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Fragging on Linux and TransGaming

Zonk posted more than 9 years ago | from the penguin-for-the-win dept.

Wine 267

Kez writes "HEXUS.net has an article looking at the current state of Linux gaming and the broad number of supported games both natively and through emulation. Included in the article is a chat with the Product Manager of TransGaming - the creators of Cedega (formerly known as WineX.)" From the article: "Well, Linux certainly isn't most peoples' thought for a games-based PC. Especially one being taken to a big tournament LAN party. However, by design or trickery, none of the tournament games at the event were out-of-bounds to my Linux machine, and rousing games of Call of Duty, Quake 2 and Unreal Tournament 2004 were shared by the HEXUS.net collective and any other gamers who felt like joining in." We ran a story about a similar article back in February.

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First LOL post (-1, Troll)

Fecal Troll Matter (445929) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855675)

IANAL, LOL.

nigga!
i fucking hate you.

Re:First LOL post (0, Troll)

The_Fire_Horse (552422) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855827)

What a strange headline - I read this as:

FAGGING ON LINUX

and I thought, finally - these dirty GNU hippies are coming out of the closet!

Cube (5, Informative)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855697)

Cube [cubeengine.com] is worth checking out, runs nicely in Linux, and also on the PC so your linux-lorn friends can check it out to. Lots of fraggin' going on there.

correction. (0)

AtariAmarok (451306) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855716)

I meant that it also runs on the Windows PC, not just the Linux one!

Re:Cube (5, Insightful)

yahwotqa (817672) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856042)

Yes, but the game itself feels like shareware from early 90s.

Unlike most other Linux gaming articles (3, Insightful)

bersl2 (689221) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855708)

This one seems written by somebody who knows his way around the landscape.

List of games (3, Informative)

Virtual Karma (862416) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855711)

Here is a link for games that run on linux [linux.sk] . You can check out the high end and low end games listing.

Re:List of games (2, Informative)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855768)

Or even better, the Linux Game Tome [happypenguin.org] , which is the original site to list games, and also the primary site where Linux game authors post their updates.

Re:List of games (0, Flamebait)

hardcampa (533829) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855808)

Unfortunally all of those games are pieces of shit and not worth spening more than an afternoon on.

Re:List of games (2, Informative)

kuzb (724081) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856018)

I feel compelled to agree with the parent's colourful analysis. While I'm sure there are a few gems in there, opensource games are largely unrefined. They simply can't stack up to the quality of commercial games.

Re:List of games (2, Interesting)

joeljkp (254783) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856375)

Or even better, Icculus' list [icculus.org] of actual commercial games that run natively on Linux.

Heh (5, Interesting)

cerberus4696 (765520) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855746)

I've actually found that the Linux version of UT2004 actually runs a bit better under Linux than under windows. I think it has something to do with the way windows allocates virtual memory; when I run under windows, the game eventually starts stuttering as windows valiantly tries to compensate for my woefully small amount of RAM; under Linux, it seems to keep chugging along just fine.

Re:Heh (5, Funny)

cot (87677) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855798)

"I've actually found that the Linux version of UT2004 actually runs a bit better under Linux than under windows."

Well, that stands to reason. I'd wager that the Windows version of UT2004 runs better under Windows than Linux.

Re:Heh (2, Interesting)

c0l0 (826165) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855812)

I've made similar experiences with Quake III with Punkbuster enabled. On WinNT 5.x, it seems impossible to get the game to run without SEVERE stuttering for the first 5 or so minutes it's been loaded - even on my 3.5GHz rig with a RAID0-setup. Under Linux, I fire up the binary, and get my 125fps from the very beginning of all the fun. That's just another good reason for Linux being my OS of choice. ;)

Re:Heh (1)

Mad Merlin (837387) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855893)

I can attest to that. When I first moved over to Linux and started playing Quake 3 one of the first things I noticed was that it ran much smoother, no more cursed "PB lag".

Re:Heh (2, Interesting)

mike5904 (831108) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856410)

How much RAM, and what kind of video card do you have? I've found that Quake3 will run perfectly fine under XP, on the order of 150fps at high detail and 1600x1200 settings, with my 2 year old graphics card, 512MB of memory, and 2.4GHz processor (no disk striping either). I get a little bit less, around 135fps under Linux. Your problem really sounds like a configuration issue.

Re:Heh (1)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855883)

Same here. I found the game plays pretty much the same on both Linux and Windows, but load times on Linux are a fraction of those on Windows. Had similar experiences with Quake 2 & 3 aswell.

Re:Heh (1, Informative)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856004)

Define a fixed-size swap file, and call me in the morning.

-The Windows Doctor

I know exactly what you mean. (5, Funny)

fluxrad (125130) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856020)

I've actually found that the Linux version of UT2004 actually runs a bit better under Linux than under windows.

That is so true! For some reason, Linux version of UT2004 takes a huge performance hit in Windows.

Re:I know exactly what you mean. (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856576)

I posted substantially the same joke, before you, and took a -1 overrated for it. You post it and get modded up funny.

Are the mods retarded? I guess given the pool they draw from, I know the answer to my own question.

TransGaming: Unchristian company (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855749)

TransGaming is both insulting since it references transubstantiation (Catholic cultism) and transexualism (disgusting liberal plot). We, the righteous OSS community need to boycott these heretics.

