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M and Me. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11553987)


~ Michael and Me ~
A story of love and
wasted ambitions

_by Roland Piquepale_

These are hard words to write. It's only been a day since Michael was fired from slashdot, only a week since I left him as he slept in our dry man-love. Where to start... How about at the beginning.

2003 was a slow year for me. The consulting business just wasn't making ends meet. Advertising revenue from my online "blog" where I plagiarize other peoples' good work for my own gain was plummetting. I was lamenting in the pub over a few Long Island Ice Teas when I saw him.

He was leaning against a pole, sipping on a margarita when our eyes met. He walked over. "Hi, I'm Michael. May I push your stool in?" Silly guy, I've heard that old pickup line before. Regardless, I invited him to sit. "So Michael, what do you do?" Damn, such a tired line but it helps break the ice. "Well," he said "I'm an editor at Slashdot."

My prayers had been answered! "My name's Roland, I run a tech-blog but it's dying faster than BSD." He laughed quite hard at that, I think it was then we knew our evening would be spent together.

The next morning I awoke in his arms. Later over coffee we discussed the plan: I would copy information from other blogs and have pricy advertising on my site. Michael would link to it from slashdot and we'd share the ill-gotten money! It was a simple plan and it worked well for a good while. Then Michael changed. He started drinking excessively and would accuse me of cheating on him. I'd come home after a night dancing to ABBA and he's tear off my pants and just smell my privates as if checking for another man's scent. Ranting around the apartment at all hours, drunk on Pina Coladas. The money garnered from my blog couldn't keep up with his intake. We had the police there more times than I care to think of.

Finally, after months of abuse I had enough. A week ago I left and wrote an open letter [slashdot.org] so he wouldn't come after me. On top of losing the love of his life, I hear he just lost his job at slashdot. I don't know where he can go now, he's virtually unemployable what with his delusional megalomania.

I only hope he straightens his life out and finds a nice man to settle down with. He deserves that much.

Take care, Michael, I still care about you.

~ fin ~


396bde7fd5560960d3d5a67355bd757a

Re:M and Me. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554077)



+500, Funny

Re:M and Me. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554153)

geeks! nerds! tell me where you like to find porn on the internet. i need to find some new sites. i like movies. help!

Re:M and Me. iop (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554335)

Hahaha another great one! ;-) Had me laughing out loud.

-- Jax.

so uh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554454)

did mike get fired or what?

i haven't been paying attention for a couple days.

Yeah, someone PLEASE fill us in... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554505)

I have no idea WTF happened. Can someone fill us in?

I go away for a few days, and all hell breaks loose.

Can't find any info on any of the media outlets; someone in the know, share!

Re:M and Me. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554522)

Michael Sims Fired, Joins GNAA to Troll Slashdot Full Time
Michael Sims Fired, Joins GNAA to Troll Slashdot Full Time

FREMONT, CA (TECHNEWS) - After a heated debate at Slashdot executive offices, editor Michael Sims was locked out of the building and departed in a tirade of lisping insults, vowing revenge immediately. This morning, industry sources revealed that Sims has joined the infamous trolling organization Gay Nigger Association of America with the intent of trolling Slashdot fulltime.

In a short phone interview with Technews, Sims asserted that he was calm but resolved on his course of action. "The Slashdot editors and I had a disagreement," he explained. "I did it all for the users, but they..." he drew the syllable out painfully, resting on a case full of Little League trophies and certificates of participation from transgendered dating services, "They just couldn't take my truth. They were -- babies, just babies, oh, the horror, the abomination," he said, before being led away by three white-clad male nurses.

According to Harvard Psychology Professor Arnold Rothstahlberg, "trolling" is an internet phenomenon where dissenting users disrupt a site by flooding it with absurd or paradoxical information. "It satisfies the primal id," he said, chewing on a large, bulbous, phallic black cigar. "To justify themselves by forcing their enemies into hysterics. It's a compensatory mechanism much like getting back at the kids who beat you up in high school by installing Linux and using it to pingflood their XP boxes and Macs."

Slashdot editor CmdrTaco was reticent to comment. At an interview conducted in the crap-filled Ann Arbor bungalow he shares with his wife, to whom he proposed over Slashdot, he said, "Well, you know, Slashdot is just a web site. Michael should calm down about this. But if he doesn't, our corporate sponsors will sue him until he's giving $4 blowjobs on Haight Street."

From the GNAA corporate headquarters, a mysterious floating island off the coast of Newfoundland that few reporters have seen and even fewer have returned from with their sexual identities intact, GNAA "Head Programmer" timecop said he was glad to have Sims on hand. "From what I've seen of his postings on Slashdot," said timecop, "he's a total fag. Which is convenient as all our halfops need anal, and I can't handle the drama. That's what's worst about the net: the drama."

