Beta

Slashdot: News for Nerds

×

Welcome to the Slashdot Beta site -- learn more here. Use the link in the footer or click here to return to the Classic version of Slashdot.

Thank you!

Before you choose to head back to the Classic look of the site, we'd appreciate it if you share your thoughts on the Beta; your feedback is what drives our ongoing development.

Beta is different and we value you taking the time to try it out. Please take a look at the changes we've made in Beta and  learn more about it. Thanks for reading, and for making the site better!

cancel ×

259 comments

Hmmm... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918117)

If Mesa works with 3Dfx on the Macintosh, some one (hopefully who has _used_ it) should tell them! Mesa is going to be used on Linux anyway, right?

Problems with MacOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918118)

The problems are mostly with the old MacOS. These go away with Mac OS X or PowerPC Linux.

What is Carmack going to say when the G4's hit the streets in a couple of months? Rumors have the AltiVec running multimedia 8x faster than the best PIII's, and at 1/5th the power consumption. People have seen Laptops with the Viao form factor with 500 MHz G4's in them....

Nice quote. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918119)

Also, I like this bit about "No openGL Voodoo support on the Mac..." It's called Mesa, John. It's been out for years. Sure, Apple doesn't yet have 3Dfx GL support (I have yet to figure out why) but the Mac does.
He said "Voodoo cards are not currently supported by the [Apple] OpenGL driver". That's a big issue, because he has had to work with driver authors to ensure that Q3:A would run properly on their implementations. Carmack has put alot of effort into getting 3D games running well on MacOS, so I don't think you should bash him because he doesn't have the time to make sure that every OpenGL implementation will work correctly. Maybe you should complain about the fact that Apple and 3Dfx don't fully support their platforms instead of knocking someone who is trying help them out.

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918120)

Carmack's article spends several pages ranting about the Mac OS, and it's lack of modern features when he KNOWS (and even states so) that these problems are going away (actually HAVE GONE AWAY) with the release of Mac OS X. It's a bunch of FUD that would confuse anyone not aware of the current state of development of the Mac OS.

His comments about the Mac OS only supporting Rage are wrong too - there are several sources of 3Dfx implementations for the Mac.

He also makes a lot of comments about Spec95 being a great benchmark. Flat out wrong. Spec95 is a worthless benchmark for gamers because is does nothing to address the system features important for running games.

You guys may think he is a God, but the fact is he does publish a lot of stuff that is NOT correct, or is highly misleading.

Regarding MacOSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918121)

Carmack a genius? Can this guy do anything other than castles and nazis? Geez, give me 10 years and millions of dollars and I'll eventually get it right too. Doesn't make me a genius. How about trying something new, id?

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918122)

I see no reason for X if you have a superior GUI already. I thought the only real reason people use X is for those who prefer using a GUI for some things rather than CLI. Even still, I don't even think that was what X was originally designed for.

You may end up missing a few things like... uhh. XGalaga and GIMP... but you will have photoshop (and I'm sure others will pop up as well) to do graphics on Mac OS X. There is no reason why the GIMP developers, or another team couldn't port GIMP to Mac OS X either, except for perhaps their pride.

There's pretty much equivalents or even superior equivalents to most apps made for X.

And if you for some reason like having different themes, there's (a) program(s), i believe, for Mac OS that makes everything appear like windows from other OSs among other things. I'm sure the program will be ported to Mac OS X with time. There was a nice Mac GUI site that focused on that stuff but the author shut it down recently.

Even still, Macs have LinuxPPC and YellowDog Linux on them. So if you can't get exactly everything you want, you just install both, or just one if you have no use for the other.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918123)

The developers of Mac OS X said they believed it would comply with POSIX standards but for some reason or another aren't getting it tested, at least not now anyway.

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918124)

His comments about the Mac OS only supporting Rage are wrong too - there are several sources of 3Dfx implementations for the Mac.

He never said Mac OS only supports Rage, YOU are the one spreading pro-mac propaganda. His statement that all the old macs are standard with a rage chip is not FUD, thats the only claim he made about macs and Rage.

Mac people are silly.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918125)

According to www.macosrumors.com (if I remember correctly), OS X will be able to run an x-windows server, and windowmanagers like KDE.

Simon.

Problems with MacOS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918126)

Actually, this is what Carmack said, if you would have bothered to read it:

"MacOS X nails all these problems, but thats still a ways away."

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918127)

> I see no reason for X if you have a superior GUI already.

Will the GUI in MacOS X allow running programs on remote network displays like X11? If not, then it's as bad as Windows for my needs :(

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918128)

But my question is how close to UNIX is MacOS X?

very close MacOS X has a *BSD (darwin) core

Does it support X11 and UNIX98?

if you download extra software it supports X11.
I'm not shure about UNIX98

How easy is it to port Linux/UNIX applications to it?

Shouldn't be too hard considering it has a *BSD layer.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918129)

It is going to suupport POSIX gust not be regestered as such,

Oh yea, and EVERYONE has a top-of-the-line G3? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918130)

And what one person (God as some people seem to have created him out to be) is Truth. the Absolute. What other organized benchmarks have tested mean nothing because this one God says something else. In fact, since he said it matches the equivalent PII for games, that must also mean the PII is equal to the G3 in everything else too! "All the tests and testimonies are lies unless they work in my favor! "

mac os x server question (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918131)

X meaning ten.
It is a NeXT unix based OS.

Linux Before Windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918132)

So you have an OpenGL accelerator on your Linux box then?

MacOS X close to UNIX? Sure! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918133)

Yeah, it's quite close, you can even kill the finder thingie and replace it with kde or some such. http://www.macosrumors.com/osx.html

It's old, but should be updated soon.

Glide being ported by the man.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918134)

I hear about Glide being ported to Linux/PPC -- this may need 'architecture hack' work I'd reckon.
I also hear about FreeBSD/i386 Glide binaries but nothing seem to come of either.....

