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315 comments

GNAA OWNS YOU (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974717)

Jon17 LOVES Happy new year from GNAA Happy new year from GNAA
By GNAA STAFF
Today, GNAA wishes you a merry christmas and a happy new year. It's been fun, gays!


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Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
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Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
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If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

________________________________________________
| ______________________________________._a,____ |
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ |
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ |
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| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ |
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ |
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ |
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ |
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ |
| ______-"!^____________________________________ |
` _______________________________________________'

fp! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974720)

fp!

Rendezvous? (2, Informative)

LEgregius (550408) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974724)

I believe Apple changed the name for that. The internal name is ZeroConf.

Re:Rendezvous? (4, Informative)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974931)

No. Zero Conf is an opensource project that has been around since before Rendezvous.

Rendezvous is apple's version of ZeroConf.

More info on ZeroConf [zeroconf.org]

More inof on Rendezvous [apple.com]

Re:Rendezvous? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974993)

ZeroConf was the open source version.

It is no longer called Rendezvous though. It's called OpenTalk.

Re:Rendezvous? (4, Informative)

podperson (592944) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975190)

Just to clarify the preceding correction:

Rendezvous and Zeroconf are the same thing, the latter being the Open Source release of the Rendezvous technology.

The ZeroConf page is maintained by Stuart Cheshire, who is the engineer at Apple responsible for Rendezvous.

Re:Rendezvous? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975302)

According to GNOME 2.8's changelog (I think that's where I read this), it's now called OpenTalk, actually.

In Korea, only old people ... (-1, Troll)

Koyaanisqatsi (581196) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974726)

In Korea, only old people preview Kde

In Corea... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974727)

Only old people use KDE!

Re:In Corea... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974781)

It's Korea! not "Corea"

COREA! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974856)

KEKEKEKEK err um CECECECE

Re:In Corea... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975181)

In Corea only old people use CDE

some KDE myths (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974729)

The KDE project is famous for its funded and organised trolling of weblogs and
message board associated with Linux and Free software/open source. Outrageous newbie
impressing claims are made for the software and huge quanities of FUD are spread to
destroy competitors. If this sounds familiar, then you are correct, most of these
tactics were lifted straight from Microsoft's arsenal of dirty tricks. The Windows
look and feel is not the only thing the KDE project has copied! In this short article
I will address some of the lies and FUD spread by the KDE trolling teams. It is my
hope that this, in some small way, will redress the balance and re-introduce two
things almost eradicated by the KDE project: Honesty and facts.

Myth #1 - KDE is more integrated than GNOME

The oft-heard cry of the noisiest KDE advocates. No explanation is given, the reader
is expected to simply grok the wholesomeness of KDE and the lack of this mystical
quality in GNOME. It is nonsense of course. Neither desktop is particularly
"integrated" compared to Windows XP, and certainly not compared any version of the
Apple Mac. Whatever "integrated" actually means.

Myth #2 - KDE is easier to use

Again, such nebulous arguments are never explained, and the reader is expected to
simply understand the truth of the zealots statement. Both KDE and GNOME have
user-interface irritations (all systems do), but "ease of use" is not a simple thing
to measure. KDE has never been subjected to detailed user testing, unlike GNOME
[gnome.org] [gnome.org], and the claims of user-friendliness are from crazed
supporters and not average users. Furthermore, the KDE faithful rarely look beyond
simple-minded copying of Windows, and forget that administering a desktop system is
just as important as having widgets in the correct place on the toolbar. For example:
What about application installation and removal? GNOME has the excellent RedCarpet by
Ximian [ximian.com] [ximian.com], which makes the installation, removal and updating
of applications trivial. KDE users are expected to fend for themselves with brutal
command line driven systems. GNOME also has the excellent Ximian setup tools to
handle various tricky cross-platform and potentially risky system configuration
operations. KDE offers none of this, only a few small half-assed Linux-only tools,
which make no attempt at check-pointing to return to known working configurations.

Myth #3 - KDE is more popular

In what sense? Arguably more people use KDE, but it is a close run thing. Most KDE
zealots use the results of online polls as proof of their superior userbase - which
is, quite frankly, complete and utter nonsense. Online polls are the joke of the
century; it doesn't even require a motivated script kiddie to render then worthless.
A single post alerting the faithful on a zealot-ridden site can skew the result so
much it makes American presidential elections look fair and well organised.
Popularity is also difficult to measure when *both* GNOME and KDE are frequently
installed on the same system. The systems can co-exist and even run at the same time,
except for certain applications such as panels. Many KDE users actually run GNOME
applications for their superior features and stability, not realising that by doing
so they are barely running KDE at all.

One of the few solid measures of popularity is commercial use of a desktop, and here,
GNOME is far ahead with both Hewlett Packard and Sun committing to using GNOME as the
desktop for their Unix systems. This also ties in with the previously mentioned ease
of use. Sun's major contribution to the GNOME project is in the areas of
user/developer documentation, testing, accessiblity and user-testing. Three of the
less glamourous parts of desktop development. The arrival of the GNOME 2.x series
will see these contributions reach fruitition and allow GNOME to make a quantum leap
ahead of KDE in most of the basic computer/user issues.

