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Limitations in Current Breed of Palm Handhelds?

Cliff posted more than 9 years ago | from the search-for-improved-functionality dept.

Handhelds 329

JabrTheHut asks: "Having been a Palm user for over two years now, I've upgraded to a Tungsten T3. While the features I'm used to using have not changed, I have become increasingly frustrated by what I see as a lack of progress. It doesn't seem to want to deal with text files (there is no import feature for the Palm Desktop notepad or memo pad, for example). Also there seems to be no way to copy arbitrary files to the Palm - all files must be "owned" by an application. With a 256MB SD card I expected to use it to copy files between work and home. Has anyone else noticed these or other shortcomings and have figured out ways around them?"

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Workaround (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067642)

Buy a laptop.

But, seriously, find/write an application that copies files and "owns" them.

Re:Workaround (1)

Skuld-Chan (302449) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067661)

Or buy a PocketPC as they can do this easily - even if there is no default association for the data.

Re:Workaround (3, Interesting)

antarctican (301636) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067895)

Oh buy a Zaurus.... if they weren't discontinued.

I bought one of the last ones on Amazon about two weeks ago, and I have yet to unlock all of it's potential.

All I do if find a wifi spot, and I ssh into my box, reconnect to screen, and I'm reading my mail in pine. What could be cooler?

It's a little on the bulky side, but the screen... I have never seen such a fantastic screen. I have yet to find a website I can't read using Opera, which comes with it.

And transfering files around, scp anyone? Pulling files back and forth couldn't be easier.

It's just a shame this device was discontinued in North America, it truly is a micro-laptop as some have described it.

Re:Workaround (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067689)

yes, buy a laptop. I have owned a Newton 110, Philips Velo 500 and a Handspring Prism. They all were useless for anything more complex than an address book.

Re:Workaround (2, Interesting)

eclectro (227083) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067798)

But, seriously, find/write an application that copies files and "owns" them

That may be more easy said than done. Sony engineered the "Secure Digital" to prevent the wanton shuffling of bits around.

While it has been awhile, when I was reviewing this when it first came out I thought that it was pretty draconian DRM. And as you can see, it is accomplishing what it is supposed to do.

"Secure Digital" is code words for "Stopping the stupid consumer from doing something we don't want him to do."

I suppose it could be broken (calling Jon Johanssen) but there comes a point where you start wondering if is worth the trouble and instead realize that the larger issues of broken copyright law is what needs addressing.

Re:Workaround (1)

twalk (551836) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067842)

For several years now I've tried to use PDAs (both Palm & PPC) to do some laptop level work. It mostly ends up in failure. Then I bought a super small Fujitsu P1120, and I've never been happier.

Re:Workaround (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067861)

Don't blame PDA technology because you went about this bass-ackwards dumbshit. If you'd done this properly, you'd looked around to see what other software/hardware others in your profession were using and copied them. In my industry, most of the software apps are Palm-based and so I purchased an appropriate device. This was a Handspring Visor about 6 or so years ago and I've been happy since then as my industry continues to use the Palm platform. I would have preferred Pocket PC to be more compatible with my desktop, but the portable apps were more important.

Re:Workaround (2, Interesting)

twalk (551836) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067947)

Was the insult really necessary? Or are you just a 3 year old?

I currently own and use for development work 5 Palms (visor, TE, treo 90, 2 T3s) and 2 PPCs (axim X5 & x50v). To be blunt, I do development work on PDA programs, and I find it hard to get good use out of these devices. I expect that most people get even less use of them than I do.

Anyway, PDAs working as laptop replacements will have a short lifetime. In 2-3 years you'll see a 6oz, PDA sized PC running XP. Who'd want a PDA then?

Transferring Files (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067645)

You could always write your own application that owns whatever files you want. I think it's possible in Java with J2ME.

Spelling! (-1, Troll)

ottergoose (770022) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067650)

It should be the current bread of PDA's.


Re:Spelling! (1)

Bin_jammin (684517) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067696)

I think you mean bred of PDA's.

Re:Spelling! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067748)


Re:Spelling! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067870)

I'd score this as funny, expcept one has to wonder if he/she really knew the right word was, "breed" in this context. That's one problem with humor on this site, some folks are funny in their stupidity and others aren't funny when they're trying to be.

PPC (2, Funny)

io333 (574963) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067651)

Pocket PC.

Go ahead. MOD me down I don't care.

You Know I am Right!

Re:PPC (1)

Poltras (680608) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067939)

As for an answer to parent, someone told me once that Pocket PC were for people wanting to look cool with neat features they use once in a year and pay the price for it, Palm people were those who wanted to work efficiently without the burden of eyecandies. I still think after all these years that he was right. Same war as Windows vs *X.

Back to topic, there are a lot of programs out there that let you copy to your SD as if it were a disk on your computer (removable drive or simple usbfs)... I don't know if there is one for Tungsten, but I don't see why there wouldn't be.

And for the own thing, you are right and wrong: applications have to own this on the Palm FS (because of the inherent structure of the file system), but things are otherwise on the SD. Not all applications (and that's a shame) will see to the SD though... and back to the original problem.

Go shop at www.palmsource.com [palmsource.com], I'm sure there is what you seek. In fact, there is everything one may need with a palm there.

Work arounds for most things (4, Informative)

laing (303349) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067655)

The Palm desktop application sucks. You can work around some of the issues you mentioned though. Moving text files is pretty straightforward if you just copy and past the content. There are file size limitations though. A better way is to write to your SD card directly, and use (on the palm) an application (like FileZ or UniCMD) to access it.

Re:Work arounds for most things (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067974)

Yes - and more precisely, the HotSync application is no good. There is plenty of innovation on the hardware side but the HotSync application stays stagnant.

It doesn't even support some of the most important Windows logo requirements, namely supporting multiple users, running properly without Administrative privileges, not storing data in the "Program Files" folder, etc... These have been around since Windows 2000...!

From what I can tell, the application has *never* been significantly updated and is the root of your problem.

