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E17 Available From CVS

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the decorating-the-ecosystem dept.


Lisandro writes "As stated by Rasterman on his site, Enlightenment 0.17's window manager is now available on CVS, which means you can build e17 completely from it, as it is, and give it a try. Of course, it's still work in progress, and lacking in several areas, but it is usable, and looks as gorgeous as ever. Also, in related news, the XFCE team, one of the best 'light' desktop environments for *NIX, has released the first release candidate for XFCE 4.2, with a lot of long due improvements." About e17, Rasterman's note says "It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful."

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eka posti! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940026)


Work in progress (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940039)

Enlightment has been work in progress for many many years and did include a complete rewrite. Which is OK because Rasterman considers himself an artist not a programmer. As for real world every day use, I'll stick to sawfish.

some random screenshots (0, Offtopic)

SignificantBit (677809) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940045)

Here [xcomputerman.com]

Your Server... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940247)

She has melted.

Re:some random screenshots (5, Funny)

xcomputer_man (513295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940251)

Thanks for pummeling my poor web server with a direct link to my screenshots page, even though it doesn't have any actual E17 screenshots yet. :)

(At least you didn't link to the video, and no-one's gonna find it since it's all slashdotted and everything now!)

Screenshots (5, Funny)

Gilesx (525831) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940046)

Does anyone have any screenshots of it that don't look like one of those hacker greetz pages you used to get on pirated Amiga games?

Re:Screenshots (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940212)

Dont worry Gilesx, I thought it was funny...

fluxbox (1, Interesting)

Gyorg_Lavode (520114) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940050)

Personally, fluxbox is my favorite light desktop. What advantages do enlightenment or XFCE have over fluxbox? (if any)

Re:fluxbox (1, Informative)

thryllkill (52874) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940120)

Fluxbox is pretty cool. Don't know much about XFCE, but I do know that Enlightenment is, and probably never will be, a light desktop. It has always been about the eye candy.

Re:fluxbox (1)

thryllkill (52874) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940132)


Fluxbox is pretty cool. Don't know much about XFCE, but I do know that Enlightenment is NOT , and probably never will be, a light desktop. It has always been about the eye candy.

Re:fluxbox (1)

FlipmodePlaya (719010) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940133)

Well, XFCE is supposed to have all the awesome lightweightedness of something like IceWM or Fluxbox, but since it's built with GTK, look cool. I tried the new version yesterday, and was impressed with its looks. However I didn't find it to be noticeably faster than KDE, once it starts up (startup time is next to nill).

Re:fluxbox (4, Informative)

erikharrison (633719) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940146)

Fluxbox really isn't a desktop. It's just a window manager. A pretty featureful window manager (which starts to blur the distinction), but a window manager none the less.

Fluxbox has a menu, minimal taskbar like support, tabbed windows, and a place for windowmaker dockapps.

Xfce is a complete and highly modular desktop environment. Unlike Gnome, components are loosely coupled, so you can easily run part of the environment without much overhead.

Xfce includes: A window manager, a taskbar program, a panel with plugins (launchers, menus, workplace switchers), a file manager, a desktop menu with a backdrop system, a session manager, a plugin capable settings manager, and a small application development environment.

There are some other micellaneous toys - calendar, a gtk theme engine, a nice resolution switcher, an iconbox. And the third party apps are growing - a couple of terminal programs, a fine media player, a growing number of panel plugins.

Making fluxbox and it's kin usable winds up requireing I run half a dozen other apps. Xfce is those apps, bundled together. You can think of it as Gnome done right.

Re:fluxbox (2, Interesting)

bcrowell (177657) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940235)

Making fluxbox and it's kin usable winds up requireing I run half a dozen other apps. Xfce is those apps, bundled together. You can think of it as Gnome done right.
I guess I'll come off as a troll, but I'm honestly wondering if you could explain a little more. I use fluxbox, and I don't feel anything is lacking. I right-click, and I get a menu that lets me run the apps I want to run, or I can open an aterm and start other gui apps from the command line. Is it the file browser that you really feel is missing from fluxbox? Personally I'm happier with ls, rm, etc. from the command line. Some of the stuff you listed I either don't consider part of the desktop (like a development environment), or I'm not sure what you're describing ("backdrop system, a session manager, a plugin capable settings manager").

Maybe part of it is that I've had right-hand tendonitis problems from the mouse, so I actually prefer to type as much as possible and avoid the mouse.

Re:fluxbox (1)

Gyorg_Lavode (520114) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940255)

you may be modded troll. I got modded overrated w/ just my karma bonus to a question thats got 3 replies. Anyway, maybe someone can shed some light on the difference between a windows manager and a desktop? I honestly have never understood that since it seems most windows managers can be used as desktops but desktops (like KDE) somtimes use different windows managers.

