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Knoppix To Split Into 'Light,' 'Maximum' Versions

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the when-they-meet-it's-a-happy-land dept.

Operating Systems 225

prostoalex writes "Everyone's favorite Knoppix project will be split into light and maximum editions, which should end the argument on whether the Live CD operating system should focus on small footprint, or greater support for external applications." From the linked ZDNet article: "'We will split the mainstream edition of Knoppix into two versions: a 'maximum' DVD edition with a complete Debian installation, and a 'light' edition on CD that contains the most popular desktop and server software only, for older computers or smaller systems that don't have a bootable DVD drive yet,' said Knopper."

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225 comments

Who? (-1, Troll)

the_mad_poster (640772) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144402)

I'm sorry... who is Jeremy Zawodny and why should I care if Knoppix is his favorite live cd? As far as I can tell, he's a MySQL bigshot, and that's not really saying so much, all things considered.

More importantly, perhaps, is why does the submitter seem to think he's "everybody"?

More to the specific point of the article, I still fail to see the allure of Live CDs. Does Knoppix actually boot without touching the hdds on the system, or does it do some footprinting on the disks? If it does use disk space - for virtual memory, for example, it's rather useless for anything other than a demo of Linux. While that's great if you're, say, demo'ing Linux for someone who's interested in moving to it, I don't understand what other practical purpose it serves that so much time should be devoted to it?

I can't be the only Slashdotter with this question. Perhaps someone could enlighten me?

Re:Who? (3, Informative)

Firehawke (50498) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144417)

You might want to download and actually give it a try. It doesn't touch the HD at all, making it perfect for data recovery or situations where you don't have permission to use the drive for personal use. It gives you a complete set of applications and leaves no residue on the system.

Re:Who? (5, Informative)

ticktockticktock (772894) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144653)

Actually, Knoppix does touch the drive if you have any swap partitions around. For any kind of forensics usage of Knoppix, pass it the "noswap" option.

Re:Who? (3, Informative)

frickenhell (643246) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144659)

It does actually touch the HDD. It mounts a swap partition if it exists.

I can only see this as bad if you have a suspended session saved on the swap partition. Think laptops.

Re:Who? (1, Informative)

calibanDNS (32250) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144418)

Knoppix is amazingly useful as a resuce resource. I can't always carry everything that I'd like with me when I might encounter a computer in need of repair. With a Knoppix CD on hand I have a great set of tools that can help to diagnose and repair many problems.

Re:Who? (0, Redundant)

PatrickThomson (712694) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144433)

It doesn't touch the disks, and it's useful for disaster recovery without dismantling the machine. Next question?

Re:Who? (1, Redundant)

zallus (714582) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144438)

A Live CD is configured to [usually] boot completely from RAM. In some configurations, it can even live there completely [the CD can be ejected].

Re:Who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144439)

AHAHAHA, you badmouthed MySQL!! You fit right into the elitest crowd here! +1 MILLION, INSIGHTFUL!!!

Re:Who? (5, Funny)

Olaserov (785074) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144458)

I can think of two fairly good reasons for always having a Live CD handy.

First, for those unfortunate incidents in which I screw up a new kernel compilation and lock myself out of my computer.

Second, for scaring the crap out of my computer teacher -- "What did you do to Windows? What the **** did you do to Windows?!?"

Re:Who? (1)

Taladar (717494) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144834)

For the first situation you don't want to use Knoppix but rather a Live Cd that matches your distribution closely and boots without all this crap like X and KDE or Gnome

Re:Who? (2, Interesting)

One Childish N00b (780549) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144872)

This reminds me of my first year of college, studying Computing as one of my subjects. Now my teacher for this was Welsh, and had absolutely no clue about anything not contained within the pages of his hideously out-of-date textbook. He even forced us to learn Pascal when there was C/C++ availible as a 'preferred equivalent' in the curriculum. One long year of being baby-walked through coding and compiling command-line apps with Borland TurboPascal 5.5 for Windows. Sheer Hell. So after wasting countless hours posting to /., reading bash.org and spending as little time as possible coding the crappy database app we were forced to make in probably the worst language I've ever had to code in, we decided to play a little trick on our Welsh tormen^H^H^H^H^H^Htutor - We'd pop a Knoppix CD into one of the few boxes in the room with a CD-ROM drive and wait for him to do his usual rounds. We expected him to go ballistic, but he didnt - He just stared open-jawed at the screen.

