Illegal File Trading Draws Two P2P Raids In Europe 816
had3l writes "Police in Finland raided the operation of a popular Bit Torrent site and arrested 34 people, 30 of which were volunteers who helped moderate the site. This comes right after the MPAA reported that it would start suing tracker servers." An anonymous reader points to a story (currently at the top of RespectP2P.org's homepage) about the raid yesterday morning of Dutch eDonkey sites Releases4u and Shareconnector.
Tin Foil (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Tin Foil (Score:2)
Re:Tin Foil (Score:2)
I download TV shows (Score:5, Insightful)
I have a special circumstance though. I live out in the middle of no where. I don't get broadcast TV except on one station...I do on the other hand get high-speed DSL.
Now I COULD get Comcast cable, but since I only watch 4 tv shows a week, I'm not going to be paying 50 bucks a month (yes, 50 bucks here even for just plain basic). Not to mention Comcast likes to raise their rates at the drop of a hat.
Dish services are also out because the number of trees they can't get a good signal, I've tried. SO that leaves me with downloading these TV shows.
But what the TV networks are missing out on is that THEY should offer torrents of their shows right from their web pages. If they throw in the regular commercials how is this different than just watching it over the airwaves? I would download them in a heartbeat and gladly watch their commercials if they did this. Why are so uptight about this? They should be like "hell, download all you wish and trade them with your friends...as long as the commercials are still there we're still making our money...and we could also target advertising better for people that download and that could generate even more money blah blah blah..."
Movies though, I don't download at all. Never have, never will.
Re:I download TV shows (Score:4, Insightful)
Again, if they were just to provide them on their websites, more people could view them...AND they could even get an accurate figure of how many people are watching these shows then a "Nielsen Family".
But hey, guess I'm a criminal...lock me up.
Re:I download TV shows (Score:3, Informative)
The fact that you can check a book out from the library does not give me the right to print copies of that book and distribute them for free.
Re:Tin Foil (Score:3, Insightful)
I think that's right. There is nothing inherently wrong about copying media for your personal enjoyment. In Canada I even pay my blank recording media levvy, so I already know that all artists are being compensated -- I feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with downloading pictures, music, and videos.
The things I download
Set themselves up for this (Score:5, Interesting)
Idiots.
Re:Set themselves up for this (Score:3, Interesting)
The 'common carrier defense' does not hold, as it is publishing, not carrying, what is going on. For the same reason, a newspaper cannot publish all ads regardless of content, defending themselves by saying they have a policy of not checking them.
Why spend days downloading movies (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe I'm just lucky, but where I live I can get 14 movies delivered a week with Netflix's 8 movies at a time plan.
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:2, Flamebait)
I have a couple reasons why:
1. I don't want to be on a monthly payment plan ($17.99 or something) where I have to get 7 movies in that month in order to be paying less than renting the movies at the video store.
2. Netflix's commercials annoy me. Standing in line at a store? Who the fuck does that? I have never waited to rent a movie and honestly, putting them into the mail takes longer for me than does goin
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:5, Insightful)
I have no problem paying a monthly payment plan as long as I'm getting movies that I want. 66 cents per movie is cheap whether it is paid monthly or not.
"Netflix's commercials annoy me."
All commercials annoy me. But I still buy products regardless.
"Downloading movies is free. 66 cents each still costs more than downloading them."
But you're downloading crap. I'm getting the actual movie and can rip it myself, with all the menus, audio tracks, and bonus material intact. You never know what you're getting when you've wasted the time to download.
"They come in a format that is all ready to be played on your computer (if you so desire) instead of having to wait to convert the 4GB to that format yourself."
You don't consider the time spent downloading it waiting?! It' takes me about ten minutes to rip the DVD to my hard drive. Can you really download an entire movie in ten minutes?!
Downloading is not free. (Score:2)
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:2)
For an avid movie watcher (and I consider 6 movies a month avid) I can't see the need to pay a monthly fee EVERY MONTH when I might not be receiving enough movies for it to be worth it.
All commercials annoy me. But I still buy products regardless.
That's your problem. I refuse to support a company that I find annoying.
