What Do You Charge for Tech Support? 1168
war3rd asks: "Years ago I used to offer tech support for friends and family (for free), and ended up doing it for everyone they and I knew. I cut it out because it was taking too much of my time, but I've been getting more and more requests lately due to everything from viruses, spam, spyware, as well as aging PC with Windows 98 and ME (oog!) on them still. I was thinking of saying OK to requests that are convenient, but I want to make it worth my while. So I ask, I'm sure that some of you out there must do this, what is the general going rate for basic user tech support (i.e. getting someone's home machine cleaned up and back to normal email & web browsing capability)?"
"I assume that there is probably some range in different parts of the country, but I'm curious anyway. And let's just assume that I live in the Tri-State area around New York City (can you say 'overpriced?'). I figure I should be able to pull in enough to feed my ever-present desire for better hardware, but on the other hand, I don't want to be a jerk and gouge people who should be able to trust me with their machines. So what to other Slashdot users charge for their tech support services?"
Business or Personal? (Score:5, Insightful)
However, if you really get so many tech support requests, you may consider setting up a side business, that way you have made yourself commercially available and people know they need to pay for your service.
If they don't want to pay, they know not to call you. If they do call you but not expecting to pay, you can give good excuses like you're so busy with your new business that you can only visit them "later" (so much later that they solved the problem themselves).
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Insightful)
helpdesk support wants to be free (Score:5, Funny)
nobody rides for free! "
Re:helpdesk support wants to be free (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:4, Insightful)
The funny thing is, the people i hate to help the most are my parents. I dunno if it's a mental block of soem sort, but i seem to get most irritated when they do stuff to their computers.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Interesting)
(/spelling nazi)Maybe when you were in "colledge" you should have focused more on spelling and grammar. =)
The funny thing is, the people i hate to help the most are my parents. I dunno if it's a mental block of soem sort, but i seem to get most irritated when they do stuff to their computers.
It's not that uncommon. We tend to have more emotional baggage with parents than with anyone else, even spouses and children. When I help out my dad on the computer, I just pretend he's retarded, even to the point of talking really slowly. (Basically as far as computers go, he is retarded. I can't tell him to click on an application, I have to tell him to click on the picture of the compass or the postage stamp with the eagle on it.) Oh, I also bought him an eMac, which was one of the better investments I've ever made. Thank god for one button mice!
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Interesting)
you're right about that though... come to think of it, i get fustrated with my GF a lot too, when it comes to computer aid.
The worst part about my father though.. is he's NOT computer illiterate. He was writting in basic back in our C-64 days. Even wrote a program that a doctor was using for his research. He's built his own box before, does video editing and everything... i just get fustrated when asked to help him d
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Funny)
don't bother me with triffles.
ah, the truffle with triffles.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Funny)
(markup language nazi) So why did you turn off the appropriate tag before the text is was supposed to refer to? (/markup language nazi)
(/smartass)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Interesting)
All I need to do now is get in good with a auto repair shop and all my major expenses are taken care of!
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Informative)
However, all of these clients were quite wealthy. I always tried to cater everything towards the client. Some of them weren't as wealthy and didn't pay as much. I told them if they didn't feel like I was worth the money, they should pay me what they felt I was worth - it was then my decision to come back or not the next time they needed me. I'm also a softie, so some people did get away with paying me very little, but I figured it all worked out for everyone.
I carried myself in a professional and friendly manner, so they continued to ask me to come back. When I told one of my clients that I was moving across the country, he asked if he could finance a business for me to run - that way I wouldn't have to move. I politely declined and he has since asked if he could fly me back to work on his computer.
Now, people where I live now aren't as rich as that - I do a lot of free work here, but I also explain to people that since I'm not getting paid, things may take me longer to get around to. I think most people realize that they get what they pay for - or don't pay for, such as the case may be. I also do a lot of bardering. I have one friend that I help with computer stuff and he helps me with my car maintenance.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:4, Informative)
I don't know where you live, but where I live, it's not that difficult. To be a sole proprieter, all I have to do , is charge for my services. As long as I am not selling a tangible good, I do not have to worry about sales tax. If any hardware or software needs to be purchased, I make a reccomendation to the customer on what they need to buy, and where they can buy it from. This works out nice. The reseller is getting the sale and has to charge and pay the state taxes, and I get refferal business from the reseller. I then have a spread sheet on my PC that I use to print invoices. Once the invoice is paid, i save a copy for when I file my personal income taxes. I then I writr off a portion of my mortgage/utilities/car insurance/mileage/etc. as business expenses. Running a legal business, does not have to be that difficult, as long as you keep it small.
