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Court Docs Reveal Kazaa Logging User Downloads

timothy posted more than 9 years ago

Privacy 514

Dan Warne writes "The most explosive documents in the ongoing Kazaa court case have emerged today, including logs of discussions between parent company Sharman and the Estonian developer of the Kazaa Media Desktop. They include extraordinary admissions like: "Reporting will make Kazaa look like spyware, as soon as it becomes evident we record downloads and playbacks, users will flee to competitive networks" and then "One can argue that we have knowledge of copyrighted material being downloaded in our network and have to install filters. If we are reporting [gold] files, then technically we could do the same for every file." Finally, "RIAA [could] collect the IP addresses for everyone who has searched for or downloaded that file." Despite the Kazaa developer's concerns over these issues, Kazaa went ahead with the logging." (More below.)

Warne continues "APC Magazine journalist Garth Montgomery, who has covered every day of the trial in the Australian Federal Court, says: "In a nutshell, this has got to rate as the most explosive document revealed. It makes it damn near impossible to maintain the separation theory that Sharman and Altnet rely on in terms of business independence and technical infrastructure. The control they exercise over the system is complete." Montgomery has also scanned in all the documents and made them available in PDF format, including the confidential Kazaa purchase contract and technical specifications for the Kazaa Media Desktop."

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WOW (5, Insightful)

castlec (546341) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595124)

It looks like bye-bye kazaa. It will soon join Napster (The real one, not roxio).

use earth station 5 (3, Informative)

leuk_he (194174) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595260)

They use encryption and promise you will be anonymous. "ES5 hides your IP address while you are uploading and downloading files"

pS, ;)

Once again... (4, Insightful)

laughingcoyote (762272) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595127)

...I am reminded of why I use a reputable, private bittorrent server and alternative (read: under-the-radar) means of P2P. Hasn't this been suspected about Kazaa for quite some time?

Re:Once again... (0, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595159)

I hope its not the http://www.piratebay.org/, since the people behind it roams the DC++ world and download illigal copies of movies and music and the reports the users to their respective ISP so that they will be cut off. I wonder what these people log and do throught their torrent tracker.

Re:Once again... (5, Informative)

laughingcoyote (762272) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595172)

Piratebay is hardly private, although I think your response is a bit of a troll-if they were doing that, they'd hardly have any users left, not to mention they'd be on PG's blacklist by now.

Evidence of what you're claiming aside, though, I've never used piratebay, although I have had a look at their legal correspondence. The site I use has, to my knowledge, not had its url posted here, and I'm not going to change that today.

A good private tracker, registration and ratio required, is a good degree of protection. I've never gotten -one- hit against my protowall while using those torrents.

Re:Once again... (3, Interesting)

JimBoBz (111826) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595199)

"Piratebay is hardly private, although I think your response is a bit of a troll-if they were doing that...."
Although no-one is likely to listen I can attest that it would indeed seem Piratebay is doing just what the grandparent of this says. Download a few torrents from them and find out the hard way....

Re:Once again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595204)

Why would they want to report the users when they're living off them, according to what you claim?

Since that doesn't really make much sense, do you have anything to base your claims on?

Re:Once again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595269)

Why would the people behind a Bittorrent tracker roam the DC++ (a different protocol) world, and report uploaders to their ISP?

Why not just report uploaders on their own tracker?

Am I dense?

Re:Once again... (0, Troll)

irc.goatse.cx troll (593289) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595202)

Generally speaking, if you have access to it and you didnt have to know some really powerful people to get access, and do shittons of favors for them, Its not private.

Learn how to setup LVM, glftpd, eggdrops with sitebot scripts, and remove all logs from a system, AND talk to the right person at the right time. Then you might be on something private.

Re:Once again... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595355)

Learn how to setup LVM, glftpd, eggdrops with sitebot scripts, and remove all logs from a system, AND talk to the right person at the right time. Then you might be on something private.

And you had better be prepared to switch ISPs, because sooner or later one of the "right people" will get caught hosting his node on a hacked server and turn rat to save himself.

