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Following up on Torrent Shutdowns

CmdrTaco posted more than 9 years ago | from the whats-going-down dept.

Censorship 1166

dantheman82 and others have submitted a number of links about the recent closure of torrent mega sites like suprnova and torrentbits. The Unofficial Suprnova Closure FAQ comments that some torrent site maintainers have been arrested and that Suprnova was closed over fear of similiar fate. DeHavilland notes that the finnish police raided an unnamed torrent site. There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

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What does mobilizing foreign police actually mean? (5, Informative)

enoraM (749327) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148553)

> There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is
> that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.
This would be scary, if you think that taking sites down was not just and legitimate. I don't know the facts about finish rights, but under german right suprnova could have been shut down.
It's not always the US pushing and picking on people and maybe it is not in this case. At least I believe, that the finnish police made it's own independent decision.
With Indymedia It actually seemed to be some tougher mobilizing:
http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/04/10/07/204217.shtml? tid=153&tid=219 [slashdot.org] This may or may not be the case with suprnova.

Re:What does mobilizing foreign police actually me (5, Informative)

ultrabot (200914) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148665)

At least I believe, that the finnish police made it's own independent decision.

That's what the Finnish police themselves say. What's interesting is that MPAA has been attempting to take the "credit" for the raid. Sure, everyone knows they are lying bastards, but one would expect them to pick lies that are not so easy to check...

Re:What does mobilizing foreign police actually me (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148670)

suprnova was based in slovinia. not germany.

Re:What does mobilizing foreign police actually me (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148843)

This would be scary, if you think that taking sites down was not just and legitimate.

No, it's scary full-stop. The problem isn't that the sites were shut down, it's that police have been arrseting people. This should be a civil matter, not a criminal one. I was under the impression that copyright infringement was only a criminal matter in the USA - what are local police doing getting involved? It should be lawyer letters to their ISP, not people with guns coming to take you away.

Re:What does mobilizing foreign police actually me (0, Redundant)

davesplace1 (729794) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148875)

Just wait till the Microsoft Empire strikes back, better hope the Lunix Jedi Knights show up too :)

Unified World Government anyone? (1, Insightful)

RKBA (622932) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148558)

So that makes two of us who are opposed to a unified world government. [un.org]

Re:Unified World Government anyone? (2, Funny)

Itchy Rich (818896) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148677)

So that makes two of us who are opposed to a unified world government. [un.org]

Don't you mean unified world government [halliburton.com] [halliburton.com]?

Exactly (1, Insightful)

ShatteredDream (636520) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148735)

The public has a hard enough time in most first world nations keeping the governments that are over them in check, now imagine a global bureacracy. Ever wonder why it is that so many parties are opposed to the WTO? The irony of it is that the WTO, GATT, NAFTA and other deals are opposed usually by the most rabidly capitalist groups for this very reason. It's usually the "moderates" (whatever the hell that means), "liberals" (in America) and others with no strong support of property rights that support these groups. Michael Badnarik for example, opposed our involvement in all three of those groups [issues2000.org] and probably the UN as well for those reasons.

Face it, global government exists only to serve global elites. If you think that the UN really cares about the poor and destitute, then ask why Kofi Annan and company were personally involved in the Oil for Food scandal. "Mr. America sucks because we're rich and powerful" who then turns around and dips from a food fund for poor, literally starving Iraqi children. This is the face of global government. He won't get nailed by the ICC, but private Joe Smith who shoots a civilian under questionable circumstances will be all but denied due process under the ICC.

Global government: the worst of capitalism and communism mixed together under one roof, with no accountability and ultimately no pretense of the rule of real law.

Re:Exactly (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148786)

So True. The best form of government is a mixture of strong local governments and a weak federal government. That way, if something screws up in your area, you know who to blame, the local government.

Basically, Devolution of government all the way!

Re:Exactly (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148844)

I see, so the fact that Kofi Annan's son was involved in the Oil for Food scandal means the UN is bad. Does the fact that Ronald Reagan was probably involved in the Guns for Hostages for Money for Contras scandal mean that the US is bad?

