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The NeXT-Best Thing: GNUSTEP 0.9.4 Live CD

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the party-like-it's-1991 dept.

GNUStep 444

roard writes "Following the NeXT tradition with mixed case, GNUSTEP is a live CD/distribution while GNUstep is an implementation of the OpenStep API. GNUSTEP is based on Morphix, and uses the GNUstep libraries and GNUstep-based applications to provide a NeXTSTEP-like environment that people can easily test and use. This new 0.9.4 release comes 8 months since the precedent 0.5 release, and brings a lot of new GNUstep applications with it, as well as an upgrade of the GNUstep libraries and the development tools. In other news, a small demonstration of GNUstep development tools is available in Flash or divx. The old dream of having a GNU OS with Hurd and an OpenStep implementation doesn't seems that far now ;)"

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wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (4, Funny)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11590988)

i'Ve aLWaYs wOndEReD.

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591014)

probably because of TeX

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591061)

I had a link somewhere that explained, but I can't find the site now (one of those "history of OS X" sites out there somewhere, I'm sure)... NeXT used different capitalizations to mean different things. One was for the OS itself, one was for the windowing system on top of that, one was for the company, one was for the libraries, and so on.

This is what happens to your brain when you use a case-sensitive OS for your entire life ;)

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591141)

RTFA! ... the company "NeXT" has always been spelled with a lowercase "e", to make the logo look better and to make the name more recognizable in print, ...

from http://www.objectfarm.org/Activities/Publications/ TheMerger/OpenstepConfusion.html

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (1)

kwerle (39371) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591174)

Because you can't trademark a generic word (like next) unless you fuck with the capitalization. Because then it's not just the word- it's YOUR(tm) word.

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591257)

you can totally trademark a generic word as long as it is not generic within your trade, cf. "apple".

NeXT is probably using the capitalization just to seem po-mo and cool. it's an image thing.

Re:wHy WaS NeXT nAmED LiKE ThAT aNyHoW? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591342)

(Score:4, Funny)

me too

Have fun, nerds! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11590990)

Enjoy your Microsoft bashing and linux circlejerks, or whatever you call them. I am off to party.

Re:Have fun, nerds! (1, Funny)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591008)

Is this some "hyper bowl" thing or somewhaT?

Re:Have fun, nerds! (1, Informative)

JessLeah (625838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591045)

Off topic? It was an ON-TOPIC response to a troll. It was also meant as humorous. As in, us geeks don't even know how to say "Super Bowl". Ha ha, very funny.

Why are the mods here obsessed with downmodding things?

Re:Have fun, nerds! (1)

Leo McGarry (843676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591160)

It was also meant as humorous.

A for effort, but D- for execution. It wasn't funny, first because it just wasn't funny, and second because it's God's own cliché: "Hey, I'll pretend not to know about some massively significant event in order simultaneously to perpetuate and to mock the stereotype that people like me are unaware of their surroundings." It was old when one antediluvian nerd said to another antediluvian nerd, "What's this I hear about rain?"

weenus secks is teh kewlest (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591009)

i wanna lay you down by teh fibur, and caress your womanly man-butte!!!

-peepers

wow i remember when gnu was very different (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591004)

fristo prososot

video (2, Informative)

va3atc (715659) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591016)

is not divx, its mpeg(1 or 2, haven't finished downloading yet)

Re:video (1)

marcello_dl (667940) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591077)

"file" command says it's a Divx, mplayer says it's an xvid with avi file format, maybe adding .avi to the filename solves problems if there are any.

Re:video (1)

YankeeInExile (577704) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591090)

Isn't divx a codec [doom9.org] that might be contained within MPG files?

Re:video (5, Informative)

Wordsmith (183749) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591238)

It's a codec that might be contained within avi files, or wmv files, or mov files. MPG files are explicitly mpegs.

Now, to make it even more fun. divx is an implimentation of mpeg-4. So even through it's not an mpeg1 or mpeg2 file, in a sense, it's still an mpeg file.

Re:video (1)

va3atc (715659) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591104)

Sorry folks, when I say the length when the video loaded up in contrast to its size I later bit my tongue :)

Re:video (1)

va3atc (715659) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591112)

Saw*...Must...Preview....Post.....

Re:video (1)

nkh (750837) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591106)

file says it's an AVI (798x598) DivX 4, not an mpg as the extension shows. Just rename it to .avi if it's not auto-detected.

