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216 comments

GNAA RULZ (-1, Offtopic)

dranomax2 (839611) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071546)

LastMeasure hits the 100000 watermark
LastMeasure hits the 100000 watermark
Zeikfried - Reuters, Nigeria

In a self congratulatory press conference described by one historical analyst as to be "worth 10 Dresdens", the now world famous egalitarians of the Gay Nigger Association of America announced to the worlds press that their highly successful open source lastmeasure project has now reached over one hundred thousand homes across the world.

Amidst a snowstorm of tickertape and parade like festivity, Penisbird, one of the founders of the LastMeasure project, screeched triumphantly from his now gold plated dong perch that the exponental growth of the sought after shock site can only continue. And even those outside the GNAAs dark skinned sphere of influence can only agree, in the face of the cutting edge "xangadot" marketing techniques applied by GNAA LM sales reps Incog, Saturn, Trake, qat, and Zeikfred Tuvai.

The sheer ferocity of the xangadot effect has caught many by surprise, none more so than xanga spokesperson AzN_ThuG_08, who was quoted as saying "MUTHAFUCKA TAKE DOWN MAH SITE...BITCH IM LETTIN U...FUCK DIS SITE AND FUCK U TOO. I CAN MAKE A NEW ONE I GOT THA TIME u stupid muthafucka" before driving his nitroglycerin laced riced up honda into GNAA Headquarters in a suicidal and dastardly attempt to decapitate the GNAA leadership. Thankfully the 140 decibel exhaust of the now vapourised vehicle allowed the surrounding buildings to be evacuated several minutes before the atrocity took place.

Speaking from his converted 1970's brothel, overpaid financial analyst Gary Niger told Reuters, "The effects of what has been dubbed the 'Open Source Final Solution' can be felt in almost every area of digital society. A striking example of this would be the once worthless .info TLD being re-energised with a huge cash and semen injection from the GNAA LastMeasure project, punctuated by Netcrafts recent confirmation that the GNAA has now gained a massive controlling stake in .info over the course of the past 2 months".

Can this momentum continue? Or has LastMeasure reached its unsurpassable xenith, with the only way left down? GNAA President timecop refused to comment, instead choosing to bathe naked in a pool of Yen laughing insanely. The future seems bright.

About LastMeasure:

A primitive version of LastMeasure was concieved by Penisbird of the GNAA after playing with an AIM utility named AIM Invader. It offered Penisbird a myriad of ways to crash AIM clients. By far the most powerful crash was the "last measure" crash, which would inundate an AIM client with file transfer requests, buddy list sends, messages full of smileys and colors, until the AIM client crashed due to lack of RAM.

The LastMeasure site originally consisted of Penisbird, Goatse, Tubgirl, Lemonparty, and Shitfaced Lady. But has expanded to include many other of the internets treasured icons. And with the addition of StatsMeasure, the clipboard data of thousands of unwitting victims has now been exposed for the world to see.

For more information about LastMeasure, visit the official website, LastMeasure.com [lastmeasure.com]

LastMeasure is licensed under the BSD Version 2 License.


About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

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  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Indian
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_indian@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2004 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

how lame... (1)

Adolf Hitroll (562418) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071548)

I thought the GNAA who just acquired Ninnle Linux already acquired Oracle ?

Was the transaction censored by Michael ?

Re:how lame... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11071662)

Schnitzel? Is this you?

R05BQSBHTkFBIEdOQUEK

Refunds??? (4, Interesting)

the-matt-mobile (621817) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071556)

So, I wonder if PeopleSoft customers can take advantage of the full refunds on their software licenses that were being offered if Oracle succeeded. The article's a little short on details.

Re:Refunds??? (2, Insightful)

Sein (803257) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071632)

Probably not - that was just a "Poison Pill" to make the takeover/buyout completely unprofitable for Oracle and their stockholders.

Poison pills are almost never in the stockholder's best interest - they're mainly used by entrenched boards and management who see their jobs threathened by any takeover, be it "hostile" or "friendly".

Since Oracle launched a lawsuit challenging that particular little gem, I think it's unlikely that anyone can take advantage of it before Oracle gains operational control and cancels the offer.

Re:Refunds??? (2, Interesting)

Duhavid (677874) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072456)

Interesting.

So, poison pills are OK, but labor unions are not.
Guess it depends on whos job is threatened.

Re:Refunds??? (3, Informative)

rcs1000 (462363) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072610)

That's simply not true. I have been intimately involved with the PeopleSoft/Oracle bid, and I can tell you had PeopleSoft not put the customer protection plan in place, it's sales would have collapsed following the bid.

When Oracle first announced it was to acquire PeopleSoft, it said it would close it down. Big corporate customers literally could not buy PeopleSoft software with the sword of "no support" hanging over them. With the product roadmap taken away, they delayed purchasing or went to SAP [sap.com] .

PeopleSoft was left with a dilemma, offer some reassurance to customers who wanted to buy its software or watch sales wither. (In which case, Oracle would probably have withdrawn its bid having seen a competitor's sales collapse.)

We may not like the way PeopleSoft tried to evade Oracle's clutches, but - as far as customer assurance went - it really had no choice, either for its shareholders or its customers.

Disclaimer: up until August '04, I was a stock analyst advising fund managers on the software industry.

