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Illegal File Trading Draws Two P2P Raids In Europe

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the but-it's-our-perfect-right-except-wait-hold-on dept.

The Internet 816

had3l writes "Police in Finland raided the operation of a popular Bit Torrent site and arrested 34 people, 30 of which were volunteers who helped moderate the site. This comes right after the MPAA reported that it would start suing tracker servers." An anonymous reader points to a story (currently at the top of RespectP2P.org's homepage) about the raid yesterday morning of Dutch eDonkey sites Releases4u and Shareconnector.

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816 comments

What a haul... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091846)

Love this quote.

"Police say the site had 10,000 users, all Finnish, who downloaded illegally-copied content worth millions of euros. The site featured 6000 torrents, including film, videos, music and games."

I always thought something was worth whatever you actually paid for it. These downloaders were paying zero.

Re:What a haul... (5, Insightful)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091880)

Yeah, we are back to the assumption that Corporate America likes to make that every single song, movie or piece of software would have been legally purchased if they had not been illegally downloaded. Obviously that is false, but it makes the "losses sufferred" sound really impressive.

Re:What a haul... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091957)

Enjoy your useless rhetorical battle with hollywood, slashbots. Lotta good it will do you when they bankrupt you for being the hardened criminal pirate you are.

Re:What a haul... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091999)

Fuck you AC, the industry won't even exist once we're through with it. THEY declared battle, not us. They're failing and almost dead as it is, but suing their own customers is putting the last nail in the coffin.

Re:What a haul... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092017)

Looks like Corporate Finland and Corporate Netherlands believe the same thing, smart guy.

Re:What a haul... (2, Insightful)

OldeTimeGeek (725417) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092015)

I always thought something was worth whatever you actually paid for it. These downloaders were paying zero

Using the same logic that you just did, there's nothing inherently wrong with stealing anything. You didn't pay for it, so it has no value...

Re:What a haul... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092029)

Love this quote.



"Police say the site had 10,000 users, all Finnish, who downloaded illegally-copied content worth millions of euros. The site featured 6000 torrents, including film, videos, music and games."

I always thought something was worth whatever you actually paid for it. These downloaders were paying zero.



So if I steal a TV and thus pay nothing for it, no one loses out? Get it right. I know what you're trying to say - that technically no money has been lost - but you didn't express it will



The problem isn't that people have stolen the record industry out of $15 worth of music, but that they have $15 worth of music that they didn't pay for. It's not like stealing a TV, which results in a store and company losing money. The nature of digital music means that it can be replicated at ~0 cost (excluding stupid things like the power used when your PC is doing the ripping and so on) so you're right to some extent that the record industry doesn't lose $15 of music, as nothing leaves their inventory. However, people do acquire things that they haven't paid for, which does strike me as wrong.



It's a difficult issue, because in many ways no one loses anything, but people certainly gain something. And, if extrapolated to a potential conclusion, people do lose out in the long run because if everyone got their music from P2P and didn't pay for it, and the record industry only sold the initial CD from which all rips were taken, then they would be losing out.

Re:What a haul... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092056)

I always thought something was worth whatever you actually paid for it. These downloaders were paying zero.

By this twisted "logic", one would conclude that the car I stole last week was worth nothing.

Tin Foil (2, Insightful)

JustinRLynn (831164) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091848)

Hmmm, no wish to upset but if it starts in other countries no doubt the MPAA and RIAA will try it here (with the help of their favorite police depts, of course)

Re:Tin Foil (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091894)

Hopefully they actually WILL start enforcing it everywhere. It seems all you Linux people only care about stealing and getting things for free.

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091953)

Note that nearly all of the moderators used Windows at the time. Warez and traders existed decades before Linux.

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092019)

Yes, but the Linux people have convoluted their free software moral supriority position with the 'right' to warez whatever the hell they feel like (because IP is like um immoral doodz! Gimmiegimmie!)

slashdot.org is a site dedicated to how great Linux is and how great pirating stuff is. You don't see this InformationWantsToBeFree crapola on WinInfo or Ars Technica. What does that tell you?

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091972)

You just don't get it do you!

Millions of people downloading copyrighted works without the permission of the copyright owner: OK!

Groups representing those who hold said copyrights getting a overzealous in enforcing said copyrights: OMG! WTF! MPAAHITLER!