Re:TransGaming: Unchristian company (5, Funny)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855828)

TransGaming is both insulting since it references transubstantiation (Catholic cultism) and transexualism (disgusting liberal plot). We, the righteous OSS community need to boycott these heretics.

Are you kidding? Heretic is a great game...

Re:TransGaming: Unchristian company (1)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856331)

...righteous OSS community... damn man. You win.

Screw WineX, Cedega... (5, Insightful)

darth_silliarse (681945) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855773)

It's because of apps like this no-one wants to adopt Linux as a gaming platform. The road will be long and hard but we must stop buying stuff like this and also stop buying Windows games, only when the companies realise there is a genuine market for Linux games will there be any progress. I can hold out, can you?

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (3, Insightful)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855811)

Currently the majority of games that define "the gaming world" do not run on Linux. Give a true gamer the choice of sticking with Windows to play their game or not play their game under Linux, what will they choose? Obviously they'll stick with their game in old Windows. By having programs such as Cedegra it allows users to get a taste of gaming in Linux and show the Game companies that hey Fragging in Linux is indeed possible and inevitable. With that being said, emulation is just a crutch, once a critical mass of Linux gamers is reached native ports should follow.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (4, Interesting)

adam31 (817930) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856836)

Not trolling (not my intent at least), but the 'majority of games that define the "gaming world"' don't run on PC Windows either... They run on GC, PS2, X-Box, DC, PSP, GBA.

Go get one and enjoy the world of games, online and offline, that exist. Appreciate linux for whatever reason you decided to install it, but bickering about Respect Aw Communitay is not worth the effort when you can get a console for half the price of a year-old video card!

It's hard enough for publishers to make money off PC games already without having to worry about linux.
And if it makes you feel better, I'm positive that Linux games will flourish when the Cell gets a foothold.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (2, Insightful)

rpozz (249652) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856043)

Considering Linux has a small marketshare, and is an absolute nightmare to support (due to all the different distros), WineX/Cedega could be a very good way forward. Testing and possibly tweaking a DirectX on Cedega is one hell of a lot easier for a games company to do than a full Linux port.

There will not be a genuine market for Linux games until people stop dual-booting because they use Windows for games. Chicken and egg scenario.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (1)

KarmaMB84 (743001) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856569)

or maybe it's the small marketshare...

Its not Cedegas fault (2, Insightful)

Sweetshark (696449) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856060)

It's because of apps like this no-one wants to adopt Linux as a gaming platform.
Not true. If that would be true, game developers would take care that the games runs in Wine/Cedega. They are not - the linux market is not important. If the market would matter, the game developers would use stuff that is easily portable (OpenGL, SDL), if they are not limited by the enviroment (for example the need to use a DirectDraw gfx engine).
The only game I can think of that took care of wine compatibility and had no native linux version was Master Of Orion III. If your argument ("no one develops for linux because of wine") would be true, there would be far more games like that.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (3, Interesting)

martian265 (156352) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856154)

I'm sorry, but I'm too much of a gamer to just boycott games until the publishers/producers start pumping out games designed specifically for Linux. While it's a great idea, I'm afraid that it won't work. I think that they won't start doing this until consumers start buying computers installed with Linux regularly. The executives and marketing/salespeople just don't see the potential yet because most Linux users either build their own machine or install Linux onto a manufacturers machine.

Personally I would love to completely drop windows, and gaming is the only reason I still have XP. However, that doesn't mean that I'm willing to start boycotting the latest/greatest games, or start buying big manu computers that are sans OS or have Linux installed (I like getting a total custom system without propietary hardware crap and for cheaper than a comparable system from a manu). I realize that makes me "part of the problem", but I don't feel strongly enough about this to make the sacrifice.

FYI, if you think this is a strange attitude, I should mention that the only reason I ever got into computers was because of gaming. I played games all the way through commodores, amigas, x86s. Warcraft 2 is of course what really threw me full on into the computer world and later the industry.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (1)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856281)

Well, sure. I can wait too. We'll probably be dead by then.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856345)

I already have a torrent for Cedega, but is WineX worth downloading?

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (1)

joeljkp (254783) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856388)

On the chance that this isn't a troll... WineX is the old name of Cedega. Same thing.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856536)

Thanks. I'll check out Cedega then.

Will it work under Linspire or Peanut Linux?

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega... (1)

joeljkp (254783) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856575)

Should work under anything. You do have to pay $15 (3-month sub.) for the privilege of downloading, though.

But when you do, they offer rpm, deb, and tar.gz.

Re:Screw WineX, Cedega...but... will it help with (1)

davidsyes (765062) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856943)

other apps or non-gaming software.

I have not read the article, and my memory is hazy on this, but will Cedega/WineX help with the use of regular ms-windows-based apps? I want to run Lotus SmartSuite and others (yes, I know NeTraverse just released a new no-kernel-mod-required version of their software for under $100...), such as some CAD apps.

But, aside from NeTraverse and some kernel maintainters/developers weaving NeTraverse code into a distro-neutral kernel (and somehow still maintaining a profit stream for NeTraverse so they don't get run into the ground by shareholder fear that a "bunch of scruffy/lazy/cheapo Linux advocates will demand the thing for free...".