You should be able to add arbitrary files (4, Informative)

DJStealth (103231) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067664)

In Palm Quick Install.. Click on "Add" then select files of type "All Files (*.*)".

Alternatively, get a SD card drive, its faster :)

Documents 2 Go can handle text files, alternatively, you can use the Palm Desktop to copy/paste things into memopad.

There are various shareware/freeware utils that act as very basic file managers for the palm, with hexedit capabilities. (They can also be used to edit/delete your preference files - which can come in useful)

Exactly why I have not upgraded... (0, Offtopic)

adamjaskie (310474) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067665)

My IBM Workpad C3 (rebranded Palm Vx) does everything I need in a PDA. Calender, address book, to-do list, note pad, minesweeper clone and patience. Anything more than those basic functions is just added fluff that I do not need.

Re:Exactly why I have not upgraded... (3, Interesting)

fm6 (162816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067884)

Keeping text files in your Palm makes perfect sense. It's great to always have reading matter in your pocket. And the Vx supports this perfectly well, though not out of the box. You simply convert [iconv.com] the file to DOC, download it, and read it with a suitable reader [32768.com].

I agree with you on one point: the Vx was absolutely the high point of Palm development. It had enough memory and processing power for any practical palmtop app (if you needed more you should probably be using a laptop anyway). And the battery lasted for days, even under heavy usage.

The Vx has one major flaw -- the up button sticks out too far, so the cover presses against it when it's in your pocket. This is severely uncool, since all the function buttons double as power buttons. Fortunately, a hack with the (self-explanatory) name of StayOffIfUp provides a reasonable workaround.

I'd still be using my Vx if I hadn't lost it. Should have tried to find a used one. Instead, I "upgraded" to the m515. Which has a bunch of new features I either never use or positively hate. The color hirez display looks cool, but usually needs backlighting to be readable -- which is a terrible battery drain. And they had to go and change all the physical parameters, so all the third-party styluses and covers for V series don't fit. And all the function buttons stick out too far!

Shortcomings. (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067668)

Has anyone else noticed these or other shortcomings and have figured out ways around them?


(disclaimer: I work for palm.)

Gateway software (4, Informative)

murgee (615127) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067677)

Some Palms (and Palmish devices.. I have a Sony Clie) come with a gateway-type program you can use to put random files on the memory card. If yours doesn't have one built in, you may be able to find a third-party one.

because handhelds/palm are dead (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067678)

this is the new PDA [sonyericsson.com], unless Palm try harder (and not silly branding initiatives) they will be marginalized even further, palm are already considered last and if they dont buck their ideas up they are history left in the dust of the giants which would be a shame

Re:because handhelds/palm are dead (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067767)

Actually the new PDA is going to be something like this http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3403.html

or http://www.msmobiles.com/news.php/3397.html

Why would anyone develop for Symbian based phones when they can leverage their Win32/.NET knowledge on a Microsoft platform?

Why not a laptop? (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067679)

There are many shortcomings with PDAs. Three years ago, I looked into getting one, but found too many limitations. Sure, they are small, and fairly easy to carry. The newer ones even let you do Bluetooth and WiFi.

I wanted a keyboard, so back then I would have to purchase an external one. So much for small and compact. I would then be carrying around the PDA, and then a keyboard. No thanks.

I decided on an iBook 14" at the time. Just this year, I upgraded to a Powerbook 15". I bring it everywhere. Sure, it is much heavier than a PDA, but I have all my music on there, all my photos, I bring it to meetings at work and training sessions, and take notes.

No more pen and paper. No limitations. Of course, it doesn't have to be Apple equipment. Just a laptop that is relatively light enough to carry around everywhere.

Need to check mail in the car? Get the Powerbook out, search a hotspot using MacStumbler in just about any residential area, and free internet access!

No wonder Sony is getting otu of the PDA market. Too many limitations.

Re:Why not a laptop? (1)

Wedge1212 (591767) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067735)

I agree. I bought a Toshiba e755 PocketPC two years ago. It was nice to carry around. wifi always made the other nerds jelous. However, it had its short comings. I didnt get a keyboard so typing was kinda slow. Secondly, when browsing the internet it becomes quite annoying to be constantly scrolling across the screen just to read a forum which may or may not have been rendered properly in the web browser. The solution to these problems? Just get a laptop. I spent around 1,000 bucks to get a a Dell which I have found to be far more effective in my day to day activities than a PDA could ever be. I bought an Inspiron 1100. I didnt need the laptop to be the best rig under the sun because I have three desktops that were fairly powerful. PDA's are just making less and less sense to me too.

Re:Why not a laptop? (1)

m0rningstar (301842) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067772)

Why not a laptop? I think it boils down to 'what do you actually want/need/use'.

I use a laptop and a PDA for very different things. Any PDA has to have a few relatively vital features, the largest one of which is form factor (I want something that, with a hard case, I can carry in a pocket all the time) and the second is battery life. Lastly, I want to be able to get to the data fast -- no long bootup time.

There's a crossover between the PDA and the laptop in a lot of places, and if I want something with a large screen, etc, then sure -- I'll use a laptop. But I also want something that will be there wherever I am for general stuff -- note taking, calendar and address book (I actually like keeping the address book separate from the phone, since then I dial the phone numbers and eventually remember them). And some basic timewaster games for airport lounges and so on. So it has to fit in a pocket, easily.

Re:Why not a laptop? (1)

mikapc (664262) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067800)

Also as a user of a sony clie sj320 for over a year now I can say that it's much easier to not lose a pda than laptop if you happen to be a person who carries a laptop around everywhere. I guess it's all about what portable services you need. My pda has served me very well for calender, contacts, memos, dictionary, as well as map software that I can use to hook up to a gps device while I'm driving. The battery life is great where I can go for over a week without recharging, I don't have long boot up times etc. With a 128 meg memory stick I can also store all the documents I want using quickword if I really wanted to, which I don't. For games, internet, writing papers etc my desktop works fine for me. I see no need for a laptop.

