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Former Turkish DMOZ Editor Draws 10 Months In Jail

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the freedom-of-whatnow? dept.

Censorship 666

makne writes "H. Ertas, a Turkish editor of the Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.org) has been sentenced to 10 months in prison after being found guilty of editing a category about the Kurdish Workers Party (PKK). Ertas's lawyer, Suna Coskun, explained that his client had worked as a voluntary editor at the Open Directory Project during his studies at the Euphrat-University and had been responsible for the Kurdish category. At the same time he became interested in Kurds and undertook his own research into the subject. As a voluntary editor, he had sorted the directory submissions but could not be responsible for their content. Therefore there could be no penalty under international law, according to Coskun. His activities could in no way be understood as 'support for a terrorist organisation' and thus Ertas' release was appropriate. The court sentenced Ertas to 10 months in prison and a fine of 416 million Turkish lire ($293). The sentence is not eligible for probation." (Read on for more.)By email, makne writes "I don't know the editor personally, but the editor was first arrested two years ago, then released on parole until now. Members of the editor community have tried to help him in any way they can, with no apparent success. The editor resigned from the ODP in 2002."

Makne also provided this link to a summary (from the Kurdish point of view) of earlier attempts to stifle Kurdish sites, including a campaign to have DMOZ's then-parent company Netscape remove the Kurdish category from DMOZ.

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Protest (5, Insightful)

dhart (1261) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935809)


I believe that organizations like DMOZ should have the ability to quickly react, perhaps in protest, to situations like this one.

For example, rigorous semantic information attached to every DMOZ record would allow the DMOZ community to suspend or flag all information related to the Turkish government, in protest of the current situation. Such a capability could easily be abused or taken too far, which is why it should be reserved only for situations which have direct effect on the organization (and/or its editors, in the case of DMOZ).

With enough open (as in speech) organizations touching enough people in the world, both major and minor misbehavior by governments around the would could be brought to light in this way.

Re:Protest (5, Insightful)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935830)

Is it the political information about the kurds that the turkish government wants to remove from DMOZ, or is it about kurds in general? When reading these things, I feel reluctant to have Turkey joining the European Union. They simply have to get better, and it will be very interesting to see if the turkish government can do this before the set deadline.

Re:Protest (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935921)

The true question is why Turkey wants to enter a hypocritical, elitist club of whiny pansies like the EU in the first place. I'd rather eat a bowl of broken glass and laxatives than declare myself a member of the EU.

Re:Protest (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936044)

>When reading these things, I feel reluctant to have Turkey joining the European Union. They simply have to get better, and it will be very interesting to see if the turkish government can do this before the set deadline.

I spent some time in Turkey not too long ago. I heard nothing from the people I met there about Turks' issues with Kurds. Rather they were all convinced the reason Turkey wasn't a shoe-in to the EU its its economic status. Just a bit of info.



Yes, I posted ananymously. So what?!

Re:Protest (1)

SpaceCadetTrav (641261) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935994)

I agree. The amount of neglect involving the Open Directory is criminal.

Who Did What When How? (4, Informative)

fembots (753724) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935813)

Where's the news? I see four links in the summary and none of them points to the news about the sentence.

Re:Who Did What When How? (1)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935835)

This is the news.

Re:Who Did What When How? (2, Informative)

jginspace (678908) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935953)

Article in Turkish is here:
http://www.mhanews.com/modules.php?name=News&file= article&sid=9485 [mhanews.com]

Translation:

DMOZ-Editor sentenced to imprisonment for KADEK propaganda

Ankara - Construction engineer H. Ertas has been sentenced to 10 months in prison and fined after being found guilty of "Propaganda for KADEK".

Ertas' lawyer, Suna Coskun, explained that his client had worked as a voluntary editor at the Open Directory Project (www.dmoz.org) during his studies at the Euphrat-University and had been responsible for the Kurdish category. At the same time he became interested in Kurds and undertook his own research into the subject.

As a voluntary editor he had sorted the directory submissions but could not be responsible for their content. Therefore there could be no penalty under international law, according to Coskun. His activities could in no way be understood as "support for a terrorist organisation" and thus Ertas' release was appropriate.

