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Is Apple The New Microsoft?

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the snap-judgements-for-sale dept.

Microsoft 904

Varg Vikernes writes "Even if you don't count Apple's actions this week as a potential threat to first amendment rights (Apple's crackdown on Web sites that love the company), they do nothing to bolster Apple's public image. In fact the company's success of late has yielded accusations of bullying and potentially unlawful business tactics, along with complaints about the fact that songs purchased from its iTunes music service don't work with music players other than its own. According to Forbes, to some these tactics sound like something Apple's neighbor to the North might employ. They wonder aloud Is Apple the New Microsoft?

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GNAA: GREAT NEGRO ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852400)

The GNAA (Great Negro Association of America) would like to commemorate Black History Month by honoring great Negros in history. We would like to commemorate Malcolm X [wikipedia.org] , an excellent example of the great negro. Malcolm X stood up for what he believed, and so does the ECFA.

About GNAA: The GNAA is slashdot's oldest and most famous mass-troll group. The current ECFA/GNAA combined organization (called "ECFA") is the result of the 2004 merger of the ECFA and the GNAA. The ECFA (Euthanasia for Canis Familiaris Association) serves as sole holder of the GNAA trademark, copyrights, and all other legal ownership. In Q1 2005, ECFA announced that the acronym GNAA now stands for Great Negro Association of America. Note that the ECFA is based solely in the United States. The future of the international GNAA is uncertain, and it will likely cease operations altogether. Please note that the United States ECFA takes memberships from all over the world. The combined organization is committed both to celebrating black history and to the improvement of our society through eliminating overpopulation of animals to improve their lives and the lives of humans.

About ECFA: The ECFA (Euthanasia for Canis Familiaris Association) is an organization committed to improving our society, leaving it better than we found it. We use the Slashdot trolling capabilities of the GNAA to spread our message of improvement.

Do you want to Commemorate great negros [wikipedia.org] ?
Are you sick of overpopulation of household pets [wikipedia.org] ?
Are you willing to take radical measures [aapn.org] to keep these pests at bay?

If you answered YES to any of the above questions, the ECFA(Euthanasia for Canis Familiaris Association)/GNAA is for you!

You can work toward the noble of goal of INCREASING OUR SUPPLY OF O2! OVERPOPULATION of DOGS is RAPANT in this country. Did you know that DOGS turn BENEFICIAL O2 into CO2 simply to gain their energy to bark, drool, and howl? They ACTUALLY BURN OUR OXYGEN SUPPLY WITHOUT PRODUCING ANY BENEFIT!!! One dog easily waste the Oxygen output of ten mature trees!

This country has MANY UNWANTED, ABANDONED DOGS that WE ARE PAYING MONEY TO KEEP ALIVE. We are FEEDING them our food supply while making the homeless STARVE! Are you TIRED of having your TAXES increased? Humane Societies cost our country over $100 million annually. By using a Dog Killing Gadget, a dog can be turned into beneficial food, helping us all. We let children go hungry yet feed our **UNWANTED** dogs like royalty.

We hunt deer when they become overpopulated. Why should dogs be any different? We don't have deer pounds to send 'homeless' deer to. Yet for most people, dogs are personified to the extreme. We advocate treating dogs like the animals they are.

We are also temporarily supporting Great Negros to please our former GNAA members and to keep our distribution channels open. We have been and always will be committed to the eradication of dogs. The takeover was all for the trolling channels, never for the content.

WANT TO SUPPORT ECFA (Euthanasia for Canis Familiaris Association)? Simply participate in our propaganda campaign to exterminate dogs. You can become a member of our slashdot trolling team, our usenet trolling team, or you can be a member of our local campaigning - by simply handing out brocures or posting signs outside humaine socities. If you have MOD POINTS, alternatively you can moderate this post UP to support our cause.

Important Note: The ECFA has recently "connected" with the GNAA to form one ECFA. Stay connected. Please note that since we are moving to a larger demographic (the untold scores of people who deal with dog messes, noises, and annoyances daily), most of the current GNAA content is offline. In fact, we're pulling all of it except the "early post", which is now a ECFA-style "early post". The traditional GNAA "early post" will continue to be posted on all SCO stories, as insisted by upper GNAA management and its core team of fans. The illicit images and language will not be a part of the new combined organiztion. We do not condone any sexual lifestyle or race.

==Brought to you by the GNAA Trolling Group, now a division of ECFA.

They wish... (4, Insightful)

FyRE666 (263011) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852402)

In fact, I personally believe that if Gates and co. hadn't screwed Apple over all those years ago to bring out Windows 1.0, then we'd be in a hell of a lot worse position than we are now. At least Microsoft only have a monopoly on Software. If the 2 Steves had managed to create a monopoly where Apple had total control of the OS AND the hardware, then it would be impossible for anyone else to get a look in. We saw how Apple treated the clone system builders, and BeOS for that matter. Actually, now I think of it, Apple are setting up their own stores here in the UK and driving their formerly faithful resellers out of the market with their well know price fixing strategies (try buying apple hardware at better prices than Apple supply it direct to see what I mean).