Re:Why not a laptop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067794)

Because laptops don't fit in your shirt pocket.

Granted, most of today's flashy color PDAs won't fit nicely into a shirt pocket either--but that's why I still use a Palm Vx.

I wish Palm would come out with a very light-weight PDA that is about the same size as Palm V (or smaller). Something that'll fit in a shirt pocket without making it droop or making us look like a geek.

I know I won't be the only to buy it.

Re:Why not a laptop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067795)

If the point of a PDA is to keep your schedule, contacts, notes, and to-do list at hand, then PalmOS PDAs are the best there are.

On the other hand, if the point of a PDA is to be a small computer, for running arbitrary code and storing arbitrary information, then PalmOS PDAs are generally inferior.

Since slashdot readers tend to be a bit nerdy, they naturally think of a PDA as a small computer. (Hence the mindset of this story's author.) But if a PDA is a small computer, then it competes with laptops in a weird way.

Like you say, if a laptop is available to you, there's not much point in doing ssh or even most web browsing on a tiny PDA. The laptop is so much better at those things.

Or, put another way: it makes sense to whip out a PDA during a conversation to check your schedule. But almost no one whips out a PDA during a conversation to start up ssh.

Re:Why not a laptop? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067891)

Lol, only geeks feel comfortable with a 12" laptop hooked to their belt or in their suit pocket. PDA's can be very useful depending on your industry/use.

That's why I ditched PalmOS. (0, Troll)

eaglej (552473) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067685)

Pocket PC has its own annoyances, but amazingly, it's one Microsoft product that does less arbitrary intervention on the user's behalf than the competition. Better yet, many ipaq's can be flashed with linux, and the Sharp handhelds, which are unfortunately no longer being sold in the US, run linux out of the box. As for the file transfer on an SD card thing, just get a cheap USB2 SD reader/writer. Way faster than transferring using the palm, and only like $10. There are a couple software products for PalmOS that will let you transfer files directly, or use it as a card reader for the SD card. I think FileZ is one of them, but there are others.

Install files to card (4, Informative)

ahecht (567934) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067694)

You can install anything to a SD card by selecting "Install to Card". Alternatively, you can install anything to ram using a program such as RAMDisk. Palm uses a very efficient database file system, and they don't want it cluttered up with your MP3 files (just look at the problems they had with the T5 when they tried to allow any files to be stored in RAM).

Re:Install files to card (1)

GISGEOLOGYGEEK (708023) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067851)

.... they dont want it cluttered up with your mp3 files.

dumbass, you havent seen the latest TV commercials where they specifically state 'you may just want to listen to mp3s on it'

Restricting the user from doing simple basic file transfers easily is not justified by any level of 'efficiency' in the database system ... it just exposes their shortcomings.

My company builds pocket pc applications for collecting geotechnical data in the field, which is then automatically synch'ed into an SQL server database for instant use in various geotechnical analysis softwares .... I can't imagine the horrible pain our engineers would be going through if they were held back by the limitations of using Palm.

The MS haters here must simply hate the idea of being productive. MS has done just fine on this product.

no bash shell (1)

argoff (142580) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067699)

seriously, give me that, ssh, and an internet connnection and people (I) would start doing all sorts of cool things with the palm. (putting a small gcc compiler and perl on there wouldn't hurt either)

Re:no bash shell (2, Funny)

JPriest (547211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067720)

Because we all know the CLI is faster, even when you don't have a keyboard.

Re:no bash shell (3, Funny)

roalt (534265) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067816)

Because we all know the CLI is faster, even when you don't have a keyboard.

I have an official Palm Keyboard, but it's useless with vi because it lacks the ESCape key...

Re:no bash shell (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067747)

You mean, like the ssh palm application:


Re:no bash shell (2, Informative)

Mr. Slippery (47854) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067849)

give me that, ssh, and an internet connnection and people (I) would start doing all sorts of cool things with the palm.

Get an iPaq, install Familiar [handhelds.org]. Or get a Zaurus.

Re:no bash shell (1)

hoover (3292) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067875)

the Zaurus rocks! It takes a while to get used to, but basically as soon as you have network connectivity up you can ssh into the Zaurus and do all kinds of neat things with it.

The only thing I am missing is a good Mahjonng thingy, but apart from that it's a full blown Linux workstation... in your pocket ;-)

Re:no bash shell (1)

WJMoore (830419) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067889)

Well that's been done. The Sharp Zaurus's run Linux and have a terminal with bash etc.

Re:no bash shell (1)

Greyfox (87712) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067919)

It's been a while since I looked but I seem to recall that cross compiling palm apps on your PC is pretty well documented. You can even get an emulator so you don't have to risk trashing your PDA in the testing phase.

Personally, this [lispme.de] and the latest crop of portable bluetooth wireless keyboards has me considering buying a new PDA again. I haven't carried one since my old Palm V died.

Working with Palm files (2, Interesting)

pongo000 (97357) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067700)

Most Palms seem to go to great lengths to hide details of the filesystem from the user. The workaround I've found is to simply store all user data on the removable flash memory, plug it into my flash memory reader and access it that way. I don't have a T3, but I'm able to work with the filesystem directly on several of the m-series Palms.

I agree, there seems to be very little forward movement in significant functionality in the Palm world. Can I be so bold to suggest that this lack of innovation might be due to the lack fo significant competition for Palm?

Re:Working with Palm files (3, Insightful)

pherthyl (445706) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067743)

>>Can I be so bold to suggest that this lack of innovation might be due to the lack fo significant competition for Palm?

Ever heard of PocketPC?

Re:Working with Palm files (4, Funny)

roalt (534265) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067828)

>>Can I be so bold to suggest that this lack of innovation might be due to the lack fo significant competition for Palm?

>Ever heard of PocketPC?

Can I be so bold to suggest that this lack of innovation might be due to the lack fo significant competition for Palm!