Re:Tin Foil (1)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091916)

Why do I have visions of SWAT teams busting down doors with automatic weapons at the ready into rooms of nervous nerds sitting at computer screens sort of akin to the Elian Gonzalez photos?

Re:Tin Foil (1)

The AtomicPunk (450829) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091980)

What happens when they bust in the door on the nerds that are better armed? :)

Re:Tin Foil (1)

mordors9 (665662) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092012)

Then we do the Branch Davidian thing. Circle the building and it will accidentally burn down of course.

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092032)

Then the nerds will get massacred. Nerds are not elite swat teams. They're not even mall security caliber.

Ok, let's say the nerds are better armed...the cops bust into a house, which they've been trained over and over to do, and quickly charge in with guns at the ready....unless the nerds are waiting there with guns at the ready, nothing it going to happen.

I download TV shows (5, Insightful)

sgant (178166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091987)

I do it every week. Yes, I know it's illegal. Yes I know I probably won't be able to in the future with the draconian laws coming down.

I have a special circumstance though. I live out in the middle of no where. I don't get broadcast TV except on one station...I do on the other hand get high-speed DSL.

Now I COULD get Comcast cable, but since I only watch 4 tv shows a week, I'm not going to be paying 50 bucks a month (yes, 50 bucks here even for just plain basic). Not to mention Comcast likes to raise their rates at the drop of a hat.

Dish services are also out because the number of trees they can't get a good signal, I've tried. SO that leaves me with downloading these TV shows.

But what the TV networks are missing out on is that THEY should offer torrents of their shows right from their web pages. If they throw in the regular commercials how is this different than just watching it over the airwaves? I would download them in a heartbeat and gladly watch their commercials if they did this. Why are so uptight about this? They should be like "hell, download all you wish and trade them with your friends...as long as the commercials are still there we're still making our money...and we could also target advertising better for people that download and that could generate even more money blah blah blah..."

Movies though, I don't download at all. Never have, never will.

Re:I download TV shows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092059)

"Dish services are also out because the number of trees they can't get a good signal, I've tried. SO that leaves me with downloading these TV shows."

Get a chainsaw and fix your tree problem. Damn green pussy.

Re:I download TV shows (0, Troll)

NDPTAL85 (260093) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092064)

Because its not convienent for you to get TV legally, that makes it alright to break the law right?

Re:Tin Foil (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091993)

Illegal file traders .. what ..hmm stuck the word "illegal" in front of it hoping to cast an evil light when the people are pursuing something that really only pisses of the greedy but ultimately doing nothing wrong.

"Oh my, he's doing something illegal ..burn him!"

You never hear of "illegal object seizers" (theives?). Or "illegal life removers" (killers).

first post? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091851)

you all suck the cock?

Privacy (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091855)

How does PeerGuardian help here? What about FreeNet or Mute? Any news of increased traffic on those networks?

Re:Privacy (3, Interesting)

zalle (637380) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091896)

PeerGuardian helps in the fashion that it blocks all the _HUNDREDS_ of incoming connections the finnish police and various trade organizations have been trying. Yes, on my computer.

Also, there's a rumor going about that the finnish police have actually made backdoors into a lot of peoples computers by infecting the torrents that were available on finreactor. Quite illegal, if true. That's it for the ethics of the police I guess.

Re:Privacy (4, Informative)

DaHat (247651) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091912)

I've got a friend who got C&Ded for downloading a tv show while running PeerGuardian with all of the latest updates.

Unfortunately, IP blocking like PG is pretty much worthless. Yes, it's easy to find out the IP's of the corporate parents, but they need only get a consumer level DSL/Cable line or have some of their employees run their pirate hunting software at home... and they will be virtually impossible to track down.

fp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091858)

fp

Set themselves up for this (5, Interesting)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091860)

... by having moderators. If you've got moderators, and they're making absolutely no attempt to curtail copyright infringement, you're pretty much asking to be considered an accessory. No "common carrier" defense if you're actively deleting and moderating your sites content.

Idiots.

Re:Set themselves up for this (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092045)

They might get away with it if they moderated on another computer.
Like forums.bittorentsite.fi or something.

If they can claim that they didn't have access to the frontpage they might get away with it. I agree with your sentiment about setting up moderators though.

Why spend days downloading movies (4, Insightful)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091861)

When you can sign up for Netflix and get them delivered to your home for about 66 cents each!

