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China and its Relation With Spam

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the but-i-don't-like-spam dept.

Spam 373

smooth wombat writes "Asia Times has a nice article about why China is becoming the spam capital of the world. Steve Linford, of Spamhaus fame, is quoted several times in the article and offers some insight into how the Chinese ISPs operate. Steves quote at the end of the article pretty much sums up why China isn't doing anything to curb the hosting of spam website servers in the country: "They simply don't want to know - China Telecom doesn't care because they're government-owned and there is no pressure coming from the government. Meanwhile, our statistics on spam volumes and the number of spammers setting up in China are going up and up and up.""

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It's a good thing I don't know anyone in China (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11073999)

Since I'd never be able to get their email with their netblocks firewalled off on port 25.

LOL i ahev owned you (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074000)

slashdot is coo, but you sucks and yes lol

i have owned you. all you guys fail it and I soooooooo rule

FIRST poooooooost

let us ask INTERNET (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074120)

If we surf INTERNET, we find out you have second post. INFORMATUON SUPERHIGHWAY tells us these things.

Re:let us ask INTERNET (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074290)

NO INTARNATE IS LI-ING!! I mean shit lol you knwo i got frist psot. yup. face the thrust man lole`?

FP for china. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074003)

FP for china.

First Post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074004)

First Post

Double-sided Great Firewall (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074013)

Just block everything that comes *out* of the Great Firewall until they decide that spam is a problem. Please?

Why is this still an issue? (1)

Digital Dharma (673185) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074018)

I simply ban China and most other Asian countries at my router.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074054)

Me too, all APNIC blocks are toast and I've been modded troll/flamebait for saying so.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (1)

araczynski (265221) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074071)

ditto, screw em all. maybe if the world blocked the festering pigs they'd notice.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074115)

Then you will never escape from USA tyranny. Now it's too late, next thing you know you will commit suicide and the CIA will leave a note on your front door to call 911.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (2, Interesting)

r_cerq (650776) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074146)

Yes, well, some of us do deal with Chinese, Taiwanese, Japanese, and other Asian companies.

In case you haven't noticed, most of our high-tech toys have at least a few taiwanese or chinese components in there; Most "modded" PC cases nowadays come from China; Many American and European manufacturers sub-contract asian assembly-lines.

And, obviously, they use e-mail to communicate with us Westerners.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (1)

tacocat (527354) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074294)

And obviously you can whitelist those specific IP Addresses for those specific mail servers that you need to do business with.

If they have a problem with it, tell them to call their local sheriff, not you.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (3, Insightful)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074186)

I simply ban China and most other Asian countries at my router.

--

Ignorance is not bliss, it's annoying.

So, what's up with your sig then? Change your mind?

Honestly, I can't believe people even consider this approach. There are over 200 countries in the world, and I only know folk about 15-20 of them. Should I block the rest? Might suit for a home network, but I can't think of a multinational company that would block one of the largest population masses in the world.

Besides, most span I get is from the US, in English, selling US products, in US currency, to US people. I'd say the problem was at your end.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (2, Insightful)

Todesmetall (826497) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074200)

AFAICS this won't help to reduce the amount of spam you receive, since most of it comes from trojaned PCs with a broadband connection, these seem to be located mainly in the US, Europe and Latin America.

Your block will only prevent you from visiting the spammers' websites hosted by Chinese ISPs.

Re:Why is this still an issue? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074319)

Wrong. We see a trickle coming from US and EU zombies, china and korea are where most the zombies are.

Since you obviously don't admin an MTA, why are you offering us your 'insight' anyway?

Re:Why is this still an issue? (4, Insightful)

mcleodnine (141832) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074227)

While that will prevent SPAM that originates in China, you may want to re-think your strategy.

According to this [sophos.com] report, most of the spam comes from North America, with thanks to Zombie PCs.

Oh please... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074019)

Then how come 99% of the spam I get is in English with prices in USD?

