to your hdd.

As far as the "private" performance, it should hold up in that only your invited/allowed "friends" (at this point up to 30) can listen to any given song at any given time. It's not offered to the general public. This would be like me having some friends over and playing music from my personal MP3 library. It's not a public performance because only my friends are listening to it, and they are only there because I invited them to the private gathering.

But the tricksy lawyerses will probably take away the precious anyway they like because they hates the precious and would rather see us dead than have it.

Re:Too late in the game... (3, Informative)

Nogami_Saeko (466595) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871218)

Just check their forums.

It will NOT share files with MP3 or WMA extensions. Who knows that filetypes they'll decide to block next.

If they get rid of those restrictions (and the 30 person maximum) I'll bite. Until then, it's simple an interesting bit of software that I'll pass on.

N.

Re:Too late in the game... (4, Interesting)

Nogami_Saeko (466595) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871277)

Just another thought (as this is similar to an application that I brainstormed with a friend a couple years back):

It would be great to have a "trickle-sync" directory designation, so you could automatically share amongst group members. It would work like this:

One person would drop files into a directory designated as "trickle-sync", and it would be slowly passed-along to everyone else in the group automatically without any prompting (assuming they enabled that feature on their machines). Rather than using full available bandwidth, it might be set to, say, a 5kb/sec maximum or something (or dynamically adjust the bandwidth depending on what else is happening on the network at the time).

The idea being that if you found a new song, program, video file etc. that you think other people in your group might be interested in, you'd just drop it in that folder and eventually everyone else would get it automatically and save them the trouble of having to go look for it and download it.

The trickle-sync folder could have a maximum size limit on it, so if new files arrived and the folder was over-size, it would delete the oldest files first to make room for the new stuff.

N.

Re:Too late in the game... (2, Interesting)

spongman (182339) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871372)

Yeah, we're definitely considering adding more push-like capabilities in the future to preemptively distribute content around the network.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871441)

I don't want you forcing your crappy taste in music onto my hard drive.

What's to keep somebody from putting "n3kk3dfoto.jpg.exe" in the push folder?

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

The Patient (571083) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871451)

You mean like Foldershare [foldershare.com] ?

Yes, yes, they charge for features like filediff support, but the free version still works pretty well.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

HeLLFiRe1151 (743468) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871464)

.Rar .zip .uha for a start

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

spongman (182339) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871478)

grouper doesn't allow you to download copies of audio files from your friends' machines, but it does allow you to build playlists of, and listen to music that they're sharing. we re-encode the audio on the fly on the source machine to a bitrate & format more conducive to streaming.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

One Louder (595430) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870925)

I think its biggest weakness is that, unlike other P2P applications, this one can't take advantage of network effects to gain ubiquity due to the small, private, nature of the networks.

Re:Too late in the game... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870932)

The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

And a TON of it is totally fucking useless, misnamed, a virus, or RIAA/MPAA fakes. I can't go on kazaa see an ebook and ask what it's about.

Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

Sounds like you're in high school. How do you think I get my homework/sample essays/lecture notes from professors? File sharing. EVERY university wants file sharing, and most (Any university that I'd attend at least...) have a system set up to do it well.

Re:Too late in the game... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871044)

just how many universities do you attend

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

moonbender (547943) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871582)

How do you think I get my homework/sample essays/lecture notes from professors? File sharing.

File sharing as in P2P file sharing? (I guess a pedant might remark that HTTP is just another way of sharing files.) If so, that's odd. I'm certain the vast majority of universities distribute content via HTTP and email. Or paper, obviously - that's probably the number one distribution mechanism for the things you mention at the moment.

Re:Too late in the game... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870949)

Running Grouper through university networks can save Internet bandwidth costs because file transfers are done between machines on the local network (unlike other P2P networks).

Like university students are not already doing this with Private Gnutella networks, and DC++ etc?

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

Leto-II (1509) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871006)

Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

Most universities couldn't give a f*ck as long as it doesn't take up too much bandwidth. And with something like this most of your peers will probably be other students on the same campus, bringing down the BW cost to the uni since the traffic would mostly be internal.