Re:fluxbox (2, Interesting)

reallocate (142797) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940346)

I think he explained it rather well. XFCE has a bunch of little apps that don't come with Fluxbox or the other minimal window managers. If you use Fluxbox and add in those capabilities by running the equivalent individual programs, the only remaining difference is aesthetic.

In the end, asking if XFCE is better than Fluxbox, or if KDE is better than Gnome, is a bit like asking if blue is better than yellow. It all depends on what you like to look at, because if you want, for example, to put a clock on your desktop, you're gonna hafta run a clock program.

Re:fluxbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940326)

only thing i run on top of fluxbox is grekllm and a whole lot of xterms. well sometimes xpdf also, sometimes.
filemanagers you say? i get along perfect with mc (midnight commander) or just ksh. web browser is lynx. editor is vim. etc. etc. it's a Unix box man! :)

ps. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940335)

ksh = korn shell (openbsd's /bin/sh), not some kde thing... ;)

Re:fluxbox (0, Troll)

Hal XP (807364) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940371)

Making fluxbox and its kin usable winds up requiring I run half a dozen other apps. Xfce is those apps, bundled together. You can think of it as Gnome done right.

Incredible! Does this mean a base installation of XFce includes Firefox [spreadfirefox.com] , Abiword [abisource.org] , Emacs [emacswiki.org] , GVim [vim.org] , The Gimp, GPhoto [gphoto.org] , Inkscape [inkscape.org] and Scribus [altmuehlnet.de] ? These are the apps I require in order to make Fluxbox [sf.net] usable.

Re:fluxbox (1)

ari_j (90255) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940379)

No. Those are the apps you require in order to make your system usable, regardless of desktop environment. They would all work essentially the same regardless of window manager, even if it's twm or none at all.

Re:fluxbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940261)

is there a bug in fluxbox? when i alt-tab to the next window, the first keypress doesn't register in the new window. anybody else get that bug? is there a nice quickie fix? :)

Re:fluxbox (3, Interesting)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940292)

Give it a try and you'll understand. I used to use Fluxbox a lot, but being only a WM it's rather limited in what it can and can't do. I then moved to KDE, whose interface i loved but was dog-ass slow. From there i moved to GNOME, which was still dog-ass slow, and while it's interface is not as polished as KDEs, it looks (for me) a whole lot better.

Now i'm settled with XFCE 4, and i have to say is the first time i've ever been really comfortable with an *NIX desktop enviroment. Think of it as being somewhere between a WM and a DE: it borrows the best from both worlds. XFCE looks much like GNOME, being GTK based, but it just *flies*. In fact, i'm pretty sure that if your system runs Fluxbox well it will also run XFCE well.

The latest XFCE release is major in the sense they've started to polish the weak spots in the design - there's now a nice session manager, better configuration options, more eye candy :) and sleeker interface overall. Desktop icons are being developed for those who asked for it aswell. It's also one of the more Free Desktop [freedesktop.org] -compliants DE available. It does what it's supposed to do, with zero bloat. In fact, i think the GNOME crew should take a few hints from XFCE.

Re:fluxbox (1)

Gyorg_Lavode (520114) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940378)

I use KDE for my normal computers, but I have one k6-2 400 thats slow as sin so I needed something really stripped down for it. Thats where I use fluxbox.

Tibet an Version of Window Manager (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940053)

The window manage appears to default to English. Is there a version with the Tibetan language [phrusa.org] ? Thanks.

Re:Tibet an Version of Window Manager (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940066)

Why should it? Tibetans will be speaking Chinese soon.

Go eat your salad, vegfag.

OK (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940054)

It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful.

Enlightenment's been around for, what? Around five years or so? Amazingly it still doesn't support some of the most basic features you would expect a window manager to support. No virtual desktops? No thanks.

I hate to say it, but Enlightenment is pretty much worthless as anything else than eye candy. It's got a really clean look, and feel but that's about it. It's as useful as Metacity running on its own.

Re:OK (1)

skids (119237) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940081)

Practically none of the window managers available today properly support some of the most basic features you'd expect them to support. Like say Xlib.

/me is just cranky because WM's screw up my GGI X target code.

Re:OK (4, Informative)

nuclear305 (674185) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940084)

It has been around longer than 5 years, and if you had ever used it you'd know it has plenty common features (virtual desktops, for one)

I *believe* e17 was a total rewrite, which is why those features are missing...simply because the rewrite hasn't been completed yet.