I do like (and own) some of Apple's kit, but I'm not one of the blinkered Mac apologists who defend their every action. Apple is not a bunch of nice people; it's a corporation, and frankly I'm not surprised in the slightest at their attempts to monopolise music downloads and attack their own fans' websites. Maybe Wozniak wasn't all about making money, but Jobs and the others left steering the ship certainly are.

Have you noticed that, althought Apple's own operating system owes a lot to the open source movement, and the thousands of developers whose code they use for free, you and I still cannot run iTunes on our Linux desktop to sync an iPod? No money in it for them...

It's time some people took off the rose coloured hippy glasses and realised that Apple is just another wannabe monopolist who've (luckily for us) simply been curtailed by an unfortunate event perpetrated by the current software monopolist.

No iTunes for Linux (5, Insightful)

Beltway Prophet (453247) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852537)


Have you noticed that, althought Apple's own operating system owes a lot to the open source movement, and the thousands of developers whose code they use for free, you and I still cannot run iTunes on our Linux desktop to sync an iPod? No money in it for them...


That's an odd complaint. I don't think Apple is demonstrating a grudge against OSS or Linux in particular, it's just that the market share of Linux on the desktop is tiny (2%). If Linux had 70% of the desktop market, they'd certainly be offering iTunes for X11 and Linux. Moreover, if it were purely a quid-pro-quo arrangement, I'm not sure that Apple would be bound to produce iTunes for Linux - maybe they should provide iTunes for OpenBSD, since they actually use that team's products (OpenSSH, for instance). Just because you get Apache and Samba with Red Hat, and OS X (OS X Server has Samba) also includes them, doesn't make them "part of Linux," after all, though they're clearly important to making Linux useful.

Re:No iTunes for Linux (3, Interesting)

ozric99 (162412) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852581)

I don't think Apple is demonstrating a grudge against OSS or Linux in particular, it's just that the market share of Linux on the desktop is tiny (2%). If Linux had 70% of the desktop market, they'd certainly be offering iTunes for X11 and Linux.

That's exactly what the parent was talking about - there's no market share so there's no money in it for them (increased ipod/itunes sales).

Re:No iTunes for Linux (5, Insightful)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852593)

By that logic they shouldn't produce iTunes for the Mac either, as it has such a tiny market share.

Re:They wish... (4, Interesting)

Life2Short (593815) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852552)

I see your point but when I think of a world not dominated by Microsoft, I don't think of a world dominated by Apple either. Instead I wonder what it would be like if all of those manufacturers from the 80s had made it into the 21st century. What sort of development, competition, changes, might have happened in a world where a Sanyo Silver Fox, Epson, Atari, Amiga, etc., etc., were all viable choices? Perhaps that would have fragmented the market too much, or perhaps we would have seen some real innovation over the past 20 years.

Re:They wish... (3, Interesting)

Fred_A (10934) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852569)

Apple's OS owes a lot to open source software yet there's no iTunes software for Linux. A hell of a lot of DVD players actually run Linux yet you still can't get proper DVD playing software for Linux (legally, I know about libcss).

So what ? If you're that desperate to use iTunes, unlock the files with the "illegal" library just like you unlock your DVDs. And if you don't run Linux, there's probably a Windows or MacOS or Atari or whatever version floating around.

As for me I'm not even through ripping my CDs so I don't really have a use for an online service, especially not one from Apple. I looked at the players on the market, got an iRiver and never looked back anyway.

Re:They wish... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852572)

yup, i agree, thats why i just build my own i686 boxen and install Linux...

no msft, no apple...

Re:They wish... (2, Interesting)

aldoman (670791) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852599)

Not to mention that Apple has absolutely tarnished the chance of decent, out of the box, _free_ font anti-aliasing on Linux/any alternative OS. They hold the patent for TrueType font hinting, which is absolutely needed for good looking fonts.

Sadly, you will get Apple apolgists that think Apple is more than a company that 'plunders' OSS so they can shortcut some of their other commercial competitors.

No, just normal operating procedure (3, Insightful)

nurb432 (527695) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852404)

In this day and age, everyone does business this way.

No need to single out Apple for finally joining the crowd in order to stay afloat.

Re:No, just normal operating procedure (2, Insightful)

millwall (622730) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852467)

In this day and age, everyone does business this way.

Not entirely true. I know many local companies and larger corporations that I think do a far better job to maintain common sense and moral while staying in business.

Re:No, just normal operating procedure (2, Insightful)

Jugalator (259273) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852507)

"Everyone"?

Yes, there are these kind of news now and then of companies trying to stifle competition, but why aren't we facing a jungle of lawsuits, if what you're saying is true? Did Intel recently bully and make use of unlawful tactics? AMD? Google? Yahoo? ATI?

Re:No, just normal operating procedure (2, Interesting)

bperkins (12056) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852587)

No need to single out Apple for finally joining the crowd in order to stay afloat.

Yes need to single out Apple for finally joining the crowd in order to stay afloat.

