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Cloudscape Gains Momentum

Hemos posted more than 9 years ago | from the ibms-big-move dept.

Databases 139

A reader writes: "There's been a lot of bits written recently about the growth of Open Source databases; as well as IBM's patent gift, as their release of the Java database Cloudscape. There's a contest running on SourceForge.net around Cloudscape; download and run with it." SF.net is part of OSTG, like Slashdot.

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Java database ? (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11478973)


wouldn't it be quicker to print your data on paper and sort it by hand ?

Java zealot's response (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479011)

No, no, no, you get it all wrong.

Java is now no longer a technology to add bullshit to webbrowsers.

It is a mature (so says Sun), fast (so says Sun) and memory-conservative (so says Sun) platform which is platform-independent (so says Sun).

It is used in major companies and organizations for mission-critical and user-centric applications which leverage the power of the human resources and empower an increasi in return-on-investment.

Do you want to imply that the CEOs and CTOs of most major companies are *gasp* fucking clueless XP-wieners? I'm sure this would come as a big surprise to all of us.

Re:Java zealot's response (2, Informative)

Ryosen (234440) | more than 9 years ago | (#11484216)

Oooh, lookie! It's a trolling AC. Ok, I'll bite.

Java *is* a mature language celebrating its 10th year in 2005. J2EE, as the sum of its collective parts (EJB, Servlets, JSP, RMI) has been around for 7 years. By industry standards, these are "old-timers".

Java is memory "conservative" (on a server), requiring far less RAM than the .NET platform. Depending on the application server that you implement, you will find varying degrees of performance. Try not to give in to the uninformed mindset that the Java runtime included with the SDK in 1996 was the end-all be-all of Java compilers. That FUD went out of style a long time ago along with bell bottoms, the Dodo and civil liberties.

Java *is* platform-independent. My firm has developed applications running on various different *nix and Windows platforms that have been in production for over 4 years. Any platform-dependent implementation (e.g. via JNI) should be abstracted far enough away from the core application that, in the rare case that it is required, it can be easily replaced. To not design your application in such a manner is foolish and irresponsible.

Business has been very successful on the Java platform for years and much ealier than .NET and ASP.

Or are you suggesting that everything would be better off if it were just writtin in Perl?

Silly troll.

Re:Java database ? (5, Informative)

Eric Giguere (42863) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479022)

Hey, I like Java as much as anyone, but if you're looking for a fast, multi-platform, zero-administration database be sure to check out SQL Anywhere Studio [ianywhere.com] . The Developer Edition is completely free and runs on Linux, Solaris, Mac OS X, Netware and most flavors of Windows, including CE/PocketPC. See the description of what's in SQL Anywhere Studio [ianywhere.com] for details. (Note that some of you may remember SQL Anywhere as Watcom SQL.)

Eric
Listen, folks: JavaScript is NOT Java! [ericgiguere.com]

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479045)

I hate Java.

Is it useful for anything else than mouse-over effects on websites yet?

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479092)

congratulations on not paying any attention for the last 5 or so years.

Re:Java database ? (0, Troll)

blacksway (464427) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479100)

Thats javascript you trolley n00b!

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479104)

Research has shown Java and Javscript to be compatible.

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479118)

research has also shown Anonymous Cowards to be morons.

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479127)

Research has also shown troll baiting is still alive and well.

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479149)

nothing else to do after midnight.

I guess I could go to bed, but that involves moving.

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479468)

> Research has shown Java and Javscript to be compatible.

Has he? Well, then Research is an idiot. Who is he? Can you give me his address?

Re:Java database ? (1)

IpalindromeI (515070) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480326)

Here he is. [slashdot.org]

Re:Java database ? (1)

Eric Giguere (42863) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480455)

To be proper, it's not javascript or Javascript, it's JavaScript [netscape.com] . Although really if everyone referred to it as ECMAScript [ecma-international.org] there would be less confusion.

Eric

But that is not embeddable (5, Insightful)

MarkEst1973 (769601) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479264)

Your post was certainly informative in that others might have learned about a new tool and are looking at Sql Anywhere, but to be fair, the purpose of that tool is different than Cloudscape's.

Embedding a database in an application can be very useful, such as in a desktop GUI where you cannot rely on network communication or maybe don't want to bother with a client/server environment.