Finally it happens (1, Interesting)

bblazer (757395) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071564)

I think that it is about time this happened. Now both companies can get on about doing business. The match is a good one, and I think that both the customers and the companies will benefit. While I don't blame PS for trying to get the highest price for their stock, I think that they could have saved everyone a lot of time, money and frustration if they would have just put this one to bed a long time ago.

Competition (2, Interesting)

millahtime (710421) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071591)

Oracle may be a giant but competition does many things. Keeps prices down, drives innovation to be better than the alternative, etc. With peoplesoft not the competition, who will be Oracles competition? If there is no other big dog out there then the customer will loose.

Without competition, then there is no reason to get better and what sets the price.

Re:Competition (4, Insightful)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071620)

who will be Oracles competition?

SAP is the major competition in the ERP market. If I remember correctly, SAP has a larger customer base than Oracle and PeopleSoft combined.

Re:Competition (1)

jawtheshark (198669) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071695)

Aren't most SAP installations based on Oracle databases? I thought they were, the big ones I saw were, or perhaps I'm mixing up different products.

Re:Competition (2, Interesting)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071842)

I'm mixing up different products.

You are. Oracle doesn't just make database software. Peoplesoft, SAP and Oracle make applications that run the back-office of many corporations (HR, Payroll, Accouting, Purchasing, etc.) This merger between Oracle and PeopleSoft impacts that applications. There are PeopleSoft applications that run on DB2, Oracle, Sybase and SQL Server. My guess is that at some point, Oracle will probably try to migrate all of the DB2, Sybase and SQL server customers to Oracle databases.

Re:Competition (1)

Ranger96 (452365) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072188)

Oracle may try, and may succeed in a few cases, but I doubt there will be huge numbers of existing Peoplesoft customers changing their underlying databases. Most large companies tend to standardize on a single enterprise DB platform (Oracle, DB2, etc.) and expect all of their applications to use it. Otherwise, the cost of DBA operations is just way too high. It's unlikely Oracle could convince a company to switch their PeopleSoft software from DB2 to Oracle DB, if all of their other applications run on DB2.

Re:Competition (1)

Gulik (179693) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072411)

It's unlikely Oracle could convince a company to switch their PeopleSoft software from DB2 to Oracle DB, if all of their other applications run on DB2.

That depends on how heavily the company is into PeopleSoft. If they are, for example, a school, and have their payroll, student information system, financial resource system, and grants package manager all on PeopleSoft, and PeopleSoft says that the next revision is only going to support Oracle, there's going to be a strong tendency to migrate (or add an Oracle box), even if there are a lot of other packages running on DB2. PeopleSoft can be a huge part of a company's administrative system.

Re:Competition (1)

mahju (160244) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071996)

A bit of shameless self-referencing here. I commented on the PS / JDE on slash here some time back... so here it is again;

I've worked with a range of these ERPs and advise companies on their choices. They aren't all the same thing.

Historically it goes like this;

PeopleSoft is the leader in Human Resources ERP software.

SAP leads manufacturing / distribution software

Oracle is best at Finance

All of theses top tier ERP systems offer enterprise wide applications. SAP has good HR solution, PS now owns JDE which gives it a look into manufacturing and dist, and Oracle is increasing its HR.

Basically Oracle has a load of cash from its Database income base, and by absorbing PS, it would greatly increase its HR market share, and more easily dominate the market.


Now Oracle has bought PS, its going to be huge in the HR space, and a really compete with SAP. Oracle say in its latest release on its website that it will continue the PS line for sometime, and release version 9. I personally thinkit will go the way of Vantive and JDE. You'll see PS survive for under a year, then the labels and logos will change and nothing else, and finally in about 2-3 years time it will be ported to Oracle technology, and be no more.

One final prediction. When the port to Oracle apps technology occurs, you will be locked into using an Oracle database (unlike PS which sat on a range of DBs).

Re:Competition (1)

hercubus (755805) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072041)

for enterprise apps, SAP is bigger than PeopleSoft in enterprise apps, Oracle a distant, distant third for the DB side, Oracle has plenty of competition, from mySQL to Microsoft SQL server to IBM's DB2 all of which doesn't have any effect on Oracle's prices

Re:Finally it happens (1)

mwood (25379) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071714)

So now Oracle customers too can look forward to spending five years installing a single release of a single product?

Re:Finally it happens (1)

d'fim (132296) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071809)

"Now both companies can get on about doing business."

No, there will only be one company 'doing business'.

Re:Finally it happens (1)

ThePhilips (752041) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072594)

No, there will only be one company 'doing business'.

I hope it will not become soap opeara like with Digital heritage.

Digital (later DEC) was bought by Compaq to ... seems to me to kill competitor. But stupid customers still used DEC stuff, since it worked and worked well, compared to Compaq stuff.

Then Compaq was bought by HP to ... mating of dinos? Most likely. But still this bone-head DEC customers insisted on using software and hardware which just works, and doesn't enrich market with new services & jobs, like PC Repairman.

So after all this years, HP finally killed off DEC legacy stuff, since it is of no use to them - it just works.

Parallels with current situation are obvious. Oracle tries to sell something what sometimes works with market cost of $10 for $100 so no-one wants to buy it. And instead of building better cheaper product it buys PeopleSoft.

I'd be laughing a lot if in couple of years if M$ or IBM will come up with bid to buy Oracle. It would be fun for sure. Especially for People Soft customers.