Myth #4 - Konqueror is the best Linux browser

Oh for a penny every time this lie is told in any KDE story! Konqueror not a bad
piece of software. It's authors deserve praise for the work done on it. However, the
sheer amount of orgasmic gushing by the KDE faithful is completely out of proportion
to its actual quality. It is quite unreliable and even simple standards compliant
pages can crash it quite comprehensively. It is also lax in its support of basic web
standards compared to either Mozilla or Opera. It is also extremely slow - much
slower than the latest incarnations of the GNOME Nautilus filemanager/browser (a
target of much KDE FUD during its development).

Myth #5 - KDE applications are better/more advanced than GNOME ones due to the ease
of developing in C++ using the Qt toolkit

See also: Qt/TrollTech. This is the most common wail heard by KDE developers, and yet
it is easily disproved by looking at the actual applications for GNOME/GTK and
KDE/Qt. KDE applications often have larger version numbers than GNOME ones... an old
trick played by commerical software developers. Most KDE apps seem to jump for 1.x
releases long before they are ready - KOffice being the best example. None of the
components in Koffice are worthy of a 1.0 release, let alone 1.1 or 1.2.

GNOME applications get much more testing in their 0.x stages and despite shorter
development phases they mature and reach stable featureful release states much more
quickly. Some examples of this are: the superb Evolution (groupware/email), Gnumeric
(spreadsheet), Pan (newsreader), The GIMP (image manipulation), Abiword (word
processing), RedCarpet, X-Chat (IRC client), XMMS (media player), Galeon (web
browser), and for developers: Glade and Anjuta. All of these packages ooze quality,
and far outclass their KDE counterparts. It is no understatement to say that GNOME is
at least 18 months ahead of KDE in applications, and pulling still further ahead.

It's not only in the area of user applications that GNOME is vastly more advanced.
With the forthcoming 2.x release, a number of impressive behind the scenes
technologies will finally mature: component technology (bonobo), media (Gstreamer),
internationalisation (pango). As a developement platform, GNOME 2.x is,
conservatively, 2-3 years ahead of KDE. And what is more, because it is not tied to a
lowest common denominator cross-platform bloat-fest like the Qt toolkit, the lead (as
with applications) can only increase further.

It is also worth noting that GNOME also develops code for use outside the project
(see the XML libraries as one example) - the KDE project rarely (if ever) engages in
this kind of work. KDE developers ensure that all software must link with Qt, and
hence tie it closely with the Qt toolkit preventing re-use and enhancing the value of
TrollTech intellectual property.

Yet despite all this, we are still regularly fed the lie that Qt and C++ makes
application and desktop development easier. Judge for yourself.

Myth #6 - KDE is faster and takes less memory than GNOME

KDE is written in C++. While this is not necessarily a problem, it can be when Visual
Basic reject programmers (which the KDE project is overrun with) do not know enough
to avoid important pitfalls that plague C++ software projects. Stupid use of
autoincrementing operators and iteration with C++ objects; and masses of unnecessary
allocations and deallocations of memory are two of the most common. KDE suffers badly
from both problems.

Perhaps the most cretinous of all problems is blaming the extremely slow startup
times of KDE apps on GCC. The GNOME 1.x releases were hardly svelt (2.x fixes many of
these issues), but GNOME is a fashion cat-walk superwaif when compared to KDE's 500lb
fat-momma cheese-burger scoffing trailer trash. One need only look at the recent fuss
over ugly KDE hacks (such as prelinking) used to bandage up the design and coding
flaws in the decrepit KDE architecture to see the truth.

Myth #7 - GNOME development is slower. KDE releases faster.

Fundamental misunderstanding. The KDE project releases as one big lump of code due to
its use of C++ and the many problems this causes with libraries. The project bumps
the version number of the entire KDE system for the smallest modifications. GNOME, on
the other hand is componentized and each component releases on a (almost) separate
schedule, bumping it's own version number but not the main GNOME version (1.4, for
example). Occasional releases of the entire GNOME system happen, and that's when the
GNOME version number is bumped (currently it is at 1.4). To see this in action, use
RedCarpet and you will regular updates to GNOME components. GNOME development is not
slower, it is in fact faster and more advanced. Lamers and newbies, however, fail to
understand the advantages of this method and just see KDE 1.1.1 followed a few weeks
later by KDE 1.1.2. Wow! KDE roolz.

Subversion support (3, Interesting)

Nosf3ratu (702029) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974748)

Nice to see some embedded support for Subversion. Not that I particularly like Subversion more than CVS, but it has some rather excellent features.

...no, I don't know why my Karma is terrible.