Maybe I'm just lucky, but where I live I can get 14 movies delivered a week with Netflix's 8 movies at a time plan.

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1, Flamebait)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091893)

When you can sign up for Netflix and get them delivered to your home for about 66 cents each!

I have a couple reasons why:

1. I don't want to be on a monthly payment plan ($17.99 or something) where I have to get 7 movies in that month in order to be paying less than renting the movies at the video store.

2. Netflix's commercials annoy me. Standing in line at a store? Who the fuck does that? I have never waited to rent a movie and honestly, putting them into the mail takes longer for me than does going to the video store that's less than two miles away.

3. Downloading movies is free. 66 cents each still costs more than downloading them.

4. They come in a format that is all ready to be played on your computer (if you so desire) instead of having to wait to convert the 4GB to that format yourself.

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (5, Insightful)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091959)

"I don't want to be on a monthly payment plan"

I have no problem paying a monthly payment plan as long as I'm getting movies that I want. 66 cents per movie is cheap whether it is paid monthly or not.

"Netflix's commercials annoy me."

All commercials annoy me. But I still buy products regardless.

"Downloading movies is free. 66 cents each still costs more than downloading them."

But you're downloading crap. I'm getting the actual movie and can rip it myself, with all the menus, audio tracks, and bonus material intact. You never know what you're getting when you've wasted the time to download.

"They come in a format that is all ready to be played on your computer (if you so desire) instead of having to wait to convert the 4GB to that format yourself."

You don't consider the time spent downloading it waiting?! It' takes me about ten minutes to rip the DVD to my hard drive. Can you really download an entire movie in ten minutes?!

Downloading is not free. (1)

Yartrebo (690383) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092007)

According to my cost accounting, a downloaded movie costs about $1. It's $.20 for depreciation and electricity for your computer (I live in a place with $.18/kwh electricity), $.40 for your bandwidth, and $.40 for a CDR.

Re:Downloading is not free. (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092053)

You've made a few really bad assumptions there though. The worst is that you assume all of the movies people download are burned to a CD-R (and who still pays 40 cents each for those anyway???), that is simply WRONG. Second is that you assume the computer wouldn't be on or in use were you not downloading a movie, that is often wrong as well. And finally you assume that the only reason the person has a net connection is to download movies. I have DSL and DON'T download movies, so if I downloaded a movie next month will by bill go up by 40 cents? According to your math it does. The way my (and most other nerds) PCs are setup, I could download movies now for very nearly free other than my own time. My PC is already on 24/7 so electricity and depreciation is a non-issue, I pay by the month for DSL, and I don't even HAVE a DVD-player so I wouldn't burn them to disk when I could just watch them the same way I watch DVDs (through my PC) and I very rarely watch a movie more than once unless it is a classic and most people buy those on DVD anyway...even those who download movies.

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092047)

I have no problem paying a monthly payment plan as long as I'm getting movies that I want. 66 cents per movie is cheap whether it is paid monthly or not.

For an avid movie watcher (and I consider 6 movies a month avid) I can't see the need to pay a monthly fee EVERY MONTH when I might not be receiving enough movies for it to be worth it.

All commercials annoy me. But I still buy products regardless.

That's your problem. I refuse to support a company that I find annoying.

But you're downloading crap. I'm getting the actual movie and can rip it myself, with all the menus, audio tracks, and bonus material intact.

Anytime I have ripped a movie I have removed all the extras anyway. Usually because they take up too much room and I don't need them. Downloading a movie in one of the various formats usually has already done that for me.

You never know what you're getting when you've wasted the time to download.

I have never downloaded a movie (in the past two years+) that has been anything other than what it was labelled as. Might want to stick with the more "reputable" sources.

You don't consider the time spent downloading it waiting?! It' takes me about ten minutes to rip the DVD to my hard drive. Can you really download an entire movie in ten minutes?!

It takes an hour or two to download and a day or two to get in the mail. You don't consider that?

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1)

Dr.Opveter (806649) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091911)

Spend days downloading movies? Last time i checked you can practically stream a dvd scene release on decent cable connection. A 700mb xvid takes less than half an hour on a 5mbit line...

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1)

goneutt (694223) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091923)

Ah, but if you have a DVD burner you can make a list of the movies you want copied, and go crazy copying. Then you just keep the account until your done with your list, and then maybe once a year you can go buy that one movie thats actually worth paying $16 for.