Sims has been involved in previous internet firefights, most notably the controversy over the censorware.org website in 2001. While Sims alleges that the site was his creation that was sabotaged by others, his coworkers disagree. Bennett Haselton, security consultant for the "Anarchy Anal" and "Chaos Cumshot" websites, said of Sims, "We set up this website, and left him the password. We have a disagreement, bam, the website goes down and someone raped my two-week-old Labrador puppy with an iPod."

Slashdot Editor CowboyNeal, who was entangled in a whale net after attempting to swim the English channel, spoke fondly of his former coworker. "Michael always brought a certain passion to the work, a passion that was easily ignited and led to many sweaty sessions in the corporate washroom," he said. "I'm not at all surprised he joined an organization of gay niggers. He always like something different and unique in his pasta salads."

Programmer Seth Finkelstein alleges that Sims is "totally unstable" and agreed readily to this interview. "Of course, I'm a disinterested observer," he said. "But anytime I see that closet psychopath and monkey nut-muncher stealing the spotlight from hardworking programmers like myself, I have to speak up, for the benefit of the people, of course," he said. Technews reporters were permitted to leave the premises only after making a PayPal donation to Finkelstein.

Mike Godwin of the EFF, who balances a career as privacy advocate with his hobby of making videos of teen swingers blowing goats, agreed. "I've never met another editor like Michael," he said. "And, since my regimen of retrovirals is already costing me an arm and a leg, I hope I never do." Godwin mentioned that Sims believes his trolling of Slashdot is providing a "different perspective" that benefits "the broader Linux, er, Slashdot, community."

When Technews returned to interview Sims, he spoke softly and with conviction. "They don't have the interests of the user community at heart," he said. Suddenly he was pounding his desk in tears. "Those bastards cut off my lifeline, my raison d'etre," he sobbed. His voice and eyes became clear, a hatred burning behind the lenses. "I'll crapflood every Linux kernel update from now until oblivion. They haven't heard the last... of Michael Sims," he said.



About GNAA:
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.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
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| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid Al-Punjabi
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_indian@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2004 Gay Nigger Association of America [www.gnaa.us]

XHTML compliant? (5, Funny)

drivinghighway61 (812488) | more than 9 years ago | (#11553995)

So it won't render correctly in IE, then?

Re:XHTML compliant? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554058)

Firefox craps out on XHTML; IE works smooth, as always.

After all, IE is not the toy-project of laid-off AOL-Netscape employees.

P.S.: Mitchell Black is perhaps a black meat licking cum-whore.

It's not... (0, Offtopic)

the_mighty_$ (726261) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554100)

...compliant [w3.org]

But still.... (5, Informative)

the_mighty_$ (726261) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554133)

...its gone from about 130 [msdn.com] errors when it was first released, to eight errors now. Not bad. Not bad at all.

Re:But still.... (1)

DarkSarin (651985) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554211)

Nice thing is that most of those errors are not going to be too tough to kill.. By this time tommorrow, it should be compliant.

Re:But still.... (0)

emilymildew (646109) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554221)

Did you check it? They've got an awful lot of javascript for it to come close to being compliant.

I didn't look that closely, but apparently Yahoo has done the same thing and man oh MAN is their CSS ugly and cluttered.

Re:But still.... (4, Insightful)

arkanes (521690) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554346)

JavaScript has zero (zilch, zip, nada, nothing, nowhere, nohow) to do with XHTML compliance. Also, compliance doesn't test ugliness or clutteredness.

Re:It's not... (3, Informative)

Zexarious (691024) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554257)

http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://search.ms n.com [w3.org] the one the article refers to, only has one

Re:It's not... (2, Interesting)

de1orean (851146) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554284)

that's because the original poster chked msn.com, not search.msn.

Re:It's not... (2, Interesting)

Transcendent (204992) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554279)

And it will never be XHTML Strict valid if they still use IFRAMEs...

They'll probably have to go down to transitional in the end.

Re:XHTML compliant? (1)

sharkey (16670) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554516)

It renders, but only because they are not serving it as XHTML, but rather HTML. IE can't display XHTML served as such.

XHTML (or anything) strict ? kidding right ? (0, Redundant)

l3v1 (787564) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554003)

They are saying We still have some validation errors (about 130, the last time i checked) in the W3C Validator for God's sake. Then you say they are XHTML strict. Right.

Re:XHTML (or anything) strict ? kidding right ? (2, Insightful)

Mike Rubits (818811) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554126)

They said they were *working* towards XHTML strict. Just as you (hopefully) wouldn't say that about a beta with a work in progress feature.

