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Knoppix 3.8 at CeBIT w/ Kernel 2.6, FF, and More

timothy posted more than 9 years ago | from the slicing-edge dept.

Operating Systems 283

clsc writes "The German tech news site Heise Online reports that Knoppix 3.8 is being presented at CeBIT (Hall 9, Stand C39). Knoppix 3.8 has kernel 2.6 as default, KDE 3.3.2, OpenOffice 1.1.4, as well as... Firefox 1.0 and Thunderbird 1.0. There's also a really neato new thing involving unionfs . It seems to imply that you can change most anything on the running system, even as it is running from CD - and changes can be stored too (even on NTFS)."

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cool (4, Interesting)

xbmodder (805757) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821422)

Nothing to see here... Only the best linux boot CD ever Knoppix has saved me thousands. They should win the Nobel Prize or something.

Re:cool (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821463)

GREEN DAY LIVES!!!!!!

Re:cool (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821478)

unfortunately Oasis no langer does.. Wouldn't be surprised if they've bashed eachother with empty spirit bottles until they didn't wake up again.

What about a beowulf cluster of these? (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821425)

MUHAHAHAH

Re:What about a beowulf cluster of these? (1, Offtopic)

I kan Spl (614759) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821480)

Actually I think that would be a good idea. I have a bunch of boxes at home, is there any distro out there that would boot form a cd and turn them into a cluster for some instant number crunching?

Re:What about a beowulf cluster of these? (4, Informative)

advocate_one (662832) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821516)

Yes... just google for it... it comes up top with just a simple search... deity... kids these days want everything served up for them... too darn lazy, that's what it is... grrr... when I were a lad... we had to build our own clusters from scratch... none of these new fangled magic tools like ClusterKnoppix [bofh.be] ... aye... right tough we were...

Re:What about a beowulf cluster of these? (1)

CiRu5 (859713) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821829)

Not to be picky but I believe openKnoppix uses openMosix for clustering and this does not create a beowolf cluster, it simply shares the load of individual processes over the cluster..... A beowolf requires the programs be specifically programmed for spilting up the program into "cells" and sends those cells of "a" program across the cluster.... openMosix just sends various processes to other computers on the cluster to share the total load.......still really cool though.

Re:What about a beowulf cluster of these? (1)

espenfjo (690929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821520)

You can always try ClusterKnoppix.
http://bofh.be/clusterknoppix/
I t uses OpenMosix, so it`s only 2.4 yet.

Re:What about a beowulf cluster of these? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821535)

Yes, Quantian [eddelbuettel.com] , which is based on ClusterKnoppix [bofh.be] .

write to its own disk? (1)

qewl (671495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821429)

Could the OS when running from CD also possibly be able to write to itself also, so long as it was a RW disk?

Re:write to its own disk? (3, Insightful)

ErichTheWebGuy (745925) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821451)

Or maybe with multi-session CDs, assuming that there is enough room on the CD? Programs could be loaded with the changes you have made, say, to config files... Doesn't seem impossible, and probably more reliable than a CD-RW...

Re:write to its own disk? (1)

ctr2sprt (574731) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821728)

It could probably be done. You'd need to layer something like FreeBSD's unionfs on top of the running system and back it by memory. When the memory disk gets near full, or the user requests it, it could then be turned into a session and burned to disk, at which point the MD would be emptied and readied for more changes. However this would require remounting the filesystem so the kernel notices the changes you just made, or altering the kernel so it's done automatically. This would be cake for /var or /usr or whatever, harder for /. Remember the days of e2fs when after fsck did something it would say "REBOOT LINUX"? Making changes to a "read-only" filesystem can cause kernel panics.

The easier way of doing it would be with a more robust filesystem like UDF. (Although Linux does support e[23]fs etc. on CDs, you probably can't boot from it.) With enough driver support the CD drive would become just another block device, eliminating the need for hacks like the above. This was, in fact, the case with my SCSI DVD-RAM drive. I just ran mke2fs on it and treated it like a (slow) hard disk. I could even fdisk it.

