×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

Apple Denies Opensourcing Quicktime/Changes APSL

CmdrTaco posted more than 14 years ago | from the stuff-to-read dept.

Apple 52

webslacker writes "According to Macintouch, several Apple sources are denying that Quicktime will actually be opensourced. It could just end up being a simple confusion of Quicktime viewers and Quicktime server, seeing as how news.com made it sound as if all of Quicktime is going to be opensource. " Here is Yesterday's Story on the subject. Update: 04/19 06:17 by H :Apple has said, however, that the newly unveiled QuickTime Streaming Server will be included under the Apple Public Source License.

cancel ×
This is a preview of your comment

No Comment Title Entered

Anonymous Coward 1 minute ago

No Comment Entered

52 comments

Justification (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926642)

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990419/ca_apple_c_1.ht ml

It's all academic now.

Have a nice day,

AC

Justification (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926643)

PS. yes, its the server, not QT. that would be ludicrous.

Have a nice day,

AC

QT, AVI? Forget both. Useg MPEG. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926644)

I really don't see any benefit to either M$'s AVI format or Apple's QT. Both always result in larger files of lower quality than MPEG video, which anyone can play on any platform nowadays and is the video format in DVDs (MPEG2) and even in VCDs (MPEG1). Okay, I admit the 360-degree, scrollable QT images are neat, but not worth being locked into one company's standard. We just need better Open Source decoders AND *encoders*.

Updated APSL with new QT release (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926645)

Apple has released the Streaming Server portion of QT 4 to the Open Source community under the APSL. It also says that it has updated the APSL "in response to feedback". The updated APSL hasn't showed up on their site yet... it's still dated March 16/99.

All links available from http://www.macnn.com

QT, AVI? Forget both. Useg MPEG. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926646)

Funny isn't it how QuickTime has been chosen as the transport layer for the MPEG4 standard?

not likely after that APSL fiasco (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926647)

Don't be impressed by the Slashdot idiots. Darwin didn't get trounced. In fact the Mac, NeXT and possibly *BSD communities really appreciate it. We're all waiting for Apple to release the binary distro and the missing parts like the DriverKit. Stay tuned.

Well, no sources mentioned (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926648)

Perhaps reading the press release would be enough evidence?

yea!!!!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926649)

YEA!!!!!!!!
Things can only get better.!!!!!!!!!!!

APSL 1.1 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926650)

Ok.. that is nice... you can stream anything quicktime... from any platform you want for free... That is cool if you ask me!!
Whatever you guys say... I have a lot of experience qith digital video and Quicktime really is the best standard available out there right now...

Hey The APSL has been upgraded... among interesting things is that it is a lot shorter now and easier to understand!! It seems that there are no longuer any mentions of export laws and this stuf... So these are good things...

It seems that you still have to post your changes but they insist on this only if you actually deploy these modifications to the code.... I never had a problem with this... but the clarifications are welcomed!

Ok.. I haven't seen anything about a termination clause... I am sure there is still one... maybe better define than before.. .but I am sure there is one.. at least if the terms of the license are broken... you know... what would be the point of a license if you can't enforce it!... Anyway.. that looks like good stuff to me... Not the best imaginable but Good news indeed!

yea!!!!!!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926651)

YEA!!!!!!!!
Things can only get better.!!!!!!!!!!!
We geeks, ac's, and nerds are on our way to concer the world.!!!!!!!
Linux, Apache, *BSD (including darwin), Hurd, Gimp, KDE, E., WINE!!!!

Winers of the world unite in promoting active change.

This is the (relatively near) future.

Where are our Fearless Leaders (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926652)

I'm waiting to comment on the APSL until after I hear what BP and ESR and OSI, and maybe even CT himself have to say about it.

That way I'll know whether or not to think this is a good thing.

Seriously...it's suprising how without the controversy of a BP/ESR debate on the subject how few people are posting on the thread.

Maybe without leadership the linux crowd is less likely to raise a fuss and just get the coding done.

APSL CHANGED (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926653)

The terminatin clause has never been an issue except for Bruce Perens and his ilk. OTOH the inclusion of the US export law rendered the APSL 1.0 unacceptable for anyone not living in the United States. This has been fixed.

APSL 1.1 more tweek than rewrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926654)

Gawd, they should have left #8 in there. Now all the zit-faced Linux kiddies (who are BOTH minors AND incompetent) will get to play with it. :)))

Can you say "sheep" ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926655)

I'm disgusted. That is a seriously irrational philosophy: let's wait for our "leader" to tell us what to think.
That's the sheep-mentality that keeps people buying M$ products.