Re:Finally it happens (1)

oldwarrior (463580) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071903)

Damn. I hate Oracle. The company has been so arrogant and nazi-like since the days when their db treated every host machine's address space like a big, stupid PC. They insist on bloody everything acting like oracle was the operating system and therefore can't take full advantage of any innovation not made by them (of which there are maybe, 2?). Peoplesoft gets assimilated into the OraBorg.

Re:Finally it happens (1)

CptChipJew (301983) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071985)

This isn't the "merger" that Oracle is saying it is. PeopleSoft will be slowly phased out. The only reason they are claiming to still want to improve the application is because PSFT gave their customers 10 year support contracts, and Oracle is legally obliged to maintain that, or refund money. And refunding is something they could not afford, as contracts like Cal State Universities are worth over 300 million.

So now instead of having 2 companies doing business, we have 1, with the other guaranteed to be dead in under 10 years.

(PSFT Employee)

many mergers/acquistions in the news today (4, Interesting)

theskeptic (699213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071565)

The top 4 out of 5 stories in the wsj.com site an hour back were-
Peoplesoft-Oracle.
JnJ- Guidant
Sprint-Nextel
Honeywell-Novar
London Stock Exchange- Deutsche Boerse

Lots of mergers/acquistions going on. Good for companies who want less competition. Bad for consumers.

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (3, Funny)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071585)

But you're forgetting, they are doing it for innovation and synergy not for profits and eliminating competition..... silly rabbit.

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (1)

hercubus (755805) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071954)

Oracle are doing it because SAP has been eating their lunch globally in the enterprise apps arena, an arena Oracle'd love to play in but have no products (that actually work) now they have control of PeopleSoft's apps, god bless those PeopleSoft customers

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (1)

Zog The Undeniable (632031) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072012)

And look at HP-Compaq or AOL-Time Warner for what happens

/adopts stentorian Discovery Channel announcer's voice

When Good Mergers Go Bad.

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (1)

superpulpsicle (533373) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072631)

Oh man, and I thought management was doing it just to pocket some a couple million dollars while firing a thousand employees. Wow, now I know they are doing it for innovation and synergy. Thanks for the clear up.

incorrect economic analysis. (2, Interesting)

Leonig Mig (695104) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071598)

if a merger is vertical it tends to lower costs and is thus good for the consumer. arguably oracle/peoplesoft is vertical.

you are thinking of horizontal mergers. with the exception of JnJ- Guidant, and Sprint-Nextel (which i know little about), none of those listed are horizontal.

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071725)

Please define vertical and horizontal in terms of businesses and mergers.

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Custard (587661) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071751)

Vertical: a bigger company buys a smaller one, and the smaller one essentially becomes a division of the larger one. Like when Hitachi bought IBM's hard drive unit.

Horizontal: Two large companies that already do similar things merge. Such as the Compaq/HP merger.

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (4, Informative)

mforbes (575538) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071783)

A horizontal merger is one in which both companies compete for the same market. For instance, if MS were to buy out Oracle's database platform and services, that would be a horizontal merger, since MS already has SQL Server.

A vertical merger is one in which, for instance, one company uses a product of the other company in order to build and sell their own product. An example of this would be if a cellular service provider were to buy a cell phone manufacturer. (I don't know of any real-world instances of this; it's only a theoretical example.)

Hope that helps :)

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (1)

Angostura (703910) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071949)

Thus the weakness of the original poster's argument is demonstrated. Microsoft buying an application company is certainly vertical, and certainly unlikely to be particularly good for consumers.

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11072584)

The most often cited real-world example I can think of is the film industry, in its early years. Vertical integration of the industry resulted in the same company owning the film studios, the distribution channels, and the theaters themselves. There was a time when you could only see Paramount movies at Paramount theaters or Universal movies at Universal theaters as a result of this, until the government got involved after some lawsuits. NOT always better for the consumer.

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (1)

nelsonal (549144) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072088)

Vertical traditionally implies that a company is buying a supplier or customer. Think Dell/Intel. Horizontal means buying a direct competitor like HP/Compaq. Vertical mergers are intended to provide significant streamlining of an entire supply chain, horizontal mergers are intended to reduce overhead costs (removal of one CEO, many accountants managers and such) while not cutting output. Most mergers are a mix of the two as most companies are big enough to compete with many of their suppliers. The final type of merger that isn't used much anymore is a diversification/conglomeration merger where a company buys an unrelated business like MS buying an auto company or something. These can be useful for diversification (look at AOL whose shareholders got half of a real media company) but are rarely good for owners of either company.
Software is a bit tricky but I'd call this more of a horizontal merger a true vertical merger in software would be something like EA buying that development tools company (was it Radware?) or something similar.

Re:incorrect economic analysis. (1)

Rasta Prefect (250915) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071915)

arguably oracle/peoplesoft is vertical.

Oracle and Peoplesoft compete directly to provide ERP systems. Are in fact numbers 2 and 3 in this space. How is this arguably vertical?

Make that 5 out of 5 (3, Funny)

woodsrunner (746751) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071611)

And don't forget the most important one: Molson's and Coor's .... this is far scarrier than Peoplesoft and Oracle!!!!

Re:Make that 5 out of 5 (1)

Fallen_Knight (635373) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072719)

yea, thank god theres always good local beers in case the merger screws up canadian.

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (0)

JustOK (667959) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071715)

those stories are there just to hide all the layoffs/firings going on.

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (1)

prgrmr (568806) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071991)

What this really points to is that big business believes that the economy is stable enough and has sufficient growth potential to risk spending the big bucks to invest in it.

