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Dell Calls For Red Hat To Lower Prices

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the free-as-in-dollars dept.

Red Hat Software 526

VaultX points to an article on CNET (linked below), writing "According to Dell, Red Hat needs to lower pricing. 'We believe Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3, for the small and medium-sized business market, was out of the price range of these customers.' With Dell's strong presence in the Linux server market, Red Hat may want to listen."

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Dremel Stock skyrockets thanks to GNAA takeover (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027691)

Dremel Stock skyrockets amidst rumors of GNAA takeover

The handheld multi-tool industry has been infected by the hostile takeover bug, and industry ANALysts are inflamed with latest hot bombshell to drop on one of the most highly watched sectors of cheap japanese shit that breaks like the second time you use it; rumor has it that the GNAA may be planning a hostile takeover of the Bosch Tool, solely for the purposes of revamping the stagnant multi-tool division. Dremel sandwich-board spokesman and former HIV candidate John Kerry was unavailable for comment, as he was leaking gallons of botox and texan man-spurt from his ocular and anal cavities respectively.

Chief GNAA Metallurgist and Head technician l0de was contacted for information about the possible takeover. We were permitted to interview him as he welded pubic hairs onto a giant steel nigger wang installation at the GNAA worldwide complex.

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"You see, you dirty kike, the GNAA has plans for this dismal retailer of shitty tools. We've taken a look at what can be done with the current dremel stock, and to tell you the truth, I'm not impressed. You can see one of our test-runs on the website of Dremel themselves, where we demoed one of their pumpkin carving tools. The Dremel tools were great for carving the sacred of visage of goatse (PBUH) into pumpkins and with soft-felt tip attachments, seemed adequate for polishing the assholes of our boyslaves, but they're just not exploiting their full potential. To really get the most out of a hand tool, you need to have something no Dremel tool, currently offers correctly, and that's reciprocating force. Allow me to demonstrate.

l0de then seized former junior reporter Carl Stevens (obituaries, page 4) with one hand and proceeded to analy violate him with what has been described as a "gasoline powered rotary pneumatic gattling dildo." The resulting screams were reported to the police by people as far as 10 km away.

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At this point the interview was ended as the journalists in fear they would never shit right again for the rest of their days. This is truly thrilling news for industry watchers and consumers alike.

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| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
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| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_indian@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2004 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027695)

fp mf

Donald Duck (0, Offtopic)

DonaldDuckBigO (749237) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027700)

Donald Duck is going to lower the price of his SCREAMING ORGASM for his fr!st ps0T!!!

DONALD DUCK IS GOING TO GET A SCREAMING FAILURE! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027735)

You fail it! QUACK!

They are right! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027703)

Win2k3 is both cheaper and better.

RHEL 3? (0, Troll)

multipartmixed (163409) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027706)

Time Warp? WTF?

Re:RHEL 3? (1)

Refrozen (833543) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027755)

Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?

Duh?

Re:RHEL 3? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027761)

> Time Warp? WTF?

Jesus: E. N. T. E. R .P. R. I. S. E. Dumbass.

Re:RHEL 3? (4, Funny)

GrenDel Fuego (2558) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027766)

Timewarp?

Version 3 is the current version of Red Hat Enterprise Linux (RHEL). RHEL is different than Red Hat Linux (RHL) which was end of lifed after version 9 to be replaced by Fedora Core.

Re:RHEL 3? (1)

ptlis (772434) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027858)

Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3

Re:RHEL 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027925)

I still use RHL 2 and I have no problems.

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Re:RHEL 3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11028009)

That comment is only funny if you've never used Linux.

ANONYMOUS COWARD CALLS FOR FERRARI TO LOWER PRICES (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027708)

'We believe the Ferrari F430 Spider, for the small and medium-sized automotive market, was out of the price range of Mr. Coward.' With Coward's strong presence in the local Ferrari dealership, Ferrari SpA may want to listen.

