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Solaris 10 Released

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the a-siren-lost dept.

Sun Microsystems 478

AusG4 writes "Sun Microsystems has released Solaris 10 for both SPARC and Intel/Opteron. Downloading it is the usual 'register and get your free license' meandering; the Intel/Opteron version is 4 CDs and an optional language and companion disc (a bunch of pre-compiled GNU software in pkgadd format, I'm assuming, same as Solaris 8 and 9)."

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OMG SO EXCITING! assmunches (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538083)

WE SHOULD all use solaris lolz rockz0rz

Ummm....Linux rules suck my cock you peniz faggorz.

Re:OMG SO EXCITING! assmunches (-1, Troll)

bomjolo (840315) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538090)

Who let the d00dz out? h4x, h4x, h4x h4x h4x!

Re:OMG SO EXCITING! assmunches (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538096)

You is teh fuxwit

FREE TEEKID! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538148)

Free teekid! First Amendment Bush is oppression hack rights noq!

Cheap Sun hardware (2, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538086)

and the best place to get your Sun hardware: Anysystem.com [anysystem.com]

Re:Cheap Sun hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538121)

Anysystem.com has never been cheap, nor will it ever be. I wonder how that site stays alive.

Re:Cheap Sun hardware (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538131)

Hey, they've always been good to me... don't shoot the messenger.

what i wanna know is... (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538087)

does it run bsd?

The hole in our Apple theories (5, Interesting)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538089)

Everyone around here keeps saying that Apple should get out of the PPC business and get into licensing OSX for the Intel x86 procs. They argue that selling the software is more lucrative than selling the hardware.

I think that Sun is providing us with a very good example of the opposite being true. Even though they literally give their product away for free, they still make money on their hardware. Apple would be fools to give up the high-margin hardware market and try to compete toe to toe with Microsoft Windows.

Re:The hole in our Apple theories (0, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538110)

There are three kinds of people buying Apple computers. There are the OS interface junkies who love the "look and feel" of the interface. There are the media workers who buy Apple simply because it's still the industry standard in that field, in the same way that office workers invariably use MS Office. Finally, there are those who have been seduced by coloured, translucent plastic.

If OS X for x86 was available, I'd be willing to bet that a large proportion of the first two groups would immediately jump ship over to cheaper hardware. Mac OS hardware is nice (The G4 is a great chip) but being realistic, price is king.

The question, therefore, is whether the increased revenue in OS sales would compensate for the losses in hardware revenues. Personally, I'm not sure. Spoiler alert -- Charlie, the villain, is actually David's (Robert DeNiro's) split personality.

When it comes down to it, though, Apple won't listen to what we say. Pretty much every major decision will depend on what Steve thinks, and I don't think Steve likes the idea of open hardware - historically, he's shown himself to be very sensitive to physical appearance (the original mac classic, the iMac, the cube) and I suspect that he just doesn't want his lovely OS X running on ugly grey boxes. :)

Re:The hole in our Apple theories (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538260)

Wow, other than giving a glimpse of what a fucked imagine you have of Apple, OS X, and the tens of millions of users out there, what was the point of all that stuff your wrote?

Re:The hole in our Apple theories (2, Funny)

immerrath (607098) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538363)

Mod this guy down: he has a spoiler in his comment!

Re:The hole in our Apple theories (4, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538228)

I disagree, I work at Apple. Here's the deal... even though we do sell to the business market our main focus is the home user. Yes, we make servers and Xsan, BUT our main market is home user and it always has been. Sun's market is purely business class IT infrastructure, always has been. So comparing the two is irrational. Now that's not to say that we should stop using power PC chips and making hardware; our hardware is beautiful. I think that if we released OS X on a intel /intel clone platform that our operating system being a user friendly unix, that is spyware free, adware free, virtually bug free, and virtually virus free would knock Microsoft's market share out of the water. The cool thing about OS X is it's feature rich enough that any coder, admin, or hacker can use it (BASH shell HELLO!) but easy enough that a 70 plus grandmother can use it. Just like our slogan says, "It just works". Now as you probably know OS X was based on NeXT's platform and it ran on Intel 486 (in addition to other processors) So it's not like "we" haven't done it before. What I think is keeping "us" out of the market is the little matter of 150 million Microsoft dollars that saved us back in '97. I think one of the terms of that hidden agreement was a non-compete clauses. I think we are bound to stay of Intel clone architecture. I mean why else? There's money in software; just ask Bill Gates.