I'd certainly consider Java/Cloudscape for a desktop db-backed application over anything built in Access.

As always, fit the tool to the job, not the job to the tool.

Re:But that is not embeddable (2, Informative)

mod_critical (699118) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480151)

I have found the ability to embed the database in the application exceptionally useful for a recent J2EE deployment we worked on.

I liked the idea of just being able to plop the org.apache.derby.jdbc.EmbeddedXADataSource class into my connection pool and have a database. I like that I can tell the suits that the database is built by IBM and that's all I hear about it. And I like that once this venture grows and starts to make more money I can switch fairly seemlessly to DB2.

It probably should not be considered a security measure, but there is also a certain level of security gained since there is no actualy database server that can be accessed seperately from the application server

Re:But that is not embeddable (1)

Eric Giguere (42863) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480403)

People mean different things when they say "embedded". Do you mean "embedded" as in actually part of the application, or do you mean "embedded" as in the database is a server process on the same device (no networking involved)? It wasn't clear from the post.

There are in fact two database technologies in SQL Anywhere Studio. First there is Adaptive Server Anywhere [ianywhere.com] , the full-featured relational database that runs on all the platforms mentioned. Second is UltraLite [ianywhere.com] , a small-footprint database for Palm OS and Windows CE platforms. One or both of these will fit the two "embedded" definitions, it depends on what you want. (UltraLite is the technology for the "true" embedded scenario.) Data from either can be synced to another database using MobiLink [ianywhere.com] or SQL Remote [ianywhere.com] , depending on what kind of replication model you're looking for.

Eric

Re:But that is not embeddable (1)

arkanes (521690) | more than 9 years ago | (#11481830)

Cloudscape looks really nice. I'm not a Java guy, though, so I use SQLLite (http://www.sqlite.org/ [sqlite.org] ) as my embedded database.

Re:But that is not embeddable (2, Interesting)

duffer_01 (184844) | more than 9 years ago | (#11483514)

"Embedding a database in an application can be very useful, such as in a desktop GUI where you cannot rely on network communication or maybe don't want to bother with a client/server environment."

I completely disagree. I think most people think that SQL Anywhere is just used for client/server communication when in fact you can also easily use it for standalone use in embedded applications. In fact, I would argue that SQL Anywhere is far easier to embed than Cloudscape since you only need to deal with 2 database files (db and log) which can be copied from any of the supported OS's (Linux, Win32, WinCE, etc). You can simply embed the dll's and exe's that you require for you application directly into your install. Add the fact that SQL Anywhere takes a lot less space than Cloudscape and you have a much better embedded solution.

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479625)

But most of us don't care so much about free. We care about Free [gnu.org] .

Re:Java database ? (1)

freemacmini (852263) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480903)

If you want a fast, multi platform, zero administration database that's also open source check out firebird [sourceforge.net] .

Re:Java database ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479138)

For jobs where you need a proper database certainly Cloudscape is not going to cut it.

However for a lot of projects you might require data to be stored but not have the overheard required by installing the more serious applications (eg. Basic user data).

IBM have also tried to make Cloudscape more friendly to step towards DB2 if in fact you do need a powerhorse at a later stage.

Re:Java database ? (2, Informative)

PartyBoy!911 (611650) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479827)

IBM uses the cloudscape database as backend to a lot of products like Worksphere Portal.
They normally recomend DB2 for production but one of the latest products "Workplace Services Express" can only be used with the embedded Cloudscape.

The product is intended for SMB and scales upto 1000 users. And this is for Groupware/Document storage etc. http://www.lotus.com/products/product5.nsf/wdocs/w orkplaceservicesexpresshome/ [lotus.com]

It is fast (2, Interesting)

sasoon (727664) | more than 9 years ago | (#11481067)

Download and you will see that it is fast. Have not tried Derby, but I tried http://mckoi.com/database/ [mckoi.com] 2 years ago. It was very fast. Under win32 I compared it with a MS jet engine database (mdb file) with the jdbc odbc bridge driver, almost equal speed, plus the possibility to work with unicode strings.

Eh.. (2, Insightful)

oisteink (234061) | more than 9 years ago | (#11478974)

And the story is about?

marketing?

Re:Eh.. (2, Informative)

Jackdaw Rookery (696327) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479062)

I think you may have missed the point of the post, the story is advertising Slashdot jumping the shark.

