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Another sad day (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1927994)

I guess COMPAQ is having a hard time digesting DEC.

At one time, DEC could have been INTEL + Microsoft, but it missed the brass ring. Let that be a very humbling message to us all.

I feel for my old colleagues still tied up in the mess... and glad I got over it and moved on.

Ex Decie and OldFart (see the Jargon file)

"New DEC Shit" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1927995)

It will probably stay right on track. A subsidiary called "Alpha Processor Inc" was spun off to take care of all this seperately from Compaq proper. qv: http://www.alpha-processor.com

CPQ CEO, CFO, *and* AltaVista CTO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1927996)

And AltaVista Chief Technology Officer has resigned.

Strong Buy (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1927997)

"And supposidly, we are going to be supporting Linux sites soon"
You already do. The Alpha Linux Organization (www.alphalinux.org) is sponsored by Compaq/API/and Samsung, and has received some generous donations from Compaq recently.
I don't see Compaq's committment to Linux going anywhere but up, up, up.

Maybe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1927998)

I disagree. They deserve the credit. If you go
to Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA...just to name
a few, most of these stores carry K6* machines by
Compaq beside a few other vendors.

An AC replied to Erics FUD theory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1927999)

I took the lliberty of copying this AC post

Here it goes...

Pretty sad, when you flame other manufactures while working for a so so one....

Anyway, here is the reply to your FUD!!!!

Eric, Can I say you are full of sh*t.

I will reply to your "FACTS"..

1). Dell is NOT a white box operation. My brother worked for one of the premier government labs and now he is a design
engineer at Dell.
(He is an EE)
And he is in one of many teams that Dell has in Austin TX. If you pull a Dell Laptop or a Dell Optiplex, you can see that
they are very different
from any mother board. For example, Dell built the Sound chip Video controller and Ethernet on this small system board.
They fixed the PCI on a riser. The BIOS is written by Dell. The board is designed and built by Dell. So where is the "white
Box" deal.
Dell designs there own laptops. Peter Coffee at PC week said, it is no wonder Dell is so good. His Dell Latitude is still
running after
many many years..no failures. See what good engineering does to a product. Why do people buy Toyota nd Honda and
not Hyundai..
(remenber the Excel..as bad as M$ Excel...mnine blew the motor...)
Do you know why they beat everyone else on reliability..including compaq..Because of the design and the engineering
built in to the system.

I guess Compaq guys must be laughing at their own folly. Lot of their people left them in the last few years to work for
( Do not like the bull shit happening over their) By the way, Glen Henry, architect of Winchip was a dell fellow till he
decided to go solo.
This guy built a x86 processor with a4 man design team in Austin, without violating any of Intels patents. It was done in
less tha one year.

So cut the crap about Dell not having design engineers. VA has 60 odd employees and Penguin 30 something
(this is from their own press releases).Dell has over 800 design engineers. So eat your heart out man.

I am doing my Msc and when I finish I will head to Dell too. I was a design engineer at Sun after my Bsc.
I went Stanford for my Bsc.

2) Sure VA has people who came from Compaq and Apple.Ok, take the 60 people and take out sales support and HR.
Now tell me
how many designers are there.

3) VA never built their system the way Dell Compaq and IBM does. VA buys a motherboard and bolts it in to a white Box
and some
of them were OEM Intel plain vanila white boxes. Now except the high ends it is is even outsource-ing that part too.... to
third party company (once again, slapping a mother board and the rest together).

****Dell is an alpha vendor for Intel. Same as compaq. The boards are designed way before the Processor and the
Chipset go gold.
They work with Intel and share the technology.

4). So no one can make a motherboard faster and better than Intel. Try this for a test, Dell PowerEdge 2300
beat the Intel designed white box used by Micron. It beat on memory performance, I/O performance, Disk Performance.
(Using the same processors, chipset and drives. "Must be that little mice that keyboard dell sells..what do you think Eric..
does that explain that..." Read the reviews. Pcweek and Computer shopper both.

Talking through your nose again.All most all the major vendors uses robots to place componets on the
motherboard.infact they
can learn from an error and reprogrammed very quickly. Today not a single componet is placed by hand.That is why all
the components
are perfectly aligned. The board is tested also by robots. El cheapo from Taiwan must be using the human being. Eric,
you say
you (I guess you mean VA and Penguin and LHS) cannot out engineer Asus. You know why, because you do not have
the people to do the
design work. Do you know how many are needed to desighn a mmotherboard today...I can tell you this ..it is not one.

Intel gives out reference designs, that is why most el-cheapo board look the same. But they save cost in manufacturing
and quality.
It does not mean they are faster or reliable or good for mission critical stuff.

Compaq integrated only the slower components in to an ASIC.It is cheaper...sure. Depends on if you want to limit your
I know what I am talking about. Many of my friend are in design teams over there.also from Sun and IBM.Way to go

5). VA and Penguin and LHS.you guys are not even at the level of Acer..or even that lowly PackardBell.
Oh.heh heh ..J..Guess what Packard Bell used to use the Intel motherboards like VA.when they had so much trouble.
Now they use NEC boards after NEC bought them out.Not sure of it but that is what I heard informally.

6). System Integration by VA and LHS and Penguin?..there are people like CompUSA who are better at it. So, what
CompUSA hires a bunch of programmers to do what you guys are doing???? Writing a few drivers..(or can I say
tweaking other
peoples work.since it is open source.and installing Linux.

7). Problem with VA and Penguin and LHS is they are running scared of Dell after Dell started selling Linux boxes. You
guys better be.
Penguin's Okraboy said in a press release that heard that Dell is outsourcing the Linux install. That is typical of the sleazy
flames they are trying.

Dell used to have its own Unix boxes in early 1990. All along they used to install SCO and Solaris in the factory. They have
spent over
many many months tuning their Linux install operation. Lets see what happens in a few months OK.Next time do not dish
out false statements
as facts.Dell might sue you and your motley LHS. No security in hiding behind the disclaimer saying these views are mine
and not LHS.