But you're downloading crap. I'
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:5, Insightful)
That's fine, use the video store like you said you do.
2. Netflix's commercials annoy me. Standing in line at a store? Who the fuck does that? I have never waited to rent a movie and honestly, putting them into the mail takes longer for me than does going to the video store that's less than two miles away.
Most people live closer to a mailbox (usually their own mailbox) than a video store.
3. Downloading movies is free. 66 cents each still costs more than downloading them.
You missed the key point... Netflix is legitimate and legal, but downloading (for free) almost never is. Plus depending on your internet connection speed and the server's download speed, it could take a lot of time or effort to download the movie. You could work an hour fixing someone's computer and charge $20 and rent 4x $5 movies, but I doubt you could find and download good quality versions of 4 movies in an hour. Plus if you're looking for unpopular movies, it would be very difficult to find them.
4. They come in a format that is all ready to be played on your computer (if you so desire) instead of having to wait to convert the 4GB to that format yourself.
Your computer can't play DVD's? Why not? If you have a DVD drive to rip them, then you have a DVD drive to play them. (and yes Linux machines can too [digital-digest.com]).
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:2)
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:2)
1. Netflix is not available
2. Downloading is legal, copying rented movies isn't
3. Bandwidth is cheaper than renting movies
FWIW, I rent my movies.
Days? (Score:2)
Two things - early access and TV (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Why spend days downloading movies (Score:2)
Ars3 Hum0r (Score:5, Funny)
Emphasis mine but "Ass." is theirs.
WinMX warnings (Score:5, Informative)
On WinMX (which isn't as good as it used to be, which is why I dare mention it on
"The Recording Industry Association of Japan has noticed that you are sharing files whose names match artists or recordings owned by our members. You are reminded that such..." and so on and so on.
I got a couple of these in one day -- haven't run WinMX recently though so I don't know if they are still happening. It would be interesting to try sharing only files with ASCII names and see if that makes a difference.
How do we Fix this P2P problem? (Score:3, Interesting)
Because of Greed: No (Score:3, Informative)
They pitch it as "Own it today" like you would a book but don't want you to copy it.
So that means they are Licensing it but they will not recognize that you have already
paid for your license when the media fails or gets lost.
Either way they will loose:
-If they loose control: They will get less $ for their movies.
-If they get absolute control: People will start making their own movies and will get NO $.
From the article... (Score:2)
"Ass. of America"? Hmmm. I doubt that was unintentional...
Insert Comment... (Score:3, Funny)
TV Torrents (Score:5, Insightful)
A recent example is that a friend of mine missed last week's episode of her favorite show, ER. I got a torrent the next day and burned her a DVD.
I wish that type of usage was considered "fair use" but it's not.
Re:TV Torrents (Score:2)
I haven't been downloading much lately just because I have DirecTV and Tivo now but I downloaded this week's Simpsons' and Arrested Development episodes because they were both preempted by Survivor's off-night finale bullshit.
Fox should be fucking thrilled that I am watching their shows and would go so far as to download the episodes to keep current.
I really do
Re:TV Torrents (Score:5, Funny)
I bet she still won't sleep with you, though..
BREIN (Score:3, Interesting)
Next time I bring my camera with me, I will film the commercial
The Wild West (Score:5, Insightful)
I disagree.
This represents the wild west nature finally becoming complete.
Previously the internet was a place of lawlessness.
Now it's still a place of lawlessness, but on top of this we have little tyrannies, where those rare people with lawyers can make anything they want happen just by issuing threats and governments can take things out at will without having to worry about pesky things like jurisdiction, right or courts. Like the wild west, where on top of the chaos it was overlaid that if whatever self-appointed lawman felt like it you would get hanged or shot for no reason at all.
Perhaps this comes down to how you define the word "laws"; after all, there have been many times throughout justice where "law" meant nothing but the imposed will on a subjugated populace of a bunch of armed thugs. But I think laws imply justice. I see none of this coming to the internet, only the raw exercise of naked power.
Re:The Wild West (Score:5, Insightful)
Sounds like a great future for the internet.