Hurd? (3, Interesting)

Digital Pizza (855175) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591025)

Does Hurd have anything to do with this? (Can't get to the article). I don't see how this brings the Hurd closer to "release", any more that it does Duke Nukem Forever.

Re:Hurd? (4, Informative)

Pflipp (130638) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591036)

Like Hurd was the perceived GNU kernel, GNUstep was the perceived GNU GUI.

Re:Hurd? (1)

Pflipp (130638) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591049)

Hmm... I hoped "perceived" meant something like "envisioned". That's what I meant, anyway.

Re:Hurd? (1)

Digital Pizza (855175) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591079)

Yeah, I guess get the association, but I doubt this is going to do anything to move Hurd further along; this is already running (apparently) well enough on Linux. I'm not holding my breath for it the Hurd.

Re:Hurd? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591345)

This has nothing to do with Hurd. It could be made to run on an operating system using Hurd or any other Posix kernel but it isn't intended to "advance" Hurd.

Other GNU projects such as Emacs, GCC, Glibc, Gnome, Grubb etc, etc, will also not advance Hurd. There are a lot of GNU projects. Advancing Hurd is generally not a requirement.

Re:Hurd? (5, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591075)

GNUstep, like HURD, is a GNU project that has been going on for ages (it predates KDE and GNOME), without appearing to get close to completion. Unlike KDE or GNOME, which can incrementally add and deprecate features and APIs (potentially ending up with the same mess of legacy interfaces that plagues Windows), GNUstep is implementing the OPENSTEP API, jointly developed by NeXT and Sun. This meant that it was not particularly usable until it was about 90% done. This happened in the last year or so which, combined with the introduction of OPENSTEP into the mainstream in the form of Cocoa on OS X, lead to an increase in interest in GNUstep.

The relevance to HURD is tenuous, but I recall Roard mentioning recently that he had seen a demo of a GNUstep desktop running on top of HURD, giving a 100% GNU desktop. Perhaps this is what he was referring to. It doesn't bring HURD any close to release, but when HURD is ready (Real Soon Now(TM)), it is likely that there will be a GNUstep desktop waiting for it. If only the GCC developers would commit Objective-C++ to the main tree and let is have a WebKit-based browser...

Re:Hurd? (2, Informative)

Master Bait (115103) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591270)

If only the GCC developers would commit Objective-C++ to the main tree and let is have a WebKit-based browser...

Ironic state of things, considering that the very first web browser was written [w3.org] for OpenStep in Objective C.

Re:Hurd? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591301)

Why is that 'ironic?'

Re:Hurd? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591288)

Does Hurd have anything to do with this? (Can't get to the article). I don't see how this brings the Hurd closer to "release"

Since you don't know what it is, it's hardly surprising that you can't see how it could bring Hurd closer to release. Not that it does have anything to do with Hurd, but your comment is as content-free as it is possible to get.

Why bother? OS X is here NOW. (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591029)

The only true heir to Next is already here. OS X has all the brilliant design and usability, runs on the best hardware and runs all the best software. GNUStep, being based on Linux, is crap by comparison, and probably always will be.

Re:Why bother? OS X is here NOW. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591051)

The only true heir to Next is already here. OS X has all the brilliant design and usability, runs on the best hardware and runs all the best software. GNUStep, being based on Linux, is crap by comparison, and probably always will be.

Preach on brother!

Re:Why bother? OS X is here NOW. (1)

Linwood (652814) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591322)

...did he... just say the "L" word in vain? ... on slashdot?

GNUstep works on hurd (3, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591031)

with a really small patch to libobjc,
available in a gcc/libobjc bug report.

GNU's not Unix - but it is, apparently, Mac OS X (4, Informative)

1010011010 (53039) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591035)


Microkernel, unix-like userspace, Nextstep-based application development?

Right here [apple.com] .

Plus it isn't open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591057)

Plus since it isn't open source, it has a significant advantage over Linux and GNU-Step when it comes to security and protection of intellectual property. It is no co-incidence that OS X is ranked as the most secure OS and that unlike Linux, there aren't a dozen lawsuits flying back and forth over who actually owns the code.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591113)

Um, your being sarcastic, right? Incase your not...

