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Apple CFO Gives Info on Company Direction

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the no-plans-to-make-furniture dept.

Businesses 418

osViews.com writes "Mac World is reporting a recent talk given by Apple's Chief Financial Officer (Peter Oppenheimer) at the Goldman Sachs Technology Investment Symposium. The article illustrates several things about about Apple's business plan, much of which is totally new information about the company's current and future direction. Here's the nutshell summary: iPod "Halo" effect is causing some Windows switchers, little demand for satellite radio/iPod integration, iPod shuffle margins below HD ipods, happy with rate of growth - no plans to license OS X, margins on Mac mini equal to eMac (both below corporate average), retail store to expand to 125, no plans for media center PC - prefers to stream multimedia to TV from primary computer over wireless network, no video for iPod, portable media centers a failure."

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GNAA Announces Victory over Apple Community (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11789992)

GNAA Announces Victory over Apple Community

San Francisco, California - Just three days after being the first in the world to leak photos of Apple's upcoming revision to MacOS X, version 10.4, Steve Jobs announced to the world facts about the new Operating System consistent with information leaked by elite GNAA operator Gary Niger and prospective member Ron Delsner.

"We've pulled it off!", noted Niger during Jobs' announcement at Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference. "The GNAA plan was clever from the start with this one I think. When we received our leaked copy of the OS, we knew that by releasing only partial information and some screenshots, the association people would make with the GNAA would lead them to believe the screenshots were fake. Now that Steve 'Rim' Jobs has verified everything we leaked, we have managed to fool the entire Mac community. In essense, a few hundred thousand people have been trolled, a few hundred thousand people have lost. Though I do wish they have a nice day"

"I don't think it could have worked out any better; Every single one of the features shown in our screenshots, particularly Dashboard, which everybody called as fake, was demoed by Jobs. This is my revenge for being beat up on the rent", quoted Ron Delsner on being approached by reporters. "I've been wanting to join the Gay Nigger Association of America for quite some time, and knew that I help pull off something big if they were to let me in."

Delsner was right, as upon hearing this, Gary Niger immediately produced a vial of what he called the "Holy Gay Nigger Seed" from his front pocket, and asked Ron to kneel, at which time the Seed was poured upon Ron's head, making him an official member of the GNAA. Noticing the television cameras present in the press room, Gary cited that this was in fact the first televised induction of a member into the GNAA.

"But back to the troll", Niger said quickly after. "I had a sneaking suspicion that the homosexual caucasians of the Mac community would feel threatened by the GNAA's massive nigger cocks and immediately cast doubts upon any screenshots we produced for them. I saw this as an opportunity to troll hundreds of thousands of people. It just goes to show that GNAA is greater than j00, and that fristage postage is mine."

And Niger certainly did not fail it, as can be seen from the following excerpts taken from various Internet website's covering the leak:

ThinkSecret.com - "In fact, it was the source that led many users to call the shots fake; the information in that story, as well as this one, was provided by Gary Niger and Ron Delsner of the GNAA, an organization that deals in crapfloods and Slashdot trolling."

AppleInsider.com - "Enjoy the photoshop work. I seriously don't think Apple would be so crazy to use those jargons."

MacRumors.com - "Hmm... Information by "Gary Niger" of GNAA. Sounds too stupid to be true. And that dashboard thing? Hogwash me thinks ..."

MacRumors.com - "I immediately thought of them when I saw "GNAA". Anyone who reads Slashdot would be familiar with them - they put big spam posts everywhere. Yes, and it doesn't surprise me. I don't think the screenshots are real (at least not the Dashboard ones), but I have no trouble believing the PDF."

Kim Kap Sol on AppleInsider.com said "I can guarantee those are fake." He then continued by saying "Hello I R Korea KEKEKEKE OMG ZERG RUSH GOGOGOGO ^_^"

Gary's reply to this was "Way to make a complete idiot of yourself you dog-eating douchebag."

Steve Jobs was unavailable for comment immediately following the keynote address, though WWDC attendee and GNAA member Porfa noticed "A cute wiggle in Jobs' ass as he walked away."

About Apple

Apple Computer is the creator of the Macintosh, popularly known as the "gay computer". 87% of GNAA members are Mac users. Founded in 1974 by Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, Apple was nearly out of business in the mid 90's, when Jobs was rehired. He then started the now infamous iGay marketing scheme which involved both the Step 2 ???? Profit model, and a 100% effort towards marketing towards homosexuals.


About GNAA:
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the first organization which gathers GAY NIGGERS from all over America and abroad for one common goal - being GAY NIGGERS.

Are you GAY [klerck.org] ?
Are you a NIGGER [mugshots.org] ?
Are you a GAY NIGGER [gay-sex-access.com] ?

If you answered "Yes" to all of the above questions, then GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) might be exactly what you've been looking for!
Join GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) today, and enjoy all the benefits of being a full-time GNAA member.
GNAA (GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA) is the fastest-growing GAY NIGGER community with THOUSANDS of members all over United States of America and the World! You, too, can be a part of GNAA if you join today!

Why not? It's quick and easy - only 3 simple steps!
  • First, you have to obtain a copy of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE THE MOVIE [imdb.com] and watch it. You can download the movie [idge.net] (~130mb) using BitTorrent.
  • Second, you need to succeed in posting a GNAA First Post [wikipedia.org] on slashdot.org [slashdot.org] , a popular "news for trolls" website.
  • Third, you need to join the official GNAA irc channel #GNAA on irc.gnaa.us, and apply for membership.
Talk to one of the ops or any of the other members in the channel to sign up today! Upon submitting your application, you will be required to submit links to your successful First Post, and you will be tested on your knowledge of GAYNIGGERS FROM OUTER SPACE.

If you are having trouble locating #GNAA, the official GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA irc channel, you might be on a wrong irc network. The correct network is NiggerNET, and you can connect to irc.gnaa.us as our official server. Follow this link [irc] if you are using an irc client such as mIRC.
clicking here.
-->

If you have mod points and would like to support GNAA, please moderate this post up.