Re:Subversion support (-1, Offtopic)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974906)

Your poor karma is easy to explain, it is because of the high number of Troll and Redundant posts you have, hell even your 4 Funny has a Troll and Flamebait in it.

I have Excellent karma because typically all I say are things like this; stuff which people are hard pressed to find insulting or inflamitory.

Unfortunately, I just ruined it by posting off topic.

Re:Subversion support (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974979)

I have Excellent karma because typically all I say are things like this; stuff which people are hard pressed to find insulting or inflamitory.

Actually most of your posts are conforming and redundant, but thanks to meta-moderation you have high karma.

Re:Subversion support (0, Offtopic)

Megaweapon (25185) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975070)

Actually most of your posts are conforming and redundant, but thanks to meta-moderation you have high karma.

Conformity and the reiteration of said conformity by the SlashBot masses is what slashdot is all about.

Re:Subversion support (1)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975092)

Redundant? Not really, someone else would need to have said the same thing first for my posts to be redundant (I admit that I have been redundant a couple times by a few minutes, but that is hardly most of my posts).

This isn't redundant. [slashdot.org]

Nor is this, though after reading it I wish I could edit it, oh such awful grammer. [slashdot.org]

My parental post here wasn't either; the one following it was, as it said basically the same thing as me.

Conforming, yes, I conform with people's standard views of what is reasonable and constructive and sometimes amusing, else I could not get anything high on the karma-whoring train.

Re:Subversion support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975255)

Conforming, yes, I conform with people's standard views of what is reasonable and constructive and sometimes amusing, else I could not get anything high on the karma-whoring train.

Karma is a means not an end. You miss the point entirely, instead of posting your conforming pseudo-views, maybe you should post what you actually think. The idea is for intellectual, and interesting conversation, not some imaginary karma that returns you nothing in life. You truly are a karma whore, even by your own admission.

Re:Subversion support (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975025)

stuff which people are hard pressed to find insulting or inflamitory.


By which you mean redundant.

GET OVER IT (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975161)

You are yet another member of that infinite and immortal group of pure morons that can NOT learn. You probably fork out $ for it too. What a looser.
Get a life. Karma is actually just an integer on web sites.

ITS NOT REAL. You are probably hideously ugly in real life and cannot have REAL karma .

summary: get over it

Re:Subversion support (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974915)

...no, I don't know why my Karma is terrible.

Well, I just looked at some of your past posts. I'm pretty sure that I know why. :p

Re:Subversion support (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975284)

Dont be like the other nithing (morons) It has been known for some time now that

this site has GONE TO THE DOGS. Nothin else to see here. Move along....

Many of us know this. You are just too insecure to join that list..

Im tired of explaining it to you [freeshell.org]

beware of this (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974945)

And no, unlike what previous idiot stated, both images are not screenshots of different thresholds.

The site is as corrupt as the government that allows it to exist.. learn the easy, hard intermediate ..whatever way [freeshell.org]

Re:Subversion support (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974973)

Are you so engrossed in your own karma that you can't see the system?
Just start claiming you own a mac. Say some stuff about OSX and IPODs and you'll have excellent karma in no time.
Works for me, and I wouldn't buy a apple product if you put a gun to my head.

Re:Subversion support (1, Funny)

cakefool (801210) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975222)

Let me fetch my iMac10, we'll see if you change your tune...

What to expect, from the source (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974749)

Problem In Database Connection

Oh, OK.

Article text..... (4, Informative)

B5_geek (638928) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974753)

Incase of slashdotting:

KDE 3.3.2 was tagged today, so we should see a new bug fix release of KDE in the first or second week of December. Earlier this past week, the plans for a KDE 3.4 release were also finalized. This will be the last major KDE 3 release before KDE 4. KDE 4 will make use of the Qt 4 library which promises to be quite a revolution for KDE and all Qt applications, but will break binary compatibility with previous releases.

The release schedule for KDE 3.4 plans for an alpha release December 3, a beta release January 7, and a final release March 16 2005. The 3.4 release will bring a large number of features and functionality enhancements over previous KDE 3 releases. Here are some of the features already implemented:
Hardware Support

- Support for special keyboard keys on Dell Inspiron and ASUS laptops.
- A new battery monitor (under development).
- media:/ addition to the KDE I/O subsystem to list devices on the system.
KHTML and Konqueror

Konqueror

- KHTML has undergone major work lately, though much of it will appear in KDE 3.3.2. Merging with Safari fixes continues, alone with new work and fixes by KDE developers. Site compatibility continues to improve, stability is very much improved, and KWallet no longer blocks Konqueror while waiting for a password.
- Support for multiple site logins with KWallet (for all protocols, but not HTML form completions yet) added.
- A notifier was added to visually indicate when user-agent spoofing is active.
- KHTML plug-ins are now configurable, so the user can selectively disable ones that are not used. This does not include Netscape-style plug-ins.
- Netscape plug-in in CPU usage can be manually lowered, and plug-ins are more stable.
- Over the past couple of months, confirmed KHTML and Konqueror bug reports have been on a significant decline as bugs are fixed more rapidly and fewer are reported.
E-Mail and Personal Information Management

- Major improvements in synchronization, including support for synchronizing between two PCs.
- Enhanced support for groupware servers, including Exchange 2000, OpenGroupware, Kolab 1 and 2, SLOX, Groupwise, and eGroupware.