Re:The Wild West (Score:5, Insightful)
The "Last frontier" is just about over. This Wild West as you put it is now becoming the new medium for corporations. Again.
The last nail will be when censorship laws (to protect the children) and Palladium authenication becomes law. Or even the bit-tax. It won't take long until doing anythign worthwhile online will cost through the nose, and the content bullies finally push away their 'competition'. Maybe it'll take a $1000 license to own a web site, much like trying to do anything with radio waves.
Waste of time (Score:5, Interesting)
Time for the record labels and movie studios to wake up to themselves - they are alienating a large part of their support base. All the expenses of lobbying various governments around the world, and the associated legal fees around every case is being paid for, and funded by consumers who purchase their records!
They should listen to the overpaid Robbie Williams, who said something along the lines of "I dont care, I am rich, if yo uwant my music, just download it!" (He said this in 2002 - I can't find an online source).
Re:Waste of time (Score:3, Interesting)
Are they really? I mean, you'd expect it right ... but is this a truism, or just modern legend and wishful thinking on your part? Does anyone have any stats to back up this claim?
I've seen a lot of people state when asked, that if they download tracks and like them then they go and buy the Album. That the justification for free downloads is try-and-buy. Do the actions of the
Official statement by Finnish police (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Official statement by Finnish police (Score:5, Informative)
The case involves the distribution of copyrighted material using the BitTorrent-p2p application, which is used to share files between users. Registration is required to access the network [Sic, they are mixing up finreactor with bt]. When a user downloads material on offer, he also becomes a distributor for other users who are downloading the file. The maximum penalty for an intellectual property crime is two years' imprisonment, and these kinds of crimes often involve payment for damages.
Distributed materials included among other things films, music, software and games for a total of about 6000 titles. One title may have contained for example a single CD, the entire back catalog of an artist or several films. The network has been used to distribute material worth many millions of euros.
Four administrators and 30 moderators are from around Finland are suspected of maintaining the network. The network has had an estimated 10 000 users, presumably all Finnish.
The early investigative part of the case will take many months.
Apologies for the awkward translation. Don't know the equivalent legal terms in English that well so some meanings are probably lost. Don't turn me in for pilfering their text.
Reporting in the media. (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Reporting in the media. (Score:3, Informative)
"What's completely, utterly amazing that there hasn't been a single mention of the incident in the news of any of the tv channels, nor anything in the major papers either."
Yes, there was.
"Makes you suspect that the police might actually be controlling any reporting on the subject?"
No, it doesn't.
"Guess that's it for truly independent mass media in Finland."
Troll.
PR Blitz! (Score:2, Interesting)
Remember: Moderating on websites may impact your criminal record.
A Vaild Argument? (Score:5, Interesting)
Why police? (Score:2)
If the industry wants to sue someone that's civil action as I understand it.
Are the police becoming the henchmen for the corporations? Man, that would scare the shit out of me.
Maybe the cops should be, oh I dunno... stopping dangerous people, who carry out assault, rape, murder, abductions... nah, that's too ea
Re:Why police? (Score:2)
They took money ('donations') for access to the site. That makes it a crime. With max 2 years in the can, plus any damages to the studios/software companies.
But you are right, the case does have lots of question marks. Basically it'a test case for Finland. If it ultimately goes nowhere, expect tighter laws as an answer.
that certainly answers one question (Score:5, Interesting)
I have to ask, since the article points out that police are also striking at eDonkey servers, when the cops are going to be knocking on my door. My son and half the kids in his dorm are swapping/swiping movies like crazy with eDonkey. All of a sudden it looks like I have to get knowledgable about my liability when he brings his computer home for the Christmas break.
Re:that certainly answers one question (Score:3, Insightful)
You'll want to ask him if he is or not, it's not that hard - I set up a BT tracker on my campus LAN, and restricted IP access to only those from campus. Result: Very fast, semi-trusted file sharing network.
--J
Re:that certainly answers one question (Score:3, Informative)
And in this case there is a small critical detail - cops have proof that the admins took money ('donations') for access to the tracker.
Basically, indirectly, they were selling warez.
Selling warez is bad.