Even if the apps is cheap, maintainance and upgrades will cost somewhere, so "free" as in beer in (GNU)Linux/Open Source software will HAVE to for some cases defer to profit model so people get paid.

But, back to my main question: Will Cedega and companies similar to it that offer gaming environments/compatibility seamlesssly or with minor effort permit (disk) local or on-the-net support for non-games. If Lotus SmartSuite runs under that emulation or support, then it would TRULY make OpenOffice (and, particularly, SUN) wake up and speed up the feature sets that are still lacking in OO.o/SO. I think they've been too long been staring at ms office and not spending enough time looking at (or negotiating with IMB about features in) Lotus SmartSuite.

Speaking of that, does anyone know if any of IBM's patents being held but granted Open Source use/development include SmartSuite features? I know there is in Japan a company called SourceNext. I don't know if they develop or just publish, or both, but they release a product called "SuperOffice", and it is based on Lotus SmartSuite, for the Japanese market, and it's only about Y3500. If I had Japanese fonts, I could get it to install in Win98 (running in Win4Lin in my Mandrake-based laptop), so that I could see if things I do in SmartSuite in english would port easily to Japanese users. At first glancee, though, it horrendously converts dialogs, text widgets, forms, and more. So, trying to sell anything to the Japanese market probably is or would be a ludicrous attempt on my part.

David Syes

Windows can be free too (-1, Troll)

scenestar (828656) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855779)

If you get a warezed version of windows it's free too.

Sure, having to tweak every aspect of your kernel is fun. But it still doesn't beat the click/run/play functionality of windows

Square peg -- Round hole (5, Interesting)

spaeschke (774948) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855785)

I see the usual suspects again rear their heads: Quake 3, UT2004, etc, etc, etc.
Love Linux on a server, as a games machine you've got to ask yourself why you're ponying up cash for a graphics card that is only going to be used by a handful of games. And if you're such a gamer that Cedega is a must for you, why are you even bothering to screw around with a kludge when you could just dual boot.
I guess I'm just not hardcore enough to be that much of a purist that I'd jump through so many damned hoops just to be MS free. I enjoy having access to a huge library of games, and I really enjoy not having to deal with botched textures and subpar performance just to make sure it runs on my pet OS. I'm a gamer first and foremost, and in this day and age that means Microsoft.

Re:Square peg -- Round hole (4, Insightful)

Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855863)

I enjoy having access to a huge library of games, and I really enjoy not having to deal with botched textures and subpar performance just to make sure it runs on my pet OS. I'm a gamer first and foremost, and in this day and age that means Microsoft.

Your focus is gaming, and you're right to choose Microsoft. But for me, I actually use Linux to do work, and I enjoy being able to launch Quake for a quicky, or play Xpilot online while something compiles. Dual boot isn't really an option for me, and I'm glad many games run on Linux, even if they may not give tip-top performance as under Windows. So you see, for some it's not a matter of "pet OS", but a simple question of practicality.

What about colinux? (0, Offtopic)

sonamchauhan (587356) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856994)

CoLinux [colinux.org] gives decent Linux performance, but your primary desktop has to be Windows.

Re:Square peg -- Round hole (3, Interesting)

mlmitton (610008) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855891)

Why do we bother? Network externalities. For a number of reasons, I run Linux instead of Windows. I like (but don't love) gaming, and there's no question Windows is the place for that. However, if people don't use games on Linux, then there never will be any games for Linux. It's a chicken and egg problem that *somebody* has to step forward to try and solve. It'll be hard to convince game publishers to be the one to solve it, so that leaves Linux users.

Those of us who use Linux may need to boot Windows to play a particular game (if we have dual boot--I don't), but why not use Linux when a game is available? And why not let game publishers know that you would rather play, and be more likely to buy, if the game were released under Linux? It has to start somewhere, and that means us.

good enough (1)

Sweetshark (696449) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855906)

Linux probably will never be a primary platform for commercial games. But as with most open source the availability of games is close to reaching a "good enough" state for most users. Honestly, no one needs 20.000 different first person shooters. There are rarely commericial games with new concepts. Only one for each group need sto be playable (native or via an emulation layer) to reach a "good enough" for the majority of users.
And since open source is a process the games will improve and improve. Freeciv, Wesnoth and Flightgear are good examples. They might not be as polished as the "originals", but they really finetune the engine basics (freeciv: multiplayer and configurability, Wesnoth: balance, Flightgear: faa certification)- eyecandy will come later. It worked with server software and it probably will work with game engines (and every open source game is also a open source engine by the very nature of the license):

Re:good enough (1)

agraupe (769778) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856565)

Flightgear is not good enough. You don't understand flightsimmers: we need realism. I tried flightgear, with a supported joystick, and it was hard to use (I didn't figure out how to take off) and unrealistic, in terms of aircraft panels. Add to that the fact that addons pretty much define how good a flightsim game is, and it is clear that flightgear isn't even close yet. Also, I have a large console (yoke, switching, throttle, prop control, mixture) that only works with MS FS2004. Now, X-plane, which has a linux version, is a good flightsim (except for not supporting my console). Sadly, it is payware, but it is a much better flightsim example to use in situations such as this.

Re:Square peg -- Round hole (0, Troll)

Tough Love (215404) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856992)

I'm a gamer first and foremost, and in this day and age that means Microsoft.