In case any one is wondering:
Family and close friends I don't charge
Home users I charge $20.00/hour,
Businesses, I charge $65/hour plus travel expenses. I'm not looking to get rich, I'm just looking to support my own hardware habit.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are a number of companies here in town who will repair your PC for $40-$50 an hour, but you have to bring it to them. Then there are the guys who come out to you
Barter your services (Score:5, Insightful)
I know people who can easily fix a leaking pipe or lend me some decent power tools, but have no clue about computers... getting on their good side can save you a bunch of money at a later point.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Interesting)
(That, and I don't like wine.)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:4, Funny)
$50 an hour if you watch.
$100 an hour if you help.
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:5, Funny)
Same here, and it amazes me how many people offer beer as payment. How many people would offer beer to a mechanic before he fixes their brakes on their car before and while he does the work?
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Funny)
Which, the clutch or the bourbon?
Market vs. Cost (Score:5, Informative)
1. cost model: If you were doing this as a living, you'd understand that you'd have a portion of your time that you could actually be out billing, vs. a portion you're unable to bill. Researching things, fixing things for people that end up not paying, fixing things that you goofed up the first time and don't bill for the second time, and being idle are all unbillable times. While I've seen models where employeers pretend they can have people 80% or higher billable, this places great stress on the system long-term. At 50%, you're going to have to factor the downtime. So, if you want to make $50,000/year, at 50% billable (on 50 weeks worked), that's 1,000 billable hours a year = $50/hour (easy math). But you might find additional expenses you need to include, like taxes and social security (oops! there goes a huge chunk), health insurance, general liability insurance (if you do this, I'll guarantee you'll eventually have someone sue you for something assuming you have deeper pockets than they do) current and legal licenses to software, a new laptop every year (they get beat to hell traveling), Internet connectivity, cell phone bill, etc. - and you're suddenly up over $60/hour.
2. comparative model: My plumber in my small town charges $70/hour. I'd argue that my nonstop education in technology (vs. his rather static field) deserves at least $10/hour more, not to mention the college education appropriate for it. $80/hour is my "plumbing rate" in the Midwest. Fixing PCs or running cables = plumbing.
3. service model: If you're able to do much more than "computer plumbing", charge appropriately for the job. I'm a certified security analyst, so I charge $155/hour when doing assessments (cheap actually). I charge $125/hour for Cisco engineering.
4. "bill" your gratis accounts: I take care of some little old ladies and relatives in town. I let them know (and occasionally will print a courtesy invoice with the actual charge and credit applied) how much it really costs. I ask them to donate to a charity - the church ladies all do so to our church, and church has new gravel covering the parking lot, utility bills paid and other important things from a tiny bit of computer work from me.
The best thing you can do is enforce that the computer world is a business and a profession. I encountered a "do it for free" attitude when I moved here due to a 20-year-old hack that did so. When you give it away without any cost, you make it worthless and cause people to think what we do is not legitimate. Electricians, plumbers and other technicians all have to feed their families and pay their bills. Neglect your car and demand free repairs, and you'll suffer the consequences. Computer techs need to help the public understand their PC is no different than their car in this manner.
Re:MOD AC UP PLEASE (Score:3, Interesting)
I worked with a gal who was clearly abusing some sort of substance. She was a total psycho. Early in the week she would be pretty zoned out, later on in the week she would turn into a raving nutjob. She would burst into hysterics and abuse entire rooms full of people for no reason.
I figu
Re:Reasonable Service Rate $50/hr (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Business or Personal? (Score:3, Insightful)
My plans (Score:3, Informative)
$50 for the first hour of work. $30 for each addition hour of work I do for them. Usually I resolve the issues in the first hour. If the issues are more prone to fully formatting a box, I usually take it home and charge them $50 for my time at home.. since honestly, formatting / installing drivers takes time but not enough time to waste their money.
If it is something like their computer doesn't work (and its rather stupid) I usually just ask for gas money + $20. I usually always work for a friend, or a friends friend.. I don't do professional calls (e.g. companies) unless, again, are small and a friends company.
Eric
P.S. I used to do the whole "$50 to wipe it, $20 to install hardware, $15 to install software" thing, but when I started dealing with friends of friends, I upped it.
Re:My plans (Score:3, Insightful)
Here's the deal: call around and ask local plumbers and auto mechanics what their labor rate is. Find an average and charge that rate for your computer services. It'll be in the ball park of $85+, unless you're in a semi-rural area. Run your service in a similar fashion to these other service professionals: Document a description of the problem, provide an estimate, and get the customer's signature. Go in with a completely pr
Re:My plans (Score:3, Insightful)
Wear a shirt and possibly even a tie.
I agree with the sibling poster. I would always w
Re:My plans (Score:5, Insightful)
Here's the deal: call around and ask local plumbers and auto mechanics what their labor rate is. Find an average and charge that rate for your computer services. It'll be in the ball park of $85+, unless you're in a semi-rural area.