Dear ID developers,

what about using mesa+GGI in a future game? This may be more portable than glide in the long run.. check out

http://www.ggi-project.org [ggi-project.org]

NeXT based? Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918135)

Why? What is the deal with Unix? It's nothing great. Its 30 years old. Why can't we let the past stay in the past, and move on. WinNT is based off Digital's VMS, Win95 is a big DOS application, and now MacOS has been downgraded to something 30 years old. I think the only people who have the right idea is Be for not building their operating system off of something thats 20-30 years old. Maybe that's why BeOS is 100x faster and more efficent than anything else. Linux is no where near ready for "primetime" no matter what you people say. If Be had more hardware support and more apps, it would be more than ready.

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918136)

I love Macs too, but that's no reason to go around bashing Carmack for pointing out a fundamental design flaw in the MacOS architecture. I'm sure that MacOS 8.6 adds some nice new features and fixes some problems, but adding something like memory protection requires a complete rewrite. That's what the point of MacOS X is, but it's not out.
It's still as difficult to develop apps under 8.6 as it has been in the past.

Troll! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918137)

Gotta love how you turn a comment about Mac OS into a flame about how "linux isn't ready for prime time".
Way to go.

Umm.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918138)

The last game to have castles and nazis was Wolf3d, quite a few years ago. What Carmack does IS genius. What you fail to realize is the id Software games, from Carmacks perspective, are just deathmatch games (this is for certain with Q3A, as we know) and vehicles to sell licenses to his 3D engine.

To tell genius, you compare work of the man to the other work out at the same time, and EVERY ONE of Carmack's engines, from the sprite-based Doom engine to the true 3d Quake and Quake2 engine has been LEAPS AND BOUNDS above anything out at the time of its release.

Why try something new when the formula works, anyhow? I loved Doom, Doom2, Quake, Quake2, and I'm sure Q3A won't disappoint. That's like saying "Hey Linus, kernels are nice and such, but why don't you try something new!" it just doesn't make sense.

Regarding MacOSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918139)

Did you want to compare it to Linux?

It may very well suffer on several accounts, as it is a product of a closed source development cycle, but then again it is a Unix. It's look and feel and UI will be much more mature and advanced than Linux's, but again tastes vary, so that may not matter. It has access to more hardware than Linux right now, though that may be changing soon with everyone jumping on the Linux bandwagon.


"closed source development cycle"?!! Have you been living in a cave?
there have been at least half a dozen articles on /. about the APSL, and the open sourcing of all of the important parts of OS X as darwin. Also most of the OSX stuff that allready exists is based on open source code from BSD. The only closed part is the GUI, which is IMHO the best UI ever (I'm an ex-NeXTer) but as you said tastes may vary.

Troll! erm..no (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918140)

Just because there's a negative comment about Linux doesn't make the message a troll. Contrary to popular belief, it seems, Linux is NOT ready for primetime, no matter what you might say.

Carmack's Opinion (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918141)

I think Carmack's opinion _is_ worthwhile in your case. He's looking at the system from a developer's point of view, so what matters to him is how well suited the platform is for quickly writing software. That's why he used to do all his development on NeXT -- not because he thought there was a market for games on NeXT, but because it was an ideal development platform. When Carmack says that he hopes that he will be able to move all his development over to MacOS X in the future, it means he thinks the platform will stand up well on it's technical merits, and it's usability for high-powered developers. (Whether Apple will deliver is yet to be seen, of course)

NeXT based? Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918142)

I hate to break this to you but BeOS is loosely based on UNIX. It's about the same deal as NeXTStep/OpenStep/MacOSX that is a UNIXish kernel with a non X GUI on top of it.

Umm.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918143)

The last game to have castles and nazis was Wolf3d, quite a few years ago.



Every id game since W3D has been a rehash of the same theme.



Why try something new when the formula works, anyhow?



Surely you don't really believe this?



That's like saying "Hey Linus, kernels are nice and such, but why don't you try something new!" it just doesn't make sense.



Alternately, you seem to be saying "Hell, everyone else is using Windows and they don't seem to mind it all that much. I guess we might as well stick to the formula. Gates is a genuis."

Troll? Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918144)

There's nothing wrong with commenting that Linux doesn't have all the features that it needs. It's a troll because in response to the comment "It is a NeXT unix based OS", you complained about MacOS being "downgraded" by adding unix like features, said that "Win95 is a big DOS application" (which is far from the truth), and that BeOS is "100x faster". That, my friend, is pure flamebait.


----
"I'm just a lowlife" --rk. :P

Regarding MacOSX (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918145)

Originality != genius



I can assure you that your definition of genius is not univerally accepted. I would suggest that originally is a fundamental component of genius.



Ask anyone in the industry their opinion of Carmack and you'll get the exact same response



a.) I seriously doubt everyone in the industry would concur on anything, and

b.) I can't say that I'd care. Millions of people buy Michael Bolton albums. Kenny G wins Grammys. That doesn't make either man a genius.



The guy is incredibly talented at optimizing code



...which makes him a relatively talented programmer, not a genius.

OpenGL (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918146)

Uh, they're using OpenGL, not glide specifically. Glide is just used by Mesa on 3DFX.

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918147)

...these problems are going away (actually HAVE GONE AWAY) with the release of Mac OS X

Mac OS X has not been released.

Marathon Engine & Bungie (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918148)

To tell genius, you compare work of the man to the other work out at the same time, and EVERY ONE of Carmack's engines,
from the sprite-based Doom engine to the true 3d Quake and Quake2 engine has been LEAPS AND BOUNDS above anything
out at the time of its release.

----

Ummm...you forgot Bungie.

