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Welcome to the Future of DRM Media

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the and-no-sneaking-in-popcorn dept.

Media 734

MrFancyPants writes "'DRM, digital rights management, is quite possibly the holy grail of the music and movie industry, allowing them to control exactly how DRM protected content is used, distributed and above all can be tracked right down to the individual end user.' Hardware Analysis reports on a horror story of someone picking up a DVD recently and having to go through an agonizing process of installing DRM-enabled applications to even get it to play on his computer. If this is what the future holds, you'd better think twice about buying DVDs and other media, as you're basically at the mercy of the producer."

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DRM SUCKS (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158047)

DRM SUCKS

More About DRM (3, Informative)

the_mighty_$ (726261) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158051)

If you want all the details about DRM, you can find them here:

http://www.dlib.org/dlib/june01/iannella/06iannell a.html [dlib.org]

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_rights_manage ment [wikipedia.org]

Re:More About DRM (2, Insightful)

static0verdrive (776495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158214)

I'd rather download the theater rip than put up with this invasion...

self-correcting problem (5, Insightful)

MadCow42 (243108) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158065)

People pay money for products that suit their needs. If a product fails to meet the needs of the user, they can:

- bitch and complain
- return the product
- don't buy such products in the future.

If what the xxAA sells suits the needs of enough customers, they'll be successful with it. If they're overly restrictive then they'll fail. Obviously they think that most consumers won't mind the limitations, or even notice them.

Is that so difficult to understand? Just because YOU can't rip a DVD doesn't mean that the MPAA will care.

MadCow.

Re:self-correcting problem (5, Insightful)

derEikopf (624124) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158111)

Only one movie is released by one company. If you really like a movie, you don't have a choice between companies--you're stuck with one. That's why we're at such a disadvantage.

Re:self-correcting problem (3, Insightful)

LibertyLovesCompany (842682) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158171)

Agreed. However, as a consumer you can choose not to purchase that movie. If enough consumers go this route because DRM is too restrictive or doesn't meet their needs then DRM attempts such as this will fail. That's the way a free-market works. You don't HAVE to buy that move, you know...

Re:self-correcting problem (4, Insightful)

pedestrian crossing (802349) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158226)

But the point of the article is that these requirements weren't laid out up front, it was just one thing after another after he had already purchased the DVD.

Re:self-correcting problem (1)

mmkkbb (816035) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158315)

In which case the customer returns the video as defective.

Re:self-correcting problem (4, Insightful)

SomeoneGotMyNick (200685) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158257)

Close....

Sure, people don't have to buy the movie if they don't like the DRM involved. But they had better make a lot of noise about it if that's the reason.

The movie industry can write off a movie that fails to sell, for whatever reason. They'll just assume that people simply dislike the movie. There's always another movie to take it's place.

You need to add the shout out (however it can get to the movie industry) that the sole reason for not buying it is the DRM.

RTFA (4, Informative)

Ender Ryan (79406) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158129)

Read The Fucking Article. The person complaining wasn't trying to rip anything, and was in fact simply trying to use a product as it was intended to be used.

umm ... (-1, Troll)

jest3r (458429) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158072)

To date hasn't almost every attempt at DRM failed? Why are we still talking about this?

Re:umm ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158103)

Because the Industry still wants to..

That is why we should whoop up to http://www.magnatune.com/ [magnatune.com] and support John in his struggle as independant and open media company!

copyleft
creative commons

Re:umm ... (1)

3terrabyte (693824) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158164)

I used to have this mindset. Well, I still do. But at the moment, I've gotten to the point where it's really starting to be a pain in the ass as a ligitimate consumer. The FBI warnings are twice as long now. I'm getting annoying warning messages when I pop a DVD in my computer to watch. I'm at the point where I've found it more enjoyable to have DIVX versions on my hard drive.

Yikes (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158073)

Let's hope that software installed wasn't SkyNet....

Welome to MY nightmare?... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158075)

Welcome to the end of them seeing a single one of my dollars.
I refuse to financially support this horseshit.

for sale: the solution (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158077)

Panasonic VHS VCR Pal/Secam/NTSC
also available:

Philips MatchLine TV Pal/Secam/NTSC

ah, fvck 'em (2, Insightful)

RMH101 (636144) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158082)

i'll just continue to rent them from blockbusters and use http://www.dvdshrink.org/ [dvdshrink.org] to rip, copy and burn them.

Re:ah, fvck 'em (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158096)

So you look forward to the day your dvd refuses to load becauase your not using a DRM enabled drive I see ;)

Even better (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158273)

I'm looking forward to the day when you can contract "you are" correctly.

Let me guess: you're one of those "no children left behind" from Texas, right?

Re:ah, fvck 'em (1)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158128)

You're only making a small impact here. You're still putting $$ in the pockets of Blockbuster, which IS one of these corporate, DRM-loving giants. Try an independent video rental place. If where you live is anything like where I live, the independents have a better selection, better price, and much better service.

Re:ah, fvck 'em (1)

DrJonesAC2 (652108) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158285)

This is patently false. Haven't you ever seen Clerks [imdb.com] ?