Re:OK (1, Informative)

liquidpele (663430) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940092)

"No virtual desktops? No thinks."

who's modding up the AC? come on people.
from the screenshot section of the E17 site:
"Both Virtual Desktops and Multiple Desktops are provided. Each is configured with its own settings dialog. You can even disable the desktop dragbar on the 'Special FX' dialog to get it out of your way complete."

Re:OK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940150)

those are screenshots of e16.
e17 is still in VERY early stages with basically no features yet. However, due to the libraries used (Enlightenment Foundation Libraries), one can already do things like animate the border theme, have complex, multi-layered backrounds that resize cleanly to ANY resolution, etc. Just wait a few more months for the WM code to get written...

It supported such things (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940097)

They are recoding it, and due that, they have not added many things.

Fortunately, reality is much better :) (3, Informative)

mr_tenor (310787) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940117)

Erm, I hope you're just saying that because you haven't heard anything in the last several years about the several rewrites and the refocusing of the enlightenment project on producing a set of extensive, massively featured libraries for application development with state of the art graphical capabilities and the ability to build complex applications using their components.

The window manager mentioned here is the very start of the "2 lines of code" (a long runnign in-joke) that builds a window manager out of these libraries. If you want a fully featured window manager, e16 is quite mature already.

Re:Fortunately, reality is much better :) (1)

Slime-dogg (120473) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940278)

The parent is probably saying that because the parent is a troll.

There's really no way that you can look at Enlightenment and miss the virtual desktop capabilities, or the fact that it has the best pager of all wm's I've seen.

E is great. There's so much you can do with it, especially when it's combined with a normal desktop environment.

Re:OK (2, Informative)

adamruck (638131) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940182)

Wow... mods are just as retarted as you are. Even the old version E16 had the features you are talking about, and it did them damn well also. I would say there are way more options to configure Enlightenment than any other desktop. With a little setup, you can make Enlightenment the best interface you have ever used.

things I would like to see
1) reorginize the configuration menus(a little on the confusing side)
2) have e16 keyconfig and menuconfig come built in

IMO enlightenment is sort of like debian, it goes a little slow, but damn when the thing finally comes out, it is impressive.

Re:OK (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940250)

Wow... mods are just as
retarted as you are.

This is just priceless. Really...

pot... kettle... black.

Re:OK (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940188)

OK, I posted this without realising that the article said E17 didn't support these features yet. Sorry, I jumped the gun.

actually, thats kind of wrong. (4, Interesting)

auzy (680819) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940190)

E17 has been around for a very long time, but about a year ago they started a total rewrite, so technically, only 1 or 2 years.

And you must understand, what rasterman, etc are trying to do is a hell of a lot more advanced then anything tried before. They for instance are developing their own composite system instead of using Xorg's, and they do a lot of work optimisation wise.

They have also been developing it to be completely dynamic. In retrospect for instance, the windows start bar, the best you can do is theme it, but it will always be the same. Rasterman and the rest of the enlightenment team are making it so that the way things work on the bar are completely dynamic for instance. An example would be when you put your mouse away from the applications button, it moves to the right (bad example, but you get the point).

So, I hate to say it, but I dont think you realise the real benefits. The default theme cannot show off the full power of enlightenment 17, and you can only see it after using it for a while. And btw, I'm sure they'll add virtual desktops, its still an early alpha. virtual desktops dont take many lines of code...

As a programmer, I actually very eagerly await e17, because the foundation libraries and concepts seem pretty amazing, and believe me, all the other window libraries like GTK and QT are mostly static.. In fact, the library seems so cool that I might be changing the application I'm programming to EFL from gtk

Re:actually, thats kind of wrong. (2)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940322)

This is what first struck me about the e17 developement. Evas alone is impressive, and a kick in the ass to several other X graphic libraries.

Re:OK (3, Informative)

gjheydon (306058) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940267)

Remember this is a complete rewrite. E16 can do all this, but IMO is getting too old, and slow. The Enlightenment team have been mainly working on all the building blocks at this stage, and not too much on the actual window manager.
With componets like evas which now has a media player built into it is going to be the best window manager out there.
If they have built it the way they were saying, it can be a fairly lean window manager if you build your theme correctly, without the builtin dvd player. ;-)

It won't be the same... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940055)

Without Brian Harvey [bharvey.de] ... *sigh*

Re:It won't be the same... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940160)

That guy looks gayer than a cock covered in shit, and what the fuck is it with 30 year olds dressing like teenagers and shaving their eyebrows?

In case of slashdotting (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940065)

SourceForge Logo
Support This Project

Welcome to The Enlightenment Project.