Re:ANONYMOUS COWARD CALLS FOR FERRARI TO LOWER PRI (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11028023)

With Coward's strong presence in the local Ferrari dealership

So that's where that smell is coming from!

Well.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027710)

The can always get this 'free' linux beer I have been hearing about and switch to an alcohol business with 100% profit.

FP (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027714)

classy!

www.giraffecycle.com

They could be lower but not by much (3, Insightful)

Facekhan (445017) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027716)

The prices are a little bit on the high side, but you are buying support not the software for the most part and they are certainly not higher that Windows Server 2003 which they are setup to compete with.

RHS 3 is a pretty solid server IMHO, after using it for a few months on a web server and finding it far superior and simpler to manage than the Solaris box the company has its other website on.

Re:They could be lower but not by much (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027776)

A bit of Sun bashing, and voilá, instant karma.

Re:They could be lower but not by much (1)

Saeed al-Sahaf (665390) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027814)

Nothing beats my SPARC 10, but RHEL3 is very close and a lot cheaper.

Re:They could be lower but not by much (1)

adeydas (837049) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028059)

that's what i'd like to say too. RHL is used for servers and support and power more than money should be the concern there... i guess they should think about reducing the price of mandrake...

RHAT listens to Dell? WTF? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027718)

Was that some kind of sarcastic editorial about Dell's "strong presence?" You can, on a good day, for a high premium, *maybe* get a Dell rep to sell you a server with Linux in addition to Windows.

Re:RHAT listens to Dell? WTF? (1, Informative)

Sc00ter (99550) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027861)

I just went to the Dell website and every server I clicked on customize I could get with no OS, Windows, or RHEL. No OS was the cheapest, with RHEL next, then Windows.

Re:RHAT listens to Dell? WTF? (1)

KingPunk (800195) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027964)

you're right about the cheapest issues, no os, rhel, then windows.
but um, dell is calling for rhel to lower its support costs?
does microsoft even provide comprehensive support?
(sue me im a naieve linux user)
but i believe windows' prices to be alebit inflated too?
but um, why isn't dell calling for lower prices on windows servers? as if the world isn't round.. sheesh!
--kingpunk

Re:RHAT listens to Dell? WTF? (3, Informative)

LittleLebowskiUrbanA (619114) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028007)

Whatever. Buying a Dell server with Linux was easy for me. I can even transfer the Redhat Network license/updates and the server's warranty online to a customer. And I did NOT buy Windows.

.edu price (4, Informative)

i.r.id10t (595143) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027720)

Yeah, the college I worked at balked at the prices too, until I told them about the $50 .edu price (workstation is $25) ... Couldn't find anything on their website, but a email to the sales department took care of it.

Re:.edu price (4, Informative)

i.r.id10t (595143) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027749)

http://www.redhat.com/solutions/industries/educati on/indiv/

Sorry, should've googled before posting... well when we needed it, it wasn't on the site :)

Re:.edu price (1, Redundant)

Curtman (556920) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027816)

Slashdot puked on your link. here [redhat.com] is a good one.

Re:.edu price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027871)

"a email"

Sorry, but I was just looking at the article about poor grammar and spelling in the corporate world. Apparently, it's everywhere.

Re:.edu price (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027914)

"a email"

naah, that's just a typographical.. typing so fast he missed the n. And since i have a poor grasp on grammar I not sure if the corporate world is everywhere or poor gramar and spelling.

Other Linux competitors (4, Insightful)

Devil's BSD (562630) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027727)

Couldn't/Shouldn't Dell look into other Linux server packages? After all, that is the nature of the free market. If Dell drags Red Hat and, say, Turbolinux, or god forbid... SCO... into the fray, that would make the bottom line for companies looking to switch to Linux even more appealing.

Re:Other Linux competitors (4, Informative)

njcoder (657816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027783)

" Couldn't/Shouldn't Dell look into other Linux server packages?"