As far as I'm concerned, if a game doesn't run on Linux, it doesn't exist.

tastefully done (0, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855794)

I espically liked how the screenshot showed XFCE and not some ungodly goofy looking KDE or Red-hat stylized Gnome. Slapping Farcy and Steam up on the dock is straight up ill, props to Transgaming and Hexus for showing the haters at TomsHardware "how its done".

An important note is needed. I beleive more reasonably priced OpenGL 2.0 video cards need to come onto the market inorder to even out the ratio of OpenGL to the DirectX (shadder equiped) cards.

A Gaming VM (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855826)

some thoughts in the linuxgaming forums [happypenguin.org]

Why not do something like this? It might be 2d-only at first but it would satisfy the requirements of almost any game.

Interesting answer (4, Insightful)

Adam9 (93947) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855833)

FTA:

Q: Which Linux distributions cause the most headaches for your support people? Which ones Just Work? And which one do you use yourself, given the choice?

A: Currently I would have to say Gentoo causes the most support requests. With bleeding edge packages and a million and one different configurations in how you can use it, Gentoo has the most support requests by far.

I wonder if this is true for other packages out there. (This comes from me being a gentoo user)

Re:Interesting answer (5, Funny)

termos (634980) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856289)

Official Gentoo-Linux-Zealot translator-o-matic

Gentoo Linux is an interesting new distribution with some great features. Unfortunately, it has attracted a large number of clueless wannabes and leprotards who absolutely MUST advocate Gentoo at every opportunity. Let's look at the language of these zealots, and find out what it really means...

"Gentoo makes me so much more productive."
"Although I can't use the box at the moment because it's compiling something, as it will be for the next five days, it gives me more time to check out the latest USE flags and potentially unstable optimisation settings."

"Gentoo is more in the spirit of open source!"
"Apart from Hello World in Pascal at school, I've never written a single program in my life or contributed to an open source project, yet staring at endless streams of GCC output whizzing by somehow helps me contribute to international freedom."

"I use Gentoo because it's more like the BSDs."
"Last month I tried to install FreeBSD on a well-supported machine, but the text-based installer scared me off. I've never used a BSD, but the guys on Slashdot say that it's l33t though, so surely I must be for using Gentoo."

"Heh, my system is soooo much faster after installing Gentoo."
"I've spent hours recompiling Fetchmail, X-Chat, gEdit and thousands of other programs which spend 99% of their time waiting for user input. Even though only the kernel and glibc make a significant difference with optimisations, and RPMs and .debs can be rebuilt with a handful of commands (AND Red Hat supplies i686 kernel and glibc packages), my box MUST be faster. It's nothing to do with the fact that I've disabled all startup services and I'm running BlackBox instead of GNOME or KDE."

"...my Gentoo Linux workstation..."
"...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy fan..."

"You Red Hat guys must get sick of dependency hell..."
"I'm too stupid to understand that circular dependencies can be resolved by specifying BOTH .rpms together on the command line, and that problems hardly ever occur if one uses proper Red Hat packages instead of mixing SuSE, Mandrake and Joe's Linux packages together (which the system wasn't designed for)."

"All the other distros are soooo out of date."
"Constantly upgrading to the latest bleeding-edge untested software makes me more productive. Never mind the extensive testing and patching that Debian and Red Hat perform on their packages; I've just emerged the latest GNOME beta snapshot and compiled with -O9 -fomit-instructions, and it only crashes once every few hours."

"Let's face it, Gentoo is the future."
"OK, so no serious business is going to even consider Gentoo in the near future, and even with proper support and QA in place, it'll still eat up far too much of a company's valuable time. But this guy I met on #animepr0n is now using it, so it must be growing!"

-

Re:Interesting answer (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856495)

I use Gentoo because every other linux distro had something slightly broken on my machine. Fedora wouldn't even boot the installer. Ubuntu kept changing my refresh rate and I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to stop it. Mepis couldn't find my SATA disks. Etc.

So I gave up and did the nearest thing to starting from scratch that I could tolerate - a stage 2 gentoo install. I'm fairly sure that my machine has something funny about it that some useful Linux boot-time service or kernel feature gets upset by, but since I've turned every damn thing off except what I need my machine actually works properly.

Of course, it's probably just because I'm dumb. And the gentoo fiends are very wrong, portage is not even remotely rock solid. I've done emerge --update world maybe ten times since install, and three or four of those have died at some point for some random reason. Often easily fixed (say, a missed dependency in the ebuild) but not exactly the future. Ubuntu was better at most of this stuff, and no slower. And apt-get worked a lot better, I'm sorry to say.

But on the upside, I now have a computer that does a full system backup onto a single CD, which is quite managable and would return me to a completely usable environment. That has to be a good thing.

Re:Interesting answer (3, Insightful)

agraupe (769778) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856589)

Disclaimer: I am a gentoo user.

Some of that is true, some of it isn't. Firstly, gentoo, for me, isn't about speed or cutting-edge releases: it's about customizability and software management. Portage has never given me any hassles, other than taking up time (which I'm willing to put up with), and I know that, for each program, I get a build with my favorite features. I like debian for this same reason (ease of software managements). I also like the customizability, which comes not only in the form of USE flags, but the fact that most things must be configured to taste. Was doing the first kernel compile easy? Was setting up my soundsystem foolproof? No to both questions, but in the end I think I have a better system. But, yeah, it's a niche market. Why others can't accept that is beyond me...