I'm pretty sure that Pathways into Darkness was already out when Doom was released, and Doom's engine was no better than Pathway's engine (if not more primitive). Marathon was released within a few months (3, 6, 9??) of Doom, and was lightyears ahead.

I dusted off an old copy of Marathon of Christmas, and it's amazing what these guys did back in 1994 (1993?) without video acceleration. In addition, the physics model was spectacular. Doom was kinda fun, but seemed really primitive next to Marathon, both in plot and technology.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918149)

But there is a Windows version of GIMP, so a Macintosh version may well be developed.

Troll? Yes. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918150)

And if he knew anything about BeOS, he'd have known it is based off of a UNIX based OS (BSD, if my memory serves me correctly).

Linux Before Windows (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918151)

Why not? I have 2 linux boxen... one with a classic voodoo and one with a voodoo 2...

FeeDBaCK

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918152)

I know this. I was using X as a general term, rather than explaining every fine detail because then my point might get lost. And I was sure people would understand what I was saying anyway.

Are you crazy, man?!? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918153)

Are you nuts? You're saying that comparing the fastest hardware 3D on PCs to the bloody Rage Pro on Macs is FAIR? Geez...Where have you been, man? I've had my Voodoo2 for a while now, and it would kick the crap out of any Rage Pro piece of junk any day of the week, without even trying.

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918154)

I'm sure that MacOS 8.6 adds some nice new features and fixes some problems, but adding something like memory protection requires a complete rewrite. That's what the point of MacOS X is, but it's not out.

The point which almost everyone misses about memory protection for MacOS 8.x is that it would throw out backwards compatibility completely. Any non-trivial app is required to access low memory or walk (and, in some cases, change) data structures maintained by the system... window lists, file control blocks, and whatnot.

The main reason why there's no true protected memory in 8.x is that Adobe, Microsoft and other large developers would scream - and users, too. Right now many games and apps from 1984/85 still run... if 8.6 came out with protected memory nothing, not a single released app would run.

Witness how everybody dug in their heels when Apple announced a migration to Yellow Box... so they were forced to introduce Carbon, which finally gets rid of the stuff that accesses system data... but then it sits on top of a new OS...

With some experience you can do sufficiently defensive programming so that the lack of protection doesn't slow down development too much. I crash about once a day while developing my stuff, but 3-4 times while browsing the Web (either Netscrape or Exploder crash...). I can understand that Carmack's not willing to slow down his stuff by checking nil pointers and such, but non-game developers shouldn't heed his comments too much.

NeXT based? Why? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918155)

Man we gotta get off this transistor thing. What dated technology.

The deal with UNIX is that in 30 years, people have figured out most of the stuff that you can screw up, and they have been fixed. The deal with Linux is that it is a new OS that rebuilt UNIX based on the design knowledge of 30 years, but without inheriting the code base, with all of its ugly hacks to fix those problems discoverd in 30 years.

Besides, once you strip away the pretty pictures, every OS has to do basically the same things. Why not base your system on proven technology?

Oh Yeah?!!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918156)

Mac people are silly.

Linux people are commies.

Can't we all just get along?

Frankly, I don't know what everyone is complaining about - when it comes to certain things, like audio/multimedia development, the MacOS *still* can't be beat.

The Mac is great for doing things *OTHER* than coding. I use the OS that enables me to write music (in my case) intuitively and without even thinking about the fact that I'm using a computer. Try *that* with Windows or your bloated open source wares.

*CAUTION*
Now, call me a Mac-Nazi, but I honestly don't get this whole anti-Apple thing. As soon as anyone makes a comment in support of them (it seems), someone has to go and say its "pro-mac propaganda." You big bullies... all of you.

I'm thrilled that id is releasing Quake3 for Mac... We've put up with this second-hand shit for too long. And as far as Carmack is concerned, more power to him. He's just trying to help, I suppose.

What do you find more valuable: an OS in and of itself, or the PRODUCT which arises from it? You have to admit, people are still doing great things with the supposedly inferior Mac.

-ad

You couldn't be more wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918157)

Pathways into Darkness's engine is basically on level of Wolfenstein 3D. Doom's technology was way ahead of that.
Marathon came out well after Doom did, and it's technology is virtually identical to Doom's. Although I don't know it's exact release date, keep in mind that Marathon II came out _after_ Quake did -- that's 2.5 years after the original Doom came out, and 1.5 years after Doom II!
Calling Doom primitive compared to Marathon is completely absurd.

much ado about linux... SMP (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918158)

If nothing else, someone should be able to hack mesa so that it runs in a different thread than the application, with stub methods to send commands into a queue. I don't know how fast this would be (probably a big lose on UP systems, but maybe a reasonable gain on SMP). Might not be as big a deal for hardware rendering anyway...

So, who is your God? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918159)

Carmack with Spec95?
or
Jobs with ByteMarks?

I've read a Mac person's take on the ByteMarks, and he didn't seem to think too highly of them.
He notices that the 603, 604, and G3 gave close results. He then tried the tests again with different memory configs and notices that the nubers didn't really change. He concluded that bytemarks are so small that they can live in the L1 cache.

SMP and Q3:A (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918160)

Carmack apparently played around with having multiple processor support in Quake 3: Arena, but figured it didn't offer enough of an advantage. If you check his .plan file he has a pretty detailed description of what the issues are. You can dig it up on finger.planetquake.com if you're interested.

Glide being ported by the man.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918161)

I thought the GGI project was using the venerable OpenGL (through Mesa) for their 3D needs. Id has always supported OpenGL so a Quake-GGI wouldn't be a big deal.