No, he's probably not professional. The reasons plumbers and electricians can charge so much are they are 1- licensed, but mostly 2- they're insured. I can demand $200 an hour, and when the client asks why I charge so much, I can say that all my work is *insured*, that any damage I might unintentionally cause will be covered by the insurance company. The neighbor's kid may charge less, but what happens if he drops a coke into the laptop? What happens if he destroys all the data? What recourse do you have? Because professionals are insured, they can charge more because there's less risk.
Re:My plans (Score:3, Insightful)
If something takes longer to fix than you think it should have, then you can offer to knock down the price afterwards. If it takes way too long, maybe you're in the wrong business.
For a family member? (Score:5, Funny)
Re:For a family member? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:For a family member? (Score:4, Informative)
Reconsider (Score:4, Insightful)
My rule is that I will fix friends and family members computers if I happen to have the time and they clearly appreciate my help and don't see it as my obligation. If they offer to pay me, I'll ask for a dinner sometime or just a case of Bass beer.
Trust me, taking money is more hassle than it will be worth.
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Insightful)
I also want my brother-in-law to be a little beholden to me, because he's good with doorknobs, and I'm an idiot around doorknobs, and I'm going to need a doorknob upgrade soon (this may sound like a stupid example, but it happens to be absolutely real).
If my brother-in-law needs more than I can handle, then I'll help him choose a consultant that he can pay (and be mad at when his machine fills back up with goo).
So... I don't usually charge for basic support. I do it when I have the time, for people I like.
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Funny)
What's "doorknobs" your secret word for?
Re:Reconsider (Score:4, Insightful)
When I fix someones computer, I tell them that they have to follow my rules inorder for the 'warrenty' on my tech support to be valid and they include:
1) Never open Internet Explorer again, use Firefox.
2) Never open Outlook Express again, use Thunderbird.
3) Use ZoneAlarm and don't allow 'random' programs to access the internet and don't allow anything to act as a server.
4) Schedule weekly virus/spyware/adware scans and update the definitions before scanning.
Failure to comply with these rules (which I tell them I can verify if they have been following the rules), will void the warrenty on my service and result in an additional charge if they require additional support. Harsh, but I don't get too many extra support calls
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Interesting)
Oh, and I charge $35/hr.
Yes Yes Yes (Score:5, Insightful)
Helping for free leaves them indebted to you instead of you to them. It's a great way to generate goodwill, as well as a nifty way to receive an unexpected favor later. I'd say it's better to have a positive accounts-receivable column, even if you never see a dime.
Taking money is opening up a can of worms. Blood is thicker than water... but the one thing that's thicker than blood is MONEY. People have this attitude (and sometimes rightly so) that as long as they're paying you, they have a leash on you... they then bother you/demand things from you, often out of proportion to the amount of money exchanged. That's a sticky situation to get into with family, friends, and coworkers. Do you want some kind of disgruntled attitude/tension between you and your friends? I don't.
Just by doing it for free, I've received all sorts of gifts in kind. Those gifts have included computer hardware, gift certificates, beer, lunch, etc, etc. I NEVER solicit such gifts, and I always make an effort to turn them down. That may sound odd, but I actually enjoy working on computers, and my day job already involves helping others (I'm an ER physcian, so I already see plenty of no-pay/self-pay/uninsured patients for free; doing the same to the occasional computer just doesn't bother me that much)
Then there's the simple act of doing something nice for people... sometimes that's its own reward.
Re:Yes Yes Yes (Score:3, Informative)
You know, it's funny: I've noticed the opposite effect. Now mind you, I was doing work when I was young.
If I fixed someone's computer for free, if something messed up later it was my fault. My advice was also completely ignored, as I was not "knowledgable."
If I charged a little for my services, I would indeed be beholden to them for outrageous demands ($10 to fix a computer turned into a complete re-installation, a 2-hour hardware isolation job [bad power supply, as it turned out], and recovering all th
Precisely (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Informative)
They asked me to help them order a computer (dell) and when that computer started to malfunction they kept calling me - and I kept telling them "you bought this from Dell call Dell."
One time they did an OS upgrade (a year after I setup their network) and their network connection on that computer started to malfunction. I did charge them $200 for me having to drive to their place, figure out what they did, and then reinstall the networking files.
I feel bad in some ways - but then realize that they are a business - they charge people and so should I. You may want to register as an LLC. It protects you legally (lawsuits) and you can do a lot of tax deductions...one company tried getting my SS# so they could list me as an employee and run taxes on me, etc. I told them no way...they can cut me a check to my business. They wanted that EIN number - again no way. B2B they only need your business name (only one business per state with that name allowed anyhow).
In the end, make it clear as to what you are offering. Even better, put it in writing and have them sign it. Make it a simple/stupid document and you are pretty well covered.