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091925)

Because here:

1. Netflix is not available
2. Downloading is legal, copying rented movies isn't
3. Bandwidth is cheaper than renting movies

FWIW, I rent my movies.

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091938)

yup, dvdshrink them to divx or better yet to a dvd-r disc and send them back.

works great, better quality, and certianly saves time.

Re:Why spend days downloading movies (1)

Anita Coney (648748) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092043)

I used to do that, but hard drives are so cheap I just rip the whole thing. I use PowerDVD 6 to play them via the VIDEO_TS.ifo file from every computer in the house. One of which is a PVR connected to the living room's TV.

Days? (1)

DarkEdgeX (212110) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092000)

Try hours. I can pull down a DVDR on this shitty DSL connection of mine in 12-16 hours via BitTorrent.

Re:Days? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092048)

Yeah, I can download A dvd also. Then the ISP gets wise and my connection turns to shit for a week or so.

Plus if you aren't trying to get the latest spiderman screener or whatever, it is a lot easier to find what you want in the rental market.

I have said it before and I'll say it again... (0, Flamebait)

koreaman (835838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091863)

This is good> .

No matter how stupid the P2P laws are, it is good when they are enforced. It is not anyone's right to break the law, no matter how silly the law is.

And I bet you would just love intellectual property laws if you had any intellectual property.

MOD PARENT DOWN! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091884)

No matter how stupid the P2P laws are, it is good when they are enforced.

MOD PARENT DOWN! This troll is talking about taking action against P2P!

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN! (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091954)

RTFP

Yes, he's blowing his karma to hell. No, he's not talking about legal P2P, only illegal, which most /. readers will get up in arms about ("how dare they stop me from stealing!")

Had you ever created or accomplished anything worthwhile, you'd likely understand.

I should register an account so know-nothings can mod me down and dock my karma, too.

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091922)

I have IP. I hate the current IP laws. But if you can't beat 'em, join 'em...

Amen (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091956)

You hit the nail on the head...

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (5, Insightful)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091968)

It is not anyone's right to break the law, no matter how silly the law is.

Yeah. And Nelson Mandela was wrong to disobey the apartheid laws.

A bad law is a bad thing, and civil disobedience is one way to protest it.

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092041)

As long as you are willing and understand the potential consequences...

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (2, Insightful)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092058)

101 idiotic ways make a point:

#73 : compare the struggle against the MPAA in your attempts to download motion pictures from the Internet with the emancipation of a race of people from racist oppression.

Don't get me wrond, I do understand your point (i.e. that the original post was a massive overgeneralisation) but you don't do yourself any favours comparing what are basically selfish goals with the one of the great heroes of the 20th century.

Right... (1)

paranode (671698) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092062)

A bad law is a bad thing, and civil disobedience is one way to protest it.

So giving owners copyrights over their own work is a bad thing, eh? You're ready to throw out the GPL as invalid, then?

Oh right, copyrights are only bad if it stops you from getting movies and music for free. Gotcha.

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (2, Funny)

imsabbel (611519) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092066)

And of course its just TOO nice that the civil disobedience also provides music, movies, games, ect. without ever paying for them.
Its really tough to be a dissident in digital times...

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (2, Insightful)

neoform (551705) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092014)

yeah, cause no one here is involved with open source.

incase you haven't noticed code can/is considered to be 'intellectual property'. yet for some reason so many people don't love those laws and so something weird, they *give the code away for free*.. how strange..

Re:I have said it before and I'll say it again... (4, Insightful)

DarkEdgeX (212110) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092022)

Gimme a break. I don't see how you can say in one breath that these P2P laws are "stupid" while claiming that enforcement of said laws is "good". When is it ever good to enforce stupid laws?

If anything, people using these sites are engaging in the most peaceful form of resistance I can imagine-- nobody is getting physically harmed by someone downloading a movie or an MP3. Nobody is being threatened with a weapon. Nobody is being deprived of physical property.

Ghandi would be proud.

Re: I have said it before and I'll say it again... (1)

Alwin Henseler (640539) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092033)

You're trolling here, right?

It is not anyone's right to break the law, no matter how silly the law is.

You're right. If the law is silly enough, then it's not your right, but your duty to break it. It's called civil disobedience.

And I bet you would just love intellectual property laws if you had any intellectual property.

I do have some intellectual 'property', and no, both as consumer and producer copyright laws and such are still just a bother to me.