Sort of giving cheap publicity to LHS.

[ Reply to This | Parent ]

humunous? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928000)

Is that anything like compost? Seems that a syllable fell out of the middle of a packet...

Sign of changing paradigms (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928001)

Eric, Compaq is going to live and thrive. You know why the CEO had to go, because the integration of DEC has taken too long. Also, compaq is taking too long a time in making use of all the resources Digital had, for example their service organization. And that caused the competitors to catch on. Your theory and attitude sort of stinks.

BTW do us a faour and do not mention LHS at all. We do not care where you work. But please do not give free advertisements to your company in that slime way

re: CPQ CEO, CFO, *and* AltaVista CTO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928002)

> And AltaVista Chief Technology Officer has resigned.

The company's internal rumor mill says that this was independant of the other resignations. It happened a few days earlier, and was a matter of personality conflicts, not finances.

(Posted anonymously for reasons of job security.)

Hyundai Excel (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928003)

Yeah, I bought it three months after it was introduced. The new Hyundai's are much better.

But, the one I had was a pain in the *ss.

Disgruntled DELL employees? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928004)

I have to disagree on something you said.
Most of the open source software was NOT written by people working for VA and others. But lot of the code come from students working on their own time on their campuses computers.

I have seen computer equipment gifted by all the major vendors (starting from IBM, HP, Compaq, Dell..other and even 3 com with hubs and switches) in many universities.

So it wrong to say only VA and few others support Linux..Lot of others do, I believe, the majority of the work was done on computers gifted by many other vendors..including Intel.

Jut my two bits..one high and one low

Gee, is Compaq now "beleagured?" NO!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928005)

I do not think so. I think integrating two companies of pretty much equal size but totally different ideals is a daunting task.

I guess they underestimated the time to get it going and lost some of the focus on immediate issues

Compaq needs to be broken up ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928006)

I'm afraid that I'd have to disagree. I have moved from Digital into Compaq, and I believe that the company has good and great intentions. Compaq is a juggernaut that is difficult to turn on a dime. Where moving from being focused on shipping PCs to delivering a a total end-to-end solution. All of the large IT companies need to demonstrate that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Compaq is trying its darndest to develop solutions that meet enterprise needs, horizontally and vertically. We will be using both best-of-breed inhouse and partner-developed solutions meet this end. See Next Generation Networks Infrastructure for example (http://www.compaq.com/services/ngni). And I believe that the merger of C, T and D is going right on track. Unfortunately for Eckhard, the shareholders didn't believe we were moving quick enough. Watch this space for the likes of HP, IBM et. al. BTW, I'm no PHB or suit, just an employee with a job to do!

Well, this will most likely be moderated down (and for good reason!), but nevertheless I feel compelled to ask whether this is just a very good *parody* of corporate-speak, or if the original poster is in fact so far gone that he honestly believes that the above is meaningful communication.

Anonymous Coward...
...and not terribly proud of it, but hey, why not?

My Excel Still rocks! eory (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928007)

My Hyundai is an '88 second half of production season... First model with a computer. The mileage on this thing is still excellent. I have had to replace the radiator, tyres, Exhaust (once I ripped it off 4x4ing...) and thats about it.
I have 250,000 Kms on it, and still the original drive belt etc... I use it to tote my whitewater kayak around, and have taken it on some FIERCE roads. (hence ripping exhaust... Pretty much ENTIRE exaust system off...)

The thing still sings (burns a little oil though).
So please, dont compare a Hyundai Excel to Microsoft Excel... Its the first Excel with a computer in the engine... and still no GPF's!!!

Mr Flibble

SGI CEO resigns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928008)


Bah to most of you. Bah to you too. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928009)

Low-level support people everywhere hate Compaq desktop systems because of the proprietary stuff. If you take the time to read the documentation Compaq systems are very simple to troubleshoot, repair, and maintain. The Proliant server line are probably the best PC servers on the market- very expensive but worth it.

double bah! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928010)

I have to work with Compaq machines and they are nasty if you need to do anything inside - at least the desktops are.

They are also prone to overheating - compaq deskpro being vulnerable to that.

The movable parts are usually to flimsey, I trashed a deskpro because the disk chassis pulls out, but the leads that connect to the d/board are too short and damage the daughterboard - duh!

The video cards used aren't supported to high res/colour by X because they are awkward windows-dependant shite.

The BIOS and Boot are ridiculously slow too!

I haven' had that much experience with proliant servers but from the grumblings I've heard they are as bad the desktop trash I have to use.

Aaron (TheJackal/TeeJay)

Maybe... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928011)

Maybe - this guy has never worked with a REAL machine before. I've been in the business for 15 yrs as an admin. Compaq by far makes the best servers that I have ever worked on. Oh, and I do own one of those crappy home boxes from them also, it works great too :P

Compaq...umm, well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928012)

At my place of employment we (by laws of contract) have to use compaq boxs. Now compaq makes great NT server boxs if you have to support them (the laws thing again). Getting linux on a compaq server is just about impossible. Some of there older systems will run linux, but the newer systems just don't out of the box. There RAID controlers just don't work under linux and there is problems with there net cards. But if NT is what you have to run, get a compaq

Compaq...umm, well. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928013)

At my place of employment we (by laws of contract) have to use compaq boxs. Now compaq makes great NT server boxs if you have to support them (the laws thing again). Getting linux on a compaq server is just about impossible. Some of there older systems will run linux, but the newer systems just don't out of the box. There RAID controlers just don't work under linux and there is problems with there net cards. But if NT is what you have to run, get a compaq, they work.

Hey goto www.linuxhaven.com [linuxhaven.com] it's a neat toy!

Are you schizophrenic? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928014)

This is from the same poster who just a few hours ago predicted the imminent death of Compaq. Eric you may shut up now, we already know that you're clueless.

vms is no mistake (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928015)

Your'e right, here at Lawrence Technological University, we have 8 old (very old) DEC VAX's running VMS, and they will never break!

god, I wish they would break, why won't they break...