Note that by allowing this sort of thing you lose some of the benefits of a read-only live CD, in particular its immunity to viruses and such. You'd have to be sure to use CD-R discs, or use the live CD only in a CD-ROM (and not a CD-R or CD-RW) drive.

Re:write to its own disk? (1)

bombshelter13 (786671) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821813)

Hey, look... in the third line of the article it says that the new disc we're discussing is using unionfs. How convenient.

Re:write to its own disk? (2, Informative)

clsc (730336) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821656)

I understand this to be the exact case. From TFA:

Damit lassen sich im laufenden System sämtliche Dateien verändern; selbst das Nachinstallieren von Software in das CD-Linux ist problemlos möglich.

"With this all data on the running system can be changed; even post-install of software on the linux CD is possible without problems"

(no, i don't know exactly what the term "post-install" ("Nachinstallieren") means but i guess it's just any install of software that is not already on the disk)

Re:write to its own disk? (1)

clsc (730336) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821683)

Error: "Dateien" means "files" not "data". I apologize even though it doesn't change the conclusion.

Re:write to its own disk? (1)

tktk (540564) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821677)

I just thought about this very question a few days ago. I had just started to play around with mini distributions, i.e. DSL, BeatrIX. They're supposed to be burnt onto 3" discs or those business card discs. But all I had were regular sized 700mb dics. And I wondered if I could somehow burn config files or newly installed program onto the unused space.

I'm not a programmer so I don't know if it's truly feasible. And frankly I didn't think any more of it. But if a Live CD could burn new info onto itself, I think it'd be a huge step forward for Live CD distros.

Or better yet, burn a Live CD distro, like Knoppix, onto a DVD and use the remain GBs as storage space.

In any case, I suspect it would take huge amount of ram.

Remaster (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821833)

It is pretty easy to remaster your own Knoppix flaver. I do not have the steps at hand so I can't help you out on that one but some googeling will bring you results I think. I learen the steps from the O'Reily book titled "Knoppix Hacks", I had to alter the steps just a little bit since the book covers 3.6 and I use 3.7, but nothing really annoying or difficult. You can install whatever you want with apt-get

Re:write to its own disk? (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821859)

Why? Flash is cheap.

And really, unless you're dealing with old PCs that don't have USB, why not just stick the entire distro on a USB flash drive?

Re:write to its own disk? (1)

Frogbert (589961) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821865)

I considered this when I first started playing around with Mt Rainer drives. Essentially a Mt Rainer formatted cdrw allows for it to be used as normal removable storage. The linux kernel has support for it however I don't think it would be that practical, with that said I now have no doubt that soon some geek smarter then I will get around to doing it.

Knoppix is really good (5, Interesting)

Dancin_Santa (265275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821431)

I like to take it with me to the computer store to try out on the various laptops I am considering buying. If Knoppix doesn't have any trouble with the device drivers, I feel comfortable buying the laptop. If it runs into some issues, I can scratch that laptop off my list. And since it doesn't have any longterm effect on the existing OS, it can be loaded on with impunity.

That's how I decided which fileservers to buy to run my distribution center.

Re:Knoppix is really good (3, Interesting)

carrett (671802) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821443)

yeah. it's also great for people who are new to linux and unsure if they actually want to install it on their machine. i tell all my n00b friends that if knoppix works fine on their box, then, theoretically when they install a distro on their harddisk it should work as well (especially if it is debian-based).

Re:Knoppix is really good (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821470)

That's how I decided which fileservers to buy to run my distribution center.

HAHAHAHAHA! You sir are a genious!

Re:Knoppix is really good (3, Insightful)

zarkzervo (634677) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821539)

I like to take it with me to the computer store to try out on the various laptops I am considering buying.

"Sir!. I want you to leave the store. Or else I'll have to call the police. Your |\/|4D h4x0R 5k1Lz have no place here."