The court sentenced Ertas to 10 months in prison and a fine of 416 million Turkish lire ($293). The sentence is not eligible for probation.

Mesopotamia News Agency

Let me be the first (1)

I kan Spl (614759) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935814)

to ask the stupid question, but how does one get a penelty under international law for writing something??? "Therefore there could be no penalty under international law, according to Coskun."

Re:Let me be the first (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935853)

Well, yes... there have been cases where sites telling people to kill George W. Bush have been closed down, for example in Norway. Not that I condone anything of the above, but it was a mere example where words may get you in trouble. PS. Was your post ironic? ;-)

Re:Let me be the first (1)

ArsenneLupin (766289) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935966)

Well, yes... there have been cases where sites telling people to kill George W. Bush have been closed down, for example in Norway.

Bullshitt. If threatening George W. Bush was enough to shut a site down, Slashdot (and to a lesser extent, Wikipedia) would already have been shut down a hundred times. Not that I disagree with what that Norvegian site suggested ;-)

Re:Let me be the first (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935978)

It *did* happen, and it's not bullshit at all... some norwegian rappers got their site closed down due to threatening George W Bush on their site.

Re:Let me be the first (1)

shufler (262955) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936024)

This is why you should stick to only threatening him in your rap lyrics, instead of writing them down where the whole world can see them, and more importantly, are INDEXED, by Google.

Re:Let me be the first (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936038)

Some lady got arrested for shouting "You suck" at Bill Clinton whilst he was jogging at Martha's Vineyard.

"I disagree with what you say but will defend your right to say it" is such a nice line; pity its so often spouted and so rarely followed.

Re:Let me be the first (1)

ortcutt (711694) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935876)

IANAIL, but I assume that the international laws are agreements which constrain what governments can punish people for writing.

One word. (1)

Breakfast Pants (323698) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935922)

Libel.

that stinks (4, Insightful)

polished look 2 (662705) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935815)

but at least he'll be out (hopefully) in 10 months. Abuses of power are rampant throughout the globe [amnesty.org] .

yeah, but damaged (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935865)

can you say anal rape?

you really wish this on someone who's only crime was to list a bunch of sites for informational purposes?

Re:yeah, but damaged (1)

polished look 2 (662705) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935886)

Of course I do not wish this upon anyone but compared with the record of China [amnesty.org] , this is a far more tame sentence.

10th (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935816)

10th post?

Guys please! (2, Informative)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935817)

As a Turkish guy I can tell you PKK is a terrorist organisation now known as Kadek.
Guilty of killing about ~30k people including children and women.
Please see http://www.teror.gen.tr/english/organisations/pkk. html [teror.gen.tr] for more info.
Also note that USA acknowledged recently PKK/Kadek being a terrorist organization.

Re:Guys please! (0, Flamebait)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935839)

Not to start a flame war, but how many kurds is the turkish government and military / police responsible of killing? To put things "head to head", so to speak.

Re:Guys please! (1, Insightful)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936018)

Al quada killed 3000 people on 9/11. In response how many people have we killed? Of course we don't know for sure because neither the press nor the military are interested in telling us the truth but according to the UN we have killed at least 6000 in falujia this week. At least 20,000 dead civillians in iraq so far. Most likely 100,000 human beings in raq so far and I would guess at least that many in afghanistan.

So go ahead do a head to head count.

Re:Guys please! (3, Interesting)

norkakn (102380) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935841)

Also note that USA acknowledged recently PKK/Kadek being a terrorist organization.

No comment on whether they are or not (I haven't a clue), but that means jack. They said that the African National Congress was a terrorist organization.

Re:Guys please! (1)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935856)

Also EU acknowledged PKK being a terrorist organisation but still lagging on Kadek afaik.

Re:Guys please! (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935872)

Yes, I believe you are right in this, but how does putting information about them in DMOZ make this DMOZ-editor a criminal? I can't see the correlation here.

Politics (1)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935859)

It was in the United States' military interest to have an amiable relationship with Turkey... Kind of like China having 'Most Favored' trading status.

Just because a politican says something, dosn't make it true. In fact, the more they say it, the less likely it is true.

