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IBM to Open Projects at SourceForge.net

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the go-big-blue dept.

Programming 179

cfelde writes "On Friday, IBM said it is contributing some 30 open-source projects to SourceForge.net. IBM also said it is expanding its own developerWorks Web site with more resources including training in PHP and other popular technologies." This probably dovetails with IBM's new full on support of the PHP language.

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Why am I worried.... (4, Interesting)

DoraLives (622001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11779951)

that this will all turn out horribly wrong in the end? Am I just alergic to large corporations in general?

Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

Re:Why am I worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11779997)

Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

It's not your hat, it's your ass.

And it's GOOD to be a tightass when it comes to big corporations. They can't be trusted, and will screw you over when you aren't looking.

Re:Why am I worried.... (-1, Offtopic)

Deekin_Scalesinger (755062) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780161)

Big corporations killed alternative music in Philadelphia last night - spread the word and help bring it back! Hey, it worked for WHFS...

Re:Why am I worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780775)

how did it work for WHFS? It turned Latin and is still Latin, last I checked, and in any case is still owned by a Media Giant...

Re:Why am I worried.... (1)

gambit3 (463693) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780101)

Maybe...

but remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

I think both IBM and yours (and mine) interests are against Micro$oft.

Re:Why am I worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780365)

"he enemy of my enemy is my friend."

That's what Donald Rumsfeld thought of Saddam Hussein!

Re:Why am I worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780439)

and OBL in Afghanistan...

Re:Why am I worried.... (3, Insightful)

LiquidCoooled (634315) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780441)

This is not the terrace at a football game, Microsoft is not the enemy. They are merely a competitor to a fraction of OSS projects.

Open source software lives and thrives within a Windows environment. Given any of the common OS's, I can download and install legal software without paying a penny more. It doesn't matter if I am using a Mac or an x86 or something else, software is available.

If you want the Linux OS to suceed however, you have to convince Dell and HP and Time and Tiny that the OS on their machines is stable and can be supported. I do not know a single home user who has purchased or changed their operating system for a machine they have bought. They will put up with whatever is there until its hardware renewal time.

I couldn't care less what OS people use, as long as they have choice. Its in our own best interests though to push and market OSS principles and benefits to the rest of the world.

IBM and Novell have backed a winner in Linux, and with such big names standing behind it, it wont be long before others follow :)

Re:Why am I worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11781010)

> but remember, the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Yeah, like those good loyal mujahadin freedom fighters against the russians. What's the name of that bigwig organizing their resistance? Osama? Send him a check, ok?

Re:Why am I worried.... (5, Insightful)

javaxman (705658) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780145)

that this will all turn out horribly wrong in the end? Am I just alergic to large corporations in general? Is my tinfoil hat on too tight?

It's really hard to fault you, actually. History is hard to forget, and it's not unreasonable to wonder if a company can really change it's culture and philosophy so radically.

On the other hand, if someone is giving you a bunch of cool stuff ( i.e. source code ), and doing so under terms ( i.e. license ) that are acceptable to you... it's generally a good thing. I'm not seeing the downside, at least for OSS developers. The downside could be there, of course... but I can't easily think of what it could be.

The upside for IBM, on the other hand, is pretty obvious... it's not like they've done this entirely without thinking of their own benefit. Maybe thinking of it that way will make you feel better? It's not so much that IBM has radically changed ( though it has ), it's that they've figured out how to leverage open source development ?

Re:Why am I worried.... (1)

mytec (686565) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780401)

I agree with your reasoning but it isn't like IBM is putting AIX code or DB2 code up on SourceForge. That would be a radical change.

Re:Why am I worried.... (2, Insightful)

extra the woos (601736) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780664)

shit! If a company figures out how to benefit people AND increase their profits, marketshare, and mindshare, then that is GREAT imho!!! That's the way it should be! Do good things and get rewarded. You can take an easier path (not gonna say omg ms is evil or anything, though obviously look at their past, and look at ibm in the 80's, look at sco etc) of taking the approach of exploiting people and excluding others for the sake of locking people in for profit.

Ibm is behaving great, and I'll support them. My mom bought a thinkpad, if I buy a laptop it'll be a thinkpad, if my friends ask for something portable (not a desktop replacement laptop but a portable one)... they will get sent to ibm... now, if IBM changes their behavior, I can too. Until then (if ever), they get my support. Simple and fair.