Re:ah, fvck 'em (4, Insightful)

Tim C (15259) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158258)

So, a post advocating breaking the law is Insightful?

Look, if you insit on violating the IP rights of others, or supporting that violation (whether explicitly or implicitly, eg by modding up this sort of comment), then don't complain when someone takes GPLed code, modifies it, then releases it without making the source available.

Re:ah, fvck 'em (1, Insightful)

abe ferlman (205607) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158304)

In your world it seems that all laws are equally good, and all crimes equally bad. Not so.

Re:ah, fvck 'em (2, Insightful)

kaleco (801384) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158310)

DO you think that is a responsible approach to resolving the issue? Seems terribly pragmatic to me. A much better approach is to buy non-restrictive DVDs. If you are morally opposed to DRM content, you should avoid it altogether and not simply circumvent it.

Plenty of time... (5, Funny)

Laurentiu (830504) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158083)

From the article: That agreement, amongst other things, stated that I could only play back the content for a period of five days, on the computer I installed the InterActual Player application onto, after which I had to re-acquire a license.

Plenty of time to make a "fair use" DivX copy. And share it on BitTorrent just out of spite.

Slashdot material? (-1, Redundant)

mOoZik (698544) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158088)

C'mon man, this is preaching to the choir. Everyone who reads Slashdot already knows these things. The submission stinks of Slashvertisement than anything worthy as news or the front page.

Re:Slashdot material? (1)

justforaday (560408) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158126)

And what exactly is this a slashvertisement for? To tell us not to buy the T2 über-edition?

think twice about buying DVDs (4, Insightful)

Threni (635302) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158089)

> better think twice about buying DVDs and other media, as you're basically at
> the mercy of the producer

Not just that - most users simply aren't capable of installing all that crap even if they wanted to. Loads of people have problems even double or right clicking on something (and I'm not just talking about Apple customers, either).

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (0, Flamebait)

ViolentGreen (704134) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158175)

Every single thread. Just make a post about how stupid the masses are and get modded up. Slashdotters seem to think that they are so superior to the rest of the world. I am so tired of this arrogance.

I have never met anyone who uses a computer and doesn't realize the difference between left click, right click and double click.

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158194)

You haven't met very manu computer users then...

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (-1, Troll)

madfgurtbn (321041) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158223)

I have never met anyone who uses a computer and doesn't realize the difference between left click, right click and double click.

HAHAHAHAHA!! Thanks for the laugh.

Hehehehehe.

I know people who have been double clicking on hyperlinks for YEARS...

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (1)

harmanjd (414263) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158247)

I know people who have been double clicking on hyperlinks for YEARS...

Wait, you don't have to double click?

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (1)

justforaday (560408) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158259)

Wait, you don't have to double click?

No, stupid! You're supposed to right click on a link then double-click where it says "open." Sheesh!

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (1)

castlec (546341) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158300)

my gf still does.....
me: honey, just click once.
her: but sometimes it doesn't work.
me: that's because you're not clicking it.
her: well it always works when i double click.
me: ok dear.

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158248)

I have met plenty of people who have NO IDEA how to download or install a media player.

The parent may have exaggerated, but the point is most people who read Slashdot are far more capable with installation/configuration than typical users.

Get off your moral soapbox.

Re:think twice about buying DVDs (2, Insightful)

FireFury03 (653718) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158253)

I have never met anyone who uses a computer and doesn't realize the difference between left click, right click and double click.

The article says that he had to route his connection through an anonymous proxy in the US to get a DRM licence to view his legitimately purchased content - are you telling me that the masses would know how to do this? I think not.

you know... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158092)

I used to buy a pile of music cd's. Even after mp3's appeared, even after napster and their ilk... I liked having the CD, and I liked having the highest possible quality recording I could get.

What has happened now, is that the last two "CDs" I've bought had DRM on them, and the only reason I bought them is because I love the two bands (radiohead and the tea party). I can't play them without putting special sfotware on my XP box. Which I refuse to do because it's stupid and I paid for the CD in the first place.

So now I never listen to those two CDs.

And then I realised, why buy something I never listen to?

So I dont buy anymore CD's. That was a year ago.

Coralized link + Summary (5, Informative)

perlionex (703104) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158094)

Coralized link of the article [nyud.net]
Coralized link of the DRM'ed T2 Extreme DVD [nyud.net]

Quick summary for all those too lazy to read the article:
Content needed WMP9 with InterActual Player, which required a license, which could only be retrieved if you connected from US or Canada. And, the content could only be played for 5 days. Author concludes "Shame on you Artisan Home Entertainment Inc. and may this serve as a prime example of DRM at its worst."

Re:Coralized link + Summary (1)

3terrabyte (693824) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158245)

The part I don't understand (and I did read the article) is what the point is of only 5 days? Does it take 6 days to become a pirate? 7 days to rule the internet? I don't really understand.

The best I can come up with is it will force the consumer to continue to upgrade the software required, which of course, some day will not exist. Anything online will not last. What happens when the movie company merges again (obviously it will). Will the they bother to keep up to date on all these little things?