.________________________________________________.
| ______________________________________._a,____ | Press contact:
| _______a_._______a_______aj#0s_____aWY!400.___ | Gary Niger
| __ad#7!!*P____a.d#0a____#!-_#0i___.#!__W#0#___ | gary_niger@gnaa.us [mailto]
| _j#'_.00#,___4#dP_"#,__j#,__0#Wi___*00P!_"#L,_ | GNAA Corporate Headquarters
| _"#ga#9!01___"#01__40,_"4Lj#!_4#g_________"01_ | 143 Rolloffle Avenue
| ________"#,___*@`__-N#____`___-!^_____________ | Tarzana, California 91356
| _________#1__________?________________________ |
| _________j1___________________________________ | All other inquiries:
| ____a,___jk_GAY_NIGGER_ASSOCIATION_OF_AMERICA_ | Enid TBD
| ____!4yaa#l___________________________________ | enid_tbd@gnaa.us [mailto]
| ______-"!^____________________________________ | GNAA World Headquarters
` _______________________________________________' 160-0023 Japan Tokyo-to Shinjuku-ku Nishi-Shinjuku 3-20-2

Copyright (c) 2003-2004 GNAA [www.gnaa.us]

niggers are to blame for the aids epidemic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790023)

No, it's not racism. It's a fact [myway.com] .

I'd like to see how you liberal morons try to get out of this...

Like blaming women for rapes! (-1, Offtopic)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790059)

They are as much victims of the AIDS epidemic as anything else. I quote from the linked article, "Researchers and AIDS prevention advocates attributed the high rate among blacks to such factors as drug addiction, poverty and poor access to health care."

So rather than being the CAUSE of the AIDS epidemic, they are victims due to poor social circumstance; using drugs, being poor, and being inadequately treated medically.

If they were the CAUSE, which you want to believe, then the researcher should have said something else, like, "Researchers and AIDS prevention advocates believe quarantine of the black population will stem the tide of AIDS among the white population."

They mention nothing of the sort in that article... only that we can do better for the black population.

Re:Like blaming women for rapes! (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790081)

victims due to poor social circumstance; using drugs, being poor, and being inadequately treated medically.

Ah, yes. And why are they using drugs and being poor? Because they're genetically unable to WORK FOR the society.

Re:Like blaming women for rapes! (-1, Offtopic)

jwcorder (776512) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790114)

"They are as much victims of the AIDS epidemic as anything else. I quote from the linked article, "Researchers and AIDS prevention advocates attributed the high rate among blacks to such factors as drug addiction, poverty and poor access to health care."

So rather than being the CAUSE of the AIDS epidemic, they are victims due to poor social circumstance; using drugs, being poor, and being inadequately treated medically.

If they were the CAUSE, which you want to believe, then the researcher should have said something else, like, "Researchers and AIDS prevention advocates believe quarantine of the black population will stem the tide of AIDS among the white population."

They mention nothing of the sort in that article... only that we can do better for the black population."

whisper/

You're in the wrong room....the affirmative action conference is one room down

/whisper

WTF is that post about!!!!

Re:niggers are to blame for the aids epidemic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790071)

The fact still remains that ,
1) this is nonsence
2) were not you facist types blaming the Gays for this last week
3) your just jelous we have larger manhoods

Re:niggers are to blame for the aids epidemic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790153)

3) your just jelous we have larger manhoods

If you could at least get the most basic grammar and orthography right, maybe not all of you would have to work for McD.

Re:niggers are to blame for the aids epidemic (-1, Offtopic)

cdwiegand (2267) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790086)

Um, this article in no way indicates that blacks are the cause of the AIDS epidemic, just that they are more affected by it then others (ie. whites). Which, given the lower average pay for blacks vs. whites is no surprise (medicine costs money in the US). A "liberal" agenda is not necessary to see these facts, but a racist "crackpot" will easily see just what they want.

Re:niggers are to blame for the aids epidemic (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790102)

lower average pay for blacks vs. whites

And I guess that's not their (blacks') fault either...

So, Mac's dying? (0, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11789993)

no plans to license OS X

That stubborn and insanely stubborn backward mentality is what's finally going to sink Apple. Apple needs to expand to the PC world and the PC world needs OS X.

Considering Linux and all, OS X is the only real desktop alternative.

Proudly dying for 20 years (5, Interesting)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790027)

Why do you think that, of all things, is going to sink Apple?

If anything I would have thought their intensely secretive nature would kill them.

Their iPod and iTunes products are exactly how they are expanding to the PC world.
Their mini is exactly how the PC world will get OS X.

If OS X is the only real desktop alternative, nothing is stopping people from buying Macs you know.

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790045)

nothing is stopping people from buying Macs you know

Uh. Reality check... a Mac platform is about twice as expensive as a clone PC you've built yourself.

and one for you (5, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790077)

running OS X on a piece of shit Fry's discount x86 box doth not a Mac make.

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (3, Informative)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790098)

Since when can you build a 6"x6"x2" PC for $249?

I thought the cheapest 6"x6"x2" PC was $900? That's more like 50% more expensive than a Mac. Just the case, alone, at Cappuccino PC is $379!

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (5, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790105)

Macs are actually less expensive than PCs.

When you equip a PC with the exact same components in hardware and software as that which come standard on a Mac... the PC always comes out to be more expensive.

people misunderstand this because... with a PC, you can buy less and spend less. That does not make the PC less expensive... though it does make it more configurable... at least at the origional buying stage.

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (4, Interesting)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790429)

Reality check, most people don't know one end of a screwdriver from another, let alone what parts to buy and how to assemble a PC. Geeks who build their own PCs are a fraction of 1% of the computer market. Apple have the other 99%+ as their potential market.

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (5, Insightful)

solios (53048) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790076)

Everything Apple's ever done has, according to people who get paid to be taken seriously, been the death knell of the company.

And the only thing that's stopping some people from buying Macs isn't the price point or the applications, it's the games.

Feel free to spout off the list of everything with Mac support, and realize that Painkiller, System Shock, GTA, Half-Life, Half-Life 2 (and by extent Steam, CCS, etc) and a shitload of other games aren't available. And several Mac ports have been gutted on the way over- it's an old example, but Baldur's Gate for the Mac is missing multiplayer and any character customization capability.

There's a large chunk of the vocal PC userbase who use the thing as glorified nintendo- it's really (imo) the ONLY area where the PC has any kind of advantage over the Mac.

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (1)

Leo McGarry (843676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790111)

You do realize that practically nobody plays computer games, right? As a ratio of Apple's target customers, practically nobody plays computer games.

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790198)

Games are one of the reason I've switched to the Mac, in an odd way.

I used to play tons of PC games, but recently there have been very few that I have been interested in. I want to play Pirates!, HL2, and Doom 3. That's basically it. Pirates! will get ported (I'm guessing, but it's not that important), Doom 3 has gone gold (comes out the 15th of next month, I think), and HL2... well I'll play that on my sister's PC.

Consoles provide me with about all the gaming I want. If it's a good enough game, it will get ported (and I don't mind the extra time it will take to get to the Mac). Very few games remain PC only forever.

