Beta
×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Gentoo 2005.0: A Live CD And [No] Graphical Installer

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the are-those-things-even-legal dept.

Linux 417

Sunsetbeach writes "zdnet.co.uk reports in this article that 'The next version of Gentoo, 2005.0, will also include a graphical installer that will allow users to automatically install the same set-up of Gentoo on multiple machines, according to Gianelloni.' " The article distinguishes the upcoming live disk from the (available) Gentoo Live CD; the new one will contain a fully functioning system ala Knoppix. Update: 11/30 23:09 GMT by M : Gentoo now has a clarification posted; the next Gentoo release will not have a graphical installer, although it is planned for the future.

Sorry! There are no comments related to the filter you selected.

Emerge (-1, Redundant)

diablobsb (444773) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951419)

emerge this-is-cool

offtopic rant (5, Insightful)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951577)

Don't you just love it how first posts are always modded redundant. I mean, all you did was make a comment. You expressed your opinion. I wonder, what is it that the moderator expected ?

I've noticed a lot of redundant mods lately, and negative mods in general. I think Slashdot should attach statistics to each story showing the percentage of positive versus negative mods. I would also like to see these statistics for editors, who have unlimited mod points. We should get to see how they were meta-modded as well. On one final note, Slashdot needs a forum to discuss issues like this, so that people don't have to resort to offtopic posts.

Boot-up time (3, Funny)

KiloByte (825081) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951422)

Ouch... While compiling everything to a ram-disk is technically viable, I somehow fail to see it working in a long run :p

Re:Boot-up time (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951434)

It's worked for 20 years of AmigaOS, it's not going to suddenly stop now because you fail to see it.

Re:Boot-up time (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951453)

No, not considering amigados stopped about 10 years ago.

Re:Boot-up time (1)

Jaruzel (804522) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951512)

Really? What's This [amiga.com] then?

Re:Boot-up time (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951634)

Still in beta after 8 years.

In other words, vaporware. I called it vaporware in 2000 when it wasn't released, I called it vaporware in 2002 when it wasn't released and I call it vaporware now it's still not released. I still say we won't see it for years, if ever.

Re:Boot-up time (0, Redundant)

mr i want to go home (610257) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951540)

In Korea, only old people use Workbench!

In Korea jokes (-1)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951719)

so now we have a whole new genre of jokes for slashdot...

This is exactly what Gentoo needs (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951425)

It really is a fantastic distro and this will allow it to be used by many many more people.

I pretty much started my Linux experience with Gentoo, which was difficult to say the least. This way though it can be setup easily by the inexperienced, while everyone else is still free to do a Stage 1/2 install

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (5, Interesting)

maekke (808747) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951451)

I am not really sure if this is *really* good to have many more people... I mean that gentoo isn't an easy to handle distro, you have to spend time to understand it and able to use it. So I hope, that they will find a way that everybody will be happy :-)

greetz

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (3, Insightful)

oexeo (816786) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951496)

I am not really sure if this is *really* good to have many more people... I mean that gentoo isn't an easy to handle distro

You don't actually provide a valid reason why it's not a "*really* good to have many more people" use Gentoo. The explanation I see implied from your condescending post is that you're afraid you won't look "1337" if too many people start using your distro of choice.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (3, Funny)

fireman sam (662213) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951550)

5hhhhh, and you spell it "93|\|700"

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (1)

flacco (324089) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951619)

Boycot linuxtoday.com RE: Linux Reference Center Sponsored by Microsoft

yeah, i did this. linuxtoday is pathetic.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (2, Insightful)

KingDaveRa (620784) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951485)

It'll be great!

I like Gentoo for its customisability. All the other distros are hell bent on throwing in everything which is great, but uses up so much RAM. I've seen SuSE use a full gig before just running KDE. With Gentoo I can leave all the little things I don't want out.