-The OSX core IS open source, along with alot of other parts Are you forgeting that OSX is based off BSD/Mach? [apple.com]
-Although OSX is very cool (I've got a mac mini, love it to death) it actually does have a few viruses, contrasted to the none on linux.
-There aren't any lawsuits over who owns the linux code. It's owned by the people who wrote it, which is easy to find out, and otherwise it doesn't matter because it's GPL'd.

If you were serious, please check your facts next time. If you were joking, then sorry for ruining the joke. :)

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (1)

lederhosen (612610) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591146)

The library part of OSX, that GNUStep implements, is
*not* *in any way* open source.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591164)

No shit? Their implementing a standard. That's the point.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (1, Informative)

Leo McGarry (843676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591199)

Although OSX is very cool (I've got a mac mini, love it to death) it actually does have a few viruses

Um? Like which ones, for instance? (The answer is, there are none.)

There aren't any lawsuits over who owns the linux code.

Okay, that's just not so. Linux is positively buried in litigation.

otherwise it doesn't matter because it's GPL'd

It does matter, because if the people who released the code actually stole the code, then it should be obvious that they have no right to try to saddle the code with a proprietary license. Or to do anything else with it, for that matter.

You might not like the fact that Linux is under litigation, or you might expect the litigation to end in a settlement or be dismissed, but that doesn't change the fact that Linux is in the courts right now.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591265)

Um? Like which ones, for instance?
Opener, to name one. ASTrojan to name abother. Why is there OSX antivirus software? (Which I'll admit is useless, because viruses aren't a real threat on OSX, even if they exist)

Okay, that's just not so. Linux is positively buried in litigation.
Is that so? What "litigation" are you refering to? The SCO trials? If you are refering to the SCO vs The World trials, then I'd get of slashdot pretty fast. SCO has been ordered to prove their claims, and as of yet has not. Just a company burning up what little money they have left out of spite. Linux is not in the courts right now. Not at all.

There ARE no viruses. (3, Informative)

GFLPraxis (745118) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591313)

Opener, to name one. ASTrojan to name abother. Why is there OSX antivirus software? (Which I'll admit is useless, because viruses aren't a real threat on OSX, even if they exist)

Trojan /= Virus. Look it up.

There are two trojans and NO VIRUSES. Opener does NOT self replicate, nor does it use any vulnerabilities (you have to deliberately execute it and then type in your password for it to install itself). Therefore it is NOT a virus.

And there are many OS 9 viruses, and Word Macro viruses (not a threat to OS X, but a thread to your Word documents), which explains the OS X antivirus software.

But the fact remains, there are no viruses. There is only two trojans, both of which require you to install them yourself.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591335)

Using a trojan horse as an example of a virus is pretty weak.

There have been trojans for Linux too (e.g., source/package servers getting rooted).

But yeah, generally speaking, Unix and Unix-alikes are more resistant to virii (no user interaction required).

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (2, Insightful)

tolan-b (230077) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591317)

Actually SCO is after IBM for breach of contract, all the stuff about copyright breach and putting stuff into Linux has been dropped. That is, SCO claim IBM put stuff in Linux that they shouldn't have, but the stuff they alledgedly put in was still owned by IBM, the question is whether IBM was breaching its contract with SCO by putting that code in, not whether that code can legally be in Linux.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591208)

Although OSX is very cool (I've got a mac mini, love it to death) it actually does have a few viruses

name them plz.

contrasted to the none on linux.

Linux.OSF.8759
Linux.RST
Worm.Linux.Adm
Worm. Linux.Cheese
Worm.Linux.Mighty
Worm.Linux.Ramen
Worm.Linux.Slapper

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591284)

name them plz.
search google plz.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (1)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591212)

Umm... OS X and Linux both are about the same number of viruses and worms. To say that Linux has none is as wrong as some Apple fan-boy saying that OS X hasnone. While it's not some comprehensive list, I don't believe I have a burden to provide one; but there was that bliss virus/trojan [uni-paderborn.de] , and others. That was simply one of the first hits provided by Google. Finding more is left as an exercise for the reader.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591229)

...as wrong as some Apple fan-boy saying that OS X hasnone.

name some plz.

Re:Plus it isn't open source. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591331)

SH.Renepo.B [symantec.com]
MacOS.MW2004.Trojan [symantec.com]
MP3Concept [symantec.com]

Didn't bother looking up more, but the Mac people is in for a big surprise if they are naive about this.