If you want to stop spammers, stop bloody stupid Yanks from giving them money!

Psst... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074046)

People other than Americans can speak English, and no, I don't mean the British. Plenty of people in China speak English, too.

Re:Psst... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074132)

Is it their preferred language and do they normally trade in US dollars?

Re:Psst... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074178)

People frequently use English as the language of business, and if its the lanaguage you have in common with your customer, you use it. It's pretty easy to take money in dollars and convert them to something else. Even a service like Paypal allows that.

Re:Psst... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074331)

People frequently use English as the language of business, and if its the lanaguage you have in common with your customer, you use it.

So why does that apply to Chinese people selling to Chinese people? Oh right, it doesn't.

It's pretty easy to take money in dollars and convert them to something else.

At a cost. With the high number of transaction and low profit margin spammers generally operate at, this would be prohibitively expensive to do per transaction.

Face it, spam is primarily an American problem that affects the whole world.

RBL (1, Flamebait)

tacocat (527354) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074021)

Isn't there some way we can identify the entire Chinese IP block and just shut them down? If they don't care, then they can just go back to being isolationists as they have been for the past 5,000 years. They didn't mind and neither did we. But this kind of behaviour sucks.

Honestly, I can't think of anything else that could possibly be done short of forwarding all chinese spam to the UN and seeing if they can actually do ANYTHING in the next decade or so.

Re:RBL (1)

adeydas (837049) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074058)

yes every country has its own unique IP type but i doubt whether that will be of any help. usually spammers mask IP's or send spam mails from 'zombie computers' from other countries...

Re:RBL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074122)

yes every country has its own unique IP type

Every country has it's own Internet Protocol? If you meant "IP address", then you're wrong, but that is not as amusing.

Re:RBL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074315)

This is what you want:

http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-spa ce

Start with APNIC.

Too lame to link [iana.org] .

Re:RBL (-1, Flamebait)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074128)

Isn't there some way we can identify the entire Chinese IP block and just shut them down?

Funny, most of my spam comes from THE U S of A.

Should WE just block YOUR subnets? No. Don't so fucking stupid.

Yay, another thread involving China full of racist American scum*. Jeez, get with the program guys, it's the Arabs you are supposed to be hating, commies are just sooo 60's & 70's. How are your leaders supposed to make you get behind their wars if you are hating the wrong enemy. It's Eurasia fools, not Eastasia!!!

(* yes, I am aware of the irony in saying that a whole nation of people is racist)

Re:RBL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074228)

We get legit mail from the US, we get no legit mail from China, we have no business dealings with China; ergo there's no reason for ANY connection from china to pass our firewall.

How does that make anybody racist?

Re:RBL (3, Insightful)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074299)

ergo there's no reason for ANY connection from china to pass our firewall.

How does that make anybody racist?

I never said it was, just not a good solution. I did say there will be predicable racist anti-everyone-who-is-not-white anglo-saxon-prodestant ramblings on this thread because it's about China.

And sadly, I'm proven right. Take a look around...

Re:RBL (1)

AhabTheArab (798575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074259)

Should WE just block YOUR subnets?

Go ahead. If you think that will get rid of your American spam, do it. Just because some people want to block Chinese IP addresses, does not make them racist. If I get a lot of spam originating from China, and I don't visit any Chinese websites. Why wouldn't I block them?

Re:RBL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074137)

Here you go:

http://www.networkinformation.com/ip/ipindex/a/i nd exa.html

Look for everything marked "asia" and check the B and C blocks too.

Re:RBL (4, Insightful)

Jucius Maximus (229128) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074147)

"Asia Times has a nice article about why China is becoming the spam capital of the world."

Funny, I thought almost all spam originated in the US (even though it is sent via Chinese webservers.) This is confirmed in the article, btw.