It's not that easy. Linux distributions vary. A lot of applications that people are buying for these servers are certified torun on RHEL and sometimes Suse's enterprise linux. Things like oracle may not run on debian.

Re:Other Linux competitors (3, Informative)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027786)

Couldn't/Shouldn't you look in to RTFA or something?

"And Dell has the marketing muscle to make its opinions clear. Indeed, Red Hat's pricing was instrumental in Dell's decision to sign its October pact to sell Novell's SuSE Linux. "

Doubtful (1)

yoshi_mon (172895) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027812)

Dell is, and has always been, a very conservative company. Look how long they have stayed with Intel even though AMD has had a superior price/performance ratio for years now.

With Novell having it's own plans for SUSE I don't think that would be an option. I don't see them switching to an out of country distro like Mandrake or Turbo. And after that your into "hacker" distros like Slack or Gentoo which is basically out of the question.

Re:Other Linux competitors (3, Interesting)

0racle (667029) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027828)

"Oh, you don't carry Red Hat? Well we were kinda looking to get a Linux box. Thanks, we'll be talking to IBM."

Sorry but Red Hat IS Linux to many businesses. Thats why Sun directs its challenges to Red Hat, thats why MS talks about Red Hat when they do the TCO arguments, Red Hat is the most visible company selling a Linux system. If you want to aim big, and Dell does, if your not going to carry Red Hat, there's no point in carrying Linux at all.

Re:Other Linux competitors (1)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027852)

You are part right, Red Hat is at the front of business linux so it gets attention but make no mistake about it, if there was no red hat they'd attack your distro, or his distro. They learned from SCO if you attack linux you get the horns from the entire OSS community, but if you go after the successfull "microsoft of linux" evil red hat, well then you are safe to badmouth linux.

Re:Other Linux competitors (1)

subsolar2 (147428) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027868)

Couldn't/Shouldn't Dell look into other Linux server packages? After all, that is the nature of the free market. If Dell drags Red Hat and, say, Turbolinux, or god forbid... SCO... into the fray, that would make the bottom line for companies looking to switch to Linux even more appealing.
DELL recently came up with a deal with Novell to sell SuSE Enterprise 9 on there servers. For $280/yr Dell will provide support on certain models (28xx series if I remember correctly).

See http://www.novell.com/news/press/archive/2004/10/p r04072.html [novell.com] and http://www.dell.com/novell/ [dell.com]

Re:Other Linux competitors (1)

online-shopper (159186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027989)

If Dell could justify they're price tag with service reps that could speak my native language(english). I might consider it.
As it is, I would rather purchase a whitebox and load RHEL myself.

Re:Other Linux competitors (2, Informative)

subsolar2 (147428) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027994)

Just looked it up on their site at It's $174/Yr for support of SEL 9 for a single CPU server and $260/Yr for a dual CPU server. Cheaper than minimum $350/Yr for RHEL and alot cheaper than the $900/Yr Novell wants you to pay for support.

For $175 per single-CPU server annual maintenance subscription and $269 for a dual CPU subscription, Dell and Novell offer Linux customers additional choice on Dell's award-winning PowerEdge 1850, 2800 and 2850 servers. SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 is the first enterprise-class Linux server to leverage the performance, scalability and security features of the new Linux 2.6 kernel. This new platform is ideal for customers deploying Web farms, IT infrastructures and custom applications. The operating system will be bundled with the server at the time of purchase. A joint service agreement between the two companies provides customers with the same levels of award-winning support for SUSE LINUX Enterprise Server 9 as all other operating systems.

BTW We just got a 2850 (to run netware) and it's pretty sweet ... only down side is when you first power it up it sounds like a 747 taxing for takeoff. After server management board boots it throttles the fans to something reazonable ... power cycling the server is not something I plan on doing more than once a year so I can deal with that.

CentOS (1)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027873)

CentOS is basically just a totally free and open version of RedHat Enterprise Linux, and it's really nice. Although there's no one to call if someone goes wrong, it basically offers everything feature-wise that RedHat does. check it out here [caosity.org] .