Re:Politics (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935884)

Of course, what a poltician says doesn't have to be the universal truth, but on the same time Turkey is indeed *very* important in the future of Europe, as they are the bridge towards the middle-east. I do believe that Turkey have "gotten away" with a lot, due to their strategic importance for NATO. As you hint, one has to put things in perspective when it comes to the issue of Turkey and the region around it.

Re:Politics (1)

PedanticSpellingTrol (746300) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935964)

"Gotten away" with a lot
Understatement of the century... [google.com]

The official story is that "they all moved away".

Re:Politics (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935998)

Ah come on, this was 1915. Though, hasn't Turkey admitted the atrocities back in the day? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Re:Guys please! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935885)

No comment on whether they are or not (I haven't a clue), but that means jack. They said that the African National Congress was a terrorist organization.

The ANC *did* commit many act of terror, you ignorant sack of dog shit. Something else you seem to have no clue about. What, because they were anti-apartheid they were somehow excused for their murdering ways? Fuck them and fuck your worthless ignorant dumb ass.

I love how some of you other oxygen wasting shit stains have taken your anti-Americanism to ppathological levels where you'll automatically believe a terrorist organization's version of everything ovver the US gummint's version. The terrorists of this world laugh themselves silly over cockgobbling appeasers like you.

Re:Guys please! (1)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935944)

Well its good to hear that what a group is fighting for has nothing to do with whether they are terrorists or not...because I always suspsected the United States government was a terrorist organization.

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935842)

And therefore its illegal to sort websites that someone else wrote about them?

Sure, what they do/did is/was bad, but brushing them under the rug of history dooms everyone to repeat the same mistakes.

Re:Guys please! (1)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935846)

No my point is they are not a "Worker Party" but a bunch of terrorists.

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935908)

It's hopeless unixmaster. We have many people in the West who have gone insane with their anti-USA sentiments. Given a conflict of opinion between the USA and terrorists, they will automatically suck and swallow the terrorist's version. These people are ideologues to the point where it is a mental illness, and on issues like this, they are no better than a slow, retarded child. It's the major flaw in out culture(s) that is going to hand victory to the darkness growing in strength out there. The only saving irony is that people like them will be the first up against the wall when the collapse comes.

Re:Guys please! (1)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935926)

If I am an ideologue for not wanting people to go to prison for simply calling an organization by a certain name, then I am happy to be an ideologue.

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936034)

Holy shit, this would be a wicked law to pass. At least then, we'd stop the flood of people blatantly comparing Bush to Hitler.

We get it already, Bush = Hitler. The joke's over, STFU and deal with it.

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936046)

I'm the AC he replied to, and I'm an American, and I fail to see what he's ranting about. Apparently he thinks its appropriate for a guy to go to prison for 10 months not because he put together a list of links about kurds, but because he called the terrorist group a "party" (which is in the damn name of the group), and this made his stomach hurt.

Is his stomach that important? When unixmaster's milk goes sour, does he order a hundred lashings for the cow? If he gets food poisoning, will he demand the cook's head be lopped off?

Of course, you're posting as coward too, though you probably don't even check to see if anyone replies to this ridiculous nonsense.

Re:Guys please! (1)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935912)

Workers party or not, is it really worth sending someone to prison over a dispute over language? What if I called Hamas a social services organization (which they are, besidess be a terrorist one), would that be something to send me to prison over? Besides I think the part (but definatly not all) of what you here about the PKK is propoganda from the Turkish Government. There has long been serious tention between the turks and the kurds.

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936019)

Ah, ok, so since they're a bunch of terrorists, its ok to arrest someone for cataloging websites about them?

Did you even stop to think that maybe some of those sites in the PKK section were anti-PKK?

As for demanding that people not call an organization by their given name, how long before the world is full of "those people", all different organizations that were never in favor, lumped in with those that for whatever reason fell out of favor. Wouldn't it be confusing if nobody knew if you were talking about this group or the Al Qaeda, or Chechen rebels, or any of the other terrorist groups out there? Thats why they have names.

Re:Guys please! (3, Insightful)

flacco (324089) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935843)

As a Turkish guy I can tell you PKK is a terrorist organisation now known as Kadek. Guilty of killing about ~30k people including children and women.

what does that have to do with editing public information about PKK? do you really think that's going to do the slightest bit of good?