Whether or not this is good news for the average consumer remains to be seen. The software market is going to continue to get tighter. This is a complete SWAG based on nothing current, but I wouldn't be surprised if Sybase was the next big take-over target.

The cell phone market is going to stay competitive for a while with Sprint both lowering the bar for consumers and tossing the gauntlet at the competition with flat-fee overages. By this time next year we may be looking at unlimited, non-peak hour cell service for a flat rate and peak-hour overages for a flat rate from all cell providers

Re:many mergers/acquistions in the news today (1)

avronius (689343) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072717)

Sybase appears to be getting 'squeezed' out of datacentres, and their 'free' release doesn't appear to have made the impact that they were expecting, either...

It may well be the proverbial 'hot potato' in the database game. There are a small handful of contenders in the pay-for space, and a small handful in the free-to-good-home space.

I hope that Sybase finds it's niche again, but it's a fickle market. Who knows, if enough corporations have leadership changes next year, Sybase may regain leverage in the market.

Total value... (0)

leonmergen (807379) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071567)

... FYI: The total value of all the shares is 10.3 billion dollar... seriously, does Oracle really think to make $2 out of every living being on earth by acquiring Peoplesoft?

Re:Total value... (1)

BristolCream (102658) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071596)

Of course they don't; they hope to make several thousand out of 5% of the total people on earth and several hundred thousand out of .2$ of the total people on earth.

Re:Total value... (4, Insightful)

jchawk (127686) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071603)

Considering that Oracle made 10.30B last year alone, I think this is probably a wise investment for them. PeopleSoft's software fits nicely within the framework that Oracle is already able to build and offer to it's customers. This move will surely broaden the markets with which Oracle can move into and deploy their products...

Re:Total value... (4, Interesting)

slyckshoes (174544) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071834)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Oracle had little interest in PeopleSoft's products and more interest in removing a competitor. PeopleSoft and IBM are tight (PeopleSoft's products can be deployed on WebSphere, I believe) and purchasing PeopleSoft (and stopping development on their products) would not only remove a competitor, it would also be detrimental to IBM. That's why PeopleSoft created the poison pill, they feared that Oracle would buy them and then stop supporting their customers and instead foist their own solutions on them. If you've already got PeopleSoft + WebSphere, it's not so difficult to go with DB2 over Oracle, but if you have Oracle already, you'll buy their DB too.

Re:Total value... (1)

theskeptic (699213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071604)

When companies buy other companies for 30-40 Billion $, you think they make 5 $ out of every human being? That's a stupid argument.
Its like saying IBM earned 8.7 Billion $ last year. Therefore it earned 1.45 $ from every human being.
You have stated living being. Which also includes mammals, insects..

Peoplesoft is worth so much(atleast to Oracle) is because of the customers Peoplesoft has. It takes time to build a business and earn profits from it.
When you take a competitor off the market and acquire most of its customer base, then you have to pay accordingly.

Indeed... (3, Interesting)

cybrthng (22291) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071623)

Infact they make much more then that. ERP is lucrative business - believe me. I've been working on these systems for 6+ years now.

When i worked for Oracle - even the most basic project was a 2-5 million dollar project and that was before montly/yearly support plans and extended consulting fees.

There is money to be made, but also technology to be learned from. Peoplesoft has its HR roots and JD Edwards has its MRP/Manufacturing roots that oracle could learn tons from.

Interesting take on things... (1)

arashiakari (633150) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071820)

I know it is offtopic, but from that perspective, Saddam Hussein stole $4 from every man woman and child on the planet, and for some people $4 is a week or a month's pay. Since he stole it from the U.N. ...he really did steal it from everyone.

Re:Total value... (1)

Democratus (832327) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071875)

That's not exactly how it works.

The wonderful thing about buying another company is that you get a great deal of your money back.

I was involved in a large buyout recently and got to see what a boondogle it really is.

You see, Oracle gives all this money to PeopleSoft - and then it owns PeopleSoft and all the money that it just got paid.

The only real loss of money is the cash-outs for the major stockholders. Generally the deal is done as part cash and part stock. The ratio of cash-to-stock is part of the buyout deal. Any monies that go into the PeopleSoft treasury becomes the property of Oracle once the merger is complete.

In the buyout I got to observe first hand, our company was purchased for around $50 million. $35 million of this went right back into the purchasing company, so the real cost was only $15 million. ...who said math isn't fun?

Re:Total value... (1)

nelsonal (549144) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072528)

I believe in this case Oracle paying cash for Peoplesoft. Not that it will break the bank mind you, but it does delay share repurchases for Oracle for a year or two. Between the two companies there is ~$10.8 billion in cash and short term equivalents.

Business Plan (1)

rf0 (159958) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071572)

Buy PeopleSoft to get a new customer base. Raise prices on PeopleSoft software to increase revenue and recover cost. Nice money if you can get it

Rus

W000h0000! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11071576)

Finally someone other than Microsoft gets to gobble up the little guy...err...*sigh*

This is going to be painful (2, Insightful)

Amiga Trombone (592952) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071580)

My shop is running a massive PeopleSoft implementation. Now what? Since Oracle wants to discontinue the line I wonder how much longer they'll be offering support for it. I also have to wonder what our alternatives are going to be to replace it.

This is going to suck big time.

Re:This is going to be painful (1)

A.Chwunbee (838021) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071629)

"My shop is running a massive PeopleSoft implementation. [snip] I also have to wonder what our alternatives are going to be to replace it."