Re:Interesting answer (1)

TelJanin (784836) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856624)

If you're going to troll, at least be original

"Gentoo makes me so much more productive."
"Although I can't use the box at the moment because it's compiling something, as it will be for the next five days, it gives me more time to check out the latest USE flags and potentially unstable optimisation settings."


Of course, you could just not use -j5000 on your P2.

"Gentoo is more in the spirit of open source!"
"Apart from Hello World in Pascal at school, I've never written a single program in my life or contributed to an open source project, yet staring at endless streams of GCC output whizzing by somehow helps me contribute to international freedom."


I don't quote dumbasses at you, don't you quote them back at me. This is, by the way, being spoken to you by somebody who designs programs used company-wide.

"I use Gentoo because it's more like the BSDs."
"Last month I tried to install FreeBSD on a well-supported machine, but the text-based installer scared me off. I've never used a BSD, but the guys on Slashdot say that it's l33t though, so surely I must be for using Gentoo."


If they were "scared off" by a text-based FreeBSD install, how did they install Gentoo?

"Heh, my system is soooo much faster after installing Gentoo."
"I've spent hours recompiling Fetchmail, X-Chat, gEdit and thousands of other programs which spend 99% of their time waiting for user input. Even though only the kernel and glibc make a significant difference with optimisations, and RPMs and .debs can be rebuilt with a handful of commands (AND Red Hat supplies i686 kernel and glibc packages), my box MUST be faster. It's nothing to do with the fact that I've disabled all startup services and I'm running BlackBox instead of GNOME or KDE."


Or perhaps it's because everything is prelinked and doesn't come with every possible combination of library support.

"...my Gentoo Linux workstation..."
"...my overclocked AMD eMachines box from PC World, and apart from the third-grade made-to-break components and dodgy fan..."


This isn't even insulting to Gentoo, why is it on your troll post?

"You Red Hat guys must get sick of dependency hell..."
"I'm too stupid to understand that circular dependencies can be resolved by specifying BOTH .rpms together on the command line, and that problems hardly ever occur if one uses proper Red Hat packages instead of mixing SuSE, Mandrake and Joe's Linux packages together (which the system wasn't designed for)."


If you can't even figure out what Dep Hell is, why are you trying to prove how smart you are by invoking it?

"All the other distros are soooo out of date."
"Constantly upgrading to the latest bleeding-edge untested software makes me more productive. Never mind the extensive testing and patching that Debian and Red Hat perform on their packages; I've just emerged the latest GNOME beta snapshot and compiled with -O9 -fomit-instructions, and it only crashes once every few hours."


Stop quoting dumbass ricers not indicitive of the Gentoo community as a whole.

"Let's face it, Gentoo is the future."
"OK, so no serious business is going to even consider Gentoo in the near future, and even with proper support and QA in place, it'll still eat up far too much of a company's valuable time. But this guy I met on #animepr0n is now using it, so it must be growing!"


First, nobody except a dumbass would say "Gentoo is the future." Second, Gentoo is quite ready for corporate deployment and works well for most tasks. Plus, how will it eat up companies' time?

Newbies need help (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856767)

Most Gentoo users are clueless Linux newbies. It wouldn't surprise me if AOL users generate the most support calls for EBay. Why are we surprised by Gentoo users generating the most support calls for Cadega?

Boycott Transgaming (1, Insightful)

Mystic0 (807930) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855845)

Transgaming does not support the Wind community like codeweavers does. By buying Transgaming's proprietory software, you are being dominated and are supporting non-free software. Instead donate money to the Wine Project, which is free software.

Re:Boycott Transgaming (1)

Mystic0 (807930) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855854)

Typo: I meant Wine... not "Wind" :o

Re:Boycott Transgaming (1)

Aadain2001 (684036) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856212)

Nah, I'd rater pay my $15 so a company that seems to actually listen to it's customers and try their harderst to fix issues with specific games than download Wine, maybe get it to compile, and then have it not run anything. Cedega is a good company that supports its users and produces a product that works. That is why I buy Cedega and why I will continue to buy it.

Re:Boycott Transgaming (1)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856263)

You wine experiance sounds just like my Cedega experiance.
If you have any problems running games under wine (which should be less often than Cedega since more games seem to run under wine), then send a message to the ine mailing list and I'm sure someone will help. (I doub't that they will object to the $25 either)

Re:Boycott Transgaming (4, Interesting)

oliverthered (187439) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856236)

I'm working on DirectX 9 for vanila wine, you can checkout the current version from my website [oliverthered.com] . There's another update going up in a few days as well as instructions on patching the wine tree.
The current state of play is more-or-less everything works except shaders (because I haven't ported them from d3d8 yet), the current version has some texture problems, the fix will be in the next release.

Re:Boycott Transgaming (1)

Mystic0 (807930) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856734)

Thanks. Unfortunatly, people think my comment was flamebait. I guess having a minority opinion these days is considered bait for a flamewar....

Re:Boycott Transgaming (1)

Mitchell Mebane (594797) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856993)

I wish I had mod points, I'd mod you up. Fortunately, oliverthered and co. seem to be doing some excellent work lately.