I agree, the Linux "crowd" could get coding done, but of late the Linux community is getting defensive and, as I said earlier, irrational.

The new APSL is much easier to understand; read it for yourself and *then* look at others' comments. Don't wait for a leader to do it for you. That disturbs me.

Can you say "sheep" ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926656)

I think the AC was joking. Note the "seriously now," followed by a joke/criticism of the fact that people aren't drawn to this issue without the involvement of the initials crowd?

Can you Say Sarcasm? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926657)

I knew that you could.

Have a cookie.

APSL 1.1 more tweek than rewrite (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926658)

Let 'em play with it all they want as long as there's adult supervision of the codeline. I'm still waiting to see how Apple handles their relationship with external developers. If they manage to craft a constitution that discourages one-party rule and the development agenda can be managed in a multipartite manner, then I will be amped.

Can you say "sheep" ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926659)

That was sort of the point.

If an Open Source Liscense falls from an Apple tree in the middle of the forest and BP isn't there to trash it, did it really happen?

QT, AVI? Forget both. Useg MPEG. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926660)

Yes, precisely. And as mentioned, QT is the MPEG 4 transport medium.

And I seriously doubt you got better compression with an mpeg codec than with somehting like sorenson video (think nice pretty Star Wars trailer)

QT, AVI? Forget nothing. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926661)

Not to mention the fact that MPEG is not as easily edited as QuickTime, nor is it able to support funky resolutions (such as the non-letterboxed, non-cropped cinematic resolution of the Ep. 1 trailer). Hell, you ever see a single-file interactive MPEG? IIRC, that damn annoying Buy QuickTime 3 Pro movie is an interactive movie file, FYI...

- Dopiate

QuickTime streaming only released today! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926662)

QT streaming has nowhere to go but up! M$ and RealNetworks are quaking in their boots over thie new competitor with Open Source Streaming Server software. IBM and SGI have already announced they will incorporate QT Streaming Server into their products...

New Star Wars trailer optimized for QuickTime 4! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926663)

This rocks!

Old trailer: 480x216 pixels, 22 kHz stereo.
New trailer: 640x288 pixels, 44 kHz stereo

File size: unchanged!

Requires QuickTime 4.0.

Download both at apple.com/quicktime.

Yo buddy, MPEG 4 is based on QuickTime (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926664)

MPEG 4 is the successor to MPEG 2, and yes it is based on QT.

Quicktime plays just about everything and then some. MP3, Flash, this 'n that.

So sure, it's bigger than 1MB, but if ya got it, your set.

QT streaming uses standards, make your own client. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926665)

Really. Make your own client. QT uses the RTP/RTSP protocols for web streaming, so you don't need a QT player...

Public lists (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926666)

http://webx.lists.apple.com/?14@^821@.ee77a05

There are no comments there yet, but Apple has made a discussion list for "QTSS-Open-Source-Development". My guess is that this is there because Apple plans to do it.

Apple denies all rumors until there is a product announcement.

Have a nice day,

AC

Funny...Apple gets so much time here at /. (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926667)

Funny that Apple and all it's supposed irrelevance get so much time hear at /. (and everywhere else too).

Would be great if QT were opened as much as possible (i know it can't be 100% open cause Apple doesn't own all the technologies in it). It's good technology (just ask George Lucas), and the upcoming QT 4 will be pretty darned powerful.

I hope that they at least open the server portion. It's been rumored for months that they will.

YESSSS!!!! US export law no longer in APSL! (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 14 years ago | (#1926668)

The offending part is gone at last! Kudos to Mr. Schoen for being the first one to point out the potential problems with the old paragraph 13.1.

Thanks Apple for listening.

Like I said yesterday (1)

heroine (1220) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926669)

They'll break down and release it for Linux eventually. I'd be surprised if they didn't have at least a Linux binary by Applefest or Macworld or whatever it is. We need to show an overwhelming desire for a Quicktime compile on Linux even if it means writing our own Quicktime library and shoving it down their throat.

If it's good enough for Real Networks... (1)

pberry (2549) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926670)

> but like so many things, it may be on the wane.

With the success of the Star Wars trailer, I doubt it. It may be on the wane with unix users since xanim can't handle the new codes (through no fault of its own obviously!)

> MS Netshow, RealVideo, etc. are (arguably) on their way up.

Which is why I think Apple is trying to put a foot on their throat and squash them all. They obviously want QT to be they video platform.

As for how they plan to address the growing number of *nix users is a big question. Maybe when they have QT4 client up to snuff on Mac OS X Server then can work on porting it to the other platforms.