OLD NEWS (1)

Jeff DeMaagd (2015) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158279)

The T2 extreme edition WM9 disc isn't a DVD-Video.

This is also old news, I think as of last year? Man, Slashdot editors really is getting stale and behind the times.

Mercy mine. (4, Insightful)

Asprin (545477) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158098)


They're gonna try this because they are stupid and need to be dragged kicking and screaming into every new market that opens for them, but ultimately the power is in *our* hands because we have the money they want. When we stop buying DVDs that are overpriced and burdensome, they'll dump the DRM.

DRM isn't nearly as valuable to them as... say... having a market for them in the first place. When the returns start coming back to retailers from people like my mother-in-law, they'll relent.

Trust me.

She's very persuasive.

Re:Mercy mine. (1)

jellomizer (103300) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158250)

They Did this with software back in the 80's and it didn't work. Back in the 80s there were copy protected disks and they used tricks like intentionally making bad sectors. on the disk or small errors on the FAT. Which worked it helped to stop people from coping disks. But after a while they stopped doing it because it prevented people from doing a proper backup of the software, Most of the games ran better on the hard drive and not off the floppy. And Limited Piracy is actually good for companies, Person A buys program X by Companies G, Person A give program X to Person B. Person B likes the program and sees what Company G is producing. The next application Company G releases Person B buys.

Re:Mercy mine. (4, Insightful)

NoMoreNicksLeft (516230) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158275)

Doesn't work that way. The burdens they'll place on us, the ones you and I see coming in the future, are just esoteric enough that it's only obvious to people like you and I. And they'll take just long enough, that people will get used to them slowly, and never experience the shock and outrage that would be required for a proper backlash to occur.

More so, with our supermegacorporateconglomerates that we have today, it will truly be universal. There will be no competing products for people to "vote for with their dollars". The only way to vote against DRM then, will be to become some type of mountain man Ted Kascinzki-style, who abhors and retreats from any and all entertainment (and in the case of computer software, even useful computer tools/utilities).

Go ahead, wait for magic capitalism to "correct" this, to rescue you from it.

Re:Mercy mine. (4, Insightful)

DoctorPepper (92269) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158294)

While I agree with what you've said, in principal, I disagree simply because of what I refer to as the "sheep factor". This is the tendency for people to just continue doing or using something the same way, no matter what. This also includes 99.9% of Slashdotters.

The vast majority of people don't play DVD's on their computers (yet). As long as the DVD will play on an "approved" DVD player, they will continue to buy them. Before long, all DVD's will come with DRM.

If people could organize a mass boycott of these DRM'd DVD's, and make it work, the MPAA might take notice. I doubt, however, it would work.

I used to say "vote with your wallet" on these very threads, but I've become disillusioned, and no longer even try. :-(

Re:Mercy mine. (3, Insightful)

gorbachev (512743) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158312)

"ultimately the power is in *our* hands because we have the money they want."

I wish that were true.

Unfortunately the power is in their hands, because they own the politicians who make the laws that govern us.

There is a choice, right? (2, Insightful)

mytec (686565) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158101)

As we saw in another slashdot article [slashdot.org] , the DVD business makes up a large amount of the Hollywood's profits. Watch the movie in the theatres and don't buy the DVD's and watch the DVD portion of the profits plummet.

Hollywood and the music companies aren't budging. The masses are just accepting what they push down our throats. Perhaps it is time to use our power as consumers?

Here's another choice... (1)

TrollBridge (550878) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158150)

...don't watch them at all. Why give them any money at all if you are that unsatisfied with their product/service?

Re:There is a choice, right? (2, Interesting)

justkarl (775856) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158167)

Like many teenagers, I worked in a movie theatre. Unlike many more, I learned something from my sentence: How profits break down in the ent. industry.
I imagine DVD sales only account for 35-40% of profits for a given movie...Look at ticket prices. You got the 8-10 dollar tix at the box office, right?

$6-10 - pay for the film
$3 - helps pay wages
Most theatres jack up concessions, because otherwise, they'd go under. Ticket sales quite literally barely pay for the film from the studio. And that's considering a few thousand patrons a day at the same movie.

Re:There is a choice, right? (1)

Jaruzel (804522) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158183)

You are totally kidding yourself.

Consumers have NO power. We just *think* we do.

Face it, they will contine to push this crap at us, and then blame p2p for loss of profits as usual.

-Jar.

Re:There is a choice, right? (1)

TrollBridge (550878) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158251)

So you're telling me that you compulsively feed at the consumption trough, without any will of your own?

If you don't like the music industry, then simply don't buy or listen to anything the RIAA backs.

If you don't like the film industry, then simply don't buy or watch anything the MPAA backs.

There are plenty of independent alternatives out there. Claiming that you are somehow a victim of the industries you willingly buy from doesn't lend yourself much credibility.

Re:There is a choice, right? (1)

FireFury03 (653718) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158316)

Watch the movie in the theatres and don't buy the DVD's and watch the DVD portion of the profits plummet.

Doesn't work - this has already been shown in the CD industry. CD profits are down - must be piracy, lets shove more DRM crap on them, profits go down more, rinse, repeat.