Why? Had he just experienced a sort of open-source epiphany? Was he mesmerised by the dubious beauty of the the KDE backgrounds? No - the reason he was gazing in quiet awe at the contents of the battered, flickering screen in the corner of the computing lab was he thought we'd made it ourselves. In Pascal.

Re:Who? (1)

EvanED (569694) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144513)

As others have said, you can boot Knoppix without it touching the hard drive (or even in a computer without one I assume), and in fact that's the default configuration. It is possible to tell it about a swap partition (or file I think), but it's unnecessary.

Any drives you have aren't even mounted at boot, though they do get desktop icons. Clicking them mounts the drive for use. (I forget about defaults regarding read vs. read/write; I think using the icons just gives you readonly.)

Re:Who? (1)

rzebram (828885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144693)

I'm assuming you're referring to the possibility of putting a swap file on a FAT partition, where Knoppix creates a file of user-specified size to use as swap on one of your partitions. After you're done with Knoppix, the file can simply be deleted.

More the point, who are you? (4, Insightful)

gtoomey (528943) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144561)

Knoppix has many uses, including:

- run Linux with/without a hard disk
- evaluate latest software
- password recovery - allows you to reset /etc/password or /etc/shadow
- file system fsck
- install to hard disk: you get Debian without the 'orrible Debian installer

Re:More the point, who are you? (2, Funny)

benna (614220) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144848)

- file system fsck

Isn't that a bit redundent?

Re:More the point, who are you? (2, Funny)

hunterx11 (778171) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144931)

Not really, because it uses Linux technology instead of NT technology.

Re:More the point, who are you? (1)

fiftyfly (516990) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145011)

- file system fsck

Isn't that a bit redundent?

Not really, because it uses Linux technology instead of NT technology.

Oh well since you put it that way I can totally see how this file system (F)ile(S)ystem(C)hec(K) comment offers no redundancy whatsoever. Thanks for clearing that up.

Re:More the point, who are you? (1)

AndreyFilippov (550131) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145071)

You forgot about another use - taking it to the computer store to check the hardware - is it Linux compatible?

Re:Who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144593)

i wish someone would mod you funny, so i could mod you down some more and rape your karma. /. keeps telling me its modded as low as its going

Re:Who? (1)

ope557 (454207) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144827)

I'll give you a great use for Knoppix. My father in-law was going to throw out his old laptop because the hard drive crashed and he wanted to buy a new one. Yes, he could have have just bought a new hard drive but that isn't the way he thinks...

Anyway, instead of throwing it out he let me take it. I popped in Knoppix and had instantly useful laptop for around the house. The only money I have put into it was a used 802.11g card from eBay. Knoppix is certainly not the speediest running off of a CD drive but it does the trick.

Another thing it works great for is people who are learning Unix and want to practice/poke around but no interest in installing Linux on their systems. For example, the place where I work supports the major Unix variations (Solaris, AIX, HP-UX) but we have a lot of support and tech people who know next to nothing about Unix. The company has lately been pushing these people to get up to speed and many are taking courses and trying to learn more. Thing is, they don't care about Unix that much and they won't be installing Linux on their home PC but they do want to practice what they have learned. Knoppix is perfect for them.

Re:Who? (1)

linhux (104645) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144904)

I actually literally never leave home without a Knoppix CD (at least not during the winter, when I have pockets big enough for a CD :-P). There has been just too many occasions where I have saved the day just by booting into Knoppix and fixing whatever's broken. With Captive NTFS, even most Windows problem can be solved safely.

I actually use Knoppix at this very moment, as I'm at a friend's place and I couldn't get the borrowed network card to work in Windows. So I whipped out the Knoppix CD from my jacket, and of course, it worked pretty much out-of-the-box.

first kumquat! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144411)

Who wants first post, when you can have first kumquat [slashdot.org]?

Re:first kumquat! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144485)

I love cumscat flavored Knoppenix.

\
========0
o

PS: The warhammer revolution has begun.

