Build Your Own TV Without Broadcast Flags 283
doom writes "An account of an event sponsored by the EFF, a "roll your own television" build-in. The San Francisco Bay Guardian has coverage in an article entitled Build Your TV!". From the article: "According to the FCC, the flag is going to ease the nation's transition from today's analog televisions to tomorrow's high-definition televisions. What exactly does it mean for a government agency to "ease" the transition from one kind of TV signal to another? In this case, it seems to mean making the entertainment industry feel very warm and fuzzy inside." The EFF's efforts against the flag have been covered before on Slashdot.
Bush won't let this happen (Score:5, Funny)
This is going no where as long as Republicans are leading this great nation.
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:4, Insightful)
Indeed, and about BIGGER corporations...
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:5, Informative)
Bush is a great president and he will not let this broadcast flag happen under his watch. I know liberal /. probably doesn't get this, but the Republicans are all about SMALLER gov't, people.
You've got to be joking [mediamatters.org]. (At least, I hope you're being sarcastic) Check the second chart down. Bush has increased nondefense discretionary spending faster than Clinton by a large margin, and that's *with* a Republican dominated congress. Of course, that's not even including the *huge* growth in defense and homeland security related spending, most of it stuffed into little-reviewed supplemental appropriation bills. ("Yeah, we need another $90 billion for Iraq. Don't count it against the deficit figures, please.") Just look at the absurd Medicare prescription drug coverage bill- any true conservative would have run from this screaming.
The Republicans today are all about huge, intrusive government. They want to make sure you're a good little consumer, worship the proper god and avoid the gay. Oh yeah, and don't worry about running up the deficit to 3rd world levels- we'll never have to pay that back...
Just sign me "Disgusted ex-Republican".
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:5, Funny)
If he runs the country out of money we'll have no choice but to shrink the government.
He's a tricky one that Bush.
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:2)
Re:Bush won't let this happen (Score:2)
Well, he's made government _seem_, if not smaller, at least no larger -- until we have to give whatever part of the country tax-paying workers own to Japan, China, Saudia Arabia and Europe to pay off the debt.
Considering people's attention spans, it's a pretty sweet way to steal.
surely this is unnecessary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Hence rolling your own tv would be entirely redundant?
Re:surely this is unnecessary? (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:surely this is unnecessary? (Score:2, Insightful)
I wonder if when you become a congressperson (gotta be PC
thankfully here in the UK I can't see something like this happening (at least in the near future).
Individual European Union member states are not allowed to mandate receiver requirements and any copy protection system
assume the position? (Score:2)
it's the average citizen that would do well to have a large supply of petroleum jelly on hand..
Re:surely this is unnecessary? (Score:2)
"Congresswhore" is gender-neutral and far more accurate. No need to insult actual people.
Re:surely this is unnecessary? (Score:5, Interesting)
What happened was that the lawyer challenging the FCC went before the panel of judges, and they asked questions attacking his position. Then his time was up, and the FCC lawyer went before the panel, and the judges askwed questions attacking the FCC's position.
Judges do this all the time. It forces the lawyer in front of them to respond to questions he wishes no one was asking. If he has a good argument, he can provide good answers to the hard questions. It's just a technique to elicit information. It doesn't indicate anything about the judge's actual position.
Plus the court won't issue their ruling on the matter for several months still.
So the big hubbub was over nothing.
What exactly does it mean... (Score:5, Insightful)
um, what? (Score:2, Informative)
p.s. The constitution does not grant rights to individuals. Instead it limits the rights of the government.
Re:um, what? (Score:2)
Re:um, what? (Score:2)
Re:um, what? (Score:4, Informative)
Simply put, the Ninth says, "Even if we didn't mention them, you still have all your rights". The Tenth says, "If we didn't talk about it here, the Feds have no power to do it."
Re:um, what? (Score:4, Informative)
In the United States we have a United States Supreme Court. That Court interprets the Constitution and statutes. It has interpreted Article. I Section. 8. Clause 8 to have limits on monoplies associated with IP. The limits are called "fair use."
These rights were enacted by Congress in TITLE 17, CHAPTER 1, 107 of the US code.
Based on the Courts' interpretation of both the Constitution and the code, they held in the case of Universal v Sony that citizens in the US have a fair use right to record shows.