It's no surprise! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928016)

The public might have guessed the wrong reason for the resignation of these Compaq executives. They might be resigning because of the legal limitations of corporate fiduciary duty. Executives and board members can only be held responsible for problems that materialize while they hold their position. By resigning before the year 2000, any executive or board member can escape responsibility for Y2K. Take the money and run. Later this year, there are going to be a lot of rats leaving a lot of sinking ships. Y2K is not a failure of programming theory, but a failure of corporate theory. Strange idea----have unqualified, non-technical supervisors rule over competent, technical professionals.

It's no surprise! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928017)

I seriously doubt that it's Y2K-related. All of the products have been already certified as Y2K compliant, and the problems customers are likely to see will be in their applications, or in the crap coming out of Redmond, not in the hardware.

No, the reason he was forced out - and he was asked to resign by the Board of Directors - was the failure to deliver value in Q1. I think a secondary reason is the debacle over the leak about the poor sales in Europe back in February. There are a LOT of class-action stockholder suits pending (about 10 of them), and I suspect that Pfeiffer and Mason are being held responsible for causing/allowing the leak to happen in the first place and for not doing more about it after it happened. There are a number of others at the top who appear to have benefited from the information by selling their stock at the top of the market, and it wouldn't surprise me if more heads at the top levels of the company rolled as well.

But, it certainly wouldn't hurt for Compaq to clean up its PC act and start making hardware that is industry standard (like Pfeiffer tried to claim it was when Compaq bought Digital) at an attractive price.

"New DEC Shit" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928018)

Funny but DEC does a lot of stuff besides the Alpha.

Get a clue (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928019)

Someone replied: "Compaq should be broken up." Good grief! Compaq isnt doing any illegal business practices, nor do they have a monopoly.

Companies split themselves up for lots more reasons than antitrust concerns. And if you had bothered to read the post which mentioned it, I thought it was pretty clear that he was suggesting it because of lack of synergies between DEC and Compaq. Compaq might have gotten a good price for DEC but it is far from clear that any price would have made buying DEC make sense. Especially since DEC's glory days are in the past and most of their big money developments (e.g. SANs) are going to be money sinks for the next couple of years (and with the number of other people doing similar work it is anything but certain that the will be victories in the market place).

The Sky is Falling (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928020)

all of this is wonderful hype, but let's talk about reality.
the alpha is a doomed architecture. compaq is a dirty company. dec is dead.
alpha will be replaced by the k7 and merced within a year.. just a sad footnote in the history of computing.

Some of the stuff (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928021)

Anyone who speaks authoritatively about the market cracks me up.
This us user Sporto, I just forgot my password.
This is also my first ever post to /.
Have a day and a half.

mainframes dead?(I don't know what you're smoking) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928022)

If mainframes are dead, someone forgot to tell IBM. they still sell quite a bit of those things. you don't buy a mainframe when you want to serve files to some PCs, you buy a mainframe to have %99.999 uptime.

CPQ CEO, CFO, *and* AltaVista CTO (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928023)

Are there any press confirmations of this?
(I just like traditional references)

Maybe...Not (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928024)

Ah ah... Compaq makes servers, and rather good ones, too. Packard Bell they ain't. Compaq got the PC side of the industry started by reverse engineering the IBM PC. We owe them a debt of gratitude.

Of course, Presarios still suck...

Greener Pastures (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928025)

I thought I read that the Pfieffer's were working on some automotive innovation - gas turbine engine or something - that looked far more intruiging than running a PC company. If so, they made the more prudent move. Good Luck!

Eric FUD Thesis (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928026)

Hey people look what Eric posted under Mega Linux Boxes, Cheap ones too! on April 8th, 99.

Am I the only one who see something vile about his FUD..

Anyway his article follows..Next post is by some AC who replied to it. Eric time to change the colours..

Anonymous Cowards and Dell's quality

1) Dell is almost totally a "white box" operation, with the exception of the very high end of their line. In fact, the Compaq
guys make fun of Dell because so much of Dell's stuff is just off-the-shell commodity hardware. The Dell guys just smile all
the way to the bank.

2) I assure you that LHS and VA Research, at least, have people on staff who came from Compaq, Apple, etc. and are
quite familiar with the design centers at those compoanies.

3) VA Research no longer builds their own low-end computers. Those have been outsourced to Flextronics (or did you
miss their news release?). Most computer companies do this. Very few low-end computers are built by the company
whose badge is on the front cover. (Heck, even the iWhack is contracted out to such an outsourcing firm!).

4) In general, almost all facets of designing and building a computer can be outsourced now. I can't tell you details (sorry,
NDA), but basically it becomes a game of where your design dollars should go. In the $1K-$30K range Compaq cannot
build better motherboards than ASUS or Intel, and in fact they don't. What they do accomplish is creating motherboards
that are cheaper to add into manufactured computers. Ever wonder why so many components are integrated into
Compaq motherboards? Well, that saves a few dollars because those components can be automagically placed onto the
motherboard by robot pick'n'place machines, rather than having some poor slob have to spend thirty seconds slamming a
video card into a computer and spinning the retaining screw home.
But the thing about outsourcing is that the poor slob is now in Malaysia or Thailand and is being paid $3 per day. Given
that, why invest design dollars creating a board that reduces manufacturing costs, but which is actually technically inferior
to what can be bought off the shelf from ASUS or Intel? (I say technically inferior because integrated peripherals reduce
the flexibility and repairability of a computer, both of which are qualities which I personally value).