Re:The hole in our Apple theories (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538310)

You work for Apple? I find that about as likely as Frankie (Eastwood) ultimately resisting Maggie's (Swank's) entreaties to help her commit suicide after the fight that rendered her paraplegic. In other words, highly unlikely.

Piffle (3, Insightful)

onyxruby (118189) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538273)

Last I checked Microsoft made a fortune selling the OS instead of hardware. Hardware is cut throat with incredibly margins whereas with Operating Systems your margins are incredibly high. The only reason at all Sun or Apple can make decent margins on their hardware is because they are the sole providers of their proprietary systems.

Sun simply isn't [theregister.com] making the money that you think it is.

Re:The hole in our Apple theories [winhat] (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538282)

Apple has always been about steve jobs. Imagination is more lucrative than selling the hardware.

The sun is the lowest portion of the opposite being true. The druids were ancient celtic priests. Their group still exists today in secret, despite the existence of charlatan groups claiming to be free. Scott simply wants to be free. He simply wants to be free. He simply wants to support microsoft anyways?

They argue that selling the hardware.

Re:The hole in our Apple theories (1)

tod_miller (792541) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538358)

I agree and disagree, sun and apple should take a page out of each others books.

Sun should release some hardware, for sure, and some pretty decent and funky stuff soon. I want Sun to be at the forefront of Java enabled devices. They have manuf. facilities, and they need to move fast.

Solaris cannot compete against linux for home users (i.e. it doesn't differeantiate enough for home usage, just critical apps / support requirements / specialist software) so Sun realise that ensuring the market for it is good. I personally I sticking Solaris 10 as a server on my first available box.

Panther on the other hand can compete against winXP because of the software, the hype, and the interface (Konfabs etc, plus WinXP skinned is still CR@P! zyShadow is funky though).

So Mac *could* release intel software, but then would make less beneficial thier hardware platform (think apple-mac means wintel really).

So Sun needs some consumer based products, like an iPod (but I am thinking a gaming device... with PJava chips... hardware java bytecode profiling etc... opengl support... who knows?)

Apple need to keep on doing what they are doing, thier rise in the media has been fantastic. I want a mac mini (don't bother posting your free mac-mini BS links)

That is all

Solaris for Opteron? That's nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538091)

Is it fully 64-bit?

If it is, I think I'll try installing Solaris 10 today on my Opteron!

Re:Solaris for Opteron? That's nice (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538094)

Yep, it's been fully 64-bit since time immemorial.

Re:Solaris for Opteron? That's nice (1)

avidday (671814) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538345)

No it hasn't. Neither Solaris x86 8 or 9 supported EMT-64 / AMD x86-64 natively, only IA-32, and Sun's Solaris customers using Opterons have been running them in 32 bit compatibility mode. I presume that they now have a native 64 bit x86 kernel, but they certainly didn't with previous Solaris x86 releases.

Cool. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538095)

It must have been 8 years since I tried Solaris, but now that it's free I might give it another go. And if I like it, I'll keep it.

See, this is the best way to distribute an OS.

Give away the OS, sell apps instead. (You listening, Microsoft?)

Re:Cool. (2)

Dr.Opveter (806649) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538155)

See, this is the best way to distribute an OS.

Give away the OS, sell apps instead. (You listening, Microsoft?)


Thing is, when you buy XP you get pretty much all a regular user wants already. You got Wordpad which is good enough to read/write docs, Internet Explorer, Outlook Express and MSN Messenger to do your stuff online, a nice picture viewer, media player..(i know you also get plenty of spyware/virus with the above programs but you can get free non-MS replacements anyway)

So how is Microsoft supposed to make money from selling apps to home users then?

Re:Cool. (1)

mboverload (657893) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538247)

Microsoft would not be able to due to the amount of freeware around. I replace alot of things on my computer, even notepad with a more able program (metapad). Give me a bare Windows install without all the crap and I can make it into a highly customized, stable platform.

Re:Cool. (1)

Megaslow (694447) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538248)

when you buy XP you get...Wordpad...Internet Explorer...Outlook Express...MSN Messenger...picture viewer...media player

Here's an idea -- stop bundling all that shit with the OS!

Re:Cool. (1)

skurk (78980) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538275)

So how is Microsoft supposed to make money from selling apps to home users then?

Actually, the AC has a point.