SLOX

- XFace support for associating faces with mail and news articles.
- Blogging and journal support.
- KMail supports KWallet.
- Client-side IMAP search support.
- Improved drag and drop in KMail.
- Improved anti-spam support in KMail.
- Uncountable other e-mail, organizer and address-book enhancements.
Kopete

- Novell Groupwise and Lotus Sametime protocol support added.
- Support for adding URLs to bookmarks.
- Drag and drop of files and contacts.
- The NetMeeting plug-in now allows the use of arbitrary applications to start a chat.
- Support for incoming MSN messages that are handwritten.
- An adium look-alike chat window style.
KPDF

- KPDF includes new numerous new features including:
- New rendering engine.
- Optimizations and enhancements for zoom, search, and thumbnails.
- Better printing (using Postscript directly).
- Support for password protected PDFs.
- Image extraction support.
- Nicer user interface in general.
Libraries

- QCA - A complete cryptography architecture.
- Usage of GCC 3.4 symbol visibility functionality for much improved application startup time.
- Optimizations of various styles and other components.
- Cleanup and reworking of KJSEmbed to make it much more functional.
- Password dialog gives feedback on the relative strength of new passwords.
Desktop / General

- KDM theme support.
- Numerous window manager enhancements, including indicators for remote applications.
- Major Kicker panel reworking, with support for hiding tray icons.
- Empty password support (password-less wallets) in KWallet.

KWallett

- Support for setting the clock with NTP.
- Completely redesigned, more flexible trash system.
Other Cool Things We Might See

All of these features are under development and may make it into KDE 3.4:
- DNSSD
- Support for Apple's DNS based service discovery.
- Network availability module.
- Support for the next generation Mozilla/Netscape plug-in mechanism.
- Reworked and enhanced WIFI manager.
- Subversion support.
- Wizard for easily connecting to network resources.

KDE 3.4 shows great promise already, and with three weeks until the feature freeze, we can expect to see more great things. This is by no means a complete feature list, but it does highlight some of the most important features we will see. As a developer working on a daily basis with what will become KDE 3.4, I have to say I'm already addicted, and it's hard to imagine working without some of these new features

Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974774)

...to prevent obvious karma whoring?

Re:Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (3, Insightful)

Ed_Moyse (171820) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974854)

Well, the site is down already and if he hadn't posted that then I wouldn't have been able to read the article. So I don't really think it's karma whoring.

Re:Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (0, Redundant)

Nohea (142708) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975013)

It is, since they get the +5 informative points.

Its not exactly informative, since there was no discussion, and the link was there at the top of the page.

We still could have read it if posted anonymously.

Re:Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (0, Redundant)

ErroneousBee (611028) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975006)

Shouldnt you be posting this under your logon, so we can mod your whineing OT comments down?

Re:Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975128)

Diff AC, but umm... it is blatant KW. Every post has this. It gets old.

"In case of /.'ing" OOPS DID I POST THAT UNDER MY NICK???

Re:Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (1)

SoTuA (683507) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975149)

Why do you care that someone is so obsessed with karma that he/she does a copy/paste of the article text?

Re:Shouldn't this be posted Anonymously... (1)

MORB (793798) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975239)

The whole karma system is supposed to favor people who post pertinent stuff, and respect good etiquette. And this is important, because people with high karma are more likely to get moderation point.

Re:Article text..... (1)

CerebusUS (21051) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974874)

- Support for Apple's DNS based service discovery.

Oh please please please let this be configurable (as in, I want to toggle it OFF) so those of us who used "company.local" for our Active Directory domains can still browse them from KDE.

Slashdotted (-1, Redundant)

rekle (89210) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974760)

The site is slashdotted already! :( Anyone know a mirror?

Re:Slashdotted (4, Funny)

Chuck Bucket (142633) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974809)

Here's a mirror [ulaval.ca] .

CB

I hope... (2, Interesting)

strredwolf (532) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974772)

...they fix alot of old bugs with KDE, including no auto-refresh!

autorefresh (3, Interesting)

b100dian (771163) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974914)

This is my problem too. everytime I look at KDE I get the feeling of a window manager that shivers (or refreshes) and it feels 'unstable'. Menus flickering, Icons redrawing etc. I see all these.
The problem comes when I try to find somebody that notices this too: google helps not, discussion lists either etc. Even people (like: real people) deny that they notice this refreshing/flickering.
This is one of the main reasons I avoid using KDE.. and this is one of the first times I read from somebody that he dislikes the same thing.
It's worse than a bug: it's undescribable and unreproduceable...

Re:autorefresh (4, Funny)

nick korma (836538) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975052)

are you sure your monitor is not next to a large fan?