Does that answer your question?
Re:um, what? (Score:2)
Re:um, what? (Score:4, Informative)
The right you're looking for is the right of free speech; it's the same right that the creators of the show rely upon to record it the first time, even before broadcast.
Re:um, what? (Score:3, Insightful)
You might get sued by the RIAA for downloading songs off P2P. You might use fair use as a defense. However, if the Supreme Court ever upheld your defense, it would too become a right.
Re:What exactly does it mean... (Score:2)
Re:What exactly does it mean... (Score:2)
There are:
Constitutional Rights
Legal Rights
Moral Rights
Human Rights
Animal Rights
Maid-Rites
So if someone says they have a "right to download music for free", they may be completely correct.
Wha? (Score:5, Informative)
Like here
Or Here
So why are we worried?
Wang33
Because they won't give up. (Score:5, Insightful)
In Europe, even after near-unanamous votes against software patents, they are still about to become reality.
The court merely ruled that the FCC did not have the implicit authority to order the flag. All that is needed is a lay giving the FCC the explicit authority. That kind of law is easy to purchase.
Most people don't understand what the court said (Score:2, Insightful)
"But it was unclear whether the judges would strike down the FCC's 2003 rule, since doubts were also raised about whether the American Library Association and other opponents had legal standing to challenge the rule in court."
The judges may rule that these groups don't have legal standing to bring the suit, so it will take consumers to sue and most likely that won't be able to happ
Re:Wha? (Score:2, Funny)
Because the EFF wants you to be worried.
The more worried you are, the more likely you are to donate to them.
Re:Wha? (Score:2)
The FCC was told that it didn't have the right/mandate to implement the broadcast flag, BUT they didn't repeal/retract the actual broadcast flag implementation... yet (wishful thinking)
Ironically, the judges are trying to decide if the EFF/library associations/etc have "right" to sue in the first place on behalf of consumers. (I know, wtf...)
So the FCC could be in the wrong, yet the earlier findings be moot on some bizarre
Kit TVs (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Kit TVs (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Kit TVs (Score:2)
Re:Kit TVs (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Kit TVs (Score:2)
U.S. laws do not apply outside of the U.S. Asian or European manufacturers could manufacture and distribute such cards outside of the U.S. I can imagine a gray market quickly developing for importing them.
I can also imagine the U.S. sending local officials to shut down these manufacturers (think DVD Jon.)
Re:Kit TVs (Score:3, Informative)
J.
Re:Kit TVs (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Kit TVs (Score:2)
Yup...like the old 'kits' you could make a switchblade or stilleto (sp?) with....just parts that were legal to sell, but, the end product could be illegal in your area if you put it together.
Mass system integration on chip (Score:4, Interesting)
Unless you have access to xray machine, the ability to open a chip and identify and inspect traces, and just generally reverse engineer the chipset, and then reprogram it, it is a sealed component and will be very difficult to circumvent.
Not saying it couldn't be done, but a frontal assault would be extremely difficult, so as always, a backdoor located would be the approach.
But they know that.
We've seen this before... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:We've seen this before... (Score:5, Informative)
Re:We've seen this before... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm not so sure about that. It's not like you have to decrypt something. All you have to do is write a disk copier that either ignores both bits or duplicates both bits. The DMCA doesn't force you to write software that affirms copy-protection technology, just software that doesn't go out of its way to circumvent copy-protection technology. (IANAL)
Courts (Score:4, Interesting)
Seriously though, I predict broadcastless recievers will become as common as regionless DVD players, and that it'd be another enormous flop.
Re:Courts (Score:3, Informative)
But, before that happens, the Court opinion is meaningless. All the Court said was that the FCC might not have authority from Congress. Thus, all Congress has to do is to give its authority. Even with Congress, that could take less than a month.
Re:Courts (Score:5, Insightful)
What major backlash? There aren't enough people w/HDTV yet (nevermind HDTV+recorders) that the broadcast flag would matter.
People will get their HDTV+recorders and say, "oh, we can't copy that, it makes sense, there's no such thing as timeshifting and fair use!"
They were smart about the flag... They did it before HDTV became entrenched. That way there would be no backlash because no one would know any different.