5) All that nonwithstanding, you are correct about being able to put together a system equal to that of VA Research, Dell,
or Linux Hardware Solutions out of off-the-shelf parts. In fact, any Joe Consultant in Cheyenne Wyoming can do the
same. That is what is so amazing about today as vs. 20 years ago, when that was definitely not the case.
Given that, vendors like VAR, LHS, etc. are not going to win by trying to out-engineer ASUS and Intel. Engineering
resources have to be carefully allocated to those areas where off-the-shelf hardware currently doesn't exist (I don't think I
can say more there, NDA etc). In the mainstream $1K-$30K server market, though, where any Joe Schmuck can buy the
exact same parts off the shelf, it's the services of systems integration and support that we sell. We sort through the dozens
of video cards and network cards and etc. out there so you don't have to, and then set things up and often times hunt up
or write drivers for things that need it (like for the Symbios 53c896-based stuff or the Mylex stuff). If you don't need those
services, build your own for crying out loud! That's why we put the parts lists up on our web sites, after all. But don't diss
those of us providing a valuable service just because you don't need that particular service!

-- Eric

Eric Lee Green -- Not speaking for LHS

Wrong paradigm shift. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1928027)

The PC is dead. Period. The net is new paradigm. Some people care what they are running. Most people don't care and couldn't tell what system they're running on. Apple or KDE? NT or 98? Gnome or whatever? 350 MHz or 500 MHz?

Take away their internet, though, and they'll notice.

SGI CEO resigns (1)

Alex Belits (437) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928028)


When he will complete his task -- destroying yet another company by selling it to M$, of course.

It was funny until... (1)

fractality (448) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928029)

This article was funny until someone walked into the office today with a PC matching most of the symptoms featured in the article.


Maybe... (1)

Skyshadow (508) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928030)

Maybe now they'll stop making crappy computers. Compaq, in my experience, is well on their way to becoming the next Packard Bell...


It's no surprise! (1)

Analog (564) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928031)

Saw an interview with him a while back in which he said he owns just over 20% of MS stock (I thought it was more too).

Even so, he's not going anywhere. Can you imagine what would happen to MS' stock price if he left?

Sign of changing paradigms (1)

Analog (564) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928032)

Disagree with you about Apple, but I liked your post. Linux will never kill Microsoft (they might do it to themselves, though ;), but I don't think it needs to. I think your post lays out nicely the reasons why Linux (and perhaps free software in general) is probably here to stay.

Disgruntled DELL employees? (1)

Eric Green (627) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928033)

For those of you who are DELL employees and who disagree with my thesis:

I am not trying to slam DELL. I admire DELL greatly.

I agree that Compaq is not going away. At the very low and at the high end, their approach works. What they need to do is get away from the proprietary crap in the $1K-$2k range (my opinion -- computers w/proprietary floppy drives?! Sheesh).

For those slamming VA Research, LHS, etc.: if you can build a better machine, DO IT. Nobody forces you to buy one from these guys. All I'll point out is that these guys have been supporting Linux from the beginning, rather than piddling silliness on Slashdot the way some people do. It wasn't DELL that donated the server that Slashdot is running on. It wasn't DELL that donated the servers that Debian's web and FTP sites are running on. Understand?

Regarding these folks being scared of DELL: You betcha. VAR, LHS, etc. are going to either have to staff up SWIFTLY and pour in a lot of venture capital money in order to match Dell's marketing reach, manufacturing and design ability, and quality, or else find a niche that Dell doesn't market into and quietly live a small life there. VA Research is taking venture capital, so I have a suspicion that I know which route they're taking. I won't comment on any other vendor's plans, for obvious reasons (conflict of interest, or etc.).

You may not care where I work, but others in the past have cared and have mistaken my views for those of my employer. Perhaps I should change my signature to simply say "These opinions are not my employer's" without mentioning a name, but on the other hand, it's not as if my EMAIL address and web site URL aren't a clue there (DUH!). I suspect in the future I'm going to have to purchase my own domain name and host my web site and EMAIL elsewhere, but at the moment I'm lazy and poor so I'm not doing it.

I usually don't respond to Anonymous Cowards for obvious reasons (they are usually trolls tossing out flame bait like yours). But so it goes.

-- Eric

[Not speaking for my employer.]

University students and Linux (1)

Eric Green (627) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928034)

I certainly hope that university students are not developing parts of Linux on university equipment. According to the terms & conditions that I had to sign to get a university account when I was in college, everything that I wrote on university equipment was university property.

One of the most shameful things happening at America's universities right now is that large amounts of the research being done will never see the light of day because either a) the university takes control of it and licenses it to a commercial party for money, or b) it's being done under contract to a commercial party in the first place.

I do agree that the major vendors' donations have been well appreciated by the smaller universities that have a need for them. I know that at the university that I graduated from, the computer science department sneered at PC's (they were Unix all the way, with a Sun workstation on every professor's desk), but the engineering department definitely didn't sneer at their lab-full of donated Zenith machines (whoops, I'm showing my age!).

-- Eric

Second-guessing Compaq (1)

Eric Green (627) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928035)

I guess part of it is that it's always fun to second-guess and pick nits with what a big company is doing. I don't think anybody seriously thinks that Compaq is going to go out of business. Rather, they are hitting a rough patch like IBM did ten years ago, for much the same reason -- too much proprietary stuff in their computers.

Compaq has great servers. Compaq has great laptops. They have great engineers working on those servers and laptops. (There's more that I can't say there, but you'll understand that later). Their mid-range desktop machines, on the other hand, have (or used to have, anyhow) entirely too much proprietary stuff in them. The question is whether Compaq can rein in their vaunted engineering department and focus their efforts towards bringing out good product in a timely manner, rather than spending months after the competition has come out with "generic" stuff in order to come out with their proprietary stuff.

Anyhow: It's fun second-guessing Compaq. But let's not attach too much importance to it. Compaq isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Hopefully, with renewed focus from corporate management and renewed attention to pruning their management bureaucracy, they will soon be once again turning the kinds of numbers that people expect from them.

-- Eric

Sign of changing paradigms (5)

Eric Green (627) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928036)

This is to all those computer companies out there that are wanting to be "the next Compaq": Don't. If you want to be "the next" anything, be "the next Dell".