Re:first kumquat! (-1, Offtopic)

hfis (624045) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144686)

--; --; --; --;

Die!! --;

--; --; Death!!!

Hammer en masse!!!!!!! --; Death to warhammer!!! --; --; Allah is great we have anthrax are you afraid????

--;

Vive la hammer revolution.

Not so fast. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144766)

+ + + +
The tire iron revolution is at hand. Nobody can save you now.
+ + + +

Re:Not so fast. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144801)

\)_(/

Let's not be hasty. The wingnut revolution has begun.

\)_(/

Re:Not so fast. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144958)

$35B / 1 million "eyes" = $0 *
$35B / 12 IBM executives ~= $3B

Better hone those farming skills, knoppix.

\
========0
o

* see "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" in the religion section of the public library.

In slightly unrelated news, Netcraft shows a direct relation between cock sizes and hammer sizes.

-WARHAMMER

a good idea (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144416)

this is a great idea i use Knoppix a lot and frequently on old computers but having some additional features on a dvd would be great for higher end systems and simplify carrying a bunch of cds or downloading some utilities

Re:a good idea (3, Funny)

Bill_Royle (639563) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145066)

this is a great idea i use Knoppix a lot and frequently on old computers but having some additional features on a dvd would be great for higher end systems and simplify carrying a bunch of cds or downloading some utilities"

Is your version of Knoppix devoid of comma or period support? :)

Windows Manager (5, Interesting)

goofyheadedpunk (807517) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144421)

I'm curious, will Fluxbox be on this "light" disk? I ask because the summary says that the most 'popular desktop'. That would be KDE, but light it is not!

Re:Windows Manager (2, Informative)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144475)

Knoppix really needs fluxbox. I personally use it on my every day system(an AMD64 gaming machine) but when I am fixing computer at work I find KDE takes forever to load on knoppix, fluxbox would be really nice, and its small.

There are others too... (1)

Sensible Clod (771142) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144489)

Blackbox, twm, even enlightenment is pretty small. I bet all of these put together would fit just fine, and each merits being included for differing reasons.

Re:Windows Manager (5, Insightful)

jm92956n (758515) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144495)

I'm curious, will Fluxbox be on this "light" disk? I ask because the summary says that the most 'popular desktop'. That would be KDE, but light it is not!

Pure conjecture, but I expect the light CD would include KDE. I think the light CD will be quite similar to the latest Knoppix release, except with a variety of package updates. The maximum CD should have everything, including the token "kitchen sink"

It all depends upon your definition of an "older computer." Theirs, I think, is still in the P-III range (650 mhz - 1.8 ghz). Mine, however, is completely different. My primary computer is a Celeron 500 and I don't expect to upgrade any time soon. KDE is painful on my system, but other lightweight WM's run flawlessly. I beleive they're leave the "really eh'fin old" computer segment to distros like Damn Small Linux [damnsmalllinux.org] (which, incidentally, is a heavily stripped down version of Knoppix).

Re:Windows Manager (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144941)

>My primary computer is a Celeron 500 and I don't expect to upgrade any time soon.

aaaaaaarrrrrrggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!

please upgrade, trying to imagine such a slow computer physically hurts my brain!!!!!!!!!

Light is relative (1)

fireboy1919 (257783) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144532)

Linux doesn't take much space.

The lite edition still has 600MB to work with, and if they don't pack it full, it's not as useful as if they did. KDE would certainly be good to have, and they'll still have plenty of space to install it when they're done.

When I installed everything I might think about using (five window managers, gnome and kde versions of almost everything, etc) on my box compiled with -Os, I got about 3.7GB of programs. I can't wait to see the DVD-DL version of Knoppix. That should be able to contain almost every OSS app on Freshmeat.

DVD-5 vs. DVD-9 (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144555)

I can't wait to see the DVD-DL version of Knoppix.

I hope they continue to make a DVD-5 version even if they do make a DVD-9 version, as not all DVD+/-R drives that can record a DVD-5 can record a DVD-9.

Actually... (1)

kerbe6 (819780) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144423)

No hard drive is required to run the Knoppix live cd.

Re:Actually... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144444)

Oops, I replied to the wrong parent. :-/

Yes But... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144461)

Is it digitally signed?