Off topic, reply to sig (-1, Offtopic)

PsiPsiStar (95676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595273)

--I think, therefore I am. You don't, so therefore...what, you are not?

Hmm.... I don't know.

Re:Once again... (2, Insightful)

wheatwilliams (605974) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595330)

You use a "reputable" service that facilitates your stealing other peoples' property?

That's an oxymoron.

If you trade pirated media on the service, then neither you nor it are "reputable", by definition.

Next... (-1, Offtopic)

penguinrenegade (651460) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595129)

Next thing you know they'll be telling us that Microsoft Media Player logs versions of other companies' software that is installed on your computer. Oh wait a minute, they already do that too...

WinMX (1)

LucasALC (701722) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595132)

Who wants kazaa when you have WinMX?

Woah (5, Funny)

Jim_Callahan (831353) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595135)

You mean that when I use an electronic network to transfer information, that information travels in orderly patterns that can be tracked? What happenned to the magical fairy of the internet that made all things miraculously anonymous?(/sarcasm)

Skype (1, Insightful)

c0p0n (770852) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595211)

Yeah, you're right :D. This also downs the credibility of Skype to the ground.

Re:Woah (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595263)

Well I guess you should have posted AC.

I could care less (5, Insightful)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595136)

Kazaa has always been the seamy underbelly of the internet. While Napster at least had a little swagger as the slick pirate software, Kazaa has been plagued from the start with spyware and other malware.

Good riddance.

"I could care less" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595177)

You could care less? Then why don't you? You're admitting you at least care a little about this issue!

Re:"I could care less" (2, Informative)

FilthCatcher (531259) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595268)

I found an article on the evolution of "I could care less". (I really have nothing better to do with my time right now)
http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-ico1.htm [worldwidewords.org]
In my opinion it's lazy, wrong and just plain annoying English but then again I don't want to interfere with the natural evolution of language.

So feel free to use whatever you wish - just remember that a lot of people will think you're an idiot for using "I could care less".

Re:"I could care less" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595288)

just remember that a lot of people will think you're an idiot for using "I could care less".

How did you know? You read my mind!

Re:"I could care less" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595317)

It's cheap sarcasm: "Like I could care less." Not exactly a shining exemplar as sarcasm goes, true, but still quite recognizable. You, as well as everyone else who complains about this issue, are only unmasking yourselves as incapable of understanding this form of verbal irony.

Re:"I could care less" (1)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595350)

A poor justification at best. I can understand the implied sarcasm, but in this particular case I don't think it holds. I'd wager that on a great majority of occasions when this version of the phrase is spoken, a sarcastic tone is not implied and that it's simply perpetuated through uninformed familiarity.

Or maybe I just got up early this morning and feel like shit :)

Re:I could care less (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595178)

You mean "I couldn't care less", meaning how much you care is already so miniscule (or zero) that it is impossible to care less. "I could care less", on the other hand, means you care a lot, or at least enough for it to be possible to care less than you do.

Let's let Google help us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595212)

GoogleFight!!! [googlefight.com]

Ahso... So solly... You ruse!

Re:Let's let Google help us (1, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595231)

Thousands of sassy teenaged American girls with crappy websites & livejournals do *NOT* make you right.

Re:Let's let Google help us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595339)

And the inability to grasp this most common form of verbal irony, even if shared by hordes of unimaginative literalists, does not make you right.

Re:Let's let Google help us (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595240)

Haha, great link, thanks.
I accept defeat :)
Or maybe not... Just because more people use the incorrect phrase on the net doesn't make it suddenly the correct one -- remember most of the stuff on the net is written by Americans;) No, seriously, I take it back, I didn't mean it as flamebait.
Funny how the English language is evolving....
I am not a pedant or something, so even if the queen said "I could care less" is right, I decide which is right based solely on what makes more sense to me. And here, as I have explained above, "I couldn't care less" makes complete sense, whereas "I could care less" doesn't (to me, at least).

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595227)

Yeah, well, language evolves [urbandictionary.com] because people are lazy and don't feel like articulating the "n't".... get over it.