For most people, games are not a good reason to cling to PCs, in my expiriance. And that's not counting people like my mom, who only play web games (like PopCap's) anyway.

Pirates! is emulated (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790408)

I want to play Pirates!, HL2, and Doom 3. That's basically it. Pirates! will get ported (I'm guessing, but it's not that important)

Pirates! is already ported, provided that you run the game in an emulator [victoly.com] for one of the systems that the original version ran on. If you still want to play pirate, I'm pretty sure that eDonkey and BitTorrent clients are available for Mac OS X.

Games running "on" the Mac mini (3, Funny)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790371)

There's a large chunk of the vocal PC userbase who use the thing as glorified nintendo- it's really (imo) the ONLY area where the PC has any kind of advantage over the Mac.

The Mac mini is just the right size to fit a GameCube on top of it [mac.com] . The only thing keeping Macs from having a lot of games running "on" it :) is that very few consumer 17" monitors can display both Mac mini's 768p DVI/VGA output and the GameCube's 480i S-video output (the component cable is nearly unavailable, and newer Cubes don't even have the jack for it).

Re:Proudly dying for 20 years (0, Troll)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790486)

You can't explain the corporate world's unwillingness to use Macs away with "No Games". It really is the lack of applications.

Look at this way: Many people think that Macs are a superior video editing machines due to the applicaitons, primarily Final Cut Pro. Now realize that video editing is only 1 in a Million niche markets, and in most of those niches Windows or Unix dominates the applicaiton choices.

Re:So, Mac's dying? (5, Informative)

phillymjs (234426) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790044)

Looks like it's once again time to dust off my "why OS X on x86 won't ever happen" post:

----------
Look, you guys just can't get it through your heads that the reason why OS X works so well is because it runs on such a limited pool of hardware-- this allows the engineers coding OS X to make assumptions THAT CANNOT BE MADE in the x86 world, where a machine could be using one of thousands of motherboards, network cards, graphics cards, sound cards, etc. Windows developers have to code for the lowest common denominator. OS X developers code for specific hardware. Even the version of NeXTStep that ran on Intel hardware ran on a tiny subset of the then-available PC hardware. If your CD-ROM drive and motherboard weren't on the "supported hardware" list that came with NeXTStep, you were SOL.

That little fantasy you all have of buying "Mac OS X for x86", running it on some homebuilt shitbox you cobbled together from spare parts, and having it work as well as a G5 runs Panther today will NEVER come to pass. Microsoft has spent twenty years and untold millions trying to achieve that goal, and they still have quite a way to go.

Do you think Jobs could just snap his fingers one day and a few months later have a product on the shelves that would run perfectly on every PC capable of running XP today? It's impossible. And even if it were possible, you wouldn't buy it. Why? Because Apple uses their software to sell their hardware, so a copy of OS X for x86 would have to be priced to ease the pain of a lost hardware sale-- you'd either do without it and bitterly bitch about the price here on /., or you'd pirate it-- either way, Apple would lose money on it.

~Philly

Re:So, Mac's dying? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790068)

assumptions THAT CANNOT BE MADE in the x86 world, where a machine could be using one of thousands of motherboards, network cards, graphics cards, sound cards, etc.

If the OS was designed in such a manner that the device manufacturers could just plug in their own code into the hardware abstraction layer. Since neither Apple or Microsoft is playing ball, you've got all these problems with heterogeneous hardware. Can you see the same problem on Linux? I don't think so.

Re:So, Mac's dying? (1)

FLAGGR (800770) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790179)

So wait, OSX for x86 comes out, and suddenly every x86 hardware company (see: one million) comes out with new drivers for OSX, and hey look they're just as bug free as the ones for the ppc osx. Anyway the idea of plugging in code to the HAL willy nilly is a scary idea, for stability and security. The problem I can see on linux is hey - not all hardware works, and a large amount of it is still experimental (not bashing it or anything, its better than windows which could be considered 100% experimental, and OSX which has it easy, with the lack of diverse hardware on ppc)

Re:So, Mac's dying? (1)

Glendale2x (210533) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790128)

... running it on some homebuilt shitbox you cobbled together from spare parts, and having it work as well as a G5 runs Panther today will NEVER come to pass.

Every time I've read your OS X on x86 post that's the line that always makes me laugh; because that's the whole point.

Re:So, Mac's dying? (5, Informative)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790154)

True. Not to mention the binaries for OS X software is built for PowerPC, not x86. Let's take Photoshop for example...

Say, for argument's sake, that Mac OS X 10.5 came out for Pentium/Athlon PC. You buy it, install it, presto. Now, you want to run Photoshop. OOH, which do you install? Photoshop for Mac OS X? No, it's compiled for PowerPC. Photoshop for Windows? No, it's compiled for Windows. You would need to buy a special Photoshop for OSX/x86, a third option.

Basically, when you put aside the software pirates (99% of Slashdot users who use Photoshop) and the rich artist/musician types (who would buy the Mac hardware anyway), OS X for x86 would be a software nightmare. For corporations, it would be a software investment crash. You can't use your legally owned Windows software on it. You also can't use your legally owned OSX PowerPC software. It just would be a failure.

The only reason Linux works on multiple platforms is because 99% of its software is open-source and can therefor be compiled for the installed architecture when needed. When you get to the prorpietary stuff, like Photoshop, it becomes a nightmare.

If you need a Linux example, look at Macromedia Flash (player) and VMware Workstatioin. Heck, even look at official NVidia drivers. Try and get those for SPARC or PowerPC Linux (or any non-x86 Linux). You can't. Now, imagine all the software for your operating system in the Flash/VMware situation. You go to buy Photoshop for OSX only to realize it's coimpiled only for PowerPC.

The only way it could work is if Adobe, Macromedia, Apple, even Microsoft (Office 2004 for Mac) needs to compile an x86 version of all its Mac OS X software and then recall all discs that only contain the PowerPC software. It would be a financial nightmare, for the consumer and the manufacturer. If you want a living example of the whole situation, look at the "64-bit" Windows XP for Itanium, or hell even Solaris.

Of course, 99% of Slashdotters who use Windows XP run a pirated copy, with a pirated version of Photoshop or whatever, so I'm sure this has all gone through one ear and out the other...

Re:So, Mac's dying? (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790251)

I don't think it would be wise for Apple to do. That said, I have one issue with your post that I'll mention.

OS X could run on the wider variety of PC hardware without too much trouble (starting to include every odd little thing would be a problem to a degree). That said Apple could go x86 (say to AMD's Hammers) and lock down the OS and such so that it only runs on Apple motherboards. Apple would stay a "little" computer company, but they would be using x86s. They could change things in every update that would make all non-Apple hardware die. So while it would work, you couldn't just buy a motherboard from your local computer store and run OS X on it. Basically a trusted computing scheme. I'd see no problem with that.