Re:Unified World Government anyone? (1)

lucabrasi999 (585141) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148744)

So that makes two of us who are opposed to a unified world government.

Yeah! I saw some black helicopters flying overhead earlier today. They were filled with DEA agents!

Irony? (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148570)

please note that if you are viewing this faq at any other location than http://www.silentdragz.net/suprfaq then it is not authorised. please report it to this address, thank you.

Isn't it slightly ironic [slashdot.org] a site, outlining the demise of a site to enable IP violations, is worried about someone stealing [slashdot.org] their IP?

Re:Irony? (4, Insightful)

tomjen (839882) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148758)

How many times must it be said?
It is not stealing it is copyrigth infrigment.

Re:Irony? (5, Insightful)

lothar97 (768215) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148782)

Isn't it slightly ironic a site, outlining the demise of a site to enable IP violations, is worried about someone stealing their IP?

No it's not. Getting the word out that the 'official' FAQ is located at one address, then it's made known that other versions located elsewhere could be modified, changed, etc. I imagine there's a lot of disinformation flying around about this topic right now, and they want to make sure everyone knows where the proper resource is located.

Re:Irony? (3, Insightful)

SlayerofGods (682938) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148850)

That's more of hypocrisy than irony.
I sware, no one really knows what irony means.

numbers?? (5, Interesting)

usernotfound (831691) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148572)

Someone should put up some stats about the change in internet traffic due to these sites being down. I'm sure somebody is in charge of a university network or something?

If BT was accounting for 35% of traffic, what's it at now? Still declining?

Did anyone NOT expect this? (5, Insightful)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148582)

I mean, c'mon. They were ostentatiously peddling links to illegal stuff. It was only a matter of time until the MPAA got its act together to scare these sites into shutting down, with little more than a threat. The submission of these sites (pun unintended) is what's scary.

Re:Did anyone NOT expect this? (4, Insightful)

Donoho (788900) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148760)

Yup, only a matter of time.

But this has little to do with right and wrong and much more to do with balance of power. Those with money and infrastructure (MPAA is only an example) will do everything in their power to maintain control over profitable media. Are content producers being hurt by torrents? Marginally. I think a balance will be struck in the distant future where content providers and consumers interact directly, with publishers taking diminished (not eliminated) role. Half-Life 2 is an early example.

Abuses will diminish when the proper channels are available.

Re:Did anyone NOT expect this? (2, Interesting)

njwashor (532769) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148872)

MPAA == Motion Picture Association of America America != Finland. QED: MPAA did not shut these sites down.

Unofficial Suprnova Closure FAQ Closure FAQ (1)

holzp (87423) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148585)

see, slashdot effect.

Wow (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148590)

I can really say this is scarry. I mean, huge. I have never felt this way since 9/11, and that's saying a lot. This is really bad for free distrabution of information. Lets hope the EFF gets on this.

i heard (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148593)

i heard shitdot will get shut down because Richard "Nambla" Malda is a chile molester

Re:i heard (0, Offtopic)

mmkkbb (816035) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148694)

Pinochet would be the Chile molestor.

Re:i heard (1)

homerules (688184) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148718)

That would burn.

unofficial? (4, Funny)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148594)

So this is the "unofficial" one... but it's authorized? Or rather, they want you to report any other ones as not being authorized? Authorized by who? The same people who say it's unofficial?

I'm confused...

Re:unofficial? (2, Interesting)

theskeptic (699213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148717)

I wonder what will will happen to piratebay.org.. If the raids can happen in finland, then sweden cant't a pirate haven.

legal letters [thepiratebay.org]

Will they get a taste of their own medicine? ;)

Donvitorrent (3, Informative)

Tribbin (565963) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148600)

I find this one a good substitute:

http://www.donvitorrent.com/ [donvitorrent.com]

Re:Donvitorrent (1)

Golgafrinchan (777313) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148721)

This is merely a mirror of bi-torrent.com [bi-torrent.com] , which is a mirror of suprnova.org's links.

Not that scary (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148601)

"There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding."