But seriously. I believe you have to be prepared to use about 30 minutes to explain to the clerk what you are trying to do. Too many have not heard about Linux (and even fewer have heard about Knoppix) and think you are damaging the setup of the computers.

Re:Knoppix is really good (2, Funny)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821567)

Hm...I should bring one of my LiveCDs into the computer lab here as an experiment. Then again, considering one guy ended up with police on his doorstep because his use of lynx scared a librarian...

Re:Knoppix is really good (3, Informative)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821578)

You could always offer to buy the computer outright if it doesn't go back to the way it was before you got there after you have a look at it with Knoppix (which it of course it will). The sales clerk may think they have an easy sale on their hands.

Bullshit! (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821628)

You could always offer to buy the computer outright if it doesn't go back to the way it was before you got there after you have a look at it with Knoppix (which it of course it will).

Have you ever tried rebooting a computer (ab)used as a demo in a computer store? The chances are that in 85% cases it won't even boot. (Yes, IAACSC - i am a comp. store clerk). Besides, if you think any intelligent person would ever let you boot your own OS in his machine than you must be crazy. "Oh, look, it went back to the way it was before I got there after I had a look at it with Knoppix, which proves I have not installed any trojans!" I seriously hope your post was a joke.

Re:Bullshit! (1)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821646)

People will often install trojans on a store computer without booting another os, all you need is a cd with a windows autorun on it and a few seconds to insert it.. Not very difficult and unlikely to get noticed.

Funny (-1, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821586)

I like to take it with me to the computer store to try out on the various laptops I am considering buying.

This is what I did with my friend few months ago: we tried many computers in 14 different stores in my town telling the clerks that we wanted to test whether it works on Linux. The sound never worked (we disabled sound drivers on our custom iso), so we had to test a lot of computers and eventually leave with nothing. We rooted 95% of them. It was a lot of fun driving through the town next day, parking next to the stores we hacked the day before, and activate our briliant "show goatse on every screen on the display"-procedure with our laptop (maybe one day I'll post the video on the web). Frankly we stopped when we saw a women with a child crying going out of the sixth store feeling kind of guilty, but the bottom line is: you should NEVER be allowed to use knoppix on ANY computer that does not belong to you. If anyone lets you do this, he is utterly dumb and deserves to be hacked. Especially someone working in the store. It is trivial to install bo2k or any other trojan with knoppix even on a protected pc with tight security only exposing unprivileged accounts to customers. No one should ever let you boot your own OS on his computer. I was really surprised when I read a year ago that a lot of people do this while buying harsware, hence my proof-of-concept idea. Displaying goatse may be harmless fun, but imagine what would happen if we turned all of those machines into spam zombies. Those are machines that people buy and take home, mind you.

Re:Funny (1)

Pantero Blanco (792776) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821610)

Rather, you shouldn't be allowed to run it without someone who knows what you're doing standing behind you. Letting a customer use it to test drivers, but someone should make sure an immature jackass isn't using it as a chance to cause havoc.

Re:Funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821679)

But that's the whole point! We ran it with people from the store watching what we were doing, some of them even told us that they use Linux themselves and it's a pity they can't sell Linux preinstalled without the Windows-tax, or telling us that they use Knoppix all the time. In three stores we wouldn't even touch the PC but only give our CD to a "linux guy" working at the store who did the testing for us! Please reread my previous post. The whole point is that we had a customized iso - it had sound drivers removed and during the boot time it installed our trojan on the Windows partition. Here how it looked for anyone "who knows what we're doing standing behind" us: a normal Knoppix boot, KDE desktop starts. We were like: "Hey, I didn't hear the 'initiating starting sequence' voice. Are the speakers on? Let's check out some music from vorbis.com. Oh shit, doesn't work, let's try another machine..." The only program we were using was Mozilla browser and XMMS audio player. The whole point of our proof is that a customer should NEVER be allowed to use his own OS to "test drivers" unless you are willing to reinstall a clean system EVERY TIME he does it. Anyone who things otherwise deserves to be rooted.