Re:CentOS (1)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028034)

CentOS is basically just a totally free and open version of RedHat Enterprise Linux

There are a couple of projects doing this.

See also Tao Linux [taolinux.org] and White Box Linux [whiteboxlinux.org] .

There's a list of similar projects [taolinux.org] on the Tao Linux site, including a roll-your-own-distro-from-RHEL-SPRMS HOWTO.

Bah, (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027733)

I think they need to lower the price of Fedora.

It'll Happen (5, Insightful)

Refrozen (833543) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027738)

I imagine it'll happen. I have a feeling RH gets most of their sales from Dell, it's the ole'Walmart syndrome, where they either lower their prices, and go out of business, or go out of business because they lose their main client.

Damned big companies.

Re:It'll Happen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027891)

Lessee, Redmond must be next.

Riiiiight!

in other news (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027742)

slashdot calls for microsoft to opensource windows

Re:in other news (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027854)

You want the source? You can't handle the source!

i'll never trust dell for a lot of reasons but (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027744)

here's one of them. It's a personal account of working inside of the "dell beast." Written by the site maintainer of www.amdzone.com it was written only a few days ago. Most of the thoughts reflect my sentiment and experience with dell..

here it is [amdzone.com]

John Allen Mohammed

RedHat screwed (2, Interesting)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027748)

Way too arrogant of a company for what they do... they are losing OEM support and customers who don't feel like being extorted.

As faras IBM is concerned, Suse is the only linux. And Novell is willing to discount things very heavily.

Re:RedHat screwed (4, Informative)

Curtman (556920) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027857)

As faras IBM is concerned, Suse is the only linux.

Someone better tell IBM that then [ibm.com] :

  • Red Hat Enterprise Linux now pre-loaded on xSeries!
    Deploying Red Hat Enterprise Linux on xSeries is now even easier. I November 2003, IBM introduced bundles of Red Hat Enterprise Linux with xSeries servers. Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS 2.1, Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES 2.1, or Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS 2.1 may be ordered when purchasing BladeCenter and xSeries servers. Offers are available with a "No Support option", which will allow the customer to purchase support from IBM Global Services. Also available are offers with 1 year of Red Hat support. Every copy of Red Hat Enterprise Linux includes a one year subscription to Red Hat Network. Now, customers can buy either Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES or WS 2.1 pre-loaded on x205, x225, x305, x335, and x345 servers in the US. For all other models, Red Hat Enterprise 2.1 Linux will be included with the server and installation will be performed by the customer. In 2Q04, Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 will be available via similar offers.

Re:RedHat screwed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027879)

IBM is not exactly a fair point to bring up, they invested 50 million in SuSE during the buy out. of course they want to push it, it makes them rich.

Redhat arrogance (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027968)

The OpenSSH developers won't support Redhat users, because of their messing around [theaimsgroup.com] with the distribution tarball and ongoing refusal to discuss the issue in public.

Re:Redhat arrogance (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11028049)

More like typical opensores developer crybabies pissing their pants about nothing again. (Why the fuck does OpenSSH have a DVD CSS implementation ?)

Re:RedHat screwed (1)

sloth jr (88200) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028048)

Way too arrogant of a company for what they do

Oh, I dunno - seems like they contribute quite a lot of value to the Linux kernel, and Satellite server plus kickstart make real differences when managing a few hundred machines. I disagree with a lot of their distribution policies (price definitely being one of them), but I don't mind funding Linux through RedHat (though I feel you're on mark about customers feeling extorted - it's overpriced.)

Listen to Dell but not the community? (1)

jav1231 (539129) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027753)

Users and tech journalists have been pointing this out for the last couple of years. If RH drops their prices they'll look even MORE like M$. Okay, the analogy breaks down in the general sense but M$ did drop prices in other countries when they feared losing market share.