You couldn't be more wrong. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918162)

Pathways into Darkness's engine is basically on level of Wolfenstein 3D. Doom's technology was way ahead of that
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Harly.. PAthways was more of a D&D type thing. The monsters were intelligent and real bastards. You could go back and forth between levels pluss set the screen res to anything, random monsters, many special items (like a crystal that would freeze all monster on the screen) Trust me Pathways was very far ahead of anything. It's STILL a GREAT game now, not to mention bloody hard... PLus it ran perfectly on a machine as cruddy as an LCII (ie: 16Mhz 68020). Wolf 3-D on the other hand required an 68040 25Mhz.

The MArahton engine was better then doom's engine by quite a ways as well. Having made maps for both, Marathon's engine was so sweet. I loved having leveld rooms, ie: in Marathon you can put rooms on top of each other and EVEN IN THE SAME REAL SPACE. This allowed for the creation of some preatty confusing maps :-). Also, the mar engine was much more polished. It's quite a pitty that at the time of it's release Mac hardware wasn't at all game freindly...

Mar II is a nice engine and comes with a really good map making tool. Although I don't like the textures and game play in the game Mar II. Also the engine isn't that much more impressive then Mar I. It's got a nice vertical orinetation though.

Pathways kicks so much ass!

Pinky

Yeah. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 15 years ago | (#1918163)

Just because an OS has good software, that doesn't make an OS good. Just because the Mac has alot of good music software, that doesn't make it a technically good OS! That's what Carmack was dicussing -- the technical merits of MacOS.
However, the previous poster came along and started bashing Carmack for pointing out several technical deficiencies of MacOS. I think it's safe to say that he/she was spreading pro-mac propaganda by launching a personal attack on Carmack (saying that be publishes alot of incorrect or misleading information -- that comment was _completely_ baseless).

Regarding MacOSX (1)

Bobort (289) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918262)

Is there any place one can find an unbiased review of OSX? I've yet to hear anything yet asides from Mac evangelists praising it to the hilt (which I don't trust) or anti-mac people saying that it's a piece of shit (ditto). Is such a thing even possible?

Regarding MacOSX (1)

Bobort (289) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918263)

I fully trust Carmack's opinion, but he's looking at the system from the point of gaming, and that's not all I'm interested in. I'm mainly interested in how it sizes up as a Unix. I want to know its technical merits. I'm kind of interested in the GUI also, but GUI appreciation is such a subjective thing that I don't think reading about is a worthwhile expense of time. I'm especially uninterested in marketing, though :)

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

John Campbell (559) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918265)

> I see no reason for X if you have a superior GUI already.

Because X isn't a GUI. fvwm2 is a GUI. Enlightenment is a GUI. Windowmaker is a GUI. X is a graphics transport protocol. There's no reason the Mac GUI couldn't make use of X, keep all of its famed "ease of use", and be network-transparent, too.

And that last is the real reason to have X. We're living in a networked world, and it's only going to become more so. In that world, the ability to sit in front of one machine and work with another as if it was right there is going to be increasingly valuable. Unix, between the power and easy remote use of its command shell and the network-transparency of X, has had this ability for many years. MacOS and Windows don't. As a result, MacOS and Windows are stuck in client-server or host-terminal relationships, rather than the much more powerful "one network, one computer" model Unix gets closer to with every increase in network bandwidth.

Group size (1)

Chris Johnson (580) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918266)

Do you seriously think linux has a larger userbase than Macs have?
I will say this, though- it's likely that linux has a user base with significantly more Quake-running capacity, because that level of CPU power is really pretty significant, and the Mac userbase has a substantial weighting towards housewives, Joe Sixpack et all who don't neccessarily have a machine that's recent.
I think linux users are to some extent more likely than average Mac users to have a machine recent enough to run Quake. This isn't at all the same thing as claiming the group (in general) is a bigger group.
How would you like it if something came out for Linux first and then NT, and all the comments were 'Of course, it's that way because Linux is insignificant, so they get the bugs out with the small group and then move on to the real group, NT'?
Sorry, it's just irritating. This is EXACTLY the same attitude that has most of the world considering Linux too geeky and insignificant to matter. All things matter, and Macs are not as small a group as you think (just as, in talking to Mac folks, I would say that Linux was not as small a group as they thought). OK?

Darwin and X11 (1)

TedC (967) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918274)

No X and that is worse.

Porting XFree86 and KDE to Darwin would make a nice project.

TedC

Fast. (1)

TheGreek (2403) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918278)

It just seems like yesterday that they released the original Quake and I was hooked. Now Quake 3 is coming along nicely.

How time flies. Good work, Carmack, et al!

The hell of it is... (1)

Millennium (2451) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918279)

I don't think we'll be seeing LinuxPPC binaries any time soon. The reason: Glide hasn't been ported to LinuxPPC yet, so even though we have Mesa we don't have any hardware 3D acceleration.

What ever happened to the Glide port anyway? I keep hearing about one in the works, but no information on the status.

Hmmm... (2)

Millennium (2451) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918280)

Well, I still see a lot of anti-Mac FUD here, but at least he's toning down a bit. I'd be quite surprised, however, if he actually trook the time to properly optimize the Mac version of Quake3. Oh, and he seems to have been testing a Voodoo2 (or Voodoo3 even?) on the PC vs. a Rage Pro on a beige G3; you call that fair? Also, I like this bit about "No openGL Voodoo support on the Mac..." It's called Mesa, John. It's been out for years. Sure, Apple doesn't yet have 3Dfx GL support (I have yet to figure out why) but the Mac does.

But hey, he's improving, at least. His anti-Mac rants aren't totally inaccurate anymore. And hell, he's giving Q3Test to Mac users first.

Mmmmmm Macintosh. (1)

acb (2797) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918281)

Then I could have Quake twice before all of the Windows people. :)

...assuming that they make a Linux/PPC binary.
Unfortunately, such binaries tend to be a bit thin on the ground.

Hmmm... (1)

Utter (4264) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918283)

Actually, Carmack is not spreading FUD and he never has. It's just that some Mac Evangelists can't take critizism.

