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Samsung's Linux-based Diskless Camcorder

michael posted more than 9 years ago | from the jack-of-all-trades dept.

Handhelds 199

An anonymous reader writes "LinuxDevices has a story about the Samsung Miniket, a digital camcorder the size of a pack of cards that also works as a portable MP3 player, webcam, voice recorder, storage device, and more. The Miniket (annoying Flash and sound) will be available in February or March in the US, for $600-$700, with a rugged 'sports' model to follow. The device runs Linux, boots in under a second, and is the first of several products from Samsung that will run a new variation of Linux called 'ARM-no-MMU.' LinuxDevices also has a whitepaper about Samsung research that shows the new Linux variant to be faster than normal Linux."

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For those not in the know (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505314)

MMU stands for memory management unit. It is a component used to protect parts of memory from being accidently overwritten, for example.

Re:For those not in the know (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505447)

Thank you Professor Torvalds.

...and ARM... (2, Funny)

Aardpig (622459) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505805)

...stands for 'Advanced RISC Machines', the spinoff company that grew out of Acorn Ltd's ARM (this time, 'Acorn RISC Machine') series of RISC cpus. These chips made their debut in Acorn's Archimedes computers, and were the first RISC chips to appear in home machines. They are used a lot today in situations where a high MIPS/watt ratio is needed, typically embedded devices.

Request for clarification on Diskless technology. (1, Interesting)

sanityspeech (823537) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505319)

I'm somewhat unclear on how this device classifies as a "diskless camcorder."

From the article:

The Miniket is available in three models, with internal storage capacities of 256MB, 512MB, and 1GB.

How can a "diskless camcorder" have internal storage?

From the gentoo diskless HOWTO: [gentoo.org]

A diskless machine is a PC without any of the usual boot devices such as hard disks, floppy drives or CD-ROMs. The diskless node boots off the network and NEEDS A SERVER that will provide it with storage space as a local hard disk would.
(Emphasis mine.)

Can anyone reconcile these statements?

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (1)

Roguelazer (606927) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505341)

They probably mean diskless as in no MiniDV disks.

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (1)

limpdawg (77844) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505345)

It likely uses a solid state memory device. Thus diskless. It doesn't mean that it boots off a network. Your second link is irrelevant to the product.

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (3, Insightful)

jersey_emt (846314) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505346)

My guess that it uses some sort of flash memory, which is technicially not a 'disk'.

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (2, Interesting)

Albanach (527650) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505907)

My guess that it uses some sort of flash memory, which is technicially not a 'disk'.

Informitive?!? Actually, the article's informitive:

Movie length can be extended using removable storage cards. The Miniket includes a MultiCard slot that supports Memory Stick and Memory Stick Pro cards. Memory Stick and its faster Pro variant are typically supported by digital cameras and other consumer devices from Sony. Memory Sticks are currently available from SanDisk and Sony in capacities up to 4GB, typically priced slightly higher per megabyte than CompactFlash cards.

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (4, Informative)

greechneb (574646) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505396)

The Miniket boots from 128KB of NOR Flash, and includes 16MB of SDRAM. As noted above, various models offer different amounts of user file storage, which is based on a single internal NAND Flash chip. The 128KB NOR Flash is only used for bootloader functions; all other system software, including the kernel, is stored within the much larger NAND Flash.

I think diskless means no CD/DVD/floppy

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (1)

viperblades (576174) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505592)

Camcorder != computer

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (3, Informative)

updog (608318) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505593)

There's thousands of products which are "diskless devices" that don't require a server!! This is simply an embedded device - everything it needs is on flash memory.

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505669)

There is no need to reconcile those statements, they are not in conflict. What is wrong is your assumption that all internal storage requires a disk. I also don't see how the gentoo diskless howto for setting up a diskless PC applies to a Samsung device.

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505692)

It's a diskless camcorder, not a diskless workstation, you moron!

Re:Request for clarification on Diskless technolog (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506404)

so my old camcorder from last year is also a diskless recorder.

it uses tape :-)

C'mon (2, Funny)

pploco (694950) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505340)

Wheres the HD? Dump the "diskless" name and put a 40G in that thing.