I think it's a relavant topic of discussion whether Apple owes its success to superior products, or cut-throat business practices.

If I'm considering buying Apple products because their cool now, will I regret it down the road when I realize they're screwing me?

They're a corporation (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852596)

There is some reason to believe that a corporation, by its nature, will react in a certain way. The link below points to a movie "The Corporation" that points out that corporations tend to be not just amoral but actually psychopathic. It doesn't matter what kind of nice people run the corporation, corporate behaviour is the way it is just because of the nature of the beast. Whether Steve Jobs is/was a wonderful guy has nothing to do with it. I find the movie's argument persuasive. Basically, if you apply a standard psychological assessment to a corporation, it turns up as a psychopath.

www.thecorporation.tv

Re:No, just normal operating procedure (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852602)

First of all it is not common business practice and secondly, even if it were this is no reason to ignore it.

No way (2, Insightful)

el cisne (135112) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852408)

They have a LONG way to go to becoming Microsoft. Some of the things done may look, sound, be the same, but c'mon -- like Apple's market pressure is ANYthing like that of Microsoft's. Please.

Re:No way (2)

0x461FAB0BD7D2 (812236) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852460)

The reason Apple's market pressure/share is nothing like Microsoft's is simply because Microsoft started out doing this a lot earlier.

This does not mean that Apple is not becoming like Microsoft.

Re:No way (1)

Worminater (600129) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852601)

" The reason Apple's market pressure/share is nothing like Microsoft's is simply because Microsoft started out doing this a lot earlier." alright, why was apple squeezed out of the market? They were WORSE then microsoft and attempted to squeeze all hardware and software off of their platform that wasnt first party. ah how perspective view changes over years

Re:No way (1)

DarkMantle (784415) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852476)

TFA is not about presence. It's about business practices. And the control they are trying to gain over the Online music biz.

No (0, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852411)

No, they need some BSODs.

well at least their products don't suck! (-1, Flamebait)

wisebabo (638845) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852414)

nuff' said

Re:well at least their products don't suck! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852463)

I would say that their products do suck, and are overpriced.

Re:well at least their products don't suck! (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852559)

That's just the iVac.

No (-1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852416)

They don't have Bill.

Yikes (1, Insightful)

tehdely (690619) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852417)

Websites that spread trade secrets and leak important details about upcoming products (including ship dates, manufacturing locations, key design details) months before they're announced are hardly websites that "love the company".

What sort of fucking moron writes something that preposterous.

A slashdot editor, of course.

Re:Yikes (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852479)

Maybe you didn't notice, but Slashdot didn't write this.

You're right (2, Insightful)

NaCh0 (6124) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852489)

True Apple Inc. love would be swallowing every new product hook, line, and sinker.

You'll take what Apple gives you and be happy.

Market share (2, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852418)

All they need now is crushing market share...

Not necessarily (2, Insightful)

catdevnull (531283) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852419)

They way all corporations do their business is by flexing their muscle. When a company starts to measure its success by how much their quarterly results benefit their investors, then they become myopic bullies and innovation stops. MS is far ahead there.

Witness the FUD (5, Insightful)

greg_barton (5551) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852421)

This is pure FUD, and guess what? It's aimed at you, the slashdot reader.

From the article:

It's ironic that a company as innovative as Apple Computer could have such a regressive view of the changing world of American media.

Apple's view may seem regressive to the average slashdot reader, but to the rest of the world, it's way ahead.

This is a baldfaced attempt to confuse two sources of outrage for the average geek: threats to free speech and threats from Microsoft. It's a common rhetorical and political tactic meant to funnel away attention from the true threat.

Don't be fooled. Microsoft is the new Microsoft, and the old Microsoft.

From the article:
Problem is, the definition of journalism is rapidly changing. "Traditional" media like print newspapers, broadcast news and weekly magazines years ago began being augmented and in some cases supplanted by "new" media on the Web.

The protection of sources is still a source of contention, even among the "traditional" media. Refer to the Valerie Plame case (another classic "divert the opposition" case) for contention about protection of sources in the traditional media. Protection of sources, even for the major media, is not a set part of the First Amendment.

Re:Witness the FUD (0)

MrLint (519792) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852488)

Not to mention that unless you are totally clueless you don't go and buy from itms not knowing they play on your ipod. I dont think I know anyone who uses itunes who doesnt own a mac or an ipod. Windows users who use itunes do so of their own volition, considering windows comes with WMP. If you bought an ipod, then you end up using itunes.

If you dont want to buy from itms, then dont. In fact why even complain about itms only working with an ipod when you can go use napster or real for your WMA based player?

The only reason anyone would complain about this is they either have ipod envy, or they have itms envy.

Re:Witness the FUD (2, Insightful)

Chemical (49694) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852523)

This is pure FUD, and guess what? It's aimed at you, the slashdot reader. Apple's view may seem regressive to the average slashdot reader, but to the rest of the world, it's way ahead.

This isn't some Slashdotter's blog. This isn't even from a technology focused publication. This is Forbes printing this. So obviously this is the view of at least somebody at one of the nations leading business and finance publications.

