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Getting the Girl

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the pink-boxes-not-needed dept.

Games 528

1up.com has a great article up entitled Getting The Girl. Zoe Flower discusses female gaming stereotypes, the role of women in gaming, and the mythical "girl formula" for gaming success. From the article: "Lara Croft continues to personify an ongoing culture clash over gender, sexuality, empowerment, and objectification. It was while standing in my first-ever ladies' room line at E3 2004 as I pondered the Playboy bunnies, the return of Leisure Suit Larry, and the slew of buxom virtual ladies headlining each booth that I questioned whether the industry had evolved at all."

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Target Audience (5, Insightful)

eln (21727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324391)

The biggest market for video games are males aged 12-25. Big breasted women helps sell games to this demographic. That is all.

Re:Target Audience (3, Insightful)

Rei (128717) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324437)

That doesn't mean that you should only target your largest audience. Women are still a huge market, even if they're not as large as men, just because the gaming industry is so huge.

Re:Target Audience (1)

fshalor (133678) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324565)

"...largest...huge...large...huge..."

size matters I guess?

Some of my best friend/players on line are females.

Nothing cuter than a girl playing a game seriously. :)

Re:Target Audience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324680)

I wouldn't call that cute. I think the word I would use is "sad".

Now if you'd said, "there's nothing cuter than a girl shamelessly walking along the dusty streets barefoot," I would be totally in agreement.

Re:Target Audience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324660)

Some women I know like to wear boxers to sleep in. Does that mean boxers, who's target audience is men, should also target women?
I'm not agreeing that the gaming industry should not target women, just there is too many flaws in your theory.

Re:Target Audience (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324882)

Interesting point. But I have to ask -- am I the only one here who thinks that girls in boxers = pretty damn sexy?

Re:Target Audience (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324833)

That doesn't mean that you should only target your largest audience. Women are still a huge market

The question is, do the big breasted women alienate female gamers to the point where the female sales lost outweigh the male sales gained?

Given the marketing budgets of the average game, I'd be inclined to think that they've done their research and found that it really doesn't alienate them that much.

Of course, this will be dependent upon the fact that they'll be considering existing female gamers, and not considering how many are put off from gaming altogether by this attitude.

Re:Target Audience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324852)

And they do. Not every game has Big Breasted Women in it.

Re:Target Audience (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324443)

Big breasted women are used to push everything from cars to toothpaste in the US. is their use to peddle cheap video games a surprise to anyone?

Re:Target Audience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324488)

i'm an ass man, and i beg to differ.

YOU FAG (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324566)

Re:Target Audience (2, Insightful)

JayDoggy (200317) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324539)

Nit picking: Your numbers are close, but off a bit. For Teen to Mature rated games, your target market is males 17-early 30s.

Newer market research is proving that as the gaming core is aging, the late 20s are a valuable portion of this market.

-Game developer doing an M-rated game

Moot point (1)

Marvelicious (752980) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324757)

Fine, early 20's late 20's... I'm 29 and I still like tits! As long as the market they sell to is predominately male, hot women help sell it.

Re:Target Audience (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324587)

And let's not forget about all of those big hunky male characters in video games like:

The Doom Guy
Serious Sam
Duke Nukem ...

I've never heard another male video gamer complain `Duke's arms are too muscular!` or `Look at those pecs, they're unnatural!`.

They're charactures. It's like complaining that cartoon characters don't look like real people.

Re:Target Audience (2, Insightful)

FunkSoulBrother (140893) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324756)

And let's not forget about all of those big hunky male characters in video games like:

The Doom Guy
Serious Sam
Duke Nukem ...

I've never heard another male video gamer complain `Duke's arms are too muscular!` or `Look at those pecs, they're unnatural!`.

They're charactures. It's like complaining that cartoon characters don't look like real people.


Well, actually, they are caricatures of what a man's fantasy man would look/act like. So they are still marketing toward male fantasy there. I don't know that anything is really wrong targeting men, but those are poor counterexamples.

Re:Target Audience (5, Insightful)

Psmylie (169236) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324846)

If that's true, then isn't having slender-waisted, large breasted women characters also marketing towards a femal fantasy?
Hmmm...