I'd love a free version of Windows, since all I use Windows for is Counter-Strike. I don't use IE, I use FireFox and Opera. My Linux server provides me with mutt for email, and I never used Windows Movie Maker. OpenOffice takes care of all my office needs.

Give the OS away for free, and sell the apps. It's an excellent idea.

Free Software (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538102)

a bunch of pre-compiled GNU software in pkgadd format, I'm assuming, same as Solaris 8 and 9

I rememebr that Solaris 9 used to come with both Gnome and KDE.
The problem though is that these were not quite stable on an Ultra60 3D WS, I hope this got better because there's nothing as unconfortable as their CDE GUI.

Re:Free Software (2, Interesting)

zdzichu (100333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538117)

GNOME is now official Solaris GUI, so you don't have to tire your eyes with CDE.

Re:Free Software (1)

mirko (198274) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538146)

What about KDE, did they fix it or dump it ?

Re:Free Software (1, Informative)

PygmySurfer (442860) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538267)

What about KDE, did they fix it or dump it ?

I don't think KDE was ever included with Solaris. CDE, OpenWindows, and eventually GNOME are the only environments that have ever shipped with Solaris, AFAIK.

Re:Free Software (2, Informative)

oojah (113006) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538289)

Fix it how?

I use the KDE packages from blastwave.org and haven't had any problems.

Cheers,

Roger

UNIX vs. LINUX? (1, Interesting)

SauroNlord (707570) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538104)

I am thinking about installing this version of solaris on my machine...what do you guys think?

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (1)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538136)

Well if you don't know anything about it, put it on another machine or do it in VMWare, because you may not like it.

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538141)

I think you should think for yourself instead of letting everyone else tell you what to do

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538153)

Don't listen to either of these guys. Listen to me.

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (1)

skurk (78980) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538151)

I'm thinking "go ahead". I'll do the same thing tonight.

If you don't want to delete your Windows or Linux partitions, you can probably run Solaris inside a VM, like VMWare [vmware.com] .

The main reason I'm installing Solaris is to test the cross-platform compability on the programs I develop. But who knows, maybe I'll fall in love with it.. :-)

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (1)

benrockwood (855211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538152)

Give it a shot! Bear in mind that driver support is driven toward servers on X86 and if you have a newish l337 workstation your probly going to be upset at the lack of driver support for all your l337 gear. This is why OpenSolaris is going to be really really kool, we'll finally be able to help Sun fill in a lot of missing driver support on X86 among other things (Portage on Solaris!).

What you'll lack in drivers you'll make up for with DTrace, Zones, and the new SMF (RC Init replacement, try the "svcs" command).

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538171)

Portage on Solaris? NetBSD pkgsrc [netbsd.org] already provides 5,300 packages ready to build on Solaris.

-Install Solaris
-Install gcc
-Install pkgsrc
-'make install' your desired package
-Enjoy

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538157)

I think you should stop asking stupid questions. Just do it!

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (3, Informative)

DNS-and-BIND (461968) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538165)

Don't.

And if you really, seriously want to do it, for the love of God check the hardware compatibility list [sun.com] and save the rest of us a million questions about why Solaris won't work on your PC. Simple - if the hardware's not on the list, Solaris won't work with it! Really! Sun's not lying in their document.

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538173)

Yeah... why would i install linux if i get better recent hardware software and more software on windows?

Re:UNIX vs. LINUX? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538231)

I like the one with the penguin whichever one that is. And the devil guy.

Don't mislead people (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538113)

Solaris is no longer available for "SPARC" systems, only UltraSPARC systems. It no longer supports sun4m or sun4d.

Re:Don't mislead people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538202)

Solaris is no longer available for "SPARC" systems, only UltraSPARC systems
It works just fine on Fujitsu Sparc64.

It no longer supports sun4m or sun4d
Windows XP doesn't work on an XT or a 286 either :)

Re:Don't mislead people (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538229)

It works just fine on Fujitsu Sparc64.

Eh.. It's still a sparcv9. You nitpick!

Re:Don't mislead people (1)

clymere (605769) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538243)

good point. I have 3 sun4m machines. I considered downloading the sparc version of sol10 just to see if it would run, even if in an extremely stripped down install. Thanks for saving me the trouble ;)

Nightmare for MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538119)

I think the important point here is that MS now has TWO Open Source operating systems to fight instead of one.