Re:Witness the FUD (1)

Tethys_was_taken (813654) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852607)

Apple's view may seem regressive to the average slashdot reader, but to the rest of the world, it's way ahead.

This is a baldfaced attempt to confuse two sources of outrage for the average geek: threats to free speech and threats from Microsoft. It's a common rhetorical and political tactic meant to funnel away attention from the true threat.


True, but it doesn't make the points made in the article go away. Apple is, of late, using more muscle and money power to get it's way. Your first part says it directly. The average /.er is more in tune with tech today, and knows that Apple isn't doing too much innovation( at least, not as much as they used to). But Apple is using it's image with regular people as a high-tech company to corner a market and expand.

While that's not illegal, it is different from what geeks expect from Apple. They weren't generally known for stuff like this from what I hear.

But then again, i've never been to interested in Apple, so I could be wrong :/

No. (5, Funny)

torpor (458) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852422)

Microsoft is the New Microsoft. Don't ever forget that, peon hoard!!

(And if anyone else has any "New Microsoft" for sale, won't be long before Microsoft buy that too..)

No. And Hell no. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852464)

For one thing, Apple software doesn't suck.

Re:No. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852576)

I'm waiting for the return of Classic Microsoft. It had better flavor.

why have I seen this before?? (3, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852423)

Bill Gates in a cape with a shroud over his head...

His crackley voice speaks, "Arise Darth Apple"

Steve Jobs sets up, "Yes my Lord."

when you come over to the dark side, all of the evil consumes you.

Welcome Apple, the Evil that is Gates has consumed you.

Next we will find Linus cut in half laying on the floor with RMS shaking his head, "ready not for the battle were you. Dead you now are."

oh yeah, this will be good......

Re:why have I seen this before?? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852485)

Why isn't there a mod category for Excessively Nerdy?

Re:why have I seen this before?? (2, Funny)

jessecurry (820286) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852544)

because every post would get it :)

Well.. (1, Interesting)

dopelogik (862715) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852428)

Even if you don't agree with some of their tactics like iTunes music only playing on an iPod, is that not their right to do so? Not _everything_ in the world has to work with _everthing_ else. This certainly is not a standard outside of the computer world. And besides, how else to catch up with Microsoft who leads in these practices?

Re:Well.. (2, Insightful)

OS24Ever (245667) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852499)

Yeah kinda cracks me up. That's like bitching that I can't buy a chevy alternator for $50 and put it in my $50,000 BMW. No this isn't a 'Apple is the BMW of the computer world post' It's just a general comment that products built by one company aren't guranteed/flat out don't work in a competitors product. Sure maybe the concepts are similar but they won't intermingle.

Neither will the beaters on my Kitchen Aid mixer plug into my Oster mixer, or anything else like that. It always amazes me that when a company gets runaway success by filling a need in a marketplace that when they end up doing really well people start to want to tear them down.

I work for a computer manufacturer, I've got access to roadmaps that go out for years, if I were to 'leak' these to a 'fan site' that does nothing but try and predict what we were doing my company would go on a witch hunt pretty quickly too. There is a thing called competition and competitors out there, even for Apple. Apple's main 'thing' is to develop innovative products. Their competitors goals are to try and find a way to cobble something together that is 'good enough' and a lot cheaper, and watch people flock too it.

Re:Well.. (4, Insightful)

serviscope_minor (664417) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852611)

Yeah kinda cracks me up. That's like bitching that I can't buy a chevy alternator for $50 and put it in my $50,000 BMW.

Not at all. You can buy a $50 Chevy alternator. Of course, it won't fit, so you might have to make some metal brackets, drill new holes and find the right kind of pulley to make it fit on the belt, but you can still do it legally. No one can stop you trying and no one should be able to stop you trying.

With DRMed works, you can not do the software equivalent of the above unless authorized, because of the DMCA (even though you supposedly have fair use rights). Now as it happens, Apple do authorize it by letting you burn on to CD and re rip (which may be a pain), but you can still put your songs on a different player.

Re:Well.. (4, Insightful)

pedantic bore (740196) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852503)

I agree (except for maybe the last sentence).

If the iTunes Music Store was the only download music store, and they used a proprietary format, then that would be one thing. As it is, the apparently barrier to entry in the downloadable music business is so low that music stores are springing up all over the place (the local radio station now has their own music store where you can download the music from their playlists). MP3 players are for sale at half the stores in the mall.

Nobody is forcing you to use anything from Apple; there are viable competitors in every one of their markets. Nobody is paying an "Apple tax" to buy a computer that doesn't have iTunes installed on it...

forcing you to use anything from Apple?

Re:Well.. (4, Informative)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852534)

iTunes Music Store purchases can of course be burnt to CD, at which point they can play on just about anything.

Apple IS the new Microsoft! So is everyone else. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852431)

They just have a puny market share. Their desire for complete control is just as vast as MS. That is how the marketplace works. You go into business to make as much from as many as you can. They are not a charity, church, or non-profit. They are a business, and like most businesses they would love to have what MS does.