Well OK maybe not, but this is a fluff piece at best, self advertising at worst. Plus the prize is US only so it cuts out a lot if interest right away.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Re:Eh.. (1)

null etc. (524767) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479991)

Yeah, haven't you noticed all of the CloudScape adds on Slashdot?

"Test your skills with Java and Win an IPod - Take the Challenge for Java"

"Download the Newest Open Source Database. Easy to Learn and Use. Fast Download. Do It Now!" I hope Slashdot continues to post articles about their paid sponsors.

Wrong language, wrong thing. (3, Insightful)

InterruptDescriptorT (531083) | more than 9 years ago | (#11478979)

A Java database?

Isn't that a little bit like writing a Fast Fourier Transform [wolfram.com] in LISP?

There are lots of things that Java is perfectly suited for. Databases are not one of those things.

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (4, Insightful)

sporty (27564) | more than 9 years ago | (#11478990)

Why not? If it's fast enough, and it works, it'd be good for java embeded applications and/or stuff that uses a database for scratch-work. It could also be used instead of complex data structures in memory that require massaging to get anything out of.

Java IS NOT slow (1)

koi88 (640490) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479041)


Java IS NOT slow

If anything, the interface gives it a feeling of slow.

Re:Java IS slow (2, Interesting)

WillerZ (814133) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479140)

Portable Java is slow, because you have to use the abstract types sun give you rather than exploit your platform's capabilities.

The JVM initialisation time is waaay longer than the C runtime initialisation time on every platform I've tested, which makes short-running processes feel awful in Java.

Finally, whenever it becomes necessary to actually _do_ anything, the JNI must be crossed, and that's slow.

Phil

Re:Java IS slow (1)

essreenim (647659) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479665)

Finally, whenever it becomes necessary to actually _do_ anything, the JNI must be crossed, and that's slow. wtf???

I can't take anyone seriously when they say the above.

The JNI is not slow...

Yes, it is. (1)

WillerZ (814133) | more than 9 years ago | (#11482111)

Read this very carefully.

To send a network packet in C: construct it in your program; call write(), which is a system call.

To send a network packet in Java: construct it in your program; call YadaYada.write(), which copies it across the JNI to a C module; C module calls write() which is a system call.

No matter how fast the JNI is, CROSSING IT WILL ALWAYS BE SLOWER THAN NOT CROSSING IT.

This is not a difficult concept. The JNI tax applies whenever you need to do anything which must be accomplished with a native call. File I/O, drawing GUIs, Network I/O, accessing user input -- all these things and more require that the native way of doing things be converted to/from the Java way of doing things. Admittedly, the VM does some of these internally without the full-price JVM getting involved.

Java has a runtime cost, and the JNI is a large part of that (because a sufficiently good JIT helps with everything else). It's up to you to determine if the development-time benefits (if any) are large enough to warrant the run-time cost for your projects.

Phil

Re:Yes, it is. (3, Interesting)

Ryosen (234440) | more than 9 years ago | (#11484454)

I think you might be misunderstanding what JNI is. Each Java runtime provides its own implementation to the native underlying system libraries. Java does not communicate through JNI for I/O of any kind.

JNI itself is a generic abstraction layer to the underlying operating system. It provides a mechanism whereby dynamic libraries not directly supported by the runtime engine can still be accessed by a Java application.

Threading, sockets and GUI are implemented via the native system libraries. AWT used to be very slow (as opposed to just being merely slow today) due to its own multi-layed abstraction. But at no time was JNI the conduit for these systems.

Further reading: http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/native1.1/ concepts/index.html [sun.com]

Re:Java IS NOT slow (1)

oldwarrior (463580) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479300)

with end-user experience, perception IS the only reality.

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (4, Insightful)

sonofagunn (659927) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479073)

Have fun embedding your C database inside a Java server app (I think you've missed the point of Cloudscape).

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (1, Insightful)

Decaff (42676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479178)

There are lots of things that Java is perfectly suited for. Databases are not one of those things.

Funny, I remember the 'it's too slow' argument being used against C++ 20 years ago.

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (5, Informative)

EkkiEkkiShiwaddle (823778) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479189)

There are lots of things that Java is perfectly suited for. Databases are not one of those things.

I'm a Java developer, and have been almost from the very start of Java. While I tend to agree with you at first, I would like to point out some benefits of using Cloudscape.