Do not be the clever dickie! There are many many jolly fine alternatives! [erp-softwa...arison.com]

open source (2, Interesting)

jeif1k (809151) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071677)

After you have gone through a few of those, you'll come to realize the value of open source. People didn't use to think this was possible for OS'es or GUIs, but it turned out it was. They said open source wasn't reliable enough or secure enough or whatever, but they were wrong. And, yes, it is possible for the kinds of products PeopleSoft used to make as well.

Maybe your company and a bunch of other companies should get together and start working on an open source version of PeopleSoft's software. The good thing is that you don't have any legacy headaches and that you have great tools to work with.

Re:open source (2, Insightful)

Wudbaer (48473) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071735)

Now show me the great Open Source product being able to replace SAP, PeopleSoft and the like and everything will be jolly good.

Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to write it myself. My stupid.

Re:open source (1)

gregmac (629064) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071960)

Now show me the great Open Source product being able to replace SAP, PeopleSoft and the like and everything will be jolly good.

Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to write it myself. My stupid.


Attitudes like this are exactly why no open source version exists. There is quite a bit of value in writing an open source solution, espessially if your primary business is not software development. Hiring a couple of in-house programmers for a year to do development is probably not much more expensive (perhaps even cheaper) than paying the proprietary software to begin with, espessailly once you get customizations done.

There's likely enough demand (espessially now that PeopleSoft is going to disappear) that provided your developers know how to do OS (as in, provide all the necessary tools - cvs, mailing lists, etc) and are properly organized (proper roadmap, enough documentation along the way), other companies and/or individuals will likely take an interest and help out with development.

The benefits? You get the software you want exactly, customized to your business. You get enhancements as other companies customize it to their needs and add new features, and once you're done writing it, you don't even really need to continue development if you don't want to, as hopefully there's a community working on it. Likely the developers will leave (or ge laid off..) and go start their own company doing development on the software for other companies. If you ever need to hire developers, there's a pool of them to choose from that are already familliar with the code. The key thing is you never have to be worried about what happens to the company behind the software, because there isn't one.

Of course, you may not want to venture into the seedy world of open source development where rivals can look at the code you're using and totally undermine your business pratices (I hope you can detect the sarcasm). Perhaps the best thing to do would be to go pay another huge sum of money to Oracle, spend a year re-implementing your setup, and perhaps go through this mess again in a few years when Oracle decides to discontinue their software, gets bought out by a competitor, changes their licensing scheme, take the product in a new direction, gets crushed by Microsoft, goes bankrupt, gets sued for stealing code....

Re:open source (1)

EastCoastSurfer (310758) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072079)

where rivals can look at the code you're using and totally undermine your business pratices

There is some truth to this statement though. If company A hires me to write some software for them that gives them a competitive advantage why would they want to release it as open source? Company A footed the bill for development, so they reap the rewards. What is the arugment for releasing the software as open source so that competitors B, C, etc... get to use the software for free?

Re:open source (1)

radarsat1 (786772) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072177)

that, i believe, would be the part of the post you didn't quote.

Re:open source (1)

EastCoastSurfer (310758) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072280)

Since company A developed the code, they already own the source. This allows them to just hire developers to do work on it anytime they want. Releasing it as open source allows company As competitors to use the code (which destroys it's competitive advantage) and they only gain IF competitors add features that also end up being useful to company A. It seems like a big gamble for company A to release the software as open source where they give up a competitive advantage for a hope that they get some additional features in return.

Re:open source (2, Interesting)

hanssprudel (323035) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072374)

. If company A hires me to write some software for them that gives them a competitive advantage why would they want to release it as open source? Company A footed the bill for development, so they reap the rewards. What is the arugment for releasing the software as open source so that competitors B, C, etc... get to use the software for free?

The point is that you are in the business of maximizing the returns for your stockholders, not trying to punish the stockholders of your competitors. If you can increase the profitability of the entire sector by 20%, you have done a better job then if you increase your market share by 10%.

So yes, your competitors get reap the rewards of your work, but because you released it under the GPL, you will get paid back by reaping the rewards of their additions, modifications, and bugfixes. As has been seen by many companies, the advantage of having the in-house knowledge and the software developed around your needs, more than compensates you for the extra expense of having the started it.

That everybody else benefits as well does not dilute your benefit. Stockholders are not paid in percentage points!

Re:open source (2, Insightful)

durdur (252098) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072352)

Large corporate applications like PeopleSoft are complex - it is not something a couple of guys can knock out in a year. Some apps are tightly tailored to particular industries, but even so, purchasers need a lot of customization to make the software work for them.
So it's not a "write it once, use everywhere" piece of software like the Linux kernel. Plus, a lot of companies who buy this stuff are not software experts - that's not what their business does. So writing their own solution is not an attractive option. They want to sell more widgets, which is what they know about, not set up a software development shop and compete with the likes of Oracle and PeopleSoft.

Re:open source (4, Insightful)

jacobcaz (91509) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072529)

  • Hiring a couple of in-house programmers for a year to do development is probably not much more expensive (perhaps even cheaper) than paying the proprietary software to begin with, espessailly once you get customizations done.
Hiring a couple of in-house programmers for a year will get you jack squat progress towards a full-blown home-rolled ERP system.

I will wager you could pull off something like a inventory management package or order management interface that would work in a small company, but there is no way a "couple of in-house programmers" could produce anything close to an Oracle/PeopleSoft/Great Plains/SAP type system.