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Funny)
I feel bad in some ways
You feel bad because this crap is so easy for you because you're an alpha geek. But consider, others are not alpha geeks because while you were tinkering with computers, they were out getting laid and partying.
Now they're calling you.
You gave up sex, drugs and rock and roll to be this good. Make it pay off. ;)
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Insightful)
,
I told him "you charge $60/hour for your labor rates, i am charging you $50/hour...you are getting a better deal"...he didn't like the price, so he got nothing
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Insightful)
But on the other foot, he would have no questions about charging us $15000 for one of his products/services.
It pisses me
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Insightful)
Fixing your leaky faucet is easy for him. Fixing his spyware infestation is easy for you. But both require a certain expertise in your respective fields.
No, no, not THAT plumbing....
Re:Reconsider (Score:5, Informative)
Actually, this isn't true. A standard part of a corporate vendor relationship is giving your client information, such as your EIN. For your information, they are legally required to file a 1099 with the IRS covering all payments that they made to you in any year where the total exceeded $600. To file that 1099 they need either your SSN if you're an individual/dba, or your EIN if you're a corporation. Its not just standard practice, its the law. This filing can be waived for some forms of corporations, but not all of them.
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Reconsider (Score:3, Insightful)
$90. (Score:5, Interesting)
Are you kidding? (Score:4, Funny)
I barter.... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I barter.... (Score:5, Funny)
given up on getting a girlfriend, eh? :)
Re:I barter.... (Score:5, Funny)
[I get away with this 'cause she doesn't read
Re:I barter.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Nothing illegal about this - and it would be hard to make illegal... "Hm Your Honor, my brother fixes my car for free...and yes I do fix his computer for free...he is my brother afterall"
Re:I barter.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Whatever the market will bear (Score:3, Informative)
I'm in the same boat (Score:5, Informative)
In my professional life I've charged two hourly rate: $100/hr and $50/hr. I can't ask Ma and Pa Rancher/Farmer for that. I would think that undercutting what the area computer shops would charge would be acceptable. When I did service work at an Apple Specialist shop we charged a $45 bench fee for all computers and a $75 bench fee for all laser printers, just to take a look at them. Then our hourly rate was $50/hr. The markup on parts was anywhere for 40% to 200%. That was in '98. If I charged $15 or $20 an hour and maybe something for gas if I had to drive more than 5 miles or so, wouldn't that be agreeable with these rural customers? They'd have to drive 40 miles one way to get to the nearest town with a computer shop. With gas prices the way they are, that adds up fast.
One thing I don't hesitate to do is recommend buying a new computer. Most of these rural folks have ancient systems, at least by today's standards. If the machine is still useable and they understand that they can't run new software on the old machine, I'll help them fix it, even if it's replacing hardware like a bad HD. I highly recommend they replace the machine if they are trying to run new software on a circa '97 Windows 95 machine. It's just too old. I also never recommend the buying computers at the area Ma and Pa computer stores. I always recommend they buy from a larger company with an established reputation, support and warranty system, and will be here next month or next year when the machine has problems. I recommend Dell or Gateway to those people. I tell them about the back to school specials and help them find a system that fits their needs. I figure that's a much better suggetion than to tell them to go to Best Buy or CompUSA and pick up the special of the week. Sure the individual piece of hardware has a warranty, but if Ma and Pa Computer Shop closes up, they're not going to be able to find anyone else willing to figure out what's under warranty and what's not on an old machine. Thoughts on this?
I always set the folks up with some of the better pieces of free software like Mozilla or Firefox, Thunderbird, AntiVir, AdAware, and others. I tell Windows to auto-update without user interaction (something I'd never do on my own machine, but something that necessary on a novice's computer IMHO).
I'm not sure what the best price range is but I know one thing. We can't afford to do it for free all the time.
Don't charge everyone (Score:4, Insightful)
$499 (Score:5, Funny)
My standard (Score:5, Informative)
Don't involve yourself with home users (Score:5, Insightful)
With mid-size companies, you can have 100 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 100 tyrants with 100 problems who if they write you a check for $100 will think you owe them your first born.
With large-size companies, you can have 5 customers and make yourself wealthy. You will also be serving 5 people who don't give a rats ass what you do or don't do for them and who if they write you a check for $100,000 will think it's OK if you don't return their call for a few weeks.
This is a slight exaggeration but the basic tenet is true. Don't focus on small fish or you'll be sorry.
Re:Don't involve yourself with home users (Score:5, Interesting)
My fiance is a speech pathologist and told me about an ethical point of her profession that could be applied here. She cannot, within ethical guidelines, take money for services rendered to someone who continuously violates their plan for treatment. For example, people who smoke while receiving voice therapy, people who don't practice their speech as they're told, generally people who make no effort to help themselves.