But OS X being the next Windows that you just buy at a store and will run on anything you assemble? Pipe dream. If they did do it, it wouldn't be OS X anymore because it wouldn't run quite as well.

Re:So, Mac's dying? (1)

obender (546976) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790525)

buying "Mac OS X for x86", running it on some homebuilt shitbox

There's no need to buy it, you can download BSD for free. Which does run on almost any x86 machine.
Quite likely the rest of the OSX code could be made to run on most modern graphic adapters but as it is not free code it would have to be rewritten.

I think the main reason why OSX will not run on x86 is because not many people care about it, not because it is hard to port. Windows and Linux are sufficient for almost everybody.

No, Apple will not die, here is why... (4, Insightful)

Wonderkid (541329) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790108)

OSX is in fact irrelevant to Apple's future, as are most other major operating systems to their creators. What is the future, and the iPod and Nokia's 200million per year mobile phone sales prove, is that various interconnected devices that confirm to industry standard protocols are the way forward. The electronic musical instrument industry has proven this thanks to the amazing success of MIDI which binds most instruments, yet each instrument is based on it's own unique software/hardware. OSX will become a server OS and Apple will eventually tailor software to suite the client device - as per the iPod which communicates with it's host using standard protocols (USB, MP3, Firewire etc). And if Apple don't (continue) to do this, an as yet unheard of (unformed?) company will, and they will sell products in the sort of quantities Nokia do, which dwarf even sales of the iPod and Mac. Ironically, Nokia could become the all powerful mega entity that networks our world. After all, the future is all based on communication and sharing.

Re:So, Mac's dying? (2, Insightful)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790444)

Forget it. The only way you are going to get OSX is to buy a Mac. Wishful thinking won't get you there. Apple don't need the PC market, they are growing market share regardless.

Thanks... (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11789995)

Thanks Apple

great submission! (5, Insightful)

KingPrad (518495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790004)

Kudos to the submitter and the editor for posting a useful and interesting story with a useful and concise summary. I wish we had more stories done exactly like this one.

Re:great submission! (5, Funny)

tehshen (794722) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790018)

I wish we had more stories done exactly like this one.

It'll be posted again within the next week or so, don't worry.

Re:great submission! (-1, Flamebait)

LighthouseJ (453757) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790177)

If not this particular story, another similar story praising Apple and their vision, having no real newsworthyness of course.

Re:great submission! (0, Redundant)

ack154 (591432) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790019)

Exactly...

It was all of the major points I wanted to know from the story, without having to read a bunch of BS.

Thank you guys.

Re:great submission! (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790082)

Uh? The summary sucks.

The items aren't bulleted so we don't know where each item stops (is the iPod "Halo" effect causing little demand for satellite radio?). The grammatical structure in the list isn't coherent, some items miss a verb or the subject. Usually news reporters fix Apple's bad capitalization of "iPod Shuffle" so that readers know that "shuffle" is part of the product name and not part of the point they're trying to make about iPods.

Re:great submission! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790511)

The items aren't bulleted

Uh... Slashdot doesn't support "the bullet" in which you speak.

Re:great submission! (1)

oscast (653817) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790124)

Thanks!

That was me. =)

Re:great submission! (2, Insightful)

ilyagordon (822695) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790236)

Heh, good point. The thing that bothers me the most about Slashdot story submissions is that they fail to give any background information of what the hell they're talking about. The thing that bothers me almost as much is when links within the submission must be clicked in order to decipher what the hell the submitter is saying. As a general rule of thumb, if you take the plain text of your submission (no HTML), read it, and it made no sense, maybe you should rephrase it.

An anonymous reader writes "The court ruling [linkexample.com] about this [linkexample.com] found that $15 million is owed to them [linkexample.com] . In other news, this [linkexample.com] happened [linkexample.com] before [linkexample.com] .

Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (4, Interesting)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790008)

Hook up near a TV, plug in your S-Video+Optical out, and you have your 'media center pc-less', or something.

So for $189 you have a base station, streaming music, streaming video, a print server, and no need for another computer.

Any bets on whether we'll see something like this soon?

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790024)

I seriously doubt Apple will release something until after Tiger, as such a device will undoubtedly push h.264 video, and Apple will want to have their h.264 implementation in QT7 out the door first.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (4, Insightful)

TWX (665546) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790051)

That depends on how much it costs to develop, and how many computers are already owned by the target audience. I have a video projector and a lot of other AV equipment and I've had various rackmount form factor computers hooked up to it. I like having all of it right there usable with the wireless IR keyboard. For quite some time my DVD playback was through the computer. I've since taken that computer apart and not gotten it back together, so right now I'm without a web browser in there.

If too many Apple fans already have a G3 or G4 tower laying around that has been obseleted by a more powerful Apple then they probably would hook that computer up instead of this one. Even an iMac could be integrated into an AV cabinet using a "TV View" or other VGA to NTSC device, or people could upgrade to something nicer like a TV with RGB inputs or digital. If too many people have other fairly easy options then Apple won't sell enough of these "Express 2" devices to pay off the development costs, let alone get into profit.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (4, Interesting)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790078)

You have to consider the population in general: How many people have computers near the TV; isn't that why the PC/Microsoft world is hyping media center PCs?

What I am describing is NOT a PC.

Take that old G3 or G4, and have it running iTunes. Equip it with a $60 wifi card.

Take the new Airport Express 2 and hook it up to the TV.

Stream from the computer to the TV; build in 20ft bluetooth into the Airport Express to enable a wireless keyboard and mouse. Play DVDs, music, and other content on the TV, sans PC.

Look up the Airport Express [apple.com] because I don't think you understand what I'm talking about here.

A $189 device! Not a PC at all!

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

TWX (665546) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790131)

I know exactly what you're talking about. What I'm asking is why I should spend another $200 for a device when I can just throw the PC that is laying around into the entertainment center rather than streaming over wireless or cat5. If I only have ONE computer then your device idea makes sense. If I have two computers, one of which is just sitting there because my newer one replaced it, then the old one goes into the cabinet with the VCR and stereo receiver, or goes on the floor next to it. If it's an iMac then the screen gets a piece of plastic placed over it to hide it. If it's a headless machine then it just gets plugged in, or plugged into a VGA to NTSC adapter, which is really cheap.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790162)

You're assuming then that the PC is equipped for HTPC use; TV out of sufficient quality, quieter than the quietest parts of a quiet movie, no audio distortion from the power supply when playing music, no adverse EM distortion on the TV from the computer, etc.