Re:C'mon (1, Interesting)

bugbeak (711163) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505506)

Adding data into flash storage is significantly faster than adding data into a HD. Certainly, you don't want the damn thing to stop recording just so you can write into the hard disc first, then continue?

Re:C'mon (2, Insightful)

Mikmorg (624030) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505554)

Yea, some guys a while back figured out how to fix that. S'called RAM. Cheap 256M RAM stick would fix all of that unhappiness.

Re:C'mon (3, Insightful)

athakur999 (44340) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505758)

What type of Flash memory is significantly faster than a hard drive?

The highest end Flash memory I see at Sandisk's site writes at 20MB/s. This is on the lower end of what 2.5" notebook hard drives are capable of and well below what a 3.5" drive could do.

Re:C'mon (1)

wild_berry (448019) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505943)

TFA tells us that the processor can deal with up to 8MB/s of video. What need is there for an HD, apart from capacity?

Re:C'mon (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506105)

Adding data into flash storage is significantly faster than adding data into a HD. Certainly, you don't want the damn thing to stop recording just so you can write into the hard disc first, then continue?

Geez, and all this time I thought my MythTV box was recording video onto a hard drive. I guess it turns out I was just hallucinating or something. Boy, do I feel stupid now.

GSM please (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505367)

Now if they could only squeeze a GSM fone into that, it would be perfect.

In all seriousness why not? (1)

Mustang Matt (133426) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506009)

I'd love to have a single device that did it all. I already carry around a treo 300. Stick bluetooth on it and give me a wireless headset.

Re:GSM please (1)

mboverload (657893) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506332)

That was supposed to be a joke

Samsung's Linux-based Diskless Camcorder (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505410)

A dickless camcorder? what?

Of course it's faster... no managent... (3, Insightful)

datastalker (775227) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505426)

Since it has no MMU [wikipedia.org] . Without the overhead of actually having to manage the memory, it's got to be faster.

oh... (3, Funny)

ArmenTanzarian (210418) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505520)

I thought ARM-no-MMU was like handsfree, but without arms...

Not necessarily (3, Informative)

pslam (97660) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505620)

Since it has no MMU. Without the overhead of actually having to manage the memory, it's got to be faster.

This is not necessarily true. The difference in speed you'll get with a properly arranged MMU will be negligable. I hate SoC manufacturers who fall for this line of thinking and miss out the MMU "because it's not needed". It just makes development and debugging 10 times harder for a mostly negligable speed and power consumption gain.

Any SoC designers out there: please stop producing high spec CPUs without MMUs! You aren't doing anyone a favour.

Re:Of course it's faster... no managent... (1)

poot_rootbeer (188613) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506237)

Or maybe it's "no" as in the Japanese possessive modifier? "MMU of ARM"?

Re:Of course it's faster... no managent... (1)

Waffle Iron (339739) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506255)

Without the overhead of actually having to manage the memory, it's got to be faster.

If you remove the ability for hardware to virtually remap memory pages in real time, the software may have to physically move large blocks of data around to make room for new allocations, and many algorithms might need to be tediously written to explicitely relocate data if memory space becomes too fragmented. It might not be too long before the software overhead of a MMU-less system to outweigh the hardware overhead of a system with an MMU.

Convergence? YES PLEASE :) (1)

eyeye (653962) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505435)

Build a mobile phone and pda in it and then my pockets wont be so full.

Theres still the thorny problem of my keys and wallet though :(

Solution: (1)

Mikmorg (624030) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505651)

For keys: Use keyless entry doors, figure out a way to add an RF transmitter in the thing.

For wallet:
  • Cash: Who needs it?
  • Credit: Hmm.. still thinking. Maybe a lil gadget that lets you program a slide-out thin strip for different codes, storing each credit card's info appropriately? I'm sure theres a cool thing we could figure out.
  • Pictures: Done.
  • ID: eh... ok you might have to keep that on you... till the country decides to allow digital ID tags somehow... give that a few years, they'll prolly have embedded chips in everyones' arms or something. Technology + Gov't = limitless + crazy.

Re:Solution: (1)

eyeye (653962) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506382)

I agree those are good solutions, the problem is that keys are issued by different people, the apartment I rent, my keys for where I work, my car keys are all the way they are because of the purchasing choices of the people involved and I end up carrying the ragtag bunch of different keys around with me all with different shapes etc.