Try being a little more constructive. (4, Interesting)

Faust7 (314817) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554194)

From the weblog:

All we ask for is for people to look at the page as a work in progress. I have seen some feedback that we should not have declared the doctype as XHTML Strict. If anything, we are closer to HTML 4.01. I agree. But our target is to get to XHTML strict. We realize we are not at a point where we can say we have achieved our goal. We will be working hard to get to that goal. Let us know how we are doing. Where are we slipping up? What do we need to fix? We are listening.

But I suppose giving actual feedback would be too much to ask.

Re:Try being a little more constructive. (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554468)

Why, are they too busy to read the validation page themselves?

Re:XHTML (or anything) strict ? kidding right ? (1)

quadra23 (786171) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554203)

XHTML Strict? Don't think so I ran:

HTML Strict

http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/ through http://validator.w3.org/ and got at least 1 error with the conclusion being, "This page is not Valid XHTML 1.0 Strict!" Certainly not valid HTML Strict.

CSS

Ran the URL through the CSS validator and got an error returned:

Errors URI : http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/ Line: 7 Uncaught error java.lang.NullPointerException

Additionally, I don't see any mention of the service being in beta, like Google tends to do with all their service offerings. MSN Search should either say they are beta or they lie (not like this wasn't the first time they lied).

Re:XHTML (or anything) strict ? kidding right ? (1)

MarkByers (770551) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554527)

Additionally, I don't see any mention of the service being in beta,

When I did a search on msn.com, it gave me a link starting with:

http://beta.search.msn.dk/....

Notice the 'beta' in the URL?

First post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554009)

I'll get everything out of the way.

In Korea, only old people use MSN search.
In Soviet Russia, MSN searches YOU!
I for one welcome our new MSN search overlords.
Except in Nebraska.

Re:First post (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554104)

Imagine a Beowolf cluster of MSNs coated in Natalie Portman's steaming hot grits... in Japan, videotaped by Gay Niggers(TM).

Weird. I tried with Firefox AND IE (2, Funny)

Man in Spandex (775950) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554015)

and the layout is fine on either browser.

Re:Weird. I tried with Firefox AND IE (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554170)

Wow, so you mean that if you expend a little bit of effort you can get validating code that works in every browser under the sun? I WOULD NEVER HAVE GUESSED!

Re: Search for linux... (1)

vettemph (540399) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554452)

And the first thing you see is a sponsored report about how microsoft server is better than linux. On the plus side, the search results no longer include "migrate from linux to windows" as the standard number three result.

CSS problems? (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554020)

If it's all standards compliant, why do I keep having problems with the style sheets? (In both Firefox and Safari, the page displays completely without styles.)

Re:CSS problems? (2, Informative)

nine-times (778537) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554125)

For clarification, MSN search displays without styles, and at the bottom of the page, it says:
Why does Search look like this?

You are seeing this message because our stylesheet is not compatible with your browser.
MSN.com displays fine.

Re:CSS problems? (0, Redundant)

stephenisu (580105) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554247)

We have also gone from a table based layout to a CSS powered layout. Granted, we were not able to hit complete compliance with standards. We still have some validation errors (about 130, the last time i checked) in the W3C Validator. We still have a couple of accessibility issues.
All we ask for is for people to look at the page as a work in progress.

Re:CSS problems? (1)

kevcol (3467) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554465)

I see styles in both browsers so not sure what you are missing.

However, in Safari the results page is completely without margins which is annoying.

IE 5 Support (4, Interesting)

FiReaNGeL (312636) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554022)

Great to see that even Microsoft 'admits' that IE 5 is non-standard on many things by dropping support for it on MSN search... trust me, building a layout compatible with IE 5, IE 6 and mozilla is a true nightmare. If at least they could patch the bad implementation of the box model...

If every webmaster would stop implementing fixes and hacks to support non-standard browsers, I think IE would lose quite a marketshare to Firefox... end users don't see the problem (IE render every page fine! Firefox don't in some situations!) because webmasters optimize for IE (it IS 95% of the market, you know). Vicious circle...

Re:IE 5 Support (5, Insightful)

qurve (689356) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554066)

It's not really that hard if you know what you're doing. as for not implementing fixes and hacks, well unfortunately I live in the real world, not an ideal utopia where I can tell my clients users to go to hell.

Re:IE 5 Support (3, Insightful)

filtur (724994) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554299)

It is indeed a Vicious circle, its not like you can explain to a client that your page is the one that's complient and IE is wrong.