It'll be fantastic to have the scripted installer too. You can only write the fstab and grub.conf so many times before it becomes less fun.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (5, Informative)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951511)

I first switched to Gentoo because the bloody fonts "just worked". How sad is that. On a serious note, the user base is one major reason to stick with Gentoo. There is always excellent help and support in the forums, and snobby attitudes are kept in check.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (5, Informative)

adam.skinner (721432) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951513)

You'll see pretty much any Linux distro use a "full gig" of RAM just running KDE if you let it sit long enough. It's how linux manages memory.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951616)

When Windows does it, it's called a memory leak. When Linux does it, it's a philosophy.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951643)

No, it's called filesystem cache.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (5, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951615)

I like Gentoo for its customisability. All the other distros are hell bent on throwing in everything which is great, but uses up so much RAM. I've seen SuSE use a full gig before just running KDE. With Gentoo I can leave all the little things I don't want out.

No.

Distros to fill in this gap has become more and more common lately. See also Knoppix, Mepis, and Ubuntu. It's almost like a new generation of Linux distros taking form, and I personally like those better than the Lindows abomination. :-S I like distros to have a goal to be only on one CD. Usually stability and user friendless come more easily from that as well, since there's less that can go wrong and less options to confuse the user.

I'm now using Mepis as a Linux amateur and it's great! :-) I can choose to run it off CD and get an excellent rescue disk that way with on-the-fly NTFS and SATA support, and also automatic network configuration. And if I like it enough, like I did, I can just install it on disk and it still has everything I can ask for from a basic OS as a normal user. It felt funny to install the OS from within the OS. :-)

And if I need more, it's an excellent Debian-based distro I can use simple apt-get commands or even simpler installer GUIs if I like it that way. Has been rock solid so far, as opposed to Mandrake 10 after around 5 days of regular use. :-P

Suddenly, multi-CD (or even multi-DVD *gasp*) distros feel so... yesterday.

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (2, Interesting)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951630)

Oh, and by the way, I realize Gentoo offers greater customizability, I was mostly just commenting on what you said about being hell bent on throwing everything in. I think these new distros are great for people who don't really care about spending time to customize every little detail and is just looking for a package without a lot of junk inside so one can download it from the internet instead, if one really needs something. Like you do with most other operating systems besides the Linux-based ones. :-)

Re:This is exactly what Gentoo needs (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951680)

I would guess the grandparent is a troll.

GENTOO SUCKS!!@## (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951428)

frist psot!...

faster to install microsoft xp....

Re:GENTOO SUCKS!!@## (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951561)

There should be some special punishment for those that not only post only to gt first post, not only have nothing but "first post" in their post, not even stopping at the retardedness of mis-spelling first post, but also only manage to do so on the 10th fecking post!

Dumbass!!

Gentoo becoming user friendly (5, Insightful)

b0lt (729408) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951432)

Over the years I've been using gentoo, I've noticed that it has become MUCH more userfriendly. The documentation has improved dramatically, and now there's a graphical installer. Will this increase gentoo's install base?

-b0lt

Just some clarification... (4, Informative)

sbennett (448295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951483)

What's planned for 2005.0 is an experimental test release of the new graphical installer. It'll be there for people who want to test it, but don't go relying on the thing.

Re:Gentoo becoming user friendly (0, Flamebait)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951490)

At the same time, portage has bloated to 100,000 files and it takes 20 times as long to update the caches. I miss the "small" Gentoo.

not just the graphical installer. (2, Interesting)

deathazre (761949) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951500)

I actually did the majority of my stage 1 install and system setup (x.org, kde, OO.o, most of the programs I use) from knoppix, partially because for some reason the gentoo CD I got from one of the other guys here wouldn't boot, partially because I wanted a working system while I installed (so I could still idle on IRC and such). If the graphical installer can be made to run inside the knoppix-like part of the new gentoo CD...

nice.

Re:not just the graphical installer. (2, Informative)

sbennett (448295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951535)

so I could still idle on IRC and such

You know, the 2004.3 livecds (or at least the x86 and amd64 ones) do include irssi for that...

Re:not just the graphical installer. (1)

JFitzsimmons (764599) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951666)

irssi has also been available on quite a few of the earlier releases of the livecd as well. I'm not positive on this, but it may even have been on the 1.4 livecd (and every version after that).

In related news, (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951433)

In Korea, only old people use graphical installers.