Re:Guys please! (5, Insightful)

ortcutt (711694) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935844)

That's not the issue though. Nobody is defending the PKK. The question is whether organizing the categories of links on a web directory make someone a criminal. Putting H. Ertas in prison for 10 months for organizing categories of links on a website isn't right and it doesn't help fight terrorism.

Re:Guys please! (1)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935871)

Calling them a "Worker Party" makes me feel sick. I saw the children they killed on TV. Sorry If I'm being too emotional but you can't call them a political party. There are just bunch of terrorists.

Re:Guys please! (4, Insightful)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935887)

The same TV that's controlled and censored by your government?

If this is what your government does to a web editor, what do you think they do to their journalists?

Re:Guys please! (2, Informative)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935909)

Stop trolling and read http://www.amnesty.org/ailib/intcam/turkey/turk3.h tm [amnesty.org]

Re:Guys please! (1)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935918)

I'm talking about this poor guy H. Ertas who gets locked up by your government for no good reason. Your government is trying to censor information, so that I and others cannot access it.

You somehow always manage to overlook the issue.

Who the f*ck is trolling here?

Re:Guys please! (1)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935935)

I don't approve this behaviour. Free speech is lacking in Turkey like this. TRUE.
But never ever call a Terrorist Organisation a "Worker Party".

Re:Guys please! (1)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935949)

WHO GIVES A FUCK WHAT THEY ARE CALLED? I mean really, how does that matter AT ALL? China calls themselves a republic. It doesn't mean jack shit. If all you are concerned about it semantics I think you need to get a life.

Re:Guys please! (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936032)

Words can be the difference between "democracy" and "dictatorship". Only words, but the built-in value of these words are huge.

Re:Guys please! (1)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936040)

No because a dictatorship that calls itself a democracy (like Iraq before the war) is still a dictatorship. It doesn't change a thing to call it a democracy.

Re:Guys please! (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936015)

Even if the state TV is biased, the PKK have still killed indviduals, but so has the turkish state. Why not ask the greeks, for example?!

Re:Guys please! (1)

pherris (314792) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936039)

Before everyone jumps all over Karma Sucks take a moment to see what he's saying: How much trust can you place in a censored media? The answer is none. Even if they say the sky is blue you still feel the need to check. No good comes from hiding the facts, no matter what the reason is.

Karma Sucks' point is quite valid.

Re:Guys please! (1)

pkhuong (686673) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935919)

Well if that's how they call themselves...

I don't think the PRC is popular or a republic, but I'm still calling it by the name they give themselves.

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936020)

Awww, it makes you feel sick!? I'm so fucking sorry for you. YOU are a bunch of terrorists.

Re:Guys please! (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935997)

In the US people have been found guilty of helping terrorist organizations for some really lame stuff. For example the guy who for a while was a driver for osama bin laden in in guantanamo being denied human rights. Also lawyers for terrorists have been charged with aiding terrorism. [notinourname.net] .

If the US can charge people with aiding terrorism on the flimsiest of basis why can't Turkey?

This war on terrorism has given a carte blanche to all governments of the world to surpress minorities. Whether it's the chechnians in russia, chinese muslims in china, or the kurds in turkey. Just call them terrorists and go.

Re:Guys please! (1)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935849)

Guys please, what?

We're supposed to take you and your government's word for it, as opposed, to say, consulting the compiled information and links on dmoz.org and deciding for ourselves?

Seems to me it's your government that's being heavy-handed here, not PKK.

Re:Guys please! (1)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935881)

How about you do a research and see that even Europen Union aknowledged PKK being a terrorist organisation?

Re:Guys please! (1)

Karma Sucks (127136) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935900)

Look what happened to H. Ertas when he did "research". I don't dare risk it or your government might bomb my country.

Re:Guys please! (1)

ozamosi (615254) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935857)

PKK may be a terrorist organisation, but there is a great difference betwen a terrorist organisation and a race of people. And dont pretend that the Turkish people are innocent. You have murdered quite a few curds yourselves.

So I'll ask (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935869)

Is what the PKK does any worse than the people
who are in the Turkish military or goverment do?