Re:Nightmare for MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538133)

the road up and down is both one and the same. ms will just count everything open source as one enemy. makes it easier to think.

Re:Nightmare for MS (1)

PygmySurfer (442860) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538319)

I think the important point here is that MS now has TWO Open Source operating systems to fight instead of one.

Two? What about the wonderful BSDs I've been using for years?

Re:Nightmare for MS (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538335)

I think the important point here is that MS now has TWO Open Source operating systems to fight instead of one.

Two? What about the wonderful BSDs I've been using for years?


I don't think MS was ever worried about BSD :)

Something to play with (1)

Zinic (780666) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538129)

Personally, I've been waiting for Solaris 10 to come out for quite a long time now. I'm looking to make it my main file server and such, replacing the current Linux system I'm running. Don't get me wrong, I love Linux but I'm dying to see what Solaris is like. If anything though it's something new to play with!

Re:Something to play with (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538222)

Maybe I missed something, or you guys are smoking something, because I downloaded Solaris 10 from the Sun site at the end of November.

Re:Something to play with (2, Interesting)

Darkon (206829) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538323)

Maybe I missed something, or you guys are smoking something, because I downloaded Solaris 10 from the Sun site at the end of November.

You downloaded 'Solaris Express', which is a kind of rolling beta release they put out. What the article links to is the real deal release version.

License summary anyone? (2, Interesting)

Vo0k (760020) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538164)

I'm really curious what the license limitations are. That is - can I use it for commercial purposes? Can I modify / reverse engineer it? Can I redistribute it?

Re:License summary anyone? (4, Informative)

LeninZhiv (464864) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538196)

Have a gander: (Basically I think the answers are "yes", "wait for the source code, this is a binary distribution", and "I don't think so".)

ENTITLEMENT for
SOLARIS 10 3/05 OPERATING SYSTEM

THIS ENTITLEMENT EVIDENCES YOUR AUTHORIZED SCOPE OF USE UNDER THE TERMS
OF THE SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR THE SUN SOFTWARE
INDICATED BELOW (THE SLA) UNLESS OTHERWISE AGREED IN WRITING BETWEEN YOU AND
SUN MICROSYSTEMS, INC. (SUN). Capitalized terms not defined in this document
have the meanings ascribed to them in the SLA. These terms will
supersede any inconsistent or conflicting terms in the SLA.

Licensee/Company: Entity in receipt of Software from an authorized source
Beginning Date of License Term: the date of receipt of this Entitlement
Software: Solaris 10 3/05
Permitted Use: Commercial Use
License Term: Perpetual (subject to termination under the SLA)
Licensed Unit: Registered Computer System
Licensed unit Count: Unlimited
Additional Terms:

1.0 License to Develop. You are authorized to develop software programs
utilizing Software. If you desire to develop software programs which
incorporate portions of Software ("Developed Programs"), the following
provisions apply: (i) you may not modify or add to application programming
interfaces associated with Software; (ii) you are not licensed to use fonts
within Software to develop printing applications unless you have secured valid
licenses from the appropriate font suppliers; (iii) incorporation of portions of
Motif in Developed Programs may require reporting of copies of Developed
Programs to Sun;
and (iv) you will indemnify and defend Sun and its licensors from any
claims, including attorneys' fees, which arise from or relate to distribution or
use of Developed Programs to the extent these claims arise from or relate to the
development performed by you. This Section 1.0 does not apply to the Sun Java
System Application Server Platform Edition 8, Sun Java System Message
Queue 3.5, Sun Java System Directory Server 5, and Java 2 Platform, Standard
Edition (J2SE) included in or bundled with the Software.
2.0 Sun Java Studio Enterprise for Evaluation Only. You may only use the Java
Studio Enterprise (Studio) bundled or embedded with the Sun Java System
Application Server Standard Edition portions of Software for Evaluation Use
unless you purchase a separate license from Sun. Studio may contain a time out
mechanism.