The rules are different... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852432)

... for a convicted monopolist.

You are a dumb ass (0, Flamebait)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852433)

Dumb Ass,

There is a difference between freedom of speech and exposing the industry and trade secrets of a company that you have signed a non disclosure agreement or an employment contract with which stipulates that you will not do that very same thing. How and why is this even news. The only news here is that you are a fuckin' moron.

New Microsoft? ... or lapdog? (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852435)

Remember, when apple gets in trouble, microsoft bails them out [tidbits.com] .

Now, Microsoft is using apple to attack Linux saying that OS/X is a better Unix than Linux.

Yeah, sure, you apple fanboys ... this is a troll. No doubt. But it is the truth. Can you handle the truth?

Re:New Microsoft? ... or lapdog? (4, Insightful)

TomHandy (578620) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852513)

You do realize that the purpose of that agreement (with the $150 million in non-voting stock, etc.) was actually related to an agreement on Apple's part not to sue Microsoft over illegally using QuickTime source code in MS Video for Windows (which MS had obtained from a third party company that had helped Apple with porting QuickTime to Windows). Apple realized, correctly, that suing MS would be pointless, and so instead got MS to agree to show a public sign of support for the company, and commit to developing Office and IE for the platform, which was very important (since it avoided the constant fear that MS could destroy the platform by simply ending support for it).

And how is MS using Apple to attack Linux by saying OS X is a better Unix than Linux? I've seen a variety of individuals say something to this effect, but I've never really seen it as an official company line from either MS or Apple.

There can only be one... (0, Flamebait)

Drunken_Jackass (325938) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852436)

Techlander.

Forbes trolling (0, Offtopic)

eo (7103) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852437)

I see that Varg Vikernes was snagged by Forbes' trolling for readership... Oh well. :-/

Jobs is not Gates (5, Interesting)

FunWithHeadlines (644929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852439)

Steve Jobs is capable of being mean-spirited, cruel, self-centered, and the like. If Apple were to take 90% of the computer market, I have no doubt he would bully people around. That said, no, I don't think Apple ever could be the next Microsoft just because he is not Gates. Microsoft is the way it is because of Bill Gates. His thirst for total domination goes beyond most CEOs. He is not satisifed with 90% and will continue to crush competitors until he has it all.

Jobs, in contrast, is at his core someone who knows marketing and wants to dazzle his customers. With Microsoft it's what they want and you have to go along with it. With Apple, it's about finding the best customer experience and using that for profit.

Look at the quality of their respective products. What kind of quality do you get from Gates? Convoluted, buggy, but hey it's got features so shut up. What kind of quality do you get from Jobs? Look at Pixar. They are a money-making machine, but they do it by providing customers with top-notch quality. People are glad to give them their money. With Microsoft, it's often a case of grudgingly giving their money.

So a world dominated by Steve Jobs would undoubtably have it's own problems, it would be different problems than we have seen from Bill Gates. Their personalities are different enough to ensure that.

Re:Jobs is not Gates (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852484)

He already is BULLYING people around, remember those bloggers and the lawsuits about leaked news? Apple has always been the bully boy regarding its designs and products. In some cases they are worse than Microsoft. How much of Apples stuff is open, MS donated .NET, C#, WTL, MSDN and more. Apple just give us Darwin, what else?

Re:Jobs is not Gates (1)

pvera (250260) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852517)

People are glad to give them their money. With Microsoft, it's often a case of grudgingly giving their money.


Thank you sir, in those two very short sentences you described it exactly as it is.

Re:Jobs is not Gates (1)

IamTheRealMike (537420) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852609)

Ah, but it was not always so. When Windows 95 came out, a lot of people left the Mac platform because - though it's hard to believe now - it was in many ways better than the MacOS of the time. What makes you think Apple would have done what it's done today, or continue to do that, if it was dominant?

"Apple's neighbour to the North" (5, Funny)

Saint Aardvark (159009) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852447)

...Canada?

What's wrong with the "old" Microsoft? (1)

Lemurmania (846869) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852448)

It seems that saying someone is the "new Microsoft" is a lot like saying something's the "new black." Will the word Microsoft wind up being an adjective or a verb?

Personally, I aspire to be the New Symantec. But that's just a matter of preference. Anybody here want to be the new Lotus?

Re:What's wrong with the "old" Microsoft? (2, Funny)

AKnightCowboy (608632) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852474)

Will the word Microsoft wind up being an adjective or a verb?

Microsoft is an adjective. Microsoft Word, Microsoft Excel, microsoft Penis, etc.

Yes... (-1, Offtopic)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852449)

It looks like its going that way, certainly. Actually, I saw an interesting article on Wiki a while back which raises some quite valid points... [wikimedia.org]

Four letters (1, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852459)

BSOD.

Apple actually embraces open source, basing its browser on it and releasing the Darwin kernel for its rock-solid (thanks to open source) OS back to the people.

A show of hands,
Who here feels compelled to buy Apple products to stay in business?
What about Microsoft products?