Re:autorefresh (2, Interesting)

grqb (410789) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975153)

I get this too! Mostly it seems to happen when I open a window that has large directories in it...I always thought that it was calculating the size of the directory. It also happens when I'm downloading or moving a large file and it re-calculates the size of the file on the fly (every time it flickers it recalculates the file size).

This is quite annoying, I just shade the window until it stops flickering...sometimes this can take a while though...

Re:autorefresh (0, Troll)

strredwolf (532) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975201)

Both Konquerer, and KHTML doesn't impliment the HTML Meta-Refresh tag directive.

Re:autorefresh (1)

b100dian (771163) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975226)

oh

Real Window Managers (4, Insightful)

SlashdotMirrorer (669639) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974777)

I know I'll probably be modded down as flamebait for promoting alternative window managers in a KDE message thread, but I think it might be a good time for the every day user to take a look at how bearded terminal hackers are making things more efficient. Many "LINUX power users" are making their every day work more efficient by using and developing great window managers such as EvilWM, which I am currently typing this post up in.

Maybe a grassroots movement towards simpler window managers is in order. This would be a movement similar to what Bruce Perens trailblazed for GNU/Linux back in the early nineties to fight the onslaught of OS2 and Win 3.1. Now that we have a stable system to build upon after all of these years, we should concentrate on a good user interface. Not necessarily a Desktop User Interface, but a thin, lightweight interface that allows the user to more efficiently do their work without any messy cognitive analogies.

Re:Real Window Managers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974888)

Here's an idea... why don't people use what appeals to them without any grassroots movements or appeals or campaigns?

Re:Real Window Managers (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974910)

Everybody knows that the root of all politics is grass. Hemp has fueled political debate for the better part of the last three decades. Therefore the only way to successfuly solve the window manager conundrum is to legalize it. I mean, if windowmanagers aren't political, then I don't know what is pot flavored then.

Re:Real Window Managers (5, Interesting)

zenmojodaddy (754377) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974917)

Good call. The problem I have with both KDE and GNOME is that some packages offered as part of the desktop are so dependent on various other components that they're unusable on their own. I don't use GNOME at all but have had to install the full shebang when I install Slackware, because working out the various dependencies for a few packages is just too much work.

If Microsoft integrates a browser with a file manager, or hints at integrating a media player or anything else in the OS, everyone cries foul, so why is that considered good practice in the major *nix environments?

I'd much rather see a truly modular system, so the the user is free to pick and choose a window manager, a file manager, a browser, a messenger etc. and have them all play nice together, regardless of whether they are part of KDE or GNOME or standalone projects.

For the record: Slackware, Fluxbox and ROX-Filer all the way, baby.

Re:Real Window Managers (1)

nick korma (836538) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974999)

I am not what you would call an experianced Linux user so my opinion here is probably worthless - but when I have used linux - Suse, Mandrake, Knoppix, Gnoppix and more recently Morphix I have always found KDE to be a little hectic (hence the Gnoppix and Morphix use) - I know that you can change the fonts etc but I like a more rounded gui (this is all probably possible i know) I like the curves and welcoming feel of Gnome far more - I am currently playing around with a few live distro's before taking the plunge and installing it as my primary OS at home (Stuck on XP at work) just my ten cents worth

Re:Real Window Managers (1)

daijo78 (783312) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975007)

Have Slackware. Have Fluxbox. Got to check out that ROX-Filer thing then I guess:)

Re:Real Window Managers (3, Informative)

a_karbon_devel_005 (733886) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975100)

I'd much rather see a truly modular system, so the the user is free to pick and choose a window manager, a file manager, a browser, a messenger etc. and have them all play nice together, regardless of whether they are part of KDE or GNOME or standalone projects.

You can use a different window manager in KDE than kwin, as long as it's standards compliant.
You don't HAVE to use Konqueror in KDE.
You don't HAVE to use Kopete. You don't even have to install it.
MS bundles tend to be UNREMOVABLE from the system. That's the difference. KDE is just a collection of libraries. Some applications don't work all that well without certain other applications, but you're not FORCED to use/install most of them. And there must be SOME interoperability between the applications to get a smooth, polished DE. But really it's not as bad as you make out.

Re:Real Window Managers (1)

SlipJig (184130) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975209)

I agree. I prefer to use Enlightenment [enlightenment.org] (btw, DR17 [enlightenment.org] is now in CVS!), and one problem I've run into is that if I try to fire up Nautilus, it stomps all over the E desktop and pulls up the Gnome desktop instead... well, actually it's a kind of weird fusion, with the Gnome background and icons but E stuff there as well.

I do like E's eye candy, but am sympathetic to the parent poster's argument for a leaner, cleaner desktop/WM. Many of E's themes are over-the-top, but at least it's flexible and fast enough to support a lean environment. E runs at least twice as fast on my machine as either Gnome or KDE.