3.0 Sun Java System Directory Server 5. This Section 3.0 applies only
to the Sun Java System Directory Server 5 portion of the Software.
3.1. Definitions.
(a) "Directory Instance(s)" means an instance of the Sun Java System
Directory Server process, slapd, running on a server.
(b) "Entry(ies)" means a single Distinguished Name ("DN") and its
associated attributes.
(c) "Enterprise Wide" means your entire enterprise network.
3.2 License Grant. Sun grants you a non-exclusive and non-transferable
license
for the internal use only of Sun Java System Directory Server 5 (Directory
Server) (where you control, manage, configure and otherwise use the software)
for your internal business use and not for resale or redistribution in any
manner and only for the number of Entries for which the corresponding
fee has been paid. Subject to the limitations of the previous sentence, you may
provide services with Directory Server to users outside of your commercial legal
entity, if any; provided that you may not permit any such user to control, manage or
configure Directory Server.
3.3 Additional Use Conditions.
(a) Directory Server may contain, at no charge, up to an aggregate maximum of
200,000 Entries, across any and all Directory Instances running
Enterprise Wide.
For the purposes of this Section 3.3(a) only, Entries exclude Solaris 10
operating system entries that do not define users.
(b) You may install and run multiple instances of the Sun Java System
Directory Server Console client on multiple computers and platforms for remote
and distributed administration of servers and applications.

One HUGE kudos to SUN. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538172)

They called it Solaris 10.
They didn't call it Solaris X.

(Actually, according to the old namespace, it's SunOS 2.10.1)

Re:One HUGE kudos to SUN. (1)

Zeddicus_Z (214454) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538308)

Actually the namespace is 5.X (and thus Sol10 is 5.10)

2.x finished when Sun relegated "SunOS" to technical use and came out with the "Solaris" monkier for marketing purposes.

Multiple OS support? (3, Interesting)

RatRagout (756522) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538181)

Can I install this version without killing my other operating systems?

Re:Multiple OS support? (4, Informative)

LeninZhiv (464864) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538339)

Yes, but (unless things have changed since beta69; my download is still in progress), it's not as idiot-proof as installing Solaris 9 was. (Although the hardware support is much better, so the chances of this working on your machine are way higher than with Solaris 9).

It's also surprisingly easy to kill your other operating systems when you install though, so do your homework. (Google "dual-boot" "Solaris 10" etc. and keep reading till you're sure you've filled in all the gaps, and back up just in case). Also of course have a copy of Knoppix and your bootloader configuration around.

Solaris Zones vs User Mode Linux (3, Informative)

KidSock (150684) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538187)

Currently I'm using a UML provider for my website / email / etc. I will be very interesting to see if Solaris 10 Zones perform better. If they do ISPs might provide more power per $.

Re:Solaris Zones vs User Mode Linux (2, Informative)

graf0z (464763) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538298)

Currently I'm using a UML provider for my website / email / etc. I will be very interesting to see if Solaris 10 Zones perform better.

I am currently using UML for running multiple servers on one host, and a collegue runs multiple linuces with XEN [cam.ac.uk] (he runs it on his desktop, too!), and he says it performs near to native. He demonstrated it to me, very impressive. Easier to administrate than UML. I'll switch to xen. And ISPs will, too.

I'll check opensolaris when it's ported to the xen-arch like netbsd and -soon- freebsd.

/graf0z.

Re:Solaris Zones vs User Mode Linux (1)

gtoomey (528943) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538300)

I'm using linode.com [linode.com] for the same thing. Solaris zones look to be better implemented than virtuozzo [sw-soft.com] .

If Sun can provide a full-featured OS, the slickness of SUSE (easy package management/admin gui), good range of drivers (including nvidia/nforce) then ISPs may well run Solaris.

i want to know (1)

harlemjoe (304815) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538189)

I've never understood the significant advantages of branded *nixes over BSD and linux.

What are the advantages of Solaris over, say, SuSe?

My school runs Solaris, and I find it to be a solid *nix, but why would anyone pay (a large sum of) money for it?

Extend the argument for AIX and HPUX as well...

IMHO this is a good strategy by Sun to keep their OS alive...

Re:i want to know (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538239)

People who are paying large amounts of money for Solaris are doing so because they want hardware and software support from Sun. If something goes wrong, they can have a Sun technician on site in a day. Can you have a Linux kernel programmer on site in a day if your system is repeatedly crashing? Probably not, unless you write out checks directly to him :)

Re:i want to know (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538240)

I thinks it isn't so much a matter of Linux vs UNIX. What people need to realise is that MS has now got an even bigger Open Source fire to fight.

Sun provides a summary of the new features here:
http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/10/top1 0.jsp

My school runs Solaris, and I find it to be a solid *nix, but why would anyone pay (a large sum of) money for it?

You don't have to pay anything unless you want 24x7 support. You can use the free version for commercial purposes! SOLARIS 10 IS FREE (as in speech AND beer).