Re:Funny (1)

Barnoid (263111) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821781)

The whole point is that we had a customized iso - it had sound drivers removed and during the boot time it installed our trojan on the Windows partition. [...]

What a smart 'proof of concept', installing a troyan on a Windows machine. Hope you are proud of yourself.

Would you prefer if nobody lets you test their computers and you can find out *after* you bought it whether it runs Linux flawlessly or not?

Re:Funny (1)

Trogre (513942) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821619)

Displaying goatse may be harmless fun, but imagine what would happen if we turned all of those machines into spam zombies.

Please don't ever say that goatse is harmless again. Your little experiment would have been much funnier (and less traumatising) if you'd used a pic like this. [shakykaiser.com]

Re:Funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821694)

You just don't get it, do you? The point is that it is trivially possible to secure your computer against installing trojans by not running as administrator but an uprivileged guest account. On the other hand it is PROVABLY IMPOSSIBLE to secure against your own OS. Period.

Re:Funny (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821700)

Please don't ever say that goatse is harmless again. Your little experiment would have been much funnier (and less traumatising) if you'd used a pic like this.

But would it result in people fired and policies changed? Very unlikely. Sometime to make a strong statement you need to use strong content - this the freedom of speech.

Re:Knoppix is really good (1)

Order of the Penguin (864071) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821711)

If it runs into some issues, I can scratch that laptop off my list

That probably doesn't test features like Intel's SpeedStep, or energy saving features like turning off the display, spinning down harddisks, et cetera.

It also doesn't pick up problems like Dell laptops which get way too hot [josesandoval.com] which usually show up after using the laptop for a length of time.

Re:Knoppix is really good (3, Informative)

Tomcat666 (210775) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821778)

My current laptop (HP/Compaq NX9030) doesn't run any kernel of the current Knoppix version well - driver modprobing crashes, one of them gets the laptop to just hang, the other one won't start X automatically and most stuff doesn't seem to work right. I haven't tried out the many boot options, but that also implies that it doesn't work that well.

However, the main OS on that laptop is Ubuntu Warty. I've never had a single problem concerning the hardware, everything works like a charm since the installation, the current Hoary LiveCD runs perfectly.

I agree to using Knoppix to test a laptop at the store, because if it works well it'll be a great Linux machine - but you might miss out on a few deals.

I guess the conclusion is: Try the LiveCD of the distro you want to install. If you want to install Ubuntu later, don't try Knoppix on the machine, it might make a difference.

but the real question is... (2, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821433)

... if they wrote a virus for KDE, would they call it "The Klap?"

Re:but the real question is... (5, Funny)

qewl (671495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821457)

... if they wrote a virus for KDE, would they call it "The Klap?"

Or alternatively Gnomorrea?


... FluxPox maybe?

Called the Klap???? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821823)

Not if it is a virus.

Might just be me.. (-1)

HeliumHigh (773838) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821441)

but I can't see the dl links! NO LINKS! I WANT MY KNOPPIX (K)NOW! Torrent link? I'm SERIOUS! This sounds GREAT! Pls? I have mod points! I'll mod the childposter who has a dl link up? How bout it? (No goatse mirrors either.)

Mod this offtopic, but... (0, Offtopic)

Ziwcam (766621) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821450)

You're aware you can't give mod points in a forum you've posted in, right?

Re:Might just be me.. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821466)

versions up to 3.7 are here [knopper.net] , but the 3.8 isn't available yet.

Reiser4? (1)

d1v1d3byz3r0 (758848) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821448)

Any word on when Knoppix will support this lovely fs natively?