We are dedicated to providing advanced graphical libraries, tools, and environments. Currently, the project is made up of three different components: Enlightenment DR16, The Enlightenment Foundation Libraries, and Enlightenment DR17. While we are best known for the Enlightenment Window Manager itself there is a long history of providing advanced libraries and tools to support the window manager and other applications, such as Imlib, FNLib, and Imlib2, which extend far beyond the window manager itself in scope. Today, in development toward the DR17 Desktop Shell we have created an entirely new set of libraries and tools that provide more power and flexibility than any other group of graphical libraries available, which we refer to collectively as The Enlightenment Foundation Libraries.

Enlightenment DR16

The Enlightenment DR16 window manager was released in 2000, along with its dependencies Imlib and Fnlib, and remains in heavy usage today. While rumors of its death still circulate, DR16.6 was release on Nov 2nd, 2003, and it remains in development today with a long life still ahead of it. DR16 has been the choice of power users and artists due to its low overhead, highly graphical, widely theme-able, extremely configurable, yet unobtrusive interface. Nearly all functions of the window manager can be handled without mouse input, including application launching via e16keyedit. It also remains highly portable, with ports avalible for Linux on all platforms, FreeBSD, IRIX, Solaris X86 and Sparc, HP-UX, AIX, OS/2, and more.

Imlib has lived a long life, still in heavy usage today, as one of the most popular image manipulation and rendering libs available. Its development was taken over by the GNOME project and used as GNOMEs rendering engine until it was replaced with GdkPixbuf in GNOME 2.0. It's popularity surpasses just development in C thanks to bindings for several scripting languages including PERL, Python, and Ruby.

Enlightenment Foundation Libraries

In developing DR17 it was made clear that we needed an entirely new set of libraries and tools. Raster had a bold vision of what was possible and where he wanted the next release to go, starting with Imlib2 and EVAS, and eventually growing into new libraries largely based on or around EVAS. It became clear that the usefulness of these libraries and tools went far beyond the DR17 release itself, just as Imlib did in DR16. Thus the collective library back-end of DR17 was given the independent title: the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries, or EFL for short.

The EFL contains solutions for almost any graphical interface task, far beyond just rendering images. EVAS provides a highly optimized canvas library. Ecore provides a simple and modular abstraction interface and advanced event management including timers. Etox provides a complex text layout library complete with theme-able text stylization capabilities (previously Estyle). EDB provides a compact database format for intuitive and easy configuration management, including the storing of binaries. EET provides an integrated and flexible container that ends the traditions of providing themes in tarballs. Edje provides a revolutionary library and tool set for completely abstracting application interfaces from their code, including a complex and flexible method of designing interfaces. EWL provides a complete widget library built on all the other components of the EFL. And more!

Enlightenment DR17

Development Release 17 of the Enlightenment window manager represents an evolution into the next generation of desktop environments: the desktop shell. DR17 will provide integration between files and your environment in a seamless manner while encompassing a graphically rich and flexible architecture. It will not compete with GNOME or KDE, but be a completely new way of visualizing your desktop, based around the EFL which was built from the ground up for this task.

Still in heavy development, several applications that will be part of the DR17 release and examples of what is possible are already available in CVS, such as Entice, Entrance, Evidence, Erss, and Eplayer. The desktop shell itself is only a basic framework and not yet ready for CVS, but will be emerging into CVS during the course of this year. As the foundation of DR17, the EFL is currently the first and foremost priority for development.

Re:In case of slashdotting (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940161)

This is idiotic, you're think going to slashdot SourceForge?
blah@blahhost:~$ host www.enlightenment.org
www.enlightenment.org CNAME enlightenment.org
enlightenment.org A
blah@blahhost:~$ host
Name: vhost.sourceforge.net

Yes (nt) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940205)

nt = no text

Re:In case of slashdotting (2, Funny)

sweede (563231) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940266)

ya, sourceforge can take care of its self when it comes to bringing down servers :)

Took a while (1, Troll)

pediddle (592795) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940068)

It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beatiful."

Okay, so it's been 4 years since the last major release, and yes, I used to love Enlightenment back in the day, but the world has moved on to bigger and better things (KDE, Gnome, OS-X). Enlightenment still has a lot of catching up to do before it is newsworthy!

Re:Took a while (1)

wyldeone (785673) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940115)

Okay, so it's been 4 years since the last major release, and yes, I used to love Enlightenment back in the day, but the world has moved on to bigger and better things (KDE, Gnome, OS-X). Enlightenment still has a lot of catching up to do before it is newsworthy!

This is not true. As can be seen on this [sourceforge.net] page, the last release was only three months ago. Also, you do not descern between the different releases. The release noted in the post in DR17, which is very new. I know being informed before you post on /. is too much to ask, but at least RTFA.