Re:Working with Palm files (1)

Shippy (123643) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067825)

I agree, there seems to be very little forward movement in significant functionality in the Palm world. Can I be so bold to suggest that this lack of innovation might be due to the lack fo significant competition for Palm?

Actually, the Pocket PC [pocketpc.com] is now the dominant PDA OS [slashdot.org] on the market. I think it's because Microsoft has a genuinely better product here. I have a Dell Axim and an Audiovox SMT5600 Smartphone. They both operate great and I can copy any file I want over to them from the desktop. I wish my phone could look at word/excel docs like the Axim can, but you can still buy 3rd-party programs that do that.

What's also really great for developers is that the Mobile Application SDK [microsoft.com] allows you to build one application that will run on both the PDA and Smartphone pretty darn easily.

Re:Working with Palm files (2, Insightful)

twalk (551836) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067871)

"Actually, the Pocket PC is now the dominant PDA OS on the market."

Unfortunately, those numbers came from Gartner, which has an extremely well know MS bias. So in order to get the results they wanted, they left out the 1M+ treos that were sold. (While at the same time including RIM...)

Market dominance and potential for growth (1)

rjamestaylor (117847) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067908)

Fortunately the market is so small compared to the potential number of users that any "market leader" today pales in comparison to the potential.

It's a quite different struggle than the desktop/laptop market.

Re:Working with Palm files (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067877)

I agree, there seems to be very little forward movement in significant functionality in the Palm world. Can I be so bold to suggest that this lack of innovation might be due to the lack fo significant competition for Palm?

I'm not sure about the lack of significant competition. When I go to computer stores I primarily see PocketPC machines.

one useless item (1)

harryoyster (814652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067703)

They are great for using in a support environment as you can keep server passwords (not ips) etc in them and use them for the datacentres when you goto servers that your not always using. Sync the passwords from the db then go and work on it... works in a secure environment very well.

Palm OS (2, Insightful)

Dorsai65 (804760) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067706)

I have a Tungsten/E, up from a Palm IIIe that I had for years. The only workarounds I've ever been able to come up with have been to do the old cut/paste for plain text, and to find an app that I can set to 'own' arbitrary files.

That recent flap about Palm using the FAT for SD suggests they're trying to do something, but they obviously still need to work on it.

Yes, it does pretty much suck. If Palm doesn't get their thumb out, I'm going to have to start looking for something else. If somebody comes up with a way to burn Linux to the flash, I'd be real happy!

How about "Linux" as in the Sharp line of PDA's? (2)

joecamelman123 (839675) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067711)

I currently use a Sharp Sl-5600 PDA. I love the little guy. It has an SD memory slot AND a CF slot. I have a 512 Mb SD card for all my files. Straight out of the box there was applications to read Word files and Excel files, as well as a decent text editor. I too had the problem you described with the ability to read and transport files. Plus the capability to do just about anything with a cf card is a huge plus. Just my humble opinion.

This pretty much defines Palm (2, Insightful)

michaelas (588213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067712)

I have been a palm user since the Palm III. They definitely defined the palm top and made it popular (with some help from the Newton, et al).

Now with Sony ditching their palm based products, we see how truly uninnovative Palm is. Sony had some of the best designs, including swivel displays, camera's, keyboards, WiFi, etc. Palm pretty much had the same old design, sometimes adding a feature here or there. After all, there is a palm that has a camera, but only that one unit. Some could play MP3's, but the business ones didn't have stereo sound. Retarded.

Unless palm can innovate, and quickly, the exodus will only continue. With Handspring and Sony gone it's pretty much up to them, and I don't see it happening. Even the owners of Handspring left Palm because they didn't like the direction it was going.

And now we have the Treo, thanks to them. Palm gets a hold of it and can't even put WiFi in it. Is that too much to ask? But to their credit it is probably the most feature rich Palm available.

For my next PDA I am seriously looking at a Dell. Cheap, and just about every feature you could want. VGA display, WiFi, Bluetooth, Compact Flash, etc. And these features are all in the same unit. What could I possibly buy from Palm that has all that? ...Michael...

Palm is sooo far behind (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067717)

The PocketPC is much more advanced in all areas. Microsoft took a while, but the new fifth generation of PocketPC devices are much further along than any other handheld device. They have excellent screens, wireless capability, sync, integrated with Windows, Outlook and Office. Go to a store and (with an open mind) play with a Palm device and a PocketPC device.

If you own Palm or any such related stocks I would recommend you sell. They cannot compete, because Microsoft has their act together on this one.

Palm is a dieing breed (-1, Troll)

fzammett (255288) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067719)

Seriously, it is. Even the worst PocketPC is far more functional, and they are quite stable and reliable.

And that doesn't even mention Linux-based devices, which really haven't taken hold yet. I think it's just a matter of time before they do, although there needs to be a good shell around it. I thought the Zaurus was a good start, but (a) they just aren't big in the states, and (b) they aren't up to snuff yet.

Simply put, a PocketPC is what you want, well, in your pocket, these days. Palm used to be king, but it's stagnated, and even in it's heydey it was difficult to write applications for, so even though you saw a lot available, 98% of it was crap (and still is). Sure, there's plenty of crap for PocketPC's as well, but there's a higher percentage of actually useful software.

Forget Palm. History will do the same, soon enough.

Re:Palm is a dieing breed (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067751)

The other thing I would like to add is that creating apps for the PocketPC is soo much easier if you already understand Windows programming. The Desktop and PocketPC and Smartphone environments are now unified with Visual Studio 2003 and higher. The API is consistent. There is C# and .NET and VB.NET support.

If you were a corporate developer, even assuming the capabilities of the underlying OS are equal, why wouldn't you leverage your Windows programming knowledge, instead of learning another environment (palm OS API + palm tools)?

This is why Microsoft will win in all areas eventually. They offer a unified API over many devices.

Card Export (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067723)

Don't know about the other ones mentioned as I haven't used them, but Softick Card Export [softick.com] makes the Palm into a USB mass storage device, when used with an SD card. Makes it easy for file transfer, and you don't need drivers installed on the target PC.