Bill Gates is going to be feeling very ill tonight. Windows Server 2003 just got dwarfed into the stone age.

Linux vs, branded *nix? (5, Insightful)

Savage-Rabbit (308260) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538265)

I've never understood the significant advantages of branded *nixes over BSD and linux.... My school runs Solaris, and I find it to be a solid *nix, but why would anyone pay (a large sum of) money for it?


Traditionally the branded *nixes have been more stable than Linux, performed better especially on large multipro systems, been guaranteed to work practically 100% of the time on certified hardware, been better tested and not on the OS using public like Linux still is to a large extent. Furthermore, with the big brands, if you have a mysterious bug or kernel panic you get a number to call and somebody works on it 16 hours a day till the bug is fixed. I can vouch for that last part, I used to do it for a living with a major Branded *nix. I will freely admit, however, that Linux is catching up with the branded *nixes. It has practically killed them off on most stand alone workstations and it is eating into the small to medium server market which is probably also why Sun is doing this.

Re:i want to know (1)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538292)

AFAIK (I'm only in high school, and have 512k, so haven't any first hand experience with it) Solaris is a better kernel, and has better vendor support.

Re:i want to know (1)

deletedaccount (835797) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538306)

What are the advantages of Solaris over, say, SuSe? One problem is that some apps only work properly on solaris. So we keep our db stuff on solaris and our services stuff on red hat.

Openvms is downloadable too. Most reliable OS. (4, Insightful)

zymano (581466) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538192)

http://www.openvms.org/ [openvms.org]

A new operating system every year but software that can't be ported is the still the main problem. Why don't you people realize this. It's the software that is the problem . The software vendors are targeting only a few distributions. Windows .

Re:Openvms is downloadable too. Most reliable OS. (3, Interesting)

pchan- (118053) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538352)

Sure, except that it runs on VAX, Alpha, and IA64 (Itanium), none of which is easy to come by for the layman.

from their faq [hp.com]

There are no plans to provide a native port of HP OpenVMS for any systems based on [IA32 or] AMD Opteron.

Well, so much for the warm fuzzies. (1, Interesting)

Soko (17987) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538193)

From the download page:

LEGAL NOTICE: To receive your free Solaris 10 license, you must register all machines upon which you are installing Solaris 10 and receive an Entitlement Document. Registration is performed in the download process, and the Entitlement Document is returned to you via email.

This is Free Software? OK, it's thier stuff, they can require me to do this, but I'm even less trusting of them than I was before.

Someone please corect me if it's a diffrence between OpenSolaris and Solaris proper.

Soko

Re:Well, so much for the warm fuzzies. (1)

LeninZhiv (464864) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538214)

Do you trust Red Hat? You need to buy RHEL, and don't expect a free license like Sun is giving out here. Once all of OpenSolaris is out I think this will run parallel to Feodora/Red Hat and OpenOffice.org/StarOffice.

Re:Well, so much for the warm fuzzies. (4, Interesting)

Soko (17987) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538286)

Trust RedHat? More than Sun. All of RedHat's products are published under the GPL. The license is Free, as in speech. I can even download the SRPMS if I wish, without paying them a dime.

Sure, I need to pay for support for each copy I run, but there's other distros out there that will run most anything RHEL does if they piss me off enough. Fedora is also a RedHat sponsored project, and for that they don't really care how many machines I, as an end user or developer, deploy. They appreciate the bug reports I send them though.

If the app I want is only certified on RedHat, it's a commercial app, and I might as well use Solaris if I'm going the proprietary route anyway.

Maybe I am being paranoid, but I can't shake the feeling that Sun is "playing the OSS game" - they don't want to participate in the community, they're playing games to see how much of the OSS community's strength they can steal.

When will I trust them? When they either GPL Open Solaris or make it plain as plain can be that they will not use thier patents against any OSS developer - even RedHat.

Soko

Re:Well, so much for the warm fuzzies. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538216)

Don't be paranoid. They just wan't to get an idea of how many people are using it. It is free (as in speech AND beer after all).
The license the Mozilla license with extra patent protection.

Don't fall for the trap (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538195)

Ulrich Drepper posted this [redhat.com] to the libc-alpha (Glibc) mailing list today. "Some people might have heard about Sun's release of the Solaris sources under their dubious license. This license is obviously intended to be incompatible with the GPL. Therefore:

Nobody who intends to contribute to glibc must look at anything but the public header files of the Solaris libc and related libraries.