I think many households are still single computer; and those with two computers, one is for kids and one is for parents, and the parents are those that have modems, 15" screens, and the original Pentium processor. At least that's what I've seen at my aunt's, my in-laws, and my dad's!

But all of them would enjoy, I think, the benefits of an Airport Express 2. Yes, I understand I'm leveraging anecdote, rather than statistical data, but really, how many leftover PCs do you know that have the capability to act as media libraries?

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

TWX (665546) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790263)

I've had many consumer-level PCs near AV equipment, and I've never had any problems with electronic interference, and never any noise problems that couldn't be easily overcome by turning up the volume. Between the ceiling fan, the air conditioning blower motor, the traffic outside, the dog barking, and the conversations happening, the fans and hard disk drive of your average PC sitting across the room from you are negligible.

There's this device called a "TV View" that converts VGA to NTSC, as I've already stated twice. I have extensive experience with them as my employer has thousands of them hooked to PCs and Macintoshes. They work fine at 640x480 or 800x600. They're cheap, and there are others that are even cheaper than these.

Gateway 2000 tried to build a PC for the entertainment center, called the Destination series. It was a flop. I've never seen any corporate entertainment center PC take off, and I doubt that I will until everyone has HDTV with happy little digital inputs and until the costs of the units get down to near your average decent quality DVD player or AV receiver. Most people don't know how to even use their PCs for what they already can do anyway, and those that do frequently have their own solutions already in place, so I doubt that your device is going to attract too many buyers.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

tepples (727027) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790438)

and never any noise problems that couldn't be easily overcome by turning up the volume.

There are two ways to accomplish this: either turn up the volume of the whole mix such that explosions are painful on your eardrums, or compress the crap out of the mix's dynamics to get dialogue to a listenable 75 dB SPL while having neither the cover shots nor the explosions excessively distorted.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (4, Insightful)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790305)

Because most people aren't like you. Take a look next time you visit a non-geek. You'll notice that there isn't a tatty old computer sitting by or under the TV. And if you even suggested such a thing, Mrs Non-geek will tell you your not having any such thing in her lounge thank you very much. Computers belong in the office/den.

Even for those people that are OK with the idea, most desktop computers have too much fan noise to be used for the purpose.

You go with your idea. It's just the thing that geeks do. I might consider doing it myself. But recognise that you and I are in the tiny minority.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

TWX (665546) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790340)

Okay then, how many Mrs. Non-geeks are going to let their family room be turned into another workstation? How many are going to want to take a device that they already don't know how to use very well (the computer) and try to use it for DVDs, streaming video, music, or anything else like that? Remember, NTSC televisions don't have the resolution that it takes to have a decent web surfing experience, so unless she likes running back to the den to put a movie in or to change CDs then odds are that she's going to want individual stereo audio components or else an all-in-one multimedia device that plays CDs and DVDs and has the surround sound built in. Ease of use, with a button that has "play" printed on it are what she's looking for.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790399)

This product already exists -- NetGear MP115. Also the Haupauge MediaMVP ($90), but it's not wireless yet.

I can't imagine any situation where Apple would get into a market where $189 is the starting price and they're competing with the bottom of the barrel manufacturers.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

killjoe (766577) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790441)

The Hauppauge MediaMVP, Model 1000 is a 85 dollar device that does pretty much the same thing without the wireless.

It can also act as a front end to mythtv.

The problem with the macs is not the front end, it's the back end. How do you get your mac to record the TV signal without spending a bundle bundle and how do you run your cable from the living room to your office.

If the apple wireless device you mentioned could also encode video and stream it back to the PC then you'd have something. Even then I doubt wireless would have enough bandwidth for smooth encoding and decoding of video.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (2, Informative)

am 2k (217885) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790085)

Elgato already offers something like that: EyeHome [elgato.com]

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (1)

2nd Post! (213333) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790122)

Nope [elgato.com] . It needs to become a wireless product to be even close to what I'm describing; it has to be disconnected from the PC, so it needs 802.11g. The EyeHome still needs a cable to plug into an Airport Express.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (4, Informative)

Leo McGarry (843676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790133)

First, SD video is dead. Forget it. It's history, over, gone. So there will be no S-video output. It'll be either DVI or HDMI with a pigtail-style adapter to go to component analog. (DVI has the ability to carry an analog signal alongside the digital one. I'm only assuming HDMI does too.)

Second, such a device would require a dedicated AVC decoder chip, which would push the price range up into at least the $400 range. Mark my words, when it debuts at $399, every armchair CEO in the world is going to bitch about the price.

Finally, what's the point of building a print server into a device that's meant to plug into your television? Anybody who wants to plug a printer into a wireless network can already buy either an AirPort Extreme base station or an AirPort Express, or any number of third-party wireless products.

Re:Sounds like Apple is planning Airport Express 2 (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790188)

I'll bet you 50 Dork points it doesn't happen.
I'll also bet you 100 WhoGivesAShit(s) it doesn't take place.
You up for it?

In other words... (2, Interesting)

TWX (665546) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790011)

...what we've already known either because the products are out or because there have been pre-release photos of real equipment.

As much as I'd like Apple to diversify and build more products suitable to my needs, a 17" wide "pizza box" of an entertainment center computer isn't very likely and probably wouldn't sell well enough to pay off development costs. I'd buy one if it were less than $800, but the odds of that are small.

Re:In other words... (1)

BasilBrush (643681) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790343)

We didn't know about margins on iPods and Mac minis before. Nor have we had such a clear signal that they don't intend doing a video iPod or a media center Mac. Though streaming video from a Mac in the office to the TVs in the house in the form of an video Airport Express sounds likely.

Make An Example Outta Me (1)

OccidentalSlashy (809265) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790016)

Seriously, that company has been dying for 30 years...why should they stop now??

no video for ipod ... (1, Interesting)

xlyz (695304) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790017)

network, no video for iPod, portable media centers a failure

I agree 100%

I wonder why anyone would be willing to watch tv on a micro screen

limit to portability are not in the device size, but in the UI size!!

Re:no video for ipod ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790053)

Try a Sony PSP ... I was shocked to see and experience the device. Not much bigger than my iPod, but wow what a device. More than capable of delivering a movie to ANY location (wireless b included). Comes in handy in cars, stadiums, campings, etc. Digital tv receiver add on and there you go ...