Always a software solution (2, Insightful)

DogDude (805747) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158108)

In this case, the solution is to use DVD Shrink and make a copy for yourself without all of that extra bullshit on it. There will ALWAYS be a software solution to this crap.

Re:Always a software solution (1)

justforaday (560408) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158152)

The solution to wanting to watch the HD version of the movie is to compress the hell out of it?!?!

RTFA (3, Informative)

StateOfTheUnion (762194) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158179)

In this case, the solution is to use DVD Shrink and make a copy for yourself without all of that extra bullshit on it. There will ALWAYS be a software solution to this crap.

The buyer already owned a regular copy of the film. He bought this version because it had a HD format copy of the film in WMV9 format, but this version was DRM'ed.

If he DVD Shrink'ed the film, that would defeat the purpose of buying the better quality HD version.

Re:Always a software solution (1)

tomstdenis (446163) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158212)

The solution is one person will get a license, rip the movie, post it on a P2P and voila. Instant anti-drm.

Of course for the rest of the users who don't venture on P2P they're screwed messing with license agreements and shit. This of course won't stop them from buying it. Afterall a commercial on TV told them to buy it. They must obey. Stupid serfs.

You know what the real cause of all the **AA problems are? Too much sun. See they're all the way down in California too much where their brains get bleached and then they come up with these random ideas that you can really make bits uncopyable. They get annoyed at the reality of the situation so they write and push for laws that support their "version of reality".

The real solution is not to be predictable. Sure keep seeing movies, just don't see them on their time. Keep the execs up at night trying to strategerize and eventually they'll die off one by one from fatigue.

Tom

Re:Always a software solution (1)

dosius (230542) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158288)

Is WMV9 DRM crackable? How? Where?

Though if WMVHD can be cracked, it is most certainly playable in mplayer with the proper codec pack, and can be converted to divx with mencoder. (Done it.)

Moll.

Re:Always a software solution (1)

3terrabyte (693824) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158308)

Having to deal with customers all over the nation, I have to admit that that is the same exact excuse I came up with to explain the idiots from California.

I'm sure some /.er from CA will be outraged at this stereotype, but hey, whenever some idiot driver almost crashes into me, it's almost always an Asian chick. Some stereotypes are just true!

Customers should reject this . . . (4, Insightful)

StateOfTheUnion (762194) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158122)

We need more posts like this one . . . the only way the industry will get with the program on DRM is if people post their terrible experiences and we consumers vote with out wallets.

If sales of the DRM versions of films stink, then the powers that be won't be able to implement them profitably. We need to make sure that the cost in lost sales due to DRM techniques pissing of the customer exceed the lost sales due to the media being copiable. Of course this is easier said than done, as there are millions of customers that need to be organized versus just a few production companies that can easily rally together, but it is the only way that production companies will get the message.

It's like DIVX (no, not the video compression, the now defunct DVD competitor that had embedded DRM), DIVX movies were cheaper than DVD's but they had a limited license that had to be renewed for multiple viewing (like pay per view). Customers rejected it and it (thankfully) died an ugly death.

The train is pulling out of the station - be on it (1)

pedestrian crossing (802349) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158292)

Bingo! A copy of the Cluetrain Manifesto [cluetrain.org] , would be the ideal holiday gift for the **AA executive on your holiday gift-giving list.

It only encourages piracy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158123)

"...you'd better think twice about buying DVDs...."

Yes, this obviously encourages piracy. When the "legit" ones are difficult to view/listen to, it drives people to the nice "cracked" versions that are much easier to use.

my story. (5, Interesting)

ilovelinux (129476) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158125)

this is a repost of an AC post I did by accident.

I used to buy a pile of music cd's. Even after mp3's appeared, even after napster and their ilk... I liked having the CD, and I liked having the highest possible quality recording I could get.

What has happened now, is that the last two "CDs" I've bought had DRM on them, and the only reason I bought them is because I love the two bands (radiohead and the tea party). I can't play them without putting special sfotware on my XP box. Which I refuse to do because it's stupid and I paid for the CD in the first place.

So now I never listen to those two CDs.

And then I realised, why buy something I never listen to?

So I dont buy anymore CD's. That was a year ago.

What sort of DRM? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158163)

What sort of DRM does the Radiohead CD have? Just wondering. Is it the type where you press the Shift key and the DRM goes away?

I'm pretty much out of it when it comes to buying new CDs. When the RIAA censored Napster and its users, I made the decision that buying CDs was kind of immoral (like buying goods made in slave factories).

Re:What sort of DRM? (2, Interesting)

ilovelinux (129476) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158198)

I'm not sure what type of DRM it had. It wouldn't play in any of my players, and out of principle I wasn't going to waste any time to crack it. If they don't want to treat me like a customer, I won't be their customer.

agony! (2, Interesting)

fermion (181285) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158131)

The real problem with DVDs is having to go through the agony of watching all the warnings, ads, and amatuer animation, before being allowed to watch the movie that one has duly licensed. This agony clearly drives consumers to the P2P networks to acquire a copy that just allows us to watch the movie, without 5 minutes of 'value added content'.