The long-term solution: BEOS... (1)

Chordonblue (585047) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067733)

Where the hell is it? Palm bought it years ago and presumably hasn't sat on it. So where IS IT?

It reminds me of how many delays the Mac OS went through before they finally got pre-emptive multitasking in the form of OSX.

I assume that many of Palm's limitations will be solved when this OS happens. IF it happens, that is...

Easy solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067736)

Mount the media directly under linux or bsd.
It's just an msdos vfat file system. Copy whatever
you want onto the media. The palm will not
recognize them or touch them, but it won't
overwrite them either. You can the copy
to and from work.

I do the same using memory sticks (1G size,
and soon up to 4G, and 32G theoretical max),
using a clie.

The problem is not the palm (though the hardware
innovation has slowed... they need better
power savings). The problem is with the
desktop app. Ditch it in favor of some
custom scripts, based on stuff like pilotlink.
Learn a little perl or bash, and it's easy.
Don't wait for the stupid fucking gnone app
to wrap a lame cmdline tool. Just make your

The alternative... (1)

Vvornth (828734) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067741)

Even my iPod can import and read text files without a fuss, and I can listen to Radiohead and look good while reading them too!

Card reader! (1)

lostmymirth (784364) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067749)

If you must have a free solution, a FileZ-like software will do the file transfer job, but you can buy a couple of card readers for ~$50. The card readers will be way faster than a hot sync. As for notes, they do sync to Plam Desktop, but if you mean MS Outlook then most palms come with PocketMirror which syncs the palm to MS Office including Notes / Memo Pad.

if only Apple would buy them... (2, Interesting)

rich42 (633659) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067757)

I used to have a Palm V - I used it all the time because it worked great for keeping my todo list.

Then I was purchased a Dell Axim as a gift. It did all sorts of stuff my Palm couldn't - video, sound, etc.

But it did a crappy job handling my todo list. So I stopped using it.

Palm got a lot of stuff right off the bat - and they don't seem real eager to mess with success.

A lot of the major updates to the OS have really been focused around hardware support as opposed to new features. It took forever for the first MP3 playing palm to come out..

stuff like this has cost them a lot of sales to Windows CE (or Pocket PC or whatever they call it now).

If only Apple would buy them...

Antiprogress (1)

TheWordOfB (696275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067758)

I have a Palm Vx (old school now). And it can import memopad and notepad stuff into it and out of. I used to keep all my classnotes on it before i got a laptop. I think they keep rehashing the same hardware. I mean, do they still use that 24mhz processor.. (mine's 16). Basically all you do is buy a prettier screen each time.

PDF Support (2)

phycoman (650749) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067760)

The greatest limitation I have found is that except for PixelViewer (which only comes with Sony Clie's), no application has native PDF support. Adobe's reader must first translate the file to another format for the palm to read. This is a minor annoyance because since I have a Tungsten C, with WiFi access, I still cannot get school files to my Palm straight off of the internet.

Linux (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067761)

Fortunately, future Palm OS releases will be built on Linux. Even if the fine corporation does not build in all the features you would like to have, it shouldn't be too hard to hack them in. And with all the geeks loving handhelds, Linux, and features, it will be done.

Palm Tablet? (2, Interesting)

xtermin8 (719661) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067769)

Wouldn't a full strength "tablet" PC be a nice addition to the Palm lineup? Of course M$ would never let this happen, but it would be good to have more choices for full-sized touch-screen computers.

Have you noticed the shortcomings? (1)

vsilves (243250) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067773)

Yes we have!

We use Tungstens at work and, in spite of their equal or superior hardware (i.e., more screen real state), fuctionality-wise software blows. I end up using my privately owned iPaq 4150 for work purposes. Mostly, carrying around lots of technical references in html format, stored on a 1G SD card.

I do not like Microsoft or HP a lot having been burnt by them in the past. But the Palm UI and default software bundle is "retard." I owned an old Palm with 512K and "at the time" was kind of cool, but I see that they have done nothing in terms of improving the platform. All they did is adding color, storage capacity, cpu frequency, and bundle disparate software that does not interoperate seamlessly.

Re:Have you noticed the shortcomings? (1)

Jungle guy (567570) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067927)

You use a Pocket PC to read HTML files? Grab Plucker (Google for that) and PDA Converter (www.jakewalk.de), and you will be able to store HTML files on your Palm.

You could also use isilo (www.isilo.com) and isolx (www.isilo.com), but they are not free (as in beer).

Palm does what you complain it wont... (4, Informative)

Jhon (241832) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067784)

It doesn't seem to want to deal with text files (there is no import feature for the Palm Desktop notepad or memo pad, for example).
Check out your hotsync settings.

File Link|Create New Link|Application (Memopad) | File Path (Select your file -- even a .TXT file).

It will sync the file to the palm EVERY time you sync. Works great.

You can EASILY install ANY file to ANY palm with an SD card using either a USB card reader OR install-to-card on the palm quickinstall menu.

This doesn't even begin to address 3rd party solutions available, too. I have a LOT of problems with palm -- but what you are complaining about isn't a weakness in palm, but a weakness in your knowledge of how to USE a palm.

My current palm is a Zire 72 -- and I'm quite happy with it. Aside from the paint peeling off (DUH PALM!), it's VERY stable. My few work-mates who have PPCs crash almost daily.

Re:Palm does what you complain it wont... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067914)

I agree with poster. I've used a Handspring Visor for 6 years. It took a couple months to find the right applications but I continue to use it and the apps daily. It's portable and does absolutely everything I need it to. PocketPC's weren't established back then with the needed software, so this has been perfect. Text files are easy to upload/download. I for one don't want my PDA to be a telephone, MP3 player, etc (though my phone and PDA easily exchange phone lists).

pilot-link CVS version (4, Informative)

turgid (580780) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067785)

I recently upgraded from a Palm m100 to a Tungsten T3. I'm a Linux user at home, and I also found this sort of thing frustrating.