Re:Courts (Score:4, Insightful)
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Masked-Eng
And why do you think people will think "it makes sense" they can no longer record. For decades we've been able to record shows, and suddenly we won't be able to, why would we suddenly accept that. THAT makes no sense.
Re:Courts (Score:2)
I hate to pick at nits, but given that the TV screen is an analog output, I get the feeling that will probably not happen.
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:4, Funny)
I'm not gonna to take it anymore. I'm gonna toss the damned boob tube out the window.
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
I saw that nice bumper sticker "Shoot your TV". After some thought, I realized that this was meant entirely seriously.
I do not have a TV (never had, never will), and I keep hearing people say "Yes, but I only watch nature documentaries and the news...".
Chaps, the TV is like heroin. You get drawn into it. You can't help it. It's like a TV in a bar. Even if you hate it, your eyes find it again and again.
Get rid of it.
You want to see a movie? Get yourself a nice big TFT (they're getting really cheap),
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:3, Insightful)
I have a TV but have nothing in the form of an aerial or lead in my flat, so i don't even get a slight temptation to watch it. the result? Sometimes i can be bored, but instead of watching mindless tv, i sit and read and/or educate myself about something. Not bad really.
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:2)
You certainly have a valid point, but one wonders why you would even click through to a discussion on using TV equipment if you have no TV. Just pure flamebait?
People with no TVs always seem to feel the need to proclaim it from the rooftops, like they are somehow morally superior to people with TVs. And since you have never had a TV, what is your basis for recommending people with TVs get rid of them? You have only experienced not having a TV, what makes you
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:2)
And, having grown up beyond the reach of TVs, I can see much more clearly how deeply it has reached into people. These people, being in it, can't see see it as well. Couple this with my vast intellect, my amazing reasoning powers and my astonishingly big mouth and, yes, I'm *am* an expert on it
And I follow these discussions to see how people react to limitations, DRMs, copyrights, trademarks, patents and similar im
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:2)
Because the same people who clamor for TV brodcast flags today might clamor for mandatory TCPA in computers tomorrow. Which I would really dislike, even if I don't care much about TV. So I'd rather stay informed and, when necessary, support organizations like the FFII
http://ffii.org/ [ffii.org]
who try to prevent such abominations.
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:2)
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:2)
You don't have a TV. A TV is a video display with an incoming data line to a certain source.
You, instead, merely have a video display and yes, I'm envious
Re:I'm not going to take it anymore (Score:2)
The heroin is when you sit down in the evening after work and watch whatever random stuff on television that happens to be on. Your brain atrophies. The television takes away all of your needs to be creative and make choices beyond which channel to watch.
I have a 65" HDTV. I love it. But I still only watch it, on average, an hour a day.
There *are* lots of good shows out there, entertaini
Any Canadians know... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Any Canadians know... (Score:2, Insightful)
1)Manufacture non-BF ready TVs in
2)Open a store at the border
3)...
4)profit!
Re:Any Canadians know... (Score:2, Insightful)
but if you really want one(and yes I know the joke) - then 3) open online store
Anyone know if the US law would cover a small, indipendent, Canadian company that has no US presence, shipping un-flagged equipment into the US?
I'm sure we could find room for people like the guy in the article who makes cards for hdtv tuning that currently lives in the states.
Besides, I don't have the money or the channel list to warrant a HDTV purchase right now, but I will want it in the fut
Re:Any Canadians know... (Score:2)
who are they pandering to? (Score:5, Insightful)
Funny the only thing the broadcast flag is meant to ease is the minds of the media fatcats.
Sarah (Score:5, Funny)
Err... what's wrong with this picture? Women don't look up from tables covered with half-built computers... do they?!
With reference to... (Score:2)
Mod Chips (Score:4, Interesting)
Ease the transition? (Score:2)
How can the FCC beleive that a technology designed only to prevent useability will be a benefit to end users in any way?
Re:Ease the transition? (Score:2)
With most networks in most markets already broadcasting digitally in HDTV, how can they say that the broadcast flag is going to help anything? They only part of the transition left is to turn off the old transmitters.