(Emph. mine) Don't fall for the Solaris trap!

And vice versa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538237)

If you ever plan on working on ever working on any non-GPL software, be sure not to look at any GPL source code. Doing so contaminates you and may cause a legal issue later on if you end up implementing something similar down the road.

That's what he's saying, isn't it?

Re:And vice versa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538266)

Depends on if your non-GPL code base requires a copyright assignment or not. Ulrichs warning applies to pretty much every single GNU project, but they're unique in requiring Copyright assignment to the FSF for contributions. Other projects E.g. Linux, have no such requirement. The Copyright on the work is retained by the original author.

This is a "cover your ass" move by the FSF. If they accept patches, and the Copyright on those patches from sources which may, possibly, even slightly be "contaminated" code they would be liable for the infringment not the original author.

Re:And vice versa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538287)

Right. And the same can be said for a proprietary software project as well. If merely looking at some anti-GPL code is grounds for disqualifying a developer from ever working for a GPL project, then the opposite is also true. The GPL does not in any way permit the redistribution of the covered code in any proprietary form.

Therefore the "GPL developer" can never work on a proprietary software project that is in any way similar to a project he may have perused previously.

Frankly, this is a really dumb way to approach the issue of cross-contamination. As many here point out, there is very little under the computer sun that is new and original. If a similar concept from one project is used in another project, without direct copying of source code, then it ought to be fair game. It is merely a different manner of reverse engineering.

The glibc position on this is backwards and unnecessary.

Re:And vice versa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538305)

And the same can be said for a proprietary software project as well. If merely looking at some anti-GPL code is grounds for disqualifying a developer from ever working for a GPL project, then the opposite is also true.

Right, and many companies have this as a requirement. I've had to sign a waiver for my employer to promise not to "compete" in the telecoms software business with any Open Source projects, GPL or otherwise, in order to get them to sign my FSF copyright waiver. I know of companies which require that their developers do not look at GPL software while they're on company time or working on a project.

Stuff like this isn't exactly a legal grey area. Go ask the FSF for advice if you don't believe me on this.

Re:And vice versa (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538341)

What I do not appreciate from the FSF is that they substitute legal opinion and facts with paranoia and claim that it is the same thing. (I guess this shouldn't be surprising considering how they bastardized the meaning of the word "Free".)

Paranoia is fine, it keeps the teams out of any trouble. However, the law permits the transfer of information that is learned, so long as that information only resides in the head of a person. Direct copying is wrong, of course, but no one is talking here about direct copying.

Re:And vice versa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538347)

The problem the FSF have is that there is no way for them to know if what you have provided is similiar because it was learned, or if you copied it. So they err on the side of caution and blanket ban things like this. I think they're allowed a little paranioa personally.

Re:Don't fall for the trap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538245)

As opposed to falling into the GPL trap?

Sun is rightly protecting themselves from the GNU freaks stealing their work and relicensing Sun's code under the viral GPL.

Simple.

Re:Don't fall for the trap (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538276)

The license being used by Solaris 10 is just the Mozilla license modified to provide additional protection against patents.

In other words Solaris 10 is just as Open Source as FireFox. SO STOP TRYING TO MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF SOMETHING TRIVIAL

Don't you hate it when people use bold print ;)
It's as if they think we can't read.

Re:Don't fall for the trap (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538288)

Personally I trust the FSF and OSI more on this than I trust someone on Slashdot, but I guess some people will take any old legal "advice" if it's free.

Open Solaris? (0)

AnuradhaRatnaweera (757812) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538200)

Wonder what the exact relationship of Solaris with Open Solaris [opensolaris.org] going to be? Probably, it will be something like OpenOffice [openoffice.org] and StarOffice [sun.com] .

Re:Open Solaris? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538268)

I wouldn't be surprised if Sun dumbs down the SMP and system domain capabilities on OpenSolaris.

slashdot ad has been up for days (2, Interesting)

clymere (605769) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538233)

Funny. I started downloading this yesterday, after being prompted to try Solaris10 by an ad at the top of slashdot.

That same ad is at the top of the page now.

In fact, I have seen it a LOT the last several days.

Re:slashdot ad has been up for days (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538269)

You mean you're not running Adblock with Firefox? :)

It works wonders...

Not good for Linux (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538235)

With Solaris 10 being free, and having a large corporation to back it up with legitimate and trustworthy support, the basement-dwellers Linux days are numbered.