Re:Target Audience (2, Insightful)

smoothee (848660) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324727)

http://gettiffany.com/ [gettiffany.com] has a very simmilar theme and has much the same demographic EXCEPT there is a huge subculture of WOMEN. This makes up about 30-40% of the people on this game. They say it somehow makes them feel empowered to be part of a "man's world."

Re:Target Audience (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324791)

Shows what you know about the market. There are just as many women games as guys. However women don't play the same types of games, and for some reason the major studios spend the majority of their time making games targetted towards guys.

A Little Older (3, Insightful)

lbmouse (473316) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324918)

Everywhere I've read [cnn.com] , the average age of video game buyers is 36.

Zoe Flower? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324402)

Shouldn't you be on tour with Phish or the Dead or something? I'm Zoe Flower, and I Empower.

Re:Zoe Flower? (3, Funny)

stupidfoo (836212) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324514)

Zoe Flower sounds more like a porn name, to me at least.

DOA series (1)

UNCfan4life (842992) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324429)

Don't forget the DOA series. That volleyball game was purely eye candy for thirteen year olds. And Rumble Roses looks to be about the same, though I've never seen more than an ad for it.

buxom virtual ladies (5, Funny)

drgonzo59 (747139) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324439)

If having a slew of "buxom virtual ladies" is wrong then I don't want to be right.

Re:buxom virtual ladies (1)

Penguinisto (415985) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324719)

Here you go! [curiouslabs.com]
(Oh, wait... you wanted 'em in a game...)
/P

siihp (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324456)

siihp !!!

I hate everything today (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324461)

And this article just makes it worse. I'm off to have a wank to pornographic illustrations of Lara Croft, and be really fucking bitter about it.

boobies==bad?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324464)

**purplexed**

What about the studly men!? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324475)

Sometimes women will say to me "Look at those scantily clad women with their tits hanging out on the box! That's sexist!"

To which I have to say "Do you see any short bald dudes with a big pot belly on any of these boxes either? No, it's all he-man looking dudes busting at the seams with muscles".

These games aren't any different than music videos or movies. Do you see any ugly people in music videos or movies aimed at 18-25 audience? Of course not. No one attacks the music industry for using half-naked chicks and musclemen with abs-o-steele to get teenagers to watch their videos...

Re:What about the studly men!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324788)

... and how many women do you know who actually think piles-of-muscles is attractive? That's aiming at the men too. :)

(Yes, I'm calling you latent. Deal.)

Re:What about the studly men!? (1, Redundant)

FunkSoulBrother (140893) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324804)

No one attacks the music industry for using half-naked chicks and musclemen with abs-o-steele to get teenagers to watch their videos...


I beg to differ.

Re:What about the studly men!? (2, Insightful)

Brandybuck (704397) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324842)

No, it's all he-man looking dudes busting at the seams with muscles

So you're saying it's okay to objectify women if we also objectify men?

Re:What about the studly men!? (1)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324903)

Sometimes women will say to me "Look at those scantily clad women with their tits hanging out on the box! That's sexist!" -- To which I have to say "Do you see any short bald dudes with a big pot belly on any of these boxes either? No, it's all he-man looking dudes busting at the seams with muscles". -- These games aren't any different than music videos or movies. Do you see any ugly people in music videos or movies aimed at 18-25 audience? Of course not. No one attacks the music industry for using half-naked chicks and musclemen with abs-o-steele to get teenagers to watch their videos...

Exactly right. I was looking in the Health & Beauty (the combination is actually rather ironic and people regularly ruin their health to maintain some ideal of beauty) and what do you see headlining the featured auctions? Peni pills, pumps, b00b enhancement, etc.

Honestly, when I saw the recent pictures of Anna Nicole Smith, I thought she looked rather worse for wear (see what the beautician does to the girl in Shaolin Soccer, ecch!)

<curmudgeon mode>why, back in my day i couldn't get enough of a girl with well defined pixels!</curmudgeon mode>

I hardly watch TV anymore and find music videos very trying. There are some advantages to getting older. It's quite remarkable outside pop culture how good some ladies look who aren't over done in any way, especially artificially. Those who do, attract the stares a freak would. Best be happy with yourself and your friends as you/they are. Games, eh, I don't buy them one looks anyway. I've been ripped off enough on sharp cover art and shoddy game play.

Well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324478)

If the current depiction of women seems to sell games well enough and appeal to the main market, why the hell would the game makers want to change it?