Re:Listen to Dell but not the community? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027778)

A lot of companies drop prices when the competition gets going. It's called business.

Re:Listen to Dell but not the community? (1)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027906)

Only M$ drops prices, no other business has ever competed with a rival before and had a price war.
Red Hat can be so much like M$ its scary!
where is a guinness commercial when you need one? Brilliant!

Re:Listen to Dell but not the community? (1)

mark_lybarger (199098) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027949)

i wouldn't say the analogy breaks down so much. lowering prices to OEM's but gouging the general public who supported the product and got its name recognition to where it is today? only to be sidestepped for a community driven^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hcorporate dictated non-supported desktop distribution?

sure the OEM will be able to generate volume sales. and what percentage of people really use their corporate support? heck, we have a very decent support contract with BEA weblogic, and i've had a ticket open for over a month takes teeth pulling just to get them to pay any lip service to. the only OS support i've seen worth a damn was the VMS support from the DEC engineers. if a VMS machine crashed (rarely) DEC was onsite quickly to diagnose the problem.

red hat has been the M$ of linux distros for quite some time. are they charging per cpu yet? even charging per box gives an incentive to run on big iron as oppose to running on commodody hardware.

Bad (3, Insightful)

tuxter (809927) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027762)

It still looks bad for ANY linux distro to have high pricing. If Linux is evet to get a decent foothold in any market, it has to appear to have both a low TCO and a low initial purchase price. Managers do not look at what it can do, just what it costs. The take up, and major market share has no bearing on stability or operability, we all know that already.

Why not offer alternatives (3, Interesting)

El Cubano (631386) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027773)

They could always add support for something like Debian, which is known for its outstanding stability in spite of its lack of big commercial backing. Dell could then offer graduated support options, including, no support. I'm sure lots of businesses that would jump at the opportunity to get a server with Linux preinstalled (that way they are sure all hardware is working and configured out of the box) even if they have no need of a full support package.

CentOS (2, Informative)

eobanb (823187) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027815)

CentOS is basically just totally free and open version of RedHat Enterprise Linux, and it's really nice. Although there's no one to call if someone goes wrong, it basically offers everything feature-wise that RedHat does. check it out here [caosity.org] .

Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (4, Informative)

ilyanep (823855) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027782)

Isn't RedHat Server cheaper than Windows 2003 Server? And RHS is supposed to compete with Win2k3.

RedHat ES -- $349.99
RedHat WS -- $179.99
Win2k3 -- At least $400 from what I can pick up.

BTW, if Dell doesn't like RedHat, why don't they use something else? People vote with their dollars.

Re:Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027917)

RedHat charges you every year for security updates. Microsoft provides 10 years of free support.

Re:Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027956)

Patches are not support.

Try calling microsoft support. Have your credit card ready.

Re:Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11028005)

The $350 version of RedHat doesn't have phone support either. (Install support only just like Windows)

Re:Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027991)

Microsoft provides 10 years of free support.

Don't confuse support with updates. You get free updates from RedHat too you just have to build them "rpmbuild -ba update-app.spec" If you are so tight for money that alternitive is just fine.

Re:Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027948)

Dell's cheapest server is on special right now, for $309. This is without an OS.

You are right that it is cheaper. I thought there was an annual fee for RHEL, which is where the cost really stabs.

W2k3 Small Business: $499, Premium Edition $1299.
RH: $349 for one year, $799 for three years.

I think they should check out SuSe's enterprise Linux, and they still offer a standard branded distribution too. The sooner they get people away from thinking Red Hat == Linux, the better, in my opinion.

Re:Red Hat -- Prices? Heh. (1)

Epistax (544591) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028044)

BTW, if Dell doesn't like RedHat, why don't they use something else? People vote with their dollars.

Overhead of changing their support (ie training staff)? Loss of respect from previous buyers (If they bought Dells with Red Hat in the past, it'll be easiest to upgrade to Dells with Red Hat in the future). Whatever they've worked for with Red Hat would also be gone. No, you can only "vote with dollars" if you ignore all sense.