Re:Ease the transition? (Score:2, Insightful)
But the theory goes that content providers and broadcasters will make the switch to HD faster if they have more control over how their content is to be used by the viewer.
One of the big problems in rolling out HD has been the slowness of broadcasters to actually make the switch. I guess the FCC believes that the broadcasters will make the switch faster if they have an incentive to do so.
Re:Ease the transition? (Score:2)
That's the "theory". Makes perfect sense if you can't see past the pile of money in front of you.
Re:Ease the transition? (Score:3, Funny)
How can the FCC beleive that a technology designed only to prevent useability will be a benefit to end users in any way?
You don't understand. The broadcast flag eases transition to HDTV by getting plenty of HDTV sets out into the marketplace! Indeed, as other posters have pointed out, HDTV sets manufactured before the deadline are under no obligation to honor the broadcast flag. So how is the smart consumer gonna
Let them have their broadcast flag (Score:2, Insightful)
Then a short time afterwards it was bypassed and everyone lived happily ever after.
That's exactly what will happen with the broadcast flag. Let them have it. If the entertainment industry thinks this will achieve their objectives then let them have their illusions - it won't make a damned bit of difference at the end of the day.
This isn't about HDTV (Score:5, Insightful)
The way broadcast flags are mentioned its all about stopping HDTV programing from getting on the net. It makes it sound like we'll still be able to record our analog shows.
However, analog outputs will be soon be illegal on all television devices. Thus, this is about locking down ALL content.
http://www.tvtechnology.com/features/Masked-Eng
Re:This isn't about HDTV (Score:3, Insightful)
That's going to make TV awfully hard to watch...
OK, I know what you meant, but seriously, ultimately people have to watch it or listen to it, so the analog hole can never really be closed, only made more inconvenient.
Eventually, congress will require that loud noises and bright flashing lights happen at the end of all copyright-protected content, so that the people who just watched
Re:This isn't about HDTV (Score:2)
This whole broadcast flag makes no sense. It's like closing the barn door after the horses leave. There's TONS of pre-flag HDTV capture equipment out there.
-Z
The analog hole is inconvenient (Score:2)
I'm sure somebody would eventually come up with a hack around it, like those VCR+ remote controls that you left poin
Upcoming DIY kit seminars: (Score:3, Funny)
Electroshock machine
Lobotomy apparatus
Automated Librium making apparatus
Hell, if you want to make sure that your brain never gets to do anything without some sort of institutionalized coercion, why stop at making a TV?
I hear you cry: "TV is good for me, and you are just a humorless crank for criticizing it!"
To which I reply: Alcohol and Heroin addicts say much the same thing about their brain-restraints of choice.
If the thought of someone criticizing your TV watching makes you angry or defensive, you need to get help.
"build?" (Score:2)
Dan East
A suggestion: (Score:4, Insightful)
Of course, they canceled one the exceptions ( farscape ), further reinforcing my decision.
That's the only way things will change: Vote with your cash, or in this case, your unwillingness to deal with their crap. You may think you *need* your TV, but you don't.
VDR: Mature code and hardware to build on (Score:3, Informative)
Grape-juice bricks... (Score:3, Interesting)
During Prohibition, Californian vineyards openly marketed bricks of compressed, dried Zinfandel grapes, together with a strongly worded warning to the consumer explaining that they should not any circumstances mix the grapes to five gallons of water, five pounds of sugar, and yeast.
If the **AA's can create a climate of fear and create the impression that legitimate fair use is illegal, they win--even if devices that circumvent the broadcast flag become as available as marijuana.
I wonder (Score:4, Interesting)
I only hope this idea doesn't catch.
Re:I wonder (Score:2)
Why can't you rewind Disney trailers at the beginning of some kid's movies? You can skip them, but not rewind. Does that make sense?
How many other stupid situations will we end up in if broadcasters get to control how you use your TV?
Tuner, not the TV- Broadcast flag misunderstood? (Score:2)
That said-
Grill me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of the Broadcast Flag is that it exists to prevent copyrighted material from being "ripped" to something such as a PC's hard drive.
I have an HDTV, and an HDTiVo. Both obey the broadcast flag and encryption (HDCP) via its digital interface-
Re:Tuner, not the TV- Broadcast flag misunderstood (Score:4, Interesting)
Further, I have a CRT-based HDTV, and when using the DVI input, it has far too much overscan. If I use component output, then I can adjust the overscan, but I can't with DVI, so going digital isn't the best option.