Your credit card idea has actually been invented I think, tbh though credit cards arent so much of a problem to me though - keys are my main bugbear as they poke me when I sit down and jangle when I walk.

Re:Convergence? YES PLEASE :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505749)

Bush and Blair killed 100,000. Bin laden killed 5000. Say no to ALL terrorists.
You, sir, are truly an idiot.

Re:Convergence? YES PLEASE :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506408)

Is that the best response you could think of mr coward?

I think it is :)

Re:Convergence? YES PLEASE :) (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505803)

"Bush and Blair killed 100,000."

That nice, round, ominous number has been regurgitated since the war started. I don't suppose you can provide any facts to back that number up, can you?

I am still not converged!!! (4, Funny)

TheNarrator (200498) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505446)

camcorder the size of a pack of cards that also works as a portable MP3 player, webcam, voice recorder, storage device, and more

Now if only this thing was a phone, a GPS and a PDA with 802.11 and GPRS internet access. Then maybe I'd consider buying it.

Voice transcription! (1)

argent (18001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506339)

I want voice transcription... until it can convert continuous speech to text (offline or in the background, and with training, are OK) voice recording is just annoying.

Flash cards? (1)

elid (672471) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505454)

Using flash cards for video might not be the best idea, considering the price of high capacity cards.

Re:Flash cards? (1)

raitchison (734047) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505673)

Especially since it uses Memory $tick for capacity expansion.

While TFA sasy that MS is "slightly" more expensive than other kinds of flash memory as someone who's owned a Sony digital camera I can say that only counts if you consider 20%-40% more expensive to be "slightly"

Still an interesting idea, and could be a lot more viable if the cost of flash memory drops significantly. One would think that not having a HD might improve battery life. (shrugs)

Video to SD cards in Panny now (1)

swb (14022) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505764)

The 3CCD consumer camera from Panny one up from mine will do MPEG4/WMV to SD memory. Since it's not my model, I forget if its crippled to 15FPS or not. But with a big enough card it would be meaningful.

But will it play ogg? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505455)

And will it have the blue starwipe of death and clippy like the MS version.

But does it work with Linux? (2, Funny)

sepluv (641107) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505484)

But does it run^Wwork with Linux?

Re:But does it work with Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505671)

Apparently... NO! :)

Probably Not *natively* (2, Informative)

reality-bytes (119275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505675)

I notice on the site it says it captures clips in an MPEG-4 QVGA format for playback with 'Windows Media Player'.

So it is probably using a proprietary Windows media codec for with there is no 'official' support under Linux.

You will, of course be able to play back / manipulate the video using 3rd party tools such as Mplayer/Mencoder which provide this sort of interoperability.

Imagine... (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505485)

..a Linux cluster of these things. It would simulate the compound eye of a bee!

Idiot (1)

jpardey (569633) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505695)

NEVE say linux cluster. If you want to keep with the troll program, it is A BEOWULF CLUSTER!

Re:Idiot (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505792)

Damn, it's been so long that I forgot the correct line. Anyway, my Beowolf cluster gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it.

Market penetration with HD (1)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505512)

Would it be possible to release a Linux-based HD camcroder for home use?
With iMovie coming out within a few months it would be a perfect opportunity to release an affordable home use HD camcorder and make it linux based.

But I'm guessing the OS is not the driving factor behind the cost, but rather hardware...

Re:Market penetration with HD (1)

Ironsides (739422) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506028)

Hardware generally is the driving cost as it takes a lot of processing to do decent real tiem encoding. TV stations pay a lot for equipment (though a chunk of it is for reliability). HD content would require more processing power to accomplish. As is, this camcorder falls into the "decent" level for recording quality. Recording 1 hour @ 1 Gig translates to about 2.25 Megabits/second. That is way below broadcast quality and what DVDs can achieve. (NOTE: I know DVDs can go below 2 Mbits, but software encoders do a better job than realtime hardware encoders.)

In short, Recording at Full D1 resolution is a great accomplishment. However, it's going to look like shit unless they can up the bitrate to at least 4 Mbps, even if they are using MPEG-4.