Well, I'm not sure how it's scary. If I'm the owner of some digital item that has a copyright on it and some other country where copyrights are valid has people breaking it I hope the police would do something about it.

Are you scared ... ? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148654)

I wonder why you didn't use your real name to put forth this information ...

Doing their bidding (5, Insightful)

nwbvt (768631) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148605)

Thats what law enforcement agents exist for. To enforce the law. If in these cases the law was indeed broken (I don't personally know the details), then they were doing their job.

What did you think they were paid to do, pull over and beat minorities?

Re:Doing their bidding (1)

CodeWanker (534624) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148679)

Uh... There ARE no minorities in Finland.

Re:Doing their bidding (3, Insightful)

Ziviyr (95582) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148683)

What did you think they were paid to do, pull over and beat minorities?

The moment someone makes unbeaten minorites illegal, yes.

I guess the issue is (1)

Lifewish (724999) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148726)

that this all seems to hinge on some rather dodgy legal decisions (120 year copyright anyone?) and to be very similar to the much-loathed approach of barratry.

Personally, I have trouble believing that the behaviour of these governments is in the interests of the majority, or, for that matter, anyone other than the RIAA fatcats. And that would imply that somewhere down the line there's been an abuse of the democratic process (no shit...).

Re:I guess the issue is (4, Insightful)

nwbvt (768631) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148788)

You can criticize the law all you want, I'm not about to debate the pros and cons of IP law on /. (hey, my karma has to be worth something), but the fact is copying protected works is illegal. Thus it is the job of the cops to enforce that law.

Re:Doing their bidding (1)

Loco3KGT (141999) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148765)

No no, that would be taking jobs away from other minorities!

(I guess you'll only find that joke funny if you know who Reginald Denny is:

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/US/04/28/la.riot.an ni versary/ )

Re:Doing their bidding (5, Insightful)

Martin Blank (154261) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148778)

There is the issue of civil vs. criminal law. Police should not, IMHO, be involved in enforcing civil law to any greater extent than ensuring compliance with court orders (sheriffs or marshals accompanying people seeking to get property returned, for example, if violence is a reasonable possibility).

Until recently, copyright law in the US was a purely civil matter (I cannot speak for other nations). While I shed no tears for the sites that have shut down whether under actual or possible threat of litigation, I do object to using the police to enforce these kinds of things. They should be working on other things related to public safety, and even in the safe cities of Europe, I'm sure there are open cases, and even cold cases, that could be worked rather than sending them to do what the lawyers should be doing.

Re:Doing their bidding (4, Insightful)

Spad (470073) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148805)

But the point is that in some of these cases, at least, no laws were being broken - not in the country of operation no, most likely in the US (although it's getting pretty tough not to break any laws there these days).

The MPAA et al are getting foreign law enforcement agencies to arrest people will little or no evidence that they've actually committed a crime in the coutry that they're being arrested.

That's like me ringing up the French police and demanding that they raid someone in France that I think might have some involvement in the unauthorised distribution of my "IP". I'd be laughed off the phone.

Re:Doing their bidding (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148811)

In the U.S. (at least) the cops are supposed to pull over and beat drug-users. After all, there is a War on Drugs. No wait... I mean a War on Terrorism. Shit. I always get those two confused.

Gmail Invites (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148608)

LOL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148684)

Nice camouflage. Thanks a ton, mate :H

unnamed finish site (5, Informative)

f4k3r (642406) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148613)

the "unnamed site" that was raided was FinReactor, there was a video (of something) about it on thepiratebay a few days ago

Re:unnamed finish site (5, Informative)

Keruo (771880) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148709)

and despite of MPAA claims, it had absolutely nothing to do with the raid
National Bureau of Investigation(KRP) made announcement that they(MPAA) were trying to fish off free publicity from their investigations, and had nothing to do with the shutdown

Listing substitute sites? Smart (1, Interesting)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148621)

Not! The author of the FAQ must really want the other torrent sites to disappear, as well, or else he wouldn't be listing them for the MPAA to hunt after.

Re:Listing substitute sites? Smart (1)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148689)

One of my favorites is on that list ... and now I fear for it's existence. :(

That was probably the least intelligent part of that FAQ.