Re:GNU's not Unix - but it is, apparently, Mac OS (1)

lederhosen (612610) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591085)

nah, Mac OS X is not i microkernel design.

It uses MACH as a HAL, not for message passing.
And it got a fucked up filesystem hiarchy.

Re:GNU's not Unix - but it is, apparently, Mac OS (1)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591195)

And it got a fucked up filesystem hiarchy.

Are you saying it's fucked up compared to *STEP or Linux? Solaris? HP-UX? Xenix? AIX? Hell, A/UX?

Don't get me wrong, I love NeXTSTEP and OPENSTEP. Ran em both for a long time. I'd rather be using them than OS X. But if the complaint is that OS X's fs hierarchy is screwed up compared to *STEP... Seems a bit much. I mean, how much harder is /Applications than /NextApps?

Re:GNU's not Unix - but it is, apparently, Mac OS (1)

lederhosen (612610) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591315)

Comparing to unix...

Its not much harder though.

Another fine Morphix CD (0)

bmsleight (710084) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591047)

Another LiveCD based on Morphix [morphix.org] .

Morphix: distro sleeper hit (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591334)

Morphix is a damn fine distro and mostly unknown. Morphix lightGUI is the fastest functional debian distro I could find and Morphix Game is the original gaming live cd.

This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linux (5, Interesting)

jkheit (634306) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591076)

This UI and development environment seems so much better than the standard KDE/GNOME stuff, I've always wondered why this was not championed as a default desktop environment for Linux. There is also some OS X compatibility [macobserver.com] there as well as far as getting a single code base to compile for both environments. That, the unified display postscript, the great development environment, etc. seem to make it a natural and *sane* front end to the otherwise fragmented UI world of Linux.

With the relative compatibility to the OS X/OPENSTEP libraries and code re-use, there could be a real network effect by making this a default environment for Linux and other Unixes.

Re:This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linu (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591120)

It WAS championed as the default for GNU, like 10 years ago. Except it took forever go get usable, has like three serious developers and very few applications, and therefore is almost entirely useless to the end user. As for OS X compatibility, name one OS X program that has been ported to GNUStep. Thought not.

If you want an evironment where The Voice Of God comes down and tells everyone stop their C/C++ crap and go write Objective C programs, use OS X. It's never going to happen with Linux.

Re:This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linu (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591244)

"If you want an evironment where The Voice Of God comes down and tells everyone stop their C/C++ crap and go write Objective C programs, use OS X. It's never going to happen with Linux."

Uh...

Re:This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linu (2, Informative)

RevAaron (125240) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591275)

GNUmail.app [collaboration-world.com] is one app that runs on both OS X and GNUstep. I've seen a small handful of others. However, there are some hurdles in porting an OS X app to GNUstep- if you use any Quartz compositing, it just won't work, for one. Or if you use any Carbon convenience functions, or any number of other non-OpenStep APIs that exist within OS X.

But you are quite right in the last part. No way will your average Linux h4ck3r drop C/C++ and go to ObjC. A shame, as ObjC is a lot nicer, but it just won't happen.

Re:This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linu (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591296)

By compatibility with OS X, they mean that a GNUStep app can easily be compiled in OS X. I think that is what they mean at least.

The Reaons Are Obvious (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591236)

It's ugly as hell, and Objective C is a slow and shitty language.

Re:The Reaons Are Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591268)

I'd rather use a dynamic language like Objective-C than C++ any day. C++ is so limiting, it makes me feel like I'm sitting on my hands while programming (to paraphrase Don Yacktman, another Obj-C developer). The only thing people ever seem to complain about anyway is the message-passing syntax, because they (boo hoo) don't like putting colons in the middle of a method name. Never mind its expressiveness. And slow? Come on. Method dispatch is very close to the time it takes to call a virtual function in C++.

Re:The Reaons Are Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591294)

C++ is dying as an application language, and Obj-C is basically in the undead category (unlike C++, there's very little legacy Obj-C code still being supported). So, it's a pointless argument left over from 1993. Get with the times and start writing C#.

Re:The Reaons Are Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591314)

C#?

Does Microsoft even support C# anymore?

Re:The Reaons Are Obvious (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591280)

Oh, gosh, we have another asshole on Slashdot posting anonymously saying trash about something he knows nothing about. What a surprise.