Compaq's problems stemmed from the same basic flaw as Apple's problems: they engineered too much of their own hardware. That is acceptable for high-volume low-cost widgets like the $500 eMachines units, where scraping 15 cents off the cost can be millions in extra profits, but it is not acceptable in the $1K-$2K market. In that market, every Joe Consultant in Hoboken is building computers out of "white boxes" in their back room, and according to at least one survey that I saw, as much as 50% of the personal computers sold may be going through that channel.

Compaq's engineers have always laughed at Dell. They have sneered at Dell's "white boxes" (Dell does very little of their own design work, mostly re-packaging generic commodity components). Dell laughs all the way to the bank.

Apple is doomed, in the end, because they cannot compete on a cost-basis with equivalent Intel boxes. One company engineering all of their own hardware cannot compete with companies that outsource commodity hardware from specialists in that particular type of hardware. Apple cannot build a motherboard for as cheap as ABIT or some other company that specializes only in motherboards, for example.

Lessons learned:
Engineering your own hardware works only for ultra-low-cost-high-volume work, or for stuff there isn't enough volume for "generic" hardware. In the vast middle of the road, using commodity components gets you a better computer for a lower cost.

Why this is important to us:

Microsoft is like the Apple of the operating systems world. They engineer all of their own components in-house so that they can have "total control".

Linux, on the other hand, is the "white box" operating system of the new era. Linux vendors collect commodity software components from various locations, integrate them, and release the result as a single product. Much like a "white box" manufacturer looks through the available video cards to decide which one to put into his computer, the "white box" Linux vendor looks through the available 'lpd' daemons to decide which one to put in his distribution, for example. Then, like the 'white box' computer manufacturers, the 'white box' Linux vendor then differentiates himself from his competitors through a) the choice of components that he uses (e.g., glibc? libc5?), b), the kind of service he offers, c) "widget frosting", such as a nice installer, better config tool, or whatever, d) advertising and image. Part of which may be releasing software created internally as Open Source... for example, Red Hat gained much of their mind share in the early days by releasing things like 'rpm' as Open Source.

The value of this "white box" paradigm for creating operating systems is that it inevitably adds to the supply of commodity components for building operating systems, and thus will inevitably result in better operating systems components, much like having multiple video card vendors has resulted in better video cards. Bill Gates views the GNOME vs KDE thing as a weakness. I view it as a strength, much like nVidia vs. 3dfx. Just as having two 3d video card giants helps drive innovation in the 3d video card industry, having two desktop environment giants will inevitably help drive innovation in the desktop environment industry... and thus add to the supply of commodity components that we put together on a CD and call "Linux" (GNU/Linux, for you purists out there!).

-- Eric

It's no surprise! (2)

AshNazg (830) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928038)

I'm not surprised at this resignation: considering the profits warning, the shares tradind at half their january maximum, and several class action lawsuits against CPQ, i rather think this was to be expected.

Shareholders don't take it kindly when the share price halves.

The more interesting implication is that the same can happen to one hugely over-valuated software company, if there is even a little glitch in profits... Could we see resignations then? Could that glitch be a consequence of Linux?

Wishfull thinking...

It's been coming (1)

Stu Charlton (1311) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928039)

Compaq can't hold a candle to other direct manufacturers. They haven't been able to put a cap on their out of control inventory situation, they haven't been able to exploit Digital or Tandem... most of all, they concentrated on sub-$1000 consumer PC's when they knew that eroding margins should have kept them in the safe business-PC world (which, while competitive, doesn't have to deal with 'consumer ficklenss').

In short, "Getting bigger" doesn't mean "Getting Better", and poor Eckhard learned the lesson the hard way.

Take a hike!!! (1)

rbf (2305) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928040)

There are quite a few anti-Q people commenting. I don't see what the big deal is, Compaq is not dead, they are not dieing. The #1 PC making eats DEC and is having a bit of problem digesting all of it. It hasn't even been a full year since they gobbled DEC up, did you all think it would be all done and fine after a few months? So to all you anti-Q people, TAKE A HIKE!!!

ALPHA LINUX POWERED and loving it!

Hyundai Excel (1)

ksheff (2406) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928041)

You must have had one of the early ones without the Mitsubishi engine. I love mine. It's a great little MOT with that still can haul a lot with the back seat folded down (whenever my wife wants to get a small SUV, the benchmark is: Can it carry more than the Hyundai?. Most of the time the answer is no). I even towed a loaded UHaul trailer over the Rockies in 90F temps and across Kansas in 100F temps without a problem. Sure going up the incline to get to Eisenhower Tunnel was a little slow, but it kept on chugging. =)

Acting CEO is worse (2)

cjr (2590) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928042)

With Pfeiffer gone, Compaq now has an acting CEO in the person of Ben Rosen. During the trial Mr. Rosen has testified for Microsoft and lied in the process. Mr. Rosen claimed to have visited Redmond only once, which was when he was asked to testify.

However, the DOJ managed to dig up an e-mail from Bill Gates to Rosen kindly thanking him for the great effort he had made in coming to Redmond repeatedly on behalf of the trial.

I have never been interested in Compaq and know next to nothing about Pfeiffer. But right now they have a CEO whose allegiance to Microsoft is sufficiently strong that he is willing to lie for them even when under oath. That can't be good.

vms is no mistake (1)

Paul Jakma (2677) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928043)

vms is actually pretty good. granted it's a bit strange if you're used to unix, but people who actually use VMS say it's more user-friendly than unix, and are very fond of it.

the nicest thing about it is the way it *never* crashes. spoke to an eng at a vms site, and he hasn't seen a crash in the 3 years he's been there .