Re:Listing substitute sites? Smart (4, Insightful)

daniil (775990) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148774)

What makes you think MPAA didn't already know of the existence of these sites before this list was posted?

Re:Listing substitute sites? Smart (1)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148867)

Well they may have already known about them - but this list just screams "look at me! look at me!" ... so these will draw even more attention now. Plus, having a list like this may say to MPAA/etc that these are the "good" ones that people are recommending and then they may figure out which ones to go after first.

They are everywhere (2, Insightful)

Zeroth_darkos (311840) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148623)

There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

MPAA & friends have offices in these countries and they use the laws that are available to them.

Re:They are everywhere (1)

Zeroth_darkos (311840) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148855)

Or to correct myself: There is similiar organisations that "protect the rights" of the Copyright holders.

Although there have been reports that the police took action based on their own decisions, in the finnish case. I can imagine local Copyright holders reported them to the police though.

BooHoo (2, Insightful)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148625)

Boohooohoo American Corporations can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

What kind of fairy land do you live in? These sites were CLEARLY offering illegal content. Was it wrong now for the corporations to shut them down? OMG The corporations are out to get us! They don't want us to get their intellectual property for free anymore, whaat?? we have to pay?!!?! ONOS!!!!

Seriously people, Im pretty sure most people here aren't that naive to think that shutting down these sites was "the wrong thing to do", so why come up with these doomsday saying articles?

Media in 2014, you see the news you want to see I guess. I guess everyone here just wants to here about how evil M$ are, and horrible EA is, and woohooo go Open Source and whatnot.
The truth hurts.

Re:BooHoo (2, Funny)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148711)

I ment "hear about how evil M$ are" Before all you grammer/spelling nazis come.

Re:BooHoo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148761)

What's so illegal about TV torrents again?

Re:BooHoo (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148835)

Ohh yeah, lets not forget the video game torrents, the movie torrents, the music torrents, the book torrents, the operating systems torrents, the software torrents....

Yeah lets all hide it behind TV torrents...

Like I said, You hear what you want to hear. You also hide everything behind that. "Lets forget about everything illegal these torrent sites had and lets only mention TV torrents!"

There are never 2 sides to a story. There are only Facts.

Media in 2014 sir, Media in 2014...

Re:BooHoo (1, Insightful)

mav[LAG] (31387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148823)

It might interest you to know that until 1891 the US was a "nation of pirates" that didn't respect foreign copyrights. This was - and is - a healthy thing: developing nations develop by taking foreign ideas.

Re:BooHoo (1)

WhatAmIDoingHere (742870) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148858)

You must be new here.

all of your police are belonged to U.S. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148626)

>>but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

all of your police are belonged to U.S.!!!!

Welcome to the Pax Americana (0, Flamebait)

Mudcathi (584851) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148629)

There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

Not surprising, given this was proceeded by American oil owners mobilizing foreign military forces to do their bidding.

Hollywood only plays at being liberal - when it gets right down to the nitty gritty dark underside of capitalism, they can be every bit as nasty as the robber barrons on Wall Street.

Re:Welcome to the Pax Americana (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148662)

Yeah, they are certainly robber barrons, those damned capitalists trying to make money off of their work... Who would have though of such a thing!?

It is about time (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148640)

This "trading" (theft) of copyrighted material needs to stop. Many of us depend on making money from this IP for income. As an independent software developer, I have seen my individual income from software sales drop from $1.25 million annually five years ago, to under $800,000 this year.

This has a large effect on who I can hire, and how I can grow my business.

Re:It is about time (0, Flamebait)

Mudcathi (584851) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148703)

As an independent software developer, I have seen my individual income from software sales drop from $1.25 million annually five years ago, to under $800,000 this year.

5 years ago? That would have been just before the dot com bust, when idiots with buckets of cash were spending free money like Soupy Sales threw confetti. Not to say that your software isn't any good, but consider how the entire IT market cookie has crumbled, and not just your own meager piece.