Re:that certainly answers one question (Score:3, Insightful)
File swapping on eDonkey is not the same thing as running an eDonkey server. The network uses an architecture similar to napster, where there are numerous central servers that hold a cache of the list of files their clients are sharing and send back IPs that match any reques
Maybe this is the MPAA's version of... (Score:2)
Find a way to sue the the advertisers (Score:2, Insightful)
Few major details (Score:5, Informative)
- By Finnish law, the crime becomes 'tekijänoikeusrikos' instead of 'rikkomus' when money is involved. The difference is that for the lesser crime, maximum penalty is just fines - and I doubt police could even get search warrants for the lesser offense.
But in this case since money is involved, and prosecution will claim that there was a goal for financial gain, and it becomes a bigger crime (max 2 years in the can). And suddenly it's easy for the police to get all the details they need from ISPs & search warrants for the busts.
So in other words: Taking money (even if it's just 'donations' to cover tracker bandwidth) is a nice way to get your ass in jail.
The case does have few murky details - they cannot prosecute everyone (over 10000 users supposedly), and distributing the
Translations for parent (Score:5, Informative)
"rikkomus" == misdemeanour
The police must think they have grounds for proving this is a crime, a misdemeanour wouldn't be sufficient to warrant seizing equipment.
It isn't actually illegal (yet) for a natural person to copy material for personal use in Finland, but making it available is. This affects the users.
Secondly, the administrators were aware of and facilitating illegal activity. If you know about illegal activity and don't report it, you're alredy over the line.
The money aspect is probably the biggest issue here.
I've read suggestions that some users' machines were trojaned by a security company employed by the entertainment industry to help gather evidence. If this is true it could add an interesting spin. If this was illegal it won't nullify the evidence (as in the US) but could be very bad publicity for the entertainment industry at the very least.
Re:Few major details (Score:4, Interesting)
Doesn't matter if one actually gained something, but if something is done with an expectation of getting financial gain out of it, then it's a much more serious crime.
Asking for donations alone might be very borderline, but in this case those donations also gave you perks (I *think* better status as a downloader even if you just leeched. not sure, wasn't an user. based on hearsay).
In which case prosecuters can easily spin it as at a thinly veiled attempt to hide 'pay us for (more / easier to get) warez' deal, which definitely means that the admins had in mind a goal of financial gain. Doesn't matter where the money was supposed to be used (hosting fees). Admins got money. 'Financial Gain'. Tough.
There is actually a test case from way back (the time of BBSes. You know - modems - 14.4K HST tech) where a BBS was selling 'bytes' (pay money, get to leech X bytes of latest warez). I don't have idea of the exact resolution of the case, but I do know the sysop of that BBS at least ended up paying sizeable reparations to the companies who sued him (Adobe, MS, Autodesk etc.. the usual BSA members). I don't think he ended up in the jail, but it sure made a huge hole in his pocket. And that case was clearly 'with goal of financial gain'.
It should also be noted that nobody as far as I know has been prosecuted in Finland for piracy unless;
- There is selling / money involved (for example, selling bootleg CDs/DVDs)
or
- Pirated software was used by a company for business use (Say, a company using pirated AutoCAD to save money)
Remember their true goals (Score:3, Informative)
They dream of the day when no one owns physical media, but instead pays a per use fee to listen or view media.
Also, as long as I can't rent Troma movies at BlockBuster I'm gonna find them on P2P networks. Oh, and if it's not utter garbage I wind up buying them.
Mistranslation (Score:2, Informative)
Register or someone else mistranslated original text. They are suspecting 4 admins plus 30 "powerusers", nobody has been arrested yet. Yesterday police raided admins' houses and seized their computers.
Apparently putting "donations" button to tracker-page got them badly screwed, since now they're were getting direct or indirect monetary benefit for running
Ah, but they DID have the copyrighted content (Score:3, Interesting)
One argument I see again and again with this, is that "they never possessed the original copyrighted materials, only the torrent file", but that isn't entirely true.
In order to create the .torrent file, you have to have the full original source material. Someone had the original source material (movie, dvd, software, game, etc.) and created the .torrent file from that source material. This person then must have given that .torrent file to the tracker server itself (or the person who created the .torrent is running the tracker themselves).