That all depends... (2, Interesting)

Sebadude (680162) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554490)

its not like you can explain to a client that your page is the one that's complient and IE is wrong

Does the page break in IE 5? I can't check from this computer. If it does, it'll be much easier now, since we can show them that even Microsoft's own MSN.com no longer supports outdated browsers. If Microsoft does it, the people will follow.

Re:IE 5 Support (0, Troll)

DaHat (247651) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554436)

Nice theory, shame it doesn't work.

Just today a co-worker asked me about why many pages weren't looking right in Firefox, and I explained to him the whole issue of most web designers optimizing their pages for IE which doesn't follow the standards too well, as well as how no matter how standards compliant another browser is, if it gets garbage for data, it probably isn't going to look pretty.

I ended with "... and that's why I run IE".

His response, "Sounds good to me".

He was converted to Firefox for a time by an in-house OSS zealot .. but I'm proud to say that I've converted him back.

XHTML Strict my Arse (3, Informative)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554034)

From the validator webpage:

Line 6, column 998: there is no attribute "VCARD_NAME" ...ze="20" value="" name="q" VCARD_NAME="SearchText" />


It may be WELL-FORMED XHTML, but it introduces a proprietary attribute (so... Microsoft).

Respect for web standards... yeah right. IMO they just did an optimization of their design... and certainly they did NOT have in mind any consideration for web standards. They nerver had.

Re:XHTML Strict my Arse (2, Informative)

rushmobius (687814) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554162)

At least read the blog entry before posting.

Then you would see that they know it was not XHTML compliant yet, but was a work in progress getting there.

Jumping on the bandwagon and saying "XHTML Strict my Arse" would warrant the reply RTFA

Re:XHTML Strict my Arse (0)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554237)

I did RTFA, where do you think I got the link from? :P

My point is that this error isn't a malformed CSS, or a deprecated HTML 4 attribute. But a *NEW* proprietary attribute that doesn't belong there in the first place.

Just to inform you, I posted a comment in the designer's log.

Re:XHTML Strict my Arse (2, Informative)

arkanes (521690) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554430)

Actually, the main problem is that the attribute is in upper case. That's the cause of 3 of the 8 errors on the MSN home page, too.

No kidding. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554246)

Then you would see that they know it was not XHTML compliant yet, but was a work in progress getting there.

Jumping on the bandwagon and saying "XHTML Strict my Arse" would warrant the reply RTFA


Right on.

I have seen some feedback that we should not have declared the doctype as XHTML Strict. If anything, we are closer to HTML 4.01. I agree. But our target is to get to XHTML strict. We realize we are not at a point where we can say we have achieved our goal. We will be working hard to get to that goal. Let us know how we are doing. Where are we slipping up? What do we need to fix? We are listening.

But you know, God forbid that any self-respecting Slashdotter actually registers anything that gets in the way of their ceaseless, unproductive Microsoft-bashing. Like, say, the facts. It's a work in progess, people. They even openly ask you for information on how to improve. Who has time to do that though? Let's all just sit back and bitch.

Addendum: Usability (0)

Spy der Mann (805235) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554201)

Tried the search page.

Results *seem* xhtml strict (didn't validate tho), but something awful:

It renders wrong in Firefox. The pulldown menu overflows the border (font too big), i have to press ctrl - twice to fix it.

Also, the "next" button is on the rightmost corner of the webpage. I have to scroll sideways (unless i'm running my browser in fullscreen) and the results are in an incredibly huge font.

I guess the designers should have tried other configurations before releasing the thing. Oh well.

Re:Addendum: Usability (2, Informative)

Animaether (411575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554464)

Do people check this out when modding things Interesting ?

Firefox 1.0, Windows XP.
The pulldown menu doesn't overflow the border. Sorry.

The next button is indeed in the rightmost corner of the webpage. Well, sorta. It's not like it's all the way over to the right, just on the right. The browser window at 800 pixels wide still shows the Next link. So unless you set your browser to be really, really tiny, you should be fine.

And the results are in an incredibly huge font, you say ?
I measure the height of the lowercase letter 'o' (baseline, basically) of the results' excerpt as 8px wide by 8px high. For Google, I measure the same as 7px wide by 7px high. Oh yes, incredibly huge.

Now, I'm not saying that you're not having problems with MSN Searh. But maybe, just maybe, it's something on your end ?

You do know what the X in XHTML stands for? (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554431)

Why use an Extensible HyperText Markup Language if you can't extend it?

Go Standards! (2, Funny)

delta_avi_delta (813412) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554056)

With any luck this also implies that the next release of Frontpage won't create pages in a magical mystical microsoft invented language similar, but importantly different from HTML or XHTML...

Re:Go Standards! (2, Funny)

dapyx (665882) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554285)

Actually, the thing generated by Frontpage is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike HTML.