Re:Took a while (1)

Coryoth (254751) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940203)

Enlightenment is competing fr a different market than GNOME and KDE. It's more in line to compete with XFCE and even *box. The new E is suprisingly fast, and as such provides a reasonably "fast light desktop" option. At the same time, however, the new E is incredibly rich in eye candy - way more so than any of the competing light desktops. Add to that configurabilty - which E doesn't have yet, it's still early days - which you can be sure E will get, and well...

I look orward to seeng what they have to offer.


Re:Took a while (1)

popeyethesailor (325796) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940300)

More importantly, its usefulness to less-powered systems like Zaurus and ipaq. Evas runs on Zaurus, and looks beautiful.

Re:Took a while (4, Interesting)

auzy (680819) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940220)

actually, the reason its taken so long is because they have completely made EFL uber dynamic.. Believe me, after trying out entrance (the Enlightenment GDM/KDM/XDM equiv), I just seriously sat there staring at it for 20mins.. They can easily beat gnome/kde.

I personally think KDE and gnome (or GTk/QT) are in need of a rewrite, and many programmers have agreed with me.. GTK# might save GTK, but the C code for it can be hell. I think its extremely promising considering E17 is still barely finished yet.

Take my advice and give at least engage and entrance a try from CVS.. You'll see its very newsworthy

Re:Took a while (4, Insightful)

ajs (35943) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940323)

Oh, but it's "fast"... I'm getting so tired of that. I remember when Sawfish came out and everyone loved it because it was so "fast"... then it added support for all of the desktop features everyone wanted and it was deemed too slow. There was a new "fast" window manager called Metacity. Gnome adopted Metacity as its primary window manager because they didn't want something that was that heavy-weight, but Metacity needed some additional features to be fully Gnomish.

Today's Metacity is as heavy-weight as Sawfish.

E has always been "fast", but fast in a different way. There are true optimizations that aren't just a result of feature incompleteness (mostly the rendering model which allows for greater hardware acceleration). Still, it's frustrating to see this process of the new toy being compared to a mature tool with a modern feature set. I love Gnome (and I'm sure I'd love KDE too) because it provides a deep and rich integration between applications. It doesn't really matter if the Window manager is Sawfish, Metacity, E or whatever comes out tomorrow, I'll still demand strong support for internationalization; multiple desktops; interaction with the session and desktop managers, panel and applications; configuration through the same configuration system as the rest of my apps; etc.

If your window manager can do all of this, THEN I'll look at how fast it is. Same for a mailer or terminal or web browser, etc, etc.

Stupid question (4, Funny)

magefile (776388) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940069)

Stupid question, for which I expect a stupid answer ... having downloaded e16 a while back, and tried it a bit ... how the fuck do I learn to use it?

Re:Stupid question (1)

Goeland86 (741690) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940259)

err, have you tried clicking around? have you noticed left click, middle click and right click all popup different menus? Do you understand the names on those menus? they're pretty self-explanatory... And yes, E is for Excellency.

Re:Stupid question (1)

Slime-dogg (120473) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940305)

Probably the best way to do it is to use E as the WM, and use nautilus or some other desktop manager around it. That way, you can have your icons, panels, and taskbar (if you want to use it). I forego the taskbar, because the pager is good enough.

The best way to learn is to experiment with it. If you want to get even more in depth, check out CmdrTaco's site.

Jumping the gun (0, Flamebait)

Lancaibheal (813222) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940071)

"It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful."

If you don't mind, I'll wait until it actually does something other than "work" before I get too excited.

Too Late? (5, Interesting)

Retribution (35798) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940091)

There was a time, long ago, when Enlightenment was my WM of choice, and WindowMaker played backup, when I needed things to either be a bit more lightweight, or I was working over the network, or whatever.

Nowadays, I want a lot less visually from a WM--I want it to be as unobtrusive and thin as possible. I put up with Gnome/KDE (depends on what machine I'm working on) because of the nicer and nicer applications being built around them, but I dislike all of that extra overhead--"this app depends on *WHAT*?" This is, of course, my personal taste, and nothing more.

Enlightenment, how I used to long for you. I yearned for another release. I ached to spend long nights interfacing with you... but that was long ago. I've grown up, you've chnaged. We've moved apart. Can it ever really work again between us? Can't we just let the past stay the past, beautiful in what it is, but nothing more?

Call me.

Re:Too Late? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940288)

Enlightenment calling.