I hate it when twits who have never accomplished anything in life leave little childish flames like this on Slashdot.

yeah but does it.. (1)

glenkim (412499) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591078)

does it run GNU Hurd L4?

Nice Demo (2)

TheMediaWrangler (817300) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591091)

Makes me want to play with GNUstep. Only 2 lines of code for this simple app. The rest was built with the GUI, cool.

Re:Nice Demo (4, Informative)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591132)

Actually, that's not the cool thing. The cools thing is that the simple app with two lines of code implements the Model-Controller-View pattern. This means that this development approach is 100% scalable to large projects. Oh, and the fact that the output from GORM is a set of serialised objects, so you can instantiate them from the code with the same ease that you would create an object from within your code (particularly useful in document based applications where you'd want to create a large number of identical document views connected to different models).

Re:Nice Demo (1)

karniv0re (746499) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591295)

I'm not all too familiar with this. Is the code portable? For all the GUI creation, does it just include a bunch of libraries and code for you? It seems cool, but what are its limitations?

Re:Nice Demo (1)

TheKidWho (705796) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591350)

Yes it is portable. Ie, I could take the source code they used to make the app in the demo, and compile it under OS X and it would work. Or I could compile it under a version of GNUStep for windows, and it would work fine.

Re:Nice Demo (1)

BorgCopyeditor (590345) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591339)

If developing for GNUSTEP is anything like developing for Cocoa, that would be great. But why, oh, why must everything OSS have a supposedly cute, but actually ugly, name like GORM? Or Postgre? It's not clever and it sounds like vomit.

Man screw that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591092)

What we need GNUStep for is as a platform to port OS X software to Windows and Linux, or ideally to turn Cocoa into a common crossplatform development platform of sorts. In that capacity it has the potential to be someday useful, as opposed to just another long-forgotten alternative to

That's never going to happen, is it? Does the GNUStep AppKit even mostly work yet?

"...alternative to GNOME/KDE" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591108)

I hit "submit" by accident. I'm going back to bed.

Re:Man screw that (5, Interesting)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591185)

Yes. Most of AppKit works. The things that don't are largely bells and whistles which are nice but not essential (and even they are being added slowly). The real problem is that you can't use the same interface definition files on both GNUstep and Cocoa at the moment. Work is currently underway on two fronts to fix that:
  1. Adding the ability for GORM to parse XML .nib files from Interface builder.
  2. Compiling GORM on OS X linked against Cocoa rather than GNUstep and using it to create Cocoa .nib files directly.
At least one of these should be possible in the next few months.

The Windows port more or less works (transparency in images is broken. Everything else seems to work). Additionally there is a bundle (not yet in the release) which creates Windows-style menu bars instead of GNUstep ones for use on platforms like Windows, KDE and GNOME which are designed by people with no clue about Fitts' Law.

Additionally, Cameleon, the theme engine developed by the article submitter is nearing completion (it's been ready in the next week since the middle of January), and it will eventually be tied in with native theme engines for other desktop environments (including Windows) to give a completely native look for GNUstep apps.

Re:Man screw that (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591223)

OK. Thank you for your response.

The last time I looked at GNUStep was awhile ago and the Windows Appkit was all crashy at that time. Good to know that's been dealt with.

When the nib files issue gets in some way dealt with be sure to try to submit the news to developers.slashdot, that seems to be the sole remaining nontrivial hassle in using GNUStep as a porting library now.

ISO download sites (5, Informative)

tarzeau (322206) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591095)

Thanks Department of Physics, ETHZ [phys.ethz.ch] , GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso [gnustep.ethz.ch]
Thanks inode.at [inode.at] and Robe GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso [inode.at]
Thanks Lyle E. Dodge [mailto] , GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso [incosy.net]
Thanks Philipp [www.bind.ch] , GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso [gnustep.bind.ch]
Thanks Daniel Aubry [mailto] , GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso [chaostreff.ch]
Thanks Peter Samuelson [mailto] , GNUSTEP-i386-0.9.4.iso [p12n.org]

MOD PARENT DOWN: GOATSE LINK (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591171)

It's horrible oh L-rd

Re:ISO download sites (1)

forkazoo (138186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591219)

Anybody make a torrent yet? I don't have a stable enough connection to host the tracker myself, but given that these mirrors are presumably being slashdotted, I'd like to use a torrent if available.