Re:no video for ipod ... (2, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790072)

Adding video to the iPod costs Apple practically nothing. It doesn't matter if other portable media players were a failure, adding that feature to the iPod would lead to incremental additional sales at virtually no extra cost. I don't believe Apple when it says it isn't thinking about video for the iPod.

The thing that is holding back portable media, in my opinion, is the lack of easy, legal, content. Providing people with easy access to digital content is something Apple knows a little about. Why wouldn't CBS license Apple to distribute survivor on iPods for $1 an episode? You think they are going to get money from syndication? I don't think so. $30 DVD sets? Maybe from some people. Don't get distracted by the specific example, the point is valid.

Re:no video for ipod ... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790217)

what if the iPod (or something else) of the future had technology with those foldable fabric or super flexible plastic or whatever it is that they're working on...for screens? so you could potentially have a tiny device, but a nice screen you could unfold or stretch or whatever.

how 'bout they (whoever is developing this sort of tech) make screens that you can scale to any size? a minimum size to a maximum size, and you can size it to anything in between. realistic?

Re:no video for ipod ... (1)

michaeldot (751590) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790218)

portable media centers a failure

I agree 100%.

I wonder why anyone would be willing to watch tv on a micro screen.

I tried it for a bit - I ripped a few movies into the appropriate "lite" DivX format and watched them on my iPAQ (a 1GB flash card can hold quite a bit and my model could take both CF and SD cards).

It was okay at the start, but the novelty wore off fairly quickly. I guess I only started doing it "because it was there" and it seemed like a good idea at the time.

I suspect most people who get keen on the Portable Media Center are like that. Still, as long as their interest lasts long enough to buy the devices, it's probably worth the manufacturers making them. Why should they care if they start kicking around the junk drawer in a month! Since when does technology HAVE to be used by everyone all the time? I disagree that Portable Media Center is a failure.

I'm niche...I admit it..... (3, Interesting)

The Mutant (167716) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790505)

I've got not only a one hour train commute, but also an Archos AV400 [archos.com] .

I'm an American finance geek living in London, so every morning my handheld PVR records the overnite BBC Business News [bbc.co.uk] at 3:45AM. I watch the 45 news broadcast while I'm headed to work at 5:51AM damn early in the morning!

I get a lot of utility out of time shifting the BBC, and would dump my iPod(s) (3G 20GB, 1GB Shuffle) in a heartbeat if my Archos (it also plays MP3's with cover art) matched half my iPods battery life. At present I get three hours tops.

I own ten Mac's (two G3 iMacs, a ClamShell iBook, two SEs, a MacTV, a PowerMac 5500/275, a G4 TiBook, a 15" G4 PowerBook, a G4 Cube) and still use the OS X capable machines daily. Even though I grok Apple deeply, they'd better put together a PVR solution ASAP.

It's their market to lose. I only own two iPaqs because my Newtons were getting long in the tooth.

I just don't get this (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790037)

Halo wasn't even that good, but it's being given now not only credit for the success of the XBox but the success of the iPod??

Something is seriously wrong with us as consumers if we are so reordering our world for such a mediocre FPS.

Re:I just don't get this (0)

Phil246 (803464) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790056)

the XBox is/was a success? last i saw it was making abhorrant losses and was only around because of microsoft doing the usual 'Extend and Embrace' routine where they prop a failing part up with lots of money , then try outpricing everyone else out of the market

Ssh (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790062)

But it's still successful, because of "the Halo effect"

Re:I just don't get this (1)

michaeldot (751590) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790321)

At Comdex, Bill Gates stated Halo 2 was a phenomenal success and gave sales figures over the Christmas period which probably exceeded the download figure of ALL the Linux distros put together. All those people would have needed XBoxen, there are a lot of them out there, whether they're sold below cost or not.

How do you measure success?!

It relative terms, it means Halo alone (arguably the only good game the XBox has ever had relative to the better games of the PS2) has got enough people hooked on the XBox to make XBox 2 a real money spinner and hand PlayStation its ass on a plate. Thinks for the long term, does Bill G.

As for me, the XBox with its black and green motif reminds me of the interior of a Borg vessel. Seriously appropriate for Microsoft!

Mac Mini good for college kids? (4, Interesting)

Faust7 (314817) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790091)

This is somewhat believable. I'd wager that average college students would be a prime target for the Mac Mini, as well - unlike Apple's laptops, it doesn't cost a mint, and its size would be a great advantage for students living in space-challenged dorm rooms. Most of the software they'd need would be on it, too. Your usual non-computer-geeky college kid would play games on their console, not their computer, and the Mac has Microsoft Office and fine Internet capabilities. Colleges use plenty of specialized software (e.g. statistics packages) but most kids go to the labs to use that stuff rather than bothering to acquire their own copies. If the Mini can make a successful tie-in with the iPod in the minds of this particular target audience, then Apple stands a fighting chance of boosting its market share at least with that segment.

Apple is very good at marketing perceived value (iMac, iPod, etc.) as opposed to embedded value (the way Microsoft pushes most of their products). I'd say that perceived value is what matters a lot in the impressionable minds of young students.

Mint (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790130)

Powerbooks cost a mint, but, damn, they is nice 'puters! I bought mine for 8 weeks of work travel, but I use it at home far more than my desktop Mac. I'm using it right now!

And, unknown to most, Powerbooks are actually mint flavored. Yummy!

Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790149)

"space-challenged dorm rooms"

Hahaha! I love it. It is so unfortunately true too.

Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (1, Insightful)

Leo McGarry (843676) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790150)

No, college kids buy iBooks. Mac minis are no good for dorm-bound teens. The Mac mini is specifically for switchers who are replacing an obsolete PC with a new Mac.

Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (2, Insightful)

NutscrapeSucks (446616) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790353)

The Mac mini is specifically for switchers who are replacing an obsolete PC with a new Mac.

Funny how the Apple exec didn't say that. I'm guessing the main markets for the Mini are (in this order):

1) People who would otherwise buy eMacs (schools, etc)
2) People with older G3 Macs that are looking for a cheap upgrade
3) People with newer Macs that want a second machine
4) Switchers or PC users who are Mac Curious.
5) New computer users

This is based on the historical trend that most Mac sales tend to go to existing Mac users. Even for the most successful machines like the G3 iMac, only a small % of sales went to switchers.

All in all, the Mini is great for Apple because it allows them to the 'trailing edge' of their installed base up to OS X-level specs before they are tempted by Dell's prices. But whether it is compelling to PC users is still an open question.

Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (0, Troll)

thogard (43403) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790497)

Apple has no idea who their market is for the mini-mac. Its selling very well but I don't think they have a clue who is buying them or why.