On the small scale remember that if I buy Intel and later AMD is cheaper, not only do I need to buy AMD but also a different mobo and possibly a different power supply to make the switch. No, price of a single product is not enough. Dollars don't vote (except in elections).

Hi I'm captain obvious (2, Insightful)

Pros_n_Cons (535669) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027792)

If It's too expensive why is Red Hat doubling their sales every year/quarter, and alternitives like SuSE show little to flat growth?

Yes, It's expensive for me or a 5 worker business, but It is still selling. Isn't it up to Red Hat as to what consumer base they want to sell to?

Re:Hi I'm captain obvious (1)

urbaneassault (233554) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028010)

You could use the same argument for Microsoft, and the argument would still be correct.

Why do they pay for Linux at all? (1, Informative)

koreaman (835838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027817)

Seriously, Linux is GPLed free software!
Paying 3 digit sums per license for free software boggles the mind. I know, I know, you get support. Well, most of us don't need no freakin support contract. Google is our tech support specialist.

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027855)

are you from korea?

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027864)

Maybe when you work in somewhere other than a day care you'll reflect back on the day you posted this abortion of a comment.

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (2, Insightful)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027867)

> Well, most of us don't need no freakin support contract.

you are not the intended market.

For those that do want support, 3 digits is nothing - without support they'd probably end up paying more than that per instance for a third party to come in and fix something...

Besides, I don't think it's the ES and WS versions that are the trouble - they're pretty reasonable, it'd be the AS version that could do with some lowering.
It seems like it's in the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" range, as it's very difficult to impossible to find a price for it on their website.

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (1)

bwalling (195998) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028004)

it'd be the AS version that could do with some lowering. It seems like it's in the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it" range, as it's very difficult to impossible to find a price for it on their website.

It starts at $1499.

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (1)

sloth jr (88200) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028018)

3 digits most certainly is something when you have a few hundred servers (and RedHat's support is a bit lukewarm - I've seen worse, but that's hardly high praise). I don't mind giving RedHat something for their efforts: Satellite is way cool, they continue to add a lot of value to the Linux kernel (check the kernel changelogs some time), and they deserve to be compensated - but 2 digits is a lot more palatable.

sloth jr

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (1)

koreaman (835838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028051)

Don't forget that they can always call per-call support if they're really stuck, and I highly doubt it will add up to that much.

Google+percall when stuck$300/yr

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (1)

emrysk (787256) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027896)

That's why "most of us" download the ISO.

Re:Why do they pay for Linux at all? (1)

MHobbit (830388) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027963)

Insightful. Good job. *I* would if I had broadband... anyone give me 6 bucks a month and I'll get it...

Which RHEL are they complaining about? (1)

pherris (314792) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027819)

Red Hat Enterprise Linux AS, Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES, Red Hat Enterprise Linux WS or Red Hat Desktop? There's a pretty big range here. Assuming they're talking about ES ($350 on up) and WS ($180 on up) IMO it's a good deal since they include fairly decent support (something Dell has forgotten about a long time ago). The prices are still much less than Microsoft's and Novell's offerings.

Ultimately pay the price or start supporting another distro. IMO it seems UserLinux could be a player in a few years if someone dumped some cash into it. It's not like Microsoft, there are other choices.

Re:Which RHEL are they complaining about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027890)

With the volume licensing at my Fortune 25 company we pay EXACTLY THE SAME for Red Hat Enterprise as for Microsoft Windows Server 2003.

Does Dell tell dare to tell Microsoft to lower THEIR prices?

We push Linux internally because it's proven to preform much better!...and we can bypass the entrenched internal MCSE bottleneck brigade. Take THAT to your bogus TCO report, Microsoft.

There is something else going on here (1)

phunster (701222) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027832)

If Dell really wanted a price adjustment from RedHat they would engage them in confidential talks. This sounds more like a prison movie, you know, the one where Dell tells RH to bend over and pick up the soap.