I mean, while big breasted scantily-clad women might not inspire me to buy a game, they certainly add to the appeal.

Department... (4, Funny)

dylan_- (1661) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324485)

from the pink-boxes-not-needed dept.
Hmm...so, either:

1: "Box" isn't used as a slang term in the USA

or

2: Slashdot is even geekier than I thought...or perhaps less geeky...I'm not sure now...

Re:Department... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324526)

It is used somewhat, but it's not an especially common one.

Re:Department... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324569)

Solly, cholly. Slashdot editors have their heads so far up their asses they know nothing outside of games, windows, and that 386 running linux in the corner.

Dear Slashdot (1)

Letter (634816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324632)

Dear Slashdot,

It's obvious: CmdrTaco needs only black boxes.

Letter

Re:Department... (1)

caino59 (313096) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324675)

dude, we're all looking at apple's new white box.

get with the program!

Re:Department... (1)

Enigma_Man (756516) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324692)

Yeah, I'm a little confused about that myself. I live in the US, and that means what I think you think it means to me also... We must both have missed the class on this one.

-Jesse

Re:Department... (2, Insightful)

PedanticSpellingTrol (746300) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324936)

They mean the boxes that "games for girls" come in don't have to be pink. And/or that "games for girls" is an inherently stupid concept.

Re:Department... (1)

Loco3KGT (141999) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324951)

1: "Box" isn't used as a slang term in the USA

No no "box" is still a slang term in the U.S. Originally people used to say "Come on man, don't be a square." But that was back in the day of 2d sprites. In this modern three dimensional non-curved surfaces world of Quake 2 we've moved up to saying "Don't be a box, man."

Oh wait, that box.

From the "pink-boxes-not-needed dept"? (1)

damnnicks (114314) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324495)

But the article is about gamer girls and... Oh, you mean computer boxes!

Heh.

objectification? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324520)

Why is focusing on a woman's body objectification? And not focusing on her mind or her personality? Clearly I don't look at women's bodies as "objects" but as "women's bodies". Oh well. I just treat that as one of those words like "empowerment" that doesn't really mean anything except to indicate how much self-censorship you have to impose around the person who said it.

For the record I don't like Lara Croft or booth babes or fake tits, but I'm not ashamed to find a woman attractive based on her looks alone.

How quaint (2, Funny)

krog (25663) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324527)

A girl who calls herself "Zoe Flower" is going to lecture us on feminism in video gaming.

I'll go back to playing nethack now.

Re:How quaint (5, Informative)

Staos (700036) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324612)

That's her real name. Her parents were hippies.

I'm being completely serious here. She used to write a collumn for OPM, and she wrote about her name once.

Re:How quaint (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324766)

She sounds cute. I want to objectify her woman's body. Post pics please! Kthx bye!

Zoe's website (3, Informative)

khasim (1285) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324823)

Re:Zoe's website (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324927)

Better yet www.zoeflower.com [zoeflower.com] . Nice pics [zoeflower.com] of the little hottie ;-).

Sheesh (4, Insightful)

stratjakt (596332) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324533)

Give the feminazi shit a rest for awhile.

If Lara Croft was a fat bull-dyke noone would buy or play the game.

BTW, before you start crying "sexism", you might want to note that male characters are invariably the 6'4 rugged Dirty-Harry type.

I've never seen an FPS where you play a myopic, balding, fat kernel hacker.

Half Life was as non-stereotype a lead character as I've seen, and that's only because Gordon wears glasses.

Re:Sheesh (4, Informative)

cgranade (702534) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324594)

RTFA. This article challenges the perception that women are the only ones stereotyped against, as well as that the portrayal of women in games must be inherently anti-feminist. Playboy: Mansion's lead designer is a woman. Moreover, she is pregnant with twins.

Re:Sheesh (1)

CaptainCheese (724779) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324962)

Being pregnant, female or a pornographer does not necessarily make one a feminist.

Re:Sheesh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324797)

I've never seen an FPS where you play a myopic, balding, fat kernel hacker.

Alan Cox is back in Revenge of the Tux Part Deux!