Knoppix has come full circle (5, Insightful)

Gopal.V (532678) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821465)

Back when knoppix came out - it was a curiousity. Mainly because most systems needed hours of configurations to get it working "the way I want it". Small things like hooking up a "fetchmail" before "postfix flush" or putting both into the if-up scripts. Morphix was the first step towards that (eg if you want to browse securely from a cyber-cafe - without any keyloggers peeking).

Now with lots of machines with 512 Mb and greater RAM, a LiveCD doesn't sound that bad. This unionfs thing clinches it - but the catch is still that if you change your machine, all this is lost. All that said, LiveCDs are here to stay (I think LiveDVDs might be just around the corner ..)

Re:Knoppix has come full circle (4, Informative)

rokzy (687636) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821496)

LiveDVDs are here, at least from SUSE

Re:Knoppix has come full circle (3, Interesting)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821497)

There have been several Knoppix DVDs already, special versions of 3.5 and 3.6 at least, although they were only given away at various tech shows in the past. Now that they're using BitTorrent to distribute as well as regular mirrors, I don't see any reason they don't have wider distribution of the DVD version. Perhaps ~2 gigs of software is enough and they don't want to fragment development between the CD and DVD version, I wouldn't say that DVD burners are commonplace just yet.

Re:Knoppix has come full circle (1)

emanuelez (563534) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821502)

Knoppix already has some more or less famous LiveDVD versions! Time to have LaTeX back on Knoppix! :D

Just my two (€)cents

Live DVD (3, Informative)

HogynCymraeg (624823) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821618)

The concept of LiveDVD has already been done: Suse LiveDVD [novell.com] This is probably not the first.

Re:Knoppix has come full circle (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821779)

You know that a LiveCD won't stop hardware keyloggers, of course...

Re:Knoppix has come full circle (1)

bombshelter13 (786671) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821838)

Most hardware keyloggers can be easily disabled by reaching behind the case and unplugging the damn thing. Yes, there are some that reside within the casing of the keyboard, but if you've got people who're that desperate for your personal information after you, you probably have bigger problems to worry about.

Plan 9 has had this feature for a long time (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821468)

Plan 9 from Lucent, the would-be successor to UNIX, has been built to support this sort of thing from the ground up.

It's a shame that novel OS's like Plan 9 are largely ignored, only for some of their features to be introduced later into mainstream OS's as "new" ideas.

Re:Plan 9 has had this feature for a long time (2, Insightful)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821527)

Would you prefer to see these good ideas merely ignored also?

Re:Plan 9 has had this feature for a long time (4, Informative)

idlake (850372) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821581)

Plan 9 has a lot of good ideas in it, and I hope that many more of them make it into Linux.

However, unionfs did not originate with Plan 9--other UNIX systems have had it, too. I don't think it even came from Bell Labs.

It's a shame that novel OS's like Plan 9 are largely ignored, only for some of their features to be introduced later into mainstream OS's as "new" ideas.

Plan 9 was/is a research system; that's it's function in life. As long as the developers of other systems don't falsely claim that they invented it, and as long as they reference the inventors in publications, it's OK. Some large computer manufacturers are not quite honest about this sort of thing, though, and claim that they are constantly "innovating" when in reality, they are just copying.

Re:Plan 9 has had this feature for a long time (1)

c0l0 (826165) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821867)

The problem with Plan 9 FOR ME has been a specific term in its licence I'm somewhat unable to find in there today... However, it went something like this:

"I will not be using Plan 9 in the creation of weapons of mass destruction to be used by any country other than the US."

I know there are plenty of those weapons existant in the USA and in far too many other countries in the world, but it's just ridiculous to lock out all nations from developing new, maybe even more powerful ones, and not including the United States into this as well, as they imo proved to me the most creative ones in that matter.

It'd be perfectly pleasant for me if it were just generally prohibited to involve Plan9-powered machines in endeavours to get billions killed, but this way, I'm just not interested at all.