Re:In related news, (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951454)

In Soviet Russia, Gentoo installs you!

Re:In related news, (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951464)

Netcraft confirms it, in Soviet Russia old people are dying.

Re:In related news, (1)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951504)

That's why in America we have Botox... oh wait.

Re:In related news, (0)

yobbo (324595) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951461)

And an Australian Microsoft employee says he's never used Gentoo.

Re:In related news, (0, Redundant)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951474)

The problem is, you have to make the filesystems, compile a kernel, and emerge the graphical installer in order to use it. Oh well, there goes that idea :)

Re:In related news, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951554)

In Soviet Korea, live CDs install YOU!

Re:In related news, (2, Informative)

big ben bullet (771673) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951724)

If I see one more of this In Korea.... I'm going to add it to the slashdot subculture on wikipedia!

In fact it's already available on wikipedia ...In Japan [wikipedia.org]

Profit!

Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (5, Insightful)

neomage86 (690331) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951435)

One of the best things about Gentoo for me (the performance difference was negligble) besides portage, was the bootstrapping process. I know it took forever, but you actually are learning more about linux. Redhat (my first *nix) hid everything, and slackware (my second love) gave me a little more access. Only gentoo allowed me to see (and attempt to understand) a true view of the install.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (5, Insightful)

SavedLinuXgeeK (769306) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951458)

Not only the install, but honestly having to compile your own kernel, just makes things work better. Everything about Gentoo is right, you know whats going in, and you know whats coming out. I don't run lsmod and see about 20 modules just floating there, like I did with mandrake, I know whats going on, I pick the modules that will be there. Its not just about access, its about actually using a pc, after years of submitting to MS's craptacular tendecies of hiding everything and sticking you with the bill, its liberating to actually know what module does what, and what program is running what service, etc. That is the true power of linux.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951501)

If you really want to know what's going on with your computer, I suggest you try constructing your own motherboard. Once you build a motherboard from scratch, you no longer have these random transistors lying around that you don't know the purpose of. Its not just about function, its about actually using pc hardware, after years of submitting to Asus and Epox's tendecies of not labeling everything and sticking you with the bill, its liberating to know what every piece of metal and plastic does what. This is the true power of not having a girlfriend.

Next project: building a monitor!

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951538)

Amen to that. Theres nothiong worse then blindly using something with the hope that it'll be alright.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (1)

jdowland (764773) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951583)

Not only the install, but honestly having to compile your own kernel, just makes things work better. Everything about Gentoo is right

funny that. I'd say being able to recompile the kernel is good, rather than being forced to.

No, it doesn't (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951459)

You still can use the "old" method of installing gentoo, so where exactly is the problem again?

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (3, Insightful)

onesandzeros (445024) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951467)

I often see this written. With the exception of a few lines in various /etc files, to be honest, I didn't learn so much about linux from Gentoo. I learned "scripts/bootstrap.sh" and then "emerge world" and the whatever else I wanted to install.

That's not to say I don't like it. I do. I think it's great. But, the last time or two that I did an install, I used Knoppix to do it. I think it's great that they might have a full GUI available during the build. And, I think we can expect them to have the CLI type install available as well.

I use it because of the clarity and thoroughness of the documentation on their website. I'd like to try Debian, but I can't find a single, succinct install doc like Gentoo's.

Chris

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (1)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951499)

Gentoo users say this so often I thought I'd give it a go. I'm sitting here watching the compiler output from building X.org, but I don't seem to be learning anything.
Maybe I'm doing something wrong - any pointers for me on how I should be learning from compiler output?

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (1)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951524)

I think the point is that while you are stuck watching compiler output, you will have nothing better to do but switch to a different tty and read man pages.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (1)

oexeo (816786) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951601)

Maybe I'm doing something wrong - any pointers for me on how I should be learning from compiler output?