As one earlier poster suggested, Dell has become the WalMart of computer vendors. And in my opinion, that is not a good thing.

Dell should threaten to switch... (1)

jarich (733129) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027842)

They should tell RH that they are going to start switching their customers to Windows! Then RH will drop their prices!

Isn't that what companies do with Microsoft when MS prices are too high? ;)

Could it be the model is broken? (1)

PHanT0 (148738) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027844)

Will the RedHat drop - I mean, is their business plan flawed?

Low-cost RedHat == Fedora or White Box Linux (1)

codergeek42 (792304) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027865)

Um...RedHat's software is all Free (as in Freedom)/Open-Source. In fact, their EULA specifically says (and the GPL and other open-source licenses guarantee) that you can redistribute the source code for their products, so long as you remove their trademarks and logos and whatnot. In fact, this is what White Box Enterprise Linux [whiteboxlinux.org] aims to do: be binary compatible with RH EL by rebuilding and distributing RH's source RPMs. Or you can always check out The Fedora Project [redhat.com] ...

Agree (5, Insightful)

mjmartin_uk (776702) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027866)

I completely agree with Dell's views on RHEL's overpricing. I bought a Dell PowerEdge server for a small business back in August but Red Hat's Enterprise Linux was overpriced and we felt uncomfortable buying a subscription at the rates we were offered from Dell. Instead I recommend we choose Suse's offereing which was a far more viable option for the company. I can see why Dell went for Novell a month or two back. Let's not beat about the bush though, it could be construed that Dell spoke to Novell so they are now in a better bargainig position with Red Hat.

They could be lower but not by much (1)

bird603568 (808629) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027876)

they could if they gave you an option of no os and installed your own linux youself. or even bsd

This is a no brainer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027880)

Just look at this $300 rock bottom server from Dell [dell.com] . Three years of Linux costs $800, over twice the cost of the box! I can buy Windows XP Home and run Apache on it for half that cost, and I get free security updates for life. Basically, Linux needs to compete on the bottom line. The problem is probably too many high paid developers.

Re:This is a no brainer (1, Informative)

eggsome (660932) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027966)

XP Home only allows 10 concurrent connections, not counting all the other bad stuff related to running MS as a server.

$%&#*, more outsourcing (1)

bradleyland (798918) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027918)

Does this mean RH will be outsourcing their support to India as well?

Dell should put their money where their mouth is (1)

Eric Smith (4379) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027921)

If Dell were to contract with Red Hat for 5000 licenses to be resold to Dell customers, I'm sure Red Hat would be happy to offer them a better price.

But otherwise their statement is just so much empty posturing, not unlike how Microsoft says that hardware should be free (as in free beer).

Re:Dell should put their money where their mouth i (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027971)

Why would RedHat do this? Volume discounts to one customer make sense because the support loads will be much smaller. But with 5000 different customers, RedHat would be fucked.

What RedHat really needs to do is somehow differeniate between "Enterprise" and small business customers. Problem is that it's hard to do with open source software because it's simply not designed for hardcoded limits.

Dell as a retailer (1)

happyemoticon (543015) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027924)

Maybe they just want RedHat to charge an easy per-unit price. Doesn't RedHat charge companies primarily for support subscriptions, based on the number of incidents? I know Microsoft charges up front by the number of processors that its operating system is running on, in addition to the support incidents.

Dell likes to sell users the whole enchilada: hardware, software, and support, as one tightly integrated package, which works better with the MS model from a pricing perspective. If they were reselling the support pacakge, they would have to track companies more closely, which makes sales a bitch.

And RedHat is kind of pricy. However, if I were firing ideas to The Boss, I'd probably mention RedHat or Solaris, the latter only because my employer's server guys have a Sun fetish.

Whitebox Linux (4, Informative)

cluge (114877) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027932)

The price is too high, that is why some of us have been using White Box Linux [whiteboxlinux.org] for some time. It's 100% binarily compatible with RH, and it works.