3.6 - 3.7 - 3.8 (1)

MrEcho.net (632313) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821469)

Well I hope this ver doesnt crap out like the 3.6 ver did on my laptop. But the 3.6 ver worked at my school as per the 3.7 doesnt. Weird networking issue.

ahprex twinlicker (0, Troll)

lexiconographolologi (860929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821474)

NMi-1=-aDi[n][Fij[n-1]+Fexti[n-1]]n=1jC[i]
(5:47)

Mod me down d**fu*k*rs! (-1, Offtopic)

Eric S Raymond (234230) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821572)



I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!

As usual there is a pertinent article on Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]

Re:Mod me down d**fu*k*rs! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821866)

"d**fu*k*rs"?

Dude, there's something wrong with your keyword.

Oh, and this is slashdot, you can say "fuck" here.

coLinux and live CDs (4, Interesting)

QuantumG (50515) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821479)

I was talking to Jeff Waugh from Ubuntu the other week (*cough* blatant name dropping *cough*) who suggested that the next Ubuntu Live CD might have coLinux on it. You'll be able to plug the CD into any Windows XP machine and get Ubuntu running in a window (that you can fullscreen if you like). He said he'd prefer not to use the Cygwin X server, so I think he's going to put up a bounty for a frame buffer -> DirectX driver for coLinux.

No need to reboot to demo linux, that could well be sweet.

Re:coLinux and live CDs (2, Interesting)

WetCat (558132) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821568)

Why not run TightVNC session against coLinux running in Windows?
I use it that way and it works very good.

Re:coLinux and live CDs (1)

glenkim (412499) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821570)

I was thinking about this just the other day. But I thought a simpler solution might be to just have a X server running on vnc, and then connect into that. The DirectX would probably be best, but at least this way is easy.

Re:coLinux and live CDs (1)

cduffy (652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821727)

I hope he specifies as part of his bounty criteria that it be performant. Such a thing exists already as a proof-of-concept -- it's just that the update rate is measured in seconds-per-frame.

Knoppix can REALLY impress (5, Interesting)

xiando (770382) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821484)

There is one way of really supremely impressing people using Knoppix some people are not aware of: IF you have a gigabyte of RAM or more then you can actually load the whole Knoppix CD into memory so you can use the CD drive for all other kinds of things... But this has one obvious bi-effect that I have realized impresses so heavily: When programs are started from RAM, they obviously load faster than from a hard drive. Knoppix loaded into memory is the fastest Linux distribution I have seen so far, almost all programs start instantly. So if you have a machine with lots of ram and want to seriously impress: This is the way to do it! This is kind of cheating as no normal Linux system can perform like this, but it is ideal for demonstrating Linux. On a personal note, I would seriously be happy if something like this could be done with a normal distribution: Say if you have 3 GB RAM, then why not load everything into a portion of it at boot and run programs off memory .. even if you have Linux installed on your hard drive? Obviously this is 'waste of RAM', but hey, if you have lots of money and therefore RAM, why not??

Re:Knoppix can REALLY impress (5, Informative)

qewl (671495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821513)

Feather is a great distribution for doing this. It only needs 128 to 256 MB to have everything loaded and still plenty of processing ram. Great for somewhat older computers and has all the hardware recognition of Knoppix 3.6

Re:Knoppix can REALLY impress (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821519)

I'm sure you could create a block device using RAM of say, a gig, or 1.5 gigs (as needed) and then just mount /usr on it and copy your normal /usr into it. On the other hand, if you've got 3 gigs of ram anyways, I don't think anything will ever get pushed out of RAM in normal use (stuff will remain in cache), thus you wouldn't really need to fiddle with the ramdrive at all.

Then again, I don't have 3 gigs of ram to play with, so what do I know, anybody care to donate?

Re:Knoppix can REALLY impress (2, Interesting)

Bert64 (520050) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821661)

I used to do that with the Amiga, you could create a reset resident ramdisk so you could copy your OS into it and reboot from it..

Yes, you are right! (1)

leehwtsohg (618675) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821816)

I remember the Amiga RAM disk that would survive resets. Why does such a thing not exist for Linux? Does the RAM on a PC get erased more on warm reboot or on cold reboot?