I eventually found out from talking to the developers that version 0.12.0, currently in CVS, supports the uploading of arbitrary files to the memory card on the palm.

I downloaded 0.12.0-rc4 from CVS and it compiled cleanly. There's a new option to pilot-xfer, -D, to install arbitrary files to the filesystem on the memory card.

This worked perfectly, but I found it a bit slow for transferring lots of MP3 files, so I bought a cheap USB2 card readed, which I can mount like a drive, and use cp to copy the files across. The card readed only cost UKP9.95+VAT and is really worh it for convenience and ease of use.

Not entirely true (1)

ppp (218671) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067807)

While you are limited as to what you can store in a Palm OS5 handheld's memory, you can put at least a few file types on the SD card without any of them being "owned" by an application. For example, you can copy the following file types, each of which can then be used by at least one Palm OS5 application without any sort of desktop conversion: JPEG and GIF, MP3 and several other music formats, including Ogg, MPEG (supported codecs are limited but growing in number, .doc (MS Word), .xls (MS Excel). There may be a few other as well.

Microsoft Windows is the problem, not the devices. (2, Informative)

hacker (14635) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067817)

"It doesn't seem to want to deal with text files (there is no import feature for the Palm Desktop notepad or memo pad, for example)."

You mean 'in Windows'. In the Linux and UNIX world, there are dozens of choices in how you want to talk to your Palm.

For "text files", nothing beats Plucker [nyud.net] when carrying text, ebooks, manuals, HTML pages, HOWTO documents, and other items. The LDP even carries all of their HOWTO documents [tldp.org] in Plucker format. Its the only format that is freely available, openly documented, and very extensible.

Just look at how beautiful [nyud.net] Plucker is with the PHP documentation [php.net] as one example...

"Also there seems to be no way to copy arbitrary files to the Palm - all files must be "owned" by an application. With a 256MB SD card I expected to use it to copy files between work and home."

You must mean '...in Windows' again. In the non-Windows side, including OSX, we have pilot-link [nyud.net] which talks natively to your Palm and can do all kinds of things that the Windows tools cannot (including operating at 40% faster in some cases).

Commercial companies such as MarkSpace [markspace.com] are using pilot-link (the core library of pilot-link anyway) in their commercial product, MissingSync [markspace.com] which runs on OSX.

For desktop replacements, PIMs, and other tools, there are dozens of alternatives. Here are several, in no particular order (with Coralized [nyu.edu] links to protect the bandwidth of the various projects):

There are many others, but these are the top contenders. They all also rely on the libraries and language bindings provided by pilot-link to communicate with your Palm device.

"Has anyone else noticed these or other shortcomings and have figured out ways around them?"

Yes, stop using Windows. Stop using the featureless proprietary tools provided by these vendors who only listen to their profit margins, not to their userbase.


Re:Microsoft Windows is the problem, not the devic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067905)

I think it's a problem with the device when you need external applications to accomplish those things.

Re:Microsoft Windows is the problem, not the devic (1)

hacker (14635) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067952)

When you're trying to put something external to the device, onto the device, or convert it to a format suitable for the device, it is logical that you would need external applications to handle such an operation.

If everything was self-contained, I would agree.

Multiple Calendars, OSXNewtonPod (2, Insightful)

bburdette (556965) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067821)

I'd really like to see multiple calendars on the palm. Right now all categories of events have to reside in the same calendar, I'd like to be able to have just family stuff (like birthdays) on one calendar, have a business calendar, and then a personal calendar, and then all of the above. Currently the palm is fine for my needs, but that's because I only use the basics these days. It is true that there has been little innovation from Palm in the past 5 years. Just little details here or there, nothing really revolutionary. I expected something big from them when they bought the BeOS, but it looks like that was simply filed away for use by no one. Too bad! This wouldn't really bother me much except that I like Palm and I'd like to see them succeed. The truth is that eventually palmtops will be as capable as desktops, and palmtop makers will need to be ready for that reality. From this standpoint microsoft has a huge advantage over Palm in the future, since Palm has no desktop capable platform. Palm's only hope here is that they seem to have (or had in the past) an ease-of-use advantage, and a simplicity and reliability that microsoft has traditionally lacked. What palm really needs is a powerful work-of-art trendy eye candy OS that is be strong enough to be used as a full on work/game platform as well as a palmtop OS. Maybe its time for apple to take the stage here again? OSXNewtonPod anyone?

The Coin Has Two Sides (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067822)

On the one hand, I can see the sense in complaining about the lack of innovation by Palm.

On the other hand, there is something to be said for "if it ain't broken, don't fix it". Palm's handhelds are largely immune to the feature creep that Pocket PC devices exhibit. They just do what they were made to do. Last time I checked, Palm devices were cheaper and required fewer recharges and reboots than Pocket PCs.

Palm is a dying breed (2, Interesting)

Surur (694693) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067833)

Too many palm loving mods suppressing intelligent comments

Palm is a dieing breed (Score:-1, Troll)
by fzammett (255288) on Sunday December 12, @08:15PM (#11067719)
( http://www.omnytex.com/ )
Seriously, it is. Even the worst PocketPC is far more functional, and they are quite stable and reliable.

And that doesn't even mention Linux-based devices, which really haven't taken hold yet. I think it's just a matter of time before they do, although there needs to be a good shell around it. I thought the Zaurus was a good start, but (a) they just aren't big in the states, and (b) they aren't up to snuff yet.

Simply put, a PocketPC is what you want, well, in your pocket, these days. Palm used to be king, but it's stagnated, and even in it's heyday it was difficult to write applications for, so even though you saw a lot available, 98% of it was crap (and still is). Sure, there's plenty of crap for PocketPC's as well, but there's a higher percentage of actually useful software.

Forget Palm. History will do the same, soon enough.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pair?

Blatant bit of self-promotion (5, Informative)

BenjyD (316700) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067834)

It doesn't seem to want to deal with text files (there is no import feature for the Palm Desktop notepad or memo pad, for example).