The system flexability, business knowledge requirements, legal issues, tax issues, GAAP requirements, Sarbanes-Oxley requirements, etc. would overwhelm any small team. Couple that with the need for on-going support and upgrades, regulatory updated (taxes, SoX, etc.) and you've got a team of hundreds working on the project.

"But it's open-source!" you cry, "We'll give it to the community and let them extend and build it!" Without a in-stone development plan you would just have a ton of people all working on various bits and it would be difficult if not impossible because you would have a hard time determining where someone would fit into the project based on their desire to contribute and their skills/background.

If you could manage to pull all this off - you would have to offer some type of 24x7 support if you wanted anyone else to use your software. No company that would need an ERP solution would touch one without serious support backing it up. So you setup a division to charge for and provide 24x7 technical support (and don't forget you'll need to provide functional support too).

Guess what; you just re-built an SAP or a PeopleSoft.

Re:open source (2, Insightful)

IdleTime (561841) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072687)

Writing an OS is easy, writing Oracle Apps, SAP or Peoplesoft is much more complicated. Why? Simply because it has to be adapted to local laws in all countries it will be sold in, differences in accounting practices etc. You need patches for every country and every minor change in laws. You need support 24/7 since it is a vital product for most companies, withouit it running, you have no idea who owes you money and vice versa etc.

Re:open source (1)

mikrorechner (621077) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072112)

People didn't use to think this was possible for OS'es or GUIs, but it turned out it was. They said open source wasn't reliable enough or secure enough or whatever, but they were wrong.
I think there is a difference between those two and the kind of software that Oracle, Peoplesoft etc. sell. The open source OSes, like Linux and the BSDs, and the open source desktop environments, like Gnome and KDE (which I assume you meant by "GUIs"), where made by programmers for their own use. People always try to improve those for their own good, because they use them themselves every day.

How many programmers out there will say "Huh, I don't like this PeopleSpft stuff, I will write my own ERP software!"?

None, I believe.

Re:open source (1)

hercubus (755805) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072140)

i cannot imagine anyone doing enterprise apps for any reason other than profit

this is pure business muck, no fun or glory to be had whatsoever - how many widgets sold, what price, when, to whom, yadda yadda

this is the coding equivalent of changing other people's kids' poopy diapers all day. no fun, no ego boost, just oceans of baby dung

the only way anyone is going to work on enterprise apps is for profit, this is an OSS-proof business

Not that bad (1)

spectrokid (660550) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071752)

If you merge, the biggest thing you buy is the other guys customers. If Oracle hangs you out to dry, you can just as well move to SAP. That would be money straight out of the window for Oracle. So expect a super soft and cuddely migration, spread over several years...

Re:This is going to be painful (1)

webmosher (322834) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071796)

Don't worry too much. Oracle must leech from your company as many dollars as possible while also ensuring you become addicted to their products. I'm sure Oracle will do their best to ensure PeopleSoft 9 is a high performance, exhaustively featured and difficult to administer product as anything else they have developed. Heck, its their business model: expensive products, expensive licensing, expensive support.

However, while Oracle may be very pricy, it does what it does very well. You might argue that you're paying alot more than you get, but who's to say what the real price of quality, well supported products is in this day-and-age. I can remember when MicroSoft user support was still actually free. Now, that same level of support is a premium service. Many companies still seem to "put up" with the products that they deliver.

When Oracle says they're planning to give PS clients A-one support. I believe them. PeopleSoft as a product will not go away entirely. Expect PS 10 to be fully integrated with the Oracle application line (maybe around Oracle 12). Of course, by then you'll be paying fully exhorbitant Oracle licensing fees, not intermediate ones.

Re:This is going to be painful (1)

Pfhreakaz0id (82141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072052)

.... don't foget expensive "consulting" to actually get the stuff working as part of there revenue stream. Of course, they have all that excellent documentation, like a web site that looks like ass and forums that are crashed about 30% of the time. This is from a company who's couldn't be bothered to generate a javaDoc for a java API they had to one of there products-- Oracle Workflow -- I just checked and it still isn't there. Of course they were "working on that" 18 months ago when I asked.

Best Bet (1)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072371)

Is to wait it out, since any move will cost you a lot of cash, both hard cash and time..

Most likely oracle will let people migrate to what ever they come up with when the 2 products are merged. And most likely most will choose that route.

Not that i like oracles products, but once you spend several million to get PS running, you really dont have much of a choice realistically..

Employees? (1)

sangudu (728504) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071582)

What will happen to the existing employees? Will Oracle retain them or not? I hope it retains them.. PeopleSoft should see to it that its employees are not fired.. What is the usual way in which these things go? Any previous cases any one?

Re:Employees? (1)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071642)

What will happen to the existing employees? Will Oracle retain them or not?

This is just a guess on my part, but my gut feeling is that if you are a developer or software engineer working for PeopleSoft, you will be retained. If you are a PeopleSoft salesperson or a help desk employee, you better start looking for work.

Again, I am just guessing, since I am not an employee of either Oracle or PeopleSoft. I am basing my guess on what usually happens when IT companies merge. The developers and engineers are retained, the support personnel are laid off.

Re:Employees? (1)

stecoop (759508) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071864)

if you are a developer or software engineer working for PeopleSoft, you will be retained. If you are a PeopleSoft salesperson or a help desk employee, you better start looking for work.