In fact, since the .torrent file has to directly contain the URL of the tracker itself, you can't simply "upload" the .torrent to a tracker and have it function, unless you know the exact tracker URL that server uses to host its torrent files. If you want to put a .torrent on 10 trackers, you have to create 10 separate .torrent files. You can't reuse the same .torrent file for all 10 trackers.
This means the tracker operator and the people providing torrents are collaborating in some way, or the tracker is publishing its tracker URL to facilitate people creating torrent files for it, from copyrighted source materials.
Its a little greyer than originally thought.
Re:Ah, but they DID have the copyrighted content (Score:3, Informative)
You are wrong.
I take it you've never heard of multi-tracker torrent files.
Using "announce-list" is an extensio
This is for the best, really (Score:4, Interesting)
What if George Washington had been captured and executed by the British? Was the Revolution de-centralized enough to survive his loss? Is America's democracy de-centralized enough to survive the poor quality of Diebolds voting machines?
Stuff like this will benefit change, not only in America, but in China and Iran, as well. In those countries, the kids in the universities might be apprehended and clubbed to death by the Moral Police, at any given minute. But with sufficient security and de-centralization, they can still communicate with the outside world. Enough to possibly, one day, bring decent living conditions to the culture of power which uses and discards people as you would a tool.
This is a good thing. Good changes have never come easy, or with a consensus.
I'm still waiting for Palladium. I think that will be one of the best changes, for the good of all Humanity.
Re:This is for the best, really (Score:4, Insightful)
I agree with you there. But...
What we are talking about here is THEFT.
No. We are talking about copyright infringement, which---despite publishers' propaganda---is not even remotely the same thing. Copyright infringement ought to be a purely civil (not criminal) matter.
Illegally downloading copyrighted materials discourages the creation of high-quality materials. It reduces the overall value of the knowledge base our society can develop and provide access to.
Maybe, maybe not. The privilege (not right) of copyright was created to encourage authorship, but it is not necessary for high-quality works to exist, as demonstrated by all of human culture from prehistory until 200--300 years ago.
Slashdot's comment boards would be a WHOLE lot better if each poster was accurately marked with age, employment status, and whether or not the poster is living with his parents.
35, yes, no.
Re:This is for the best, really (Score:3, Insightful)
Hmm.. I don't think there's anything artifical about ownership of physical things. People have things that they consider theirs, and if anyone challenges them then they will fight for it. That's about as natural as it gets..
Our entire system of laws is based around artificial constructs. For example, "rights" are an artificial construct.
Ah, yes. I completely agree with
Re:This is for the best, really (Score:4, Insightful)
I own over 300 DVDs.
and so, I say to you, get off your high horse.
I download from time to time, but I see more movies in the theater and buy more DVDs than any 5 people I know combined. Do I always buy/go see what I download? Hell no. Sometimes the movies suck. But I do if they're worth it.
Raid in france (Score:2, Informative)
ALPA (french RIAA) - with the RIAA help, and police today closed a bittorrent hosting site (http://torrent.youceff.com) holding many copyrighted movies.
That site was hosted in France and a court order was sent to catch peoples using the service at the same time - it seems they logged 160000 unique IPs.
Under local lows, the site admin can get up to 3 years of jail + an up to 300000 fine.
In 100 years... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:In 100 years... (Score:4, Insightful)
In 100 years, who says you will be allowed access those history books?
Re:In 100 years... (Score:3, Insightful)
Wrong, wrong, wrong. Ideas CANNOT be copyrighted, only the expression of an idea can. This is a VERY important distinction to understand and clearly you do not. Once I've fixed my expression of an idea in a tangible form it's mine. You can still express this very same idea in a different way and not violate my copyright. A great example of this is the way Pixar and Dreamworks both did films about ants. A Bug's Life and Antz both told the
Re:In 100 years... (Score:4, Insightful)
All of these ideas have a cost generated with producing them and real people, rather than faceless entities, that earn a living from their production. Anyone can have an idea, to dismiss all things as mere ideas once work is done to convert them into something more tangible, de-values the work of the people that carried it out.