Re:It is about time (1)

MoonBuggy (611105) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148851)

Out of interest, do you know that it is coprright infringement which has affected your income? Could the continual rise and maturity of FOSS in the past 5 years also have affected the purchasing of licenses for your software? Has a 'big name' come in and marketed a competing product?

It sounds as though this might be an issue of causation vs. correlation. Unfortunately it's probably impossible for you to know all of the possible causes and the actual change they created, so it's very hard to tell whether you lost $400,000 to infringement or whether you lost $50,000 to infringement and $350,000 to free software.

Good. (4, Insightful)

ThousandStars (556222) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148653)

but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

To me, what is most scary is that people think they flaunt copyright laws on such a massive scale and get away with it.

Furthermore, this is exactly what should be happening: the government attacks those who break the law, rather than those who create the tools. Bit torrent and p2p applications have legal, useful purposes; by seeking those who use them in illegal ways rather than banning them altogther is appropriate, rather than trying to ban them.

Re:Good. (1)

spookyfluke (254600) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148799)

So, is this [google.ca] illegal?

Re:Good. (4, Interesting)

harrkev (623093) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148804)

I agree. If this sort of thing curbs piracy, then maybe the four-letter organizations will calm down about DRM.

Shutting down a torrent sites which feature copyrighted movies and music annoys those who just want something for nothing. DRM hurts everybody, and especially every geek.

It is a given that the MPAA, RIAA, etc. are going to do SOMETHING. I would rather have them do this than add copy protection to every A/D converter made.

Re:Good. (2, Interesting)

flex941 (521675) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148838)

Furthermore, this is exactly what should be happening: the government attacks those who break the law, rather than those who create the tools. Bit torrent and p2p applications have legal, useful purposes; by seeking those who use them in illegal ways rather than banning them altogther is appropriate, rather than trying to ban them.

Posting some obscure file with .torrent extension attached to the end of filename should be legal too.

Saying otherwise will only bring ultimate doom of our society a little bit closer.

MPAA had nothing to do with the finnish raids (5, Informative)

edgrale (216858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148660)


Actually it has been reported that MPAA had NOTHING to do with the finnish raids.
The KRP (Keskusrikospoliisi = FBI?) has publicly said that the MPAA has not been in contact with the finnish authorities. Here is a site [itviikko.fi] (in finnish) that says it all.

Re:MPAA had nothing to do with the finnish raids (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148687)

Don't let the facts interfere with a good Slashdot rant you fool!

Re:MPAA had nothing to do with the finnish raids (1)

CK2004PA (827615) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148773)

Doesn't matter. everything is America's fault...don't you get it? Anything that goes wrong, anywhere in the world, is America's fault. Once you realize that all Americans are evil and all bad things are a direct result of America then you will understand his logic. Did I mention that the whole world doesn't think much of American culture or what it produces? The whole world lives on their own values and products. they don't have any relation to America, use any of its products or ideas/concepts. Nor does America have any control over anything in "their land". But America causes all things evil and bad! Hmm...nice logic! You see, they need a bogeyman. Without the US of A, they'd have to bash the French, which is just tooooo easy!

Re:MPAA had nothing to do with the finnish raids (3, Funny)

harrkev (623093) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148868)

Well, can you blame them? We gave the world Microsoft, McDonalds, Britney Spears, and the Jackson family. I am surprised that they are not bombing us right now!

Re:MPAA had nothing to do with the finnish raids (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148795)

I love this quote in the article that means basically:

"- It seems that MPAA has taken credit for our actions. They have not contacted us, and we have no investigations planned based on such things", says inspector Vesa Isokuortti.

Everybody else blames or credits the MPAA but the police themselves :)

like it's going to help (2, Interesting)

usernotfound (831691) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148663)

Sloncek decided to take SuprNova.org off line voluntarily. This will allow him and his fellow administrative staff to concentrate on other projects without worry of prosecution.

Do you think the MPAA really cares if you're still doing it?

I wasn't speeding when the cops pulled me over...

Finnish copyright holders (3, Interesting)

ahbi (796025) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148672)

As much fun as American bashing is ... let us not forget that these companies are international and hold copyrights in Finland and most of the rest of the world.