Re:Yes But... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144796)

It is not signed by verisign, shame on u knoppix for delivery such unsecure product to the user.

Knoppix as Debian Installer (4, Interesting)

MsGeek (162936) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144466)

I know that Klaus Knopper doesn't see Knoppix as a Debian installer, but I think that he should take a second look at this, especially considering the idea of a "lite" and a "full" version of the Knoppix CD.

The "lite" version of the CD should allow for a simplified HD install, complete with Knoppix' superior hardware detection facility. Neither the official Debian Sarge installer nor the Ubuntu installer is as good as Knoppix for "figuring out" the hardware it's looking at. I don't know about Mepis because I've never used it.

Maybe if Herr Knopper won't do it, someone should fork Knoppix and do it for him.

Re:Knoppix as Debian Installer (4, Interesting)

UnderScan (470605) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144538)

Maybe if Herr Knopper won't do it, someone should fork Knoppix and do it for him.
Try Kanotix as one of the reasons it was forked from Knoppix was to allow a very easy Debian install.

Re:Knoppix as Debian Installer (1)

KingPunk (800195) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144950)

heh, when i bootstrap gentoo, im usually watching a movie over nfs,
so, it can already be a install cd if you will..
just gotta have some imagination ;)
:p

Shaking in his boots (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144577)

Dude, I'm sure Klaus is shaking in his boots at the veiled threat of "someone" forking Knoppix... there are only several dozen Knoppix-based projects at the moment. In any case, installing Knoppix to HD is insanely simple already:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=install+kno pp ix+to+hard+drive&btnG=Google+Search

A note on bloat (5, Insightful)

Animats (122034) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144490)

Operating systems expand to fill the available boot media.

Re:A note on bloat (2, Insightful)

IO ERROR (128968) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144534)

Operating systems expand to fill the available boot media.

No, they expand far past that. Seen SuSE lately? I remember when Red Hat was just TWO CDs, one of which was source, and SuSE came with SIX. I have no idea what they're up to now.

Of course, if you threw everything in Gentoo onto DVD, it would take up about 10 DVDs...20, with sources.

Even Windows isn't immune. Longhorn has outgrown even the 700MB CD, and will ship on DVD.

Re:A note on bloat (4, Insightful)

Bitsy Boffin (110334) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144643)

You are confusing "operating system" with "humungous distribution of non-essential software". Parent post too.

Re:A note on bloat (3, Interesting)

Mage Powers (607708) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145035)

A point that comes up on slashdot here and there, is where do you draw the line with linux? Whats really the "linux operating system"? kernel + coreutils isn't exactly a wholly useful setup. With windows its a bit more obvious, they give you a bunch of crap when you install it.

I just want to see a definition of "Linux operating system" even if its something variable like "a window manager, a calculator, a web browser, a shell, a kernel etc" just to add some clarification to the whole thing

But yea I agree with you that 6 cds is a "humungous distribution of non-essential software".

Re:A note on bloat (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144537)

> Operating systems expand to fill the available boot media.

As proven by
http://www.menuetos.org/
one floppy, with :
- Pre-emptive multitasking, multithreading, ring-3 protection
- Responsive GUI with resolutions up to 1280x1024, 16 million colours
- IDE: Editor/Macro Assembler for building kernel and applications
- TCP/IP stack with Loopback, PPP & Ethernet drivers
- Network applications include ftp/http/mp3/smtp servers,
- irc, http, nntp and tftp clients
- Free-form, skinnable application windows
- Hard real-time data fetch

NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144496)

first all your whiney "curse" mysticism is gone and now your stupid football team loses to the PATHETIC DOLPHINS

LOLOLOL

I R KOREA KEKEKE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144753)

Did you hear about Pedro Martinez? His little guy is pissed off and is not coming with him to New York. WTF is up with that guy? Is he a midget or does he have some kind of disease? He gives me the creeps. LOL at Tom Brady putting it up for grabs on his last drive (Stuart Scott: "What had happened was..."). Though he looks suspiciously like Matt Damon's and Ben Affleck's love-child. Damn New England metrosexual faggots.