Re:Why am I worried.... (2, Insightful)

HawkingMattress (588824) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780233)

Maybe it's too tight. I mean, since IBM started to embrace free software, they haven't done a bad move. On the contrary, they make very intelligent moves. Of course we all know that their purpose is not to make the world better, whatever that means. But it seems that for now the people taking decisions concerning free software at IBM are always trying to do things the right way.
I mean, when you think about it, does IBM really care if project X'sources, funded by them, are downloadable by everybody ? Oponents have their own solutions anyway, and are too intrically tied to it. Corporations are happy because they have IBM behind the project, and will buy IBM's support on a particular project if they need it. Plus, they know the code is really free. I think this is a big plus in a lot of smaller shops, who were typically afraid of IBM's known habit to gradually dig his customers into closed solutions.
And on top of that, IBM knows that if it plays the game well, free software developpers will help them, and push them into their own shops. So it's really a win-win situation for everybody, and they have no interest in cheating. Transparency is the key in this game, and they know it.

Re:Why am I worried.... (3, Insightful)

mickwd (196449) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780844)

All corporations want it money.

Lots and lots and lots of money.

But that's it. Nothing else.

If they think the best way to make money is by screwing their customers over, then many of them will do it.

But if a large corporation thinks it can make more money using a different approach, it will.

Free and open source software is the biggest movement in the software industry today, and is likely to be so for a long time. IBM is riding the wave, so to speak, but is smart enough to realise it's got to give a little as well as take. And it can still make lots of money doing so.

It's also in its interest to support a movement in which many people (but not all) have a strong dislike of several of their major competitors: Microsoft (deservedly so, I would say), Sun (a little harshly, in my opinion) and, increasingly it would seem, HP.

Re:Why am I worried.... (1)

varmittang (849469) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780949)

I would say you shouldn't worry about IBM to much. IBM is betting on hardware and services (support) costing money, while software becomes free and open. MS is trying to go the other way by saying hardware will be free (low cost) while software will cost money. Now is the time where whoever can make the ark fast enough and get the animals on board will last the flood. IBM seems to be winning in my mind, and is picking up speed with this idea, and winning more people over with it, where as no one wants to make hardware for free (or cheaper). Some might ask where this leaves someone like Apple. Apple pretty much is a hardware company, but has a great software division. The only time you have to pay for software is to upgrade or get the high end stuff, so Apple's model will work for many years to come till IBM's free software model produces good tools like the iLife sweet is for the Mac.

Re:Why am I worried.... (1)

wdd1040 (640641) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780995)

I agree with you, James. You have reason to tighten that tinfoil hat.

Large corporations/foundations grow until they realize they are in it for their own interests. Upon that realization they feel it is no longer necessary and begin to think they are self-sustaining without the need to keep user support.

Eventually, one company will maintain user interest and will dominate the industry to be broken up by legislation paid for by other large conglomerates protecting their own interests.

-Wes
(CBSC few years back.)

Re:Why am I worried.... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11781012)

It's not that your tinfoil hat is too tight . . .

It's that your tinfoil hat is an antenna pointing downwards.

go IBM! (-1, Redundant)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11779952)

nft

Great news! (1, Informative)

keiferb (267153) | more than 9 years ago | (#11779957)

It's always good to see a big name, particularly one that's not often at the top of the who-do-we-want-to-flame-today list, getting behind OSS products and sites. Yay, IBM!

Amazing (5, Interesting)

Rei (128717) | more than 9 years ago | (#11779962)

It's amazing how well IBM has been transforming itself from the universally-recognized Bad Guy(tm) to a geek's best friend ;) Back in the day, IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.

Re:Amazing (4, Insightful)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780008)

IBM is just protecting their interests. They beleive (like most people here) that most software will become a comodity in the near future, and instead of fighting it they roll along. I happen to beleive it's wise, but's quite a bold move.

Anyway, yes, it is weird. Not to long ago IBM was as hatred as Microsoft is now...

Re:Amazing (5, Insightful)

stevesliva (648202) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780379)

No, IBM thinks CPU time will be the commodity and services will the the cash cow. Stable, reliable open software will be the grease, the public good.

Re:Amazing (4, Insightful)

someguy456 (607900) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780030)

It's amazing how well IBM has been transforming itself from the universally-recognized Bad Guy(tm) to a geek's best friend ;) Back in the day, IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.