Re:Market penetration with HD (1)

Randy Rathbun (18851) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506060)

iMovie has been out on the store shelves a week tomorrow. Those of us that pre-ordered got it a week ago today.

Re:Market penetration with HD (1)

Tibor the Hun (143056) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506109)

oh yeah,
well where are the torrents?!

ARM-no-MMU the same as uClinux? (1)

updog (608318) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505517)

Samsung that will run a new variation of Linux called 'ARM-no-MMU.'

Isn't ARM-no-MMU the same as uClinux? If so, it's hardly new - uClinux [uclinux.org] started in 1998.

Re:ARM-no-MMU the same as uClinux? (4, Informative)

soramimicake (593421) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505579)

The 'white paper written by Samsung' mentioned in the submission is titled 'Context Switching and IPC Performance Comparison between uClinux and Linux on the ARM9 based Processor'. So it is indeed uClinux.

Re:ARM-no-MMU the same as uClinux? (1)

kry10 (166308) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505586)

Check out the bottom of the article:

"The Miniket runs a uClinux/ARM 2.6 kernel based in part on the uClinux/ARM 2.6 project, which Choi leads. According to Choi, the project used the Samsung S5C737x SoC as its primary target processor, and all the GPL'd parts of the kernel used in the Miniket are available for download from the project site. The Miniket is the first of several Samsung products that will be based on an "ARM-no-MMU" uClinux kernel."

Hurry! (-1, Troll)

unixbugs (654234) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505542)

Go buy more stuff!

It will wind up in a pawn shop after someone steals it anyway, if it doesnt break first from someone sneezing near it.

Where is the source code? I bet they saved a ton on R & D. It probably took them a day to hack up the kernel and fit in their cheap hardware and a week to find(fix?) the bugs. $700? That thing better check my mail, call mom, and walk the dog! Where is the source???? What if it panics on me and I need to fix it?? Send it off, wait 6 months only to find out it fell off the boat into the pacific?

Seriously though, its great that theyre not spending money on crapware that would ultimately raise the price of the product, but I still disagree with the premise of buying in to planned obsolescence.

Sorry - it just pisses me off to picture some dork plugging into an XP box not knowing a damn thing about whats going on inside either machine.

Woah (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505597)

Switch to decaf, buddy.

Re:Hurry! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505785)

Sorry - it just pisses me off to picture some dork plugging into an XP box not knowing a damn thing about whats going on inside either machine.

Am I to presume, then, that you are a certified expert with regards to every machine you have ever touched before? Like your car, you don't have to understand how every piston, gear and circuit works in order to use it effectively.

Excellent trolling, though.

Re:Hurry! (1)

mythosaz (572040) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505794)

The AC already suggested you switch to decaf, and...he's right. There are plenty of decaffineated brands on the market that are just as tasty as the real thing.

That said, us 'xp dorks' don't *want* or *care* what's running inside of it. We want to plug in our to the machine and we want it to work. We want to take pictures and videos, and then we want to plug it in to our computer, and we want the media to magically appear. If you feel like checking the 'expert' box, go ahead.

While it's nify that it runs *nix, these devices should be easy to use, and we don't much care if they run on a beowulf cluster of tiny gnomes.

Re:Hurry! (1)

characters42 (810242) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506394)

That said, us 'xp dorks' don't *want* or *care* what's running inside of it. What do you expect while reading "news for nerds"? Hmmm - you sound like somebody reading the Wall Street Journal and then complaining the they only talk about economics... ;-)

Please (1)

abigor (540274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506116)

And I'm sure it pisses off other people when they think that you put your key into the ignition in your car without knowing every last detail of your fuel injection system and the precise gear ratios in your transmission.

People buy products to do useful, fun things. Companies like Samsung make money off said people and pay their employees.

And I'm certain the kernel source is available. So relax.

nothing new? (2, Informative)

PW2 (410411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505563)

I bought a little camcorder from HSN about 8 months ago for $140 that records to SD. It did voice recording / MP3 playback / still / MP4 video recording. -- it's a little larger than a stack of 40 credit cards.

Re:nothing new? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506102)

And we all know just how high 40 creditcards are off the top of our heads.