I found the lack of a decent text editor so annoying that 18 months ago I started writing a text editor for PalmOS: SiEd [benroe.com]. It opens text files straight from SD-Cards, as well as Palm DOC files in main memory. You can use it to convert between the two as well.

Much of this has been fixed now... (5, Informative)

diamondsw (685967) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067853)

...with the Tungsten T5 and the Treo 650. Each of these handhelds has two types of memory built in - the usual RAM that we've had for years, and non-volatile memory where all of your user data, programs, etc are stored. This memory is formatted with a standard FAT filesystem, and can be mounted on the desktop with no special tricks. Essentially, this NVRAM acts as a "hard disk" for the Palm, and should be every bit as flexible as one.

From the T5 spec sheet:
256MB (215MB actual storage capacity: 160MB internal flash drive, 55MB program memory for applications and data.)

And from the Treo 650 spec sheet:
23MB user-available stored non-volatile memory [doesn't list program memory - I believe it's 32MB]

See the following for more details:
How does the Treo 650 memory system work (NVFS)? [palmone.com]

Palms are still toys. Get a small laptop (1)

rogerborn (236155) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067857)

Sorry. If you want to do real work, you need a real computer with real production apps.

Palm, to me, has never fulfilled that dream of a handheld capable of doing any real work.

You should not have to bend yourself to your computer - rather it should be able to accommodate itself to your needs, and do it easily, without hassle or angst.

Almost any small laptop, even an old one, has far better production capabilities than any new Palm, or for that matter, any new PocketPC.

People who sit on the commuter train while trying to do serious work on one of these minuscule devices look like they are playing on a GameBoy - and losing.

Roger Born
"Sorry. No Refunds."

Sony has/had the solution (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11067864)

I'm using a Sony Clie TJ-37. Apart from the entirely useless built-in VGA camera, it's a very fine PDA. It accepts memory sticks, and comes with a built-in application that exposes the memory stick as a USB drive to the computer. For short text snippets, I'm using the gnome-pilot suite to synchronize them to the Memopad application. It also comes with Picselview installed, which is a very cool MS Office/PDF/many image formats file viewer, with an MP3 player application, and with an editor for MS Word and Excel files. A web browser and WiFi connectivity are also part of the package. Then again, I heard that Sony wants to discontinue its PDA line. On the positive side, that could mean that you could get one pretty cheaply. On the negative side, Sony seems to be comitted to getting rid of all products that geeks actually find cool.

palms no laptops (1)

elix3r (760009) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067878)

I use my Clie for a lot of stuff and love it, but I just had to accept that its not a laptop and you use it for the small size and convience, not to do a ton of stuff. I agree tho that there is a lack of progress in this agree and it should be improved

From my own PDA experiences... (1)

Aphrika (756248) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067887)

I've found that the PocketPC is generally better in this respect. Before I get modded as a troll like all the other pro-PocketPC comments, have a read.

"all files must be "owned" by an application"

For a device like a Palm, this makes perfect sense. A Palm is not a file transport device, it is a PDA/viewer. Not having to deal with filetypes per se means that it can do away with a huge chunk of complexity as you don't need the equivalent of Windows Explorer to manage the file structure. In any case, why would you want to look at files that aren't associated with an application, moreso, how would you look at them?

This is where the Palm is a damn good PDA, whereas the PocketPC takes the PC metaphor and shrinks it down to - literally - a pocket PC. While there are a lot of people posting saying the PocketPC is better, it is also more complex, which is not desirable if you want a PDA. It also suffers from exactly the same problem as the PocketPC - or any desktop PC for that matter - in that if you don't have a required app installed, you can't view certain files.

From personal use of both devices in the past (Pilot Pro > Casio E115 > Tungsten T > Fujitsu LOOX 720) I've found that the Palm is a much better PDA, while the PocketPC is a much better pocket computer. In essence they've both defined their own niches in the market and if you find that one doesn't suit you, the other one will.

jPilot (3, Insightful)

Davoid (5734) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067910)

I have been using jPilot for about 5-6 years now with my Palm Vx http://www.jpilot.org/ [jpilot.org]

I can import/export plain text files as text, CSV, or DAT/MPA. No need to copy-paste. This works for the Memopad app in Palm OS. It also works for the Addressbook, Datebook, and TodoList. I can not say enough good things about jPilot... reliable, simple, fast, gets the job done. It is such a good application I would use it as a PIM even if I didn't have the Palm OS device. One can also get plugins for gnu-keyring and email... and a few others I never use.

Only one caveat... jPilot only runs on Linux/Unix. Once the files are imported to the Palm the regualr Windows and Mac OS Palm Desktop apps read them just fine.

I really don't see the problem of the original question. Palm OS does a limited set of things and it does them well. It is basically a way of carrying around a bunch of conveniently searchable and editable databases. I have not found the need for the newer or more featureful apps that are available on Pocket PCs. I also own a Sharp Zaurus 5000 and an HP iPaq. Neither of which comes close to the reliability and utility of my nice little Palm Vx. From my experience all the fancier devices try to squish desktop apps into a palm sized device... none of them do it well.


Palm != PC (1)

mysterious_mark (577643) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067913)

The good thing about Palm is that it is not PC like, the simplicity of the OS is its best feature, I don't need a file system, or floating point numbers etc. Having a simple robust OS that runs on hardware that draws little power, has no moving parts and will actually function in adverse conditions is a huge advantage. Turns out you really don't need a file system or floating point numbers or a 32 bit OS to implement complex applications. Also Palm devices are as cheap as $75 for OS 5 models. My current project http://www.snowpilot.org uses base level Palm devices to collect Snow science data in the field, the conditions are quite adverse, (extreme cold, moisture etc.) this type of project would be very difficult to implent on heavy weight hardware and OS. I love Palm OS because it is the opposite of PC, the more they try to make it PC like the more they'll ruin it. Developers have implemented all kinds of very powerful apps on Palm without all the extraneous PC like features, and this can continue, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If you want a more PC like OS why not use Pocket PC/ Windows Mobile? Mark

Pocket PC and Microsoft NOTES (1)

Yo Grark (465041) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067920)

Ok here's my biggest beef with Pocketpc "progress".