Too late in the game...Pacman Fever. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871051)

"Most universities couldn't give a f*ck as long as it doesn't take up too much bandwidth. "

Unfortunately they do. Sorry Charlie.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

ForestGrump (644805) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871239)

Actually, the university I go to counts internal traffic against your bandwidth quota.

Thank god CD-RW and DVD-RW are easily available these days. And wireless lan helps alot with your neighbors too.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871036)

I disagree, this is exactly the kind of thing my friends and I were looking for. P2P networks are a pain in the ass because you have to share everything with everyone... and let's be honest, 90% of the file listings for music out there these days seem like fake crap the RIAA is listing. I want to share music, movies, pictures, and maybe even software with friends and family... and chat while we're at it over an encrypted network. But alas, this won't work. It only supports Windows XP and 2000.. they need a Linux and MacOS X version damnit. :-/

Never too late to be legal and change bad laws. (3, Interesting)

twitter (104583) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871081)

The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it. ... Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

Ah, but sharing through a regular p2p or http server is essentially a republication and a direct copyright violation as copyright laws are written. Sharing files with your friends may not be and should not be any more than sharing a book or tape is. Five or six coppies does not make a republication.

The copyright warriors may claim otherwise, but they are clearly in the wrong and will be seen as the extremists that they are on this one. The current wave of lawsuits are that strip 12 year olds and grandparents out of their life savings are bad, but the asswipes can say, "they made tens of thousands thousands of coppies and cost us lots of money." Imagine how that would sound if it were, "he gave his mom a copy of his favorite song and derived us of income! We demand compensation!" The jerks already have egg on their face for placing huge burdens on people who did not know better, have nothing or did not even know what was going on in their house. This, we can hope, will finally kill them off and let the rest of us do what we want to do, share things we enjoy with our friends and family.

However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

Fuck them. I already share things with myself and friends via Openssh. What I have password protected on my machines is none of their business. Those things I created and own are shared by a http server on the same machine and anyone, including the RIAA is welcome to it.

I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

Ha! My windoze using peers would love to do the things I do with Konqueror. You know, drag and drop encrypted file transfer so that I can get at, use and edit my stuff from anywhere in the world. This is a step in that direction for those too timid to leave winblows. Such thoughts populate the reviews the Grouper people are displaying from such mainstream sources as PCMagazine and the Wall Street Journal. I'd rather these people stepped up to free software, but this kind of program is going to take off big time.

When that happens, it will change the way people think of publication in general. That will spell the end for the copyright warriors.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

Tony Hoyle (11698) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871240)

"Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group,"

So, it's an FTP server?

That's been done...

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871256)

The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.


And, just for the record, Gnutella has always supported semi-private networks. That was part of the problem early on. It doesn't have password authentication, but you aren't obliged to sign onto the main network.

Re:Too late in the game... (2, Interesting)

Larsiny (753559) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871393)

The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

Hate to break it to you but there's already private networks dealing in the latest files/video/audio that are secure mainly because they are private. You never hear about them but I'm sure they can have all the software they want. All it takes is one guy, let's call him a "courier" for a purely hypothetical example, to tap into different groups and bring it to share with his network of buddies. And nicely pass it on to another group if possible, in an fair trade sort of exchange.

And regarding speed, I would know that the cd sized home movie that I'm downloading from a friend isn't going to be coming off of a dial up user. If a buddy of mine shares a torrent of a song he wrote and we're both on T3 connections, why should I have to suffer accessing packets from a dial up user who has it too?

Most Universities probably don't want ANY filesharing. A lot of them have limited bandwith for P2P applications as it is. Do you think that really want it going on at all? Probably not. Too many problems w/the RIAA and the MPAA.

Actually no, most private universities don't give a rat's ass about sharing files but more concerned about total bandwidth with external connections as well as external transfers that could come back to hurt them as an institution. As long as the actions of a student doesn't come back to harm or get the institution in trouble, they don't really care.

However, to outsiders (RIAA/MPAA) encryption means hiding data that doesn't belong to you. They will counter any argument with that statement.