How Windows Media DRM works (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158141)

Once he installed the third party player and received a license, he no longer needs the third party player. WMP9 will play the content.

The license acquisition url of the protected file points to a webpage that had him install a third party player, instead of delivering a license like it's suppose to according to the Windows Media SDKs.

So instead they have their crappy player deliver the license. It's just a scam to get you to install their player.

Once you have the license, Windows Media Player will not open the license aqcuisition URL again. It will just play the file.

-- I lick the WMSDK ass-crack for a living...

What are we ganna do? (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158143)

Boycott that crap!!! Thats what!

Re:What are we ganna do? (1)

nysus (162232) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158170)

Good fucking luck. Ever try to explain DRM to a sheep? It's much easier to lead one to slaughter.

Re:What are we ganna do? (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158227)

... Not everyone is a sheep yah know.

Re:What are we ganna do? (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158274)

Baaaahhh!

The Big Problem... (2, Insightful)

Skye16 (685048) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158153)

The problem isn't that they DRMed their stuff. Fine. Let them. It's theirs, not ours, even if we really, really want it to be. But not telling us that it is DRMed is misleading advertising. It's like selling someone a car that automatically spraypaints the inside of their garage or else refuses to turn on. If the car manufacturer requires a garage to be painted a certain color, then fine, they can do that, no matter how ridiculous it may be. But they have to make that extremely pertinent information known prior to the sale.

Re:The Big Problem... (1)

BCW2 (168187) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158252)

An even bigger problem is coming. With M$ big push for "Media Center" Win XP, don't plan on any entertainment by computer, video, music or games, without all the DRM crap. Why anyone would take things that work fine (Cable or sattelite TV, Stereo) and run them through M$ is beyond me. They will not allow any recording of anything and act like Doom in not installing on anything that has what they think are pirate programs, (limewire, kazaa, p2p in any form). That's what the "AA's" and M$ want. We get to figure out how to keep it from happening.

Analog hole (5, Insightful)

Schezar (249629) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158162)

If I can see it, I can copy it. If I can hear it, I can record it.

At some point, no matter how high-tech the DRM gets, the data must be presented in a form humans can perceive. All the encryption in the world won't stop little Mikey from holding a microphone up to the outputs and making a non-DRM copy.

To anyone who says that such a copy will be inferior in quality, I note two points:

1) The loss only occurrs once. The non-DRM copy can then be shared digitally with no further loss of quality.

2) The original work was recorded from the air. The band actually played its song, or the actor actually did his thing. If similar technology is used to create the non-DRM copy, the loss will be negligible. (Imagine a home theatre system set up on a soundstage in someone's basement, with pickups and equipment to record its "performance")

People also seem to have this irrational fear that the old technology will suddenly disappear. My digital camcorder is pretty good, and it will still exist when the world is DRM'd. So will my mp3 player, and so will my non-DRM compliant microphones.

Furthermore, there will be a high demand for DRM-noncompliant technology. Even if it is illegal, I predict a briskly moving black market in such technology. If there's a dollar to be made, someone will make it.

As for watermarking: pay cash.

Yes it will... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158210)

"At some point, no matter how high-tech the DRM gets, the data must be presented in a form humans can perceive. All the encryption in the world won't stop little Mikey from holding a microphone up to the outputs and making a non-DRM copy."

When Mikey's PC automatically checks the digital watermark on the incoming music against some distant secret CDDB-like database, and shuts off the recording because "microphone recording of protected media violates the license code", this just won't work.

The only way you will be able to do this is with hacked hardware/software, or with vintage tape recorders.

Re:Analog hole (1)

StateOfTheUnion (762194) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158241)

At some point, no matter how high-tech the DRM gets, the data must be presented in a form humans can perceive. All the encryption in the world won't stop little Mikey from holding a microphone up to the outputs and making a non-DRM copy. . . . The original work was recorded from the air. The band actually played its song, or the actor actually did his thing. If similar technology is used to create the non-DRM copy, the loss will be negligible.

Do you have access to technology similar to that used by professional recording studios or hollywood production houses? I do not . . . so I cannot make a copy similar to the original because my tools are significantly inferior. A good example of this are the downloadable copies of films that were recorded in a movie theatre. The person that made the copy used somewhat similar technology in a somewhat controlled enviroment, but his copy was shite.

This is part of the incentive to buy the DVD . . . the DVD is a controlled copy with an acceptable standard of quality.

Horror story (2, Funny)

reaper (10065) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158165)

Seirously, this isn't a horror story... it's shady marketing. A horror story would be if it required him to install a 3rd party application which broke/uninstalled the rest of his stuff, and then it went outside, keyed his car, then poured arsenic on his lawn.... because the player's development office was built on top of an INDIAN BURIAL GROUND!

I get the rights when this gets on the big screen.

Who stole... (1)

LegendOfLink (574790) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158180)

DRM is the digital version of the Grinch Who Stole Christmas.

That was my Christmas Slashdot Discussion Contribution this year!