From the above linked website "This product is derived from the Free/Open Source Software made available by Red Hat, Inc but IS NOT produced, maintained or supported by Red Hat. Specifically, this product is forked from the source code for Red Hat's _Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3_ product under the terms and conditions of it's EULA."

So far - and 10's of servers later - no complaints, works like a charm. Since it works so well. Why pay? For their support? Lets be honest, we generally find the bugs before RH does, and our staff can handle anything - including figuring out the undocumented changes that RH makes to their own products (example: static routes anyone?).

cluge

Try CentOS (2)

kstumpf (218897) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027936)

RHEL was definitely far out of our price range, especially since we have absolutely no use for the support that we would be paying for. We ended up going with CentOS on our fourteen Dell servers that run everything for somethingawful.com [somethingawful.com] .

CentOS is a community-supported build of the RHEL source RPMS. They closely follow RedHat errata and release updated packages shortly after the official RedHat packages appear. We've used it for over six months now and it's been great. It's perfectly stable, and it's easy to rollout updates via a local yum repository that rsyncs off the CentOS mirrors.

Try CentOS or WhiteBox!!!

CentOS
http://www.caosity.org/ [caosity.org]

WhiteBox Linux
http://www.whiteboxlinux.org/ [whiteboxlinux.org]

Unlikely, Red Hat is on a roll (0)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027960)

Red Hat doesn't seem to be having any problems attracting and keeping customers. Its price point is well within the range of customers who need serious support.

I think its understood that RHEL is a premium distro with service behind the name...Red Hat will change its pricing when the market fails to respond to it product and services. Maybe Novell can bring the necessary competition to bear...or maybe they will try to support the same high price points and margins.

Geeks Unite! (1)

eamonman (567383) | more than 9 years ago | (#11027961)

If Dell is successful, then any one 'entity' should be able to demand that X should be cheaper.

If we band together, we can demand the following to lower in price (in no particular order):

4GB USB Flash Drives
Any Adobe Product
3CCD Video cameras
Plasma TVs
Viper RT-10s
Diamond Rings
The Stupid Housing Market in LA

That would help us (or me) a bit. Thanks!

wallmartisms and nazi pricing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027973)

someone look up a term called restraint of market

oh my GOD! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11027984)

I'm sorry, but Dell sucks. Their "award winning support" is gone, which I find funny it won awards anyway. Their pricing is so friggin over-board it's not even funny. I can actually outprice damn near every server they have and you won't have to worry about it failing on you (near as much since nothing is 100%) like they do since I actually test everything before it goes out.

If Dell was actually concerned about the pricing for small and medium businesses, they might, just MIGHT consider using something other than RedHat. Since there are better distros out there anyway. But then what can you expect from a company that's so far up MS's bum that you can barely see a toe and is completely unfamiliar with linux to the point that they can barely install it, let alone configure it.

Dell MYOB (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028015)

It's called what the market will bear. Red Hat sets their prices based on their best guess about the value of their product in relation to how many people are willing to buy it at any given price point. If they're charging too much ... hey, this isn't Windows, people -- there's competition in the Linux marketplace, and someone else will step in to fill what Dell perceives to be an unfilled market for a "value" enterprise Linux.

Obvious answer (1)

dtfinch (661405) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028054)

Duh.

Solaris 10 x86 throws a spanner at RH EL4 (1)

sjhwilkes (202568) | more than 9 years ago | (#11028057)

I run a small hosting company (about 100 servers) and we're currently running alot of RedHat 9. We've been testing Fedora core 3, RH EL, Solaris 10, Suse 9.1, Gentoo, CentOS, you name it.
So far Fedora is winning out, with maybe Solaris for some applications where we need to run commercial software (oracle 10g). RH EL is way too expensive, particularly in SMP versions, it's not just Windows 2K3 they're competing with and they need to address that somehow.
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