I just got one and its got some problems.
1) its disk is too small and slow.
2) its case must cost a fortune to make
3) its less 3rd party friendly than any other current mac.
4) the bluetooth and wifi require a second board installed and look like a last minute hack.

I think they should do a mini mac ][ with a bigger case. Two memory slots, no modem, slots for wifi and bluetooth built in and a 3.5 inch disk. A major market for the mini mac is corp replacement for beige boxes and I think they should take advantage of that while they can still ride the hype.

Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (4, Insightful)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790175)

unlike Apple's laptops, it doesn't cost a mint
Bullshit. An iBook only costs ~$400 more than the Mini, and that's including a keyboard, mouse, LCD screen, battery, and portablility. At least an equally good value, I'd say.

I am a college student, and I bought my "good for college students" Mac more than a year before anyone had even heard of the Mini! Saying "the Mini is a good value" is good, but saying it's the only Apple with good value is just FUD.

Re:Mac Mini good for college kids? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790247)

You can get a brand new iBook [amazon.com] for under a thousand dollars. So, no, not all of Apple's laptops cost a lot.

This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (5, Insightful)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790093)

no plans for media center PC - prefers to stream multimedia to TV from primary computer over wireless network


I don't buy that Apple will buy Tivo, but I can see them creating a Tivo-like device with these abilities:

DVR with free remote control service (why free? wait a second)
Ties right into the iTunes Movie store.

Right, Movie store. Imagine Jobs going to the MPAA and saying "Hey, remember all the problems the RIAA had with downloading? Lawsuits didn't help enough - but now we have legal music, and people are buying music online, and look how many songs I've sold.

"Join with me, and we can end this pointless conflict, and bring order to - *cough*, I mean, we can sell movies."

The PC/Mac will still be the hub - use iTunes to buy music, or buy a movie. You can put either on a new iPod, but for the movies, the iView (just a name I threw in) will be the best way.

Want to watch a movie? Forget Netflix - just use the iTunes store. How about a documentary (independent movie makers who have limited releases would love this - what if you could pick up a documentary for $10, and around 50,000 people all wanted to - now that little indie project just broke even).

Miss a TV show? Why DVR it (though you have that power) when you can go to your computer, type "Battlestar" or "Babylon" to get the entire current archives (including commercial), and for $3 (or $20 for the entire season), you can watch your movies *now* (or, with broadband and figuring about 300 MB per 30 minutes, about 30 minutes or so).

The biggest thing of this is what it turns Apple into. With the iPod and the iTunes Music store, apple is moving away from hardware systems, and going towards hardware accessories and services. Eventually, I can see a Linux client - but in the end, Apple won't care what you run as long as you buy an iPod and use their iTunes store for movies and music - they still make money (though they'll still tell you a Mac will work better, and as the services do well they'll sell more Macs along the way).

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (1)

Tyrdium (670229) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790148)

Now *that* would kick ass. I sincerely hope your prediction is correct.

Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790170)

TIVO would be interesting, and apple's current strategy does seem to be to ask "what works" and then make the product. But I think apple would regain a lot more strength by buying LeapFrog than from TIVO. Really, I think apple has lost its place in elementary and high schools, and is suffering from the lack of exposure in these venues. LeapFrog has the educational presence to gain from a connection with apple.

Imagine that entire schools get sold a LeapFrog handheld learning device (such as their iQuest) outfitted with airport ($200/ea) and have it connect to a teachers iBook for instant attendance, grading, pop quizzing, etc. Instead of selling 30-60 laptops to the average school for a "mobile computer lab" instead sell 20-40 laptops for the classrooms/teachers, and 2,000 iQuests for each classroom to use. Teachers have to have the Apple laptop to work with the class's handheld, so windows is out. Giving laptops to students has already been shown to be too prone to breaking, abuse, etc. without much gain.

Apple then regains the exposure, and gives a better deal for making an electronic classroom than anyone.

Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790220)

Why do that when they can just sell 2,000 actual iBooks, one for each student? That's actually happening in Cobb County, Georgia (Slashdotters might recognize them as the same ones who put the "evolution is a theory" stickers on textbooks). Sadly, I have the dubious honor of living only a few counties away...

Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790414)

The problem is that you can be sure the margins on any $200 handheld will be terrible -- AND it's an entirely unique platform to support. Plus even at that price point, you are still competing with lowend PCs.

Bingo bango bongo (4, Interesting)

mblase (200735) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790176)

Miss a TV show? Why DVR it when you can go to your computer, type "Battlestar" or "Babylon" to get the entire current archives, and for $3 (or $20 for the entire season), you can watch your movies *now*.

A column not too long ago (don't ask me to recall who or when or where) discussed this sort of thing in light of sites like "Homestar Runner". The case was that this is the future of video entertainment -- visit the show's web site and download and watch any episode you like, in any order, at any time, rather than wait for your favorite episode to reach syndication or buy the whole season on DVD.

The bandwidth, I think, is still the biggest problem, but that's just a matter of time and R&D. And the difference in quality from downloadable video vs. HDTV will, like the difference between MP3 and CD quality audio, keep the downloadable format from completely replacing TV broadcasts or DVD sales.

All we (and Apple) need is the device to do it, at a price point people can afford. That too is a matter of time -- iPods arrived costing, what, $400? $500? Now you can get a Mini for $200 and a Shuffle for even less.

I think Apple would like to sell just what it described in the article: a program that lets you download and view video on your computer, but supplemented by a small remote-controlled set-top device that streams it wirelessly to your television set, a la Airport Express. Video on an iPod-sized device is impractical by any measure, but video on your television set is a given -- but it has to be as easy to use as a DVD player. Fortunately, that sort of ease of use is Apple's specialty.

I perceive this as a certainty, not a possibility -- it's just a matter of when.

Re:This is where the Tivo rumors could come in (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790178)

Scooped! [shapeofdays.com]

Damn! (1)

Dark Paladin (116525) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790225)

And the article even mentioned Battlestar.

Well, great minds think alike - and since you're a Coward, here's the link to the article that talks about the same kind of thing I did:

http://www.shapeofdays.com/2005/01/the_movie_store .html [shapeofdays.com]

Wonderful submission (1)

roror (767312) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790136)

Very nice and concise summary of the story.

Thank you.

Re:Wonderful submission (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790195)

just don't get used to it

Um, so what? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790142)

I mean front page? Come on. Anyone who trades tech stocks knows that companies are constantly participating in various financial conferences where these sorts of presentations are given.

Are we now going to get financial info for AMD, Intel, Sun, SGI, IBM, Novell, RHAT, NVDA, ATI, etc?