Re:Real Window Managers (2, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975311)

You need to use nautilus --no-desktop. That should fix your problem with the icons.

Re:Real Window Managers (1)

Walles (99143) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975213)

working out the various dependencies for a few packages is just too much work

If you think working out package dependencies by hand is a mess (I definitely agree), why are you using Slackware? On Debian Testing, over 16000 packages are just an "apt-get install foo" away.

If Microsoft integrates a browser with a file manager, or hints at integrating a media player or anything else in the OS, everyone cries foul, so why is that considered good practice in the major *nix environments?

When Microsoft does that, it's an attempt at unfairly strengthening their monopoly. When KDE or GNOME does the same, that's their fair attempts at gaining market share.

Being a convicted monopolist makes all the difference.

Re:Real Window Managers (4, Insightful)

SyntheticTruth (17753) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975282)

"If Microsoft integrates a browser with a file manager, or hints at integrating a media player or anything else in the OS, everyone cries foul, so why is that considered good practice in the major *nix environments?"

But KDE *does not* tie the browser to the OS, it ties the browser to the *desktop* and there is a *HUGE* difference in that. I can't think of any part of Konqueror that directly makes calls to kernel functions (though admittingly I have not dove deep into the code.)

MSIE is a beast that is *tied* to the kernel, uses kernel internals, and thus, is bad. I have yet to see *any* *nix desktop/window manager that does such a thing.

Re:Real Window Managers (1, Insightful)

herc_mk2 (586993) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975288)

The problem I have with both KDE and GNOME is that some packages offered as part of the desktop are so dependent on various other components that they're unusable on their own.

The problem I have with both KDE (which I use) and GNOME is that they both require that ancient bloatware package known as "The X Window System."

Much as I dislike Microsoft Windows, the Win32 GDI (which ain't that much different from the Win16 GDI) is very thin and provides more than enough functionality and device independence for 99.9% of the users out there. How often do you need to run an X app across the wire? How many times do you need to support multiple displays and screens (OK, this is slashdot, so I know some of you do -- I have myself, but it's very rare).

I'd love to see a thin, fast, cross-platform replacement for X.

Re:Real Window Managers (5, Informative)

a_karbon_devel_005 (733886) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975051)

Bleh.

1) KDE != WM. Repeat after me: "KDE IS NOT A WINDOW MANAGER." It's a desktop environment and it does way, WAY more than a simple WM. God it's 2004 people, HAVE YOU NOT LEARNED THIS YET?

2) The IMMENSE proliferation of small, lightweight WMs has ALWAYS been active in the Linux community. EvilWM, IceWM, TWM, BlackBox, FluxBox, Waimea, Kahaki, etc. etc. etc. There is really NO NEED for any more WMs to "get back to basics" THEY'RE ALREADY OUT THERE. Most of them are damned good as they are. Real users want MORE features at this point, these kind of posts are just counter productive. It's 2004. People want to USE the 2.4Ghz 64 bit Athlon they just bought (for cheap). Mom doesn't want fluxbox, she wants her computer to put up a little CDROM icon when she inserts one into her computer. Congrats KDE team on making an efficient, fun, functional DE.

Re:Real Window Managers (1)

rseuhs (322520) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975111)

[..] more efficient

Yeah right. So instead of Konqueror being preloaded and popping up in half a second (still too long, but bearable) I have to load a standalone browser and wait for 5 seconds or longer.

Same goes for filemanagers of course.

Yes, if you don't run any serious applications alternatives might be "more efficient", but Konqueror running on KDE is by far the fastest browser on Linux.

Re:Real Window Managers (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975145)

If you want to see one, code it. Otherwise, shaddap and stop your whining and get a job.

Re:Real Window Managers (1)

Seli (51600) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975260)

First of all, I suggest you find out what the difference between a desktop environment and a window manager is.

I wonder, what exactly are you trying to say with the title "Real window managers"? That KDE doesn't have a real (whatever that is supposed to mean) window manager? How comes then users of all those real window managers moan (http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/ 11/29/171204 [slashdot.org] - search for not stealing focus or opening new applications on the virtual desktop they were started on) about (lack of) window manager features KDE's window manager has had since some time already?

And, you know, features have their costs. Imagining my mum or sister using EvilWM (presumably together with xterm, right?), that's not even funny ... that's cruel.

Re:Real Window Managers (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975313)

Great trollin'. You managed to get quite a few mods :-)

-1 Troll (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974784)

An Alpha release is due any minute so you might as well know what you're in for if you're a loyal K head.

A half ass windowing system that isn't even up to par with windows 95 or OS 9?

KDE Again! (0, Flamebait)

jon855 (803537) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974793)

Welome back KDE, now it got to fight for my GNOME space... I just hope KDE won't be as bloated s before. god bless Gnome and KDE users all alike.

the Devil is in the Details (4, Insightful)

DarkSarin (651985) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974800)

which is what this article lacks. Don't get me wrong--there is some cool information there, but I want to see screenies of the entire desktop--has that changed much or not?