Yes, now you can transverse the halls of Microsoft with your favorite weapons... toss a handgrenade into the board room. Set fire to Paul Allen's Porsche... Rig the Gate's home for demolition! And enjoy the change of scenary as you, as Alan Cox, make your way to the great state of Utah for sniping action at the SCO office! Lie in wait for Darl McBride as he skulks from the building... Pick off lawyers at will! Special bonus editions of the game unlock the Linus character, which is sure to be a hoot, as his special abilities are sushi breath of death, and business cards of doom!
Following the themes of various first person shooters, such as Duke Nuke'em 3D, Linus and Alan will both shout funny phrases such as, "Crack Smoker" and "Take that one to the loo, Darl!" Game goes on sale Christmas 2005, pre-order from Id Software today!

Re:Sheesh (1)

LeiGong (621856) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324885)

I've never seen an FPS where you play a myopic, balding, fat kernel hacker.

close... what about these two? [cdaccess.com]

Getting the what? (3, Funny)

iamchaos (572797) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324542)

Oh, Girl... Something we know nothing about. :)

Most "cool" girls are lesbians (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324549)

Women who are into video games, anime, punk music and such are almost always lesbians.

Re:Most "cool" girls are lesbians (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324820)

I've noticed that. But it's not too bad, I have the uncanny ability to be able to seduce lesbians, despite being a man.

I put it down to the long hair and the sensitive touch. It's always nice to hear "I normally go for girls, but you're an exception .." again.

Just questioning? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324563)

There's nothing to question, its an obvious no.

Please... (3, Insightful)

Telastyn (206146) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324586)

Just because there's pornos doesn't mean someone else can't release chick flicks. Similarly, just because Leisure Suit Larry games exist doesn't mean female preferred games like the Sims series haven't been released and done very well.

Hopefully some publishers/designers will realise that they're excluding potential customers with such tactics like those who now release for Macs as well. But realistically, there will always be a probably large section of the industry [just like the movie industry] which will focus on their core target audience: horny, horny young men.

Laura Croft wasn't about gender clash (1)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324613)

Laura Croft was about giving pubescent boys something to fantasize about.

Re:Laura Croft wasn't about gender clash (1)

Tackhead (54550) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324732)

> Lara Croft wasn't about gender clash. Lara Croft was about giving pubescent boys something to fantasize about.

Right.

And now that we've hit puberty, we've outgrown Lara. Alyx is so much more teh hawt.

In the meantime, anyone got pics of Zoe?

Funny... (1)

NardofDoom (821951) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324614)

No posts about video game girls with big boobs because all the slashdotters are drooling over new Mac hardware.

And, no, I'm not new here.

Re:Funny... (1)

Staos (700036) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324669)

Your UID begs to differ...

That's right. I'm New Here. (1)

New Here (701369) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324695)

That's right. I'm New Here.

No one cares. (-1, Troll)

RLiegh (247921) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324618)

Why don't you girls go start your own industry somewhere else, make it about cooking or whatever it is that you ladies like...

I bet "girl games" would have girls on them too (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324620)

If you go to the magazine section and see all the silly men's magazines, they have pretty girls on them (occasionally men).

When you look at the women's trashy magazines, they have pretty girls on them (occasionally men). You know, the ones that tell you how to make your butt smaller, charge your cell phone, run a fortune 500 company, and get that cute guy, all before lunch?

Oh heavens... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324639)

I can see it now... We should be up in arms about it and let's pass some legislation banning the game manufacturers from using scantily clad women... *boo whoo* Women are so oppressed and exploited... Can't they find something else to cry about? How about pull some crap statistics out about how men make more than you do although men work regularly more hours than you do and work in more dangerous environments and that you CHOOSE to work in environments that give you flexibility for less hours and as result, less pay.

Re:Oh heavens... (1, Funny)

shawnywany (664241) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324768)

Sweetheart, take a sociology course. Even a basic one. There are structural boundaries for women in the workplace that often limit them to the 'traditional' feminine jobs--nursing, schoolteaching, etc. Glass escalators put men who would like to teach straight into administration; apparently women are not leaders. Glass walls stop women from moving out of customer service jobs, because apparently women have an innate caring side to them. Glass ceilings, of course, do not permit women to enter high management jobs, whereas men are injected into them daily. If it weren't for people like you, what with your arrogant bitching about how women choose to be exploited, feminism wouldn't exist. If there was complete gender equality, you'd be bitching about how blacks choose to be exploited because they choose to live in drug-infested urban areas.