Is this a full os? (1)

Tilmitt (856895) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591096)

I'm a bit confused, is this a full os or does it run over linux/windows/whatever?

Re:Is this a full os? (1)

lederhosen (612610) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591124)

It runs on Linux and most of the other unixes.

In this case it is on a GNU/Linux live cd

Really like NextStep? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591098)

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but... Is GNUStep really like NextStep, in that it's a development framework with a spiffy highly integrated drag-and-drop environment, etc., etc.... Or is it like AfterStep, where on the surface it's "NeXT-like" but it's only skin deep?

Re:Really like NextStep? (1)

TheRaven64 (641858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591202)

It's a full implementation of the OPENSTEP specification and a partial implementation of Apple's extensions from Cocoa, along with Project Center and Interface Builder applications. It is usually used with the WindowMaker WM to give a 100% NeXTish desktop.

Re:Really like NextStep? (1)

Leo McGarry (843676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591333)

A little from column A and a little from column B.

Imagine it's 1997 again. Mac OS X is still little more than a dream, but NEXTSTEP has past its prime. If the GNUSTEP of today were transported back to the world of 1997, it would be awfully impressive.

Alas, it's not 1997 any more, and while GNUSTEP gets an A for effort, it has no practical application. It's strictly a hobbyist thing.

Darwin (1)

Digital Pizza (855175) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591118)

I wonder how feasible it would be to put GNUstep on top of Darwin/X11? Has anybody tried this?

Re:Darwin (1)

Nimrangul (599578) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591151)

No [gnu-darwin.org] , perhaps [gna.org] you could try googling when curious.

Made with ibuild (3, Informative)

eburner (833625) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591159)

I just wanted to note that this was created based on morphix using a tool called ibuild [livecd.net] that eases creation of Linux LiveCDs.

Developlment IDE (2, Informative)

jd142 (129673) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591163)

Wow, I really appreciate the Borland/Delphi/Kylix/C++ Builder/JBuilder IDE now. Even the VB ide was easier to build a gui app in.

Re:Developlment IDE (1)

Fortun L'Escrot (750434) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591230)

gets me thinking about where Enlightenment is going. now the question is how long does it take to develop say an office suite on GNUSTEP vs KDE or GNOME or Windows XP? in manmonths of course.

Interesting how this post appears.... (4, Interesting)

linguae (763922) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591180)

I was just looking at OpenStep/GNUstep/Cocoa stuff before browsing Slashdot today, and I came here to search for old GNUstep articles. Interesting....

Anyways, GNUstep sounds like a very interesting platform. I have always been fond of NEXTSTEP and Mac OS X, and I have been curious about Objective-C and Cocoa. GNUstep gives me an opportunity to learn Objective-C and the OpenStep specification, before I switch to Mac OS X. I seem very impressed by the development environment, and as soon as I build up my C programming skills and learn Objective-C, I'll be developing programs, too.

I only wish, though, that GNUstep was a bit more popular among developers. GNUstep seems to lack programs such as web browsers, word processors, and spreadsheets. Porting applications such as Firefox, Abiword, and Gnumeric, for example, would be difficult because those applications are written in C++, not in C. (GNUstep still doesn't support Objective-C++, because of some difficulties that Apple and GCC has with Apple's Objective-C++ implementation). Even so, I feel that GNUstep has the potential to become a very powerful and influential platform for developers. If it can build its developer base and developers start building applications that are just as good, or better, than what NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP offered, just imagine the possibilities....

Re:Interesting how this post appears.... (1)

kanweg (771128) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591326)

If you like languages other than Objective-C, you can go the Cocoa way: You can mix it with other languages such as C, C++ and what not.

If you're not too much into programming: The same interface as visible in the Flash demo, can be used to code with AppleScript!

Bert

Too much! (2, Insightful)

fm6 (162816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591213)

This is proof that the LiveCD fad is out of hand. GNUStep's distinguishing feature is an API. How is distributing a LiveCD going to persuade developers to code to that API?

I'm waiting for the MP/M [z80.de] LiveCD!

Re:Too much! (1)

fdawg (22521) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591323)

I agree. I dont see what the point of this cd is. When I was downloading it, I was under the impression that it was running some other GNU kernel and this was an implementation of a 100% GNU system. After reading the comments here, I noticed that is just a linux cd with windowmaker.