There wouldn't be an argument to begin with because they have no idea what's going on within that network unless they've gained access illegally. How are they going to request a court order? "Your honor, we believe that there's illegal information swapping going on because they have 1337 usernames and they move a lot of information"

Also, how would they know what the information is if it's encrypted? Maybe I like sending uncompressed home footage of my toddler to my grandparents.

P2P is fine with the free alternatives. I'm sorry but I just don't think this program is going anywhere. Maybe if it was created 5 or 6 years ago.

Free alternatives open you up to people you don't know and software you might not realize is really just spyware. If I had a group of buddies that I know and trust, more information can be passed back and forth in complete safety. And the intent of this program is to allow secure transfer of personal data to friends and back.

The actual greatest benefit from this program IMO is the knowledge of the connections of the circle of people I'm sharing with. Instead of having to suffer a download at 4.5Kb/sec, I am assured I can get it at dsl/cable/t1/t3/oc1/etc speeds.

Re:Too late in the game... (1)

edbarrett (150317) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871572)

"Our technology turns the computer into a private server that allows you to share files securely in a small, invite-only group," Felser said in an interview with eWEEK.com. Each group becomes an encrypted peer-to-peer network that allows one-click access to browse and download files.

The reason that P2P networks are useful is because the speeds are fast and there is a TON of material out there. I'm sorry but a private network that is invite only just won't cut it.

Not that I RTFA, but you never used hotline, did you? "Click this banner, then the username is the fifth word of the second paragraph and the password is the fourth word of the third paragraph on the welcome page" Or, for more modern pirates, suprnova.

The just announced the name: (5, Funny)

Shut the fuck up! (572058) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870825)

OMGWTFLOL.exe

yup, nullsoft (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870833)

as in waste

MOD PARENT UP! (4, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871162)

This sounds almost exactly like WASTE, and being made by a "former AOL employee" is too much of a coincidence. Either this is WASTE, or it was "inspired" by WASTE.

But either way, it's closed source -- so what's the point? It's not as if it had a head start or anything; you might as well just use the Free version.

Squeeze the Charmin. (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870836)

"Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting. Namely, a P2P/instant messaging/groupware tool called Grouper. "

Damn! I read that as Groper. Reach out. Reach out, and grope someone today.

login sound (5, Funny)

Post It Now (831323) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870856)

"You've got jail!"

Re:login sound (0, Offtopic)

CrackedButter (646746) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871002)

Best post Evar!!! (Since I cannot remember the last "best" post) :)

like clevercactus? (4, Informative)

idonotexist (450877) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870858)

Not sure who was first, but clevercactus [clevercactus.com] has had the same type of offering for awhile.

Re:like clevercactus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871046)

...and at over 17MB (vs. 1.2MB for Grouper and 3MB for KDrive), I'm sure there's no spyware at all.

Re:like clevercactus? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871366)

what about aimster?

anyone remember the hot but most likely underage aimee?

Groovy (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870872)

The screenshots and described functionality look tremendously like the original free Groove software.

New name, same product? (4, Interesting)

Raxxon (6291) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870886)

Wouldn't this be a cleaned up and repackaged version of WASTE?

Re:New name, same product? (1)

JPriest (547211) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870944)

WASTE was created by the nullsoft folks. These AOLers were aquired in the sale of Spinner.com to AOL.

Re:New name, same product? (1)

Raxxon (6291) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871321)

My understanding was the the NullSoft guys developed it but that it was in use in other areas of AOL giving pretty much anyone who wanted access to it, access... It seems to do a good number of things that WASTE did...

Re:New name, same product? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871022)

Yes, it's a blatant rip-off of Justin Frankel's WASTE.
http://waste.sf.net/ [sf.net]

Moreover, the Grouper CEO has the temerity claim to its his original idea:

"The idea for Grouper was born out of personal frustration after Josh came back from Burning Man with loads of photos and video clips taken with his digital camera." http://www.grouper.com/about/presskit.htm [grouper.com]

This doesn't much surpise me as I have experience working with these Grouper people. I'd never work with them again.

well (1)

Sv-Manowar (772313) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870888)

"Some former AOL staffers have come up with something interesting."
i guess the desire to leave AOL, and create something good go hand in hand

Old news? (3, Interesting)

complexmath (449417) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870899)

I posted about Group in response to the GAIM thread the the other day [slashdot.org] . That said, my only complaint about Grouper is the obvious one--music is only streamable, not downloadable (though I imagine renaming the extension and/or compressing the file would be an easy way around this). If the filesharing is truly private, why bother with such a restriction?