Ars3 Hum0r (4, Funny)

webword (82711) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091864)

"The Motion Picture Ass. of America (MPAA) today announced (PDF) that it is pursuing civil actions against hundreds of server operators of BitTorrent, eDonkey and DirectConnect P2P file-swapping networks, in its war on internet movie piracy."

Emphasis mine but "Ass." is theirs.

Re:Ars3 Hum0r (1)

Apatharch (796324) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091945)

They did exactly the same thing in this [theregister.co.uk] related story linked to from /. the other day. Something tells me The Register aren't exactly the MPAA's biggest fans....

WinMX warnings (4, Informative)

kahei (466208) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091874)


On WinMX (which isn't as good as it used to be, which is why I dare mention it on /.), recently I have started to get automatic messages sent to me (in Japanese) saying something like:

"The Recording Industry Association of Japan has noticed that you are sharing files whose names match artists or recordings owned by our members. You are reminded that such..." and so on and so on.

I got a couple of these in one day -- haven't run WinMX recently though so I don't know if they are still happening. It would be interesting to try sharing only files with ASCII names and see if that makes a difference.

How do we Fix this P2P problem? (2, Interesting)

lcsjk (143581) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091883)

This problem will continue, and we do not want to have any P2P curtailed because large companies and organizations have political clout. I do not think it will ever be stopped by lawsuits, and even though the MPAA and others may be over-reacting, there is still a perception that digital media sharing circumvents the legal selling of products. Is there a way to slow or stop the sharing of music and video that would appease the those companies and yet not bring down the P2P system?

you cant stop it all (1)

broyles (838024) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091888)

I think the RIAA and the music industry should embrace P2P due to the fact that they can not stop it all, I don't belive in downloading music/films I buy them , but people need to adapt and get with the times. I belive the best thing for the music industry to do is release some songs for free and using a bittorrent to allow people to download them... Just my thoughts!

Re:you cant stop it all (1)

SamuelGoldstein (838700) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091983)

hm... well, just like the government should embrace illegal substances. ie: crack, marajuanna, opium, lsd, ect...

Re:you cant stop it all (1)

Apatharch (796324) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092040)

Nice idea; what needs to happen is for more people to make legal use of P2P networks, thereby increasing the profile of such systems as legitimate tools. That way they would be a far less easy target for litigation and legalistic strongarming.

From the article... (1)

WoodenRobot (726910) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091891)

The Motion Picture Ass. of America (MPAA) today announced

"Ass. of America"? Hmmm. I doubt that was unintentional...

what site are they talking about? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091892)

Anybody know?

Re:what site are they talking about? (1)

wheany (460585) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092039)

Finreactor.com. Don't bother trying to visit it, though.

Insert Comment... (2, Funny)

BJZQ8 (644168) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091899)

Insert Comment about star systems slipping through your fingers...

TV Torrents (5, Insightful)

superid (46543) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091901)

The gathering storm against bittorrent users has already started to worry me. I have been using suprnova to find torrents of TV shows only, no movies. I'm essentially time shifting content that I could almost as easily have "tivo"-ed myself.

A recent example is that a friend of mine missed last week's episode of her favorite show, ER. I got a torrent the next day and burned her a DVD.

I wish that type of usage was considered "fair use" but it's not.

Re:TV Torrents (1)

garcia (6573) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091944)

A recent example is that a friend of mine missed last week's episode of her favorite show, ER. I got a torrent the next day and burned her a DVD.

I haven't been downloading much lately just because I have DirecTV and Tivo now but I downloaded this week's Simpsons' and Arrested Development episodes because they were both preempted by Survivor's off-night finale bullshit.

Fox should be fucking thrilled that I am watching their shows and would go so far as to download the episodes to keep current.

I really don't see the difference between me Tivoing it and downloading it. I wouldn't have seen the commercials w/the 30s skip feature anyway nor would I have watched the commercials even if I didn't use Tivo.

Re:TV Torrents (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091986)

Television ratings do not count any form of timeshifting (vcr, tivo, pirate). Networks get paid according to the ratings. So, no Fox doesn't give a shit about you.

BREIN (2, Interesting)

thrill12 (711899) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091906)

BREIN (Dutch for BRAIN) is the little sister of the MPAA. They kinda follow their actions and immitate them as closely as possible, I guess. They even have a commercial in the Dutch cinema's, bothering people that pay for good movies with blah blah about piracy.