Re:RBL (1)

Chundra (189402) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074169)

I have a better solution: Let's bomb them. Yeah! Take that you imperialist, commie isolationist spammers! Is there oil in China? Do they have bibles? Can we get them some bibles in Japanese or whatever language it is they speak there?

Re:RBL (0, Troll)

Neil Blender (555885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074246)

Isn't there some way we can identify the entire Chinese IP block

Here it is: 0.0.0.0/7 (7 is China's country code - deny all from this and you will receive no spam from China)

Well, okay... (4, Funny)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074032)

But I was thinking more along the lines of Yummy Hot and Spicy Chinese Spam:

SPAM(TM) Hot & Spicy Stir-Fry
Makes 6 servings

Ingredients
1/3 cup reduced-sodium teriyaki sauce
1/3 cup water
2 to 3 teaspoons HOUSE OF TSANG® MONGOLIAN FIRE® Oil
1/2 teaspoon ground ginger
1 (12-ounce) can SPAM® Lite, cubed
1 cup broccoli florets
1 cup chopped onion
1 cup pea pods
1 red bell pepper, cut into strips
1 tablespoon plus 1-1/2 teaspoons vegetable oil
1 (14-ounce) can whole baby corn, drained and cut in half
1 (7-ounce) jar mushrooms, drained
6 cups hot cooked white rice

In small bowl, combine teriyaki sauce, water, Chinese hot oil and ginger; set aside. In wok or large skillet, stir-fry SPAM®, broccoli, onion, pea pods and bell pepper in vegetable oil 2 minutes. Add teriyaki sauce mixture; cook until bubbly. Add baby corn and mushrooms; heat thoroughly. Serve over rice.

Re:Well, okay... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074232)

If you can afford red bell pepper (they cost $4/# where I live!), you can afford to not ruin it with SPAM(R). Buy some discount chicken or tofu for chrissake.

Spam from Confusious (5, Funny)

teiresias (101481) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074037)

Which is suprising considering the Government control on all things media.

From: Confusious
To: teiresias

Subject: Ancient Chinese Proverb

Body: "Increase your penis size with ginger root and secret ingredient. Act now and get a free webcam. Did I mention it make your wang huge!"

Re:Spam from Confusious (1)

dex22 (239643) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074098)

Ummm, do you have a link for that? It sounds like JUST what I need!

The source? (5, Insightful)

AndyBassTbn (789174) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074044)

Because of this, it is now meaningless to say that spam itself originates in any given place - it is truly a cyber-product.

No, I think the source has remained unchanged - the pocketbooks of those willing to actually pay for the schwag sold via SPAM email. As long as people are willing to pay for herbal Viagra, cheap mortgages, etc. based on spam, so too will spam annoy the rest of us.

Re:The source? (1, Funny)

Winkhorst (743546) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074138)

"As long as people are willing to pay for herbal Viagra...based on spam"

You mean herbal Viagra is made from Spam??! Does the FDA know about this? Why hasn't Spam started an ad campaign about this? "Eat Spam and grow large in TWO places!"

Re:The source? (5, Insightful)

jxyama (821091) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074247)

>As long as people are willing to pay for herbal Viagra, cheap mortgages, etc. based on spam, so too will spam annoy the rest of us.

not quite. spam will exist as long there are advertisers who believe there are people who are willing to pay for junk stuff based on spam. advertizing - all it takes is the belief that it's doing something, at least until the money runs dry.

Re:The source? (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074260)

Well if you look at the numbers for spam the people who are actually buying the crap is very small like 0.001% So that is 1 in a Thousand People who buy this stuff. Unfortunatly with Billions of people on the internet. That is still a lot of sales. For this population of people no amount of education reform or laws will change this. Because the 1 in a thousand person is so dumb that they will not learn from anything. What would be good is to see where there people buy the stuff so we can see where the largest population of stupid, ignorant people live.

Governments (2, Funny)

Kipsaysso (828105) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074052)

Ironically if the spammers make more money in China then the internet will be more profitable there then in a Capitalist society.