Try:
# strace -f ./configure
# strace -f make
# strace -f make install

Then go mildly insane deciphering assembly instructions at high speed

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (1)

oexeo (816786) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951639)

Correction: I meant system calls, not assembly instructions.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (1)

JFitzsimmons (764599) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951695)

Here's something for you to learn today: you aren't looking at compiler output. That's actually the output from make. Unless there are errors or warnings (which you will see), gcc is silent.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (2, Interesting)

iyliki (749547) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951563)

You wanna learn something about the GNU/Linux system. You should try out Linuxfromscratch (lfs) http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/ [linuxfromscratch.org] ! But somehow I think it doesn't really do the job either. Still the system contol in gentoo is nothing compared to lfs.

Re:Breaks Gentoo as a learning tool (2, Insightful)

Sentry21 (8183) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951608)

While this is certainly a neat feature of Gentoo, I found it more of a pain than it was worth. The benefits of Gentoo, I have to admit, are notable, but the fact that the install process is basically copying and pasting from the on-line manual to the command line, hoping you didn't miss a step along the way, is pretty sad. If it's just a basic 'run all these commands' installation, why couldn't it do it on its own? Download a file with the commands and just run them. The installation would have taken less than half of the time with this simple step.

Of course (5, Funny)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951439)

the real hardcore Gentoo users won't consider you a Linux guru until your self-starting Linux system begins its bootstrap procedure by constructing your PC and CD-ROM drive using a desktop matter fabricator [slashdot.org] .

Re:Of course (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951455)

That is cheating! To do a proper gentoo install first you must recreate the big bang...

Easy guys it is a joke and I'm gentoo user.

Re:Of course (1)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951497)

What is the compiler flag for that ? -O4 ?

Re:Of course (1)

oexeo (816786) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951518)

> What is the compiler flag for that ? -O4 ?

No, -42

Re:Of course (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951613)

No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom.

Too bad it needs to be COMPILED first ;) (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951448)

What they don't mention in the article is, that of course the graphical installer needs to be bootstrapped before it can be used.. For that, they have included a new section in the installation guide: -1. Compiling the graphical installer.

Re:Too bad it needs to be COMPILED first ;) (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951493)

Like, so your telling me whatever application your runing isn't compiled? That would mean your eitehr using a mainframe with interpreted cobol or using the only browser written in bbc basic.

Oh, oh, I can see it coming (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951449)

Dozens of post making oh so funny remarks that they are still not done compiling the old version before the new one comes out.

At least as many posts telling us that gentoo is the best and only distribution real man can use and that their boxen run so much faster now.

Half a dozen links to funroll-loops posted.

Anyway, I think this is great news. Imho gentoo really is a great distribution for what it does but there have been a few things missing that now seem to fall into place.

Kickstart like functionallity was one and a really stable (not in that it does work, but as in install and then have a stable system that will not be updated but only receives bug fixes) is also on the way.

And portage will finally get reverse-dependency checking when uninstalling, at least some gentoo devs are working on it.

Go gentoo!

Re:Oh, oh, you saw it coming! (1)

Fortyseven (240736) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951714)

What the hell [funroll-loops.org] ! I'm still not done compiling the old version. Well, Gentoo [funroll-loops.org] is the best [funroll-loops.org] and only distribution [funroll-loops.org] real men can use. My box runs [funroll-loops.org] so much faster now [funroll-loops.org] !

*cough* Actually, I use Knoppix. ;)

isn't this what vidalinux does? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951465)

http://desktop.vidalinux.com

this will totally crush BSD (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951469)

Gentoo is just like BSD, but a million times better:

1. With Gentoo you can choose what version of software to install (tested or not very)

2. USB actually works

3. Ext3 is much better tested than UFS2 (and all Ext2 tools work with it too)

4. Portage works much more reliably than BSD ports system (because Portage installs in /var first and then moves stuff to /usr, wheres BSD ports aren't smart enough to do this)

The only thing that was keeping Gentoo behind BSD was the rather tedious installation (you have to follow some steps from the How-to). Now, with this automated, there will be absolutely no reason for anyone to use BSD

Re:this will totally crush BSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951530)

HAHAHHHAAH and maybe like, keeping BSD if security is an issue? Seems to make sense... considering Linux is now rated MORE insecure then windows.

Re:this will totally crush BSD (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951546)

If you would have the slightest clue as to how ports actually worked, you would've noticed it has WRKDIRPREFIX, which achieves the exact thing you're saying ...