I buy Apple because it works. I buy Microsoft because I have to communicate in business.

Re:Four letters (2, Interesting)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852493)

Embraces? You mean takes? Both Microsoft and Apple exploit open source software, particularly that (unforunately) under the BSD license. For example, MS took the BSD TCP/IP stack and utilities, made a few changes, and locked them up. Apple did the same thing with BSD Unix, which is the foundation of OS X.

Re:Four letters (1)

the_2nd_coming (444906) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852554)

last I checked ou can get the source to darwin.

Re:Four letters (1)

Ph33r th3 g(O)at (592622) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852575)

But not to OS X. The source to Darwin is a sop and a palliative, meant to deflect criticism while not contributing back anything of any commercial value.

Two words (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852496)

Vendor lock-in.

If Apple hadn't had a 20 year history of making developers sign exclusive contracts with Apple, maybe then Apple would have more than 2% of the market.

Think different (except when marketing in China in which case don't use the Dali Lama because when making money in China you have to think the same).

Short answer: (5, Insightful)

Japong (793982) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852461)

"No".

Longer answer:

Apple was never really the "friend" of independents. Macs are designed to be closed systems, not particularly open towards user-implemented modifications. This is one of the reasons the systems are so polished, secure and easy to use. The fact that Apple is willing to sue to protect said secrets doesn't make them the new MS... they're just doing the same thing they've always done - protect their products.

ThinkSecret infringed on that, and it could very well have been detrimental - look at how quickly Intel has designed a Mac-mini clone. Redmond doesn't have to worry about that - most of their software is a clone of Mac ideas anyway.

Re:Short answer: (2)

TagirTheGreat (764980) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852509)

A mini clone? You mean the empty box? I would hardly call that a clone. But I'm not going to argue your point they do need to protect their secrets if they're going to be first to market with their own ideas. But don't over estimate the competition when it comes to copying them. As you stated microsoft is copying mac all the time but anything they touch becomes twisted broken and buggy.

Who cloned them from somebody else. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852512)

Geez. GUI was demonstrated in 1968.
Appleism is historical revisionism to its core.

Re:Short answer: (1)

TellarHK (159748) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852556)

The trend toward mini PC's has been growing for quite some time now, with a lot of the major OEM vendors coming out with form factors and case designs intended to bring the size of systems down. Did a Mac Mini leak do damage by giving the Wintel world a few weeks of a headstart? Maybe, but it doesn't matter a bit. That thing Intel demoed was, as most Intel-world copies of Apple ideas are, ugly as hell.

That being said, I think Apple is simply the barracuda of the PC world, trying to survive by being a vicious bastard so it can survive attacks from polar bears and the occasional penguin. If they'd open up a little more, and let these suits drop, I'd have a lot more respect for them as a corporation. But what can I say? I'm typing this on a Powerbook because they simply make better hardware and software. It's not like Microsoft because Microsoft refuses to innovate unless someone pushes them. Apple is constantly being pushed, so they're making like that barracuda and thrashing at everything they can.

Here we come Private Eye (4, Funny)

Cougem (734635) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852472)

Apple the New Microsoft? Another one for the neophiliacs [private-eye.co.uk]

All image no substance (4, Insightful)

katorga (623930) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852483)

I've been an Apple user since the Apple II back in the Day. They have always marketed the image the company and the customers as open, free thinkers, and iconoclasts. The reality is that Apple is one of the most closed proprietary companies around. As Apple moves closer to being an entertainment company, I expect the trend will get worse.

They seek to have total control over their platform and how the users use that platform. Sueing their fansites is exactly the behavior I would expect from Apple.

It is ironic that Apple used 1984 themes in their first Mac ad since Apple revels in "thought" control.

Oh, pish! (1)

pla (258480) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852486)

along with complaints about the fact that songs purchased from its iTunes music service don't work with music players other than its own

What an absurd complaint! Thanks to "DVD" Jon Johansen, iTunes-bought songs work just fine on any device capable of playing back AAC.

As for the rest, well, nothing new here. The only "new" part about this comes from the fact that Apple fanboys have actually acknowledged the existance of such bullying (though invariably in an apologist tone). But Apple has used exactly these sort of bullying tactics for a great many years... Anyone remember the suits over the original iMac? Or how about their reaction to 3rd-party Aqua theme clones? And god forbid you get a hot anonymous tip about the contents of an upcoming MacWorld - At best you get sued, and if you actually get some real info, Apple will petulantly threaten to pull out altogether!

Nothing to see here, people, move along.

Re:Oh, pish! (1)

webgodjj (779462) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852553)

I agree. So itunes music doesn't work in other media players. Is that really bad? Should tires you buy work on all cars? NO. When you buy music from apple, you buy it knowing that it only works on apple ipods. Was this a sudden mystery to some folks? Apple saw a problem in the online music industry. It implemented the ACC protection because they HAD to. Now making it work only on their stuff is limited. But if you don't like it, then why would you buying it? Go and enjoy napster. Oh wait, that doesn't work on all mp3 players either. rant.