Re:Governments (1)

crazyeddie740 (785275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074089)

China *is* a Capitalist society. What they need is another communist revolution. Maybe then they could get a democracy going.

Re:Governments (1)

Omniscientist (806841) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074243)

Could you please elaborate? I fail to see how a revolution for the purpose of implementing a Communist government into its society would lead to a Democratic government being put into its society. If you were just joking, sorry!

Re:Governments (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074099)

You do know that China has a fully capitalist economy and has done for at least a decade, with reforms starting in the early eighties?

It's not exactly surprising China would be the origin for a lot of spam in the future given the world's current biggest source of spam is the workd's biggest cheerleader for capitalism [cia.gov] . Zero regulation plus the policies of ISPs since the mid-nineties = spam.

I once saw. (0, Offtopic)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074062)

Someone on /. once made comment that these spam actually oroginate from US but ISPs make them "look like the spam is coming from another country" and went on to give some 'ununderstandable' explanation. I asked for an explanation as to what he means exactly and how its done but got no answer. (I can't seem to find the link to that comment)

Re:I once saw. (1)

Transcendent (204992) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074133)

IP spoof?

Re:I once saw. (1)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074157)

I mean the ISPs. The poster said that major ISPs like msn et al did it. But I'm not sure what it was he said. Maybe something completely umimportant. It just looked interesting.

Re:I once saw. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074167)

The guy in question commited suicide and CIA left a note on his front door to call 911. If you keep asking too much questions, you'll be next. USA wouldn't resort to dirty tricks to make other countries look bad, noooo, never!

Don't remember the /. post but here's an idea (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074241)

Even without spoofing IPs, if you take control of a PC connected to a Chinese ISP, you can spam "from" there.

This can be done with or, using OS holes and illegal break-ins, without permission of the computer owner.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some Chinese making $1/day off of spammers to rent the use of their PCs.

Apostrophe? (nit-pick warning) (1)

lukewarmfusion (726141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074066)

Steves quote...

Or lack thereof...

no mail of value (5, Insightful)

lophophore (4087) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074081)

I get no mail of any value from China. I don't know anybody there. So I don't feel bad about automatically trashing all mail that originates in Chinese netblocks. It's amazing the effect that has had on what spam I actually see.

If everybody did this, it could become a real problem for the Chinese. (duh)

Re:no mail of value (2, Insightful)

glesga_kiss (596639) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074252)

I get no mail of any value from China. I don't know anybody there. So I don't feel bad about automatically trashing all mail that originates in Chinese netblocks.

What if you had a friend traveling over there, that had to get in touch with you? Or someones company switches hosting to a .cn company. Or a mail gets relayed through a .cn mail server as the regular one is down for maintainence?

I guess you'll never know. Oh, your mom called; you didn't reply to her mail about the free first-class tickets she was going to send you to visit her; so you missed out.

Re:no mail of value (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074262)

In China people know they are being oppressed, so they're thinking of ways to get freedom. In USA people think they have freedom, yet they keep self-censoring each other in fear of possibly offending some soccer mom somewhere. Keep netblocking your freedom and one day your turn will come to commit suicide with CIA leaving a note on your door to call 911.

I get Chinese Spam... (1)

Uptown Joe (819388) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074093)

and then I'm hungry for more 2 hours later.

Re:I get Chinese Spam... (1)

YOU FAIL IT(it being (839911) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074191)

YOU FAIL IT(it being the duration of time in which you get hungry again.)

Is it just me (1)

jbich (819618) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074094)

or are those silly bastards who do the "first poooooooooost" thing almost as annoying as getting 1500 variations of "hot, wet, young asian delight" in my email box every day?

Let's re-route all of our chinese spam to those guys.

ASFAIK (1, Insightful)

Dasch (832632) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074095)

... The US is still the main exporter of SPAM...