Re:this will totally crush BSD (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951557)

No, it won't.

If you really want a rock stable system FreeBSD is still the way to go, as great as gentoo is, it can't compete in this area.

You'll also still have to compile all the software for your system, something you don't have to do, but can do using FreeBSD.

And of course there are many people that think that the BSDs have some security functionality gentoo or linux in general still lacks, e.g.: jails.

Finally, it is simply beyond me why you think that anything killing FreeBSD is a good thing. If gentoo fits your needs better than FreeBSD, use it, but what do you think gentoo or anyone else would gain from destroying FreeBSD?

Re:this will totally crush BSD (4, Interesting)

carnivore302 (708545) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951600)

I still have no idea why this would totally crush BSD. Gentoo is a linux flavour, so unless gentoo adds something not standard to linux, nothing has been gained. If Linux didn't already crush BSD before, I don't think it will do so because of gentoo. It is the quality of linux that moves people away from [insert your OS here], not the distro (which in the end are all the same plus some extras that set them apart from eachother)although I must admit gentoo is a very nice distro. I use it myself and am very happy with it, but wouldn't want to give it to linux newbies.

This will totally troll BSD peeps (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951622)

It's funny 'cause nothing...

Re:this will totally crush BSD (1)

tunah (530328) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951688)

And with -march=i666 -fomit-instruction-pointer, it's dying 110% faster!


(pity, I quite like it...)

reiser 4? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951475)

Does anyone know if this proposed livecd kernel will support reiser4, and does the livecd come with the necessary tools for reiser4?

Inexperienced (0, Troll)

nemsan (819279) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951476)

I'm in experienced you insensitive clod!

Re:Inexperienced (1)

deimtee (762122) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951582)

He was talking about inexperienced with linux.

gentoo already has a graphical installer (5, Informative)

DAC1138 (790625) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951478)

ummm, vida linux is gentoo with a graphical installer. i fail so see how the next 2005 release will be any different from vida.

http://gentoo.vidalinux.com/

Re:gentoo already has a graphical installer (2, Informative)

sbennett (448295) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951517)

Last I knew, Vida used a hacked up version of Anaconda to install the gentoo base system. The Gentoo installer will install with portage. That's quite a difference.

Disclaimer: I haven't used either, so I might be slightly inaccurate on the details.

Re:gentoo already has a graphical installer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951547)

What you mean apart from the small fact that vidalinux sucks ass and its actually quicker to do a Gentoo install from scratch than fix all the problems in a vidalinux install after its finished.

I get the impression from the artical when they say graphical install they don't mean anaconda.

Live-CD (2, Insightful)

Uukrul (835197) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951502)

Live-CDs aren't only good for test Linux, but Live-Cds are wonderful rescue Cds and make Linux-boxes where only windows is available.
I usually use Slax [linux-live.org] because it fits on a small 8cm CD-RW.
Gentoo it's another Live CD to add to the list [frozentech.com] whatever I can i'm goint to test this one.

Seems great (2, Interesting)

DeBaas (470886) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951503)

I think this is great. This weekend I installed 2004.3. I had to keep my laptop on the desk as well to read the install guide (handbook) and do other 'usefull' stuff such as browse the internet ;-) (Links for me is a little too bare)

I hope they include Open Office as well and a decent email client. That way you can boot of the disk, set the thing to install and, whilst installing or compiling, stay 'productive' the whole time!

Great when installing Gentoo on your office workstation ;-)

The graphical installer seems to me as best of both worlds, the control over your system as Gentoo users are used to as well as significantly reduced time spent on installing. If I get it right, the install time itself won't be shorter but it will be more of a 'setup what you want, press go, and wait' rather then, type command..... wait......type other command....... wait....... wait some more.....

Re:Seems great (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951560)

Although you could just install Gentoo from a Knoppix CD... No different from normal apart from you can play frozen bubble!

Re:Seems great (1)

jdowland (764773) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951562)

When I last installed my operating system it was over so quickly I didn't have time to do anything else, except maybe make a cup of coffee.

Is this installation thing going to make you rebuild all the packages then, is that why doing something productive at the same time is so important?