And if the Mesa GL is the same as on Linux, I wish you luck in getting the same performance as 3dfx GL.

Rock on (1)

Utter (4264) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918284)

Yes, the teasing of the Windows lusers has begun.
I love it. Yes! Yes! Some days are better than others.

OK, maybe I'll invite them for a quick look at my superior Linux system running Q3 Test.

Hmmm... (1)

Utter (4264) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918285)

Don't think so. For Q2 they used the 3dfx minigl. As stated above, the Q3 demands more features so maybe they must use Mesa for Linux. Goosh, my PPro 200 will crawl.

Guess I have to buy a new one. ;-)
A machine with Mac OS X and Linux would be awesome, but that will be too expensive for me. A PII 450 is more what my budget allows me.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (2)

Utter (4264) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918286)

Those lucky bastards will get Q3T first. But then Carmack continues to say that Mac hardware is not as fast as Wintel. Then he says that he might consider MacOS X as his development machine. And last he says 'MacOS still suck'. And not a word about Linux, *sob*.

But my question is how close to UNIX is MacOS X? Does it support X11 and UNIX98? How easy is it to port Linux/UNIX applications to it?

Can somebody enlighten me, maybe with an URL?

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (2)

Utter (4264) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918287)

Thanks.
Here's the information that I found about it:

A. Mac OS X Server is built on UNIX technologies, implementing most of the POSIX APIs,
which makes it easy to port UNIX applications, particularly those from a BSD heritage. The
main exception is applications with a graphical user interface, because Mac OS X Server
doesn't include the X Window System UI toolkits. Mac OS X Server is built around a graphical
interface, unlike traditional UNIX systems that rely on the command line. However, Mac OS X
Server cannot be called a UNIX operating system, as it does not fully comply with the POSIX
and X/OPEN specifications required for use of the UNIX trademark.
------------
No big deal that it can't call itself UNIX. Linux can't either. ;-) No X and that is worse.

Good news indeed (1)

Sleepy (4551) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918289)

While there's a downside to the "why" this is going Mac and Linux first, this is still overall a good thing for platform diversity. I'll be waiting in line to buy mine.

It's good that John has come around on Apple (notice I did not say "...MacOS"), and especially the future of the platform, MacOS X. I couldn't imagine ANY game programmer saying nice things about gaming under the ever-changing, four-year late "Cairo" oops I mean Windows 2K (Linux is gonna KILL Wintel for games when all PC's are force-preloaded with that flying pig).

There's sucky things about the MacOS, and I can draw upon time spent behind Wintel, Linux, BeOS, Solaris, and my old reliable GEM/Atari ST system. I have a list of complaints with each platform.. just I'm most comfortable with the Mac list which consistently gets shorter every day.. :-D

I think I'm gonna take a day out of work when I get my hands on Quake...

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

Electric Eye (5518) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918292)

The thing is, how many gamers have that "top of the line" machine? Most current gamers (Win) don't have a P3 and Voodoo3 card.
As a Mac gamer to Winhozed gamers: HA! ;-)

It's nice to see Carmack considering OS X for his development. He's been saying that for a long time. It's obvious (to me) that he doesn't care much for development on NT (duh!). I know he has a bunch of SGI boxes he uses as well. How close is OS X to UNIX? Well, the kernal is basically BSD, if that helps any....

3dfxGL? (1)

QueenFrag (5694) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918293)

iirc, the MiniGL (which gets better performance in exchange for only supporting a fraction of the total OpenGL calls) for 3dfx isn't enough for what carmack wants for q3a, so the benifits of win3dfxGL over mesa aren't that great when both have full(er) GL support.

Mmmmmm Macintosh. (1)

BigEd (6405) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918294)

For the first time in a really long time I actually wish I had a Mac. Maybe a nice G3 laptop the dual booted MacOS and Linux...

Then I could have Quake twice before all of the Windows people. :)

Rock on (1)

aphr0 (7423) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918295)

They are releasing Linux and Mac first because there's a dearth of users for those platforms. That just makes my day :-)

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

DarkClown (7673) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918296)

http://www.apple.com/macosx/
it uses bsd with a mach kernel

Rock on (1)

Accipiter (8228) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918298)

Yeah, but they're releasing Mac First. That just makes me Sick. heh.

-- Give him Head? Be a Beacon?

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

scrytch (9198) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918299)

> No big deal that it can't call itself UNIX. Linux can't either. ;-) No X and that is worse.

No, but Linux can call itself POSIX. It's even been certified to that effect now. And the X/Open standard doesn't mean it doesn't have X11 -- X/Open is the organization that owns the Unix trademark (now initial-cap only, I believe) and certifies systems (for an exhorbitant fee) as Unix compliant. The latest spec is Unix 98, and I don't know of any implementations that are fully compliant with it.

That's the lovely thing about standards. So many to choose from.

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (1)

scrytch (9198) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918300)

I've heard of forward thinking but this is ridiculous. Q3 is being ported for MacOS 8, not MacOS X. MacOS 8 does not now nor will it ever have the features that will be added Real Soon Now. iMacs do not currently ship with OS X. Not surprisingly, as Carmack has a product to ship for the installed base, not the one that will ship Real Soon Now, he bashes what he has to work with now.

Not Q3T, but q3test... (2)

dadams (9665) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918305)

This says nothing about when Quake 3 will come out, just that q3test is coming out for macs, then linux, then windows. It's just a beta thing. You start out with a small group (macs) so you can find the big bugs, move to a bigger one (linux) so you can find the medium sized bugs and then onto the big group (windows) so you can get all the teeny tiny bugs out. Very logical. If they started out with windows, they'd have a hard time sorting through all the bug reports, matching similar ones, etc.