That makes it easy on me... (1)

Transcendent (204992) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074103)

...I just started blocking IP subnets from china...

Actually, after reviewing logs on my firewall I found a lot of brute force attacks coming from Korea, and only a few from China, so most subnets blocked are Korean owned. But, needless to say, I'm spam free.

Re:That makes it easy on me... (1)

0racle (667029) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074192)

I had some problems on and off for a week or two with a few addresses in Japan. Only like an hour at a time and was no match for my OpenBSD pf and my fantastic (simple) ruleset. It was a few hours at a time, then began to trail off. Not really anythnig to block a whole subnet for, don't you think you might be overreacting a little.

What goes around, comes around... (4, Interesting)

Zocalo (252965) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074296)

I pretty much have all of China (and a few other countries) blacklisted, in the case of China this is both at the .cn ccTLD domain and their IP allocations from APNIC. Yes, it's draconian, but I can (and do) permit specific IPs if need be and it keeps the spam *way* down. If enough people were to do this, especially at ISP level, then that's going to start having an impact of the ability of Chinese companies to trade with the rest of the world. Should that happen, how long do you think it would take for the Chinese government to take notice, and subsequently some action?

Of course, that's when the payback happens, because it's going to take more than a promise to be good to convince many admins to remove a blacklist entry, null route, or whatever. It basically boils down to a choice between quick money from dodgy spammers now, or long-term money from serious business investments further down the road. At the moment, it sure looks like the Japanese are the only ones that have really grasped the concept of long term business plans being better than cash now; tomorrow's problems belong to someone else.

Is there any reason accept mail from China? (2, Insightful)

RealAlaskan (576404) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074110)

Is there any reason not to ban all mail originating from (or relayed through) addresses in China? I supose that big universities have a lot of students who use email to keep in touch with family in China, but most ISPs could probably do this without any harm to their customers.

If you were willing to put some effort into it, you could combine it with a whitelist, which would allow your Chinese customers to get email from the old country.

Wait a minute ... effort, ISP ... those two don't go together. Ok, never mind about the whitelist.

Re:Is there any reason accept mail from China? (1)

mzwaterski (802371) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074253)

You are suggesting that ISPs as a rule block all mail from China...doesn't that seem to go against the connectiveness that the internet provides? One of the great things about the internet is that I can send an email to a client in China as easily and for the same price as sending an email to a client in the US. I don't think blocking all mail from China is a viable solution at the ISP level. Now, at the user level, you might have a point. I wouldn't mind having my personal email block all mail from China.

This is a good thing (1)

sfjoe (470510) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074111)


Keeping all the criminals in one place (China) is great. I blocklist all of China, Taiwan and Korea and don't have to worry about these trespassers. I do feel sorry for those folks that have to communicate with them, but just consider it the price of doing business.

Racist kneejerk:This is a good thing (0, Troll)

Staplerh (806722) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074213)

Obviously, you did not read the article. Perhaps I am being too harsh - perhaps you did read the article, and found it to reinforce your pre-existing prejudicial views towards the Far East. I quote from the article.

The spam chain is complex. Basically, though, most people responsible for sending spam are based in the US, though a growing number are now organized criminals in Eastern Europe and Russia. China is the location of choice for the servers that host the spammers' websites and for buying and selling lists of spam zombies, or personal computers (PCs) deliberately infected with spam-enabling viruses.

The criminals, as you so derisively call the citizens of these far-east countries, are using the Chinese as middlemen. Yes, this makes them accomplices, but using such inflammatory satements such as criminals, trespassors is rediculous.

It is fortunate that you don't have to communicate with those countries, because I would assume with neanderthal views such as your own you would have very little to contribute to any intelligent conversation.

Re:This is a good thing (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074287)

Unless you have customers who are in china.

Will it stop with "IPv9"? (1)

catalax (826962) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074116)

Probably it will stop when the Chinese govenment introduces their own "IPv9 [slashdot.org] " network protocol to have better control about what is good for their citizens and what is not.