Re:Seems great (1)

bhima (46039) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951669)

you must be using BeOS or Haiku :)

Re:Seems great (1)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951567)

If you know exactly what you want to install then you can cut down the number of commands by quite a lot, by just putting all the packages on the end of one emerge command.

Star Wars Characters (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951515)

Why the hell do all these new Linux distros pick names like they are stage extras out of Star Wars movies. Either that or at best they come across sounding sickly... ..Gentoo ...Ubuntoo.... what next CheckOutMyGoo ?

Re:Star Wars Characters (4, Interesting)

Zork the Almighty (599344) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951541)

Gentoo is the name of a very fast type of penguin. George Lucas has no claim (he's too busy making turkeys).

Re:Star Wars Characters (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951642)

Here [google.com] are a bunch of real gentoo penguin pictures.

CLI good (1, Interesting)

darin3200 (791186) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951523)

When you install mandrake or suse, do you learn anything? No, you just click next, next, next until you are done. With gentoo you are forced to use command line which some say is too hard. But it really isn't, with the Gentoo Handbook the installation is all laid out for you and by actually installing it by hand and reading an entire manual to make sure you don't screw up you learn a lot and get a ton of command line expierence. Hopefully Gentoo continues to be innovative so its GUI installer doesn't end up like the rest.

Re:CLI good (1)

jdowland (764773) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951568)

But what is it? An installer or a command line tutorial? I like my installers to be good at their primary focus, as is the UNIX way.

Re:CLI good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951569)

While I like the way gentoo is installed now and I really learned a lot about how linux works using gentoo I just have on little question for you.

What about people that don't want to learn but just set up a working system as easily as possible?
Isn't that a valid wish?
Should those people not be allowed to use linux?

Re:CLI good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951573)

Gentoo is good due to the command line interface install, I agree with you there but the use of a GUI install is good for those who can't be bothered messing around with a command line install or when you can't be bothered to RTFM.

I've changed wagons a long time ago from Gentoo to Slackware as for one, I don't have the time to do compiles from source and also I just wanted something that worked and allowed for my hands to get dirty and configure my machine how I want it.

OH MY GOD! (1)

templest (705025) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951532)

*glee* Oh.. My.. God. Life is good again!

*throws out all old --failed-- gentoo cds and eagerly waits for a download*

Not that it's too difficult to install gentoo linux. But one has to agree, installing gentoo is a good long weekend project. Granted, you learn a lot about Linux while intalling it. But I just found that it was too counter-productive to install gentoo when I could just pop-in a slackware CD, go get a tasse-de-café and come back in 15 minutes to be greated by fluxbox. I did get it working once, but it was so unstable that I just weant back to slackware (Not that gentoo is unstable, just that I was too nub to install it properly).

I must admit I didn't rtfa, but if this thing can do a stage-1 install that gives you the option of customizing your kernel... I'm in.

I wonder... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951533)

Do you have to compile the graphical installer first?

rpm's? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951536)

when are the .rpm available?

Re:rpm's? (1)

MrEcho.net (632313) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951672)

Go back to RH little boy...

Gentoo rocks!!! (1)

OldGuyNew (797572) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951576)

I've been through a lot distros over the years. But Gentoo was the one that stayed installed on the hard drive. For me, it is all I ask of an OS. One of the best things that I absolutely love about Gentoo is the active and highly professional developer community. They really get it. Go Gentoo!!!

Gentoo Install Flexibility (5, Interesting)

Brian Blessed (258910) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951598)

It's very common for people on /. (who are, perhaps familiar with other distros) to denounce Gentoo for its lack of a graphical installer, but I've always seen this as a good thing. The person installing Gentoo has clear and precise instructions outlining what actions need to be performed, so they can very easily adapt those to a wide range of different situations. E.g. I don't like to have to burn CDs unnecessarily, so I make my kernel first and then network boot into the stage1 filesystem.

I believe that, in general, it's a better design decision not to have an overly intrusive installer for any software because that can tie too much of the software's configuration to the installation process, rather than having a comprehensive way to configure the software post-install.