You forgot the big one - If you're a Board of Director, you better start looking for work. You don't think the Oracle will retain any Directors or VPS after dragging their feet so much making it being so difficult in merging.

Re:Employees? (1)

OP_Boot (714046) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072098)

I've seen four or five buyouts of A Software Company by ANOther Software Company from the inside, and in none of them have the support staff been laid off.

Re:Employees? (1)

papasui (567265) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072270)

If you think of the chain of command as a pyramid the top of it being the CEO and the bottom base being the support staff/CSRS/etc, then you see that without them the entire pyramid would tumble. What typically happens with mergers and just restructuring in general is mid to upper management is the ones in jeopardy of loosing their jobs. Occasionally a few other oddball positions are eliminated, but if you have spent 2 years supporting a product (ala Peoplesoft) it doesn't make sense to eliminate those people because you'd then need to rehire someone to do that same job.

Re:Employees? (1)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072487)

and in none of them have the support staff been laid off.

Really? Then what's the point of the merger?

Note that by "support staff", I am not referring to software developers/engineers. Those positions will probably be retained, since Oracle will need their expertise to provide technical support to existing PeopleSoft customers. By Support Staff, I am referring to Administrative Assistants, Salespeople, Help Desk (Level 1) and maybe even some middle managers (as another poster pointed out).

PeopleSoft probably uses it's own software to run it's HR, Payroll, Benefits, Purchasing and Accounting functions. Until Oracle can migrate those functions into it's software, Oracle may have to keep some of those Peoplesoft personnel. Once they migrate all of those functions to Oracle applications, they can start pink-slipping the people in those departments (HR, accounting and purchasing).

What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (2, Informative)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071587)

I checked Oracle's web site. [oracle.com] It appears that existing PeopleSoft customers have some good news out of this. After having invested millions of dollars on PeopleSoft, they won't have to immediately migrate to another ERP system:

We intend to enhance PeopleSoft 8 and develop a PeopleSoft 9 and enhance a JD Edwards 5 and develop a JD Edwards 6. We intend to immediately extend and improve support for existing JD Edwards and PeopleSoft customers worldwide.

Of course, whether or not PeopleSoft version 9 is an improvement over PeopleSoft version 8 depends on how much you love your existing ERP system. Of course, I don't see anything on whether or not the new PeopleSoft version 9 will run on DB2 or SQL Server.

Re:What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (0, Flamebait)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071600)

Of course, I kept typing of course. Dumb ass, of course.

Re:What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (1)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071711)

Uh, moderators, why am I being moderated as "flamebait"? I was commenting on MY OWN COMMENT! I replied to myself.

Re:What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (1)

Ford Prefect (8777) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071739)

Uh, moderators, why am I being moderated as "flamebait"? I was commenting on MY OWN COMMENT! I replied to myself.

Look, if you're going to pick fights with yourself, please take it outside! :-)

Re:What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (1)

jacobcaz (91509) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071631)

  • We intend to enhance PeopleSoft 8 and develop a PeopleSoft 9 and enhance a JD Edwards 5 and develop a JD Edwards 6. We intend to immediately extend and improve support for existing JD Edwards and PeopleSoft customers worldwide.
The question is; will Oracle keep a lot of the PeopleSoft support staff and development staff or will they cut them loose? We've had problems in the past finding good GSC analysts for tech cases and when we find a tech who really knows the system we keep going back to them.

Also, some of the code I've seen come out of PeopleSoft is convulted and a miracle it works at all. If they cut a large portion of the development staff how long will it take Oracle to get their developers up to speed on the mess of PeopleCode, App Engine code and COBOL that makes PeopleSoft run?

Re:What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (1)

bhima (46039) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071645)

Amazing isn't it! My sister has made a small fortune being good with ugly, convulted COBOL

Re:What about existing PeopleSoft customers? (1)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071689)

we've had problems in the past finding good GSC analysts for tech cases

You found a good GSC analyst? Wow, can I get their e-mail address? I haven't found a good one yet.

If they cut a large portion of the development staff how long will it take Oracle to get their developers up to speed on the mess of PeopleCode, App Engine code and COBOL that makes PeopleSoft run?

Not to make you feel worse, but from what I have heard, Oracle Applications do not have a great reputation. Rumor has it that they are even buggier than PeopleSoft's applications.

I doubt Larry Ellison will lay off the development staff. If anything, he will probably offer all of PeopleSoft developers pay raises. He will need those developers in order to continue to support the existing applications. Salespeople and support staff, on the other hand, are probably due for layoffs.

Welcome (-1, Troll)

Manan Shah (808049) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071589)

I for one welcome our new business application supplier overlords.

Good economic news... (1)

arashiakari (633150) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071627)

Consolidation proceeds growth. There are mergers all over the place, not just high tech. Large cap stocks are going to have a good year in '05, and corporate spending is going to increase tangibly, especially on technology. Large caps are big stable companies that spend lots of money and hire lots of people.

Re:Good economic news... (1)

rahlquist (558509) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071698)

Consolidation proceeds growth.
Consolidation of this type only leads to growth of the unenployment line.

Re:BAD economic news... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11072179)

have you seen US currency exchange rates we are being hammered.

What about the poison pill? (3, Interesting)

TheRealFixer (552803) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071640)

Since Oracle's stated goal was to simply buy PeopleSoft to destroy their product line (something which I still can't believe the judge is letting them get away with), wasn't there a poison pill that if Oracle discontinued their product they'd be liable to refund every customer in full? What happened to that?