Next time I bring my camera with me, I will film the commercial :)

Which Site? (1)

Hettch (692387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091908)

Does anybody know which site this was? I'm guessing suprnova, but I couldn't see anything in the article.

Re:Which Site? (1)

PhoenixFlare (319467) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091962)

I'm guessing suprnova, but I couldn't see anything in the article.

Considering the "Police say the site had 10,000 users, all Finnish" quote in the article, and the fact that Suprnova is still up fine, i'm guessing not.

Re:Which Site? (1)

Mz6 (741941) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091990)

"Considering the "Police say the site had 10,000 users, all Finnish" quote in the article, and the fact that Suprnova is still up fine, i'm guessing not."

You're right... Suprnova has way more than 10,000 users.

Re:Which Site? (1)

skyshock21 (764958) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092028)

Look at TFA closer: "An anonymous reader points to a story (currently at the top of RespectP2P.org's homepage) about the raid yesterday morning of Dutch eDonkey sites Releases4u and Shareconnector."

Re:Which Site? (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092044)

It was finreactor.com

Re:Which Site? (4, Informative)

wheany (460585) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092054)

Finreactor.com.

The Wild West (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091915)

A lot of people have said that the ongoing copyright crackdown represents the end of the sort of "Wild West" nature that the internet had at first.

I disagree.

This represents the wild west nature finally becoming complete.

Previously the internet was a place of lawlessness.

Now it's still a place of lawlessness, but on top of this we have little tyrannies, where those rare people with lawyers can make anything they want happen just by issuing threats and governments can take things out at will without having to worry about pesky things like jurisdiction, right or courts. Like the wild west, where on top of the chaos it was overlaid that if whatever self-appointed lawman felt like it you would get hanged or shot for no reason at all.

Perhaps this comes down to how you define the word "laws"; after all, there have been many times throughout justice where "law" meant nothing but the imposed will on a subjugated populace of a bunch of armed thugs. But I think laws imply justice. I see none of this coming to the internet, only the raw exercise of naked power.

Re:The Wild West (4, Insightful)

duffbeer703 (177751) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092030)

The "Wild West" was untimately transformed into dysfunctional sprawl development & government subsidized desert farming operations.

Sounds like a great future for the internet.

Waste of time (4, Interesting)

new-black-hand (197043) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091929)

MPAA did not win a single court case in 2004. Groskter was found to be legal, and there are a number of previous rulings that show that providing technology that enables people to share files does not constitute breach of copyright! The RIAA and ARIA (Australian equiv.) are seeing this now in their Kazaa case currently underway in Australia - and if a case can not be proven against Kazaa (which still has some elements of centralisation that could provide Kazaa with a way to 'filter' or 'block' copyright material) then the chances of being able to find that a simple website with links to trackers (which themselves are not a copyright infringement either - just a 'pointer') are guilty of copyright violation are almost zero.

Time for the record labels and movie studios to wake up to themselves - they are alienating a large part of their support base. All the expenses of lobbying various governments around the world, and the associated legal fees around every case is being paid for, and funded by consumers who purchase their records!

They should listen to the overpaid Robbie Williams, who said something along the lines of "I dont care, I am rich, if yo uwant my music, just download it!" (He said this in 2002 - I can't find an online source).

Bugger... (1)

lukedukekiwi (834705) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091940)

I might just be a bit paranoid... but i better start stockpiling some movies/tv for xmas now just incase

Reporting in the media. (2, Insightful)

zalle (637380) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091942)

What's completely, utterly amazing that there hasn't been a single mention of the incident in the news of any of the tv channels, nor anything in the major papers either. For a while there was a short item on the site of Helsingin Sanomat (the largest paper in Finland) but that was taken away after an hour or so. Makes you suspect that the police might actually be controlling any reporting on the subject? Guess that's it for truly independent mass media in Finland.

PR Blitz! (2, Interesting)

NoSuchGuy (308510) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091949)

The *AAs see this as a success in their "crusade" against "pirates".

Remember: Moderating on websites may impact your criminal record.