Rock on (1)

Trith (10719) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918309)

They are releasing Windows last. That juts makes my day :-)
Romans 10:9-10 [gospelcom.net]

No confustion here. (1)

zealot (14660) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918319)

I don't see any confusion. Everyone is talking about Q3T: Q3 Test.

He's being perfectly fair... (1)

zealot (14660) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918320)

Why is it not fair to compare a Voodoo3 on PC to Rage Pro on G3? The statement he made is that the highest end performance 3D you can get on a mac is lower than the highest end performance 3D available on pc. That is exactly what he said. Is there some higher performance 3d solution for tha mac that we're unaware of?

Wait a sec... (1)

zealot (14660) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918321)

Is the Rage Pro 3D used on Macs the same chipset as the Rage 128 in PCs? Cuz if so, the performance on a Rage128 is comparable to a TNT, which is also very similar to a voodoo2 (depending on the exact demands of the app), and it's especially fast in 32bit color.

Regarding MacOSX (2)

Anonymous Shepherd (17338) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918323)

Do you trust Carmack's beliefs, as a developer, geek, and genius?

He evidently likes the NeXTStep environment, and sees MacOSX/Server as a very good thing. He seems to think the performance is fine, it's graphical capabilities good, and the OS itself not a hindrance.

Honestly, I believe it will be a better OS than MacOS. That's easy to believe, right?

I also think it will be better than Win9x, on it's Unix heritage. User Interface is always a preference thing, so as always, YMMV, but I've always liked the MacUI over the WinUI anyhow.

I also think it will be better than WinNT, thought it may be very close, because of it's Unix heritage and because of it's descendence from NeXTStep. Ditto as above on the UI.

Did you want to compare it to Linux?
It may very well suffer on several accounts, as it is a product of a closed source development cycle, but then again it is a Unix. It's look and feel and UI will be much more mature and advanced than Linux's, but again tastes vary, so that may not matter. It has access to more hardware than Linux right now, though that may be changing soon with everyone jumping on the Linux bandwagon.

Unless Apple screws up horrendously, in marketing(they do have the VW Beetle guy on their side, however), MacOSX should be a big hit this year, as compared to WinNT5/Win2k. It is also quite a bit more mature than Linux in many(not all) ways, and best of all, it's designed to pass the Mom test too.

AS

Excuse me? (2)

Anonymous Shepherd (17338) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918324)

My usage of the term 'closed source development' is intended to reflect the fact that Apple's MacOSX did not nor does not use the massively distributed parallel development and debugging model that is, for example, Linux. It may be based off of open source products and in the future will be open source, but right now the MacOSX is definitely been closed source development

AS

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

Tardigrade (17769) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918335)

"There is no reason why the GIMP developers, or another team couldn't port GIMP to Mac OS X either, except for perhaps their pride."

Not their pride, most of them would have no reason to, because they won't be using OS X. That doesn't mean someone else won't port it though.

NeXT based? Why? (1)

Tardigrade (17769) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918336)

Why does being based on something that is 30-years old automatically make something bad. Look at those horrible bicycles, they're over a hundred years old. The plane's over 90-years old.

Oh yea, and EVERYONE has a top-of-the-line G3? (1)

Belzebuth (17819) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918337)

And how many 400Mhz G3s do you think are you there? Bet you didn't think about that.

What makes me laugh is that Carmack says a 400Mhz G3 = 400Mhz P2, as far as CPU is concerned. That goes against Steve Jobs' propaganda that a 300Mhz G3 = 400Mhz P2.

PS. (1)

Belzebuth (17819) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918338)

Oh yes, and most serious gamers on PC DO have a P2-400 and TNT/Rage128, which just as good as the best G3 out there.

Oh yea, and EVERYONE has a top-of-the-line G3? (1)

Shadow Knight (18694) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918339)

You're right, but not only does it go against the propaganda, it goes against the facts (which are not as rosy as Steve Jobs says, either). The PowerPC chip is a true RISC chip, and for certain applications, it will absolutely destroy ANY Pentium or variant. The 400MHz G3 RIPS through RC5, for instance. It all depends on the application, but in general, a G3 will beat a PII MHz for MHz. Now, I don't know about a PIII with programs written to take advantage of the new instructions. That changes the playing field a lot. The PIII probably comes into parity with the G3, which is why it would be accurate to say that a 500MHz PIII beats a 400MHz G3. But of course, the G4 comes out soon, which should reverse the tables again...

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

Shadow Knight (18694) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918340)

Yes, and what I've heard is that Mac OS X is, in fact, 99.9% POSIX compliant. Apple made the decision not to spend the money on certification because it would have raised cost to the customers on dubious justification.

Not Q3T, but q3test... (1)

Praxxus (19048) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918342)

My god!!! You mean you actually read the article first instead of just coming to the message board and spewing OS-War crap?

You are to be commended.

But is it Mac -> Linux -> Win because of install base, or varying hardware? Is Linux bigger than Mac already? On the desktop, I mean?

I thought they were doing it the way they are because the Macs have a fairly homogenous hardware setup (and a smaller install base). Linux is next, because it has all those different motherboard/processor + card combos to sift through when fixing bugs, then Wind'oh!s because (this is the point Microlackies don't get) all the companies write drivers for them from the get-go, so anything that works with Intel is available to them. That would make it a nightmare for initial bugtracking, I'd think. :P

Seems like a really sensible release scheme to me, too. I would assume once the bugs get hammered out, all the final releases would be boxed and shipped at the same time.

--

Beta test only (1)

glen (19095) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918343)

This isn't the game or even the demo. This is a beta test only. They are only fishing for bugs with this release.

The demo and the final game release will obviously come out on all 3 simultaneously.

The only reason they're releasing to mac, linux, and win in that order is that they want to start with a smaller number of users to control the volume of bug reports.