Of course, all the 'Be free or die' people will say that it wont be on all platforms until they GPL the source. Because we all know that all those people running Plan 9 out there really want QT4 ;-)

RE:not likely after that APSL fiasco (1)

Versalius (3953) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926672)

Sorry, but Apple has just jumped back into the fire. Checkout the two urls below. The ASPL was updated to 1.1 today and a Darwin streaming sever was released under it.

http://www.publicsource.apple.com/apsl/
http://www.publicsource.apple.com/projects/streami ng/

not likely after that APSL fiasco (1)

ferret (4281) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926673)

they tried to go Opensource with Darwin but got firmly trounced. don't expect then to opensource anything else anytime soon. looks like Darwin may die too judging by the sudden lack of effort by Apple to do anything more or even comment on it.

it worked!!! (1)

ferret (4281) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926674)

everytime I'm negative about something like this the results are good. everytime I begin to feel like Apple really needs to shape up and I get a bad attitude they go and renew my hope. yes folks, this one only took a few hours to get results. I've been singlehandidly saving Apple with my 'bad attitude'tm since 1996 :->

If it's good enough for Real Networks... (1)

David E. Smith (4570) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926675)

Yes, Apple has continuously made lots of money from QuickTime, but like so many things, it may be on the wane.



MS Netshow, RealVideo, etc. are (arguably) on their way up. And neither of those companies seem too likely to start throwing source code at us anytime soon. (Insert requisite guffaws re: Microsoft here.)



Taking something this popular, and giving away at least the viewer part of the code, could be successful. They might even adopt the Real Networks model - keep some of the best stuff for themselves, to sell off (say, the server) and give the viewer away. Only this time, with attendant source code, and a real license (none of this weird Apple license stuff, which has entirely too many bugbears in it).



I'm not saying it's likely, not even that it's necessarily wise. But it is an option...

Whoops (1)

David E. Smith (4570) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926676)

"Whoops" is right. They got it all backwards. What good is a free server if there aren't any free clients out there?

A Linux port? (aka Compiling it on Linux x86) (1)

Dogcow (7944) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926677)

It's nice to flail about worrying about the license, but has anyone looked at the source with a desire to have it compile on x86 Linux or even LinuxPPC?

I had a quick look at it, but the Makefile appears to be heavily slanted towards only working with the NeXTStep compiler/development management system.

Anyone having any luck with it?

QT, AVI? Forget both. Useg MPEG. (1)

eponymous cohort (8637) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926678)

Mpeg does me no good if the things I want to view are in AVI or Quicktime format. Granted that I don't view a lot of video on my computer, but when there is something that I do want to view, it is almost always in Quicktime format.

Darwin Streaming Server Released as Open Source (1)

Evan Vetere (9154) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926679)

It's official. I just received this email from Apple:

Today we are pleased to ratchet up our involvement with Open Source via two major announcements: [snip]

- The Darwin Streaming Server, an Open Source version of the QuickTime Streaming Server http://www.publicsource.apple.com/projects/streami ng/ [apple.com]

That sounds pretty 'released' to me. I'm downloading it now.

Well, no sources mentioned (1)

Anarchitect (9282) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926680)

I don't know why everybody seems to think this rumor is early fact - so far, I haven't seen any source to backup the initial story on news.com.

Rumors and speculation are just that - and if they don't pan out, blame the rumor mongers, not the subjects of hearsay.

APSL 1.1 more tweek than rewrite (1)

jope (9672) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926681)

Wouldn't exactly call it a "rewrite". Diff'ing between versions 1.0 and 1.1, the only changes I see are:
  1. addition of a definition for "Affected Original Code"
  2. modification of the definition for "Original Code" to also include object code compiled from the Apple-provided source code
  3. replacing all instances of "patents" with "patent rights"
  4. addition of "if available" with regards to Apple's web site, and the requirement to submit modifications there
  5. infringement claim on Original Code (i.e. the aforementioned "Affected Original Code") result changed from "terminate Your rights to use" to "suspend Your rights to use, reproduce, modify, sublicense and distribute"
  6. an explicit note of allowance on the previous item for "replacing the Affected Original Code with non-infringing code or independently negotiating for necessary rights from such third party"
  7. removal of the "Export Law Assurances" clause
  8. removal of the requirement that licensees "be of majority age and otherwise competent to enter into contracts"
  9. #2 closes a loophole. #4 thru #7 deal with specific complaints I've heard voiced. #8 makes the code available to Script Kiddies and madmen. =) Getting closer to what it should be, at least.