Personally, I would love to see the Ravens go deep. But I know they will have to face some tough teams. Their defense is pretty good (gotta love Ray Lewis), but if anything happens to Jamal Lewis their offense is going to be dead in the watter; they have a tough enough time putting points on the board as it is.

My guilty pleasure is Jacked Up. Every Monday I look forward to 8:55 so much. It's dumb, but fun. I want to get jacked up my Ray Lewis. Ed Reed was on tonight; he jacked the shit out of somebody ("Hater in the house!"). It was great. I watch too much ESPN.

Umm... (4, Informative)

ccharles (799761) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144503)

which should end the argument on whether the Live CD operating system should focus on small footprint, or greater support for external applications.

Not likely. It'll just mean that each camp will have a disc that suits them.

You know, I love this... (5, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144540)

Microsoft is bitching about how people can't trust code that doesn't belong to them, Homeland security says we can't trust what should be a simple piece of software *by* them...

meanwhile, Knoppix is a wonderful, portable, safe, stable distribution that can go anywhere you do, and is so easy to use that my 87 year old grandmother who is so frial she can't leave her bed (we've had a hospital bed put in her room for her) can literally boot an old laptop (with DOS 6.2 installed) and use it to email and *even instant message* her grandson (me), who is 300km away.

And its free.

If there were *ever* a prime demonstration of what can be accomplished by OSS in action, surely Knoppix is that demonstration.

P.S. I told my grandmother about the microsoft-flaming-firefox thing... she said (and I quote, verbatim)"Someone should tell those... those... those Microstuff people (shes a little poor of hearing) to smarten up or be quiet."

Grandma, How I Love You.

Re:You know, I love this... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144599)

The world does not need more jackasses making up grandma stories.

What she really said was "when are you going to move out of the basement and get a job?"

Re:You know, I love this... (1)

nukem996 (624036) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144616)

heh I have my grandparents on Linux to. They really dont understand computers but they can run fedora and use e-mail and surf the web just fine. The only thing they do have trouble with is gimp(my grandfather is an artist), but hes tried a number of art programs and cannt get any of them.

*sniffle* (1)

EvilStein (414640) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144656)

That is the most beautiful thing I have ever seen here, oh anonymous one.

it made me proud to be an American! Won't someone please think of the grandmothers??

Re:*sniffle* (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144839)

While I agree with the general statement made by poster I am replying to, I must ask... what does that have to do with being American?

I am just curious... the same thing could, and does happen anywhere in the world... and Knoppix is not American...

Re:*sniffle* (1)

man_ls (248470) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145000)

and I'm willing to bet, at 300km away from his grandmother, he's not an American either.

Re:You know, I love this... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11145047)

But what does your Grandmother think of your homosexuality?

Personally, I just bought my Grammy a Dell w/ Windows. But I had the coin to spare ... I didn't have to spend it all on constant AIDS testing.

You fucking queer.

Lite and Maxium sucks because... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144564)

some of us want Medium!

Good grief, can't we have something in-between too-little and too-much?

What I'd like to see... (3, Insightful)

caferace (442) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144611)

A 'Lite' version that I can download quickly over a slow connection, burn to CD when I'm in "Oh Fuck" mode and don't have my kit with me.

A 'Behemoth' DVD I can keep in my kit, hopefully along with me excepting those "Oh Fuck" moments.

Re:What I'd like to see... (1)

UnderScan (470605) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144668)

Try DamnSmall for the Lite. Kanotix is rumored to have a DVD soon. You can customize Knoppix to make it as small or as big as you want. Check out the Remastering & Customization forum at Knoppix.net.

Re:What I'd like to see... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144680)

Um, you did read the article right? Did you even read the summary? OK... Did you read the TITLE?

bad call (-1, Redundant)

rsheridan6 (600425) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144658)

Now how am I going to show off linux to someone who doesn't have a bootable DVD?

Re:bad call (4, Insightful)

freeweed (309734) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144781)

Step 1: read the article
Step 2: failing this daunting undertaking, read the article summary:

We will split the mainstream edition of Knoppix into two versions: a 'maximum' DVD edition with a complete Debian installation, and a 'light' edition on CD that contains the most popular desktop and server software only, for older computers or smaller systems that don't have a bootable DVD drive yet

Step 3: Try to find mods who also read the article summaries before modding people up.