Q3Test (0)

jeff_C (19805) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918344)

There seems to be some confusion.... This is the Q3Test, a beta version id releases to test the graphics engine. Just like the QTest they released before the original Quake.

mac os x server question (1)

ywwg (20925) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918349)

Is this new version a "MacOS X-Server"? Like an X-server for mac? Or is it just X meaning ten? I get confused.

owen

Problems with MacOS (1)

John Orazem (23657) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918351)

Carmack dicussed the problems in detail a while back. You can read about it here [bluesnews.com] .

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

Le douanier (24646) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918353)

KDE isn't a window manager.
KDE is a desktop environment that has a default window manager (unlike Gnome) called kwm.

Just my 2 cents :)

Regarding MacOSX (1)

Milkman Ken (26074) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918354)

Originality != genius. Id creates these types of games because they LIKE them. So do we, apparently. Ask anyone in the industry their opinion of Carmack and you'll get the exact same response. The guy is incredibly talented at optimizing code (look at the amount of STUFF in the original quake and look at what kind of hardware it ran on).

Carmack FUD Concrete Examples (1)

jalper (26652) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918355)

You should check out 8.6, which is about to be released. Apple's doing a good job of making MacOS 8 pretty damn good, actually, even with all the shitty legacy code lying around. I love Macs but I agree that MacOS is pretty bad, in terms of the lowlevel stuff.. But 8.5 and 8.6 are really quite good.

Hmmm... (0)

Frac (27516) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918356)

Well, I still see a lot of anti-Mac FUD here, but at least he's toning down a bit. I'd be quite surprised, however, if he actually trook the time to properly optimize the Mac version of Quake3. Oh, and he seems to have been testing a Voodoo2 (or Voodoo3 even?) on the PC vs. a Rage Pro on a beige G3; you call that fair? Also, I like this bit about "No openGL Voodoo support on the Mac..." It's called Mesa, John. It's been out for years. Sure, Apple doesn't yet have 3Dfx GL support (I have yet to figure out why) but the Mac does.

But hey, he's improving, at least. His anti-Mac rants aren't totally inaccurate anymore. And hell, he's giving Q3Test to Mac users first.

you mac people should consider yourselves lucky that Apple is willing to listen to Carmack on how to make Macs a better gaming platform (Carmack has been doing that since NeXt got acquired). I love how Mac evangelists brand anything negative about their beloved macs as FUD. If you can refute any of Carmack's claims (I doubt that 99% of you out there knows what he's talking about in his .plan files), then stfu. thank you.

Linux Before Windows (1)

Ender2 (32011) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918360)

I would love to see the new Quake 3 come out for Linux before windows. It really shows the the OS. is gaining acceptance in the Gaming industry. I quote OBI "You've taken your first step into a larger world." While I know this is not the first game to come out for Linux. It is very big for linux. I have never seen a game for linux being sold in a box as Quake 3 will. I belive they are doing the right thing with relaseing it in a box for linux.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (0)

magnetx (33177) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918361)

I dont think Carmack has time to be playing silly little games in /etc or flucking around in the console with vi...

mac os x server question (1)

Fong Sai Yuk (33255) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918362)

I hear you. The name game at Apple must have gotten wild. They mean "Mac OS 10 Server." It's a server OS with all the goodies like Apache and WebObjects. Mac OS X (10) Client will be the one that almost all mac users will buy, and Apple will load on their consumer machines.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

mistshadow (35753) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918366)

MacOS X does support remote-hosted programs, but the remote host has to be running MacOS X, too. (actually, OpenStep and NeXTSTEP would probably work, too.)

There will be X servers for MacOS X. NeXTSTEP certainly had one.

As far as remote-hosted Windows, there's always VNC [att.com] , which will let you view and interact with your Windows 95/98/NT (or Linux) box on another machine, be it Windows or Linux. It even has a client written as a Java applet. It doesn't support multiple logins or anything for Windows -- just interacting as if you were at the console. It is GPLed.

MacOS X Server (2)

puppybane (120218) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918371)

Mac OS X Server has BSD at its heart, but it also has a modified Mach 2.5 kernel and a whole bunch of NeXT conventions sitting over it. The most obvious differences from *nix to me are the directories which are named differently (my user directories are in /Local/Users/), and the tendency to call root 'Administrator'. Most of the important directories are named with capitals. The system was clearly designed to be navigated primarily through the GUI.

The OS does not include an X Server, as it uses its own Graphics scheme (currently based around Display Postscript, though that will change by the end of the year). It would be really nice if there was an X server. If you happen to be running the i386 distribution of Rhapsody DR2, you can download one from ftp.next.peak.org. Unfortunately for me, there is not currently one availiable for the PPC AFAIK. Sigh.

As for porting, anything that doesn't use X should not be a big problem. Directory stucturing is slightly different, and most of the differences are linked to look the same. With the help of a freely-downloadable patch, I was able to compile ssh to run within minutes (Well, there was a problem with install, which stopped it from installing sshd, so I had to figure that out, and manually copy that, but otherwise...). Hope some of that was useful.

Regarding MacOSX (4)

puppybane (120218) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918372)

Well, I can try. First, I would like to note that I am a Mac User, but I really like the power/stability of Unix. However, here is my attempt at a fair review of the OS I have been using constantly for about a week now (note: if Apple tells you 2-4 weeks for delivery, expect delivery on the 28th day :} ) I may put up a longer, more detailed one later, when I put off some assignment or another.

The installation was a snap, even on my non-supported PowerBook G3. Everything installed properly and once it was properly configured, the computer booted up in less than half the time it takes my MacOS partition to boot up. Before I configured it, it kept trying to get my network info off a system called NetInfo, which I had never heard of until this came out. I could be wrong, but it seems a bit silly to automatically try to get information from a scheme used by an OS which came out a month ago. But it was easy to switch over to bootP, and I have seen instructions on how to use DHCP.