"Spam Capital" (1)

Hank Chinaski (257573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074118)

"Asia Times has a nice article about why China is becoming the spam capital of the world. " You forgot to mention which country is the spam capital of the world now ... the U.S. And why is that? Because the ISP are privately owned and there is no pressure coming from above?

There is pressure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074156)

If an ISP in the United States, or other competitive markets, acts as a home for spammers, they get cut off from many other ISPs. The legitimate customers of the ISP find they can no longer send email to a large number of other people. They either find out why (spam) or don't, but regardless, they're likely to jump to another ISP, one that allows them to send email to the people they want. Spammer ISP finds itself with a bunch of spammers, but the inability to send email to a bunch of people. At this point, even the spammers give up on the ISP, and without any customers, it dies.

A government mandated/socialized ISP doesn't have to face this problem. It will always have customers.

howto (1)

Camel Pilot (78781) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074131)

5 mod point to the person who provide a link or describes how to block the chinese ip net block.

Re:howto (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074190)

For sendmail, edit your access file with lines like this:

connect:60.16 550 Chinese SMTP traffic must be whitelisted. Visit www.mysite.com

China occupies tons of IP space, mainly in 60.*, 61.*, 202.*, 210.*, 219.*

While you're at it, it's not a bad idea to block Korea too.

Here you go (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074224)

http://www.okean.com/asianspamblocks.html [okean.com] - Detailed blocks so you get fewer innocents.

Oh, and for iptables (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074302)

Easy to cut and paste format [okean.com] . It's not directly linked from the other blocklists, but it's in the sitemap.

Re:howto (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074233)

echo "ALL: .cn" >>/etc/hosts.deny

The only way to go after spam (2, Insightful)

hsmith (818216) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074135)

is go after the companies that sell their products through spam. outlaw that as an advertising form, fine companies that advertise through them and you have your solution

This is why China net block is blackholed... (1)

MSFanBoi (695480) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074136)

I've already blackholed any mail coming from the Chinese net blocks. I don't worry about SPAM from them at all.

Blocking Chinese IPs not always the solution (3, Insightful)

hellfire (86129) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074140)

Only two dozen posts in and I see half of them appear to suggest blocking email from China. This is a good individual solution on an ISP by ISP basis but not a good universal solution. Businesses have to deal with other businesses in China, and well there are plenty of families who legitimately want to email from China to the US and back.

Any solution that involves blocking everything from China won't work for everyone, and every solution that tries to selectively opt in or selectively block from China is a greater expense to set up.

Considering most of the spam originating from China is poured into the US, and the money's paid to the ISPs are money flowing from out of the US economy and into China's, I hardly think they will care any time soon.

Re:Blocking Chinese IPs not always the solution (1)

pavera (320634) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074212)

Blocking all traffic from china while draconian, will fix the problem faster than anything else. If china can no longer do business with the US because of their spam policies, the business sector in china will quickly put pressure on the gov't to change the situation and it will change.

Re:Blocking Chinese IPs not always the solution (1)

gad_zuki! (70830) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074214)

Its an old-fashioned boycott. Once the ISPs begin to freak out that no one is getting their mail or able to access their sites then it might change their mind in regards to policing spam.

I'm all for it as a temporary "show of force" solution.

Re:Blocking Chinese IPs not always the solution (1)

fmaxwell (249001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074309)

Only two dozen posts in and I see half of them appear to suggest blocking email from China.

I suggested blocking all traffic. If they want to host spammers' web sites, then block web traffic. If they want to communicate over IRC with zombie machines to send spam, then block IRC. Just block everything for a week and watch the sudden interest on the part of China to deal with the spam problem.

This is a good individual solution on an ISP by ISP basis but not a good universal solution. Businesses have to deal with other businesses in China, and well there are plenty of families who legitimately want to email from China to the US and back.