$35B (2, Insightful)

tacokill (531275) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852501)

Not until they have $35 Billion in the bank. That's with a "B" -- and that's cash.

see here [yahoo.com]

If only we had trade secret escrow (2, Interesting)

jessecurry (820286) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852506)

I believe that Apple has a right to know if one of its employees, who would've signed a NDA, is the source of the leak. How would you all feel if in cases such as this the "news source" were required to provide its sources to a third party, at that point the company that wanted to know if a leak was internal would be provided the names of sources only if it matched a list of employees.
I do love the protections that the press has and feel that those protections should be extended to online media, but I also think that companies should have some protection of their trade secrets.

An insult to the slashdot reader. (1)

glrotate (300695) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852510)

Zonk this article is stupid. Why are you wasting our time with it?

Have to consider... (0, Redundant)

MC68040 (462186) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852516)

That apple is mainly suing websites that have had "leaked" information on them, e.g. information about new models coming out etc that could be considered trade secrets before the models are actually put on the market...

cant be, apple doesnt have.... (1)

TouchOfRed (785130) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852519)

developers! developers! developers!
(they only have one)

Strange World (0)

chipset (639011) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852524)

See, Apple make a decent product. They have the most successful online music service. The most successful music players. Yes, because they chose to control the system and not share, people get pissy about it. Are all of their practices perfect? No. But, they created the environment and don't want to "give" their competitive advantage away. This is a far cry from using computer dominance to go into video games , etc. Let's try this. Create a product. Then give away your IP an see how well you compete.

Logic error? (2, Insightful)

Storlek (860226) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852526)

Web sites were not protected by free speech because they are not legitimate members of the press.

So you only have free speech if you're a journalist? I guess I didn't read the First Amendment closely enough. This comes as somewhat of a surprise. I thought Apple was generally doing things right and not being stupid, but maybe I was wrong. I wonder where Google stands on this?

Is... (0, Offtopic)

Who_else_but_me (863576) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852531)

...Cornwall the new Soho? - Private Eye

Why all the name calling? (1)

harris s newman (714436) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852536)

I really don't understand the question. Are you asking if Apple is going to change their name to "New Microsoft"?

fire the mod (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852549)

how does this sort of inane analysis get here other than through a mod who sees the world through idiot goggles

fire him before slashdot gets any more ridiculous, irrelevant and OFNish

Ok ENOUGH. (4, Insightful)

SirDrinksAlot (226001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852550)

Even if you don't count Apple's actions this week as a potential threat to first amendment rights (Apple's crackdown on Web sites that love the company), they do nothing to bolster Apple's public image.
Ok seriously now, thats not helping anything either. Apple has a right to find out who in their company is both breaking the law and lieing to them. Those people who are breaking the law done have any rights in my oppinion and I do hope that Apple finds out who did it and they get fired and punished accordingly.

If I had a contract with somebody and they broke it, I would want to know about it and so would you.

Re:Ok ENOUGH. (1)

argent (18001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852573)

Apple has a right to find out who in their company is both breaking the law and lieing to them.

They have a right to try, yes.

The courts shouldn't have granted them their request. That's where the real problem lies.

I'm not letting Apple off the hook here, though. They should have been able to follow the same reasoning and decide not to proceed because the court case would be a lose-lose proposition for them. If they win, they get more bad press than the leak was worth. If they lose, they've spent money to no benefit.

I hope the ashes of victory taste good.

Re:Ok ENOUGH. (1)

SirDrinksAlot (226001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852597)

Well, Theres no point in having people sign an NDA if you're not going to bother enforcing it.

DRM (1)

ickleberry (864871) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852560)

Microsoft and apple have one thing in common: DRM For now they are both only application level on computers, microsoft's drm will be hardware soon. Apple is the lesser of the 2 evils as it doesnt have so much inflewence on the laws and isnt so notoriously anti-compeditive. but give apple a turnover of 40bn a year and they will probably be just as bad

Re:DRM (3, Insightful)

argent (18001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852608)

Microsoft's DRM is OS level, not application level.

Apple is annoying but not like M$ outside of O$es (2, Insightful)

DinZy (513280) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852566)

I have never been a fan of Apple's business practices. I toyed with getting a powerbook last year but ultimately I went with an HP model because they let me choose what I wanted in it. Apple has a policy where it is their way or the highway. They have some great stuff but the lack of competition selling MAC hardware makes it unfun for people like me to buy. Also they way they deal with iPod is annoying. Want more battery life? Then buy the iPod photo for 500 bucks rather than the adequately sized 20Gb model for 300. They are constanly trying to push products that are more expensive than they should be by bundling options. Look at the iMAC. Neat little machine but if you want a good video card then you have to opt for a standard g5 rig at a higher price.

I really don't see the parallel with M$ but I suppose if Bill gates was selling PC's then maybe. M$ hasn't even "forced" any upgrades to a new OS in 4 years. Apple on the other hand releases service packs for the price of a new O$. Oh wait that's what XP was to win2k. So Ok they are alike in that respect. Apple is just trying to muscle it's way back into the market but they are missing out on a large segement of potential buyers. People like me who want a good system at a reasonable price.