Since I started up, for the past week, I have only had the OS crash twice--both times involved Apple's Blue Box, usually when I tried to exit it. Users of VM ware may have experienced similar things (I know my roommate has). Of course, one week is not a very long amount of time for testing.

It took me a bit to get used to the UI. IMHO, it has a ways to go, but it is very functional. It does have a problem with ignoring some of my settings, like Icon view instead of NeXT columns. Once I got past trying to convince it to remember that setting, and decided I actually liked the columns view better anyway, I was able to move on.

Moving files and directories around can be a bit strange. Sometimes, it lets you move it, other times, you copy it, and sometimes it defaults to linking. All of these can be overridden with modifier keys, and I imagine that the defaults have to do with partitioning/permissions, but it was confusing, and irritating when I tried to move a large file, and it copied it instead. Of course, all of this can also be done with the command line.

I keep hearing that this OS is very fast on other computers, but currently I have not seen it. I suspect that it doesn't like sharing the HD with a 2gig Mac partition, and I think it wants more than 64MB of RAM. I plan on ordering a 128MB SIMM, so we'll see if that helps. The biggest speed problems are all in loading software, and opening menus. I often get the feeling that I'm not expected to use the Apple menu, because it takes a second to open until it is either cached, or placed in physical memory. Or maybe my G3 266 just can't handle the load...

Configuring users is where I was really happy. Permissions, shell settings, passwords, whether or not the user should be able to log in remotely--all can be done from within network manager. The only thing which makes it strange is the obvious design slant toward people running a network. I am not, so many of the settings just aren't useful to me. Others probably have other opinions (inevitably). It seems easy to set up a network with, though it is focussed at Macintosh style network schemes (NetBooting and NetInfo). I'd like to try NetBoot, but I think my campus network admins would not appreciate the bandwidth it is supposed to take (Apple recommends a 100 baseT ethernet connection). Any user can open the Network Administration panel, but in order to change anything, one has to authenticate. So configuration is easy.

Once I got the system set up (this took me a total of maybe an hour, from the beginning of installation), I went to download some more software (games & stuff), by checking out Stepwise.com, and moving to ftp.peak.next.org. There isn't all that much there right now, but I am confident that things will swiftly be ported over. As it is, I got myself a handful of games (at one point, I would like to try to run Windows on Virtual PC on the BlueBox, and try to play some PC games...)

As a mac user, I was most pleased by the availiability of Quake2 for MacOS X Server, which OmniGroup ported a while back. OmniGroup also makes the only (AFAIK) web browser for OS X Server. Actually, this was the biggest problem, and one of the 2 reasons I am currently booted into MacOS. While their webbrowser is execellent, it is still beta, and missing a very important feature for me--secure http. I need that to sign up for my classes for next semester, and to check my account. It also means I can't log in to the Apple Developer web-site. However, I will note that I think OmniWeb is one of the nicest browsers out there, with a very nice interface. They do things a bit differently than Netscape, though, which caused me some confusion at first (pressing the down arrow goes down the list of all the hyperlinks on the page. You could navigate the whole page with arrow keys and return, but I expected it to just scroll down.

The other reason I'm back on Mac is because even dimmed, my Powerbook's monitor throws off enough light to see well in my room at night, and OS X Server does not support certain controls on the Powerbook. There is no sleep mode, there is no power management, and I cant dim the display so there is no backlighting. The biggest part of that is that I have to log out and shutdown before I take the Powerbook anywhere, or it will overheat with it's top shut. But that's why Apple doesn't support the Powerbooks with OS X Server (OS X most likely will).


The next thing I did was to look for the much-vaunted developer stuff--Interface Builder and Project Builder. These, along with the API, where and are the reason there are still devoted NeXT developers out there. I couldn't find them, because Apple put them on the CD labelled WebObjects for Developers. But I found them, and now I understand why NeXT had their following. Those tools are amazing. I know very little about the API (I haven't had time yet), but Project builder is one of the nicest development environments I've seen. Users of Microsoft's Visual development suites will find it familiar, since MS based those on Interface Builder and Project Builder. Every function call/declaration is availiable for viewing with a few clicks, and if you ever scroll by, and see a function that you don't know the meaning of (even/especially Yellow Box functions), you can just open the find panel with a click, paste in the name, and tell it to find the definition, or all references to the function. If it is a Yellow Box function, it will also list a little book next to the declaration, clicking on which takes you to an html file (opened inside Project builder) which explains the use of that function. Apple also includes help files on using the tools.

All in all, I'm happy with my purchase (of course, I got it for $99 through Apple Developer Connection) I hope other developers start to port things over. I would like to take a crack at getting one of the PPC X Servers running on this thing. Anyway, being as it is day, and I'm done checking my student account, I will go boot back into it now.

Good and Bad news for Mac fans (1)

Harvester (157992) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918373)

shows how little you know about Carmack, oh brainless one. He's a UNIX fan.

much ado about linux... SMP (1)

Detroit (165885) | more than 15 years ago | (#1918374)

I don't see much in either .plan about problems with linux. They have to have some issues, like driver/ glide issues, something.

ALSO: Is this damn game multithreaded or not? The general opinion was on yes, then the Man porting glide to linux says no. And will there be any way around it no q3a or glide smp support? Pmesa?

grr

d
Load More Comments
Slashdot Account

Need an Account?

Forgot your password?

Don't worry, we never post anything without your permission.

Submission Text Formatting Tips

We support a small subset of HTML, namely these tags:

  • b
  • i
  • p
  • br
  • a
  • ol
  • ul
  • li
  • dl
  • dt
  • dd
  • em
  • strong
  • tt
  • blockquote
  • div
  • quote
  • ecode

"ecode" can be used for code snippets, for example:

<ecode>    while(1) { do_something(); } </ecode>
Create a Slashdot Account

Loading...