Scary Stuff... (1)

Stop Error (823742) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091952)

I am not familiar with Dutch law but they are going to sue people for copyright infringement even though they didn't host any copyrighted files? If they are held responsible for "facilitating" copyright infringement they by the same logic could not their ISP? Or their hosting provider? (if not the same as the ISP)

Am I wrong in thinking that following this logic I couldn't discus code that may be proprietary on my site as it may lead to infringement? What if I link to a site that contains eDonkey or BitTorrent links. Are they going to kick my server room door in as well?

I find this very scary

30 of WHOM (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11091955)

America, leading the world in math and english

A Vaild Argument? (5, Interesting)

s7uar7 (746699) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091964)

Has anyone actually fought the RIAA cases, or have they all been settled out of court? If I understand it correctly, they are suing people who are sharing files, not those downloading, and they are asking for $x per file shared. Wouldn't it be valid to ask them to prove how long you spent connected to the p2p network and then multiply this by your available bandwidth. That way you may be able to argue that you could only possibly have uploaded a certain number of songs, regardless of how many you were sharing. Sure, you may still end up paying a couple of hundred bucks, but that's far better than the few thousand I've read about.

accessory to a crime? (1)

qwp (694253) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091966)

have ever happened to innocent till proven guilty?
Because as it appears from that article, they provided a means, that is not commiting a crime.

Ford Motor company created a efficent fast self contained escape vehicle. Yet, BP is not sueing Ford for all of the robberies that take place with cars as the transportation vehicle. This whole issue seams very disorted by those who have links into media?(just a thought)

/me Dones His Tinfoil Snow Suit.

Re:accessory to a crime? (1)

Drantin (569921) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092063)

But what if the site had a section labeled something like 'Warez' which would indicate that the explicit purpose of that section was for copyright infringement?

I have no idea if it did or not as the article doesn't seem to mention what the site was and just lists things that were there...

Why police? (1)

bigberk (547360) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091978)

Maybe the law in Finland is quite different, by why would the police carry out such a raid? There are no criminal offences involved. There are no laws being broken, no crimes being committed right?

If the industry wants to sue someone that's civil action as I understand it.

Are the police becoming the henchmen for the corporations? Man, that would scare the shit out of me.

Maybe the cops should be, oh I dunno... stopping dangerous people, who carry out assault, rape, murder, abductions... nah, that's too easy right?

Re:Why police? (1)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092034)

See my other post.

They took money ('donations') for access to the site. That makes it a crime. With max 2 years in the can, plus any damages to the studios/software companies.

But you are right, the case does have lots of question marks. Basically it'a test case for Finland. If it ultimately goes nowhere, expect tighter laws as an answer.

that certainly answers one question (4, Interesting)

museumpeace (735109) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091981)

that /. kicked around last week about "how could you prosecute BitTorrent since no one person is holding or moving whole copies of the copied works?"
I have to ask, since the article points out that police are also striking at eDonkey servers, when the cops are going to be knocking on my door. My son and half the kids in his dorm are swapping/swiping movies like crazy with eDonkey. All of a sudden it looks like I have to get knowledgable about my liability when he brings his computer home for the Christmas break.

Maybe this is the MPAA's version of... (1)

DarkEdgeX (212110) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091982)

..."shock and awe"?

Find a way to sue the the advertisers (2, Insightful)

ollybee (636366) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091989)

Advertisments for very well known companies are appearing on the biggest torrent sites. The money from these companies is the reason why downloading movies is easy enough to become mainstream. Without this money casual users may well be put off, as the process of finding torrents would become more obviously illegal and more difficult.

Great! (0)

proxy2 (156777) | more than 9 years ago | (#11091998)

In other news, all slashdot servers were seized and CmdrTaco has been deported to Guantanamo bay on terrorism [subgenius.com] charges.

Few major details (5, Informative)

Jarnis (266190) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092004)

- Finreactor (the finnish siten in question) admins solicted for 'donations' - in other words, took money for access to torrent trackers. Also the tracker required registration, and kept 'ratios' for each user. Heck, the *bank account number* of the site was in plain view asking for donations directly to the bank account of the admins. In other words, the activity was very very stupid.

- By Finnish law, the crime becomes 'tekijänoikeusrikos' instead of 'rikkomus' when money is involved. The difference is that for the lesser crime, maximum penalty is just fines - and I doubt police could even get search warrants for the lesser offense.

But in this case since money is involved, and prosecution will claim that there was a goal for financial gain, and it becomes a bigger crime (max 2 years in the can). And suddenly it's easy for the police to get all the details they need from ISPs & search warrants for the busts.