If IBM was able to turn around from the "Bad Guy(tm)" to a geek's best friend, I think there is a possibility that many years from now, today's Evil Empire, Microsoft, might become a geek's best friend while, oh, let's say Google became the new "Bad Guy(tm)

May God help us all...

Re:Amazing (1)

peragrin (659227) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780097)

Excuse me for a moment.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The only reason IBM is turning around is because they are giving up control of the software. MSFT never had a good product to begin with. Why would anyone continue it. Netscape 4 might of sucked, but Netscape 3 was good. A Base in other words was needed.

Re:Amazing (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780485)

I'm not sure I agree with your tone, I do agree with your statement.

Unlike just about everyone else, MS can't adopt open source since it kills the only way they've figured out how to make money: charge top dollar for commodity software.

Open source doesn't really affect IBM's business plan, nor many other companies that are moving to or will eventualy end up embracing it.

MS, well they've got tons of cash, but their "out" is going to be much more complicated (like say, fundamentally changing what they do for a living -- and they've been trying for a long time with just about zero success).

Anyways, instead of attributing "good" or "evil" to companies, I think my personal views are swayed more by "what do they do for a living"? I really don't see much value in what MS does for the money they charge me (it's commodity technology and software after all), and there is some respect for a company that is doing something productive for the money they charge.

MS extorts money from me, and maybe they'll turn to "good guys" if they figure out a way of providing something, anything, that I feel is worthy of my money.

Anyways, IBM's out to make cash, just like MS, but they seem willing to do something useful in exchange whereas MS holds data in purposely obfuscated file formats to force people to give them money. For the same functionality, over and over again.

* I know that when IBM was "evil", it was pretty much for the same reason. Hey, they owned business computing and told people what they needed to buy. They then told them what they needed to pay IBM to make it happen. They forgot that "the customer is always right" and eventually it bit them in the butt. I fully expect the same thing to happen to MS -- and I have doubts their transformation will be as "easy" and "painless" as it was for IBM.

Anyways, why currently MS == "evil social parasite that contributes nothing to society nor its customers", IBM == "out to make money but at least willing to work for it" and why these could (and have) changed over time.

Re:Amazing (2, Insightful)

extra the woos (601736) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780699)

"Unlike just about everyone else, MS can't adopt open source since it kills the only way they've figured out how to make money: charge top dollar for commodity software." I'm not saying your whole post is wrong or anything. But this part is wrong. Look at where MS is going. The last several years they have been moving away from depending on software. They have started realizing what is about to happen, and they are moving to a position where they will provide the hardware you want to have to exit in the digital age. One word: x-box. I believe this is MS diversifying because they know they need something more than windows and office.

Re:Amazing (4, Insightful)

sconeu (64226) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780559)

IBM, while dominating and monopolistic in its day, did have a reputation for quality and topnotch research.

Yes, there is MS Research [microsoft.com] but it's in no way comparable to IBM Research [ibm.com] .

And don't even mention MS and "quality" in the same breath unless the words "lack of" are placed between them.

Re:Amazing (1)

TopSpin (753) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780219)

a geek's best friend

Unless that geek is employed in the West. IBM is a pioneer in outsourcing; IBM makes geeks cheaper.

Re:Amazing (1)

tartanblue (125663) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780403)

I think I found a mispelling in your post. Here is the corrected version:

Dell is a pioneer in outsourcing; Dell makes geeks cheaper.

Re:Amazing (0, Flamebait)

mingot (665080) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780594)

Tech support retards are not geeks. They are cretins with one clue cell more than the idiots they service.

Re:Amazing (2, Insightful)

Cyno (85911) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780303)

IBM was the Evil Empire of the computer world.

Today its Microsoft. But how many people love them for it? How many people would switch to a different OS because they believe monopolies are bad? Calling these corporations Evil Empires does nothing to help the ignorant consumer.

If Microsoft released their source code under the GPL they would also be a geek's best friend. Because geeks like me believe actions speak louder than words. As long as nobody seems to care about the threat a large corporation poses to their economy, geeks usually don't mind their support. Its like Republicans. As long as nobody wants to kick them out of office I'm willing to accept that $300 tax refund in exchange for my liberty. But I know what I am giving up.

Unlike all the ignorant masses, us geeks will be watching and judging.