As for iTunes it is just there to sell a product so why should it be compatible with competing technology? If you want to buy music for your non ipod then go to a place that has it.

For the record I do own a 20GB iPod and I love the thing.

No, but could have been Yes many moons ago... (2, Interesting)

Kong99 (618393) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852568)

How could Apple possibly be the new Microsoft today?!?! That is like comparing apples to software.. (pun intended). Apple has no real power EXCEPT over Apple customers. And imho they wield it quite cruelly over them, and always have. They do this in part because they know the Apple devotees will never leave Apple, it has as much to do with the devotees being anti-Wintel as it has to do with loving Apple.

But make no mistake that if Apple had not bungled the marketing of the original Macintosh way back when, and Apple became the monopoly whey would have made the Microsoft we know and love/hate look like a freakin Saint!!

Gates & Co. are motivated by one force... money, anything that threatens them from making it, they attack. Jobs is motivated by power and ego, and is most certainly a megalomaniac.

I'll take a greedy bastard over a megalomaniac any day!!!

no (1)

hyperstation (185147) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852570)

somehow a headshot of jobs with the borg gear doesn't quite grab me...

-1 (5, Insightful)

FEEBLE*BMX (695853) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852571)

Just mod this whole article -1 Flamebait and get it over with.

Not in one regard (1)

SpamJunkie (557825) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852578)

Even if the legal actions are similar, which I'm not saying they are, there is still a major difference between the two:

Apple products are simple, reliable and aesthetically pleasing. Microsoft products are none of these.

Linux rules (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11852584)

I am just amuzing myself with those Windows idiots and their infested machines and those Mac idiots who pay >$2000 for their computer and use itunes just to find their account run down and their credit card number posted on some russian hacker site while I am extremely happy with my Linux machine, its beautiful Gnome desktop, the great performance, and the thousands of high quality and free software packages of the Linux world.

Apple (1)

fozzmeister (160968) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852586)

Is far more litigious than MS usually. The really are behaving _very_ badly of late. If MS tried half the tactics that apple currently do then it'd be straight in court from the DOJ/Whoever.

Having said that I'm sure MS were a lot worse when they were smaller, but thier size of everyone watching them has tempered them a lot.

Since 1989 (1)

spywarearcata.com (841806) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852589)

Apple turned the corner in 1989 with the theft of Apple source code and the consequent heavy-handed stimulus initiating the EFF.

The corporate monolithic spirit of John Scully lives on in a CEO suddenly exposed to the mortality of cancer, Steve Jobs.

Has Apple Changed - No - Lifted GUI fromZerox (1)

cannuck (859025) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852591)

Has Apple Changed - No! Allegation That Jobs Lifted GUI from Zerox - way back when.

No, but... (0, Troll)

I Be Hatin' (718758) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852594)

Apple is the old BSD... Netcraft confirms it.

Microsoft is the ONLY Microsoft (4, Insightful)

Mathetes (132911) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852598)

I keep reading that "Red Hat is the new Microsoft" or "Apple is the new Microsoft". There is only one Microsoft! They alone have near monoploy market share. They alone have tried their best to lock people into their own proprietary versions (java, web browsers, office suites).

Apple may guard their secrets and markets closely, but they also support open standards and open source.

Red Hat makes the source code for all their products easily available by ftp/http mirrors everywhere.

To paraphrase Gandalf: There is only one Microsoft and it does not share power!

Apple = Microsoft? (3, Interesting)

Gilesx (525831) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852603)

Believe it or not, just like Apple, Microsoft also used to have an army of fanboys for whom MS could do no wrong. I remember the fevered launch of Windows 95, with them all lining up outside stores at midnight to be the first to own a copy - I don't think even the Apple fanboys have got this bad yet!

However, for all the blind loyalty, slowly but surely people started to hate Microsoft. I can see Apple going exactly the same way. Why? Because like Microsoft, they have started to screw the average Joe around and act anti-competitively.

When they make their cute little computers, they can pretty much get away with charging at a premium, as they have total lock-in and nobody else can make a compatible, yet cheaper device (and competition is one of the main things that commerce is founded on). However, with, for example, the iPod and iTunes store, a lot of other companies have been able to produce alternatives that are cheaper, and do the job just as well, but better. What's the Apple answer? Lower the costs? Make their products (Fairplay DRM I'm looking at you) more attractive to consumers? Nope. Instead they try to stifle the competition by making their hardware only able to purchase tracks from their own online store (which kind of feels like a car manufacturer only allowing their cars to be used with their own brand gas), and taking legal action against any competitor that tries to provide tracks that can be made to work with Apple's hardware.

If that isn't anti-competitive, and the Microsoft way, then I don't know what is.

so.. (0, Redundant)

lejerdemayn (823082) | more than 9 years ago | (#11852606)

.. what does this make of Microsoft? are they now the new Apple? :)
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