Why can't I sync my notes with categories? Phatnotes crashes with Exchange, and no other "open" or closed source solutions even come close to giving me that functionality.

I invested a good amount of time organizing everything by categories, and bought a pocketpc for seemingly seamless integration with Outlook.

Boy was I wrong. Does ANYONE have a solution?


Yo Grark

Softick Car Exporter (1)

Porag_Spliffing (66509) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067921)

I use softick card exporter [softick.com] (site is not responding to me, look for the google cache) which makes the card show up as a USB drive. Under linux it is a scsi device like any other usb card reader and can be mounted and used as a normal drive. When done make sure you sync and unmount !

Card reader, pedit (1)

PeekabooCaribou (544905) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067928)

I would really suggest some sort of media reader... I have a Lexar Mult-Card reader [lexar.com] (the 7-in-1 I believe, a bit older than the current 12-in-1) and I insert my SD card whenever I need to transfer files around. It's not a huge expense, and doesn't take up a lot of time. A mountable Palm device would be nice, but I wouldn't expect to see one soon. (The Palm cradle is too conducive to removing the hardware, you would have to "eject" your PDA every time you picked it up.)

Have you considered pedit [rr.com] for text file editing?

Palms are great (1)

Emanuel Goldstein (832957) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067946)

I have stopped reading books in print if there is an e-book of it availible. I only wish they came with more memory built in so I could veiw video. In my work we are busy creating digital video and it would be nice if I could carry a lot of it around with me. I am sure that the "memory revolution" is coming, I only hope I do not have to wait for to long.

The answer is quite simple really... (2, Interesting)

Nephroth (586753) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067949)

I've found that the best thing to do is to stick with a non-Palm yet Palm OS variant. I have a Sony Cliè and it is wondrous. The Picsel viewer that comes standard with the Cliè handles images, plain text, office documents, and PDF files wonderfully. There is also an MS-Office compatible application called "Documents to go" which allows you to create and open documents accessible by a variety of PC applications. The data import application allows you to connect the Cliè via USB to any computer and use it as a USB hard drive using default mass storage device drivers allowing you to copy arbitrary files to and from the Cliè with very little hassle. I've owned a fair number of PDAs, everything from the old pocket organizers from "back in the day" to clamshell full keyboard devices like the Psion Revo and Jornada 680 but by far my Cliè has been the most satisfying and useful PDA I've owned. Unfortunately, Sony has pulled out of the US PDA market (at least for now, one can hope can't they?) and you'd have to procure one via import or an auction site like e-bay.

On another note, it's disturbing to me that Sony's PDAs did so poorly in North America. In terms of ergonomics and ease of use, I've found the Cliè line to be outstanding. The only reasons that I can muster to explain their poor sales could be the price... they were on average a bit pricier than other models, but as the axiom goes, you get what you pay for. The other might be the relatively conservative design of the devices themselves. PDAs made by other companies are often exotic shapes and covered in lots of prominent buttons and such. They stand out, that's for certain, but they also get turned on in your pocket and are much more uncomfortable to use. The Cliè sports a hold switch which prevents any of the face buttons from turning the device on, and the face buttons themselves are recessed enough to prevent accidental operation anyway.

The jog dial of the Cliè is another example of superior design, whilst the majority of palm devices sport directional pads; the Cliè has a wheel-mouse like jog dial which makes navigation far faster.

Also worth noting would be the media fidelity of the device. The sound-rendering abilities of the Cliè rival any portable digital media player I've seen and the internal speaker is surprisingly capable when it comes to playback. (There is also a headphone port which makes it a suitable portable MP3 player as well. Start up the built-in media player with a playlist of MP3s and put the device on hold to save power) There is a lot to be said for the display as well, the screen is bright and the colors are rich and true. The Cliè has a higher resolution screen than most all PDAs of its class which means that images, websites, and games look much cleaner than they would on other devices. The higher resolution means that it's generally possible to scale a website designed for a 1024x768 PC display and still be able to read it without the need for tedious left-right scrolling.

Also worth noting is the wireless networking capabilities of the Cliè. It is convenient to be able to connect to your inbox when in a pinch. However, it is important to note that the use of WiFi is a major drain on the battery of the device. This is a minor pratfall, but I think it is also safe to say that PDAs are decidedly not the ideal device for casual web-surfing. If your intention is to surf the web at your local coffee shop or book emporium, it might be a better idea to invest in a laptop rather than a PDA. Even if somewhat dated, a laptop with a USB 802.11b adapter would be sufficient for mobile web surfing. (802.11b is inferior to G, I realize, but it seems fairly unlikely that you will be finding a WAP willing to give you a 54MBps internet connection)

There are downsides to the Cliè, I will admit. First off, the price is a bit daunting, especially for those who aren't looking for a device they plan to use constantly. You are also bound to using Sony accessories such as the memory stick format for auxiliary storage. These too are often more expensive than equivalent technologies and can make the cost of ownership preventative to many. Also important to note is the fact that the higher resolution screen can create some problems with 3rd party applications. Some programs will not scale properly on the display and make them barely if not unusable. Another thing to note is the infrared port on the Cliè uses a closed and unavailable library which means you probably won't be using it as a universal remote any time soon.

All in all, I think the benefits of Cliè vastly outweigh the problems. They are strong devices that are capable of handling both business and leisure and I think that they are WELL worth the money paid.

No multitasking... (2, Interesting)

$exyNerdie (683214) | more than 9 years ago | (#11067951)

If you have Treo 600 (palm OS 5.2), you will definitely get frustrated by lack of multi-tasking/multi-threading in PalmOS. If you are surfing the web and your friend sends you a text message, you go to SMS application and go back to browser, you lose where you left of. You have to start all over again.......

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