Re:Oh heavens... (1)

g0bshiTe (596213) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324956)

She who lives in "GLASS HOUSES" should cast no stones.

Nope (1)

radicalskeptic (644346) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324647)

It was while standing in my first-ever ladies' room line at E3 2004 as I pondered the Playboy bunnies, the return of Leisure Suit Larry, and the slew of buxom virtual ladies headlining each booth that I questioned whether the industry had evolved at all.

As a devout Dead or Alive: Ultimate [tecmogames.com] player, I can confidently say that...

No, no it hasn't. [gamespot.com]

Re:Nope (1)

Saint Stephen (19450) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324712)

I call that the Chicks fighting game. I love it.

Getting The Woman Gamer (2, Insightful)

GweiLeong (846704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324657)

You want the female gamer? Fine! Stop shoving corporate sellout Barbie lookalike clans like the FragDolls down their throat and give some real all-girl clans some press once in awhile. You know, the clans where the girls don't look like Playboy Bunnies.

Re:Clans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324857)

Gee, your post made me feel old ( 28 ).

I don't have the slightest idea what FragDolls are, and have only a vague notion that Clans must be teams in online games ( the kind that make you shell out a monthly fee and which I will therefore never play ).

Can't you make your own 'Clans' as long as you don't make white sheets the uniform?

I am disappointed! (1)

Gherald (682277) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324658)

I though it would be an actual game about Getting the Girl [newsandentertainment.com]

No mention of HL2? (5, Insightful)

neolith (110650) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324661)

I thought Alyx was a pretty well realized female character. Tough, feminine, sexy without being a slutty, smart as hell, and she even possessed a figure without Laura-Croftian... embellishments. I think it says positive things that the top game of the year has a female character that can stand up with the men in the game, and possibly has a future in her own game. I'd *love* to see an Alyx and DOG game, or just Alyx for that matter.

Sure, you can find stereotypes in trashy games like BloodRayne and various fighters, but there are plenty of male stereotypes to be found over there as well.

of course not (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324800)

that would disprove her point.

Why should it evolve? (4, Insightful)

raehl (609729) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324663)

What makes Ms. Flower's opinion about what characters in video games should look like, "more" valid than anyone else's?

Nothing. Unfortunately, there are many more video game customers who would like their female characters to have cartoonishly large breasts than there are video game customers who would like their female characters to have folds and beards.

The difference is that guys don't get their panties in a bunch because all of the male video game characters have cartoonishly large muscles.

Ms. Flower is trying to manufacture a double standard where none exists - male and female characters are treated the same; they're made to look perfect.

As for video game themes, Ms. Flower is simply outvoted. Our culture uses sex to sell. We sell stuff using attractive people, choosing gender based on audience. Complaining that video game conferences have booth babes is like complaining that there are no fat guys in soap operas.

I for one welcome our fat bearded overlordesses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324950)

Unfortunately, there are many more video game customers who would like their female characters to have cartoonishly large breasts than there are video game customers who would like their female characters to have folds and beards.

Keep the faith, brother! Until then we'll survive on furry pr0n of the more deviant variety.

So the news is.... (1)

Kylere (846597) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324668)

Pretty People sell better than Ugly ones!

Makes sense we have a Chippendale Dancers, not Chubendales. I hate it when the logical and factual is presented as new thought.

pink-boxes-not-needed department? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324674)

Is that the same as I'm-a-flaming-homosexual department?

Equal Opportunity (2, Insightful)

krgallagher (743575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324703)

I don't get it. Laura Croft is a stereo type and Duke Nukem isn't? C'mon people, almost all the male characters in games are steroid pumped jocks. What's worse most of them are blond haired blue eyed Aryan types. Unless you are playing an RPG and playing a barbarian or a dwarf you are playing a buffed character. If you are playing barbarian or dwarf the female is as un-buff as the male. Sounds like equal opportunity to me.

Duke Nukem! (1)

gnuman99 (746007) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324707)

Just wait until Duke Nukem Forever for some more female/male steriotypes.

Why? (1)

IGnatius T Foobar (4328) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324708)

Who needs a girlfriend when you can have a $499 iMac? Come on people, let's start to see some proper geek priorities!!

(Disclaimer: comment is firmly tongue-in-cheek. Turn the damn computer off and go outside once in a while.)

frag me, baby (1)

revxul (463513) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324721)

The female character in the webcomic Ctrl-Alt-Del [link: ctrlaltdel-online.com [ctrlaltdel-online.com] ] is any male gamer's dream.