Over the years I've had a few (small, hobby) projects, where I really felt the need for a database which did not need to be fast nor did it need to be huge. So I tried Cloudscape. And while it isn't the fastest around, it gets the job done.

The easiest part is that you can just bundle it with your application, without writing a single line of code!

I've tried MySQL, but I still need to install it prior to being able to run my application - no need for that with Cloudscape.

But, granted, it is not the fastest out there. If I need a *real* database, I just use Oracle.

2 points you are wrong on. (2, Informative)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479207)

Write a program in cpp. Run it. a million times.

Now write a program in Java. Guess what, Java is not an interpretted language. It doesn't use some fluffy brightly coloured play-doh type bits, it uses regular ones, like cpp binaries.

Java compiled the byte code into executable form. Then it does some on the fly optimisation.

Java VM's can out-perform cpp over n cycles, where n is sufficient to overcome Java start times (seconds)

Secondly, FFT or a DCT in Java or cpp, I haven't seen benchmarks, but there are right and wrong ways to do it in both languages.

Thirdly, Databases, noone said they had to be FAST. Now remember Java isn't slow. Most databases on this earth spend thier time knitting and throwing stupid errors.

A few have to deal with mind-GOOGLING amount of data.

So there you have it, if you want a very nice Java db, try mckoi

http://mckoi.com/database

great support, open source, and works like a charm! I use an IBM DB server remotely, and an embedded mckoi instance for such things as prefs and other niceties. (as well as local work on data)

There you go.

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479513)

Write a program in cpp

Programming with the C preprocessor? Madness!

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479677)

Java VM's can out-perform cpp over n cycles, where n is sufficient to overcome Java start times (seconds)

Yes, and a well-supplied tortoise can out-distance a rocket over n years, where n is much longer than the rocket's burn time :/

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (1)

essreenim (647659) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479729)

mod. (so stupid its funny, +5)

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (1)

Hognoxious (631665) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480441)

Unless Zeno shoots it with an arrow. Or was it Achilles?

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11480697)

Thanks for the link to McKoi! I need an embedded database for a java app I'm working on, but I need one that's GPL (my app is GPL). Cloudscape has a nasty IBM license, so I don't want to use THAT...

Thanks!

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (1)

swamp boy (151038) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480819)

Sorry to tell you, but cpp binaries use regular ones AND zeroes. I'm not sure what that does for your fluffy brightly coloured play-doh type bits argument.

Re:2 points you are wrong on. (1)

duffer_01 (184844) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480826)

"Databases, noone said they had to be FAST"

I have about 27,000 sales reps that would disagree with you on that.

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (1)

mborland (209597) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480087)

There are lots of things that Java is perfectly suited for. Databases are not one of those things.

Slashdotters love broad, generalized statements. (oops) ;-)

I disagree with you completely. For example, simple embedded databases (see HSQLDB [sourceforge.net] ) can be very useful. I know someone who's teaching an class with Java and wanted to touch on databases. A java-based database (in this case, HSQLDB can run in-process) is great for this. You don't have to install a huge server on your development system just to learn the ins and outs of SQL. You just drop the hsqldb.jar file in your lib directory or whatever, and you are ready to go.

Another guy I know has a very successful company that uses HSQLDB embedded in their client app to provide very basic database functions internal to the application. This way persistent data can be managed by the app without having to resort to wonky homebrew data storage or super-large XML files (they would be VERY large in this app's case). Installation of their app doesn't require some humungous install of a data server. They just want something that will run in the app process that will be reliable and perform basic database functions.

By the way, HSQLDB can be run as a server as well, I was just focusing on the advantages of using it in-process.

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (2, Informative)

MarkWatson (189759) | more than 9 years ago | (#11481541)

Common Lisp is fast and efficient for numeric calculations (*) - I have used it for large neural network training runs, FFTs (I found a library -did not write it myself), etc.

While Java and Python are the languages that I most frequently use, CL is a powerful tool - try it!

(*) with compiler type directives

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (2, Informative)

Empty Threats (543523) | more than 9 years ago | (#11481693)

Trolling about Java and Lisp at the same time? Isn't that a little bit like ASKING FOR IT? Fast Fourier Transform is actually one of the traditional benchmarks [cliki.net] for Common Lisp, the Gabriel series. Now run along and play in traffic.