Random Thoughts (4, Interesting)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855866)

I have a few random thoughts on this issue.

First Loki is mentioned in the article, in a way that seems to imply that they would be more successful today thanks to the larger installed base (which sounds plausable). That said, it made me think of something. What about Aspyr? They seem to specialize in porting Windows games to the Mac. If they are doing that (which would probably require moving the games to OpenGL and OpenAL if they don't use 'em already), then shouldn't it be a quick walk from there to Linux? Seems like as long as you are moving platforms, the little extra effort for the increased market share you can sell to seems like a good idea.

Second is Tux Racer. Why do these articles always mention Tux Racer. It was cute that it existed 5 years ago, but the last time I tried it (a year to so ago) it still seemed amaturish (not bad, just simple and not as polished as a "real" game). It just doesn't seem like it should be an example that is trotted out every time one of these articles comes out.

Too bad we can't just get more people to use OpenGL and OpenAL/SDL/whatever in the first place so things no NEED full ports to be sellable on Linux/BSD/OS X/whatever. If MS were to somehow lose 20%+ market share quickly, the scramble to move these Windows only programs to other OSes would be fun to watch.

Last but not least... why do I have to pay so much? I moved from PC to Mac and would have to rebuy all my games. The data files are where most of your money is tied up. Write portable, and sell one box with one DVD that works on Win/Lin/Mac. Or just sell a Windows version and when the Linux/Mac version are ready make the files freely downloadable so anyone with a Windows copy run under Linux/Mac.

If (seemingly) every big console game can come out on all three consoles within a year (usually at the same time), then surely you can launch a computer game that runs on the big 3 OSes (Win, Lin, Mac) without 2+ year porting times. The difference between a Mac and a Linux box are MUCH MUCH SMALLER than between a Cube and a PS2.

Re:Random Thoughts (1)

MBCook (132727) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855890)

Last thing (sorry to reply to myself). If even little guys like Chronic Logic and many other "Indie" places can release a game that runs on Win/Lin/Mac, then WHY CAN'T MR. JUGGERNAUT EA do the same thing? That's right, they can, they just don't care.

A little forethought during planning and early development and it would be easy for them.

Re:Random Thoughts (1, Insightful)

spaeschke (774948) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855914)

They don't write cross-platform because they can already hit their biggest target (Windows) and use a superior API (DirectX) to hit it. You write for DirectX and you've already got at the very least the PC and XBox platforms sewn up. Would the very small marketshare represented by Apple and Linux really make that much of a difference? Now if those platforms were larger, maybe then you'd see a lot more cross-platform work, but right now it barely makes sense to port games to Apple; it sure as hell doesn't make much financial sense to port to Linux, except maybe a server version (BF1942, HL, etc.).

Re:Random Thoughts (1)

minus_273 (174041) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856170)

"If (seemingly) every big console game can come out on all three consoles within a year (usually at the same time), then surely you can launch a computer game that runs on the big 3 OSes (Win, Lin, Mac) without 2+ year porting times. The difference between a Mac and a Linux box are MUCH MUCH SMALLER than between a Cube and a PS2. "

actually, no. when console games are made and not intended to be cross platform, the game is often written with a 3rd party API and it is easily ported to any of the 3 systems. You also need to keep in mind that linux users dont buy software and that is the big difference between them and Mac users.

DNFTT, but... (1)

StupidKatz (467476) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856653)

I'm a Linux user; it powers 80% of my network.
I pay for every single software package I use, if payment is requested. (Now that I think of it, I haven't paid for mIRC yet. Whoops.)

Just because someone is a "Linux user", it does not automatically follow that they are either copyright infringers, cheapskates, broke, or use just vi, lilo, and httpd.

Re:Random Thoughts (3, Insightful)

_Sprocket_ (42527) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856819)

You also need to keep in mind that linux users dont buy software and that is the big difference between them and Mac users.

What's the data to back up that claim? If it's a simple observation - I can offer one too. Every commercial piece of software out there, no matter what platform and to include MacOS and Windows is available as "warez". It would seem that Windows and MacOS users don't pay for software too.

Of course, we know that's bunk. It's more complex an issue than that. Just as there are considerable offerings available for Linux without a fee... there is also commercial software available for a fee. And people do, in fact, buy that software. I know - I'm one of them.

Re:Random Thoughts (1)

mabhatter654 (561290) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856542)

The real problem is that most "PC" games are fast becomming just ports of console games. PC gaming is increasingly becomming an afterthought in the "big leagues". What's really needed is for a cross platform PC/linux/mac kit to push into the mainstream. The big corps like dealing with MS...MS drops LOTS of cash and sells lots of units...WOW with 800k units sold is a "bad-to-medium" game in the Xbox world!!

There needs to be an PC game industry wide wake-up call before the consoles completely shut down gaming. Let's face it, the PC gaming industry has only Linux and Mac left. MS is bent on mobiles and pockets and Xboxes.... PC gaming is just a R&D test for them... Personally, I think MS is getting ready to draw "a line in the sand" so to speak, to put the final lockdown on the industry before the next OS comes out [they're locking out FAT32, Win98, etc all the old compatibility things] ...my bet is that the DIY PC market [and hence the gaming market] is going to be dead with MS's next OS.