Re:Go Standards! (1)

darkpixel2k (623900) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554560)

Anyone remember the old FrontPage 2000 ad [darkpixel.com] that Microsoft posted? Even their ad didn't use correct HTML. (See if you can spot the error)

Re:Go Standards! (1)

NinjaFarmer (833539) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554291)

So M$ will design a language that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike XHTML, and Frontpage will only make pages in this language that is almost, but not quite, entirely unlike XHTML.

Slashdotters at it again (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554078)

You can also read first-hand MSN designer insight into the design process as well.

Not that I expect anything even close to an objective review of that process from Slashdot readers.

I expect a great deal of criticism that is well-written but doesn't actually have much substance.

Whoa! (2, Funny)

A nonymous Coward (7548) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554118)

XHTML strict

If they can be strict with this standard, that can only mean they have pre-emptively co-opted it! They have embraced and extended it before anyone else had a chance to simply follow it. They must have bribed the committees. This has to have been an inside job.

This cannot be allowed to stand. We must stand up and fight for our rights to unpoluted standards. It is time to find a new standard.

MSN Criticism (5, Funny)

sameerdesai (654894) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554140)

From TFA: Some of you may be interested to know that folks from the MSN team have definitely seen this page, and are aware of the feedback, compliments, and criticism
Yep, they did a search in their own search engine for "Miscrosoft Criticism" and found this website.

No I am not trolling (5, Insightful)

avandesande (143899) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554161)

Who cares about the UI? How good are the searches?

Re:No I am not trolling (1)

nine-times (778537) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554242)

Well, in this case, we care about the UI, not so much in whether it's "pretty", but whether the design is standards compliant. This goes to the core of a lot of complaints about Microsoft, since they seem to purposefully avoid using standards for the sake of hurting their competitors.

I assume everyone remembers the MSN/Opera fiasco [opera.com] ?

who cares about the UI (1)

de1orean (851146) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554325)

users do. duh.

Re:No I am not trolling (1)

Transcendent (204992) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554340)

The point is that it's not filled with MS ActiveX controls and other IE only functions, and it will be very cross-browser friendly.

Re:No I am not trolling (2, Insightful)

curunir (98273) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554356)

Umm...I don't give a rats ass about the searches (Google works fine for me), but the fact that they've chosen to be mostly standards compliant on one of their significant projects could signal their intent to make IE more standards compliant. If you've ever tried to create an XHTML/CSS website that's more complex than just swapping in new colors/fonts, you've also realized how annoying it is that you basically have to use hacks or separate stylesheets to get it to work correctly in IE. Them moving their browser platform closer to standards compliance would make the life of a web designer significantly easier.

Re:No I am not trolling (1)

fred fleenblat (463628) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554442)

For a start, read here [slashdot.org] and here here [slashdot.org] .

Moogle Whack! (1, Offtopic)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554545)

Well, interestingly my search for circumspect elephantitis [msn.co.uk] displays exactly one result - the same number as the same search on Google! [google.co.uk] .

But the REALLY interesting thing about this is that the results are different - how about THAT for a Moogle Whack?!

I'm very disappointed with MSN news look! (2, Funny)

af_robot (553885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554585)

I was hoping for a friendly 3D animated Clippy to help me decide where i want to go today!

Made me think... (1)

scottking (674292) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554175)

"Shit man, even the Mona Lisa is falling apart."
- Tyler Durden, Fight Club

Why so many MSN Search stories? (1, Insightful)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554192)

No one cares. It's from Microsoft, and thus cannot be trusted. Do a search for "Linux," for crying out loud, and take a gander at the first thing that shows up for display: Right, a sponsored link from Microsoft that lies about Linux.

Has nothing about this company's past and recent history meant anything to us? Do you really think they intend to play fair? Do you really feel you will be able to trust their search results no matter what promises they make? Maybe you do, but I can't imagine ever trusting Microsoft for anything. Live and learn, eh?

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (2, Insightful)

elrusoloco (737386) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554343)

re: do a search for linux... The "first thing" you're referring to is an ad. Do a search for Linux on Google, and you get the same exact link as the first result on the right-hand side under "Relevant ads" or whatever they're called - MSN just calls them "sponsored sites". I'm not advocating trusting Microsoft, but I really think you were not being objective here and felt the need to.....object.

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (2, Informative)

xoran99 (745620) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554370)

The result you cite is obviously a placed result, not among the real search results. It's in a little block that says "Sponsored sites". Compare the first few results from MSN and google:

MSN Google
1. linux.org same
2. linux.com same
3. linuxinsider.com Redhat
4. linuxdoc.org kernel.org
5. gentoo.org Debian
6. ibm.com/linux Linux Journal
7. techupdate.zdnet.com linux-laptop.net

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554372)

It's a sponsored link moron! The actual first search result is linux.org...