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595258)

Which side are you on?
Your link seems to suggest (at least the second definition) that...
Anyway, urbandictionary is just filled by people who have more time on their hands than a grasp of the language they speak in, so it's not a valid argument.(?)

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595271)

The point is that everyone knows very well by now that the "n't" is implied in the phrase "could care less", so you should accept it and move on.

Re:I could care less (4, Funny)

wheany (460585) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595264)

Okay, does that mean that I really should get over it or that I should not get over it? This new English is confusing...

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595282)

The true meaning of "could care less" is only meant to be understood by native English speakers....sorry :)

At least we don't have 2 official languages...

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595289)

Following the logic (if any) for the acceptance of "I could care less", is it reasonable to suppose that soon "Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn" could metamorphosise to "Frankly my dear, I give a damn" and retain the same meaning in the USA? Oh wait, maybe it's already in popular usage....

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595297)

ma'man, logic has no place in this debate

tis about common usage and the language of the streets...as it were, yo.

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595329)

You misunderstand the logic behind "I could care less." It's (cheap) sarcasm--"I couldn't care less" becomes "(Yeah, like) I could care less." Therefore, the proper analogy is "Frankly, I don't give a damn" metamorphosing to "(Yeah, like) I give a damn."

Re:I could care less (4, Insightful)

Hogwash McFly (678207) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595334)

No no, this isn't language evolving, it's just stupidity. What next, people don't feel like articulating apostrophes? People don't feel like distinguishing between they're/there/their (although an alarming number don't already)?

Any time I see someone utter or write the incorrect version of the phrase I picture the kind of person who says the latest catchphrase or buzzword without a clue to its origin and/or meaning.

Call me a snob, but I'm proud of our beautiful language (yet still more forgiving of American English than a lot of my fellow Brits).

Re:I could care less (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595348)

I'm afraid you're the stupid one, not any of the "could care less" people. The phrase "Yeah, like I could care less" is obvious sarcasm; the phrase you object to is a shortened form. I honestly don't see what's so hard to understand here.

In the future, don't be so eager to parade your underdeveloped sense of verbal irony before the world and call it "pride."

What is going on with /. (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595137)

Is it timothydot or something? Why has the last 10+ front page stories been from Timothy? Fallout from losing Michael? What's the story here?

Re:What is going on with /. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595239)

Fallout from
losing Michael?

I wouldn't quite put it that way...

open source (4, Interesting)

jeif1k (809151) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595139)

I think stuff like that shows you why closed source software can't be trusted. I bet bigger companies do similar sorts of things as well, as part of their "software updates" and all the other network traffic they generate.

Re:open source (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595222)

This knee-jerk reaction brought to you by SLASHDOT!

Re:open source (5, Insightful)

Moskie (620227) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595316)

How does Kazaa being closed source make a difference here? Kazaa was tracking requests/downloads server-side... which means, I would think, that there isn't neccessarily any logging going on in the client.

It could have been completely open source, and Kazaa could still keep track off all the requests that your client made.

They are... (5, Insightful)

pmc (40532) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595140)

... so dead.

And stupid. They knew that they were walking a very narrow path with respect to legality. They had to be like Caesar's Wife - not only pure but seen to be pure. But instead they took their behaviour well over the line into things that they knew were illegal. And then recorded the fact that they were doing it.

Breathtaking.

Re:They are... (1)

Threni (635302) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595250)

> ... so dead.

I dunno. Sounds like a list of copyright infringing users would be an ideal element of a plea bargain to me.

They're just clueless (5, Interesting)

Moraelin (679338) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595254)

Well, the recording part is the part that's really sad. It's such massive lack of clue, it's... well, come to think of it, probably standard for management.

And wth is with all these companies and collecting data about their users? Everyone must track you, profile you, and make you go through an intrusive registration just to (for example) download a patch to a product you've bought.

Now I _know_ that you're not really anonymous on the Internet, they can collect a ton of data about you, bla, bla, bla, Sure, they _can_. But do they even have a _legitimate_ use for that data? I.e., one that doesn't boil down to "we can sell the list to spammers later."

Most of the collected data nowadays (and again I don't only mean Kazaa) is plain useless for anything even resembling an aggregate statistic.