Re:Guys please! (4, Insightful)

Vellmont (569020) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935883)

The problem is the guy was convicted of editing an article about them. Slashdot is a US website and most of us Americans hold free speech as the most important right in maintaining a democracy. For this case it doesn't matter what this group has done. Simply editing a public website with information about them shouldn't be a crime.

As far as the US acknowleding the PKK as a terrorist organization, that doesn't always mean anything. Our outgoing secretary of education called the nations largest teachers group a "terrorist organization". So you'll understand if I'm a little skeptical of what the US government is saying these days.

Re: Guys please! (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935888)

So therefore you deserve punishment for editing info about PKK on a website?

Doing that (editing a link collection in this case) != being member or supporting PKK

Re:Guys please! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936023)

Who will remember the Armenians?

This is where wikipedia may have problems too (5, Insightful)

Saven Marek (739395) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935820)

This is could be an example of the kind, of political pressure that will make things like say wikipedia less and less of a good thing.

For example the slashdot article in the last months, where there were misinformous facts inserted. How many of these can pile up over time? If a country is suppressing all knowledge of what it really has done, and tying in information on what it wants to be seen as happening then the slow blend from one information into a misinformation can be complete.

And these are self referencing things, too, so, you find wikipedia and dmoz links and maybe some other online encyclopedias all combined together with misinformation.

How will one in the end sort it out?

The nets biggest online nude anime gallery's [sharkfire.net]

Look out, we're next! (0, Troll)

sfled (231432) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935828)

I'm joshing, of course. What with Ashcroft retired and all...

So tell me Billy (1, Funny)

lecithin (745575) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935834)

So tell me Billy...you ever been in a Turkish prison camp?

Re:So tell me Billy (0)

flacco (324089) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935852)

So tell me Billy...you ever been in a Turkish prison camp?

do you like to watch gladiator movies?

Re:So tell me Billy (0)

lecithin (745575) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935891)

Have you ever seen a grown man naked?

We need a usable freenet! (2, Insightful)

scrod (136965) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935836)

The Turkish government could not have arrested Ertas if they weren't able to determine who had "inserted" the contraband information, nor would the equivalent of a freenet-based DMOZ be susceptible to coercion of any sort in pursuit of the removal any particular category.

Re:We need a usable freenet! (1)

Kaenneth (82978) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935878)

Perhaps people should avoid sorting information about political groups in their own country...

Re:We need a usable freenet! (1)

Chandon Seldon (43083) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935897)

As long as there is legitimate jurisdictional diversity in the world, that works pretty well - but that is quickly eroding as countries try to "standardize" laws. Additionally, extradition treaties exist.

Re:We need a usable freenet! (1)

krymsin01 (700838) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935972)

Or, they could just disappear you. No worries in re: to jurisdiction then.

Re:We need a usable freenet! (1)

henleg (835139) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935917)

Or perhaps remain "anonymous" and trust the site they're writing on to not give out their info?! I don't know... I only know that I don't like the situation at all! :-/

Re:We need a usable freenet! (1)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935995)

Yeah, or perhaps the Turkish people need to get off their asses and overthrow that insane government of theirs. Let's send them guns to help. Oh wait, that'd be "supporting a terrorist organisation" these days wouldn't it? Sheesh.

Re:We need a usable freenet! (2, Interesting)

Money for Nothin' (754763) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936043)

Indeed. But Freenet hasn't been useable for what, over a year now? I'm amazed they continue to get any donations at all, and I think Ian Clarke (Sanity) has long since lost interest. Sadly, Freenet seems to have collapsed under its own weight of extreme complexity.

Entropy was pretty good while it worked and still had a community, but I think concerns about the strength of its encryption kept it from being too popular (not to mention lack of advertising), and IIRC, ultimately the developer(s) lost interest.

At this point, AFAIK there really is no good "anonymity layer" pseudo-protocol (conceptually, a distributed, encrypted datastore w/ routing on each node) like Freenet or Entropy that works at all. i2p [i2p.net] is supposed to be Entropy's successor, but I haven't messed w/ it yet.