I doubt anyone was arrested in Finland for breaking solely US law. I am sure the Finnish police had a Finnish law to justify the arrests.

With their constant outsourcing (to AU & CN, to name two popular movie studio outsource winners), these "American copyright holders" don't seem too interested in actually doing the US any favours.

countries beyond jurisdiction? (2, Interesting)

fulana_lover (652004) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148674)

I think many of the European countries wouldn't allow RIAA/MPAA/etc to go after individual downloaders, but would after the centralized tracker servers. However, what about re-locating to places like Russia, Eastern Europe, south america, etc? Not physically of course but the servers. Alternatively is anyone working on a more transparent P2P system? The advantages of BT (fast speeds, built in incentives to share upload speed) with higher levels of anonymity and a more distributed tracker? Its ironic that the movie, TV, and recording industry have this vast opportunity here (lots and lots of people worldwide want to see your stuff!) but cannot capitalize on it. I'd pay a few bucks a month if I could download whatever I wanted and see it whenever I wanted without going to crappy movie theaters or sitting in front of the couch when the TV execs want me to, but I guess thats heresy. (yes, I have a mythTV box)

Re:countries beyond jurisdiction? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148871)

Problem is, MPAA, et al isn't interested in "just a few bucks"

as corporations, they want as much money as possible
and presumably don't see any increase in revenue if they switch over to such a all you can eat distribution system

oh well. (2, Interesting)

Quasar1999 (520073) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148675)

It sucks that they shutdown the web sites... but IRC will forever remain the unstoppable force when it comes to obtaining illegal files... whether it's FTP, or torrents... IRC will always have the info available... Perhaps it's a good thing that the websites are being shutdown... Napster became too popular, killed the free MP3 system... The same thing happend to DirecTV and DISHNET... too easy for joe q. public to obtain pirated signals, again too popular... If we keep the methods of obtaining illegal things difficult, it keeps the popularity down, and more or less off the radar screen... Now I personally stopped pirating a while back... but my reasoning for it in the first place was the challenge... Now a days it's just a click here and a click there, and presto... what's the fun in that? I enjoyed the challenge more than the results... besides... 99% of the illegal stuff out there is GARBAGE anyways... and the stuff that isn't you need to purchase to actually use it...

mod u4 (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148681)

they want you 7o [goat.cx]

a legal puzzle (2, Interesting)

Prophetic_Truth (822032) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148682)

IANAL, but it seems odd that these sites which distribute the torrents can be held liable for the torrent's contents. The sites never actually host the copyrighted material, same goes for the trackers of the torrents. It would seem to me that the seeds of torrents would be the ones who are violating copyright law. But it is a shady practice, I dont know if I would really want the EFF to get involved with this one.

copyright is not american only (5, Insightful)

harlows_monkeys (106428) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148691)

There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding

Generally, those "American copyright owners" are also the German copyright owners, and the French copyright owners, and the Japanese copyright owners, and the Russian copyright owners. About the only place they aren't the copyright owners is Gilligan's Island.

Hand vote time (1, Flamebait)

ChipMonk (711367) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148693)

All in favor of a missile strike against the MPAA, raise your right hands.

OK, now all those in favor of leaving in place a price-fixing organization of questionable political practices and shoddy professional demeanor, raise your right hands.

I'm sorry, you must have thought I was talking about the Bush administration. Let's try again.

All those in favor of defending organizations whose acronyms consist of four letters ending in "-AA", raise your right hands.

The U.S. and Finnish cases are unrelated (1)

CortoMaltese (828267) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148697)

According to a Finnish news site http://www.digitoday.fi/ [digitoday.fi] (in Finnish), the cases are unrelated. At least this is the official statement of the Finnish Central Crime Police. The Finnish investigation was started a couple of months ago by request of an unnamed instance whose rights were violated. The unconfirmed assumption is that the request was made by Microsoft (of Finland).

Information security (2, Funny)

jerometremblay (513886) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148701)

My favorite part is:
If you are viewing this FAQ at any other location than http://www.silentdragz.net/suprfaq then it is not authorised.