30 node limit....... (1)

ARRRLovin (807926) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870901)

.......how fantastically mediocre! Next thing they'll be saying is that you need to pay for the software! D'oh!

I just want to say to Slashdotters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870908)

...that you are all my friends.

Now, just let me know where you are on Grouper so I can share files with you, my dear friends.

KDrive (4, Informative)

PktLoss (647983) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870914)

KDrive [kdrive.com] allows users to set up secure groups across the net, push files to the group, and selectivly share different files with different groups

Re:KDrive (1)

dspiral7 (600070) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871055)

looks like a glorified FTP program...

Re:KDrive (1)

kormoc (122955) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871099)

isn't every file sharing program?

Konqueror + Openssh. (1)

twitter (104583) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871135)

KDrive allows users to set up secure groups across the net, push files to the group, and selectivly share different files with different groups

Why bother renting someone else's "virtual" hard drive when you can own one? Sure, it might be nice to have someone help, but it's really easy to set this up for yourself.

Every modern linux distribution has this ability. For less than $200, anyone can hang 200 GB of content off a cable modem connected computer and share whatever they want with their friends and family by password protected, encrypted communications. With Konqueror, it's drag and drool simple. Most of the distros install that easily too, especially something simple like a utility cable box. What better use do you have for that old 233 MHz computer?

Grouper looks like it's going to bring some of that functionality to Winblows. Good for them and I wish them luck.

Like unix (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870915)

This application is like everyone setting up a web server and a streaming server on their systems (integrated with IM, of course). I always feel nostalgic when functions that I learned with in unix are integrated into the desktop. Remember how 'talk', 'ytalk' and 'finger' was touched up to form IM?

Re:Like unix (1)

nate nice (672391) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871140)

You know, maybe I was just immature and a pervert but I always got a kick out of the finger program. I mean, c'mon. Sure, it's one way to see if your girlfriend is too drunk, but to describe it as a tool to see if someone's available is just a little too obvious. Maybe a name like touch....ok, that doesn't work either....how about.... ahh, finger it must be.

similar to i2hub (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870923)

this is similar to i2hub, except they are super closed network and limits to 30 people, while i2hub is limited to college campuses. speeds on i2hub are extremely fast as well... movie in 15 minutes, a song in 3 seconds.. nothing new here except its from "former AOL staff". i2hub is still the shit.

Private encrypted P2P? (1)

MP3Chuck (652277) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870929)

Sounds like a more polished version of WASTE [sf.net] .

ugh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870930)

grouper's interface is hideous. anyone got a better lan fileshare app?

Re:ugh (1)

togofspookware (464119) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871173)

Yup. It's called Apache:

http://apache.org/

File sharing is the suxx0rz. (2, Funny)

rice_burners_suck (243660) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870933)

This is a really bad idea. First of all, it will cause people to illegally share music, movies, software, and other valuable intellectual property. Because file sharing software makes the decisions, not its users.

By leveraging innovative technologies, content providers streamline compelling enterprise solutions.

The RIAA, MPAA, and Microsoft should get together to put a stop to this before it becomes a larger problem than it already is. That is, unless the FBI, CIA, the Justice Department, and the NSA figure out a way to keep track of which files are being shared, and then administer the death penalty without a trial.

What's this? (1, Troll)

melted (227442) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871389)

>> By leveraging innovative technologies,
>> content providers streamline compelling
>> enterprise solutions.

Sheeeeit, that's a good one. My bullshitometer EXPLODED.

uglyman The hypocrite. (1)

ocularDeathRay (760450) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870940)

GREAT. more software that lets me steal things so easily that I feel persecuted when I am prosecuted for it. I used to steal software a lot... then I started using linux. now I steal pr0n instead.

Done before? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870945)

How is this different from WASTE [sourceforge.net] ?