So what? Make it tough on businesses, families, and everyone else and then there will be pressure to address the spam problem. I don't really give a rat's ass if some company incurs inconvenience and added expense when dealing with China. Maybe they will choose to stop doing business with Chinese firms until the spam blockade is lifted. China needs the west more than the west needs China, from an economic standpoint. They rely on exports to survive.

Any solution that involves blocking everything from China won't work for everyone, and every solution that tries to selectively opt in or selectively block from China is a greater expense to set up.

Blocking trade with Cuba doesn't "work for everyone," but we do it anyway. There's no reason that China can't be knocked off of the net (at least for traffic to/from the U.S.).
These namby-pamby attempts to keep from inconveniencing people are counter-productive. You get action when you inconvenience lots of people.

Spam? (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074145)

When I hear the word SPAM I reach for my 9mm...... and just hope I don't grab a tin opener instead.....

The solution is simple... (-1, Flamebait)

fmaxwell (249001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074158)

If we want to put an end to the spam from China, stop routing their data. Knock them off of the Internet and their citizens will demand that the problem be addressed. This is easy: Make it illegal for U.S. companies to move Internet traffic from China. A traceroute to www.chinanet.cn.net shows that the data is being moved through Sprintlink. Shut those pipes down and the problem will be handled. Let China go back to telephones and faxes for their communications with the U.S. and they will do something about the spam problem.

Re:The solution is simple... (1)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074219)

If we want to put an end to the spam from China, stop routing their data. Knock them off of the Internet and their citizens will demand that the problem be addressed.

Given the PRC government's (not to be confused with the legitimate government of the Republic of China in exile in Taipei) methods [christusrex.org] for dealing the the people demanding anything, I don't think that's too likely.

the Chinese Gov't would like that (1)

davidwr (791652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074293)

Knock China off the net you say?

Hehe, the Chinese Government would call that a good solution to the twin problems of "evil ideas" coming into China over the wire and "dissident communication" getting out.

OK, seriously, I'm surprised China doesn't have two-way filtering on port 25 and other ports, blocking anything that doesn't promote Beijing's ideals.

And I for one, (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074165)

Welcome our Chinese Spamming overlords.

Solution? Bounce with the 550 power. (5, Interesting)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074168)

> "They simply don't want to know - China Telecom doesn't care because they're government-owned and there is no pressure coming from the government.

550 - Thank you for your support of the steganographic communications payment protocol.
550 - Your continued support of Falun Dafa [Falun Gong] in the face of continued oppression from the butchers of Beijing is appreciated.
550 - The following token shall constitute both a receipt for your payment and a public key with which you may send your next message to your allies in the resistance.
550 - KEYBLOCK 6x5 F81IZ FOLG3 VOLSX CIOP3 F7JJ2 EYMNX

Now, is it my fault if my crontab edits the last line of that message to a different series of random characters every 30 seconds? Is it my fault if the owner of the spam-relaying machine is... dealt with... in the name of protecting his fellow citizens from mysticism and supersition?

Hmm, I suppose it is.

But hey, there's a critical shortage of corneal and kidney transplants. And a critical oversupply of server administrators who support spammers. I'm just the invisible hand of the market, smoothing out the discrepancies.

LOL funny! Insightful too! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074328)

out of mod points :(

My standard response (4, Funny)

acceleriter (231439) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074172)

to a Chinese originated spam or to a Chinese spamvertised website. Since they ignore reports and are happy to collect spammers' dollars, I figure the outside chance one might get a bullet to the head is the best that can be hoped for:
(first in probably very bad Chinese, thanks to Babelfish)


Dear Spamhaus,

You have won our promotion in the FREE TIBET, Falun Gong, Remember Tiananmen, rebellion against the Glorious Communist State Sweepstakes!

The number on the bullet (free to you, billed to your family), which will hopefully go through your head when the censors in your godless heathen illegitimate bastard country who can filter out everything except spam see this, is 7417.