Re:nothing new? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506222)

And in other vague references....My car gets 40 rods to the hogshead. Wait here for 80 moments and I'll be right back. The reciever ran 50 fathums for the touchdown.

I wonder... (2, Informative)

vought (160908) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505601)

If this is using something like Portal Player's 5002/5003 chips? Those "media chips" were based around a dual ARM core.

diskless? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505608)

ok good.. i just misread that a little

Windows Media Player? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505635)

If it's running linux, how come the flash site shows it running windows media player to play back your videos?

but is it Linux? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505657)

If you go through the flash animation and look at the "Easy Playback" option, there is a Windows Media Player shown in the LCD screen. So is it running Linux or Windows?

I have not had luck with Samsung during dry winter (2, Informative)

MrJerryNormandinSir (197432) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505680)

Hi,

I don't know about you but I haven had luck with samsung. I own a samsung minidv camcorder and a cuircuit board blew up within 18 months of owning it. The LCD and viewfinder screens have no video, just backlight is on. It charges, and plays, but that's it. If samsung would take my old scd80 and
send me one of these new digital camcorders running linux I would forgive them and buy other samsung products... but for now i would not buy another samsung product because I am not convinced that they last.

Re:I have not had luck with Samsung during dry win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505711)

Just to ask, what's with the "during dry winter"? Your subject line sounds like a spam header.

Re:I have not had luck with Samsung during dry win (1)

owlstead (636356) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505837)

Yeez, lucky we have consumer rights here in Europe. 1,5 years of usage is not within the time-frame you would expect from such a product (say, 5 years) and you would get at least 80% reimbursed here in the Netherlands (probably in the form of a refurbished camcorder). That is, if you make a case out of it. Cracks would be a bit more troublesome, since you might have destroyed it yourself.

Another problem with your posting is that it is a single incident, and we cannot be sure if this happens a lot, if you actually owned this camcorder or even if you are really MrJerry. Ok, I'll take the last 2 for granted, but its difficult to create a graph from a test of one out of one. But I bet it's still frustrating for you.

Re:I have not had luck with Samsung during dry win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505909)

It's odd because their 1 year on-site repair in the UK is really odd.

You probably just got a duff product. Have you got in contact with them about it?

Re:I have not had luck with Samsung during dry win (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505939)

I'm ill:

** is really good, and shows that they trust their products.

How long (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505681)


till i get this functionality on my cellphone ?

i can already record video clips as it is (1gb card p910i) but the resolution is terrible at the moment, of course that will get better with time
while a cellphone based video cam will never replace a pro-sumer (interchangable lenses 3ccd etc) for your home movies i can see more convergance into the cell'media'device

-AJS

Damn Proprietary Memory (2, Insightful)

Analogy Man (601298) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505699)

Why don't they used Compact Flash or Secure Digital rather than the damn Sony proprietary junk?

Re:Damn Proprietary Memory (2, Insightful)

DrWho520 (655973) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506082)

Why don't they used Compact Flash or Secure Digital rather than the damn Sony proprietary junk?

My sentiments exactly. I alread have a number of SD cards as my existing digital camera uses them. Thought I would not call memory stick proprietary junk, they are more expensive per MB in larger sizes than CF or SD. I was also a little put off by their statement of exporting the media files to WMP or a Samsung DVD recorder. It is an MPEG4 based codec, so I will assume it is playable else where. Finally, where is the firewire? Come on, Samsung! I guess more people have USB 2.0 than firewire. Oh well, pretty neat device all told. I will not be picking one up, but still pretty neat.

Faster, better OS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11505781)

I have posted a few times on slashdot about using a safe, object-oriented language for the operating system. This lots of advantages, like that the OS code can be very much simpler (most of the complexity in the UNIX kernels is getting memory correct and using procedural approaches for problems that it shouldn't be used for (ie, network stack for example). Or that user programs can run in the same memory space as the kernel without any problems. Or that you can get microkernel-like safe device drivers without the performance penalty. Or that a rich API with callbacks into apps from the kernel are possible (like having Java standard library as the OS).

So I tell people this could actually be faster, and some lamer always posts a reply saying basically "moron". Never mind that I have done lots of kernel programming on bsd and some on linux.