The logic conclusion of your hypothesis is that the distribution of idea and derived works should be free regardless of the wish of the creator. I am assuming because of some right of the individual to those ideas and derived works. What of the rights of the creator?
Question for legitimate P2P users (Score:4, Interesting)
Let's face it, there are a lot of people out there who are using P2P to illegally acquire and distribute copywrited materials.
P2P is being threatened, not only by corporate executives and ignorant congresscritters, but by people who abuse the technology. P2P will be outlawed outright unless the legitimate users of P2P networks start policing their own.
How? Well that's a good question. A willingness to admit that there is a problem would be a good place to start.
Re:Question for legitimate FTP users (Score:3, Interesting)
Let's face it, there are a lot of people out there who are using FTP to illegally acquire and distribute copywrited [sic] materials.
FTP is being threatened, not only by corporate executives and ignorant congresscritters, but by people who abuse the technology. FTP could be outlawed outright unless the legitimate users of the FTP protocol start policing their own. Couldn't it?
(In case it's not obvious, the above is sarcasm. Neither FTP nor P2P is in any danger of being
The worlds biggest tracker... (Score:3, Informative)
Devil's advocate...sorta... (Score:3, Insightful)
Interesting (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem as the RIAA/MPAA sees it, with regards to file sharing, is not that you are depriving them of profits or that you have broken copyright law. They take issue with the fact that long-term use of file sharing to distribute their media will curtail their plans for purely subscription based services.
The RIAA, MPAA, cable companies, and other media companies are looking towards subscription based services where you are locked into a particular service. Right now, we have to pay a subscription fee to watch cable television. Its a steady, consistent form of income for the companies providing the service. The RIAA and MPAA would LOVE to migrate to subscription based services. Netflix and others are the beginning of this. Eventually, instead of getting DVDs in the mail, you will simply be able to punch it up on your TV for a monthly fee without the ability to copy it. Without an actual physical medium to distribute the content, copying becomes more difficult.
The real problem lies with the fact that a company (MPAA) can make a threat, and half way around the world a police force raids some place and arrests 30 people for an offence that is actually a civil matter, not a criminal one. The fact that the police and government forces are butting into civil matters is extremely frightening. It is one more nail in the coffin for civil rights and for freedom.
Call me crazy, but to me, this is the same thing as being arrested for slander. Sure, the person that I have slandered has every right to take me to court and work to receive compensation for my lies. But what right does the government have to come in and arrest you for it? There is a big difference between a civil offence and a criminal offence. It is a line that must be well defined in order to preserve individual liberties.
A statement from a Finn (Score:4, Insightful)
As a citizen of the Republic of Finland, I have to say that I would feel a lot safer if the police would concentrate on catching real criminals (murderers, rapists, thiefs, muggers) and public nuisances (drunk drivers) who harm real people instead of going after a bunch of nerds whose only crime is that they may have lowered the potential profits of some media corporations by an undefinied amount.
The police is hopelessly underfunded and understaffed as it is. They should be thankfull that someone is sitting in the front of their computer playing a warezed game, as opposed to driving over little children while drunk.
Yes, I'm annoyed; it's my tax money that's being wasted here.
Re:What a haul... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Insightful)
If you are going to do the crime, be ready to do the time. It's well known that the charge of the crime is going to be based off the retail rate for the product. They are being charged with avoiding paying that known retail value. I don't see what's wrong with
Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Insightful)
They have a right to charge for their work if they want to. Just because they made it, that doesn't give you a right to it.
Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, real interesting.
TFA states that those arrested face 2 years in prison if convicted. I, for one, would assume that implies that FInland does have criminal penalties for copyright infringement. According to a quick google search, Italy and the UK (which are not the US), at least, also have criminal penalties for copyright infringement. I'd assume many other countries do as well.
Note that some violations, l
Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Interesting)
I've taken another route that the **AA and BSA can do absolutely nothing about. I simply look for Creative Commons, open source and free software. I'm getting started in Lighting. I am following the open DMX project and it's associated free software. I started looking to free software after getting hooked on Mozilla Firefox and Open Office.