Re:Wrong language, wrong thing. (2, Informative)

s1234d (542588) | more than 9 years ago | (#11483902)

Actually, modern Lisp implementations can be faster than compiled C. Some Lisps run like lightning on numerical stuff. See here for an example:
http://home.comcast.net/~bc19191/blog/040308.html

IF...... (1)

rguiu (472301) | more than 9 years ago | (#11478994)

You can win an Ipod or TShirt only if you are US or Canada resident....are they trying to encorage inmigration? The rest of the world should not bother about using Cloudscape I assume...

Re:IF...... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Cowherd X (850136) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479086)

You can win an Ipod or TShirt only if you are US or Canada resident....are they trying to encorage inmigration? The rest of the world should not bother about using Cloudscape I assume...

Let's see, most people would need at least an hour to write a JDBC application to search the tables for some silly magic word. Most eligible contestants from the US and Canada who have the knowledge to write such an application make more than enough in one hour to buy an iPod and a T-shirt. So why should anyone even bother to play this game, just for the fun of it? You develop JDBC applications all day long and then in your spare time you do the same for fun... and you might even win a T-shirt. Wow, they really know how to motivate people! Alienating the rest of the world and giving people a sense of worthlessness about their achievements is not the best way to make a product popular. But I'm just clouding the issue...

Re:IF...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479242)

FYI, you don't need to write a jdbc application as it comes with a command line sql tool - takes about 10 minutes at most.

So why should anyone even bother to play this game, just for the fun of it?

Yes, exactly, for the fun of it. Those of us who are actually interested in Java.

Alienating the rest of the world and giving people a sense of worthlessness about their achievements is not the best way to make a product popular

Yes Troll, they offer up a solid Java database to open source and they are "Alienating" the world.

Re:IF...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479467)

This is about the contest, you fool. It's open only to the residents of the US and Canada and the world is much bigger than that if you haven't noticed yet. Creating such a limited contest is giving a signal to the rest of the world that they don't care about the rest of the world. Alienation is the word.

Re:IF...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479768)

Well they don't care about the rest of the world.. kinda sucks to be the rest of the world I guess. You still get a sweet database, but I guess you really wanted the 1/20000 or whatever chance to win a ipod.

Re:IF...... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11480740)

Yes, but it isn't GPL, so you can't use it in your GPL application comfortably. What good is it?

Re:IF...... (1)

easter1916 (452058) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480393)

Make enough in an hour to buy an iPod? An iPod shuffle 512MB, if you're lucky... I want to work in this mythical place you refer to, where the hourly rate is >=$99/hour...

I'm lucky to see less than half that.

As usual (2, Interesting)

cpct0 (558171) | more than 9 years ago | (#11478996)


Only one entry per person and you must be a US or Canadian (except for Quebec) resident over the age of 18 to play.


I'm from Quebec ... and as usual, contents makers will not take the trouble of being compatible with Loto-Québec's rules. They are easy to follow, strangely... not a lot of stuff to fill in. It mainly is there to make sure we don't get screwed up


... and it also means everyone in the other countries will not be able to participate. Yeehaa

Re:As usual (1)

Deusy (455433) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479005)

Is it cos I is black?

Re:As usual (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479075)

No, the contest creators are agreeing that Quebec should be its own country. You should be proud.

Re:As usual (1)

gl4ss (559668) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479142)

.. and THE DAMN ADS STILL GET SHOWN to people outside of usa.

with all this locator jumbo bungo you'd expect that they'd demand that they don't waste their adviews on indians.

Re:As usual (1)

A.Chwunbee (838021) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480548)

Sahb, are you thinking that there are not being any indians in the jolly old USA? And no, good sir, I am not meaning the ones with feather hats and living in tents!

What's in a name? (3, Interesting)

Trejkaz (615352) | more than 9 years ago | (#11478997)

Wasn't Cloudscape donated to the Apache project, where it changed its name to Derby? Don't IBM think that offering a download of "Cloudscape" is going to confuse developers?

What? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11482200)

Slashdot users being confused? You must be kidding...

Spelling mistake in submission (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11478998)

The submitter mispelt 'cynical ploy' as 'patent gift', wake up editors.

Re:Spelling mistake in submission (1)

plasticmillion (649623) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479169)

Yeah but you misspelled "misspelled."