The Sky is Falling (1)

Robert Bowles (2733) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928044)

Here are a few disorganized points...
  • Under Pfeiffer's tenure at Compaq:
    (and since the DEC acquisition)
    • A DS20(DP264) was donated to Linus Torvalds.
    • An AS1200 was donated to ALO [alphalinux.org]
    • Compaq released ("free") fast-math libraries for AlphaLinux, along with plans for optimized compilers.
    • Almost every (new) document about Compaq/Alpha mentioned linux (ie: "New for Tru64 and Linux".)
    • Compaq announced product lines targeted at the Linux-market (DS10).
    • Summary: There was never that level of linux-committment from Intel. Go to IBM's site, and they'll tell you that Linux is the perfect-fit for low-end/low-demand systems, in stark contrast with AIX.
  • Alpha: Lets pretend it doesn't exist
    • Even the "old"(21164) Alpha's beat new Intel's in integer perf. Comparing fp-perfs isn't even fair.
    • 21164's also easily beat the other "best-of-breed" (Sparc/Mips) in both integer and fp, as well as having a dramatically lower unit cost.
    • 21264 (new+expensive) offers significantly better performance than any other cpu, while remaining price-competitive with Sparc/Mips.
    • Microsoft (non_intel==fringe)
      People thinking within the mainstream is a critical element to MS's success. As soon as a consumer's mind wanders outside the NT/Intel sandtrap (even into NT/Alpha), who knows where it might go next? No wonder MS ignored the Alpha.
    • Summary: Alpha has been the enemy of the computer industry giants since inception.
I hear a death-knell... Anyone else?

Server and laptop service is pretty good, though (1)

sphealey (2855) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928045)

Have to agree with you on the Compaq desktop boxes. But in the laptop and server (Proliant) market, where everything is pretty much propriatary anyway, my coworkers and I have found Compaq's service and support to be pretty good. Their 800 support for server has talked me through some bizarre problems (usually of my own making) at 4 AM on Sunday morning more than once.


I don't know what you're smoking (1)

aheitner (3273) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928046)

Compaq may have some corporate bulk. And their standard PCs make be nonstandard @#$% I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

I guess I don't like Compaq much at all.

But they do have a right to sell Wintel boxes, and their servers are all right.

And I do love Digital. Why are they a dinosaur? Because they make the fastest chips in the world? Because everyone's favorite HolyOS runs damn fast on the fastest chips in the world?

Ok, VMS is a continuing mistake. But they don't make me use it.

As long as Compaq supports Digital's WRL and cool toys like the Itsy, they're all right in my book.

I would guess not (2)

aheitner (3273) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928047)

Alpha is successful product line, representing the absolute bleeding edge in processor technology. There are quite a few industries out there which require that kind of flexibility, and Alpha has always been quite price competitive since Digital always sold individual chips to OEMs, and the machines used so much standard Intel hardware.

The Digital arm of Compaq has a hell of a commitment to Alpha, and a lot of R&D invested in the next gen 21364. Alpha is already supported by Linux and WinNT, and if Merced is a flop is well poised to become the 64bit successor to IA32, as companies demand 64bit power that works easily with their existing applications.

I think it'll be around for a long time.

Bah to most of you. Bah to you too. (1)

tetlowgm (4161) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928048)

Well, I really don't like Compaq's because everyone I've worked on is poorly designed and has some proprietary something-or-other that *never* makes it work quite right. Trust me, I've worked in computer maintenance and most of the problems (that weren't laptops) were Compaqs.


18.5% (2)

Teflik (4823) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928049)

According to the Bill Gates Net Worth Page [quuxuum.org] Bill Gates currently owns 18.5% of Microsoft. When Microsoft stock first went public, he owned 49.8%.

Either way, I doubt that he could ever be forced out of the CEO job, unless things were really bad.

Mark Fassler
fassler at frii dot com

I don't know what you're smoking (1)

jht (5006) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928050)

Heck, I like VMS. A lot. Cut my teeth on it at Northeastern back in the mid '80s. But, like mainframes once were last decade, minis are now a dying technology. Mainframes already are dead - but my definition of dead isn't that they don't exist or that people aren't making money on them. Dead to me means that the technology no longer supports a large variety of vendors and that technology improvements are more or less incremental to the point of being maintenance.

Companies will milk minicomputers for revenues for a long time - but think about how many mainframe vendors are still standing. They do OK because the margins are so high, but it's not a growth business anymore.

Minicomputers are on their way to that point - with lower margins than mainframes. Sure, DEC makes Alpha, and Alpha rocks. And they've done some cool stuff in the labs. But their core business is a ferocious, cutthroat industry where margins are non-existent and everybody runs the same software with no differentiation (MS Windows Whatever). Compaq counted on DEC and Tandem to diversify their revenues and get more $ from services in order to combat the Wintel clone problem. So far, they get an 'F'.

Besides, DEC (though Alpha is the balls) stands in a corner with Novell as two companies with great products and crappy marketing. DEC would sell sushi as "raw dead fish". Though truth in advertising is great for engineers, reality dictates otherwise. While the DECs and Novells of the world preach to the choir, their competition always sold to the PHBs above. Once IT started maturing as a profession and the suits took over, DEC didn't change.

And I love the Proliant 1600s - I've bought six of 'em in the last year. And one Proliant 6000 with dual Xeons - it's sweet. As for smoking though, it's a vile habit. I do eat too much and work out too little, though...

Back in the '70s and '80s (2)

jht (5006) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928051)

In the previous two decades, the big iron vendors all bought each other out while the minicomputer vendors (like DEC and Tandem) nimbly skirted them and thrived. Back then those smaller companies were the mammals - staying out of the way while the poor, doomed dinosaurs mated above them.

Today, the DECs and Tandems have become the dinosaurs. And Compaq, despite their servers (I love 'em), has started to turn into one, too.

The fundamental problem this time that differentiates a Compaq from an Apple in the turnaround effort is that Apple has gotten where they are by being different - an alternative to the prevailing Wintel near-monopoly. Compaq, despite owning Alpha, VMS, and their belated embrace of Linux, is just a Wintel vendor at heart. And Wintel companies are a dime a dozen.

For Apple, thinking different means something. For Compaq, it just means they're Dell with a higher cost structure, more outside salesmen, and Alpha chips. Whoopee.

I'll buy some shares in case they turn around (what the hell - they're cheap now), but I'm not going to bet the house on them.

Gee, is Compaq now "beleagured?" (1)

Electric Eye (5518) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928052)

I wonder if everyone's going to kick this company while it's down, just like Apple. Waiting......