It's true that
Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:yeah (Score:3, Insightful)
But my reply was more directed toward the parent posters scorn about blaming the actions of other countries' MPAA on the US body, even when that is obviously the case. The MPAA is certainly pulling the strings on this one.
Re:Nice (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:What a haul... (Score:2, Insightful)
Using the same logic that you just did, there's nothing inherently wrong with stealing anything. You didn't pay for it, so it has no value...
Re:What a haul... (Score:5, Insightful)
They are MANUFACTURING.
Pirates merely exploit the same characteristic of "intellectual property" that Media Moguls do: production costs are trivial.
Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Informative)
- the salaries/benefits of the people who work for the record companies.
- the cost of machinery and materials to produce and package CDs.
- cost of warehousing and shipping
- the costs of unsold inventory
And I'm sure there are many other items I've omitted.Re:What a haul... (Score:3, Interesting)
Close, but not quite correct. It is worth as much as you would be _willing_ to pay for it. So the actual loss is much lower, but certainly not zero.
Assume 1 million songs get illegally downloaded that would usually cost $1, but the downloaders would be willing to pay at most $0.5. Then the loss is $500k, not zero or $1M.
Re:Privacy (Score:3, Interesting)
Also, there's a rumor going about that the finnish police have actually made backdoors into a lot of peoples computers by infecting the torrents that were available on finreactor. Quite illegal, if true. That's it for the ethics of the police I guess.
Re:Privacy (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately, IP blocking like PG is pretty much worthless. Yes, it's easy to find out the IP's of the corporate parents, but they need only get a consumer level DSL/Cable line or have some of their employees run their pirate hunting software at home... and they will be virtually impossible to track down.
Re:Privacy (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't agree with this line of thought. My cable connection is more than capable of finding hundreds of people who are sharing $FILE on a given P2P network. Why wouldn't this work for the industry?
Judging by any number of past gaffes [slashdot.org] - like C&D notices going out for Professor Usher's lecture, OpenOffice tarballs, etc. - it's obvious that nobody at the C&D farms is
Re:Which Site? (Score:2)
Considering the "Police say the site had 10,000 users, all Finnish" quote in the article, and the fact that Suprnova is still up fine, i'm guessing not.
Re:Which Site? (Score:2)
You're right... Suprnova has way more than 10,000 users.
Re:Which Site? (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Which Site? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (Score:5, Insightful)
Yeah. And Nelson Mandela was wrong to disobey the apartheid laws.
A bad law is a bad thing, and civil disobedience is one way to protest it.
Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (Score:3, Funny)
Its really tough to be a dissident in digital times...
Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (Score:4, Insightful)
As the grandparent suggested, you have almost certainly never been involved in the creation of anything that can be pirated. But I bet you're utterly outraged at GPL violations, too. Those damn copyright infringers and license breakers... oh wait.
Re:Right... (Score:4, Insightful)
Basically the reason people steal music is that the industry has failed to provide the service to us adaquately. Its not the users fault, they aren't evil. Greed is the only reason why we have suits and arrests right now, the RIAA refuses to address the problem and instead is fighting a war they can't win(sound familiar see: War on drugs). Furthermore everything seems to indicate that music and film piracy has little effect on overall sales and honestly I don't see metallica starving, maybe if they bought less coke they wouldn't need the tiny bit of extra cash... You can come back and say what about the indie artists all you want, if anything this increases exposure and sales...
Comment removed (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (Score:2, Insightful)
incase you haven't noticed code can/is considered to be 'intellectual property'. yet for some reason so many people don't love those laws and so something weird, they *give the code away for free*.. how strange..
Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (Score:5, Insightful)
If anything, people using these sites are engaging in the most peaceful form of resistance I can imagine-- nobody is getting physically harmed by someone downloading a movie or an MP3. Nobody is being threatened with a weapon. Nobody is being deprived of physical property.
Ghandi would be proud.
Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (Score:5, Insightful)
No. If a law is Immoral, it is everyone's Moral Responsibility to break that law.
And I bet you would just love intellectual property laws if you had any intellectual property.
Wow. This just goes to show that you have no concept of how anyone can have Morals.
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:what site are they talking about? (Score:2)