Now this comparison says that by turning off the MMU they got 5x better performance on a FIFO benchmark and 2x better performance on a pipe benchmark (context switch time in 10x faster).

So take that, anonymous nay-sayer. An object-oriented, safe language used to make an operating system would make a faster, simpler, and better OS.

Poor choice for memory card (4, Insightful)

DigitalDragon (194314) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505789)

Memory Stick! Bleh.

I wonder what made them make such a poor choice. The right choice would have been to go with Compact Flash or SD, if you want smaller.
Memory stick is still a Sony bound product (I know that now there are other manufacturers) and underperforms other cards, since there's no such fierce competition.

I see this as a big minus.

Re:Poor choice for memory card (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505921)

Its a speed issue. Sony designed the memory stick format to be able to handle 160Mbps sustained with the intention of using it for video. While Secure Digital can get up to the same speeds it is a burst speed used for saving single files fast rather then for streaming data.

Re:Poor choice for memory card (1)

kelnos (564113) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506190)

What *is* the sustained read/write rate for CF or SD? TFA says that the CPU in this thing can handle 8MB/s of video (64Mbps), so as long as CF or SD can handle that, it should be fine. Probably the real reason is what one of the other replies to the grandparent says: it's because Samsung has a business relationship with Sony.

Re:Poor choice for memory card (1)

Kenja (541830) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506275)

"What *is* the sustained read/write rate for CF or SD? TFA says that the CPU in this thing can handle 8MB/s of video (64Mbps), so as long as CF or SD can handle that, it should be fine. Probably the real reason is what one of the other replies to the grandparent says: it's because Samsung has a business relationship with Sony."

It varries from manufacturer to manufacturer. So I would guess that they went with the memory sticks becuase there is a standard that sets a transfer rate at an exceptable level. Rather then having the performance of the device shift depending on whos CF/SD card you chose.

Re:Poor choice for memory card (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506164)

Which is exactly why I purchased Panasonic's version which uses SD. Even better I can record a show off TV and watch the following morning on the way to work. No more missing Futurama for me! http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servle t/vModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11251&catalogI d=11005&itemId=68138&catGroupId=17169&modelNo=SV-A V50S&surfModel=SV-AV50S [panasonic.com]

Isn't 'ARM-no-MMU' Just uClinux? (1)

yacitus (854229) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505808)

...is the first of several products from Samsung that will run a new variation of Linux called 'ARM-no-MMU.'

The LinuxDevices white paper seems to imply that 'ARM-no-MMU' is uClinux. That's not a new variation.

Hopefully Samsung won't repeat Panasonic's mistake (2, Interesting)

PortHaven (242123) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505823)

Panasonic released a similar device with their d-snap AV-50S

However, the video is not truly MPEG4 as they encapsulate the file in a proprietary .ASF file format preventing you from being able to easily share the movies.

Secondly, the voice recorder files cannot be played back on your PC (only on the camcorder device which is limited to about 1 hour battery). Nor do they give you a tool to convert them from their proprietary format to a standard .wav or .mp3

http://www.easternstorm.net/dsnap for more info on these matters.

Just say no to no MMU (1, Interesting)

Animats (122034) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505831)

No-MMU systems should be restricted to applications where the processor costs a few dollars or less and all the code is in permanent read-only memory. Something that costs a few hundred dollars and runs Linux should have an MMU.

It's amazing... (1)

JayJay.br (206867) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505834)

...that there actually is a version of Linux that does not use a MMU (this "ARM-no-MMU" is based on uClinux, AFAICT, which is a non-MMU distro for embedded devices).

IIRC, Linux was born exactly as a study of the capabilities of the 386 processor's MMU.

Now that is change... this should be the most extreme fork from the original project (which is not bad, I'm just amazed by the diversity Linux is promoting)

Pathetic (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505882)

for 700$ it records movies in 15fps, photos in 800x600 and it has only one gig for mp3...
Too expensive.

Re:Pathetic (1)

Schweg (730121) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506081)

It's not as bad as you make it out to be, the description listed video capture at 720x480 30fps. Also note that it has an optical 10x zoom with image stabilization, usually not cheap items to implement.

I agree about the low resolution on video capture, and wish that they had chosen CompactFlash Type 2 for the external storage, since then you could use a microdrive with several gigabytes of storage.