Re:Spelling mistake in submission (2, Funny)

mabinogi (74033) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479231)

no, he misspelt "misspelt" [reference.com] .

Re:Spelling mistake in submission (1)

plasticmillion (649623) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479943)

You say "potato", I say "po-TAH-to"... :-)

Re:Spelling mistake in submission (1)

Master of Transhuman (597628) | more than 9 years ago | (#11484012)


Let's call the whole thing off...

I've written a review of this (5, Informative)

Simon Brooke (45012) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479038)

As it happens I've already written a review of cloudscape; the google cache of it is here [google.com] .

Brief summary: get the Apache version [apache.org] ; reasonably full SQL92 syntax; performance OK; a bit lacking on security.

Re:I've written a review of this (2, Interesting)

inertia@yahoo.com (156602) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480100)

reasonably full SQL92 syntax;

Actually, I think the biggest limitation [apache.org] is the 18 character names for constraints (et. al).

Re:I've written a review of this (2, Funny)

Oliver Aaltonen (606410) | more than 9 years ago | (#11481417)

You probably want to use the text-only cached link [64.233.161.104] , since the one you gave still grabs files from your web server (images, stylesheets, etc.).

Contest just for USA and Canada (except Quebec) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479080)

'nuff said.

Re:Contest just for USA and Canada (except Quebec) (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479105)

and except Nebraska!

Here is a swell idea! (4, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479125)

Lets see how many open source projects we can get going at one time to compete against one another with absolutely no standardization! YESSSS!

But seriously -- this is getting out of hand. If every single company, individual, etc. starts an open source project what does that accomplish? Nothing. It brings about 100 different alternatives to the market most of which would never be viable in a commercial environment.

News flash: devote time and effort to succesful projects that extend the reach of the open source community. Another open source database project is just well... another project.

Re:Here is a swell idea! (2, Insightful)

karakal (846584) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479414)

If you, my friend, didn't get it: this is the idea of OS. Not to be restricted to some few projects. And I always find something with stands for or against any new project, when I am devoting some time to it.

Re:Here is a swell idea! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11480931)

OSS is a market place also -- a market place of ideas. Don't worry, projects that are ill-conceived, do not meet some need, do not have some intrinsic aesthetic or intellectual interest, will not receive much attention or attract many contributors.

C++ Databases and Open Source (2, Informative)

plasticmillion (649623) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479154)

I was struck during our search for a database for our product by the paucity of systems that fulfill our requirements:
  1. Small and embeddable
  2. Open source
  3. Native C++ interface
It seems like practically all the databases that fill the first two requirements are written in Java and use it as their primary API. Finally we settled on Sleepycat's Berkeley DB XML, which meets these requirements and has a native XML interface to boot. The one potential caveat is that they use a hybrid license that lets users "opt out" of the GPL by paying a fee, after which they can distribute their product as closed source. Personally I think this is a great thing (always nice to have more options and you don't have to pay anything if you product is also open source), but I'd be interested in the views of the /. crowd.

Re:C++ Databases and Open Source (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479388)

SQLite ( www.sqlite.org [sqlite.org] ) is smaller than BDB, in the public domain, and written in C. And unlike BDB, it includes a very capable SQL layer.

Code footprints:

  • SQLite: less than 250KB
  • BDB: about 450KB
  • Derby: 2000KB jar file

Re:C++ Databases and Open Source (1)

mattyrobinson69 (751521) | more than 9 years ago | (#11482390)

Forgive my complete ignorance, but i thought sqlite could only handle one simultanious transaction?

im wrong, aren't i???

Re:C++ Databases and Open Source (3, Informative)

defMan (175410) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479395)

How about using SQLite [sqlite.org] . It's a C library (native C++, does that mean C is ok?) which provides a self-contained database engine. No need to run a DBMS.

Re:C++ Databases and Open Source (3, Informative)

Pedersen (46721) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479463)

You might wanna check out SQLite [sqlite.org] , which is in the public domain [sqlite.org] . It matches all of your requirements, and then some, I think.

Re:C++ Databases and Open Source (1)

karakal (846584) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479469)

I can tell you the views of the "crows": First: I has to be free Second: I has not to be from Microsoft Third: If you want to earn money with it you are equal to Microsoft, therefore bad and should be rot in hell Fourth: There is only one thing, that is more bad than Microsoft: Apple (because they earn money) I think, I summarized it up. My personal opinion is that the GPL is just useless.