Re:Knoppix can REALLY impress (1)

rdc_uk (792215) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821864)

Mmmm, memories of my A1200HD;

20 seconds for a cold boot, 2 seconds for a reboot.
and a 20Mb hard disk :)

Re:Knoppix can REALLY impress (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821667)

If you have more RAM than used disk space, the buffer cache will do this anyway. I tried this when testing the RAID1 on a newly installed server, with only the base system installed. I couldn't get it to load balance between both disks (as RAID1 is supposed to do), and after a while I couldn't get it to read from disk at all.

After wondering about this, I checked df and top. Used disk space: 192 MB. Buffer cache: 192 MB.

10K cheetahs in RAID1 may be fast, but that setup beat anything.

Re:Knoppix can REALLY impress (4, Interesting)

ahfoo (223186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821723)

Well, Gigs of RAM isn't really all that cheap, so I think using Damn Small Linux to do the same thing is more impressive for most people because you can use what is available in the here and now. You can easily load DSL into RAM with 256Megs and sometimes it works with 128Megs, but you won't be able to add many other packages once you get it online.
However, and I'm currently typing on just such a system, it's not as fast as you'd hope. The reason is that LiveCDs use compression on the filesystems so you have that overhead preventing things from being as fast as it could be. But certainly as big RAM goes mainstream there is no doubt in my mind that the idea of running the whole system from RAM is inevitable. Like I say, I'm already there albeit using a compressed filesystem.
As for this unionfs thing. Is that completely unrelated to klik? That's a pretty cool development on Knoppix that has come a long way in a very short time. You can already install most Debian packages on Knopppix without a hard drive install using Klik. And even better, you can save the packages to hard drive or removeable media. So, you don't lose them at all when you change to another machine.
This totally rocks. I'm not sure if it's related to the unionfs thing, but it certainly deserves mention because it is hot shit.

Are they going down the 'desktop fluff' path? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821500)

I'm looking for a linux distribution which shows the technical boot process (unlike gnoppix and ubuntu) and switches to graphical mode only once, when it starts X (unlike fedora core).

I'm not scared by the technical stuff, and I want my OS to appear efficient and unbloated. And I claim that it's even good for Joe Luser. If he sees "Fujitsu 24 GB drive" everytime the computer boots up, he might actually learn (gasp) some specs about his computer, unlike a Windows boot process.

Which distro should I encourage with my humble use?

Re:Are they going down the 'desktop fluff' path? (2, Informative)

d1v1d3byz3r0 (758848) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821523)

Gentoo [gentoo.org] . You can configure to your humble heart's content.

Re:Are they going down the 'desktop fluff' path? (2, Informative)

TractorBarry (788340) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821575)

Hear hear.

Try Slackware. You'll love it. And by default you'll have to type "startx" to get any sort of GUI action going on.

My luck... (4, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821504)

I have finished downloading Knoppix 3.6 with my modem yesterday...

Re:My luck... (1)

qewl (671495) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821561)

Hey, if you live nearby, I can carrier pigeon [com.com] it to you ;-)

Re:My luck... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821607)

This is not funny. Every time I connected with the internet since Knoppix 3.6 was announced on Slashdot, I would run "wget --continue iso-mirror-url" and keep it running for some time before I would disconnect, and next time wget would download from the point where it interrupted last time. I finished yesterday and was very happy wven though it costed me a fortune with 33k6 modem @ 6.85 euro/hour. Today I connected with that Knoppix to test it, went to Slashdot, and saw this story... *sigh*

Re:My luck... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821659)

Find someone with a fat internet pipe, and have them download and burn the cd for you.

Then have them mail or bring it to you.

If you're in western europe, we can arrange something ;)

Re:My luck... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821753)

Find someone with a fat internet pipe, and have them download and burn the cd for you.