Re:Pathetic (3, Informative)

exhilaration (587191) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506340)

The Canon S1 IS [canon.com] has 10X optical zoom, image stabilization, 30fps 640x480 movies, 3.2 MP still shots, and uses CF cards - all for around $300 [google.com] . Check out this review [steves-digicams.com] .

Re:Pathetic (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506267)

From TFA:

Miniket can capture D1-resolution video (720 x 480, the same resolution as DVDs) at 30 frames/sec, with audio

The 1GB version stores an hour of DVD quality video at 30fps... for $600-$700.. that sounds fair to me.

codec? (1)

seven5 (596044) | more than 9 years ago | (#11505977)

i'm curious about what codec this is using. Is it using Ms's mpeg-4 codec (ASF) or is it using a more standard mpeg4 codec?

Just this week i have been researching these mini cams, and this one looks like the ticket. But i want to make sure it will work with iMovie HD now that it is able to edit mpeg4 vids.

Anyone have any insight on this?

Let me know what you find out (1)

Mustang Matt (133426) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506073)

I've been researching them this week too.

This one has caught my interest. The idea of carrying a few memory sticks in my pocket to offload to the laptop every night is appealing.

Camcorder - easy playback feature (2, Insightful)

cpaalman (696554) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506014)

Is this a limitation or am I just not understanding the statement?

"Playback Fast-Forware and Rewind up to a maximum of 128 times."

"Files created with our Minikit are designed for playback with the included software and our DVD Recorders."

Can their files be exported to a format that I can playback in a program of MY choice? What can't I use my DVD recorder? I don't need another one from them.

Hmm... like most things, looks good 'till you peel back the layers.

Re:Camcorder - easy playback feature (1)

gcanyon (458998) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506309)

I was caught by that as well. I think they mean that it can fast forward or reverse at up to 128x normal speed. Don't know about export...

Re:Camcorder - easy playback feature (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506396)

I would assume the 128 times means you can fast-forward and rewind at 128x speed.

Linux Devices Commentry is junk! (1)

Ion Berkley (35404) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506057)

Come one, and I quote " This is because research at Samsung showed that context switches and IPCs (inter-process communications) are faster under uClinux on processors that have virtually indexed caches and a TLB (translation lookaside buffer) without address space tags."
That is exactly what this piece of "research" said wasn't true!
And I say "research" because whilst I heartily approve of any engineer quantifying any theory, this is not rocket science, every embeded OS developer understands this point.
Most embeded deivces use CPU's with MMU's, for example every cell phone that has an ARM7b running the call control stack would account for several hundered million examples....
Not to be down on what looks like a god product.

But does it run Linux ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506111)

Oh, wait....well I guess that's the end of this thread then.

I don't get it. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11506211)

These companies...why are they after linux? I mean if it's for the free-ness (beer), why not go for BSD? They certainly don't promote opensource, do you really think I will have all the tools to make my own applications for this device?

While I'm here -> my ideal device:
Size of an ipod (or a lil' bigger).
20gig minimum HD.
Tri-band GSM phone.
400+mhz arm processor.
Audio in/out.
Sharp cl-3000 like Display on top.
USB2 or firewire.
A jog wheel on the side along with some buttons.
A wired headphone remote with 3 buttons and a wheel (like the ipod wheel. Come on, I have a few ideas that will work *just* as well as the ipod's, innovate companies innovate!).
Basic mp3/video/audio recording/pda software on top of some linux.
(No thumbpad or stupid stuff like that...)

Some company do this....and you will make some money. If you put the work in and make the software kick-ass-out-of-the-box, you'll make millions. I'll buy one and so will my friends. And we will all code for it like mad.

On behalf of all the Anonymous Cowards who are too lazy to register.

Linux and the GPL Stifles Innovation! (1)

w4rh0g (609313) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506282)

So so says MS. And this proves it.... Oh damn! Perhaps closed source/copyrights are stifling innovation, preventing inventors and entrepenuers from rapidly exploring new ideas.

Camcorderless Linux? (3, Insightful)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11506289)

If they've got the kernel to go faster, where's the source code? Don't they have to publish their diffs (under GPL), since they're distributing the new OS version with every camera?
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