Congratulations!

So much for the Great Firewall of China.. (1)

d_jedi (773213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074203)

You mean they don't check outgoing e-mails, which might have anti-Communist content? Gasp!

Multilingual spam (1)

antifoidulus (807088) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074215)

Slightly off topic, but do people here seem to have a problem with getting spam in every language under the sun?
So far I have receieved spam in:
Chinese
Russian
German
Urdu(Maybe, I'm not sure what it was, something that looked south Asian)
French
and Japanese(which recently has been almost every day all about the same thing, some girl meeting club or something, probably run by the Yakuza)
I have only been to a country that speaks one of those languages, and yet I get spam in all of them, fascinating.....maybe because I have an easily searchable university address...

What I do... (1)

trudyscousin (258684) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074250)

I have no family, contacts, or business in China. I do not speak Mandarin or Cantonese or any other Chinese dialect. There are no domestic businesses, as far as I know, whose Web content is hosted in China.

It therefore does me no harm whatsoever to blacklist the entire country. Using blackholes.us as a foundation, I built procmail rules to accomplish this. Whenever the occasional spam message of Chinese origin reaches me, I make another change to the rules. As it is, my procmail.log shows fifteen to forty-five spam messages a day from China being routed to /dev/null.

I realize this isn't a suitable solution for everyone, but it's done a pretty fair job for me.

Hypocrites (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074256)

I live in Australia. Many of our network blocks are filtered (whole /8s) by American network owners because they include some spammers from China. We all hear about China being a big source of spam, but the fact remains that the United States of America originates the most spam.

Can we null-route Florida yet?

Source: http://www.spamhause.org [spamhaus.org]

It's all part of their firwall plan (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074265)

The Chinese government turning a blind eye to spam is all part of their national firewall initiative. Instead of the Chinese government trying to block all undesired outbound traffic, they instead let the spam situation get out of hand. This in turn will cause all major ISPs to block *all* traffic from China.

In effect, if you're in China on a Chinese ISP, the only place you can 'go' is to another Chinese ISP, and the government won't need to worry about keeping up to date with their national firewall!

It's Brilliant!!!

Makes it easier to block (1)

GuardianKnight (80165) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074268)

I'm glad it's all going to china. It will make it REALLY easy to block the SPAM.

Set Firewall to block all port 25 connections from Asia based IP addresses.

Maybe I have an over simplistic view on the matter.

Blocking China and other rogue IP space (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074282)

In addition to blocking spam, we mod our /etc/hosts.allow to keep these systems from connecting to many services:

ALL:61.0.0.0/255.0.0.0:deny
ALL:62.0.0.0/255.0. 0.0:deny
ALL:80.0.0.0/255.0.0.0:deny
ALL:81.0.0. 0/255.0.0.0:deny
ALL:82.0.0.0/255.0.0.0:deny ..etc..

It's better to block, then individually authorize. Most of the Chinese IPs are not only spamming, but constantly probing for vulnerabilities in SSL, SSH, FTP and other services.

Simple... (-1, Troll)

pair-a-noyd (594371) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074289)

Nuke China. End of MANY problems..

It's WAR! (1)

Dark Coder (66759) | more than 9 years ago | (#11074292)

Time to declare an all-out Internet WAR!

Now, if someone can translate the "Arts of War" into for Internet uses, we'd win.

Jack.D.Ripper (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074311)

As Brig.Gen Jack.D.Ripper would have said:

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration,
Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and theinternational Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

What bugs me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11074330)

Isn't why companies selling their products via spam aren't taken to court........ especialy with overwhelming evidence (over 20 million copies).

One purchase of a coughextendercough by some authority, and when the parcel comes the sender can be taken to court........ if not spamming itself but even for claming that herbal viagra causes "little johnny to grow"..... especialy entertaining if a woman gets that spam......
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