E.g., in Kazaa's case can they even do an automated aggregate statistic over the filenames? How? There must be hundreds of different ways to write the same filename, so good luck telling whether more people download Britney Spears or Eminem. Or which genre do people download more. And even if (ad absurdum) they could get an aggregate statistic, what would they do with that data?

E.g., in the case of some companies' intrusive registration forms and out-of-hand data collection, wth are they gonna do with such pieces of trivia as my house number or telephone number? _How_ does one use that in an agregate statistic?

I mean, "How many people bought our product in Europe vs USA?" is a statistic. "How many people with an even house number bought our product?" is at most useless trivia. There is _no_ useful information in there.

Dunno, reminds me of dogs chasing a car. They have no idea what they'd do with it if they caught one, but they just must do it anyway.

Sad.

OMGBBQ! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595142)

Shocking! I think I just peed my pants!
No wait... that was why I don't use spyware infested crap.

Wow (5, Insightful)

gowen (141411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595145)

These people are stupid. Not only do they discuss matters as whether they're arguably criminal conspirators / facilitators -- but they do so in on the record documents, as opposed to quiet chats in the cafeteria.

That's Richard-Nixon-tastic.

Re:Wow (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595331)

which goes to show???

Executive Staff typically are fucking STUPID.

remember this next time you talk to the CTO, CFO or CEO.

these morons think they are gods, yet they are simply little sad men pretending to be leaders.

So... (4, Interesting)

calyptos (752073) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595146)

So does this mean that they can get the logs and go after people who have illegal downloaded media?

Probably. Got your ticket to Brazil ? (4, Funny)

anti-NAT (709310) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595164)

Other contries to consider are Mexico and Argentina.

That should be "countries" (0)

anti-NAT (709310) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595170)

I should proof read more often !

Re:So... (2, Interesting)

PhotoBoy (684898) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595225)

If you're not in the USA the RIAA probably won't care.

I'd be surprised if Kazaa kept logs for more than a few months, the size of the data would be vast. They probably overwrote the logs after they'd got what they needed from them. I suspect the logging was only so they could create stats for each file downloaded to see how well files were spreading.

Re:So... (2, Insightful)

laughingcoyote (762272) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595246)

-Likely- not, the general consensus, to my knowledge, is that a filename is not enough grounds to sue-the company suing must prove -content-. I doubt the Kazaa logs contain a bitprint of each file, likely just an IP address and filename.

Of course, that wouldn't stop them assembling a "people to watch" list-but in reality, I imagine that the **AA's have bots that host on Kazaa and every similar and compile such a list from every IP that comes through 'em. It would be trivial to write such a thing.

But as to launching a lawsuit based just on Kazaa's logs-likely not enough evidence.

Re:So... (1)

sosume (680416) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595347)

IANAL but these logs would probably not be accepted as legally obtained evidence; I think it should be possible to get a court order for the destruction of these logs.

glad i never used kazaa (4, Interesting)

dj42 (765300) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595149)

Creepy stuff. Not that the logs are all the useful -- considering just how many people and IPs will be in them. That's like getting a list of 5 million people... you can't send them all to jail and/or fine them. Or... can they?

Re:glad i never used kazaa (1)

Mishura (744815) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595223)

5 million users downloading illegal material...

About what.. $10,000 or more in fines for one person? Do the math.

I hear a collective "Cha-Ching!!" from RIAA/MPAA execs/lawyers...

Litigation: The 21st century's highest money-making business.

All I can say is that I'm glad I never lowered myself to use Kazaa. Shit, I hope it isn't the same for gnutella.... And what about bittorrent?

Re:glad i never used kazaa (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595333)

Hmm, this is the 21st century?
I learn something new everyday it seems.

Re:glad i never used kazaa (0, Offtopic)

Walkingshark (711886) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595352)

Yeah, tell that to all the people doing hard time for smoking pot.

I'm not surprised (2, Insightful)

Televisor (827008) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595157)

They've been walking a tightrope for years....looked like it just snapped.