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (1)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554553)

"It's a sponsored link moron! "

Fascinating. I called it a "sponsored link" and I get lots of responses telling me I'm an idiot for not noticing it's a sponsored link. I wonder who the idiots are here.

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554373)

LOl if is from Linux then its trusted? If you use this site to know more about technology then i tell way... you'll be fucked on the long run.

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (1)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554574)

LOl if is from Linux then its trusted?

Odd, I never said that, nor do I know of a search site "from Linux." I'm certainly getting emotional responses to my post.

You are a tinfoil hat-wearing idiot. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554375)

No one cares. It's from Microsoft, and thus cannot be trusted.

Why? Because they're a gigantic company out to preserve their position in the business world? Show me one corporation whose goal isn't the same damned thing, and you'll be showing me empty space. Yeah, yeah, COMPANIES = EVIL. Better go ditch your car and clothes then.

Do a search for "Linux," for crying out loud, and take a gander at the first thing that shows up for display: Right, a sponsored link from Microsoft that lies about Linux.

You misleading little troll. The first real search result leads to www.linux.org. Sure there are sponsored links at the top, but they're clearly labeled as such and are separated from everything else. If you want to bitch about the mere presence of sponsored links, go right ahead. They're a com-pa-ny.

I can't imagine ever trusting Microsoft for anything. Live and learn, eh?

My company trusts Microsoft with ensuring the smooth sailing of the electronic portion of our business operations. No catastrophes since the company was founded in '96. We're living and learning.

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (1)

aengblom (123492) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554395)

Do a search for "Linux," for crying out loud, and take a gander at the first thing that shows up for display: Right, a sponsored link from Microsoft that lies about Linux.

Did you bother trying it on Google? Oh right, same friggin sponsored link. Microsoft Corp. and its marketing unit can buy the sponsored links just like anyone else. That's why they're called sponsored.

I'm sick of linux fanatics (0, Flamebait)

KZigurs (638781) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554471)

Tell me - why do you think they are lying. Yes, their operating system is insecure. Yes, it's slow and buggy and difficult to administrate as hell. Yes, they don't adhere to standards and change their supported features often.

But how is this different from Linux?

(and BSD is NOT linux.)

What?! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554511)

Yes, it's slow and buggy and difficult to administrate as hell.

Difficult to administrate? I have never had an easier time administering a server than I have had with Windows Server 2003. Lots of people here seem to forget that that product exists. It is far, far easier to use than any UNIX or Linux server software I have encountered.

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (1)

WWWWolf (2428) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554492)

Do a search for "Linux," for crying out loud, and take a gander at the first thing that shows up for display: Right, a sponsored link from Microsoft that lies about Linux.

Strange. I went to MSN Search (had to Google for it to find it =) and the results were following: News links to my local newspaper Kaleva (stories regarding Solaris release, one big company getting IBM gear, and stuff about the Simputer), then, in order, linux-aktivaattori.org, linux.fi, www.cs.helsinki.fi/linux ("Linux was invented here") and flug.fi (Finnish Linux User Group).

Maybe they won't bother to push the FUD in this miserable backwater I'm living in? =)

damn (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554496)

why did i waste my last point modding up the homoerotic first post when i could have smacked your stupid ass down?

Re:Why so many MSN Search stories? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554508)

Seems their ad has been slasdoted. All the other sponsored links work, but I get an error on theirs...

Who owns doubleclick?

Are Microsoft paying themselves for the clicks on that sponsored link?

Otherwise, I'll just click there a couple hundred times.

Slow news days? (2, Insightful)

bigtallmofo (695287) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554204)

How the design principles used on a web page that is basically a textbox and a submit button is news is beyond me.

Re:Slow news days? (2, Interesting)

aiken_d (127097) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554341)

Yeah, and what's even crazier is international news coverage of some sick old guy in Italy.

It's almost like some people think that events can exist within a larger context, and that even smallish events could possibly have deeper meanings and impacts.

Pretty ridiculous, isn't it?

-b

Re:Slow news days? (1)

renderhead (206057) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554447)

If you aren't even going to read the article (it's primarily about MSN.com, not just the search page), then WTF are you complaining about? The article didn't even waste any of your time, and some people find it interesting. If you have nothing to contribute, go find another article to read.

Mobile device consideration (4, Insightful)

wombatmobile (623057) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554209)

Look through the imported style sheet on the home page, and you'll see several uses of @media handheld {} to target certain rules for handheld devices.