Some of Compaq's Problems (1)

Adrian Harvey (6578) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928054)

Maybe prople didn't know this, but Compaq have been having a lot of trouble with their supply/inventory/financials systems. This has resulted in huge delays in delivery, even on relatively common parts.

They always used to have supply troubles, esp. in the Asia-Pacific region (where I am) but everything was supposed to be fixed by the new SAP system being implemented.... Needless to say, it hasn't, in fact things have gotten *much* worse.

Rumor has it that the cutover to SAP was supposed to happen in one weekend! It dragged on for months.

This may have had an impact on the bottom line, but it would certainly have had an impact on customer satisfaction levels....

Ben Rosen . Smart as they come.. (1)

bstadil (7110) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928055)

Ben Rosen Is as smart as they come. He used to cover the sc industry back in the late 70's before he got involved in VC and he was the best in the business. He has a firm technology grip, much better than Eckhard Pfeiffer that I used to work for (Directly). This was back in the TI days.

Duh! - Buy Dell instead - Compaq wishes they did! (1)

Cjoh (8885) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928056)

Why should I buy Dell when Compaq is having a half price sale?

Strong Buy (2)

Cjoh (8885) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928057)

Once their quarterly report comes out, and the reprecussions are set in (About a week after their quarterly report), I'm buying as much compaq as I can. The fact of the matter is, the company is not going anywhere, they own what may be the world's best search engine (as long as they dont implement that damn pay-for-search-results), and have a historic financial track record. I think Compaq is just having some financial troubles, but soon it will be back on track. I said the same thing about Apple two years ago. Compaq is having a similar experience.

And no, I don't work for Compaq. But I am looking forward to being a shareholder soon.

Strong Buy (0)

pdm (9380) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928058)

And I do work for Compaq/Digital.

We just won a service excellence award, and we're trucking as usual.

Compaq isnt going anywhere. Compaq's not stupid. Their consumer market machines might "suck", but look at the target market. Its for your average/new home user that walks into Best Buy.

The high end servers are still tip-top, and Compaq is still #2 (behind IBM).

And supposidly, we are going to be supporting Linux sites soon.

Bah to most of you. (2)

pdm (9380) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928059)

After reading all the replies, I'm disgusted :)

Someone replied: "Compaq should be broken up." Good grief! Compaq isnt doing any illegal business practices, nor do they have a monopoly.

50% of the posts consist of "Compaq Sucks, or bla bla". Get real. How many proliants are installed that have failed? I have a P-90 (Proliant) machine thats been on and running for years without a problem. And what brand are you using? The I-pieced-it-from-parts-donated-to-me brand?

The CEO and some crew resigned. Its not the end of Compaq. Its not like the whole employee based walked out, its the upper management.

I think a lot of you are quick to criticize if it isnt VA Research/Red Hat or some other "linux-friendly" computer or software company.

God. 10 years ago it was the Macintosh Religious Group - the people that preached that Macintosh was just. better.

Now its the Linux is just. better.

Kudos for believing in something, I guess. Non-kudos for not keeping an open mind.


Duh! - Buy Dell instead - Compaq wishes they did! (1)

Cassius (9481) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928061)

Compaq has been unable to beat Dell in reducing inventories.

Compaq's sales model is in disarray, and they have never truly absorbed DEC.

Some of the stock talk in Slashdot cracks me up.

The Best Chip Does Not Necessarily Win (1)

Cassius (9481) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928062)

There is more to the chip market than performance.

Firstly, Alphas have historically been expensive.

Secondly, Alphas have very little native-ported software that people care about, at a price-point that makes it worthwhile to move to the platform.

Thirdly, Alpha was oringally a product of DEC, and doomed early by poor marketing.

The only comapny that will destroy Intel will be the one to provide the same (or better) performance of x86 apps, at or below half of the cost. Expensive chips are passe.

Agreed! (1)

Seraph (9484) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928063)

Their consumer market machines might "suck", but look at the target market. Its for your average/new home user that walks into Best Buy.

The high end servers are still tip-top, and Compaq is still #2 (behind IBM).

Very true. While Compaq's low-end PC's (and service) leave much to be desired, their servers are top-notch. The Alpha machines are fast and stable, and Digital Unix running on them is well-organized and highly standards compliant. My job involves coding in C++ under DU 4.0 on Alphas, and the machines found a spot in my heart rather quickly.

Compaq needs to be broken up ... (1)

narnian (9597) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928064)

I'm afraid that I'd have to disagree. I have moved from Digital into Compaq, and I believe that the company has good and great intentions. Compaq is a juggernaut that is difficult to turn on a dime. Where moving from being focused on shipping PCs to delivering a a total end-to-end solution.

All of the large IT companies need to demonstrate that the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Compaq is trying its darndest to develop solutions that meet enterprise needs, horizontally and vertically. We will be using both best-of-breed inhouse and partner-developed solutions meet this end. See Next Generation Networks Infrastructure for example (http://www.compaq.com/services/ngni). And I believe that the merger of C, T and D is going right on track.

Unfortunately for Eckhard, the shareholders didn't believe we were moving quick enough. Watch this space for the likes of HP, IBM et. al.

BTW, I'm no PHB or suit, just an employee with a job to do!

Maybe... (1)

Miguelito (13307) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928065)

An I disagree with this point. Maybe I'm spoiled by living in San Diego (since you can't go a block without running into a small computer store) but if you want to buy a computer, you're going to pay way to much if you go to one of the places you list. There are several smaller dealers in this town with service, prices, and selection that leaves those appliance stores so far behind it's not even funny.

They've all sold quality clone boxes with AMD, Cryix, etc chips for years... long before Compaq even thought of it. Do you think if the small store/clone market hadn't helped the popularity of Intel-alternate CPUs that Compaq would've bothered to sell them at all? People probably wouldn't even know about those other chips.