Go get a bloody life, you geek! >:(

*hits Retribution over the head with a clue stick*

Re:Too Late? (1)

jonathantan (707345) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940289)

I like the KDE apps too (I use Konqueror and Kopete regularly for my Internet needs), but I run them in Ion2. You don't have to put up with the extra stuff (Kicker and KDesktop, for instance) and still be able to use the KDE apps.

Re:Too Late? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940293)

Nobody cares.

Don't call us.

Re:Too Late? (2, Interesting)

Nothinman (22765) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940341)

I can't stand a full Gnome or KDE desktop either so I still use E16. As long as you pick a good theme (and man are there a lot of bad ones out there) E16 is still one of the best WMs out there.

Re:Too Late? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940342)

Well... You know, command line?

"Beautiful" (0, Flamebait)

labratuk (204918) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940104)

I've never got why people call enlightenment beautiful. Every time someone has described an enlightenment screenshot as beautiful I've thought it was hideous.

It's like enlightenment's attitude is "Hey, let's put pixmaps everywhere!".

Re:"Beautiful" (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940167)

There was this post on SA a while ago about Safari using brushed metal everywhere and how ugly it looked:

"I got over brushed metal through enlightenment"

Re:"Beautiful" (1)

Goeland86 (741690) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940280)

hey, maybe you don't have the same tastes... but that's why E is great, you can create your own theme from scratch if you want to, and DR17 is going to be no exception, there's going to be alot of configurability for folks like you to make it pretty in their own way.

Seconded (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940366)

Enlightenment is hideous and amateurish looking. That's just my opinion. To each his own.

Always been in CVS (0, Redundant)

Ogerman (136333) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940106)

Uh.. E17 has always been in CVS. This is not news, people. An official final release of E17 will be news. Until then, quit filling /. with useless fluff.

Re:Always been in CVS (1)

datafr0g (831498) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940170)

But the WM app called "e" has not been in CVS until now and you need this to actually use the WM side of E17. Only the libs, and dev tools, etc have been avaliable up till now.

Re:Always been in CVS (3, Informative)

Entropy_ah (19070) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940221)

There was an E17 in CVS, this is an all new E17.

Allow me to explain. They had started development a long while ago on E17 which they had put in CVS (this is what you are thinking of). Since then raster has decided to start over. They have been concentrating on the EFL(Enlightenment Foundation Libraries) since then. Today's "release" exciting beause this is our first look at the real E17

Re:Always been in CVS (2, Informative)

xcomputer_man (513295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940234)

The E17 that was in CVS has been dead for a very long time. It was nothing more than a glorified test app while the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries were still in development. This is a brand new window manager and it was just committed to CVS earlier this week.

Now please don't go rushing to check it out yet. It is still barely functional and is not usable as a day-to-day wm yet - this is pre-alpha code essentially. We need more people who are interested in actually helping to contribute code than excited users especially at this stage.

sco hacked (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940107)


LOL (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940126)

ell oh ell props 2 gnaa

progress (5, Interesting)

Misanthropy (31291) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940109)

Enlightenment has been a work in progress since 97 or so I'd guess (been a fan ever since the fvwm-xpm days). Seemed like whenever it would start getting good Rasterman would decide to do a complete rewrite. Not that I'm complaining. I think it's cool that he has all these different ideas that he wants to try out. I guess it's more of a hobby/art project than a realworld solution.

Put it back in the distros (1)

buffoverflow (623685) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940112)

I know that in most projects, an incremental dev release is usually no big deal, but with E, any release is big. Being a devoted user for many years, I can only hope the release of this beautiful new codebase will get E back into the ISOs of some of the bigger distro's (hint, hint Patrick).

Not to rain on the parade, but... (2, Insightful)

Yurian (164643) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940122)

From the website:
Adding new backgrounds to E is easy. Just copy them into .enlightenment/backgrounds and restart!
Gee, sounds great. I only have to restart the windowing system to add a new background? Not even a reboot? How painless.

I think E is a long way from really being useable.

Click a button (5, Informative)

mr_tenor (310787) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940149)

Enlightenment has a button you click which restarts the wm. All the user sees is a little spinning clock for a second or two.

Re:Click a button (0)

One Childish N00b (780549) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940169)

Enlightenment has a button you click which restarts the wm. All the user sees is a little spinning clock for a second or two.

It's still unnecessary. Why on earth should you have to restart the whole WM (no matter how easy it is to do so) just to change the background? There has to be an easier way. (and no, I don't care for 'the source is there, go fix it yourself' type attitudes).

Re:Click a button (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940219)

Well it's pretty easy actually. It's a very rough code base with more pressing problems than background switching.

Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... (2, Informative)

Xenith (192027) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940191)

That is not true. It hasn't been for a while. While a restart *does* restart the cache, e16 has been able to reload the bg cache without a restart for a while now. (there's a menu option for it, and you can even do it from a shell with IPC)

Where do you see that on the site? That most likely needs to be changed.

And besides, that's refering to e16, not e17.

Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... (3, Insightful)

BlastM (663010) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940229)

E16 has been quite-usable for a few years now. "Restarting" involves merely restarting the Enlightenment process, which takes a grand total of three seconds on any machine bought in the new millenium, during which time windows lose their positions and borders but are all back when E has finished reloading.

There is a common misconception (or more of a preconception as I doubt most people who hold this opinion have actually tried Enlightenment) that anything pretty must sacrifice speed. E16 (and from what I've seen so far, E17) are very fast to load and don't even register in 'top'. The main reason for this is that Enlightenment is just a window manager, not a desktop environment which has an entire framework of libraries that must be loaded to run the simplest programs. Enlightenment with all its bells and whistles will run faster on an old machine than KDE 2.x series or Gnome 1.x.

It seems that bashing Enlightenment of loading slow has become a Slashdotism as important as saying that Gentoo releases are made sooner than they can be compiled or Natalie Portman's hot grits.

Re:Not to rain on the parade, but... (0, Troll)

Nothinman (22765) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940331)

E has always been more of proof-of-concept project than an environment for everyone. I believe it was started in the first place for Raster to learn how to use things like imlib for another project and it just grew from there. I use E16 on my machines because it's light, fast and looks good. But I wouldn't recommend it for most people.

In other news (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940124)

Hell has frozen over, pigs are flying over the White House, and Duke Nukem Forever has shipped.

Just makes me sad (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940140)

Post-UnderGrad 9 years now, and this makes me realize I really haven't done a damn thing (or needed) with Unix/Linux since 1997.

The problem is WinXP just works. I don't have to fuck around with library dependencies or recompiles. Especially since I copied the GNU DOS tools (ls, etc.) into my path. And since my company gives it site licensed software to their empolyees for "telecommuting" everything from MSFT & Adobe is free.

I remember getting all excited about Enlightment when Rasterman announced it, but it never went anywhere.

Christ, I can't even get Fedora 2 to boot up on my VMware machine. Yeah there is a work around, but I just don't have time to spend on something that I keep around just for the memories from UnderGrad & when I was a Logic Designer.

Re:Just makes me sad (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940209)


Thanks to your post, I realized that Linux and Open Source is a total waste of time. "Gee, if some mongoloid on Slashdot can't be bothered to install Enlightenment, what *is* free software good for?"

Thanks, I'd been using Linux for years, professionally and at home, but now that you've opened your mouth and let the drool trickle out, I've come to see that Microsoft is the only way to go. They could use you as an ad or something "It just works!" - some anonymous Internet douchebag

Re:Just makes me sad (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940213)

XP just works?

thanks, i need the laugh.

x.org, gnome, enlightenment (1)

DMJC-L (800240) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940153)

seems that x.org and gnome will do for people a lot of what enlightenment is trying, although I do find their idea of being able to run on top of X/framebuffer/directfb/qtopia to be kind of cool... it'll be interesting to see which of the two.. x.org or enlightenment have the better performance.

Enlightenment's still the best eye candy WM around (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940163)

For those of you who did not start using Linux back at the time when KDE and Gnome were still very primitive, E was the best WM in term of usability and look. Simple enough to use and beautiful enough to keep the users around.

I have always chosen to use E for all these years as my primary WM, no matter what Gnome and KDE can bring to the tables.

Linux is about the freedom of choices and you as the users have the freedom to use whatever WMs you please. I've been pleased with E and I can't wait to have E 17 officially released to enjoy so many new excellent features. Period.

Leave the house more often (2, Funny)

vfs (220730) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940242)

..as gorgeous as ever


Damn, you guys gotta get out more.

E16 vs. E17 (4, Interesting)

93 Escort Wagon (326346) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940257)

If I were still a Linux desktop user, I'd be using E16 without a doubt. Enlightenment always seemed to just offer more than other X11 window managers; even if it was a bit finicky. After E16 development was turned over to new folks and picked up steam again (making it compliant with the freedesktop window hints and such), it was once again the most advanced window manager available.

But I remember building and running E17 from CVS something like two years ago; and I'm pretty sure it was further along then than it is now. I know Raster decided to rewrite everything from the ground up, but c'mon. This is in no way news. Should they ever actually FINISH - then let us know.

it pays to be moderately dyslexic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940286)

...read it the first time as "IE7 Available From CVS".