I would also like more information about the core KDE, not just the peripheral stuff like Konq & KHTML.

All that said, the idea of a new version of KDE is fairly kool, but frankly, as an XFCE user (and occasionally Gnome), I find the KDE desktop & icons to be just a shade on the kludgy side. They don't look as clean or professional in my mind.

But that's just one geek's opinion.

Re:the Devil is in the Details (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974998)

I find the KDE desktop & icons to be just a shade on the kludgy side.

The icons and the general look are easy to be configured to ones liking. I don't say that one has to like KDE, but "I don't like the icons" is not a very godd reason... :)

Obligatory Futurama quote (4, Interesting)

RPoet (20693) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975156)

I don't say that one has to like KDE, but "I don't like the icons" is not a very godd reason...

Calculon: An Oscar, you say? That would get me out of this festering rat's nest called "television" once and for all. Let me see the script. [Zoidberg hands it to him and he speed-reads it.] No, no I don't like the font.

Slashdotted already (-1, Redundant)

Sesse (5616) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974801)

Use Coral [nyud.net] (given that they manage to get through at least once and cache the page) :-)

/* Steinar */

Re:Slashdotted already (1)

mhesseltine (541806) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975269)

Not that anybody actually reads the FAQ, but wouldn't information on using Coral be something good to put in the FAQ, under the section on submitting stories?

Then, if (and this is a BIG if) the editors were to view the page (using the Coral link) before posting the story to the front page, the Coral cache would have had a chance to get to the page before the /. effect took place.

And, while I'm offtopic to the main discussion; how about a Slashdot.org story, maybe once a month, where discussions about Slashdot could take place. This would let people discuss how Slashdot works in a particular forum, instead of having to venture offtopic.

Konqueror + Gecko? (5, Interesting)

ScriptMonkey (660975) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974808)

Does anyone know if this will include Konquerer with the ability to use the Gecko rendering engine?

Re:Konqueror + Gecko? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975136)

What's wrong with KHTML?

Re:Konqueror + Gecko? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975175)

The changes needed are not on the KDE side, the changes have to be applied in the Gecko/mozilla sources. Basically making Gecko a kpart for use in KDE. At least some of the changes are in.

Re:Konqueror + Gecko? (4, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975200)

Using kdebindings you can easily tell konqueror to use gecko instead of khtml

mEp? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974816)

most people into a 4boUt 700 users

Does it have a proper exchange handler (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974818)

Does it have proper exchange support in korganiser and kmail?.. if not then whats the point of the new version hahehehe. j/k

Re:Does it have a proper exchange handler (5, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975021)

OK, this was a troll, but from here [kde.org] :
Kontact


  • Add alternative tab-based viewmode. Daniel Molkentin
  • SnapIn/SnapOut actions for changing between an app running stand-alone or embedded in Kontact at run-time.
  • Make Kontact (KOrganizer/KMail) work with Exchange 2000. Daniel Molkentin
So I guess that's a "yes."

Groovy man (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974863)

i cant wait till i get my hands on KDE-3.4.x

i got 3.3.1 running nicely on Slackware-10 and it is absolutely beautiful...

definitely a windoze killah...

IMAP filtering in KMail (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974870)

Anyone know if the new KMail will supported incoming message filtering on IMAP folders? The ONLY reason I'm stuck using evolution at work is because evolution can sort mails coming into my IMAP Inbox into various other IMAP folders.

Re:IMAP filtering in KMail (4, Informative)

Daengbo (523424) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975114)

From here [kde.org]
KMail
  • Asynchronous encryption Ingo Kloecker , Marc Mutz
  • Namespace support for IMAP Carsten Burghardt
  • Using komposer Zack Rusin
  • Full text indexing Don Sanders
  • Leave on server for x days for POP Don Sanders
  • Asynchronous filtering Don Sanders
  • Multi/part related mails Don Sanders
  • Get rid of mimelib (a.k.a. KMime). Marc Mutz
  • Redesign filters to use Sieve internally. Allow editing of Sieve scripts on IMAP servers to get rid of the bug reports a la "KMail doesn't support IMAP folders for filtering" Marc Mutz
  • Make the visible headers configurable, allow for "show all and hide specified headers" as well as "show specified headers". Already available as a patch. Klas Kalass
  • Rewrite the composer window to drop KEdit and support richtext engines. (old ktexteditor patch available here). See also the new code in libkdepim/komposer Zack Rusin
  • Improved configuration of header and attachment views Aaron J. Seigo
  • Asynchronization of crypto operations. Ingo Kloecker
  • Automatic HTML to plaintext conversion when replying to HTML mails. Don Sanders
  • Make use of KWallet. Ingo Kloecker
So...yes?

Re:IMAP filtering in KMail (1)

a_karbon_devel_005 (733886) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975129)

No ETA afaik. There are extensive bug reports on it though, it's "on the radar."