Now, THAT is information I can trust. :)

Due Process (1, Interesting)

randalx (659791) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148704)

Does due process still exist? Shouldn't this basically be a civil matter? Shouldn't the issues be put before the court so each country can apply their version of copyright laws and see how they apply to the posting of torrent links on a web site? Could some IANAL types please expalin it to me so I can stop being so naive!

Freenet? (5, Interesting)

caffeine_monkey (576033) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148705)

Freenet is probably too slow to recreate a site like Suprnova, but how about this. Instead of using Freenet to distribute each individual torrent, could you publish on Freenet a torrent that contains other torrents? For instance, a torrent for each category of files, like what was on Suprnova - a "Movies-Drama" torrent that contained a zipped file of all torrents in that category? This way, you wouldn't be relying on Freenet to distribute every torrent file, just a much smaller index of torrents.

If somebody wanted to take ownership of this, they could create a Freenet page with an anonymous feedback form. When somebody has a torrent to publish, they could submit the info to the anonymous form, and then the publisher would compile all the new torrents into the next version of the index.

Sound feasible?

Slippery Slope (5, Interesting)

BalorTFL (766196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148714)

I've seen a lot of comments on this around "the internets" (yep, all of them ;), and most of them seem to be of the "noooooo... not my warez! Come back!" variety. To me, though, the better question is where the line is drawn. When the sites that -link- to trackers that -allow- people to download -possibly illegal- files from -each other- get shut down, I get worried. How long will it be until any technology that is used for illegal deeds is at risk?

Real World Censorship (1)

SloWave (52801) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148715)


The heavy and cruel hand of corporate censorship strikes again. Human rights are again overshadowed by the inhuman rights of these multinational monsters known as the MPAA and RIAA.

Got the ill communication (1)

neural cooker (720830) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148716)

We should also shut down the phone system because people can use it to share pirated ideas.

This isn't new. Remember anon.funet.fi? (3, Informative)

i_want_you_to_throw_ (559379) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148727)

Everyone remember when anon.funet.fi [venona.com] was raided at the request of scientology?

With enough money to fund attorneys you can apparently get other countries, especially the Finnish, to comply.

The age old Question... (1)

JossiRossi (840900) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148732)

As has been, and will be more, clear here is that the world has such different views on how property works. There's those who own the movies, and they want to squeeze every penny regardless of if it destroys the franchise. Then there are those who make the movies who themselves may be about money or they may be about the art. The creation of something that is worthy to share with the world. And finally there are the viewers. Do we need to pay to see a movie, something for entertainment. If it sucks do we in a way boycott the movie, or if we enjoy do we go and buy the movie anyway as a sign of gratitude. Or perhaps we simply can not buy the movie, don't we deserve to see it? All in all like this post it is too confusing to answer. But we whatever the answer we know the eventual outcome. The people who make the money win. While the viewer is out in the cold, no matter how many anonymous file sharing networks he may make or use, he will always lose; right or wrong.

Heard of Piracy right? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148763)

Since they were hosting what amounted to links for pirted games/software, I think they got what they deserved. They can't say they didn't know people were using the torrents to download pirated software when the descriptions were right there.

I would imagine that any country that has any type of software lobby wouldn't need too much prodding to shut down a site like that. What they were doing pretty much amounts to aiding in thievery. Now maybe if they stuck to stuff that wasn't pirated software/movies they wouldn't be having such problems.

As they were, they'll get no pity from me. They knew what they were doing, knew it was against the law and did it anyway. If they didn't understand the consequences (being sued and such) then they better grow up quick and understand if you're robbing companies than you better believe they're going to get you eventually.

Cheers

Scary Perspective (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148769)

> There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what
> is most scary is that American copyright owners
> can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

Probably about as scary as being the copyright holder of original works being distributed globally for free against your wishes.

Wonder what they made in ads over the years. (1)

Sark666 (756464) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148771)

Suprnova was up 2 years. I'm somewhat curious as to what a site with that much traffic would have made in ad revenue.

Anyone have a rough idea?