Yeah, Apple is re-inventing itself. Good for them. But news of their shifting margins is boring.

Re:Um, so what? (2, Funny)

Elranzer (851411) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790292)

I mean front page? Come on. Anyone who trades tech stocks knows that companies are constantly participating in various financial conferences where these sorts of presentations are given.

True. Frontpage [microsoft.com] sucks so bad the Microsoft even dropped it from the standard Office suite. I think they replaced it with Publisher.

You know a product sucks really bad when it loses market share to Notepad.exe

I Switched (5, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790163)

I switched. There are about 10-15 blog style entries on the page mentioned in my sig about it. Here is a short version of why:

Used to like Apple, moved to PC for customizability/etc (in mid 90s). Never considered moving back because the more I learned, the more obviously out of date the Mac OS was. Then I learned Linux and fell in love with Unix. Add to that the hate and distrust I've gained in MS and I was ready to jump ship (and I knew it wouldn't be too hard for me, unlike some people). Linux didn't seem "there", I wanted something more mainstream. When OS X came around (and I got to try it on my brother's PB) I really liked it, and started following it. I got an iPod, which did serve to remind me of Apple's quality. Then when my current computer (a Dell laptop that served me well for 4+ years) became too slow for my needs I waited until new PowerBooks were announced and I bought one. The whole (longer) story is in the site linked to in my sig.

So as for "the halo effect", I'm not so sure. It might happen for some people. I used to love Apple so I was really just finding them again. And even without the iPod I would have switched because of OS X. I have three observations on all of this. First is that iTunes really showed me how nice Apple software was these days (iTunes on Windows was the first Apple program I'd used since leaving my old LC II in about 95). Second was if OS X was available on a PC (as some want it, and as some other companies have been asking Apple) I doubt I would have switched (why switch processor architectures when you don't have to?). And third, I had been wanting a Mac to try OS X on for the last few years, but even used Macs were expensive (for what you got). Had the Mini been available 2 years go (the equivelent kind of computer, at that price point, not neccessisarily that size) I would have bought one as fast as I could and I may have switched earlier.

I'm not the "typical" switcher (someone relativly new to computers and raised on Wintel that went to Apple) since I'm a power user (used the OS 7 back in the day, Linux, most flavors of Windows, etc); but I switched and I am VERY happy with my new little Mac. Next step: evangilizing when people ask me about what to buy for their first computer!

Re:I Switched (1)

mrchaotica (681592) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790328)

I never liked the old classic Macs; my first computer was a Tandy 286 running DOS. I proceeded to Windows, from 3.1 to XP, and never had a problem.

And then I tried Linux.

I fell in love with the UNIX philosophy and the command-line, started noticing how much of a horrible heap of shit Windows is (and how evil Microsoft is), and stopped using Windows entirely.

But then I realised that, despite having a lot of fun, Linux wasn't perfect either -- I was spending a lot of my time assembling my OS, instead of using it. So, when I needed a laptop for school I bought an iBook.

I haven't used my PCs (Windows or Linux) since, except to play Half-Life or when I was feeling nostalgic for Linux.

FaiBlzors (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790174)

clEarly become paranoid conspiracy

switchers (3, Interesting)

tverbeek (457094) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790180)

iPod "Halo" effect is causing some Windows switchers

I can confirm that anecdotally. Last night I got a call from my uncle and my cousin the college student. She has yet another broken Windows laptop (it'll cost several hundred bucks to fix it), and they wanted the family geek's advice on what kind of computer to get to replace it. Without me even having to suggest it, she (an iPod owner) had already been looking at Apples. So I just steered them toward the 12" iBook with AppleCare. Talking to her, I added that it'd match her iPod; to him, I explained that it was the best bang for the buck of the Apple line, and AppleCare would be cheaper than any repairs that might be needed.

Re:switchers (3, Insightful)

michaeldot (751590) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790529)

they wanted the family geek's advice on what kind of computer to get to replace it.

Yes, I think that's how most people decide to buy computers - word of mouth from trusted friends & family.

Lucky for her (and Apple), you're obviously a Mac enthusiast, but 97% of the market is not, and will continue to advise people to get what THEY know.

(Most of my computer using relatives know nothing about Macs, just that they can't stand them because they only have one mouse button, don't have any software, no one uses them at work, and are too expensive, blah, blah, blah. Guess what most of my extended family uses? Windows...)

I guess that's why us Apple fan(atic)s get so annoyingly evangelical: we have to get our 2% voices heard about the 97% louder voices.

Video Player (1)

derEikopf (624124) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790191)

Today's crop of portable media viewers are too bulky to carry as comfortably as the iPod, yet have screens he said are too small to enjoy a movie the same way you would on a TV or laptop.

What about a video-out port so a consumer could play movies on a TV? There would even be no need for a color screen, and it would only increase the size very little....

I have the opposite problem (1)

Quiet_Desperation (858215) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790269)

My friend's mom has an old iMac, and she never got the hang of computers. Both my friend and I have tried to get her up to speed, but it's no good. She's not stupid by any measure, but she is one of those people who simply cannot grasp the basic concepts of computers.

You all know the difference between an application and the files it creates. She doesn't get that. She doesn't understand the concept of the drives having a top level and sub directories. When she saves an email attachment, she has to go into the file search function to find out where it wound up becuase she can't grasp the save file browser. And she uses AOL

Apple needs to come out with "Mac OS Lite". There's quite a number of people like my friend's mom. The basic computer concepts we take for granted are inaccessible abstractions to them. For example, if they get a ".doc" attachment, this computer would tell them it's an Office Word file, and what they need to do to open it, and so on.

Re:I have the opposite problem (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790524)

Man, people that do not understand those basic forms of directory structures (or at least never understanding hoy it works, specially on OS X, shouldn't be using a computer at all. It can not be any simpler. If a 4 year old can understand it, that means the adult is a complete moron! And I know many of those!

This can't be, it just can't be. (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790448)

I really and honestly cannot believe that all of you morons would argue over the dumbest shit.

You people are in dire need of a life.

They told me that morons hang out here and I just had to see it for myself.

Re:This can't be, it just can't be. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11790530)

You'll fit right in.

No media center PC? (2, Interesting)

FaasNat (522755) | more than 9 years ago | (#11790501)

Thought there were going to be some big plans for a digital hub. Seems that a unit capable of displaying digital pictures (iPhoto), digital tunes (Tunes), digital movies (DVD player, Quicktime), and digital TV shows (through their own means or if they acquired TiVo) would be at the top of the digital hubs. I thought the Mac Mini would've been a great digital hub item, but it's missing a digital audio out.
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