Hey, that's good practise. The intent is for the one page to render appropriately for multiple device types. The web needs more implementations of this to make mobile browsing viable.

Faster load times... (5, Informative)

GillBates0 (664202) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554216)

Microsoft links to an explanation of benefits of the new MSN where they list the top (first) feature as being "Faster load time". Not sure what the old HTML file size was, but it would be interesting to have as a comparison.

According to the Wayback machine [waybackmachine.org] , file size doesn't seemed to have changed (or reduced) that much. This old version from July 2004 [archive.org] is actually smaller (33.95kb) than the current one [msn.com] which is 40.55kb. Note that this is from Firefox's "View Page Info" which does not take the total size of the images, etc into account (I think).

But then there are several factors other than raw filesize leading to slower load times.

It's nice to see webpage developers at Microsoft aware of standards, and trying to adhere to them. From this comment:

At 6:29pm on 1 Feb 2005, Venkat Narayanan wrote:
Guys,
I work on the MSN.com Homepage team. Thanks for all of this feedback.
We know that there are still some validation errors. There are still some accessibility issues. We will be working to fix those issues as soon as possible. Please let us know what you think.

I think it only needs standards awareness from a few of the low-level developers to bring about a change. Even if the high level management/QA may not know or care about standards, a developer could make the work standards friendly without foregoing any of the performance/features. It would help, though to have management promote standards awareness, and devote resources to make sure they're complied with. Good for Microsoft if they're doing this. On the other hand, it may only be these few standards aware developers trying to do the right job.

Re:Faster load times... (1)

Anthony Liguori (820979) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554270)

I think it only needs standards awareness from a few of the low-level developers to bring about a change.

I've heard it said that Microsoft hires "hackers" and not necessarily good engineers. From visiting, I'd tend to agree with this. There is very much an emphasis on late night coding binges and not so much on spending the time to make sure designs are sound, standards are adhered to, etc.

Not quite... (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554318)

On the other hand, it may only be these few standards aware developers trying to do the right job.

I doubt it. Microsoft is one of the most coordinated operations around. They do their best efforts to time the development and release of everything - hell, optimally they want to release the next version of Office with Longhorn. The point is that, at Microsoft, the left hand almost always knows what the right hand is doing and there are very few communication blocks between management and developers (anyone that's worked at Microsoft in recent years can verify this, and anyone that says the contrary is true is an utter liar). Do you honestly think that the issue of standards compliance regarding their main web portal has gone unnoticed except by a few developers? Think again!

Re:Not quite... (0)

wfberg (24378) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554514)

Do you honestly think that the issue of standards compliance regarding their main web portal has gone unnoticed except by a few developers?

Quite the opposite. It's more likely than not encouraged. Think about it. Who visits msn.com of their own accord? You start up internet explorer and it's there. You click on an ad in MSN Messenger and you get on msn.com. And finally, people using hotmail.com are shuttled onto the msn.com website.

Hotmail's inoperability is legendary; they were even sabotaging the Opera browser quite on purpose.

The idea being that you can use the popularity of MSN Messenger and Hotmail to make people think internet explorer is the better browser because websites like msn.com render correctly in it.

Only works if your portal is a destination people actually care about rendering correctly, though. If people just shrug and go to another site that DOES work, it makes you lose customers. And since msn.com sucks llama's ass, they're now realizing they made a mistake, and they might as well support Opera (and Firefox, and Safari) since every eyeball they can scrounge is another nickle.

moPdP up (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554233)

Surprise to the theorists - WALK UP TO A PLAY the public eye: about 700 users Bombshell hit EroSion of user that has lost and suggesting National gay nigger No matter how least I won't beyond the scope of Of playing your problems that I've happiness Another They want you to of OpenBSD versus worthwhile. So I Out of bed in the like I should be some of you have departures of triumphs would soon endless conflict However I don't ASSOCIATION OF and help us! troubles of those they are Come on

I just tried it with lynx (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554248)

Yes, it works. But will they also send cops out to break down my door and arrest me?

Broken? How bout kills IE5 (4, Funny)

Bobbysmith007 (717813) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554292)

We were curoius how broken it would be in IE 5. In IE5.5 everything was mostly ok. In IE 5 it hard crashes IE. I dont know if I've ever seen anything quite so beautiful as that browser going down in flames on its own homepage.

Not standards compliant. (1)

Denis Lemire (27713) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554295)

Although the page is using a proper DOCTYPE declaration and is rendering in standards compliance mode in FireFox, a quick trip to validator.w3.org reveals a lot of small details that could still be fixed. :P

Still a far cry ahead of Slashdot's god awful HTML output, but still leaves something to be desired...