Without DRM the industy will go under (1)

bogomipz (807251) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158181)

and of course, when the VHS recorder was introduced in the 80's, the movie makers were doomed and saw the writing on the wall

Re:Without DRM the industy will go under (1)

salvorHardin (737162) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158284)

Indeed.... and here's the quote from Jack Valenti [wikiquote.org] himself [wombatnation.com] :

"I say to you that the VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston strangler is to the woman home alone."

Vote with your wallet (1)

wheelbarrow (811145) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158196)

You don't need your Mommy government to stop this one. The free market will do just fine.

Make your case in the free and open market place of ideas. People will stop buying DVDs and the DRM will change. If people don't stop buying then you'll realize, again, that you are in the tin foil hat minority.

Until it's too late (1)

bradleyland (798918) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158199)

I have the feeling that the revolt against DRM will not come until it's too late. Too may people are content to drop a DVD into their set top combo DVD/VCR that they bought at Walmart for $40 and watch the movie. Until DRM starts to affect these people, there will be no change.

Stay out of my living room (1)

shonagon53 (816754) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158203)

This entire DRM issue is an infringement of our right to privacy. The technology will allow producers to track every move of every piece of content, any time. They will know what I watch or listen to, how many times, when and where. In short, they will have to come up with something less intrusive, or a lot of people will go for "trackfree" content instead.

One Solution.... (2, Interesting)

Doverite (720459) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158206)

Play dumb, every time you go back to walmart/Smart return the cd/dvd and complain that it doesn't work. Get a duplicate and take it home open it and return it the next time claiming it doesn't work after about 5 or 6 tries they'll just give you your money back and if enough people do it they'll bitch back up the line, and stop dealing with that particular DRM...just an idea.

A Losing Battle (2, Insightful)

blueZhift (652272) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158215)

DRM and the fighting against it are both losing battles. First, most of the trouble I hear about with DRM involves playing protected media on PCs. As long as the media works in the DVD player that the average Jane User has in the living room, most people won't care. That part of it is what, in some sense, has Microsoft worried the most. Microsoft has to develop and promote DRM on Windows to first satisfy the rights owners and then to be able to promote Windows as the preferred media platform. But Jane User doesn't need Windows to play DVDs and generally wants to stay as far away from those difficult to use PCs as possible. DRM nightmare stories will make sure that she doesn't even think about playing DVDs in a PC.

At the other extreme, as usual, DRM will not stop the real pirates who have time and resources to defeat any DRM scheme. So ironically for Microsoft and the entertainment industry, people will still be able to get cheaper pirate DVDs they will happily play in DVD players that do not (in most cases) use any Microsoft technology. Knowledgable PC users (ie geeks) will continue to find ways to get around DRM and/or b*tch about it here on /.. ;-)

responses to va lairIE on pateNTdead PostBlock(tm) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158216)

devise. it would reek of corepirate nazi censorship to US, if it worked at all.

coming soon to/already on, yOUR desktop/network?:

etc... lookout bullow. these foulcurrs haven't a clue yet, as to what J. Public can do, once he's peaced off. they live in a tiny wwworld, consisting of only their owned

greed/fear based goals. they should get ready to see the light.

we're building a vessel that floats on almost any suBStance.

as to the newclear power/planet/population rescue initiative:

it's all free (as in survival), & available immediately to you/all of US.

as you can maybe already see, yOUR survival/success is not the least bit dependent on the gadgets/combinations of the greed/fear based corepirate nazis, & their phonIE ?pr?

?firm? buyassed /.puppets.

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. more breathing. vote with yOUR wallet (somtimes that means not buying anything, a notion previously unmentioned buy the greed/fear/war

mongers). seek others of non-aggressive/positive behaviours/intentions. stop wasting anything/being frivolous. that's the spirit.

investigate the newclear power plan. J. Public et AL has yet to become involved in open/honest 'net communications/commerce in a meaningful way. that's mostly due to the

MiSinformation suppLIEd buy phonIE ?pr? ?firm?/stock markup FraUD execrable, etc...

truth is, there's no better/more affordable/effective way that we know of, for J. to reach other J.'s &/or their respective markets.

the overbullowned greed/fear based phonIE marketeers are self eliminating by their owned greed/fear/ego based evile MiSintentions. they must deny the existence of the power

that is dissolving their ability to continue their self-centered evile behaviours.

as the lights continue to come up, you'll see what we mean. meanwhile, there are plenty of challenges, not the least of which is the planet/population rescue (from the

corepirate nazi/walking dead contingent) initiative.