So in other words: Taking money (even if it's just 'donations' to cover tracker bandwidth) is a nice way to get your ass in jail.

The case does have few murky details - they cannot prosecute everyone (over 10000 users supposedly), and distributing the .torrents themselves is a gray area thing. Admins definitely facilitated copyright violations, but... how illegal that is? Can they be strung up for what their users did? It's a test case for P2P in Finland. I think the fact that the admins took money for access to the site will nail their asses for *something*, but the rest is still up in the air.

Remember their true goals (2, Informative)

goneutt (694223) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092009)

I know that the boards of the media companies get group chubbies when ever someone suggest systems where they don't have to produce products, hence the cooperation with iTunes.
They dream of the day when no one owns physical media, but instead pays a per use fee to listen or view media.

Also, as long as I can't rent Troma movies at BlockBuster I'm gonna find them on P2P networks. Oh, and if it's not utter garbage I wind up buying them.

Mistranslation (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092010)

"Police in Finland raided the operation of a popular Bit Torrent site and arrested 34 people, 30 of which were volunteers who helped moderate the site.
Register or someone else mistranslated original text. They are suspecting 4 admins plus 30 "powerusers", nobody has been arrested yet. Yesterday police raided admins' houses and seized their computers.

Apparently putting "donations" button to tracker-page got them badly screwed, since now they're were getting direct or indirect monetary benefit for running tracker (which had lot of illegal files).

More or less luckily TPB has already promised to lend it's tracker for Finnish warezors;D

Ah, but they DID have the copyrighted content (2, Interesting)

hacker (14635) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092024)

One argument I see again and again with this, is that "they never possessed the original copyrighted materials, only the torrent file", but that isn't entirely true.

In order to create the .torrent file, you have to have the full original source material. Someone had the original source material (movie, dvd, software, game, etc.) and created the .torrent file from that source material. This person then must have given that .torrent file to the tracker server itself (or the person who created the .torrent is running the tracker themselves).

In fact, since the .torrent file has to directly contain the URL of the tracker itself, you can't simply "upload" the .torrent to a tracker and have it function, unless you know the exact tracker URL that server uses to host its torrent files. If you want to put a .torrent on 10 trackers, you have to create 10 separate .torrent files. You can't reuse the same .torrent file for all 10 trackers.

This means the tracker operator and the people providing torrents are collaborating in some way, or the tracker is publishing its tracker URL to facilitate people creating torrent files for it, from copyrighted source materials.

Its a little greyer than originally thought.

This is for the best, really (4, Interesting)

Corellon Larethian (833606) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092031)

It provides the proper de-centralizing stimulus.

What if George Washington had been captured and executed by the British? Was the Revolution de-centralized enough to survive his loss? Is America's democracy de-centralized enough to survive the poor quality of Diebolds voting machines?

Stuff like this will benefit change, not only in America, but in China and Iran, as well. In those countries, the kids in the universities might be apprehended and clubbed to death by the Moral Police, at any given minute. But with sufficient security and de-centralization, they can still communicate with the outside world. Enough to possibly, one day, bring decent living conditions to the culture of power which uses and discards people as you would a tool.

This is a good thing. Good changes have never come easy, or with a consensus.

I'm still waiting for Palladium. I think that will be one of the best changes, for the good of all Humanity.

Raid in france (2, Informative)

treuf (99331) | more than 9 years ago | (#11092050)

Source : http://fr.news.yahoo.com/041215/1/46m9q.html

ALPA (french RIAA) - with the RIAA help, and police today closed a bittorrent hosting site (http://torrent.youceff.com) holding many copyrighted movies.
That site was hosted in France and a court order was sent to catch peoples using the service at the same time - it seems they logged 160000 unique IPs.

Under local lows, the site admin can get up to 3 years of jail + an up to 300000 fine.

In 100 years... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11092069)

In 100 years, when people read about these events in history books rather than newspapers, it's going to seem totally insane... our police forces chasing after and persecuting people for what essentially amounts to the distribution of ideas. If only the rest of the world could see it from a historical perspective. When we look back on the witch hunts of a few hundred years ago, we wonder how the masses ever got themselves set on such a self-destructive course, and why they allowed it to continue for so long. But when you're caught up in the drama of it all, it's sometimes hard to imagine life in any other way. So how long will we allow these witch hunts over intellectual property to continue?
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