Good news! (1, Insightful)

d_jedi (773213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148784)

Those sites were havens for illegal material. The administrators of those sites had ample opportunity (and the ability) to remove torrents that linked to copyrighted material.. but they chose not to.

Good riddance to bad rubish.

Unfortunate (1)

ThePyro (645161) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148789)

The sad part is that there were a fair amount of non-infringing torrents available through these sites. Obviously not the bulk of the content, but still a significant number of files.

It would be nice if one these places could be resurrected as a source for all sorts of legal torrents, but somehow I doubt many of the admins (or users, for that matter) would consider it worth the effort.

Yes, it's all the Americans... (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148793)

(rolls eyes) If you've seen a recordedmovie through legitimate channels in the past 2 decades, you've seen the copyright warning. This warning invariably says something about how the members of some mysterious fascist organization called "Interpol" voted unanimously to enforce copyrights. It may also mention the Berne convention as reason or impetus to do this.

Hint 1: The "inter" in "Interpol" stands for "international".

Hint 2: Berne isn't even remotely in the US.

Surely there could have been a better protocol (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11148810)

... than bittorrent for such sites. If I recall, one of the features of BitTorrent was that it _did_ let you know where the source of your stuff was.

Not the scary thing (2, Insightful)

aengblom (123492) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148817)

There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding.

No, that's not the most scary thing. Many here will critisize the current incarnation of near perpetual copyright and many will critisize how the Big Media have treated that right--as well as their customers.

But to say that I -- as an American -- should not be able to protect a work of art/media across a foreign boundry is a pretty extremest view. And in my view, it would be quite harmful.

Remember the ability to create your own terms of an open source project is made possible only because the creator is GRANTING those rights to add, change and distribute source code. It's copyright that protects that code from just being taken by Microsoft without the company agreeing to contribute back to the project.

Copyright is also what protects some huge media corp from stealing a young artist's song without even "signing" him. They just take it and give it to Pop Artist #122b.

What scares ME is that this is an attack on the freedom of speech and information. SuprNova was linking to illegal media, but it wasn't hosting it. It should not be illegal to say where the red light district is and it shouldn't be illegal to point someone to one of the prostitutes.

It should only be illegal when one actually gets into the act.

BBC Article (2, Informative)

Richie1984 (841487) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148818)

The BBC has an interesting article [bbc.co.uk] on the suject of SuprNova going down, as well as some general information on BitTorrent and the MPAA.

International Copyright Law (4, Insightful)

StormReaver (59959) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148837)

"There's a lot of scary things here, but to me what is most scary is that American copyright owners can mobilize foreign police to do their bidding."

Perhaps dantheman82 needs to understand the concept of international copyright law. Many countries, including those in the story, have agreements to enforce each other's copyrights.

The sites being shut down were rampantly violating the copyrights of an organization big enough to fight back.

What's scary is that the submitter thinks shutting these sites down is somehow wrong and unjust. There are a lot of things wrong with the big music companies, but this is not one of them.

If there's something to be angry about, be angry that these governments wouldn't take the time and effort to protect your small time products in the same manner they protect the big big time products.

Google Next! (1)

spookyfluke (254600) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148839)

And this [google.ca] is why!

You gotta wonder.... (2, Insightful)

Newer Guy (520108) | more than 9 years ago | (#11148859)

You gotta wonder why with all the crime, terrorism and other nasties all over he world, why SO MANY RESOURCES that could be used for more worthwhile things are used to increase the profits of the fat cats (in other words, make the fat cats even fatter). If I recall, the motion picture industry had a record year in 2003, and is on track to have 2004 be even better.

Yet, more people then ever before have no health insurance, more children then ever are starving, AIDS is running rampant all over Africa, American kids are dying every day in Iraq because the govt. can't provide the proper armored vehicles, more Americans are homeless then ever before, people are having heart attacks from Aleve, gas and heating oil is almost twice what it was a year ago, and on and on.

What is America's response to this? To ignore all of the above and concentrate on such "important" things as busting movie and song 'pirates', drugs, and Janet Jackson's nipple.

Something is wrong and really, really fucked up in America

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