If I were half as sharp as Clarke or developers of any other similar systems, I'd write my own, probably in C++ (for space and speed; Freenet runs in Java and last I checked chewed up tons of RAM and CPU time, whereas Entropy, written in C, didn't). I have some ideas for routing based on legal and geographic boundaries I'd like to implement...

It's on my to-do list someday. But ultimately, I'm nowhere near bright enough to think I could pull it off. *shrug*

Besides, the key legal argument Freenet and the like rest on is that of plausible deniability; that if you can't know for certain what is being trafficked, you can't be prosecuted for it. I think that's a weak argument though. I suspect a judge would take one look at Freenet or other such systems and say that finding "illegal stuff" (be it child porn in the U.S., anti-communist papers in China, photos of bare womens' faces in Iran, etc.) is easy enough to "reasonably" conclude there was knowledge of its traffic, and in fact, that was -- arguably -- the whole point of running Freenet in the first place. No judge is going to believe that such software is running so you can anonymously download photos of fluffy bunnies...

So I'm not convinced that even if the technology were solid, that the legal basis for it is built on much more than quicksand... It's far-better than nothing in terms of initial detection is concerned, sure, but also, IMO, far from perfect once that detection has occurred. But I can't conceive of a better tech+legal defense system either.

Ideally, I think we need a whole new *physical* layer Internet, separate from the existing Internet or Internet2 and devoid of participation by any and all governmental agents and anybody else who is significantly on the government payroll (defense contractors, etc.). Something like a wireless (or perhaps wired, where suitable), fully privately-owned mesh network on which only community-approved (based on the agreement of a certain number of surrounding and already-participating node-owners, much like with WASTE, except in meatspace) private nodes may communicate, over which all traffic is encrypted, possibly multiple times, possibly in hardware...

Oh well, I can dream of a freer world, can't I? :-)

Turkey (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935837)

Would you like some gravy with that Turkey? Happy Thanksgiving!

Turkey in the EU (4, Insightful)

bhima (46039) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935847)

And we're thinking of letting Turkey in the EU?

Re:Turkey in the EU (1)

HarveyBirdman (627248) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935929)

Yeah. Why the Hell would Turkey want to do that?!?! Are they crazy? ;-)

Re:Turkey in the EU (1)

tftp (111690) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936003)

Think outside of the box. It may well be that EU wants to get some "experts" in rubberhosing.

Re:Turkey in the EU (4, Insightful)

Gadzinka (256729) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935954)

Exactly my thoughts...

I mean, you can argue all you want about PKK being terrorist organisation or not, but this is just the issue of free speech! The guy wasn't sentenced for being a part of bombing or being a part of the plot to bomb anyone. He was sentenced for being editor of site that had public information about some organisation.

If this isn't fucking censorship and criminal prosecution for exercising free speech, I don't know what is.

Robert

Re:Turkey in the EU (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935957)

Fuck the turkish government (not the people for the most part) I for one think they shouldn't be part of the EU because they have had AGES to sort out their democracy/corruption/human rights issues and they evidently DONT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY. But guess what? WE DO.

So they can kiss the extra economic prosperity goodbye. I for one will be pushing my government and representatives to speak out against Turkish incorporation into the EU.

Fuck em.

Re:Turkey in the EU (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935962)

One of the conditions however is they clean up their disgusting human rights attitude.

Re:Turkey in the EU (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936026)

Bah. Everybody knows that a muslim country will never be a part of the EU.

Re:Turkey in the EU (4, Insightful)

slavemowgli (585321) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936033)

Sadly, yes. Let's hope that the prospect of becoming a EU member will convince turkish politicians to stop things like this.

Happens all to frequently around the world (5, Insightful)

karlmiller (470975) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935892)

The unfortunate thing is that this kind of action happens all to frequently everyday in countries around the world, where individuals say things that threaten people in power. What's worse is that similar activities are occuring in the United States, which is supposed to be the land that may not occur in.


Remember, Freedom can't protect itself. [aclu.org]

Whew! (4, Interesting)

JoeShmoe (90109) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935915)

I'm glad I live in an open and free country like the USA where chilling tactics like this aren't used! Imagine if people were punished for merely providing a forum for other people to post information!

Oh wait [slashdot.org]

- JoeShmoe
.