Re:I'm not surprised (1)

RizwanK (813432) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595167)

I've long since moved past to BT / i2hub --- or actually _purchasing_ what I want --- Kazaa is what pushed me to hate traditional P2P.

well... (2, Interesting)

Bolshoy Pimpovich (846605) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595173)

It looks like we are going to evolve backwards... everyone will be running back to IRC for their illegal needs.

Re:well... (1)

jcuervo (715139) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595221)

It looks like we are going to evolve backwards... everyone will be running back to IRC for their illegal needs.
Hell, all you'd need is a list of which nicks have what files, and automate DCC sending. I could have an ircII script to do that ready in an hour or two.

Re:well... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595255)

peer2mail with those giga accounts is where its at ba-by

Re:well... (1)

Taiq (846517) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595343)

IRC is fine for small files, such as MP3s and SNES ROMs. But distribution of movies, complete albums, modern game ISOs and the like will be extremely rare. Even TV episodes are difficult -- try something like RewindTV (irc.dejatoons.net). Not many people have connections higher than 512k-- and those that do have 10mbit are so popular, their queues boggle the mind.

They had it coming (5, Insightful)

Pan T. Hose (707794) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595174)

I was assisting in installing KazaA once. It was like: "What do you think," the librarian asked me. "According to this EULA they could log our downloads," I said. "So? Is it good or is it bad?" (She's so cute!) "Bad. I do not authorise it. Remove it, add to the black list, never bother me again." Now, if anyone is screaming bloody murder because a program does something that was explained explicite or implicite during the installation, one is not the brightest individual under the Sun if you ask me.

You might need to see her again, (0, Offtopic)

anti-NAT (709310) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595230)

to help you with your spelling. It is explicit or implicit .

I realise English could be your second language, you can use that as a reason to get even more sympathy from her.

Re:They had it coming (1)

Mishura (744815) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595238)

Just how many people actually take the time to read a EULA; and how many people can actually read legalese (Some fuckup dialect of english)?

I know that I don't read all my EULAs (Maybe I should..) but when I do, I often get a good laugh at some of the stuff in them.

For instance, I was reinstalling Win98 on a computer latenight, and decided to actually read MS's EULA. Interesting read if you can understand legalese. Read the part about using JAVA. If memory serves, "Using JAVA may cause your computer to crash, rendered useless..." and something else about using it on Air-Traffic controllers. (it's been a year, I don't remember everything) Then again, they may be right about Java, heh heh..

Management ignored the developers? (4, Funny)

vought (160908) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595185)

Despite the Kazaa developer's concerns over these issues, Kazaa went ahead with the logging.


News Flash!

Management may at times ignore developer concerns, although developers can have insight into the customer base not obvious to management.

It's been that way at every company I've worked at...and usually ended up in tears.

Tears for customer support, that is.

Film at 11.

Developers ignored themselves? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595327)

Management may at times ignore developer concerns, although developers can have insight into the customer base not obvious to management

News Flash

Developers may at times ignore their own sense of morals, although they have insights into the illicit usage of the software they create, they think they can wash their hands of it by "warning" management.

Film at 11:15 (it can be downloaded at 10:55)

oh ! (-1, Flamebait)

hansley (319917) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595187)

s.h.1.t

I'm shocked... (-1, Redundant)

Prof.Phreak (584152) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595191)

...a reputable program like KaZaA acting as spyware? I'm shocked I tell ya. Shocked.

Who installed Kazza Media Desktop??? (5, Insightful)

NoSuchGuy (308510) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595197)

Seriously only internet newbies, grandmas & grandpas installed the Kazza Media Desktop. All other installed Kazza Lite (No Adware!) or eDonkey.

Later all eDonkey [edonkey2000.com] users switched to Overnet [overnet.com] and later on to eMule [emule-project.net] and BitTorrent [bitconjurer.org]

An open source P2P application is more safe in use than a closed source application because clever people can read and understand the code.

Oh I forgot:
1) Idea
2-6) see above
7) ???
8) No Profit
9) Sued by RIAA/MPAA...