WASTE Redux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870953)

Sounds like WASTE with a differant name and interface.

we have that already (3, Interesting)

geg81 (816215) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870972)

These "enterprise P2P" efforts seem to be attempting to recreate Windows File Sharing or NFS and call it "P2P". It's not clear whether that's a good idea. Those attempts have some things going for them: self-administration by users, no requirements for a central server, and distributed search. On the other hand, it is quite likely that enterprise administrators don't want some of those features. And they have some disadvantages, too: no auditing, no backup, no direct integration with end-user software (although, I suppose, you will see MS Office plugins).

True, but what about families? (1)

complexmath (449417) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871021)

My principal interest in Grouper is to have an easy way to share data with friends and family members. And while I could set up an NFS share or FTP server to do this, it's much easier to suggest Grouper to the less technically inclined. Personally, I think Grouper is a very primising applicaton, though the restriction on music sharing seems pointless.

The reason they left? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870977)

AOL is extremely unfriendly towards their employees developing P2P stuff. Remember Gnutella was first developed by Nullsoft, an AOL subsidiary? Remember that AOL tried to kill it but the genie was already out of the bottle? Remember WASTE was first developed by Nullsoft too? Remember it was only up for about a day before AOL shut that down as well?

Re:The reason they left? (2, Funny)

MillionthMonkey (240664) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871040)

AOL is extremely unfriendly towards their employees developing P2P stuff. Remember Gnutella was first developed by Nullsoft, an AOL subsidiary? Remember that AOL tried to kill it but the genie was already out of the bottle? Remember WASTE was first developed by Nullsoft too? Remember it was only up for about a day before AOL shut that down as well?

No problem. We'll just pay a soccer mom to visit AOL headquarters and dance around on the table demanding P2P and warez, and we got it.

Re:The reason they left? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871136)

I've always thought that a great way to improve the Internet is to block out all the AOLers. Can we get them onto their own kiddie pool so they don't bug the rest of us anymore? Yeah yeah, so they DO have their own kiddie pool...but we need to make sure they don't have the capabilities to leave.

And I dunno, soccer moms dancing on tables isn't exactly the wholesome content AOL would've liked.

Re:The reason they left? (1)

n0tt00elite (832211) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871223)

I hate && despise && loathe that commercial!!one!! If we could get rid of Micro$oft and AOL users, the computing world would be so much purer. PURGE COMPUTER WORLD!!!! DESTROY AOL USERS; DESTROY M$!!!1!ONE!!1!!ONE!!!

No Thanks (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10870996)

Now that the autogmagic AOL one-button "fix your computer" has completely hosed my parent's computer or internet connection MULTIPLE occasions, I will take a flying PASS on this "new technology" *scoff*

Uh... this is news? (1, Offtopic)

DogDaySunrise (829682) | more than 9 years ago | (#10870999)

Sorry bud, yer a bit late - The Register had a story on this over two months ago http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/13/grouper_p2 p_launc/ [theregister.co.uk] .

Hell, I was seeding a torrent for it on the release date, 23rd September - still running now lol...

Re:Uh... this is news? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871112)

geeze, it's not like slashdot's a news site, it's Cmdr Taco's Personal Blog, and you shouldn't expect it to be upto date, it's just cool and intresting things....

STOP TREATING SLASHDOT LIKE A NEWS SITE. IT'S NOT ONE!

Re:Uh... this is news? (1)

DogDaySunrise (829682) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871157)

I'm sorry, I was misled by the site slogan at the top left-hand side of the page. Cheerfully withdrawn :o)

People/media stations (1)

unsung (10704) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871003)

I tend to disagree with those who say that private networks won't be successful in distributing media. Take for instance Friendster, you'll eventually run into people who wish to form nodes by linking with anyone who requests (not just long-time friends). These people will eventually function as a media stations and be able to deliver focused media to their network.

AOL is for retards! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871012)

Third world mud hole cities are installing 4mbps wireless networks while AOL is still trying to sell 56k dialup service! lol

Just tried it....totally sucks (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871020)

There are so many apps out there like it. Besides it's proprietary. Not cross platform. Interface is cheesy. What a waste of five minutes for the install.