A boilerplate agreement that customers who don't run antivirus/spyware packages, don't use firewalls, insist on opening strange attachments,etc have support services terminated may get people to take this stuff seriously.
Re:Don't involve yourself with home users (Score:5, Interesting)
Detroit has one of the worst job markets in the country right now; especially in IT. So, I decided rather than compete, I'd start my own business repairing home users' PCs - I charged $65/hour, less than those incompetant know-nothings from the Geek Squad, and provided good service. I had happy customers, and made a good living without wasting an entire day rotting away behind a desk.
For about 3 months, it was great, then I started expanding my customer base. For every good, repeat customer I had, I had to deal with 3 other know-nothings that'd break break their systems the moment I walked out the door, then call me back, demanding I "fix it right." Education? It was worthless. Switching browsers? They'd agree to try Firefox, and be back using IE 5 minutes later.
I had some customers who made it their point to visit every shady poker, porn, and warez site on the web, open every attachment on every strange email, and somehow break any anti-virus solution I implimented. Then, they'd call me up and want me to either come back and fix it (for free), or sit there and walk them through it on the phone.
These days, I have a low-level support job part time and go to the university full time. I make about 1/5th what I did a year ago, but there isn't a regret in my mind about leaving that business behind. It was miserable and frustrating. Now, I just do PC work for friends and family, and am trying to get them all converted over to Macs, since they're largely idiot-proof. And when I do tech support? They understand it's not a permanant fix, especially if they don't follow my advice, and I don't charge. Make me dinner, do me a favor, buy me some beer, just... whatever. I won't take money, because the second it reaches that level, they think you owe them
Re:Don't involve yourself with home users (Score:3, Informative)
The BOFH would electrocute you pansies and laugh while doing it.
The same misanthropic personality that drives so many of us to become geeks, sitting in basements playing D&D or celebrating when troublesome code finally compiles does not translate well into a capitalist, opportunistic state of mind. While we're all too happy to spawn camp somebody anonymously over the internet, ruining his evening of fun (everybody has
I never charge cash... (Score:3)
I'll fix your computer if you babysit my kids next Friday.
I give folks a list (Score:5, Insightful)
Do not go under 20 dollars an hour (Score:5, Insightful)
Sure, you will lose customers this way, but those are customers you'd want to lose anyway. The cheap naggers who are unwilling to learn anything aren't worth the trouble.
Re:Do not go under 20 dollars an hour (Score:4, Informative)
First, think about the total number of hours you're able to bill in a week. Trust me when I say that you will have a hard time billing more than 50% of the time you spend "working", based on the amount of time you spend travelling getting to and from customers, the time you spend dealing with the financial side of being self-employed, the time you spend getting new business (even taking phone calls or e-mails from prospective customers) and such.
Assuming a 40 hour work week, that's 20 billable hours a week, or (assuming a 2 week vacation), 1000 billable hours a year. At $20 / hr, you're billing down a whopping $20k.
But wait... you don't get to take all that home. First of all, you need liability insurance and professional errors & ommissions insurance. That is, unless you feel like going bankrupt when someone trips over the bag you left in the middle of the floor and gets brain-damage from hitting their head on a table.
There's also health insurance, which you have the honor of paying for yourself. And self-employment taxes to uncle sam. And an extra phone line. And that new laptop, external hard drive, copies of Quickbooks, Acronis True Image, etc.. etc.. etc..
In fact, it's quite common for independent consultants to "take home" only 50% of what they "make".
And anyway, if you're any good, you're worth more than $20 / hr. Take a hint from the plumbers and electricians... $80/hr+ is really what you need to be thinking.
And if someone complains about $80, tell them to call up "Geeks on Call" or "Geek Squad". Geek Squad doesn't show up for less than $160 guaranteed.
-R
Re:Do not go under 20 dollars an hour (Score:3, Interesting)
It hurts the client's pocketbook just enough that they recognise they've "bought a breakable", and they're more likely to make some effort to keep it "unbroken". So they're more likely to do as told when it comes to avoiding spyware etc. If they persistently and KNOWINGLY do stupid things, you're not charging them enough (the pain in their wallet isn't yet bad enough to discourage the bad behaviour).
Beer! (Score:3, Funny)
$75/hr on-site $35/hr on my bench (Score:3, Interesting)
If they bring it in to me I take it home and only charge for the time I actually work on the thing.
IE if I have to run spybot I charge for the time installing it and starting it and then I kick back and watch some tv or flip over to my computer and read slashdot. An hour or 2 later I'll check on their computer and clikc a few clicks and then go back off the clock while it reboots or whatever.
This has worked out well for me and with a KVM switch it's no big deal to work on 2 or 3 computer simultaneously.