Needless to say, I'm "drinking the Kool-aid" and working to get all my kids' favorite stuff up on a Ubuntu box!

no counter-strike for you (1)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855881)

i work at a internet lan center and counter strike is THE BIG THING. can you play it on linux?
the top 5 games in order are:
1. Counter strke 1.6
2. diablo 2 lod
3. counter strike source
4. world of warcraft
5. warcraft 3

we gained alot of business when our competition got the cease and desist, because we are currently paying the valve tax.

how many of the games i just list can you play on linux/

Re:no counter-strike for you (2, Insightful)

homeobocks (744469) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856062)

Offhand, I know that 1, 2, 3, and 5 work. I'd have to look up WoW.

Re:no counter-strike for you (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856298)

one of my friends brought his linux pc to a lan party and he could get 1.5 to run but steam didn't work, and he couldn't play with us.

warcraft 3 runs to slow under winex last time i checked.

linux makes a great game server, but not a client.

oh does ls client and the cas server run under linux. try to run a lan party without those oh my god getting people the right versions is so difficult without them, even though i've seen better coded software come out of mental institute.

Re:no counter-strike for you (1)

Koiu Lpoi (632570) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856314)

Counter-Strike, CS Source, (Steam et. al.), Warcraft 3, and Diablo 2 all work under Cedega. If you don't believe me, try This. [transgaming.com]

EVE Online runs fine. (1)

Silverlancer (786390) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855919)

Except for a white login screen, meaning you have to click around to find the password box and the login button. I'm surprised that something that isn't so ridiculously high profile (Doom 3, etc) works on WineX...

Re:EVE Online runs fine. (1)

thryllkill (52874) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856564)

I understand what you are saying, but Doom 3 is a bad example as it has native Linux support. I can't understand why anyone would run it in Cedega.

Garage Games (3, Informative)

mlmitton (610008) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855921)

The article really should have mentioned Garage Games [garagegames.com] . Marble Blast and Gish are two of the funnest games I've ever played. If a good game to you is based on eye-candy, then this isn't the place for you. But if a good game is based on game-play, these were the best $20 I've ever spent.

Re:Garage Games (1)

Lisandro (799651) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856125)

Ditto! Gish is the best platform game i've played in ages, and at $20 is a steal.

And i disagree about eye candy, i think it looks damn good, if a bit too dark. The cartoony design of the characters is great.

Sponsored 'linux' keyword (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855929)

Anyone else find it ironic that on hexux.net, the word Linux links to www.microsoft.com's server 2003.

It's too bad (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11855930)

It's too bad linux doesn't have the game support it needs, but I have a feeling that isn't going to change any until more people actually start using linux. The issue there is that most people really don't know enough to benefit from using most linux distros. They don't get a kick from fiddling around with computers, they get annoyed and frustrated. Linux's main hope I see is in the business sector. If enough businesses start running linux, maybe people will start installing in at home as well. From there things like installing programs and hardware has to be improved. If those basic things are done, there might be a decent enough user base for game developers to port games. Or maybe it could go the other way. Game developers port, user base grows. Whatever happens I know plenty of people who are sick of getting viri in their computers, but would rather deals with those than the difficulty of linux right now. More companies should start supporting linux developement, and some of the linux guru's should start putting more effort effort into making linux usable for the average person. Not everyone wants to hear RTFM when they are confused with linux.

And just out of curiosity, how difficult is it really to port a game to linux? Does it take that much to start the game design with the idea that it will be a multi-platform game? Also, would game performance benefit if the developers offered binaries of the game engines so people could compile them for their computer settings?

But what about everyone's favorite fascist MMO? (1)

zoips (576749) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855981)

Why does there not appear to be any work from TransGaming to support FFXI? Issues with SE itself, or just general lack of interest on the part of TransGaming? There seems to be enough interest in running FFXI on Cedega as indicated by the popularity rating on TransGaming's site, and I know I'd certainly buy a subscription if it meant I could play FFXI.

Re:But what about everyone's favorite fascist MMO? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856067)

Well, FFXI barely even runs in Windows. I mean, it crashes when you Alt-Tab. Or when you get an IM. Or bump the Windows key. Or there's an alert box. Guaranteed. I had to get a 3rd-party windower program just to make the thing stop crashing.

On the other hand, that's a pretty low bar to surpass in Linux.

Re:But what about everyone's favorite fascist MMO? (1)

FuzzyBad-Mofo (184327) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856588)

Probably because an inordinate number of subscribers are only interested in seeing 3D shooters like Counter-Strike 2 supported. That's one reason why I no longer have a WineX/Cedega subscription -- the other is that I simply have a waning interest in computer games.

Plug for my favorite old game ;P (1)

saur2004 (801688) | more than 9 years ago | (#11855991)

It just so happens that Descent 3 (both the game and the game servers) seem to run quite happilly under basic Wine. I run the three "Crypt" servers listed here [descent.cx] .

I'm a big fan of Wine.

Kiddie games something to consider (1, Interesting)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856069)

Another sector of the gaming market we seem to constantly ignore is kids' games. One of the things that might keep Joe Desktop from switching to Linux is that little Timmy's games won't work. Does Joe really want to have to run WineX or Cedega every time Timmy wants to play "Thomas the Tank Engine Goes to the Fair"? Probably not.