Re:Who installed Kazza Media Desktop??? (1)

Mishura (744815) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595247)

Indeed. This is one area where you simply CANNOT trust anything unless there is source code for scrutinization, and if you download a binary package, make sure it is from a source you can trust; or compile it yourself.

Re:Who installed Kazza Media Desktop??? (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595272)

There seems to be a lot of Asses out there.

Re:Who installed Kazza Media Desktop??? (5, Insightful)

andyr (78903) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595322)

only internet newbies, grandmas & grandpas installed the Kazza Media Desktop. All other installed Kazza Lite

The server still tracks your downloads.

I wonder... (3, Insightful)

GreatBunzinni (642500) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595198)

...if other "reputable" download services like soulseek are up to the same wrongdoings as kazaa. How can anyone know for sure?

Re:I wonder... (0, Flamebait)

dn15 (735502) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595270)

The question is, were they reputable to begin with? I never used Kazaa but I understand the standard version included spyware or adware.

I don't want to sound like some FOSS fanboy, but we need to step back and consider the state of Windows software today. You're putting your privacy at risk every time you install anything that's not open-source (or from a very upstanding developer) on that platform. It doesn't hurt to be a bit paranoid and assume the developer is guilty until proven innocent when it comes to closed Windows apps.

Re:I wonder... - - "Flamebait?" (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595302)

Flamebait? Isn't that a little harsh? He's just saying that many Windows apps have hidden spyware and such.

I've been modded down many times for saying this (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595200)

but it's the same deal with Microsoft, I cant prove it... nor could anybody else prove the truth with kazaa. But it's happening. The u.s. government infiltrated microsoft software engineering years ago... It's all part of a strategy, for as long as it can survive. No long term goals, just doing whats necessary to keep the upper hand on America's side.

And now all you microsoft flunkies and capitalist pigs can mod me down as usual. This site has gone to hell.

Just KMD? (4, Interesting)

lachlan76 (770870) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595224)

Is it just KaZaa Media Desktop that is affected by this, or is it done on the server end, thereby logging downloads by ALL clients, such as giFT-Fastrack?

My ISP (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595229)

I trust my old ISP's ineficient databases. I'm sure my IP isn't logged anymore. And I have been using Donkey for a long time...

The revolution will not be webcast (5, Insightful)

flopsy mopsalon (635863) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595236)

What strikes me as remarkable is that anyone thinks so-called "lawsuits" of this nature will in any way stem the Niagra-like flow of files being shared on computer networks.

As with the United States' ill-fated experiment with "Prohibition" back in the 1930s or whenever it was, attempts to pressure a legitimate society-wide demand with artifical "legal" constraints simple result in a Newtonian counterforce of equal strength

Mark these words it is only a matter of time before the RIAA and company unleash one legal sully too many and the citizenry responds with clandestine acts of violence and possibly even people and/or animals.

It is clear that the individuals behind Kazaa are just a bunch of crooks trying to get rich of bootlegged goods, but so were the rum-runners of yore, and in the end, after much bloodshed and suffering , it was seen that rum could indeed be run legally with out the "sky", as it were, "falling". Let us hope those in power today come to a similar realization soon.

Re:The revolution will not be webcast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595338)

What strikes me as remarkable is that anyone thinks so-called "lawsuits" of this nature will in any way stem the Niagra-like flow of files being shared on computer networks.

Nope, setting legal precadent and bolstering the industries arguments for counter-measures.

Re:The revolution will not be webcast (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595346)

They already sell songs legally. They sell them in shops and they sell them on the web.

logged IP addresses (4, Informative)

mincognito (839071) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595242)

If you read the article carefully, unlike the submitter, you will find that gold files (and all searches?) were logged while 'illegal' downloads *could* have been logged. But the article is very vague. Where are those scanned documents??

Re:logged IP addresses (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595357)

I should add that the submitter Dan Warne actually works at APC.

another reason to roll your own network (1)

mpesce (146930) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595252)

The sad part is that most of the folks using Kazaa simply didn't know any better. Yes, there are lots of better alternatives to bloated sacks of spyware - but many of them are still to hard for most people to use. Or people simply haven't heard about them. (Some of the world still does not read /. -- I know this is obscene, but we've got to play the hand we're given.)