Report from KDE World Summit, Day 7: (3, Interesting)

Mstrgeek (820200) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974873)

This is good Article dealing wih Kide written by Tom Chance

http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=04/08/30/2 028209

Hope you find it to educational

More complete feature plan (4, Informative)

kigrwik (462930) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974883)

A more complete feature plan can be found here [kde.org]

Though it's not always up-to-date (some devs prefer pushing their code first, and *then* update the page).

HTH,
Kig.

Needs less bloat! (-1, Troll)

liber8ed (827631) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974900)

KDE has a lot of potential, but even KDE 3.3 is buggy, slow and bloated with useless features.

Instead of adding more feature, why not try to fix the one already added and make it more efficient and streamlined

khtml get fewer bug report (-1, Flamebait)

cyfer2000 (548592) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974908)

And mozilla/firefox get more and more bug report. Does that mean the quality of khtml is better than mozilla/firefox or something?

Re:khtml get fewer bug report (1)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974980)

I don't think so.

More likely it is based on the number of users; you see, Mozilla works on Windows (you know, where the users are). With the increasing number of Mozillia users they have more people testing their stuff, Konquerer doesn't have that Windows user base.

Re:khtml get fewer bug report (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975155)

No. That's a hard conclusion to draw merely from bug submission rates. There are a number of other factors you have to consider to determine quality too. How do the features compare? How many users are submitting bugs? Where are the bugs occuring? How often are users using each feature?

The number of uses would be the first consideration, and by virtue of working on Windows, Mozilla just has more users. The second consideration is where are the bugs being found. If they're mostly being found in core functionality, it's likely that there is fringe functionality that cannot even be reached, hiding a totally unknown number of bugs.

Project management isn't really my thing, so I'm not sure all the factors involved, but simple bug counts and submission rates aren't enough to say much of anything.

Thanks a bunch (0, Offtopic)

allden (748789) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974941)

...but my system cannot run KDE as its libkdecore is screwed :-(.
Everytime I try updating KDE, it fails

Re:Thanks a bunch (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975106)

It wouldn't be screwed if you used gentoo.

gmail? (1)

b100dian (771163) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974989)

Wait a minute!
Since when does Gmail support Konqueror?

Re:gmail? (2, Funny)

LMCBoy (185365) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975094)

Since when does Gmail support Konqueror?

Gmail doesn't support Konqueror, but Konqueror now supports Gmail.

Re:gmail? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975124)

Since 3.3.2, all changes from head(future 3.4) concerning Gmail support has been backported.

Re:gmail? (1)

Balinares (316703) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975135)

GMail has been working with Konqueror for a little while. As of version 3.3.1, I believe. You still have to either spoof your user agent, or force GMail to accept Konqueror, though, I believe.

Mirror! (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10974991)

Mirror [mirrordot.org]

Isn't a K-Head? (0)

the_thunderbird (682833) | more than 9 years ago | (#10974996)

A person who does ketimine? Do we get free K with this new version of KDE?

Rendezvous support is nice, but ... (2, Interesting)

YetAnotherName (168064) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975057)

... but it's the applications that use it that will matter. Over on Mac OS X, Rendezvous is what lets you stream your iTunes music or share your iPhoto pictures. Will KDE's media player let you stream music to other KDE media players on the network? Or better yet, to and from other iTunes players?

Unfortunately, the article doesn't say so.

Re:Rendezvous support is nice, but ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#10975192)

Posting AC, as I just mod'ed this thread, but have to agree with parent. The post didn't specify whether any KDE *apps* have added code to make use of zeroconf (or "Rendezvous"). If they haven't, then it isn't worth a lot [to end users] just to have KDE support it at the core level: will Juk search for DAAP-provided music on the network? will Konqueror search for HTTP-provided content on the network? etc. Still, I'm rather excided to to see the underpinnings of this start falling into place (zcip and tmdns, as already in Mandrake, and whatever KDE seems to bring to its future app work).
slide-rule

Way to go KDE and Apple (1)

Listen Up (107011) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975098)

It is good to see Apple improvements making their way into KDE and Linux. I recently purchased a PowerMac and made the switch from Linux/Intel to Apple/PPC. Mac OS X is absolutely everything I have ever wanted in a beautifully polished and useful user interface with everything I have ever wanted in a UNIX underneath. What a beautiful OS.

Re:Way to go KDE and Apple (0, Flamebait)

Anonimo Covarde (669695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975243)

Do you spit or swallow?

Pocket PC Sync (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975130)

Anyone know when the kitchensync will work generically with PocketPC devices?

So tired of keeping outlook around just for the ability to sync/backup...

apple's rendezvous (1)

Miguel de Icaza (660439) | more than 9 years ago | (#10975194)

how does rendezvous compare with Microsoft's Universal Plug and Play standard (as found in Media Center Extender)? They sound very similar to me, but MCE inevitably will become the ubiqutous home Discovery standard so isn't this effort just (no offence) 'accademic crap' at the end of the day.
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