Re:What about the poison pill? (2, Informative)

mclearn (86140) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071906)

As long as the board agrees to the merger, the PP (well, actually, this is the CAP part of the PP agreement. The PP itself was a stock flood, as is per normal of poison pills) is null and void. The PP was designed to halt a *hostile* takeover attempt. This is no longer hostile. Also, Ellison has stated that they will continue to offer excellent (yeah, yeah, it's subjective) support to PSFT customers for the next 10 years or so.

Re:What about the poison pill? (2, Insightful)

pcardno (450934) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071939)

My company uses Peoplesoft a hell of a lot for accounts, HR and so on. A refund would be utterly useless, as the cost of the software itself is nothing compared to the cost associated with implementing and integrating a brand new general ledger, HR system and so on..

So, what happens to the Peoplesoft-IBM Alliance? (3, Interesting)

Cletus the yokel (462083) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071709)

Peoplesoft and IBM recently penned a strategic alliance [ibm.com] to resell and promote each others' products. So I guess this will begoing the way of the dodo. Or will it? Will the contract language leave Oracle in the embarrassing position of promoting DB2 as the preferred database platform [ibm.com] for Peoplesoft and JD Edwards?

I'm also wondering, long-term, about support from Oracle for Peoplsoft on platforms other than Oracle. Will Oracle support Peoplesoft on Oracle, Oracle, and Oracle? My understanding that most Peoplesoft implementations were historically SQL Server with the new preferred platform being DB2. if that changes again it'd be BIG headaches for DB2 customers...

Re:So, what happens to the Peoplesoft-IBM Alliance (1)

Cletus the yokel (462083) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071779)

Oh. Disclaimer time. Yes, I am an IBMer. And yes, I do work with DB2. And no, I'm not FUDing - I am speaking personally here. While the Oracle deal may or may not have a minimal impact on me and my job, my main concern is that the little guy may get the shaft here based on on some of Larry Ellison's verbal excretions back in 2003, indicating that they were more interested in the customer base than the product.

Great! (2, Funny)

stateofmind (756903) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071762)


Our company has been eagerly waiting for this merger. We completed a merger ourselves, last year.

It gave us the benefit of having both Oracle and PeopleSoft experts/consultants.

How many people work in a shop, that primarily uses Oracle? We use Oracle for the database, JDeveloper for the IDE (working on getting us to switch to Eclipse), Oracle Forms and now Oracle Portal.

I'm in charge of getting our Java environment up and running and moving us from PHP web application development, to Java. PHP may still be used for smaller applications, but Java will take over for the larger projects we now have coming in.

A few people want to use JDeveloper for the IDE, Oracle App Server for the Java server, and ADF for the architecture, and then of course Oracle for the db. Which I'm in total disagreement with, as it's putting to many of our eggs in one basket.

I'm fine with Oracle as our database (we also use postgreSQL). And can live with using JDeveloper for our IDE. (as I said, trying to get Eclipse). But I would much rather use JBoss or Tomcat for the app server and no way am I using ADF for the architecture. Spring Framework, all the way. :)

Josh

And wehat about the CUSTOMERS, PeopleSoft? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11071810)

It is interesting to note that the press release on PSFT's website mentions the value of the merger to the stockholders but makes absolutely no mention about the impact/value to its own customers. I guess the old saying is true... if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.

At least Oracle and PeopleSoft will look good on my resume... at the very least/worst, they'll cancel each other out.

Re:And wehat about the CUSTOMERS, PeopleSoft? (0, Offtopic)

The One and Only (691315) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071993)

It is interesting to note that the press release on PSFT's website mentions the value of the merger to the stockholders but makes absolutely no mention about the impact/value to its own customers.

That's because the stockholders own the company. Not the customers. If I own something and hire you to take care of it, and you sell it, I better get value out of it!

Also... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11071828)

Tom goes to the mayor and nobody cared or watched
what happened.

you can't get away! (2, Funny)

MyDixieWrecked (548719) | more than 9 years ago | (#11071884)

I have a friend who used to work for oracle, but quit because she didn't like it and now works for peoplesoft. She can't get away! ahhh!

Re:you can't get away! (0)

Napoleon Blownapart (767443) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072139)

Same thing happened to a guy I know when we were working at Deutsche Bank.

He used to sit 2 desks away from me and, when he got fed up with the job, he went to work for bankers trust.

Deutsche bank bought bankers trust and six months later he was sitting at exactly the same desk again.

Profit (0)

Napoleon Blownapart (767443) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072003)

1. Buy Peoplesoft
2. ??????
3. Profit

Not final? (1)

doodlelogic (773522) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072152)

Doesn't this require shareholder approval first? What if someone came along with a better offer?

Re:Not final? (2, Informative)

jdigital (84195) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072696)

Shareholders approved the deal at $24. Please note that almost 70% of PSFT's shareholders are currently institutional investors who have seen value in Oracle's offer for a long time. The analysts concensus is that PSFT is worth around $21/per share. So $24/share assumed some synergies. At $30/Share, ORCL could still afford the deal, but it would no longer be accretive (increase ORCL's EPS post-merger). So PSFT knew they could get away with asking for 26.50.

Just another MBA student passing through.

affordability (1)

harryoyster (814652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11072189)

If oracle made products that where affordable then they wouldnt be able to buy peoplesoft.
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