- Brian

Re:Gentoo Install Flexibility (1)

slyckshoes (174544) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951659)

I agree with the parent poster. I also think that there is another benefit to the non-graphical installer + good documentation: education. After installing Gentoo on my workstation using a stage 1 tarball I had a much better idea of what was going on in my system and how to configure/tweak various things. The documentation is very well written (not flawless mind you) and I would argue that your average linux user will be much more informed about how to work with his system after installing Gentoo. I've also used SLES and RHEL, and while the install was very straightforward, I had no idea how to configure the system other than to try and find an item in the menu tree that seemed relevant to what I wanted to do.

Where's the proof. (1)

datadriven (699893) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951599)

I use slackware. I hear a lot of gentoo users say how much faster their systems are because they're so "optimised". Is there any evidence to this? Is the speed difference in units bigger than milliseconds? I tried to install gentoo once but I quite when I wasn't finished after several hours.

What about post-install management? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10951645)

I will admit I still haven't RTFA, but has the Gentoo crew fixed what is my biggest beef with their distro, i.e. the regular smashing of un-identified configuration files?

I mean, I can accept that various configuration files get overwritten when you upgrade stuff through Portage, but that you are (ok, _were_, as it has been a few moons since I used Gentoo) kept in the dark as to what has been nuked does not help me to keep a system running smoothly unless I spend time to track down and re-modify what was smashed back into default values or whatever by Portage.

I will admit I am going from memory here, but this is 2004, people, and it should not be a painfully involved process to keep a system running & tuned after it is installed. I should not have to spend time trying to identify changed configuration files and whatnot, I have better things to do with my life.

Or maybe I never understood how Gentoo worked. But having dealt with various flavours of *nix since my Ultrix-on-{micro}VAX days, I think I have somewhat of a clue on how to manage a *nix system. And yet, with Gentoo, I saw my system become more and more discombobulated due, as far as I could perceive it, to bad config. (Clue stick welcome, here, if I am out to lunch about this.)

So, back to my initial question/gripe, have the Gentoo crew worked at making post-install management of the box saner?

Newbies and Gentoo (3, Insightful)

fdesibert (767155) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951706)

I, myself, am fairly newbieish (a couple of years using linux, certainly no toothy, beared old UNIX veteran); but I found Gentoo, contingent upon RTFM and a little ingenuity, to be the easiest to fully install. When I use the term fully install, I mean install, finalize and gain complete control over. Things that could use improvement: 1) Fonts 2) Stupid, Bloody X configuration. Should be in Installation Docs not Desktop section. Many hours of frustration.


This is a receipt for $0.02 expended upon "My Opinion." Please retain for tax purposes.

There is only one problem... (5, Informative)

wolf31o2 (778801) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951707)

Ingrid took the things I said completely out of context and ran with them.

At no point did I ever tell her that we would have a graphical installer on 2005.0's release media. I also did not tell her that the 2005.0 release would be a Knoppix-style LiveCD, as it will, in fact, be exactly like the 2004.3 release with the Minimal, Universal, and Packages CD images.

What I did tell her is that we will have an experimental LiveCD with our first limited functionality beta of the installer, which will most likely be curses-based only and not have any enterprise-ready features available for use.

This is exactly why you demand to have interviews done via email and not the phone, especially when speaking with someone from another country, and be sure to ask to proof read the article for accuracy before it prints.

Some advantages of an installer (4, Interesting)

tmk (712144) | more than 9 years ago | (#10951710)

I want to outline some advantages of an installer:

  • You can configure the system first and the installer does the rest. No need to wait for the completion of step 1, step 2, step 3. You give just all information needed and the installer makes the rest. You can work something else until the installer is finished.
  • The learning effect is low when you have to type a long line of parameters from the manual. This does not mean, you have understood anything. With an installer you can give the lectures right on the right place. 'Learning by doing' instead of 'learning by typing'.
  • There is no real need to make the central configuration files by yourself. The normal user has only one set of devices, he will not change the /etc/fstab every week or once a year. Other distributions show that you don't need to know exactly the syntax of an file to know how the system works.
Load More Comments
Slashdot Login

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?