G
A pound of flesh. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:A pound of flesh. (Score:3, Funny)
Just don't forget to mention in the specifics that in taking that pound of flesh, the person in question may or may not bleed, and this isn't your problem, and it's their responsibility to have adequate medical care, spare blood, and cleaning supplies handy, as may be required.
Segment Segment Segment (Score:3, Informative)
First off, don't charge anything to anyone in your immediate family or friends. This ideally should be a group of at most about five people.
Second, think about the possibility of trading and/or bartering services, whether formally or informally. Surely at some point it will be beneficial if you can count on free/reduced services from, say, a plumber, or a real estate agent, or an attorney, or any number of people.
Then charge everyone else. I would do it officially and get a business license which is probably not too expensive and you can recoup the costs after 25 hours of work, I would guess. (Again, maybe an accountant or attorney can help you incorporate in this case). Then charge something like $25 per visit plus $15 per hour, or whatever you feel your time is worth. The people you are charging are customers, and you are legitimately providing services to help them. I would certainly "fix it right" the first time and maybe offer a sheet or two of common traps so that they don't have this problem in the future.
There's franchises that already do this, like Geeks on Call [geeksoncall.com] (disclaimer: I have no ties with them whatsoever). More than likely you will want to do something smaller.
I suggest creating a company or getting a license (plus listing any certs you have helps) because eventually you might be the guy to help a small business at which you can easily make a lot of money. Also, when its a company (and not "my brother-in-law Steve, he's great") it's OK to charge more because people expect overhead, etc.
I would only do this final step if you're really interested and if it seems worthwhile. You can always have a very high rate that is charged to businesses but you help residential customers for less on the side.
Basically, do it right and all the way or don't do it at all and stick to helping close family members and those whose services you might use in the future. The third step is what can easily cause you to go from a casual helper to someone who can make a decent chunk of change.
It depends on what they have (Score:3, Interesting)
However. Unless they have a specific software issue that requires windows I set them on the path to getting a mac next time around. If they cheap out and buy another PC, I simply do not help them, or charge or barter.
My rate is $65 minimum 2 hours. If its a business I charge more. I do not charge for phone calls or email support but when I am called out I always round up and they have allready called me a few times.
I do not fix win95, 98 or ME. I will only install a fresh purchased version of XP if the machine can't take it then I walk them through getting a Mac Mini or a Dell if they must have windows for something. Most people seem to want more power any how, and a lot of my calls start with I just got this digital camera.
Support Linux only (Score:3, Interesting)
Most of the time they get free support since it is fun to teach them how to use Linux and mostly the boxes are in good shape. Regular issues are "This movie won't display / Codecs", "I can't connect to my Windowsmachines / Samba", "My instant messenger won't work / When MSN changed their protocol again *sigh*".
Back when I was fixing Windows machines I didn't charge anything since it made them feel as if they owned my sparetime and called me whenever they wanted. What's more, everytime it breaks again you are the one to blame.
So far, $0 dollars (Score:3, Interesting)
I did have to call a line where he had a friend who's son wanted a PC. You can guess who he wanted to help them. I drew a line and just gave them the number to Tran Microsystems(where I buy my systems at).
While I have made no money, I did get a free 40 gig hard drive that he unneccessarily purchased.
Wots the similarity between computers and compost? (Score:4, Insightful)
Rule: Once you accept money for a service, the relationship changes. I fix computers for the odd friend. I do not charge.
I fix computers for customers who I do charge.
So what about the compost?
I like to garden to relax. I also maintain a triple bay compost area at the back of the section. I generate more compost than I can use. I started offering bags of compost to friends for free.
Some months later, my wife pointed out that the bags I purchased to put the compost in, had cost $200. Works out to about
I starting asking for a coin donation for the compost to cover the cost of the bag, I would explain to the people.
In the first 2 weeks of "selling" 5 bags, I recieved 5 "feedbacks". Previously I recieved none over 2 years, over maybe 100 bags given away.
Comments I recieved were:"
- "But I bought a bag last time, I don't have to pay for another?"
- Recieved a call from the wife of a customer, saying there was a milk bottle cap in the compost. Could she bring it back and get another bag of compost.
- "I don't have any change, can I give it to you later?"
- "Oh, thats a bit expensive. You can get twice the amount of compost from the garden centre.". ( I later learn that thats per bucket, and the liners you can buy for the cars Trunk(US), boot(UK, Aus, NZ) cost $2.00.
I have gone back to giving it away.
Re:Wots the similarity between computers and compo (Score:3, Insightful)
My tech support is free... IF (Score:3, Insightful)
First out was my mom. The replaced her win95 PC with an iBook on my advice. Tech support calls from her went from 3 a week to 6 pr YEAR. Lately she has called, the ISP randomly resets the cable modem for some reason and she has to reboot it. It's OK.