Another fucking wannabe oppressed (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935958)

Is the best example you can find? Some boys tread into thhe minefiled of men and get their little weiners snipped?

You're another fat lazy dumbass who wants to be the next Che, but that USA police state keeps failing to materialize. Have another glass of Kool-Aid and fresh tinfoil for your fat head, scumbag. If you really cared about anything

This is a symptom of bigger problems (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935923)

Notice that the levied fine is 416 million lire, which converts to only 293 U.S. dollars.

There is a lot wrong with the country right now, and ultra-heavy-handed censorship (regardless of the neutrality of the material censored) is just another grain of sand on the beach.

It's quite possible that the most productive thing is not to exchange criticism, but to help the people living within Turkey's borders. (Note that I did not say "the Turkish people."

Re:This is a symptom of bigger problems (1)

TheScorpion420 (760125) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935992)

I was wondering if the 416 million lire was actually 293 USD or 293 Million USD. Hmm, I wonder how much a loaf of bread is. Wow millions of dollars for bread!

My goddamn point! (0, Redundant)

unixmaster (573907) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935924)

I don't approve or say its ok to jail someone because he wrote something on the web.

I just want you to know that PKK is not a "Worker Party" but a Terrorist Organisation.
So you should call them so.
If you don't believe me check Amnesty.org website here [amnesty.org]

Re:My goddamn point! (1)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935960)

You can post this over and over again but it still doesn't make it right to send someone to jail who uses the wrong word in your opinion.

Re:My goddamn point! (2)

Krusty Da Klown (29575) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935961)

You've made your point time and time again, in several different postings. The point everyone else here is trying to make is that it doesn't matter who they are, *writing about them* shouldn't be a jailable offense. What's next, throw the Encylopedia Britannica people in jail for writing about al Qaeda?

Re:My goddamn point! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936004)

I think we should throw those Webster's fuckers in jail first. I mean, at least they live in the US.

Re:My goddamn point! (1)

jonr (1130) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936045)

Well, since Al-Qaeda doesn't exist, why not?

Re:My goddamn point! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10935988)

PKK is a worker party. They help the workers. Maybe they help them by blowing them up so that the turkish gov't can't abuse them first, eh?

You are a dumb ass, you know that? I hope this pisses you off:

PKK = Worker Party !!! PKK = Worker Party !!! PKK = Worker Party
!!! PKK = Worker Party !!! PKK = Worker Party !!! PKK = Worker Party !!!

OH JESUS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10936016)

Shut the fuck up.

..Or provide any justification whatsoever for locking a guy up for the crime of organising links!

I should be able to organise information about the PKK, the IRA, Hamas, Al Quaeda, ETA, the Tamil Tigers, the CIA, PETA, or any other terrorist organisations without being arrested and jailed. It's just information.

New plan. (3, Funny)

dj245 (732906) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935948)

The court sentenced Ertas to 10 months in prison and a fine of 416 million Turkish lire ($293).

To make the absurd amounts of money that the litigius lawyers demand in court these days even more absurd, I say we convert all monetary demands to Turkish Lire. For example:
The RIAA today sued 793 more file-shares for between 2.83 and 5.67 Billion Turkish Lire each.

And this country... (-1, Flamebait)

The Fanta Menace (607612) | more than 9 years ago | (#10935975)

...expects to enter the EU?

They are not democratic, and until they prove that they can be, they should not be allowed in.

Re:And this country... (2, Interesting)

johannesg (664142) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936031)

Not even then. The "European Union" is a collection of nations that are all located IN EUROPE. Turkey is not in Europe, except for a very small part. Geographic issues aside, there is a major cultural and religious gap between Turkey and the EU. What's next? Should Iraq become part of the EU (next country after Turkey)? Hell, why not Saudi Arabia or Iran?

Besides, Bush wants them in, so it cannot be right. He is probably hoping this to have a destabilizing and/or paralyzing influence on the entire EU...

Turkey put its EC membership on the line... (2, Informative)

ivi (126837) | more than 9 years ago | (#10936001)


The European Community could well put
some pressure on the country or maybe
bounce Yurkey out of the EC.

How soon a wrongly sentenced person
might be released from prison is,
of course, another matter.
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