Private network? Invite only? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871024)

And how does this differ from AOL itself? The "invites" are probably going to be CDs mailed to every known and unknown address on the planet.

Kinda like Aimster (3, Interesting)

siliconjunkie (413706) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871038)

The whole concept sounds a lot like Aimster [howstuffworks.com] . I never used Aimster (because i havent used the AIM application since Trillian became available), but as I remember it, it was an application that "piggybacked" on AIM and allowed you to have filesharing circle with anyone on your buddy list. This "Grouper" thing just seems to run with that idea to me. Aimster (a href="http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/09/09/ 0049220&tid=141">ran into legal trouble and became Madster [madster.com] .

Kinda like Aimster (Oops!) (1)

siliconjunkie (413706) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871079)

Oops...

The whole concept sounds a lot like Aimster [howstuffworks.com] . I never used Aimster (because i havent used the AIM application since Trillian became available), but as I remember it, it was an application that "piggybacked" on AIM and allowed you to have filesharing circle with anyone on your buddy list. This "Grouper" thing just seems to run with that idea to me. Aimster ran into legal trouble [slashdot.org] and became Madster [madster.com] .

The future of P2P.... (4, Interesting)

jemenake (595948) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871088)

When the RIAA started suing P2P users, I predicted that the future of P2P was going to be some encapsulation-type system, where I could share with people *I* trusted.... and they'd share with people *they* trusted, etc. So, you'd get this "six degrees of separation" deal going on.

The principle would end up working kind of like how terrorist cells work, such that the RIAA managing to bust one overly-trusting user wouldn't immediately jeopardize the rest of the users on the network.

It seems like that's kinda where we're headed with a lot of the new P2P apps coming out: Grouper, WASTE, etc. Now, we just need a system where we can actually *get* files from people we don't immediately trust by having the peers that we *do* trust act as relay stations or something. Granted, it increases traffic, but it cuts the risk *way* down.... and I don't really mind having to leave my P2P app running all night provided I can do it with impunity.

Re:The future of P2P.... (1)

jwcorder (776512) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871160)

"Now, we just need a system where we can actually *get* files from people we don't immediately trust by having the peers that we *do* trust act as relay stations or something."

It's called newsgroups or IRC. Both relatively easy to use (once you learn to tell the difference between the "good" stuff and the crap) and not targeted by the RIAA or MPAA. At least not yet.

Re:The future of P2P.... (1)

sheapshearer (746106) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871314)

Or you could just obey the law and lead a more simple life.

Awesome! (1)

georgep77 (97111) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871097)

Now that something somewhere with this functionality will finally get wide exposure (slashdot is a great start) we can expect an OSS software package based on this to appear within a few months. Of course I'd prefer if GAIM was expanded to include this functionality.

Cheers,
_GP_

Innovative? (1, Insightful)

nate nice (672391) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871101)

I'm sure they want (or have) patent's on this. So I gues Hotline, Carracho, KDX and all the other programs like this don't count. I don't see why this will make much money as Hotline tried to go commercial and it flopped. I mean, you can't really sell pirating software to pirates, can you?

Not that this doesn't have legit uses, but I hope these dudes are better marketers than they are innovators.

Re:Innovative? (1)

rainman_bc (735332) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871237)

Don't forget about DirectConnect too... Sort of falls under that trusted network of users program too...

Re:Innovative? (1)

nate nice (672391) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871267)

Yeah, there's a boatload of them which is why I'm not impressed. But, innovation is not the key to a profitable company. There are glaring example of this which are too obvious to list.

Groupware? (3, Interesting)

Conception (212279) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871107)

I was really excited by this at first. The idea of putting together IM and a non-outlook groupware solution seemed like a cool idea. Mix ical and IM with p2p without the ICQ bloat? Could be cool. Sadly... grouper is not this. It's waste with a pretty interface with a hint of the possibility of big brother watching me. :( Oh well.

Open question for Justin Frankel.... (4, Insightful)

GeneralEmergency (240687) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871128)



Justin...

Just what is it about working for AOL that makes people want to design and distribute software that ' sticks it to the MAN '?

Is it the bad coffee, doyathink?