Second was my GF. She wanted a portable to do school work and internet connectivity. So I said to her"Honey, I love you. But I'll be damned if I have to support that XP Dell you're looking at. If you buy it, you won't get and advice from me". She bought an iBook, support issues for 1 year 3 months: One. IPhoto screwed up and I had to reimport the pictures for her. She does call me when MSN is down though, like right now for example.
Third was a company of a friend. They asked me what computers they should buy to replace a broken win2000 box. They type, email and surf. Nothing more. I adviced them to buy eMac for the office and a Dell linux server for the backend. After calling Dell, they ended up buying a Dell front end system close in price to the iMac, with a CRT (!). It was infected with a virus within the day and they called me. Answer: "No, you didn't follow my advice, I don't offer support". Simple as that. Now they're up shit creek and Dell simply states that viruses (or the spyware they got in between) isn't part of their support plan.
My time is valuable to me, so I don't let others treat it like it is worthless.
Ferengi Rules Of Acquisition (Score:5, Funny)
Exploitation begins at home.
Computer Matrimony (Score:3, Informative)
They might as well hand out a Marriage Liscence when you repair it, because (assuming you always do it right as I do) any time ever in the future anything at all goes wrong with it they will call YOU.
The trick is getting OUT of doing repairs for friends and family, me I just become my grumpy self, and tell them word for word what I am thinking while I repai their system. THEN They ONLY ask ifits serious and nobody else could help, at that point for FAMILY I will help.
The easiest way to "HELP" a few friends to get them out of the habbit of asking you is copy all their files off, and wipe the machine and when they say where are my files you say "Oh you needed those ?" and after a day or so say Oh I forgot and made a backup, the near scare willl prevent them from EVER asking you again, I promise....
I simply stopped.. (Score:3)
If someone wants my help, I''m more than willing to give it. But they really have to want it first.
Re:I simply stopped.. (Score:3, Interesting)
there are three.... (Score:3, Interesting)
And that's why you won't see windows leave the market anytime soon, because this is the LEAST money being made by IT "professionals" off of windows being on almost everyones computer. The LEAST amount. "They" -any random windows IT professional, may claim publically they want excellent products, reality is that windows being as goobered up as it is is a hundred billion dollar (some large @55 number) make-work phony baloney business now,it is designed to perpetuate a near functional but never quite finished by design and intent highly lucrative perpetual cash cow, with thousands of people (or millions no idea really)now grown dependent and complacent on that easy money income. It's not a legit business anymore, it's a crime racket as far as I am concerned, a silent cartel of cooperating profiteers, large,medium and small sizes. From MS itself to the local computer herdsman, it's moo baby moo gimmee the money. Ha!
There's little to no profit in selling computers that work and don't break. Just like cars to beat that old dead analogy horse one more time. The hardware NEEDS to crap out soon after warranty and the software has to be in a perpetual state of beta ware, although it's all "licensed to use for your economic and sanity inconvenience" as a finished product. And that's why there is NO warranty with consumer software as well.
So, sock it to those folks who absolutely insist on using windows, that's exactly what it's designed for, to make you money. It's secondary reason is to function as software, but primarily, it's a cash cow, milk it. Charge em.
Yes I am cynical, no I don't use windows on the intarweb, never. I use linux or mac. I have a few old boxes and a laptop that have windows on them, but there's a decent airgap between them and the WWW, not that it isn't possible, it's that I simply don't care about trying to make windows function on the web, it's like bolting a wing on your yugo and applying flame stickers. Waste of time, IMO. I have never had any desire to even much "learn" windows because it became obvious as all get out with win95 what the scam was going to be, perpetual beta ware that you will be charged for.
The key point with the beer offering (Score:4, Funny)
When you start to work on the computer do so in a distracted manner - keep talking and babbling while glancing back and forth at the screen. Horror stories about computer problems you've fixed (real or imagined) are good, but especially comments about things you've done that have fucked up computers. "Yeah I used to think anti-static wrist wraps were for pansies, then there was the time I blew out an entire system from one little spark. Damn, over $1000 in damages, just from my stupidity. Oh, were did I put that anti-static strap? Must have left it at home, oh well, no biggie."
Also make sure to make comments like "Whoops! Hmmm, well didn't really need that anyway.", "So you do shopping on the Interweb? Man you should change your password, that one is too easy to hack." "What are these pictures of? analdogsex.com? I didn't know you leaned that way." "Jesus! You've got more spyware than the Kremlin in here!"
If you are really mean you can also play some nice practical jokes while you are there. You know the stuff - make hardcore porn auto launch when you log in, switch the sounds out for farts. Whatever floats your boat.
Odds are you can do the tech support blind, deaf and drunk anyway but the nice thing is you get to entertain yourself, terrify your friend and quite possibly next time your friend will take the machine to a shop instead of calling you to fix it.