So, uh, who ya gonna call Evil next? :)

Re:Amazing (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780446)

IBM does not care about Linux from a software ethics point of view or some new found devotion to OSS. It's about making money. Their support could disappear as quick as it came. Admittedly, IBM is doing a great job in winning over the hearts and minds of the Linux community. But, what is the real reason for this apparent support?

Remember OS/2? It never took off, IBM missed out on the x86 OS market. IBM slept through the dot com explosion and let Sun take control of the Unix market. The mainframe market has been in serious decline for years. So IBM does not have the OS story they need to dominate any of those markets. Enter Linux, now they are pushing Linux on all the traditional IBM platforms. Linux on mainframes, Linux on pSeries and Linux on their xSeries servers. Linux is helping them make some return on what was not too long ago a hopeless case for them. But yet, they do not own Linux so they can't make any money from the OS itself. That's why they are calling themselves a services company now, that is the only way they can pull money out of Linux. Interesting how Linux is doing some much to help IBM's bottom line and yet they take it for free. Oh yea, thats right they invested 2 billion dollars into Linux, right? Anyone seen the itemized list for that investment?

I would not be suprised if there have been meetings at IBM to figure out how they can take control of Linux. It would take time, a long time, but IBM is a patient company and they know that the first step in controling Linux is to win over the community.

FIRST POST!!!! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11779973)

After a several week timeout corner absence!!!

CONGRATULATIONS! (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11781015)

Not only did you not get first post, but you weren't even remotely close. In fact, your post is so far away from being first that radio telescopes are having a hard time locating it. Maybe you need more time off to get some much needed practice.

0eda631090111aafad4b361540381ccf

IBM's rhype also now open source (4, Informative)

Xpilot (117961) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780002)

On a somewhat related note, IBM has released [com.com] rhype [ibm.com] , it's research hypervisor as open source under the GPL. This should spice up the free hypervisor community. First Xen [cam.ac.uk] , now IBM's rhype. Choice is so good :)

Re:IBM's rhype also now open source (1)

qkslvrwolf (821489) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780625)

I'm sorry, but what is a hypervisor?

Re:IBM's rhype also now open source (2, Funny)

TheSync (5291) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780838)

It "hypes up" your work.

Suddenly, your "hello world" CGI script is a "highly virtualized, service-oriented architecture, scalable to grid computing."

Re:IBM's rhype also now open source (2, Informative)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780841)

It manages system virtualization. Sits between the OS and the iron, and can host several OSs simultaneously. This is a big, important feature of IBM's products.

Wait... (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780005)

do we like IBM this week?

Re:Wait... (1)

jo42 (227475) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780376)


Until next week. Or until they do something 'we' consider evil...

So what are these apps? (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780018)

Thirty hello world programs in COBOL?

Re:So what are these apps? (1)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780917)

Nah.... Only ten of them are in Cobol. Ten are written in Fortran, and ten are written in Algol....

IBM And MONEY (4, Insightful)

Indes (323481) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780026)

They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

or do they plan to donate some money to it to help it all as a whole??

IBM is in an odd situation no doubt, but using OpenSource public tools when properly funded seems somewhat.. rude, no?

Re:IBM And MONEY (4, Funny)

Stradenko (160417) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780070)

I'm happy to let IBM put its shit in our community wheelbarrow. More shit for everyone can only be good.

Re:IBM And MONEY (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780085)

It all depends on if IBM is dumping the projects or plans to stay actively involved. If they are passing the project on for others to take care of then Sourceforge seems like the right place for it.

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

Godwin O'Hitler (205945) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780115)

FFS! You want them to be like Sun, in a parallel universe?

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

coolcold (805170) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780203)

considering the amount of resource they will use in sf.net, i won't mind them to have project hanging around there. If they have their own server using a different domain name, it is less likely for other people to find the project than having it in sf.net. And would you choose another domain popping up or would you choose project in sf.net that are monitored by thousands of users?

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780262)

I don't see it as rude, on the contrary I feel they're trying to show they're part of the community. I get distrustful when a company proclaims it's releasing something as open source, but it's under some weird-ass license I've never seen before and only available from their site. Putting it on sourceforge shows it's the real deal.

Re:IBM And MONEY (3, Interesting)

Aspirator (862748) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780300)

Sourceforge is the acknowledged place these things
are coordinated, It is great to see a giant like
IBM contributing in the 'commoners' forum.

> but using OpenSource public tools when
> properly funded seems somewhat.. rude, no?