Sun who? (1, Flamebait)

spagetti_code (773137) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538249)

flamebait on...
Sun is becoming increasingly irrelevant in the server and enterprise space. They have known that for a while - hence their desperate moves to 'out GPL' linux with an apparentl big s/w giveaway.

But I just dont see people giving up linux and moving to sun, instead I see the opposite. Small to mid sized accounts will increasingly see linux as the core to their infrastructure.

Sun will hold large enterprise accounts for a while until Redhat or IBM really nail the enterprise feature set. Sun will also hold on to its hardware business for a while - but as google has shown, throwing gobs of cheap h/w at a problem is way more effective than high end servers.

After that, its going to be bye bye sun.

In fact, I predict Sun will become another linux vendor, just like IBM, Novell.... Resistance is futile, all your base are belong to us.

Re:Sun who? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538280)

So, you're a Linux/GPL fanboy?

Was there anything else you wanted to add?

Re:Sun who? (1)

spagetti_code (773137) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538366)

Actually, I'm an MS fanboy :-)

I dont just bend over for anyone you know.

My reasoning is as follows...
I worked on a product where we supported 37 different variants of unix. What a nightmare, we had config scripts up the wazoo. And now linux is:
a) going down the same path
b) doing it a damn sight faster
c) adding the joy of kernel-version-hell to the joy of dll-hell and distro-hell.

For all we hate MS - there is only one MS. And one XP. And I can write s/w today that will work tomorrow, and probably for several years. And wont need 20 installers nor to be re-released for each kernel mod.

MS have their own problems - they are releasing dev tools and s/w faster than people can really deal with them. Hell, we still want to write code in MFC (or is that winforms, no wait. Thats obsolete already).

MS are just such a great marketing organisation that we may as well jump on for the (very expensive) ride. Because everyone else does. And *thats* what really matters, the customers.

You are missing the point (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538313)

You are missing the whole point.
It isn't UNIX vs Linux. So you don't have to waste time spreading FUD about Sun. That's Microsoft's approach to dealing with competing Open Source products. The point is Sun isn't going away anytime soon and it has provided us with a second Open Source OS to counter MS.

High school kids fantasizing about the demise of Sun are quite amusing, but tedious.

The demo (0, Troll)

digitalchinky (650880) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538258)

I tried the 'demonstration' on their website, I got as far as the blue stripe with Sun logo and nothing else happened - I've been waiting for 5 minutes now.

Just a white screen. Does this mean solaris ten is... a box of nothing?

Re:The demo (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538307)

I think it means you don't know how to configure a web browser.

where is x86_64 version? x86 is not x86_64! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538278)

im only seeing x86 and spar version on suns download pages.

anyone care to point out where the actual opteron stuff is?

or what does sun mean by writing x86? or isnt there any x86 (i386/486/586/...) build any more? just opteron and they call that x86?

whut? i dont get their naming convention.....

Re:where is x86_64 version? x86 is not x86_64! (1)

Darkon (206829) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538336)

The SPARC version used to include 32-bit and 64-bit packages on the same CDs, although I think they dropped the 32-bit SPARC stuff now. I'm guessing the x86 version does the same thing and will install 64-bit on processors that support it and 32-bit otherwise.

Solaris 10 install hang at USB detection on VMware (0, Offtopic)

Thaidog (235587) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538279)

My fellow coworkers and I at IBM ebiz operations were happy to see Solaris 10 come out about 2 months ago... so we tried to create a virtual machine with Vmware... on both the Linux version and windows version the install hangs at the USB hardware detection for some reason. I hope this has been resolved. (All done on different hardware for the host machine as well)

At last! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538281)

At last that advertisment from the top of my /. page travelled to newsline!

Re:At last! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11538369)

You're lucky. For me they (the long, horizontal banners) travel to the right-side "advertisement" piece (for vertical ads) in the menu, screwing up whole layout.

Additional infos (2, Informative)

lanc (762334) | more than 9 years ago | (#11538370)


They have released sol10 with really nice features [sun.com] , cool.
They set it not hardcore-GPL, but at least Sun-defined opensource [opensolaris.org] . Alright.
But what the hell is this about giving the 1600 patents only for CDDL projects [groklaw.net] ?

They show supporting Linux, support the opensource-community, but they cannot/dont't want to move? Could someone explain pls?
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