Re:C++ Databases and Open Source (1)

ralphdaugherty (225648) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480485)


After research last weekend I decided on BDB as well, but am also going to download Apache Derby version of Cloudscape as well if I want to use triggers and stored procedures for an app.

rd

Purpose (3, Informative)

barryman_5000 (805270) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479190)

Best thing about cloudscape is small embedded databases for java programs rather than making calls to a huge mysql database. You may say that java is slow but anyone using cloudscape for more than 20,000 entries may not be thinking that through. Cloudscape will also be useful for java programmers to program a database using java.

Re:Purpose (1)

easter1916 (452058) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480355)

*This* gets modded insightful? No disrespect, but the guy just repeated a couple of very obvious points about a small, embeddable Java database...

Not a difficult challenge (1)

InterStellaArtois (808931) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479210)

Although I'm in the UK, I downloaded Cloudscape and the contest files [sourceforge.net] yesterday, just because it sounded like a cool challenge.

I thought it would be a great test of my increasing Java skills and maybe I'd learn more about transactions, stored procedures, etc.

Well, an hour later I'd got Cloudscape working, I'd unlocked the Magic Word and I was looking it up in the dictionary thinking "is it really a real word?"

If you can do SELECTs, it's quite a trivial 'challenge' I'm afraid.

Re:Not a difficult challenge (0, Flamebait)

oldwarrior (463580) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479357)

how's the marketing department doing at ol'Big Blue these days? I was waiting for some salesbot to come posting here...

Re:Not a difficult challenge (1)

thecombatwombat (571826) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480821)

Yeah, I was disappointed too. I didn't have to write a single line of Java to solve the "Java Challenge."

Re:Not a difficult challenge (1)

mccrew (62494) | more than 9 years ago | (#11481848)

C'mon now, it's not supposed to be a difficult challenge.

If you step back and think about it for a minute, the goal here is to generate buzz, get developers to download the product and try it out, and have a small amount of "success" with it. Now all of a sudden, Cloudscape is on the radar of a large number of developers, and is more likely to be considered for use in upcoming projects.

Arrrrghh! (3, Funny)

Moe Yerca (14391) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479335)

You bastards! Thanks for cutting my chances of winning an iPod down 100x.

So how does it compare to the alternatives? (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479464)

Namely HSQLDB [sourceforge.net] and Mckoi [mckoi.com] ?

Anyone find a decent article comparing the three yet?

The iPod prize pattern (1)

otisg (92803) | more than 9 years ago | (#11479496)

The most interesting part of that Cloudscape promotion on SF is the prize tht follows the pattern of all other promotions I've seen recently: "Win an iPod!"

That says something about Apple and iPod brand, no? That is also a great marketing for Apple and its iPod product! Jobs must be rubbing his hands...

frist st0p! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479516)

aapeared...saying corpse turned ove8 had at lunchtime

Read the License (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11479780)

How many of you actually read through the license? Did you see the part where they can use any of your contact information and provide ANYTHING they get about you. So, it looks like IBM is now in the business of providing SPAM databases as well.

I should note that I stopped there. I will unlikely ever download and use the product, regardless of usefullness.

IPod and IBM (1)

razmaspaz (568034) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480430)

What do the iPod and IBM have to do with each other again? Remotely maybe the boost in sales of iPods correlates to a boost in Power4/5 Processors for IBM, but only remotely.

This would have been a much better promotion if IBM had given away a free license for DB2 or something. Think about it, all the companies that want a license for DB2 check out cloudscape and see what it is all about because they want a license for DB2.

The License (1)

NotFamous (827147) | more than 9 years ago | (#11480780)

I downloaded Cloudscape and started the install. I had to read the license before proceeding. I found it absolutely incomprehensible. Is this a license for personal use? Do I have to pay for distributing it with my app? What if I set it up as a server db via networking? More licenses? I could not figure out what I was obtaining. It CERTAINLY was not 'free' software.

Robocode (1)

acomj (20611) | more than 9 years ago | (#11482513)

Finally and embedable database for robocode [ibm.com] robot. I will finally have and easy way all the data on all my oponents movements... !! !!

And still get wiped out..

You insensitiv3 clod!! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11484084)

the 4roject as a
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