  10. --
    "Merging into heavy traffic at near light speed!"

QT, AVI? Forget both. Useg MPEG. (1)

Dwebb (10959) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926682)

QuickTime is primarily a transport mechanism for different media formats, and it ships with the ability to read several different formats (encapsulated in codecs), MPEG being one of them.

Saying "support MPEG instead of QuickTime" is like saying "use blue ink instead of pens."

APSL Version 1.1 (1)

Greg Titus (11738) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926683)

Is here [apple.com].

Anyone who is more legaleeze savvy care to comment on whether the previous brokenness has been fixed?

If it's good enough for Real Networks... (1)

IntlHarvester (11985) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926684)


I don't know of any video editing solutions based on Real or NetShow. Real/Netshow are broadcast solutions which QuickTime does not even compete with (at least until next week).
--

Whoops...Apple is smart. (1)

remymartin (12145) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926685)

"Whoops" is right. They got it all backwards. What good is a free server if there aren't any free clients out there?

Actually, no. RTP and RTSP are IETF standards. Somebody needs to make a Linux viewer that is aware of these standards and then you can watch anything streamed from QTSS provided it is using a codec that you have. I don't think anybody is going to stream sorenson because it takes up too much CPU power. Most likely it will use MPEG1 or cinepak compression and those codecs can already be had.


Another point is that a lot of the people that will use QTSS probably won't care about watching it, or only care if Windows and Mac clinets can. They love having a streaming server based on open standards(RTP and RTSP) and not something fed from Real or MS. These sites are porn sites, and since we know no Linux users look at porn, then people at slashdot shouldn't worry, right?

Oh, and some news sites might like them too.


remy

http://www.mklinux.org

Is this a really big deal ? What about the player? (1)

Vlady (12209) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926686)

I am not sure if I should jump in the air out of joy or what. For me personally I don't think there is much advantage to QT streaming server being open sourced. I won't be able to view streaming QuickTime clips on my Linux box :-(. I have a RealPlayer and RealServer for Linux which works pretty good so why would I want to switch to QuickTime ? Anyone has any clue ?


Does anyone also have any idea when Progressive Networks might be coming out with RealPlayer G2 version for Linux ?

APSL CHANGED (1)

wahay (12517) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926687)

Hey folks. I noticed this in the title of the original post, but it wasn't commented on.

The APSL has been changed to eliminate the termination clause that caused so much whining. It looks to be a whole lot more similar to the NPL now.

So much for Apple not listening.

Whoops (1)

webslacker (15723) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926688)

Macintouch seems to have taken off the link, which was at the very top of their front page. Kinda curious why.

Either way, server is opensource, the viewers are not. I don't use Linux myself, but I believe that the Linux user base is big enough now to warrant a little more engineering effort on Apple's part to port it to Linux. Sorenson is an awesome codec and should be more widely available, free or not.

QT as Open Source (2)

The Cheese (17421) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926689)

While I would love to see Apple develop QuickTime as an Open Source project, I cannot possibly believe that it would ever happen.
QT is one of Apple's few long-time cash cows; without QT for Windows and the MacOS, multimedia content would be seriously lessened, and I truly believe that Apple plows the money that QT garners back into it's research and development.

-The Cheese

Apple responds to the community (1)

Anpu (29282) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926690)

I, for one, am very happy to see the changes in the APSL. They acknowledged their first license as a first attempt and requested input. After serious issues were raised (almost lost amongst the ranting and raving), they have made some significant changes. At first glance, they have cleaned up the definition of affected code, eased the reporting clause, and eliminated the export restriction. With time, we will get a better idea of if this fully complies with the idea of open source. In any case, I sincerely thank those that commented constructively on the license, and offered encouragement to Apple. I also hope this bodes well for things to come.

not likely after that APSL fiasco (1)

mrfusty (34081) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926692)

*bzzzt*

Wrong. Apple has opensourced the QuickTime server and apparently rewritten the APSL. Version1.1? http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990419/ca_apple_c_1.ht ml and http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/990419/ca_apple_c_2.ht ml are the press releases.
--------------------------------------- ----------------

Quicktime 4 (1)

jamesoutlaw (87295) | more than 14 years ago | (#1926693)

Check out the
Apple Press Release Site [apple.com] for more information:

"Apple Releases QuickTime 4 Public Beta With Internet Streaming"

"Apple Introduces QuickTime Streaming Server Software-The First Open Server for Internet Streaming"

"Apple Updates Public Source License"
Check for New Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Sign up for Slashdot Newsletters
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...