There ought to be a campaign "Geeks don't let friends use spyware" or something. Heh. Make a vow today to give your friends safe P2P software - it's the gift that keeps on giving!

Glad... (5, Funny)

BrookHarty (9119) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595256)

Glad I only use Kazaa for porn!

Thats my story and I'm sticking with it. (That was a bad pun...)

Re:Glad... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595278)

Wait a month, Kazaa will send you a letter:

Dear Brook Harty,

Do you want your wife/church/little league to know that you downloaded "gay anal semi-pedophilic porno S&M club parts 1 - 22"? If not, please contribute to our legal fund. Thanks!

The Kazaa Team

A place to post anything (for the trolls) (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595261)


Here is a site at www.employeessuck.com where you
can post anything you want (its the site's bulletin board).
.

Out of Context (3, Insightful)

N8F8 (4562) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595262)

Folks, lelieve it when you see it. Make sure to read the caveat at the bottom of the page: Folks, take these ramblings as the virtually unedited observations from each day of the Kazaa trial. At best, it's anti journalism. The other side is going to misconsture everything in their favor and present it that way to be as damaging as possible.

eMule? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595266)

Ok, so how do I know that my client, eMule, isn't like this?! Bittorrents won't do because the trackers are already being raided in Europe and users are harassed.

Can Skype be trusted? (3, Interesting)

matthew.thompson (44814) | more than 9 years ago | (#11595277)

IF this sort of action was taken at KaZaa what decisions of a similar nature are being taken at Skype?

I know that I use it for personal calls with no inherrent value but there are compaanies who are starting to use it to cut inter-office and employee communications bills - they could very easily be concerned about this.

Re:Can Skype be trusted? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595324)

Using Skype for inter-office comms? Your kidding right? Why when there is an open standard that can do so much more, namely SIP.

Skype is for newbies that have no clue.

Skype? (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595280)

What ramifications does this have for Skype? If it seems the company is not trustworthy, then no amount of "this is not spyware" will allay users' fears now.

Stop the Bullshit Now (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595285)

I've had enough of /. lately, whats with the unchecked facts? I know it's claimed that its up to the users in comments to identify this, but when the site constantly posts such trashy and unsubstantiated nonsenese it's hard to keep the faith.

For example, they're not actually logging file downloads, nor what you do. All they acknowledged is that they do this for Altnet, which you must have figured out (How can you buy a file from Altnet without the owner knowing about it?), and that they could potentially do this for Kazaa if they were so inclined and able:-

"Pritt: Posting stats to to 3rd party servers...."

it starts. But then, the fact of the matter follows:-

"Of course we won't know about downloads and playbacks of non-signed content, but it doesn't make a difference because:-

1) It's hard to communicate this to lawyers and users.
2) If we are reporting signed files [Ed: Altnet] then technically we can do the same for any file."

See for yourself, http://www.apcmag.com/apc/v3.nsf/0/2F22997D6933B15 ECA256FA1000FB45F/$FILE/TopSearch%20specifications .pdf

Bottom of page 4.

In other words, they only logged what they said they would in the user agreement, but they didn't broadcast it because people who don't check their fucking facts will post it on large public forums for debate, and immediately leap to all the wrong conclusions.

It's not the dynamite people think it is. All it shows is that they can log, it means that the next few moves are foretold:-

1) The argument will be made that they can log, and therefore are complicity.

2) The counter-argument will be that logging on
such a scale is an invasion of privacy, illegal and out of the scope of the user agreement.

3) The argument will be made that the agreed upon logs with the users can be used as evidence against P2P users. It's not a serious logistical blow, but will be the *real* credibility damage Kazaa will face.

The endgame is either a Kazaa concession to log all activity, another sale to a different country or just a block on un-authorized files through a deliberately dis-incentivised weak version of Kazaa noone will want, and the winding down of the network will play to the Napster tune.

Uh Oh (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595304)

So that's what 100 Million people shitting their pants at the same time sounds like.

I believe I speak...... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11595315)

I beleieve I speak for the whole slashdot community when I say: what a bunch of assholes.
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