Rude? NO. It is a very good thing.
It is a testament to how good some of the Open Source tools have become.

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

b3s (807077) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780372)

have you considered the fact that they might already support sourceforge by using sourceforge enterprise internally? note: i have no clue if they do or do not, but to instantly accuse them of not supporting sourceforge via product purchase just seems rather rude to me.

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

Mel (21137) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780400)

They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

Because then they would be forming the IBM-open-source community or growing a NIH complex. There is no point having the IBM Open Source Community and the Everybody Else Open Source Community.

Re:IBM And MONEY (3, Informative)

kiore (734594) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780491)

Putting the source code in a repository they neither own nor control makes me feel more comfortable that they are sincere.

Given IBM's recent history, it didn't surprise me to hear that they are a cash contributor to Sourceforge. The "site sponsors" block on the left of the Sourceforge homepage contains at least one link to an IBM site. I clicked the DB2 link to see where it went ... www14.software.ibm.com

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

El Cubano (631386) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780494)

They have it, why not create a sourceforge like site for their own projects instead of using the good will of other open source companies?

If they use a common resource like SourceForge, the will avoid accusations that they may later revoke access.

E.g., IBM starts a new site called IBMForge.net. People will jump and scream because, rather than use existing resources (like SourceForge), they are trying to keep a tight reign on "their" code. By going GPL and using SourceForge they have chosen what is probably the best solution given the circumstances.

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

stevesliva (648202) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780662)

Perhaps you mean something like DeveloperWorks: Open Source [ibm.com] ?

But isn't being a team player the whole point, anyways? IBM can join teams when it doesn't want to start one, right?

Re:IBM And MONEY (1)

Elwood P Dowd (16933) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780907)

You jackass. They help pay Linus' damn salary [osdl.org] . I suspect they might kick a few pennies towards sourceforge as well.

No, funding and using public Open Source tools does not seem rude.

Good news for PHP... (4, Interesting)

bc90021 (43730) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780034)

...and I'm glad it was included in this story, since I hadn't seen the prior one.

While a lot of people like to knock PHP (mostly Java guys, but hey ;) ), I love it. It's easy, functional, and lately, a lot more mature with the OO aspects. (I have one class now that I use for database access, and it makes life so much easier.)

With things like PHP-GTK [php.net] , you can even use it to write applications, and with IBM behind it, things will likely only improve.

Re:Good news for PHP... (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780155)

Perl is already at where PHP is 'trying' to get to. PHP is for noobs. Maybe you will use Perl when you grow up.

mod_perl with Mason (or TT) beats the shit out of an y PHP setup.

perl has modules for gtk and gtk2 for apps too. Throw in some POE and you can have a badass app.

Also Perl has CPAN. PHP is an unorganized pile of code. Although I hear theres some effort to fix this problem in PHP by copying Perl's approach.

Re:Good news for PHP... (5, Insightful)

harborpirate (267124) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780293)

Languages are a tool - and each tool has its own use. You shouldn't use a screwdriver to pound a nail, as it were. Because even though you might get it to work, you're putting more effort into it than you really need to.

To me, PHP is great for small, agile projects - ones that need to be designed and written quickly, and require a lot of changes to the code to happen throughout implementation.

I think OO PHP isn't all bad - being able to compartmentalize your code for reuse and complexity reduction is great.

My concern, however, is that people will start to look at PHP as an enterprise level language, which in my opinion, it isn't. Every PHP project that I've worked on started to break down after a certain level of complexity. I think part of this was due to the lack of Object Orientation, but I think part of it was also the nature of the language itself. I'll be interested to see what IBM can do with PHP, but lets just say I don't envy their guys if they're trying to switch their enterprise level development to use it.

Re:Good news for PHP... (1)

kevinbr (689680) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780533)

Another problem is the all or nothing mentality. Either do it in Java or do it in PHP. The reality should be to be selective. Certainly for customer/web facing functionality PHP usually has enough steam, but I suspect that J2EE's container functionality seems attractive to developers, but they rarely seem to actually exercise this capability and end up with a mess of JSP.

90% of the stuff on the web is just a bunch of SELECT statements and some minimal logic. PHP is fine for this. When you get to the tasty bits that need transactions and failover and loadbalancing with session awareness, then you can jump to Java.

Re:Good news for PHP... (2, Insightful)

tijnbraun (226978) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780590)

It think it is moslty due to the nature of the language.