No kidding? (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940310)

It's limited in its support for ICCCM, no NETWM support and it has no iconification, virtual desktops, shading, keybindings or button bindings, but it does WORK (just). it's also fast and beautiful."

So it's got no support for anything, but it looks pretty and runs fast? Great! Who would've thought that dropping functionality would speed things up?

I haven't used Enlightenment since the days of the Pentium II, but the one thing I remember most about it was that you could choose fast or pretty. I'll stay skeptical about that "and" for now.

DR 17 Movie (5, Informative)

digitalfallout (722395) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940340)

Raster did a short demo movie of the DR 17 wm showing the current iconbar and runtime module handling, here is a mirror www.atmos.org/tmp/e17_movie-00.avi

No need for all this new junk - vtwm forever! (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10940347)

I'm still running on vtwm. I just checked the source and it's the one from 1993. Happy 11th birthday!

I tried KDE and Gnome recently. All junk. Sorry! Total waste of time and space. Better luck next time. :-)

Let's get some things straight here (5, Informative)

flithm (756019) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940381)

There's a lot of stuff being said here about enlightenment, and people need to really understand was Raster is trying to do with E17.

First of all I use E16.7.1 as my WM of choice. I've been using E since I first found it several years ago.

A lot of people don't understand that, why would I use E when there's Gnome or KDE? Well, personally I can't understand why people use Gnome or KDE when there's E, but that's just personal preference.

I'm one of those people who like minimal functionality, uber-flexibility, combined with easy of use, and demands aesthetics above all. E is for me, but I can see why it's not for everyone.

People are scoffing at the poster who said E17 is beautiful and fast by suggesting that without functionality of course it's going to be fast.

Some people are laughing at Enlightenment for being around for 5 years and still not having virtual desktops, pagers, etc.

E16.7.1, the latest stable release, has everything you could ever want from a WM. It has THE greatest pager ever. It even updates the mini window images in real time! The virtual desktop support is second to none. You can even have different layers of virtual screen accessed by using the scroll wheel on the desktop.

E also has the best Xinerama support I've ever seen in a WM, for those of you who are into dual monitors like me.

Now let me address some of things people have been saying about E17. Apparently the poster forgot that this is slashdot and most of the posts will come from people who have never actually used Enlightenment, or who don't know anything about it.

Like many others have said, E17 is a complete re-write, and it's not anywhere near finished. The post is simply an acknowledgment that the window manager code for E17 has finally been put back into the CVS repo. So if you're wondering why it has such limited functionality, it's because it hasn't even been available to be worked on by anyone other than Raster yet!

Some people said that this is not news because it has always been in the repo. Not true. It was in the repo a while back before major rewrites to the foundation libraries, but it got taken out because the changes were too great. Raster had to start again on the WM code.

And finally... why should we care about E17? It is going to be cool... seriously cool. Raster and his team are excellent coders. The reason why it's taking so long is because they're doing it right this time.

The supporting libraries have an OpenGL rendering back-end. Think about that. A WM finally rendered in OpenGL. And think about the possibilities it will bring.

E17 will be worth waiting for. It will be feature-packed. It will be beautiful. And it will be fast.

like the finder? (2, Insightful)

moosesocks (264553) | more than 9 years ago | (#10940387)

From the FAQ
It means that DR17 will combine features of a window manager and a file manager. It will provide nicely integrated GUI elements for managing your desktop elements, both files and windows. It does *not* mean that DR17 will be another application framework like Gnome and KDE.

I'm not very familiar with E, so feel to correct me, but this sounds a heck of a lot like the function of the Finder in MacOS (both X and classic) and explorer.exe in Win9x.

I'm not saying that this is a BAD thing, but it's hardly original. Needless to say, I think this will be a good thing overall for Linux if we're to actually get a good desktop. It's been established that the KDE/Gnome metaphor doesn't work at all and that the file manager and window manager need to be intergrated (as shown by the OS X Dock-like thing in the E17 screenshots)

Now, of course, you do have the problem of an application framework. It REALLY should be intergrated into the WM / File Manager (FM). As said already, monolithic models like KDE and Gnome just don't work. They're bloated, ugly, and force developers to commit to one platform.

E17 seems to be a step in the right direction but not quite enough. First off, this stuff is pretty basic and should probably be intergrated right into X11. Secondly, we need some sort of UI toolkit which could theoretically have more than one implementation (in the same way that there are several implementations of the X protocol).

XUL could be the answer to all this. It's a cross-platform UI language. If someone wanted to make their own XUL implementation, they'd be free to do so and the K/Gnome folks could finally get along.

So in short -- keep the current 'layering' model that we've got going on with the unix desktop metaphor, but make it so that different implementations of these layers don't break compatibility.
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