Maybe... (1)

dirty (13560) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928066)

Well the mother boards and floppy drives are still very proprietary. The floppy drives cost you about $90 a pop. My school has a number of computers w/ no floppies cuz they refused to pay such an outrageous price for a drive. And if the motherboard dies they just junk the box.

It's no surprise! (1)

dirty (13560) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928067)

I doubt Bill gates could be forced to resign. I think he owns more than 50% of the stock so the way I understand it (which isn't very well) even if every other share holder joined against him, they still couldn't force him out.

Maybe... (1)

stealthbob (15597) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928068)

I work for a reseller and we sell mostly Compaq. When I took the job I thought these computers would suck just as much as the retail Presarios. I was suprised that they aren't as bad. The servers are pretty good and the deskpros are now all standard based pcs..no propreitary HW. Remember, Compaq has done a lot of good for the industry. They make wonderful tape arrays and the invented hot plug pci slots. Thats pretty exciting stuff. Not to mention you can order their professional workstations and their alpha servers with Linux preinstalled. Also if it wasn't for compaq paving the way with sub 1000 dollar pcs, those AMD & Cyrix chips alot of you like probably wouldn't have gotten the attention they deserve.

Compaq (+DEC) has been headed for a fall (2)

apsmith (17989) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928069)

Most companies follow almost the same curve of growth and decline, the differences between them being how long the cycle takes, how high they get, and how many down cycles they manage to catch soon enough to reinvent themselves before going out of business. DEC had a slow climb and a pretty slow fall from its peak in the minicomputer years of the early to mid '80's (this is a mindshare thing, not directly related to sales or profits). Compaq had a pretty steep climb to prominence through the 80's, but when I heard Compaq was buying DEC (and Pfeiffer's pronouncements about building a $50 billion company) I knew it was not a good sign for either company. Some companies manage to reinvent themselves - IBM, Microsoft, and Apple have done it at least once in the last few years. But I think Compaq+DEC has probably left it too late this time. We'll see how it all turns out.

Sign of changing paradigms (1)

jeff_C (19805) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928070)

Compaq has been over engineering their products for years now. It's great for the server products, but for the desktops it has been their downfall. They are usually at least three months behind in introducing new products compared to Dell this means they lose the early high profit from new processors and such.
Their market share in the corporate world has been shrinking because Dell's service is better and cheaper. I hope they get back on track, but a major change is needed.

(I've worked in one Compaq shop and two Dell shops. The difference is unbelievable. In large enviroments supporting Compaq desktops is a pain in the ass.)


Maybe... (1)

Cowards Anonymous (24060) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928071)

Also if it wasn't for compaq paving the way with sub 1000 dollar pcs, those AMD & Cyrix chips alot of you like probably wouldn't have gotten the attention they deserve.

Funny, I seem to recall being a K6 owner for about 8 or 10 months before Compaq took an interest in any of AMD's CPUs; and if I remember correctly, the chip I purchased was in such hot demand that I had to scour the city to find one.

I wouldn't be quite so generous with equating Compaq with positive press. Compaq has done good things sometimes, but certainly bringing AMD to the forefront of the consumer processor market isn't something that could be credited to them.

Compaq CFO (1)

Grimoire (28962) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928072)

For those of you intersted in where Compaq's ex-CFO has gone click here [alliantfs.com]

(My statements do not necessarily reflect those of my employer)

you have a point (1)

mistabobdobalina (29109) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928073)

imho apple has a GREAT opportunity in consumer devices/appliances...wintel vendors will see incredible margins pressure (as they now are). eckhair's way to get out of this was to "emphasize" ecommerce but this is a played-out strategy and they should really be looking at new computing appliances and other directions for growth. (and cater to IT as well at the high end, which can also have good marigns)

Compaq needs to be broken up ... (1)

lazzaro (29860) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928075)

There never really was much synergy
with buying Tandem and DEC, it harked
back to an era when CEO's didn't get
humunous stock options, and so they
built empires to gratify their egos.
Watch for a trivestiture with the new
CEO ...

Compaq needs to be broken up ... (1)

lazzaro (29860) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928076)

But what does Ben Rosen know about managing a
computer company where you sometimes have to
design the key components (hardware and software)
yourself? It's like taking the CEO of Rite-Aid
drug stores and putting him in charge of Merck.
And if Rosen doesn't get it, the person he hires
to take over probably won't either ... just like
Pfieffer didn't.

Re: An AC replied to Erics FUD theory (1)

Saltheart (32740) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928077)

The question I have to ask is why Dell doesn't put out any Linux boxes that can go head to head with VAR, Penquin, LHS, etc. I went to their website, and the best Linux solution they have to offer is a PowerEdge 2300. Why don't they offer Linux support for their rack optimized PowerEdge 6350? Sounds to me like VAR's 60 employees and Penguin's 30 employees are doing a little better than Dell's 800 engineers. Of course, I'm sure the quality of their work will jump once you arrive there.

At any rate, unless they can come up with Linux on a bigger machine, I will probably go elsewhere for my enterprise solutions.

Its about time (1)

EricHeinz (34163) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928079)

Its about time that Compaq's CEO resigns. There refusal to use standards has hurt the industry. Hopefully that will be taken care of.

dec albatross (1)

quark2universe (38132) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928080)

Don't misunderstand me, I cut my first teeth on a VAX, but DEC is a huge albatross for Compaq. DEC has been losing big money for years now. Compaq was arrogant to think they could turn that around. The CFO must be stupid, stupid, stupid for pushing numbers like 31 cents per share.

Bah to most of you. (1)

tomaclc (38827) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928081)

As a former MacAddict, I appreciate the religious ferver involved here. It helps create and grow industries. It can also kill that growth. No one ever got religion from Compaq, and it's where it is. Lots of folks got religion from Apple, and what a (terrible) ride.

Take the good, excuse the bad, and move on.

UT OH! (1)

alanp (179536) | more than 14 years ago | (#1928082)

I wonder what will become of the new DEC shit that would be coming out, will it be getting better since the guy resigned, or worse?

Alan L. * Webmaster of www.UnixPower.org
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