Too late, man (2, Funny)

Dolda2000 (759023) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856072)

We ran a story about a similar article back in February.
I think someone is trying to make up for all the dupes lately by showing the /. editors actually can remember a previous article once in a while.

Microsoft ads (1)

TorKlingberg (599697) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856225)

Hexus' site displays Microsoft ads when you hover over the words "Linux" or "open source".

Are there any adblocking tools for this kind of ads?

Re:Microsoft ads (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856269)

pretty tricky as that's all done with css :(

many of the floating ads use the same technique (ex. any article on about.com ) All these web devs will all burn in hell for their transgressions against the community.

Re:Microsoft ads (1)

megabyte405 (608258) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856481)

Yep. Those are inserted by a script. Adblock for FFX, then click "Adblock" in the lower right, and block the scripts (make sure to use * ) and refresh the page. You'll probably need to give which scripts you block you block a bit of thought, but I think you can probably figure it out.

Another boycott transgaming call (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856265)

If you want to play games then dual boot, the GNU/Linux community was built around sharing, and if companys don't like that then they can keep out, I do not want to see our community of sharing and helpfulness become dominated by companys that call you a pirate if you share and try to punish you for it.
After reading this http://www.transgaming.com/gavstates.php [transgaming.com] I will never again promote transgaming! Wine will soon be able to run WoW but if you want to play proprietry games then use windows...being anti-microsoft just because they are rich or something is stupid! Any company that would declare you a criminal for sharing with your friends or anyone can please stay out of the GNU/Linux community, if transgaming are more concerned with making money than with improving society then they should go and make windows software.

wierd setup (2, Insightful)

Yonkeltron (720465) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856316)

Most people i know have tried cegega and aren't impressed. they claim it's both tough to install and even harder to configure correctly.

i haven't tried cedega myself, but a simple apt-get install wine has worked perfectly on most systems i use.

Re:wierd setup (1)

joeljkp (254783) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856425)

On Gentoo, it's a simply 'emerge point2play' after you download the .tar.gz and copy it to the right directory.

It's available as a .deb and a .rpm for other distros, so I would guess it's a simple one-step process.

Pardon my ignorance but what is "fragging"? (2, Interesting)

World_Leader (635956) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856358)


To an old-timer like me "fragging" meant killing your squad leader (typically a lieutenant) in Vietnam usually either for getting someone busted for smoking pot (or similar), or insisting on going on dangerous patrols (which usually were pointless.)

But, hey, now KIA is a car brand but to me it still means "Killed In Action", not the most attractive name for a car.

Re:Pardon my ignorance but what is "fragging"? (1)

rekenner (849871) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856637)

Killing in general, normally in reference to First PErson Shooters

Cedega (1)

northcat (827059) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856362)

...took code from wine but gave only very little back. Like most companies.

Re:Cedega (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856612)

Hey, y'know what? That's the risk you take when you release your code under an open license.

Boo fucking hoo.

Well, I have to say... (4, Interesting)

SQLz (564901) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856515)

I played Max Payne 2 all the way through at 1280x1024 with almost all detail options on and it ran like a dream. Not a single crash, the FPS was great, and it felt native. In fact if I didn't know and saw someone playing it, I would have guessed it was native. I usually prefer native games but if WineX can deliever even a few top notch games that will never be ported to Linux (political/busines reasons), then I'd call it a success. I mean, if they can get 10 games to run like that on Linux, thats like a 100% increase in recent high quality games from the platform. (not counting old Loki stuff, its way to out of date)

I'm a gamer and I've used Linux exclusively for work since 1997 and have always booted into my Winetendo partition for games. Not having to do that to play a game as good as Max Payne 2 is great.

Those of you clamoring "native or nothing", good luck. There has been no significant rise in native ports for years. We get 1 or 2 big titles thats it. So, if WineX can deliver 1 or 2 more a year, thats fine with me.

Re:Well, I have to say... (1)

guardian653dave (865253) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856555)

Just a question, what were the specs of your machine to run that?

Dosbox (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856640)

Use dosbox for all the dos games and some of the older windows games out there. Works great!

Linux is the future of gaming ! (1)

neo2k.dk (833212) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856714)

World of Warcraft is possibly being ported to Linux, if it is true then Linux gets alot more focus which is a good thing. Cedega works neat with wow, i even emulated an open source server found here: http://www.wddg-online.org/ [wddg-online.org] i get excellent performance :)

linux console (2, Insightful)

dahlek (861921) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856924)

Too bad the Indrema (sp?) went nowhere...

If there was a gaming console based on linux tech (openGL, SDL, Linux the OS, etc), then games could be easily cross-ported to the linux PC I would think, a bit like XBOX and Windows...

I think that a linux console would be the single best way to slap the world and jump-start linux native gaming. To most ordinary folk, the OS running under the hood wouldn't matter - as a console, it would be: load the dvd, turn on...

No game here.... (2, Funny)

Primal_theory (859040) | more than 9 years ago | (#11856926)

luckily, linux users do have GAIM!

What about enemy territory? (0)

Anonymous Coward | more than 9 years ago | (#11856998)

I didn't see Enemy Territory listed. I just downloaded 1.1GB (2 CD's) of map files. Sure you can only get (a maximum) of 64 online players at a time (per server), but it's still a whole lotta bang bang shoot-em-up FPS action. Hmmm, enought /. Gotta Go!
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