Nintendo... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324724)

One thing that I'm really liking about Nintendo is that they seem adamant about acquiring new markets for their products... the DS in particular - many women have taken to the device, loving games like Feel The Magic and the Mario 64 DS minigames... The new method of input is a lot easier for newbie gamers to grasp than, say, an Xbox controller with god knows how many different buttons on it. Instead of relying on the tried and true 12-25 male market, I'm really glad Nintendo has been wanting to branch out more.

Most people seem to think that just because girls don't want to play these violent FPSes and GTA clones that are rampant at the moment, they will never be interested in games. But I know quite a few girls who are into games, including my girlfriend... but the kind of games they play - The Sims, (thing) Tycoon, puzzlers, and many Japanese RPGs, is pretty different from what's currently popular with your typical casual male gamer.

I think the best way to get more girl gamers is to have more girls producing games... Feel The Magic is a hit with the ladies, and it was headed up by 2 women. Plus, The Greatest Game Series Ever [phantasystar.com] was headed up by a woman :)

Great, All Fem Gamers are HOT CHICKS! (1)

Musenik (789539) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324739)

After scanning the article and reading the summation, it looks like the greatest majority of women gamers have been completely ignored. Look again, Ms. Flower, look at the casual market and find that women over thirty five represent nearly half of ALL computer gamers. It's not like there's a lack of positive women role models presented in games [thewitchsyarn.com] . They're just not easy to find, because the gaming industry is still sucking up to hard-core players. (for which I'm actually half grateful, because I want more RPGs) Fortunately, mobile games and casual games are just starting to turn big heads like EA, MS, Sony, and Nintendo.

Lora Croft was not created for girls (1)

geekoid (135745) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324746)

it was created for 13 year old boys.

Also, how can you say there is a line at the womens room for the first time, and in the same breath wonder if the industry has/is changing.
Clearly, you observations dictate that it is changing.

Please remember the men respond to visual stimuli much stronger then women, so the 'sexy' woment will be selling products to men in nearly all industries. Whether its a women presenting a new automobile, or a huge breasted digital creation.

Any toy seller will tell you that different toys will appeal to different genders. Believe me, Mattell would love to sell barbie to boys.

Re:Lora Croft was not created for girls (1)

Anonymous Cowpat (788193) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324872)

Also, how can you say there is a line at the womens room for the first time, and in the same breath wonder if the industry has/is changing. Clearly, you observations dictate that it is changing.
Clearly there were less cubicles in the ladies at E3 2004 than E3 2003, thus increasing the queue size and leading you to BELIEVE that the industry is changing. Or they were marketing more soft drinks to the women in 2004. Maybe it's both, if *I* were tryign to show people that the industry was changing that's what I'd do!

Pass me my hat would you? It's the shiny one.

Prehistory (1)

ElDuque (267493) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324764)


What about Rosella? (Kings Quest IV anyone)

First female videogame main character?

The article also doesn't mention Roberta Williams who I seem to remember being pretty instrumental down at Sierra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huns (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324787)

LOL I AM TEH MODIFY W1K1P3DIA ENTRY FOR TEH HUNS... LOL OMG CHINKS R G3HY.

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Screw the Girl Gamers! (1)

robocrop (830352) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324796)

Thank God I'm not the only person who's sick of this bullshit. It is so tiring to constantly hear how it is of the utmost importance that we change everything to try to include people who don't want to be included.

If a bunch of girls are really pissed that there are no games for them to play, they'll get together and make a game. If they do, good for them. Otherwise get off our fucking case. Just because it doesn't cater to your every whim doesn't mean it's sexist.

True (1)

alienfluid (677872) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324811)

This is definitely true - I was pretty aghast looking at some of the advertisements on TV about the new games coming out - "Rose Rumble" and "Grand Theft Auto - San Andreas" being some of the them. The image of women in games has been reduced to that of a "whore" who is expendable and there only for pleasure. Very distrubing and unfortunate.

Please help me infect my machine at 139.147.8.100
I need to test virus/worm scanners on it!!