EVERYTHING is going to change, despite the lameNT of the evile wons. you can bet your .asp on that. when the lights come up, there'll be no going back, & no where to hide.

we weren't planted here to facilitate/perpetuate the excesses of a handful of Godless felons. you already know that? yOUR ONLY purpose here is to help one another. any

other pretense is totally false.

pay attention (to yOUR environment, for example). that's quite affordable, & leads to insights on preserving life as it should/could/will be again. everything's ALL about

yOUR motives.

that old tune title (hope we don't get 'busted' for using it) "make the world go away", takes on new/varied meaning in these times.

the prevalent notion that 'everything will be taken care of' without yOUR knowledge/participation is insidiously misleading.

in our estimation, the biggest 'threat' against US (aside from continuing to fire bullinedly into the 'crowd', whilst demanding applause), would be a failure to recognize

our 'role' in the problems. we're victims for sure, but whoare ALL the perpetrators (see also: corepirate nazi puppets), gets lost in the ?pr? ?firm? generated propaganda

spew.

consult with/trust in yOUR creator. seek others of non-aggressive behaviours/intentions. that's the spirit.

the lights ARE coming up now. pay attention (to yOUR heart, for example). that could lead to new ways (see also: newclear power plan) of thinking about/dealing with, the

needs/rights of others EVERYWHERE on the planet.

having the attention span of a gnat, & similar ambitions, might be ok if you are just planning to be a consumer/type one liners.

take care of each other, you're all we've got. we're here for you. get ready to see the light.--

worth reading, again, with feeling.

"It takes a long time to teach the judges, legislators, and public to understand technology. Right now, they're getting a strong dose of "education" on the Internet's

threats and harms, and not hearing so much about its potential. Shouts of "piracy" often outweigh consideration of how we might communicate with more open media formats,

but judges like Stephen Wilson in the Grokster case are starting to listen through the shouting. We're encouraging more people to think about how the law shapes

technological innovation, how the technology itself can foster creativity, and then to do something about it to advance the public interest."--

"The stability of the large world house which is ours will involve a revolution of values to accompany the scientific and freedom revolutions engulfing the earth. We must

rapidly begin the shift from a "thing"-oriented society to a "person"-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more

important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered. A civilization can flounder as readily in the face of

moral and spiritual bankruptcy as it can through financial bankruptcy."

DRM Media exists by our sanction (1)

Gothmolly (148874) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158217)

Everyone loves to bash Big Media, and how ??AA is teh suck, but people still queue up and slurp up the latest to be shovelled out of Hollywood. It's now a "well known fact" that current pop music is garbage, but people keep buying it. Its not enough to say "well, I wont buy DRM stuff", because whats still implied is "but I'll buy everything else".
Do you really need all of the Sopranos on DVD? Must you watch 3.5 hours of TV per day? Must you buy the latest boy band or cookie cutter post-grunge band CD? While we on Slashdot may seek out entertainment in non traditional ways, on dark alleys of the Internet, or by frequenting local music venues, the majority of people, while they may bitch, continue to shovel money at ??AA.
It's the same way the US complains about high oil prices - we THROW money at OPEC, then complain when they charge us more. Who's the bad guy there?

No Shit (1)

RAMMS+EIN (578166) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158218)

So DRM can degrade the customer experience? No shit, Einstein. I think we /.ers have known this for some time.

And we need to think twice before buying that DVD? I don't need to think even once. If they don't put it in a format that I can use (and yes, these formats exist), I just don't buy it.

Ironic (4, Interesting)

Stevyn (691306) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158220)

The movies people download don't have DRM to hassle with. So now on top of getting the movie for free, they get possibly a better product.

When will these industries learn that you can't slow P2P by pissing off legitimate customers?

Warning! Cheap ass hack job article ahead. (1, Funny)

ZB Mowrey (756269) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158221)

ftfa: As I already own a, legitimate, copy of T2, that wasn't the reason I bought the two-dvd disk set, I was looking forward to playing back the hd version, which promises the very best image quality and a great way for me to enjoy the full potential of my, hd capable, home theater installation.

could, the author, of this article, be William Shatner, in disguise, maybe, hiding between all the, commas?

DRM personally offensive (1)

cpgeek (236645) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158231)

I am personally offended by digital rights management software. As a guy who uses multiple operating envirionments (linux, OS X, beos, windows xp, QNX, and a couple of others) I need data compatibility across all of my platforms. digital media has been pretty much standardized by way of open formats and codecs. people with either multiple computers, or multiple operating environments are plagued to use proprietary and mostly inferior operating environments (read windows) in order to play back new media... this is ridiculous! not to mension that the more layers of DRM you apply the more opprotunity that the playback isn't going to work anyway. I should not have to jump through hoops to play "legitimately obtained" media. now that those socially and legally honnored arguments are out of the way everything comes back to one simples statement that hackers (no, i'm not talking about crackers here, i'm talking about persons who creatively solve technical problems) have always stated. "information is ment to be free". I'm a strong believer in this statement. the nature of information is that it can be stored on any medium. can be broadcast to anyone, and is difficult to control. intelectual property is just plain a bad idea. donationware, shareware, etc. is fine, but users should never be forced to pay for information that can be stored and shared freely at no expense to the content creator. rebroadcasting and redistributing of all media should be perfectly legal under fair use. if you are going to make something public then leave it public, don't make every single user pay for it. so long as there is DRM, there will be a group of good, dedicated hackers to creatively circumvent these crazy limitations and a band of followers.