650MB "lite", or 700MB "lite"? (4, Interesting)

Yaztromo (655250) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144684)

I've played with Knoppix before, and think it's just amazing.

Just over a year ago, I inhereted an old K6-2 450Mhz box with a dead hard drive. As I had an old monitor kicking around, and as I typically hate having guests use any of my workstations, I decided to remove the hard drive and set the system up as a dedicated Knoppix box.

I dutifully downloaded the ISO and burned a CD, only to find that the machine in question had an old CD-ROM drive incapable of reading 700MB discs. So I was SOL (and eventually found Gnoppix [gnoppix.org], which did fit onto a 650MB disc this machine could boot).

I can't imagine I've been the only person to run into this issue with Knoppix, so I wonder if this new "lite" version will be designed to work on 650MB discs (although admittedly I had a bit of a rough time even finding such discs to burn that Gnoppix CD oh so long ago).

(And yes, I suppose I could spend a bit of money and buy a new CD-ROM drive for the machine, but it was a freebie, and is supposed to be a guest machine, so it isn't as if I'm personally hurting by not putting any money into it ;) ).

Yaz.

I have some cdrws that are only 650 (1)

zymano (581466) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144918)

So I too am looking for ISO's that will fit on them.

Damnsmalllinux ,have not tried.

Re:650MB "lite", or 700MB "lite"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144953)

Not a troll at all, but what if they went a step further? Those mini cds hold like 180 mb of data and the "business card" cds hold around 60 I believe. It looks like DamnSmallLinux could fit onto a business card cd with maybe 10 megs to spare. How's that for an impressive business card? 1 side has all your contact information the other can boot up DSL. It seems they beat me to the idea though and it's the first thing you see on their webpage http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/

p.s. If you cannot cut & paste by now you shouldn't be on slashdot.

DVD = slow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144690)

I believe that to use softwares from DVD would be much slower than from CD in many machines.
It would be useful not to compress the software in the DVD, but still I believe that in almost all the new computers, the time used by the CPU to uncompress, is smaller than the time used by the CD.

Re:DVD = slow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144774)

You are utterly wrong The speeds are different because the reference standard is different a 1x speed CD-ROM is the speed at which your CD player would play an audio CD. A 1x speed DVD is the speed a Video player would play a DVD (more or less).

What will they name the Blueray/HD-DVD editions? (2, Funny)

NZheretic (23872) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144717)

Up to 27 gigabytes of compressed Open Source source code and binaries in a live file system.

Don't worry about distribution - they will just send it to everybody as an email attachment.

Re:What will they name the Blueray/HD-DVD editions (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144808)

do we really need a 27gb live cd??

Re:What will they name the Blueray/HD-DVD editions (1)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145074)

Need - not really. But it could make life easier now and then.

I tried downloading Knoppix but (0)

zymano (581466) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144740)

my cd-rw are only 650 variety.
The knoppix iso needs 680. The hell if I know how to do an FTP install . Anyone do those ?

Re:I tried downloading Knoppix but (1)

novakreo (598689) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145014)

my cd-rw are only 650 variety.

You've mentioned it twice here. So burn to a 700Mb CD-R already! I've seen them as cheap as $0.30 Australian (if you buy 100), but in any case, a CD-R is certainly cheap enough to waste if Knoppix doesn't suit you.

I can write in Chinese (-1, Troll)

master_meio (834537) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144757)

Ching chang chiing chong

I'm awfully hungry

ching chang chang

I like noodles

Ching chang chuong choing ching chang ching chong

I work in a factory

ching ching chaing cheingI'm worried about taiwan

chang ching chang chong

I hope my wife will bear me a son this time

"Everyone's favorite Knoppix project..." (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11144879)

Well, now that it forked, I guess this'll be the last time you can say this with any certainty. ;)

How will this ultimately turn out? (1)

dteichman2 (841599) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144883)

With a "light" version and "maximum" version, the dev team might take the approach that "light" means "demo." In other words, they might leave some key features out of the "light" version that really should be in it. If that happens, people will complain and get what they want and the features they need. Or they will customize it and release it. I think that this could be a move that will start some off-shoots of Knoppix. It should be very good for Knoppix users.