Lack of Female Developers/designers? (1)

kevinx (790831) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324817)

The video game development landscape is populated by mostly men. Until more females become interested in creating the content you won't see females being portrayed the way "females" want.
On another note, there isn't any difference between this and other media outlets. TV/movies and music videos work the same way. Even the female leads in these projects know how to sell a product.
I'm going to even throw in a reference to porn here. I was watching a thing on TV where they talked how they used to use average men in videos because they felt they would identify. But then they realised that "sexy" men sold more. People want to be transported into the fantasy.
Is the game industry immature? Or is it just being realistic?

What a disappointment! (3, Funny)

jeffmeden (135043) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324837)

After reading the title i thought the article would actually be useful to us (the stereotypical /. reader). Turns out its about selling video games to girls, laaaaaame.

Forget appearances (1)

shawnywany (664241) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324845)

It makes you wonder what would happen if there were a game that does not base its characters on appearance, but rather on personality and actul character. (Oh wait, that's the Sims, and that's called a chick game too.) What would you guys say about Metroid Prime? I'm not a game geek by any means--but I didn't Samus Aran was female. What does that say about traditional female game characters? I know it genuinely confused my fellow game-illiterate friends and me.

All stereotypes are negative (1)

caffiend666 (598633) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324847)

All stereotypes are negative. Male/Female Adult/Child White/Black. This reviewer is complaining more about the mis-interpretation of women in liesure suit larry. However, she does not chose to object to the image of a letcherous man as the main character.

Name one positive stereotype in games? The humans in Warcraft are xenophobes on a witch hunt. Samurai in fighting games are mad blood thursty freaks. Even mushrooms are misinterpreted and are misleading in Mario. The message is "Here kids, eat a mushroom, do cool things...."

Non-stereo typical themes in culture do not do well. Not only are they hard to do, they lack interesting alliteration and feeling.

Yet another boring "girl gamer" article... (2)

Caiwyn (120510) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324892)

Oh, God, yet another ponderous article on "Women In Video Games." Doesn't anyone find the use of words like "empowering" and "disenfranchises" the least bit ironic? Doesn't this kind of overanalysis take the fun out of video games? And doesn't ascribing this sort of importance to them lend credence to the arguments of those want to restrict/ban certain titles?

What's more, the article is embarassing to read. This is little more than a female journalist injecting gender politics into everything she sees. It reeks of self-importance and psych 101. I don't disagree with many of the statements and conclusions throughout the article, but they are largely redundant and do not bear repeating.

The only thing that needs to be stated here is that if/when females constitute enough of a demographic for the industry to address, they will help determine the industry's direction when it comes to content and subject matter. Sometimes, they already do. This isn't rocket science.

san andreas (1)

chris_morgan47 (810629) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324896)

all i know is i'm glad they added blonde hookers with pigtails and plaid skirts.

The real key (1)

Omnicrola (831720) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324905)

As a man, I can't say this with any true degree of certainty, but if you want to know what truely brings women into the gaming scene, it's not neccessarily the games so much as the people playing them.

All the girls I know that play games (some of them geeks, some not) like to play any game that involves social interaction. Either with friends they know in RL, or on another continent. And if they can meet new people that they can then meet in RL, they're even more into it. Game design, plot, and story as always play a significant role. Being able to meet people and either Role Play with them, or just get to know them, ask how they and their friends are doing on a daily/weekly basis however, plays a much more central role for women than men.

More girls I know play MMOs or the yahoo table games than anything else.

Ask a silly question... (1)

pla (258480) | more than 9 years ago | (#11324948)

...the slew of buxom virtual ladies headlining each booth that I questioned whether the industry had evolved at all.

Well of course the industry has evolved!

Thanks to the adoption of video game ratings, the "M" rating has greatly increased the "strongly suggestive" content in games, while the "AO" rating has made publishers not worry about releasing outright porn in games.

If you don't call that an improvement, well, I don't know what you expect. You want your "weeners" tag to go along with "boobies"? Get enough females interested in gaming to make it marketable, and I guarantee you'll see equality in video game sexual content. You only see females "exploited" (though in this case, can you even call it exploitation when it doesn't involve any real women?) because the target market consists almost entirely of horny young men. Add horny young women as a target demographic, and software houses will jump at the chance to pander to them for a buck.

But then, that presupposes the entire title of this topic, doesn't it?

Getting the what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11324960)

Bit of an unlikely title for a /. article, no?
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