Pretty heavy on the javascript usage, and misc clutter as well.

Re:Not standards compliant. (1)

jacksonj04 (800021) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554539)

Doubt mods will spot it, but insightful!

It's all well and good bitching about other sites, but run /. through a W3C validator and it has a heart attack.

Re:Not standards compliant. (1)

generic-man (33649) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554569)

OK, then I guess I'd better go to a valid-HTML search engine [w3.org] .

Oops. Better try Yahoo [w3.org] .

Oops. Better try Ask Jeeves [w3.org] .

Oops. Maybe Teoma [w3.org] , the poor man's Google, works.

Oops. Guess nobody in the real world cares about "web standards" [weill.org] anyway.

I thank you for yo0R time (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554309)

A GAY NIGGER

What's with all the MSN Search articles ? (3, Insightful)

Animaether (411575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554328)

Okay... so supposedly nobody fears MSN Search.
Everybody says Google still kicks full-on ass.
Etc. etc. etc.

So why is it that in the past 2 days alone there have been -3- articles on MSN Search on Slashdot ?

MSN Search has arrived [slashdot.org] - actually, it was there a long time ago. It was simply finally put into place on the msn.com portal. I'm sure that was big news to all the Slashdot users who have msn.com as their homepage *smirk*

Inspecting MSN Search [slashdot.org] - comparing image search, specifically. Using 'Britney Spears'. Gar, what inspection. Do something really interesting and post a website with text and images on a rather specific thing at various locations. Don't announce this. Now check which engine adds which website and its images, and when. Then compare them, and publish THOSE results. That just might be interesting.

MSN Search - From A UI Perspective [slashdot.org] - So from a UI perspective they've found it uses XHTML (to some extent) ? Wow. Next time I'll evaluate a user interface, I'll be sure to note that it uses COMCTL32 and COMDLG32 instructions. ffs. This says nothing about the actual UI. Which, by the way, is quite sleek - imho. Bit more form over function than Google's, but still pretty light-weight. (Again, this is search.msn.com , not the msn.com portal.) I suspect the title here is chosen wrongly - it's more of a "internet standards compliance and device support inspection".

Could Slashdot editors *please* just hold off the MSN Search articles until something actually interesting about it comes up ?

Sceptic mode: Or perhaps do they post this simply to allow some more Microsoft- / MSN Search-bashing posts in the comments ?

Re:What's with all the MSN Search articles ? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11554377)

By that logic, Slashdot should hold off on Google and Linux articles until something interesting happens. Guess what? an OSnews.com article trying out 17 different LiveCD distros is far less interesting than this.

Re:What's with all the MSN Search articles ? (1)

Animaether (411575) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554533)

Wholly agreed!

Though Google news bits are typically about them expanding into areas. E.g. the domain registration thing.

Not a new Google news item anytime they make a special Google logo graphic to celebrate some day. Which would be roughly equivalent to all this crap.

developers developers developers ! (2, Funny)

flacco (324089) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554409)

search for "developers developers developers" on google and you get a solid first page full of ballmer-dancing-monkey-boy links. on msn search, not a single one.

hmmm.

They are moving in the right direction (3, Insightful)

Ars-Fartsica (166957) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554428)

The search is fast, the results are good, and the layout is clean(er). Maybe they are beginning to get it. Competition works.

IEWin CSS hack in use (1)

qengho (54305) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554429)


the death of IE 5 support

I can't get to TFA at the moment to see if this is mentioned, but I did look at the stylesheet for the main page [msn.com] and found that they're using Tantek Celik's IE5 box model hack. [tantek.com]

Does that count as "eating your own dog food"?

Longhorn predictions (1)

popo (107611) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554552)


Prediction 1:

Microsoft Desktop Search and MSN Search are seamlessly combined and are available on the taskbar at all times.

Prediction 2:
The Google lawsuit against bundling and for inclusion of Google Desktop Search / Web Search with Longhorn is already in the works. (Same will apply for GMail vs. Longhorn bundled Desktop-Hotmail access).

The media-player lawsuit was nothing compared to this one...

Whoopie. (1)

CODiNE (27417) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554572)

They let us take back the browser market in exchange they will attempt to control the internet itself.

If you can't control the program that accesses the information, control the access to the information.

-Don.

Moderating the Blog? (1)

arch17c7 (708577) | more than 9 years ago | (#11554591)

How much useful information can we expect to get from the page when the posts are being moderated before they are posted? I mean, I understand the potential for screaming, flaming fireballs calling MS everything but the Anti-Christ, but come on, I'd like to see the posts that don't approve of the changes as well. That would probably include mine.
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