How will this ultimately turn out?-A Murmer. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11145057)

As already mentioned there are off-shoots of Knoppix, and have been for awhile.

The other two options are you roll our own. Or a web interface to the server were you pick what you want, and it puts together a customized iso for you to download.

Since geeks are big on the "new model" I suspect the former will be the one offered.

Re:How will this ultimately turn out? (4, Insightful)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145061)

You're forgetting about one thing. This is Free Software. There's no motivation behind releasing crippled versions. You just try to make it best possible within specified limits.

And people will complain, yes. No matter what to do.

I think that this could be a move that will start some off-shoots of Knoppix. It should be very good for Knoppix users.

MORE KNOPPIX OFF-SHOOTS??? NOOOOOOO!
(do you have a clue how many different Knoppix off-shoots are out there? HUNDREDS!)

Is it just me? (-1, Offtopic)

mark-t (151149) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144885)

Or does the usage of "light" as an adjective that isn't referring to actual physical weight somehow seem wrong?

Isn't the contemporary adjective for this sort of usage these days "lite"?

Light, with that spelling, really speaks to me to being primarily either a noun or a verb, and only an adjective when used to describe something's actual, as opposed to metaphorical, weight.

How about "ultralight" CD for vintage-95 systems? (4, Interesting)

davidwr (791652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144893)

I work with a charity that gives donated computers to schoolchildren.

Unless there's a canned one out there, it looks like I'm going to have to roll my own "ultralight" CD to give away to people still running mid-90s hardware: 16-64MB RAM, 500MB-1GB HD, 2-4x CD if you are lucky, 14.4-33.6 modem if you are lucky, ISA or early-PCI sound card and video

Example software:
Lightweight web browser w/ Java - FF if it's not too heavy
Lightweight word processor that opens/saves MS-Word 95 files
Lightweight spreadsheet that opens/saves MS-Excel 95 files
Lightweight "presentation" program that opens/saves MS-Powerpoint 95 format

ssh, ftp, etc.
lightweight games
easy-to-use modem-dialer
cd-audio player/mixer
MS-Windows remote terminal services client

and of course support for all kinds of older hardware one might find on computers donated to charity.
Boot CD with a single floppy.

Anyone know of a canned Linux distro or bootable CD that fits my needs?

Anyone see any glaring ommissions from my software requirements?

FireFox Will Be A Challenge (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11145072)

Firefox, despite all of the marketing hype about how it is small, fast, secure, etc, is virtually unusable on old machines. My p3-700 takes about 2 seconds to create a new window in Linux. Scale down to a pentium 90 and you are looking at a 5-10 second delay. Windows98 IE would probably provide ~1-2 seconds in comparison (until it gets 0wned, anyway).

Sadly, the Linux firefox builds tend to be slower than Windows. I think W32 firefox uses GDI directly, but on Linux you get firefox built with the barely-optimizing GNU C++ compiler on top of GTK+ on top of ATK+ on top of GDK on top of xlib on top of a unix domain socket on top of an xserver on top of an unaccelerated video driver (because the video companies don't release docs).

The Linux desktop is over-abstracted and that fact really sucks for old hardware.

DVD version drawback... (2, Insightful)

Oliver Aaltonen (606410) | more than 9 years ago | (#11144935)

Being one of those unfortunate folks with less than 4GB RAM in their laptop, I won't be able to harness the performance offered by running Knoppix from a ramdisk with the toram cheat code.

Morphix, anyone? (2, Informative)

ghideon (720955) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145005)

Morphix, [morphix.org] which is what I've been basically using as "Knoppix-Lite," and it does the trick for me. I use the Light-GUI iso, which is about 200MB. It's basically a modular Knoppix (it is, in fact, based on Knoppix). You can also roll your own. Say, if you don't need the GUI module, you can opt for other modules. Pretty neat.

Re:Morphix, anyone? (2, Informative)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#11145048)

Been there, tried that, abandonned in favour of standard Knoppix. The problem with Morphix is the "modules" are pretty rigid structures, not quite easy to customize. Yes, you can "roll your own", like with everything open source. But plain "remastering" of vanilla Knoppix is much easier than building Morphix modules.
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