Then have them mail or bring it to you.

If you're in western europe, we can arrange something ;)


I am! Do you have a "fat pipe"? Will you "bring it to me"? We could definitely "arrange something" - oh yeah baby! I'm in! Please post your contact and I'm on my way, thx!

confederatefs (5, Funny)

dotslashdot (694478) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821514)

Is there a confederatefs located at the bottom of this stack that uses ioslaves to pick fields from a database?

No, but.... (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821814)

there is a loser program that is available.

*nag nag* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821525)

*BSD has been having unionfs for years, so I really don't see what the fuss is about.

Re:*nag nag* (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821703)

*BSD barely got a usable livecd at all.

Writing to NTFS... (4, Interesting)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821560)

As the summary hints at writing to NTFS, will this version of Knoppix use Captive NTFS [jankratochvil.net] in some manner, or is it just going to write to a loopback file to get around the problems with using the native Linux driver for writing to NTFS?

Re:Writing to NTFS... (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821687)

google translation tools indicated the ntfs support mentioned in the article is the standard limited write support currently available in the 2.6.x kernel series: you can write to existing files on NTFS as long as you don't change the length of the file.

-brendan

Re:Writing to NTFS... (2, Informative)

clsc (730336) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821699)

... a loopback file methinks. At least TFA states that you have to create an empty file of the desired size in your Windows partition first. It also states that there's a tool that does this for you, so you don't have to boot Windows first.

Another day... (1)

stuffisgood (666330) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821585)

another livecd....Now what am I supposed to do with the ten Ubuntu two-disc sets I got in the mail today.

Re:Another day... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821715)

I have 200...pass it along to strangers at the corner of 19th and Holloway [google.com] .

Now we need simple online storage - GMail FS anybo (3, Interesting)

OlivierB (709839) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821597)

The one last thing that could even more favorise live CD adoptions could be online settings and file storage.
Sure you can carry around a USB key and store your settings there. But imagine being able to boot a machine anywhere and beinga ble to retrieve your field from something ala Yahoo briefcase.

Solutions exist out there; think GMailFS
If they would include this on the KNOPPIX CD with automount and all..
I am drooling just thinking about the possibilities!

No, go kio_fuse instead! (4, Interesting)

headLITE (171240) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821651)

Actually, they should include kio_fuse. It's a fuse module enabling the kernel to mount any KDE kio_slave. This combined with the fish:// or webdavs:// kio_slaves...

You can get 1 GB of webdav accessible space at GMX.net for free if you know enough German to get around the freemail signup.

Like slax? (1)

m50d (797211) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821614)

Is this unionfs like the ovlfs that has been used in SLAX for ages? And if so why not just port ovlfs to kernel 2.6?

UnionFS (1)

HogynCymraeg (624823) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821627)

Sounds a little similar to intermezzo

Not On BitTorrent yet... (3, Informative)

dohboy (449807) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821721)

...but here's where to grab it once it is released:

http://torrent.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ [uni-kl.de]

F4Yp troll (-1, Troll)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821725)

at this point moronic, dileetante Mod points and

disk encryption bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821770)

Has the disk encryption bug finally been fixed? I reported it last spring, but the 3.7 releases never correctly handled loop-aes multi-key keyfiles. Use KANOTIX instead.

Re:disk encryption bug (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11821836)

Specifically the problem is this: mount, losetup and swapon in KNOPPIX only use ONE encryption key of the 64 which are stored in loop-aes keyfiles. A serious vulnerability which causes a false sense of security.

Grammar, please. (0, Offtopic)

The Fanta Menace (607612) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821789)

"change most anything"?

Is slashdot reaching such depths that submitters can't even form sentences correctly?

That should be "change almost anything", thankyou.

Yeah, yeah, I know, offtopic -1.

Was ist das Nurnstuck git und Slotermayer? (1)

otis wildflower (4889) | more than 9 years ago | (#11821806)

(English xlation [google.com] ;)
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