This is an EASY question (Score:3, Funny)
$85,000 per year
Plus health and life insurance, 4 weeks vacation, multiple personal laptops, and I only take calls between 8:30 am, and 5:00 PM
Be careful saying no... (Score:5, Funny)
I have been a unix admin and currently am a network engineer. I don't "do windows" professionally. Still, my dad often calls for help. Once I pointed out that as a professor he has a university IT department he can call for help with their computers. His response?
"Listen, I didn't pay for 4 years of college to get lip outta you. Now shut up and answer the fucking question."
Yeah, Dad, I love you too...
Easy way. (Score:3, Interesting)
I tell ppl that I do not do Windows (which is basically true). When they ask for support on it, I suggest that they either move to mac or to linux. Otherwise, they can take it into compUSA (which will cost them more than the damn computer).
Of course, this can backfire. I have moved 6 of my neighbors computers to Linux and about every 6 months, I spend time upgrading them. Kind of a pain, but much easier than dealing with daily calls on spyware, virus, etc. I also help one neighbor who has a mac and had a drive crash and a power supply loss. Fortunately, his system requires as little time as do the Linux.
My Tech Support Story (Score:4, Insightful)
Last Saturday, my dad asked me to help out a friend of his with his computer setup as well as teach his wife about the internet. Sounds good. I went to the guy's house, and noticed that their "high speed internet" was really not that high at all. I was getting 5KB/sec maximum from all kinds of servers. I was told the provider they were using were one of those mom and pops isps with a cheap $20/month deal for their "broadband" package. Fair enough, we could still work with that. Right a way I noticed that their computer was already full of spyware, and also noticed they were using IE. I explained to them, in very simple terms, the benefits of using a web browser that has better security. I recommended Firefox. I installed it for them and told them to give it a try. They liked it. I then proceeded to explain to them the basics of downloading, chatting on their msn account, etc. By the time I left, everything seemed ok, they seemed happy to know a bit more but I did tell them to look into their slow connection since I know you can get a better connection for the same amount of price.
The next day I get a called from the guy's wife telling me that her "list" doesn't display. I had no clue what she was talking about. After about 10 minutes of trying to figure out what they were talking about, I realized they were talking about their msn contacts list. I asked her if she was having problems signing in. She said yes, "the little green men are not dancing". I figured it might be a problem with msn. I told her to try Firefox and see if she can get anywhere. Nothing, she couldn't get the default homepage. I asked her if she had touched anything else on the computer but she said no, so I told her that it is most likely a problem with their Internet Service Provider and that they should call them and ask them if there are any problems in the area. This woman starts telling me that maybe I broke her computer by pressing the wrong "button" but she was still going to call the tech support people to see what is going on.
The next day at work while on the phone with one of the company's clients, I keep on an incoming call. It was the guy from the previous day. The person wants to know what happened to his computer, he says the new program reset his settings and now he doesn't have internet. He says it is not a problem with the Internet provider but rather the new program that I installed (Firefox). After 30minutes of trying to explain that it is nearly impossible for the new program to just go and start messing around with the internet settings I gave up. The guy is still blaming me for his broken internet. So, not only do I get disturbed while at work but I get blamed on breaking their computer after I went out of my way to help these people?
Their #1 excuse is that they don't have time to learn and would rather be told in a few minutes what to do. Well guess what, it doesn't work that way. If you don't have time to learn, maybe you shouldn't be using a computer! If you don't have time to learn, and can't try out things on your own and unless you are prepared to fork out $ for someone to baby-sit your computer, you should really consider NOT using a computer! It is a complex piece of technology that has a learning curve that you should be prepare to climb, it just doesn't come to you in one day. Just like anything else new in life, it takes time!.
What would you guys do? Until I can find a better approac
Re:My Tech Support Story (Score:3, Insightful)
My Fee - free if you have a Mac, no Win work (Score:5, Interesting)
Now I generally just push people away who have issues unless they have Macs, and I gently point them that way if it seems like it would be good for them.
I have to admit I did help one guy with a Windows laptop track down a memory problem (using a Linux LiveCD of course)... so I guess I draw the line at fixing Windows, but am OK helping a litte with pure hardware issues.
Is asking for money essential? (Score:4, Interesting)
Certainly do get something in return (Score:3, Insightful)
I encourage charging people - any way you like. Your work is valuable, and it is good to be appreciated. Will also benefit you when negotiating wages next time if you're in that habit.
Finally, having people give you something reasonable in return is much better than just refusing to help them. The ones that don't appreciate your skills you can do without :) If too many ask still, you can enjoy being popular and raise your prices!
Good luck in the marketplace :)
Re:I don't charge much... (Score:4, Funny)
That way no one can work on it, and you're safe from further support calls. I like it!