Re:DRM personally offensive (1)

wheelbarrow (811145) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158301)

What do you say to the film producer who has sunk a significant fortune into creating the film? How are they supposed to recover those costs?

freaking "no skip ads" DRM on DVDs (1)

for_usenet (550217) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158236)

In a similar view, though probably not as annoying as this, I got to be a fan of Monk. Even though it's on "basic" cable, we really did not feel like shelling out an extra 30-35 USD a month to be able to watch this series. So we got friends to tape a few episodes for us, but for the most part, we waited for the series DVDs to come out. As they are now, you have to put up with the ads for other USA series on the f*#@!ing DVD, and it won't allow you to skip them. Thankfully, our player as a 16x or 32x FF mode, so it made short work of that. But it's getting REALLY annoying.

We also have a ton of movies on VHS that we WERE thinking of buying, but now were reconsidering. I've already invested in a Canopus ADVC-100, and all I still need to get is a fast-enough hard drive to capture and process about 3 hours of video at a time... With all their DRM and further annoyances, the MPAA just lost at least 1K or so in movie sales from us. Not even a drop in their bucket, but if enough people do it, maybe ... maybe we'll see a shift.

Remember folks, speak not only with your voices, but with your $$. Unfortunately, it seems to be the only thing that really gets through these days ...

They Squeeze, I Rip! (1)

losman (840619) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158242)

I have an extensive collection of purchased movies and such. As situations like this continue to arise I find myself ripping more often. Not because I don't have the money to purchase something but simple for the fact that it's my way of protesting.

Hopefully more and more consumers will protest via whatever means they feel necessary. My hopes is that for a day, week or even a month there could be local, state or a country rally where no DVDs are either purchased or rented. Hit them where it hurts - their bottome line!

Tales of the Macabre (1)

rinkjustice (24156) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158254)

horror story... agonizing process of installing DRM-enabled applications... mercy of the producer...

If I dare read this article, I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight. Sounds like chilling stuff!

i've seen a message (1)

mzwaterski (802371) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158268)

I've seen a message about installing the Interactual Player from several DVDs. I generally cancel the message and play the DVD with my own DVD decoder software. The message usually claims that you need to install the software to playback the movie, but as far as I've seen, this is not true. This makes sense to me because the movie plays fine in his DVD player. I'd be willing to bet that if he used any other program than Windows Media Player he would be able to play the DVD with no issues.

I don't see a nightmare (1)

Tim C (15259) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158286)

I see one crappy bit of software (I've had to use InterActual's player before, unfortunately) and a stupid decision concerning a licence combining to provide a shitty user experience.

When this is the norm, come back and say you told me so. Until then, just complain to the people responsible for this crap; if enough people do so and mean it, they'll either see the error of their ways, or go bust; either way is a win.

DRM (1)

bullgoose (837243) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158298)

The biggest problem are the typical computer users; they don't realize how badly they're getting screwed. As a Linux user, I realize just how invasive some of the things producers are doing really are, but Joe Six-pack (poor Joe) doesn't have (or WANT) a clue; until this stops being a niche issue that only geeks understand, it won't change. When will that happen? Beats hell out of me; I still can't figure out how Microsoft sells anything computer related, but people, for the most part, are cattle; they believe what they're told.

Remember - DVD's are not a necessity (5, Insightful)

rlp (11898) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158302)

My family used to buy about a dozen CD's per year. I'd take the CD's - convert it to MP3's - put it on my home server for listening at home, and download individual MP3's to my MP3 player for music on the go and in my car. First time I bought a CD that was DRM'ed and couldn't be extracted - I stopped buying CD's. Haven't bought one in over two years. If the studios load up DVD's with DRM to the point that they can't be used - DON'T BUY THEM! Abusing your customers is not a viable long term business strategy.

SHOUT to Artisan Entertainment (4, Insightful)

dpilot (134227) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158309)

in the ONLY language they understand - revenue!

Return the DVD to the store for a refund.

If you don't hit them in the sales, they'll NEVER hear your message. If you keep the DVD and gripe online, they won't HEAR your message quite as clearly as if you return it. True, they will see reduced revenue as Slashdotters stay away from the DVD, but it won't be quite as direct.

What about elvis. (2, Insightful)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 9 years ago | (#11158314)

Elvis is 50 this year, which means in exactly 10 days time he will start to come out of copyright and be put into the public domain (just incase anyone didn't know what Elvis sounded like)

So, what about DRM.
if I download Elvis from Real and they put DRM on the track how the hell am I supposed to make as many copies of the public domain work as I want?

This is based on the assumption that...

DRM is technical not artistic so it doesn't count as a new work, just a copy.

Real used the original Elvis recording (or copy of).

you live in the UK (or possibly the EU as well)

But still holds true in 50 years time when that DRM music you purchased comes out of copyright, how can you then put it into the public domain?

Anyone played "Far Cry"? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11158320)

That's a 3D shooter for PC. It not only has the normal copy protection requiring the user to have the DVD in the drive but also checks for DVD Backup programs installed and will refuse to run if one is found. Unfortunately, the error message was very unspecific and forced me to try-and-error uninstall some programs. When I asked a friend who works for a game mag, he told me that these methods become more and more common. That was half a year ago btw.
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