If a project gets complex, and you don't have a compiler to check your code before it runs, refactoring gets really difficult. You can still do some sort of unit testing. But the combination of unit testing and strong type language is much more powerfull.

If refactoring gets difficult and adjustments have to be implimented due to requirement changes, bugs will start to appear. And they will only rear their heads once the code is executed.

A class might still pass the unit test but without interface checking of a compiler you are never certain that other code using that class will not fail.

I could be doing something wrong but often when I have to change code in php I use grep to check whether other code is using that function etc.

PHP... (2, Interesting)

einhverfr (238914) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780954)

I program in Perl, Python, and PHP. And I work on large (30k line) programs in both Perl and PHP.

PHP is a good language for certain classes of applications including web applications in general. But additionally, you can preprocess any text-based file with it too. This means:

1) Preprocessing configuration files is easy
2) Web apps are easy to build in PHP
3) PHP has a number of features that place it *way* ahead of Microsoft's ASP for enterprise applications. Variable-based includes for example.

That being said, trying to write system administration scripts in PHP is like using a crescent wrench as a hammer. It might sorta work but it is neither elegant nor optimal. Perl and python are much better at this.

Re:Good news for PHP... (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780322)

As a python guy who hates Java, does this mean I should be supporting PHP? Or are we sworn enemies as well?

Re:Good news for PHP... (1)

LnxAddct (679316) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780691)

Why hate java? For web applications you can't get much more scalable then java. I'm a java/python/C++/C/perl hacker and they all have benefits. The right tool for the right job. Java has to be doing something right, afterall how many corporations don't rely heavily upon it? Developing for java is actually a pleasure since amazing IDE's like Eclipse and NetBeans have been released. Theses IDE's have extensive support for everything from desktop programs with gui builders, web applications with integration to tomcat, to mobile device developement with cell phone emulators and the works. Hell, java can even be used for OS developement (jNode [jnode.org] ) once you get the assembly stub out of the way. With today's VMs I often find java is faster or on par with C++. It really is a nice language.
Regards,
Steve

Re:Good news for PHP... (5, Insightful)

teknomage1 (854522) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780350)

I' pretty sure people knock it because it's easy. Some people feel intimidated by things being made easier for the masses because they're afraid of being obsolete. A rather prominent greek philosopher came out against paper because he felt it'd be the downfall of society. Young people wouldn't bother to memorize things anymore and so and so forth. Many people attack PHP as a language that let's bad programmers make websites, so clearly they're talking about the downfall of programming civilization. Now php does have some syntax issues, but hopefully those'll get worked out before too long. I still think it makes a great first language for people to discover programming with.

Re:Good news for PHP... (1)

nlmueng (704076) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780671)

JCP for scripiting languages is becoming part of java so web apps can be created using PHP but still use all other parts of J2EE. http://jcp.org/en/jsr/detail?id=223 Could be why they are supporting it now, will right right out of the box on their app server. So not all 'Java guys' feel this way

Re:Good news for PHP... (1)

helixcode123 (514493) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780696)

(I have one class now that I use for database access, and it makes life so much easier.)

I'm sure you're not re-inventing the wheel, but have you checked out the PEAR::DB module? I use it to avoid the gross php database-specific functions (e.g. mysql_query).

List of the Projects? (4, Interesting)

D4rk Fx (862399) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780035)

Does anyone have a list of all thr projects IBM is helping? TFA didn't seem to have all of them, only a couple

Re:List of the Projects? (4, Informative)

UTF-8 (680134) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780279)

I don't know all of them, but one of the projects that was moved was http://icu.sourceforge.net/

IBM has been very involved with open source for many years, and now they are moving the hosting of many projects to other sites. One of them is to sourceforge. The donation was more of a move from DeveloperWorks to Sourceforge because of the increasing costs (bureaucracy) to maintain many projects on ibm.com.

ICU (International Components for Unicode) has been on DeveloperWorks and AlphaWorks as open source since 1999.

which 30 projects? (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780050)

are they 30 projects that IBM is interested in or 30 projects that they were planning to abandon but felt they could get some goodwill outof instead?

Re:which 30 projects? (3, Insightful)

MicroBerto (91055) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780605)

Everyone wants to know which projects, and we'll find out soon enough.