A Bloated WASTE (4, Interesting)

DaViking (827886) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871172)

I use and really like the idea of WASTE, although i wish it had a nicer UI. This takes it to an extreme and over complicates the matter. Also, as far as secure goes, I have issues with having to register to use it. I'm going to stick to WASTE where I don't have to worry about any third parties.

shoot (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871175)

Shoot the Grouper...

well thought out! (3, Funny)

SkunkPussy (85271) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871255)

Felser said rich media advertising will be embedded into the free version, and e-commerce tie-ins with online music stores and photo printing services will also offer business opportunities.

so no real business plan here then.

1. e-commerce tie-ins with online music stores and photo printing services
2. ???
3. profit

like gaim? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871318)

this app needs m$ .NET runtimes. so i just cancelled the setup

Re:like gaim? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871612)

does it really need .Net framework to run? oh man........

Prediction for next generation file sharing (4, Insightful)

sokk (691010) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871335)

When I got on the internet for the first time I was on dial-up. It cost money to stay on the net. My first thought was to download as much as I could, so that I could use it when I needed it (Downloading whole sites for offline viewing pleasure. Eg. Code sample archives).

I felt that way about programs too. I had to download them to my computer. I burned them out and archived them, just in case I would need them for a reinstall or for a friend.

Nowadays I seldom keep the installation program of applications. Why? Because I know they're out there. I can get them at a moments notice. How come? I've got a broadband connection now.

This is how I feel the next generation file sharing will become. Currently everyone is downloading everything. To have it handy. To use it. It doesn't need to be like that. I don't yet know how the technical solutions will be (if they ever will).

Imagine: A world wide archive of music at your fingertips. You don't have (much) of it at your hard drive, because it's accessible through the net. You have your favorite music "bookmarked" to make your collection. Music playback is instantly - because of the evolution of the speed of the net, and the evolution of the file sharing technology.

You won't have to think about "the files" as files. You think of them as entities. Always accessible.

You'll (as mentioned) probably have to keep a part of the world wide collection at your hard drive. (If it can't be stored at the net, always flowing).

Well, some of my thoughts. :). I know it's pretty far out, but it would've been neat. Any thougts?

Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing (3, Interesting)

rbenech (97413) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871570)

I agree who-heartedly that "in the future" we'll all be contributing and consuming little bits of "the net". Every site we visit, every message we read, every song we hear, every video clip, every program really, will be held in the "ether" as it is being trasmitted from someone who has it to someone who wants it. All you have to do is "tune" to that channel of bits and you'll be simultaniously helping others get access to it AND getting it for yourself. This assumes that "ALL" devices will have some memory and can participate in the grid of flowing bits we now call the Internet.

Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871626)

You're "fucking crazy". Just "FYI".

Re:Prediction for next generation file sharing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871586)

> Imagine: A world wide archive of music at your fingertips. You don't have (much) of it at your hard drive, because it's accessible through the net. You have your favorite music "bookmarked" to make your collection. Music playback is instantly - because of the evolution of the speed of the net, and the evolution of the file sharing technology.

I can imagine that world. And I can imagine the lawyers destroying that world because it threatens their clients' business model.

I'd like to live in that world, but I'm stuck in this one. So if it's something I might want to keep, I download. Hard drives are cheap and backups can be stored offsite.

Once the upstream end is (DMCA'd, goes bankrupt, bought out by a competitor, has a bad marketing day and decides to nuke all drivers for earlier products) gone, the data's gone with it.

"What good is a fat pipe, Mr. Anderson, if no data flows through it?"

Qnext (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10871432)

Why is anyone so impressed with Grouper??? Take a look at Qnext: http://www.qnext.com/ [qnext.com]

iTunes on crack. (2, Interesting)

Kujila (826706) | more than 9 years ago | (#10871471)

A lot of you seemed turned off immediately when the acronym "AOL" appeared, but did you even bother to try out the program yet? I've been using it for a week or so now, and I'm really impressed with it's music-streaming capabilities. It's like iTunes' network sharing abilities on crack.

If any of the rest of you are interested in joining my new grouper group, drop me a line (check my profile)
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