And even further, my TV has only one DVI input, so if I have multiple HD sources, then I have to recable my TV to change sources (like, say, a HDTiVo, satellite receiver, and broadcast ATSC tuner).
Re:Tuner, not the TV- Broadcast flag misunderstood (Score:2)
So who's hurt here and what are we whining about?
People with a limited supply of cash?
Do note the fact that most LCDs on the market do not support HDCP. Nor do they support HDMI..
Bending Unit 22 (Score:5, Funny)
In fact, forget the TV ...
And the blackjack.
Build your own tuner (Score:2)
I'd LOVE to get one, but I don't know if I'll be able to come up with the money by the time they're illegal, so if I can't, will plans be available to me to build my own?
Of course, the best option would be for the court to tell the FCC to shove the
Bullshit. (Score:2)
I am not a lawyer, but isn't illagality of Ex Post Facto part of the constituition? The point is they are building it before a law (might) go into effect. They can't be persucuted for building something before a law exists, after it's taken into effect.
Re:Bullshit. (Score:3, Informative)
Cause for concern, but not yet time to worry (Score:2)
I built a Myth system last year, so you can be sure that this issue has concerned me greatly. But I am still optimistic that we're going to see the system actually work for a change.
I don't know if the flag was Michael Powell's idea or not, but he was appointed by Clinton. Funny ways of regulating whole industries, as well as coziness with Big Hollywood, are much more Democratic traits than Republican.
Anyway, Powell's out, the broadcast flag has been successfully challenged (at least the first step), an
DMCA Violation? (Score:2)
It may be the right thing to do, but doesn't mean the courts will agree.
Greedy Bastards (Score:3, Insightful)
The FCC wants to get broadcast TV off of it's current portion of the broadcast spectrum so that they can start selling licenses for telecomm use of those same frequencies.
They know that Hollywood will put more effort behind a system that "protects" the digital transmissions so that they don't wind up on the internet. With the backing of the big film studios, the FCC believes that it will be a shorter time until current analog TV is obviated and they can start selling those licenses.
LK
Re:I hope that's all it means (Score:2)
Yeah, but if all the major manufacturers are signed up, you're left with crappy third world hardware or warranty-void gear. whatcha gonna do when it screws up? demand a refund?
Re:I hope that's all it means (Score:3, Insightful)
Since this flag won't exist in 95% of the world (population-wise), do you really think major non-US companies like Sony won't produce any products without this flag?
Our neighbors-to-the-North, if no one else, will provide sufficient demand (and an easy place for us Northern US residents to go to get such products) to guarantee the existance of flagless TVs.
I expect that the rest
Re:I hope that's all it means (Score:5, Insightful)
For example, take the DVD player. The other day I wanted to show something to one of my kids quick as we were on our way out to return the DVD's we had rented. Put in the DVD and the usual junk starts up, so I...
Hit fast foreware : Operation not permitted.
Hit the "Next Chapter" button : Operation not permitted.
We were out of time, my wife was hollering at us to get going...
Hit the Stop button : Operation not permitted.
??? You mean I'm not even allowed to Stop playing, I have to watch it???
Fortunately the MPAA can't yet override the power button on the front of the player.
Yes, I have the hardware and software that would allow me to rip a DVD, strip it of all the crap, and burn a "perfect" copy to a blank DVD-R disk. But I shouldn't have to do that just to enjoy a movie the way I want to.
Re:Maybe it doesn't matter (Score:2)
BTW, Over the Air ATSC is as clear, or clearer than cable. The channel selection isn't as great, however. Most channels don't know how to use multicasts:
"I know, we'll put an animation of a weat
Re:Maybe it doesn't matter (Score:2)
Ah, but you are forgetting about interlaced/non-interlaced i.e. scanlines.
Watching SDTV content on a comparably high rez laptop screen doesn't look very good... (unless you use something like Dscaler or the like to de-interlace it.
*sh
Re:Maybe it doesn't matter (Score:3, Interesting)
Sure you will. Even most portables have a much greater resolution than a standard TV.