However, I don't like the attitude in the above post. In the grand scheme of things, 30 projects is NOTHING, and it doesn't matter what they do. What matters is if collaboration and support rise and IBM likes the results that they get, they will do it MORE.

So quit griping - any support is good, and if the community supports it in return, you've made a good ally and have a good future.

Summer Internship (-1, Offtopic)

someguy456 (607900) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780059)

Awesome! As a true believer in Open Source, I'm glad IBM is going down this path. Up to now, I wasn't really sure what I would want to do with my CS degree. Various IBM managers have contacted me regarding summer internships, and with this new advancement, I'm pretty confident I'll be working at IBM this summer.

The Why (5, Insightful)

ackthpt (218170) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780074)

IBM Software is turning up the noise on its open-source contributions.

What it's about:

An interesting bit on the transition and recovery of IBM was on the BBC a couple days back, refreshing and adding a layer of information to my memory of experience with the behemoth IT company. IBM's core business is selling service, not hardware (they sold the PC unit to Lenovo) and big iron doesn't sell much anymore, so they've come to the point of making some hardware, but throwing their weight behind systems and services. Why so much given to Open Source? IBM is more than just friendly to Linux and Open Source, but see them as their life blood. They won't make money pushing systems built around Microsoft Windows, because that leaves too much leverage in an external (and sometimes unfriendly) camp. Not to overlook the taint associated over the past few years with gaping security holes in Microsoft products, which could reflect very negatively on IBM having to go in and clean up the mess. A couple years ago IBM had already broken the 1G$ barrier on Linux systems, in one quarter. I haven't looked at their company statements lately, but it's clear this is their planned direction of growth.

Re:The Why (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780632)

IBM has passed the one gazillion dollar mark?

Wow!

*cough*

Large Corporations and Criticism (4, Interesting)

sameerdesai (654894) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780076)

It's amazing how we criticise M$ for not being open and IBM for tring to be open.

Re:Large Corporations and Criticism (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780204)

It will be nice if IBM open source their cash cow Websphere, DB2 line products!!! rather giveaway some DOA softwares

Re:Large Corporations and Criticism (2, Insightful)

sporty (27564) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780720)

No it's not. People are more likely to complain about small discomforts than praise small acomplishments. The scales tip to criticizing.

You can't have it both ways. (5, Insightful)

winkydink (650484) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780090)

People gripe when big, evil corporations develop proprietary code and then when these corporations open it up, they gripe that there must be a hidden agenda.

I think some folks just like to gripe.

Opening this code will dovetail nicely with IBM becoming more of a services-focused company. When BigCo wants a project implemented & maintained using open source, IBM will be there to lend a hand (for a price of course).

Re:You can't have it both ways. (2, Insightful)

torinth (216077) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780239)

People gripe when big, evil corporations develop proprietary code and then when these corporations open it up, they gripe that there must be a hidden agenda.

I think some folks just like to gripe.


Or else maybe there's more than one 'people' out there. But whatever, gripe away.

This is a good move, (5, Interesting)

robyannetta (820243) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780113)

As we learned in The Art of War by Sun Tzu, to win the war, make as many allies as possible.

IBM learned early on that if you have the Linux community backing a multi-billion dollar corporate entity like themselves, they stand a helluva good chance toppling that Redmond, Washington company they don't like.

They have my vote.

Ah, but look where their investments really are (1)

WillAffleckUW (858324) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780329)

in China and India - read the subtext of the commercials where the guy shows up with a Thing in a Box that he's patenting and needs to "get big".

however, there's no free rides - and Information wants to be Free.

Re:Ah, but look where their investments really are (1)

tijnbraun (226978) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780827)

I often see this quote "Information wants to be free". But I really do not understand why that should be so.

I would assume information "wants" to be duplicated in a darwian sense. But why should it want to be free?

DNA prefers to be nicely protected in the membrane of the nucleus, but I'm probably stretching my own analogy to much here.

Re:This is a good move, (1)

MicroBerto (91055) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780563)

Great book, I recommend it to all of you. It's just cool.

Anyway, I really think IBM is just using SF's free bandwidth :) hopefully they contribute! I didn't RTFA though, just wanted to comment on the awesomeness of The Art of War

Because I love a good flame war (1, Troll)

Kludge (13653) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780135)

One industry executive who requested not to be named said that IBM's push into PHP and scripting reflects IBM's disillusionment with the Java standardisation process and the industry's inability to make Java very easy to use.