A little pointless unless im missing something.

Re:Too much! (1)

drinkypoo (153816) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591347)

getting users to use gnustep will get more developers to write for it. getting more developers to write for it will get more users to use it. boosting either boosts the other.

yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s (3, Insightful)

samhalliday (653858) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591215)

really, it looks terrible.

it is a good framework, and brilliantly implemented in OS X... but this GNU look is really awful! they need artists... LOTS of artists.

i could barely even follow the demo as the IDE and general look of the thing was so confusing and horrible that i wasn't able to even see where the obvious buttons were to press.

they may be doing wonders with implementing the whole framework... but it needs polish.

Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591248)

GNUstep is fully themable.. you can let it look like you want, even such eye-candy stuff like win xp or sth like that.

Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591282)

"GNUstep is fully themable.. you can let it look like you want, even such eye-candy stuff like win xp or sth like that."

Q: Why does Linux UI technology just plain suck?

A: See people who say inane crap like the parent.

Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591327)

I think you just volunteered to draw graphics for a GnuSTEP theme which looks more pleasing. I am sure the GnuSTEP will appreciate your contributions.

This is free software, dude. If you don't like it, you can do more than whine and moan on Slashdot. You can:

  • Contribute artwork to the project
  • Convert GNOME or KDE artwork to GNUstep artwork
  • Pay someone to contribute artwork
  • Donate money to the FSF so they can pay someone to contribute artwork.
  • Whine on Slashdot about how the artwork sucks.
Anyway, if you are using a system every day, it doesn't matter how it looks but how functional it is. I still use FVWM; yes, it's that weird early 1990s MWM look that went out of style when Kurt Cobain was still alive, but it's very fast, has both virtual desktops and a virtual screen larger than one screen (I haven't seen any modern X desktop do this as smoothly as FVWM), and is something that makes for a good tool. I always liked the 1990s Afterstep look myself; to each their own.

One STeP Beyond (3, Interesting)

Doc Ruby (173196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591227)

That demo is pretty nifty. But still too much typing: not just to bind the object interfaces to each other, but also in the controller coding. Is there any way to draw flowchart-style graphical indicators between object interface GUI representations? And any way to drag/drop primitives like the "*" and "=" operators into scopes of objects, much like drag/dropping the GUI textfields into their group? Finally, does it run on Linux ;)?

boring demonstration (1)

rasz (788512) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591228)

10 minutes of clicking to make a fricking calculator ? I almost fell a sleep :(
Does this Gnustep does something usefull for a change ? hmm maybe it has some NEXTSTEP apps ? Like this supercool mail client and network client ?

Re:boring demonstration (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11591312)

Try GNUMail: http://www.collaboration-world.com/gnumail/

And yet there's STILL no distro that (-1, Troll)

melted (227442) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591250)

And yet there's STILL no distro that _out of the box_:
1. _Fully_ supports ACPI (read: works with laptops)
2. Supports current wireless NICs (Intel Pro Wireless 2200 fgzample)
3. Has a polished UI that one would be proud of, without tweaking the hell out of it

Talk about inefficiences of open source software development.

Looks neat, but... (3, Insightful)

david.given (6740) | more than 9 years ago | (#11591324)

The demo's very impressive; I particularly like the connections feature for setting up relationships between different objects. I wish Glade had that.

I do, however, have two minor criticisms.

Firstly, please, please update the look-and-feel. If you want to be taken seriously, don't look like a reject from the 80s. Given GNUsteps modularity, this should be easy enough to do. So, do it. (Tip: application icons should always have labels, because since they're supposed to be unique you can pretty much guarantee they're going to be unfamiliar to someone.)

Secondly, I didn't see any support for layout management in Gorm --- that application was constructed by just placing absolute-sized objects at absolute positions in a window. Please tell me this isn't how you design all applications... because that way leads to inflexible, unscalable, uncustomisable applications, and there's no excuse for that any more. Fixed layouts mean you can't let the user change fonts, because different fonts are different shapes (you can't just scale linearly). Fixed layouts mean wasted screen estate (remember the old Mac file browser dialogues that would float a tiny, eight-line scrollable list in the middle of a 21" monitor?). Fixed layouts are just wrong.

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