"IBM's been so fed up with Java that they've been looking for alternatives for years," the executive said. "They want people to build applications quickly that tap into IBM back-ends... and with Java, it just isn't happening."


It took them this long?

Re:Because I love a good flame war (1)

terror_duck (754501) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780427)

Regarless of starting a flame war or not, that quote is interesting and a bit contradictory. I'm assuming they're fed up with Java on the front-end side of things (i.e. ditch JSP's) so they can make it easier to tap into the back-ends which are heavily Java based or have Java hooks (entire WebSphere family, DB2, Cloudscape/Derby, Domino, etc).

I don't think everyone at IBM is fed up with Java

Re:Because I love a good flame war (1)

pixel-fodder (728238) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780808)


IBM are not fed up with Java - their whole WebSphere business is built on the success of Java.


IBM do not like the fact that they do not *OWN* Java - their competitor does - Sun.

A great saying.. (2, Funny)

Roliverio (844827) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780181)

The enemy of my enemy, it's my friend :-D

Re:A great saying.. - not always true... (1)

RocketJeff (46275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780746)

The enemy of my enemy, it's my friend :-D
That kind of thinking can/does cause problems.

The US backed Saddam Hussein's Iraq in its war against Iran because Iran was the enemy.

The US backed the Taliban (as a part of the Mujahideen) against the USSR.

Those are just 2 of many examples (just the ones that come to mind when I hear that saying) - there are many other examples of the problem with this saying (from many countries/companies/families/etc).

Note: I don't think that IBM is/will become an enemy of Linux/OSS (they have enough valid reasons to back them), it's just that the OP's saying has problems.

Also: This is actually an old Middle-Eastern saying that is usually translated as: "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

RPG (1)

nearlygod (641860) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780196)

Finally... An RPG section!

OS/2 ??!! (3, Funny)

BitwiseX (300405) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780250)

God I hope they put the source code for OS/2 up.. I could use a good laugh. ;)

Re:OS/2 ??!! (1)

ettlz (639203) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780308)

As far as I understand, that's part-owned by Microsoft. Unless SCO went and bought it.

Re:OS/2 ??!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780558)

Typo? Education is not spelled l-a-u-g-h.

Re:OS/2 ??!! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11780861)

Actually the source code to OS/2 would be extremely useful in a number of ways. For example OS/2 LAN SERVER running on a one-way pentium3 1Ghz is an order of magnitude faster at serving up files than Samba/Linux running on a quad pentium4 Xeon.

freshmeat.net (1)

KingBahamut (615285) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780282)

Hurry up IBM, go clone those to FM.

What projects? (2, Informative)

HogGeek (456673) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780356)

I tried doing a search for both people and project that contain IBM, but nothing solid.

Is there a list of software that they donated? I'm curious if its "newer" stuff, of old stuff they no longer user, nor implement themselves...

I'm presuming Performance Explorer is one of them (1)

Rocko Bonaparte (562051) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780392)

There was a tool brought up in some Jikes research called "Performance Explorer" that profiles Java applications across time. It uses a variety of performance counters, both from the OS, the JVM, and hardware; painting a very complete profile of the system. I've been waiting to get my mittens on it.

I think the downside is that it probably only works for Jikes, and only PowerPC right now. If it turns out the front-end is very useful, and implementing the performance counter drivers is easy, then I'm sure it'll pick up some steam. I was told it'd be out at the end of this month, but maybe they're bundling it in with those 30 sourceforge projects.

I wonder how this works with the IBM CPL. It's generally an open-source license, with a disclaimer that IBM won't be held responsible for what happens.

CVS Status (2, Informative)

YodaToo (776221) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780595)

Unfortunately all of their projects will show zero files committed until they get this Nov. 2003 issue [sourceforge.net] fixed.

IBM just upped their SourceForge contributions... (1)

ulatekh (775985) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780660)

...up yours!

(OK, OK, I'll send Johnny Cash's estate a check for that joke...)

Great news!...no worries ( at least for now) (1)

L1nux_L0ser83 (860647) | more than 9 years ago | (#11780758)

it seems that "big blue" is finally understanding how Linux and open source is going to change computing. In the last few months there has been lots of news with IBM opening up to the open source community and this news along with their new business model which highly implements linux/and open source. I belive this may be a hugh push forward for linux to become widely accepted. That, and for IBM to get back some ground in the industry.
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